Latest / Unstuck Pod / Intention is Not Enough (Nader Vasseghi and Jamie Schneiderman)
Transcript
- Jamie Schneiderman: Hi and welcome to the Unstuck Pod. very excited today to have Nader Veseghi joining us. And I'm gonna let him share a little bit more about his journey, which spans a wide range of different different types of organizations background and what he's doing right now. So Nader, welcome. Nader Vasseghi: Thanks very much for inviting me. It's a pleasure to be here. Jamie Schneiderman: This is great. So please go ahead, let everybody know more about you and and what you where you came from and and what you're doing now. Nader Vasseghi: Well, I let me start with now. I currently am focusing on executive coaching. So I work with founders and CEOs and executives. and I put a lot of focus on conscious leadership. In fact, my recent book that was published a couple of weeks ago is all about conscious creation. And I felt in this new age of AI. Is so important to understand what we are actually creating and and bring some consciousness behind the scene. But I personally started with technology background and started with in fact chip design and software and hardware and and then started into leadership roles, started a couple of startup companies. So I've been on both sides of large company environments, corporate environments, and also startup environments and scaled that as well. And you know, about 15 years ago I decided to focus my energy on leadership development, and that's what I do now, through lots of one-on-one conversations, through workshops, retreats. writing books, and also I enjoy music as well. So I do some recording there as also released a couple of albums on that. For me it's all the same thing is creation and expression. Jamie Schneiderman: What kind of music? Nader Vasseghi: Well it's I I call it journey music or or mm I would say new age. It's it's the stuff that sort of opens up your mind to creativity, to expansion and coming up with ideas or sort of again being more open to self expression. Jamie Schneiderman: So and I want to and I don't want to cut you off from your you sharing your background because I but I there's a thing that you said in here which I was fascinated by. You talk about conscious leadership and you're talking about being conscious about how about what you're creating, what you're developing, what you're doing. What do you mean by that? So I I think it's important to share that. What what does that mean? Nader Vasseghi: Yeah, I mean a lot of us you know, including myself, you know, we're not quite conscious about what we're doing out there, whether it is the way we communicate, whether it is the impact we're making on the outside world. Our intentions can be very different from the impact we're making out there. You know, and and I've seen that over and over. it's like, hey, my intention is good, but that's not enough. You know, what What that intention is coming out to the world can have a very different, 180 degrees different impact. So that's what that's one aspect of it. The other part of it is again, a lot of our decisions or actions, I call it compensatory acts of the ego. So we all carry some hidden insecurities, hidden traumas, hidden lacks, and we're trying to compensate that through the kind of things we do out there. So, you know, nothing wrong with that. It is what it is, but it's unconscious. It's it's basically what's driving us is our fears, is our lacks, and and again, it's that compensatory act of the ego. So one of the one of the key areas to move into a more conscious way of creating is being aware of that. And and in fact, Carl Jung has a very very insightful quote. and I don't exactly know the the det the specific words, but it's goes something like until we make the unconscious conscious, we we keep hitting our wall and we call it fate. You know, so th this concept of, you know, sometimes these hidden fears are driving us unconsciously and we don't even know about it. And and we and you know one of our biggest tasks is to bring some of those awareness into our conscious mind. Jamie Schneiderman: So okay, so it's fascinating. And obviously as you're describing, you say Carl Jung and and and you're you know we're we're we're delving into psychology obviously. but I'm curious in you know, when you talk about coaching, mentoring, supporting, like founders, CEOs and stuff, how tell me how this plays out, like situations that some of them are examples obviously without naming anybody, but I'm just trying to help me understand how you're helping somebody in that context because I do I Nader Vasseghi: Yeah. Jamie Schneiderman: think it's fascinating stuff. And I also think about someone going, I just need to go and drive we just need to drive growth. Like I don't have time. So Nader Vasseghi: Yeah, yeah. It's you know, it's each and every one is different, of course, right? But if I want to sort of bring some level of let's say model into it, I would say it it's two big buckets. One is mindset shifts, the other one is skill set developments, right? And they're kind of go together, but with every case is different. The mindset aspect is I I would say it's a lot more important because a lot of you know, a lot of us we have underlying beliefs and you know sort of th there are a lot of things that hold us back from what we can bring to the table you know, and live fully, both as a leader or as a person. There are there's self-limiting beliefs, there is ideas, thoughts, you know, bit behind the scene, as we talked about, some fear, some insecurity. So all of those are sort of stopping or holding us back from being the best that we can be. So there's a there is that aspect of mindset shifts. How do I first identify those and then you know you know unstock them, you know, sort of unfold them. So I put all of that stuff in the category of mindset shifts. and yes, you're right. A lot of that has to do with psychology, you know, in a sense, right? so that that's the mindset shift. The the skill sets again, it that's more known. That's more like, okay, strengthening my communication skills, my leadership skills, my strategic sort of thinking skills. So all of that. And they're both equally important, but I do, at least based on my experience, I do feel the mindset shift is the foundational. If you don't have that, no matter how much of a skill set you develop, you're still not quite there. So it has to be both. It's almost like two wings of a bird. You you need both of them to be able to soar. Jamie Schneiderman: I see. And and so when somebody reaches out to you and says, Hey, I need your help, do they think that they're getting the mindset shift part of things, or they think that they're getting the skill set or both, or they have no idea what they're getting and they just know that they just need help? How how what do you what do you see Nader Vasseghi: Yeah. Jamie Schneiderman: most of the time? Nader Vasseghi: Yeah, I mean again it's a it's a good mix. a lot of it has to do with how they come to me. There are cases where let's say the the investor sort of recommended them to seek out coaching. so they come to me and we d we sort of talk and we discover what are the areas that is holding the business and themselves back and then the journey starts there. There are other cases where the the leader or the founder or the CEO is already feeling something is not quite clicking, is like I don't, I need help. And they come and we have a conversation. And and a lot of that is is sort of unfolding what is happening inside. You know, in fact, in in the book, I talk about three aspects of leadership. The first one is leading from within. And I think that's foundational. That's basically the self-mastery Jamie Schneiderman: Mm-hmm. Nader Vasseghi: aspect of it, is really having a good understanding of what's going on inside. you know, the this the the driving factors, the the hidden motivations, you know, the the you know the the mindset that we just talked about. It's all inside this inner landscape. So I call that leading from within. And then the next aspect of it is leading with others. How do you connect? How do you lead? How do you bring the best out of people? All of that skill sets and the sense of connection with others and how do you create results through others, right? So that I call you know, leading with others. It's a relational leadership aspect of it. And then the third category is leading with impact. That's where the the strategy, the winning strategy comes in. You know, how do you actually create the desired outcome out there? So those are the three main aspects. one is more internal, the other one is more relational, and the third one is more creation aspect. And they all they go together, they have to sort of feed, feed into each other. Jamie Schneiderman: And so when you have interesting, right? So I I appreciate that people come to you with from a different there's different circumstances under which they come to you. And so when you're looking at also you know, the three components, right? Though the three components in terms of how you lead, how much like how much does the person define it. And I and you mentioned ego at the beginning. you know, founders, founders and leaders by their very nature tend to have, let's say, larger egos than some. There's more stubbornness than some. And that's natural and probably very positive for certain things. Maybe a little less natural and positive for everything else. So I'm just I'm trying to again, I I see The obviously the value. I'm curious about some of the interaction and I'm curious about how what it's like getting someone to a place where they go, like where that sort of the light bulb goes on for them when they're like, That must be interesting. Nader Vasseghi: Yeah. No, this is a a fantastic question. You know, first of all, n there's nothing wrong with ego. Ego is good as long as it's guided in the right direction. I mean, that's our that's our strength, our power, our our protection mechanism, even, right? so I think it just needs to be guided in the right direction. But I think one of the one of the key points here is when let's say a client comes to me, it's a co-creation model. It's really a partnership. It's together discovering what what is in the way, what what is holding them back, and what needs to happen for them to unfold and be the best that they can be. And that's truly a it's a spontaneous self-discovery, you know. Now, having said that, there are some assessments, there are some tools that I use to get a better sense on their personality and and what is holding them back, kind of thing. it could be you know, Enneagram, it could be disk, it could be if any even I created a a conscious leadership assessment as part of the framework of the book. That when when they go through that 15 minute assessment, I sort of get a sense on. Which area needs more attention? Is it the leading Jamie Schneiderman: Mm-hmm. Nader Vasseghi: from within aspect? Is it the leading with others aspect? Or is it leading with impact aspect? So it sort of gives a little bit of entry into our working relationship, you know. and these assessments help me to to get a sense on where they're at and and what areas need more attention in our work together. But it The most important aspect of it is a lot of that discovery happens in our conversation as we go through it. So it's really not a cookie cutter kind of you know, sort of prescription kind of model. It it really is a creative act. and and that's how the partnership really brings a lot of value here. Jamie Schneiderman: So I'm and I'm curious so I I I'm curious what you would say to somebody who says, Well, I've already been really successful. I've you know, I've built a business or multiple businesses, I've let's maybe I have lots of money, maybe whatever that is, whatever whatever they want to look at in terms of what success looks like. Why do I need a coach? Like or Nader Vasseghi: Yeah. Jamie Schneiderman: And I'm and I'm curious sort of how you not that you have to sell somebody on it, but I'm curious what your what how how you think about that when someone s make a Nader Vasseghi: Yeah, no, that's actually very good. First of all, I don't think everyone needs a coach. I mean, I the example sometimes I bring is that hey, if you want to go participate in Olympics, you you do need a coach and maybe multiple coaches. If your intention is not to go to Olympics, there's no need. There's nothing wrong with it. You know, it it's perfectly fine. There's no value judgment here, right? But if you decide to get a coach, then things will shift, things will change. You know, it it's in a sense, instead of a linear trajec trajectory, you're kind of taking a next leap. You're you're opening your mindset to new possibilities. And that's what a good coach can do for you. It can actually detect what's holding you back. It can sort of tell you it can sort of support you, open the space for you to bring the best of yourself to the table. And and again, a lot of us unfortunately don't have don't get that opportunity because we we're we've been living in a an environment where there's a lot of negativity, there's a lot of practical sort of aspect, you know, I can't even do that. There, you know, it sort of shots the possibilities, you know? So that creative child within gets sort of quieted, quiet down. So Again, with the help of a coach, you can actually bring that out again. You can express yourself, you can create, you can get fulfillment. And again, everyone is different. I mean, as you mentioned, some of the some of the clients that come to me, they're extremely successful. Their the the initial conversation with me is not about, hey, I want to generate more success or more money. I guess it depends on how you define success, right? So here we're saying, let's say money. So The conversation is not about, hey, I I want to make more money. The conversation is, hey, I don't get much joy in my life. I don't have a sense of fulfillment. You know, Jamie Schneiderman: Mm. Nader Vasseghi: I I don't need more money, but I need more richness of life. I need more joy. How can I do that? You know, that kind of a thing. and there are people who come in and say, Hey, I I'm struggling with this business, you know, I I really need to make money. So in fact, my my first book was Called Path to Freedom, leading a life of joy, impact, and abundance. And I think these three are the key words. They come together. Whatever you do, you need to have a sense of joy. You need to have a sense that you're making an impact, you're making a positive difference. And you want to get a feel that there is abundance. You know, it's it's and abundance is not just money, is it's just richness Jamie Schneiderman: Mm-hmm. Nader Vasseghi: of life, right? So joy, impact, and abundance needs to happen. It's almost like a three-legged stool where if one leg is weak or short, the whole structure is unstable. So that's another thing. It's like I I look at each of my clients into okay, what are the areas that needs more more strengthening? Is it the joy aspect? Is it the impact aspect? Is it the abundance aspect? Each one is different, you know, it's it's very different. But Again, I encourage my clients to have these three things in their mind because every major decision needs to satisfy all three together. It has to be harmonious. Jamie Schneiderman: Are are your are your clients do they do they tend to skew older? And I'm and what I mean is when I say older, and by the way, I would put myself in that category when I say older. I I'm saying people who have significant life experience, right? the order of magnitude of at least, you know, 15 or 20 years, call it. Nader Vasseghi: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. Jamie Schneiderman: post school is the best definition I would put versus those who are earlier. And I'm I'm asking you because I you know I'm sure I'm sure the approach would work either way. The question I've got is whether the clients Nader Vasseghi: Yeah. Jamie Schneiderman: would see the world the same way. Nader Vasseghi: Yeah, no, that's a very good point because it's a process and it's a journey, right? I do have clients from both the younger generation and you know older generation, Jamie Schneiderman: Mm-hmm. Nader Vasseghi: but their problems to some extent is a little different, right? Typically the younger generation are you know, most most of them first-time founders and CEOs. So so they're kind of they want to sort of Be the best that they can be in that capacity. You know, I'm I'm I'm starting a company, I've got people reporting to me, I've got investors counting on me. I want to be successful, I want to bring it on, right? So so those are a set of problems there. But then I also have very experienced CEOs, very successful CEOs, where our our focus in work is how to be more conscious, how to be more responsible, how to bring more fulfillment to themselves and to their employees, you know, have a healthy culture and make a make a difference in their community. So it it's very it's somewhat different, but it's all under the wing of conscious leadership. Jamie Schneiderman: Yeah, no, no. I I and and I can I mean I can see look, I can see and I understand. It's like it makes it makes so much sense. okay, so so outside of reading your book or books, which which we'll we'll add into the description after, right, so we'll put some notes in there, but but what advice would you give to to to leaders today? So I'd like to know two things, right? One one is what advice would you give them just in general, right? About how to do what you do what they do better and how to be more of a con call it a conscious leader. And the second Nader Vasseghi: Mm-hmm. Jamie Schneiderman: one is if they are looking for a coach, how to think about what should I be looking for? How to how how would I think about that? Nader Vasseghi: Mm-hmm. Yeah, so I think the let's start with the some some high level recommendations. And I think as I alluded before, the very first one is to find a way to raise their level of awareness. and what I mean by that is everything we do, whether we're conscious or not, it's creating something out there. Jamie Schneiderman: Uh-huh. Nader Vasseghi: it is is creating our relationships, it is creating results, is creating ourselves within, even. So just having that awareness that everything that I do or say is making a difference, you know? And and this understanding that my intention alone is not enough. I need to close the loop with what is that intention is creating outside. so you know, it and especially this comes true with respect to other people where you say something, they make their own assumptions, and it may be very different from your your original intention, right? So again, Jamie Schneiderman: yeah. Nader Vasseghi: that awareness, that being present is really important. So again, if I if I had to say one little things is is that is raising awareness. Raising awareness to what we say or what we do, and making sure that you take ownership to the whole circle of intention plus impact, not just intention alone. What what what the the impact of what I just said, right? Or impact of this decision that I made. so that awareness is really I would say half the half the solution. And and I think the second question was Jamie Schneiderman: around picking a if a coach, if you're thinking about that. Nader Vasseghi: yeah, coach. So I think so again, personally, I think the most important thing is the relationship between the the two people that work together. a coach might be a great coach, but may not be a great coach for this particular person. So that resonance needs to happen. And I encourage people who are looking for coaches to have an initial conversation and truly get into the depth of it, having an authentic conversation. And and see deep down they they need to feel like, this is the one I want to work with. You know, so not just go with the with the description or the achievements or whatever. It's like, no, no, I want to have a a personal experience of how can I work with this coach and and do I feel that sense of resonance that yes, he or she is the one for me. Jamie Schneiderman: Great. no, no, it's terrific. so so quo so colon, so if someone wants to get hold of you, how what's the best way for them to get hold of you, to reach you, to find you? Nader Vasseghi: Yeah, I I would say the website would be a a great start. synergist. It's C N E R G I S T C N-E-R-G-I-S-T dot com. And there they can get exposure to my background, my services, my books. So that's a really good entry into all of that. And Jamie Schneiderman: Okay. Nader Vasseghi: and in fact, I have The the assessment that I mentioned to you, it's there too. They can take it. It's a complementary assessment. Jamie Schneiderman: Okay, great. No, no, it's good. And we'll we'll add links in the description and people can find it that way and that would be that would be awesome. Nader, thank you so much. This is really great. really, really helpful, insightful. I took a bunch of notes too. So it y it was helpful for me as well. So this is great. Nader Vasseghi: It it was a real pleasure. Thank you so much. It was it was a pleasure. Jamie Schneiderman: Thank you. And everyb everybody watching and listening, thank you and until next time.