Latest / The Psychology of Relationships / Navigating a Pace Discrepancy: When One Person Is Ready for The Next Step & The Other Isn’t w/ Dr. Alexandra Solomon

Transcript

Navigating a Pace Discrepancy: When One Person Is Ready for The Next Step & The Other Isn’t w/ Dr. Alexandra Solomon · The Psychology of Relationships

• 0:00
  [SPEAKER_02]: I'm Julie Craftscheck, and I'm UASU.
• 0:03
  [SPEAKER_02]: This is the Psychology of Relationships.
• 0:19
  [SPEAKER_03]: What happens when you're ready for the next step in your partner isn't?
• 0:24
  [SPEAKER_03]: Paced discrepancies are one of the most confusing and emotionally triggering parts of relationships.
• 0:30
  [SPEAKER_03]: Whether it's defining the relationship, moving in together, getting engaged, or just figuring out if you're on the save long-term path.
• 0:38
  [SPEAKER_03]: mismatch timing can make you question everything.
• 0:41
  [SPEAKER_03]: Paced discrepancies can stir up fair insecurity and miscommunication.
• 0:46
  [SPEAKER_03]: That's because we don't experience these moments neutrally.
• 0:49
  [SPEAKER_03]: we make inferences based on our paths.
• 0:52
  [SPEAKER_03]: If they're not ready, does that mean they're unsure about me?
• 0:55
  [SPEAKER_03]: If I want to move faster, am I being too much?
• 0:58
  [SPEAKER_03]: If I want to slow down, am I sabotaging my relationship?
• 1:02
  [SPEAKER_03]: That's because psychologically, we don't just see these moments for what they are.
• 1:06
  [SPEAKER_03]: We make meaning out of them.
• 1:08
  [SPEAKER_03]: Psychologically, these moments tap into attachment, self-worth, and our internalized beliefs about love and rejection.
• 1:15
  [SPEAKER_03]: Our past experiences, attachment patterns, and schemas can shape the inferences we make in these moments.
• 1:22
  [SPEAKER_03]: And often also contribute to why there's a pace to
• 1:30
  [SPEAKER_03]: Clinical psychologist, bestselling author and creator of Marriage 101, officially titled Building Love in Lasting Relationships, the most popular course at Northwestern University.
• 1:43
  [SPEAKER_03]: Her work bridges psychology and real life relationship challenges, helping people build what she calls relational self-awareness.
• 1:51
  [SPEAKER_03]: She's also the host of the podcast Reimagined Love and author of Loving Bravely, taking sexy back and love every day.
• 1:59
  [SPEAKER_03]: In this episode, we dive into what's really happening beneath a pacemist match.
• 2:04
  [SPEAKER_03]: How to communicate your needs without issuing an ultimatum and when to move forward or walk away.
• 2:10
  [SPEAKER_03]: In on a little personal note, this episode was actually recorded before my now husband and I moved in together.
• 2:17
  [SPEAKER_03]: So if you're in the thick of a paste discrepancy, let this be proof that with the right communication and tools you can move through it together.
• 2:25
  [SPEAKER_03]: Remember to go to apple podcast, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcast.
• 2:30
  [SPEAKER_03]: and leave us a rating and review, and better yet a comment about what you learned from this episode.
• 2:36
  [SPEAKER_03]: This is the psychology of relationships and you're listening to an episode that might just change the way you show up for love.
• 2:50
  [SPEAKER_02]: This idea of paste discrepancy, where both partners are not on the same page, when it comes to timelines, adds a relationship progresses or not.
• 3:01
  [SPEAKER_02]: I know Julie, this is something that's very recent for you.
• 3:04
  [SPEAKER_02]: So let's start with how Dr. Alexander has really helped you through this.
• 3:08
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I mean, I obviously do Dr. Alexander Solved for this podcast, but when I was in the thick of this situation, when I was a little more ready than my partner,
• 3:19
  [SPEAKER_03]: where we wanted to go, but I was a little faster in wanting to get there.
• 3:24
  [SPEAKER_03]: I actually found your podcast, well, a specific episode on what you call pace discrepancy.
• 3:30
  [SPEAKER_03]: And I loved the way you frame that too, because I think, like, so often we run to, like, oh, like, are they just not going to be the partner for me, or they're not into me, like, there's something wrong if I'm too fast, there's something wrong if I'm too slow, and you really helps like normalize this.
• 3:47
  [SPEAKER_03]: How did you kind of get there?
• 3:49
  [SPEAKER_03]: Like, what made you call up this and like even have an interest in this topic in the first place?
• 3:54
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm really glad that we're talking about pastes, guppensies today.
• 3:57
  [SPEAKER_01]: I think that it's one of the most important podcasts episodes that we've done so far for exactly the reason that you're outlined really is, first of all, it's incredibly common.
• 4:06
  [SPEAKER_01]: The chances that two people are going to arrive at the next commitment milestone at the exact same moment are slim to none.
• 4:14
  [SPEAKER_01]: Depending on the milestone, one partner, maybe the accelerator, one partner, maybe the break, but it's not too hard to figure out which one has their foot on the accelerator, which one has their foot on the break, and there's pain in both of those positionalities.
• 4:27
  [SPEAKER_01]: Neither position is particularly easy, so even just in the
• 4:30
  [SPEAKER_01]: framing of calling it a paste discrepancy.
• 4:33
  [SPEAKER_01]: In doing that, I really wanted to move people out of the stance that it's so easy to slip into, which is either blame or shame.
• 4:41
  [SPEAKER_01]: Some things wrong with you, because you're so eager to move in together, or something is wrong with you, because you don't want to move in together.
• 4:48
  [SPEAKER_01]: You aren't ready yet to move in together.
• 4:50
  [SPEAKER_01]: And we now, I think we are living a loving and an interesting time where we have
• 4:53
  [SPEAKER_01]: a lot of vocabulary available to us, so now we can get into things like you have a void of attachment disorder, you have an anxious attachment disorder, you have a this, you have a this, and so it's very easy to get into these kind of individual pathologizing stances, frankly.
• 5:07
  [SPEAKER_01]: And so by calling in a paste discrepancy, what I'm doing is I'm saying this is a couple problems, a relationship problem, and that invites a couple right away into a really different stance, these of the what's happening.
• 5:19
  [SPEAKER_01]: And I think that's really what you're speaking to as that
• 5:23
  [SPEAKER_01]: You ended the struggle of trying to figure out who was causing the problem.
• 5:28
  [SPEAKER_01]: Exactly.
• 5:29
  [SPEAKER_02]: It takes an ego out of it because I think when it comes to old school, thinking of paste discrepancy, it's like the person who's moving fast or must like
• 5:38
  [SPEAKER_02]: the other person more.
• 5:40
  [SPEAKER_02]: Right, you know, they must be more in love.
• 5:42
  [SPEAKER_02]: And that's not really the case what you're saying here is just it's natural for two different people to be on two different timelines.
• 5:49
  [SPEAKER_02]: But how do you know that it's truly a paste discrepancy issue versus YouTube just not being on the same page?
• 5:54
  [SPEAKER_01]: Right, I would not want to take that hypothesis off the table, right?
• 5:59
  [SPEAKER_01]: There probably are timelines where the gap is just too far, or issues where one really does not want with the other ones, right?
• 6:08
  [SPEAKER_01]: I don't ever want to have a baby.
• 6:10
  [SPEAKER_01]: I don't, you know, I think there are times when couples have different long-term goals or different time horizons.
• 6:16
  [SPEAKER_01]: They require too much compromise.
• 6:18
  [SPEAKER_01]: Mm-hmm.
• 6:18
  [SPEAKER_01]: They require too much abandonment of self in a way that's going to fuel resentment, right?
• 6:24
  [SPEAKER_01]: Each partner is likely better suited with somebody who shares a similar alignment.
• 6:29
  [SPEAKER_01]: But I'm curious, Julie, for you how you and your partner tease that apart, are we just different paces or do we have different goals?
• 6:36
  [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, I would say it wasn't like a totally easy process.
• 6:40
  [SPEAKER_03]: It wasn't so black and white that we knew 100%.
• 6:42
  [SPEAKER_03]: I think ultimately, we at least knew that we wanted to get to the same place.
• 6:47
  [SPEAKER_03]: Like, we both wanted marriage, for instance.
• 6:49
  [SPEAKER_03]: We wanted these next steps.
• 6:51
  [SPEAKER_03]: It was more like, I think if someone was like, I outright don't want this, it'd be a little more clear.
• 6:56
  [SPEAKER_03]: That being said, like the question came up a lot for like, and I think this is the problem with when there's a pace to scrub and see,
• 7:03
  [SPEAKER_03]: I just feel like when I thought about relationships, like when I got into one, everything would magically just work out.
• 7:09
  [SPEAKER_03]: Like we would move.
• 7:10
  [SPEAKER_03]: So the next step, like, all my problems of being solved, like the issue is getting into a relationship.
• 7:16
  [SPEAKER_03]: That was like what I thought.
• 7:17
  [SPEAKER_03]: So there was definitely a lot that I took very personally.
• 7:21
  [SPEAKER_03]: So it went to, do they just not want to be with me?
• 7:24
  [SPEAKER_03]: Like I know this person wants to get married.
• 7:26
  [SPEAKER_03]: but is it that they don't want to with me?
• 7:28
  [SPEAKER_03]: And I think I learned, I mean, we ended up doing couples therapy and I want to get your take on that too of like, are there ways to solve this on your own?
• 7:36
  [SPEAKER_03]: There had to be a leap of faith for both of us a little too.
• 7:39
  [SPEAKER_03]: And eventually, like, we got to that place and I think I could see the progress being made in terms and we broke down a lot too of like what it was that was the true issue.
• 7:49
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
• 7:50
  [SPEAKER_01]: So often couples get locked into a pretty simplistic formulation of you're putting too much pressure on me.
• 7:57
  [SPEAKER_01]: Well, your commitment phobic, you know, I think they get that kind of like very simplistic storyline and what's so important is to get underneath it.
• 8:04
  [SPEAKER_01]: And for the person who has their foot on the accelerator, who's more ready for the next step for that person to really identify the fears.
• 8:11
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm afraid.
• 8:12
  [SPEAKER_01]: And I think oftentimes when the person with the foot on the accelerator is a woman or somebody who's been socialized in the feminine or somebody with frankly with a uterus.
• 8:18
  [SPEAKER_01]: part of the fear is I'm wasting my dreams that I have a, you know, I don't have limitless.
• 8:23
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, sure, time.
• 8:24
  [SPEAKER_01]: And so if having biological children is a goal, I think just in general, there is for women a fear of wasting time of being strong along.
• 8:34
  [SPEAKER_01]: And so I think kind of naming some of those fears.
• 8:37
  [SPEAKER_01]: And for you, it sounds like it was also a fear of
• 8:39
  [SPEAKER_01]: I can't tell if you aren't ready for the step or if you aren't sure about me, and so there's that deep vulnerability around how personally to take this.
• 8:48
  [SPEAKER_01]: And then on the other side for the person with their foot on the break, again, eliciting a deeper conversation about those fears and very often especially the person with their foot on the break is a man or somebody who's been socialized in the masculine.
• 9:00
  [SPEAKER_01]: Very often it's a story that he has internalized about.
• 9:03
  [SPEAKER_01]: I can't take on this commitment.
• 9:05
  [SPEAKER_01]: I can't become responsible for you as if that's even what she's asking for.
• 9:08
  [SPEAKER_01]: Until I've reached this point in my career, or this financial milestone, so they're often our things that are about self, self-concept, self in the world that really have a little to nothing to do with their partner.
• 9:18
  [SPEAKER_01]: They have an impact on the partner, but they say a lot about how I feel about myself in the world and those are stories that often times have begun long before the relationship.
• 9:29
  [SPEAKER_01]: We're exists sort of separate in a part from the relationship.
• 9:31
  [SPEAKER_03]: Well, I think that's what really came to light is like so much of it was carrying from our own, even like the taking it personally.
• 9:38
  [SPEAKER_03]: There were times that their business was like, I'm not hearing what you're hearing, like you're, you know, it's heritalyzing this.
• 9:44
  [SPEAKER_03]: And I think there's a lot of that, especially if you've been dating for a while, you've had the relationships that don't work out.
• 9:49
  [SPEAKER_03]: It's easy to go there again.
• 9:50
  [SPEAKER_03]: Like, oh, this is happening again.
• 9:53
  [SPEAKER_03]: So I think there is a lot of that piece like I guess a question for you is like do you think that in like the real early stages let's say like we're starting to date one person doesn't want to define the relationship yet like they're not ready.
• 10:08
  [SPEAKER_03]: Do you think a piece discrepancy can even happen then or is this something more that's like later on when things get more serious.
• 10:16
  [SPEAKER_01]: for sure.
• 10:16
  [SPEAKER_01]: I think that's actually quite a common time for a paste discrepancy to occur.
• 10:20
  [SPEAKER_01]: I think that we probably have some amount of individual difference between each and every one of us around how much ambiguity we can tolerate.
• 10:28
  [SPEAKER_01]: You know, some of us need to like know by 11 a.m. what we're having for dinner.
• 10:31
  [SPEAKER_01]: You know, and all these of us are like, I don't know.
• 10:33
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'll figure it out as I go along.
• 10:34
  [SPEAKER_01]: I think there's some like sort of preset level of how much ambiguity.
• 10:38
  [SPEAKER_01]: one can tolerate.
• 10:40
  [SPEAKER_01]: And so I think that that's part of what dictates the point at which I need to understand what you and I are doing.
• 10:46
  [SPEAKER_01]: Versus the point at which you need to understand what you and I are doing.
• 10:49
  [SPEAKER_01]: And I may be really comfortable hanging out in the gray because I'm just not that troubled by it.
• 10:53
  [SPEAKER_01]: Like I feel pretty sure I'm going to see you.
• 10:55
  [SPEAKER_01]: I feel pretty sure I like you.
• 10:57
  [SPEAKER_01]: I feel pretty sure you like me.
• 10:58
  [SPEAKER_01]: So I don't need a lot of conversation because I'm not that troubled by it.
• 11:01
  [SPEAKER_01]: where for somebody else, if they have a high value on a need for clarity, from wherever in their life story that need comes, to tolerate ambiguity is to abandon oneself.
• 11:12
  [SPEAKER_01]: That's what it feels like, if I'm just hanging out in this room, although it feels quite personal, I think there's even at that early state of defining the relationship, I think that people have different needs for clarity and getting explicit.
• 11:24
  [SPEAKER_01]: Tell me what you guys think about that.
• 11:25
  [SPEAKER_03]: I agree with you.
• 11:26
  [SPEAKER_03]: I think it's hard though because like I'm just even thinking about my situation.
• 11:30
  [SPEAKER_03]: We had, you know, years up to this, like time that we really got to do each other.
• 11:34
  [SPEAKER_03]: I think if you've only been on like a couple of dates with someone or like a month in, you're not going to be going a couple's therapy of like working it out.
• 11:41
  [SPEAKER_03]: And I feel like people are just making the assumption like, oh, this person was that into me.
• 11:45
  [SPEAKER_03]: If they wanted to, they would.
• 11:47
  [SPEAKER_03]: Like all those like buzzwords of just they're going to step up where we don't know their backgrounds.
• 11:52
  [SPEAKER_03]: We don't know their past relationship history or the way they were raised or anything about them.
• 11:57
  [SPEAKER_03]: So I think that's why so many early stage connections just die out because like we don't actually like have these conversations because it feels easier just to leave at that point.
• 12:08
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
• 12:08
  [SPEAKER_02]: The vulnerability.
• 12:09
  [SPEAKER_02]: I think the internal struggle I have in early dating is that instead of addressing it with the person I'm dating.
• 12:15
  [SPEAKER_02]: I'm addressing it internally like why can't I be okay in the gray area.
• 12:20
  [SPEAKER_02]: Why can't I be okay with ambiguity.
• 12:22
  [SPEAKER_02]: Why do I need to move things so fast.
• 12:25
  [SPEAKER_02]: I'm constantly trying to figure out a way to redefine my own needs, but one hearing from you is that's really sacrificing myself in order to morph myself into whatever the situation ship is, but it's better to just address it with the person dating even if it's just early dating.
• 12:41
  [SPEAKER_01]: I think so, because to raise the conversation is not to apply a full-force pressure campaign, right?
• 12:48
  [SPEAKER_01]: I think that's where people get tripped up, right?
• 12:50
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's like if I ask you for a check-in about how you're feeling about this or could we make some space to talk about how we're each feeling about this, that feels tantamount to saying, you know, gunned your head and the one or not the one.
• 13:03
  [SPEAKER_01]: That's not the same thing.
• 13:04
  [SPEAKER_01]: There's a world of difference between asking a question that's a check-in and applying a pressure campaign.
• 13:10
  [SPEAKER_01]: But I think we don't trust ourselves because we feel so anxious in the inside.
• 13:14
  [SPEAKER_01]: And I think that we don't trust
• 13:16
  [SPEAKER_01]: that the other person's going to hear it, that way.
• 13:18
  [SPEAKER_01]: And of course, we can never be in charge of how somebody hears something, right?
• 13:22
  [SPEAKER_01]: The best we can do is to kind of regulate ourselves, trust ourselves, be as open and curious to, you know, asking open-ended questions, and then really like it's the other person's job.
• 13:33
  [SPEAKER_01]: To hear the words that we're saying not fill on all the spaces with their assumptions and their fears I mean right Julia's why you're point about like it sure would be better just though the couples there Possibly because couples therapist helps you guys like, but yeah, you probably aren't gonna go to couples therapy on date three and yet like I love the chance
• 13:48
  [SPEAKER_03]: in your check-in that you talked about.
• 13:51
  [SPEAKER_03]: I actually referenced this on a recent episode as well.
• 13:54
  [SPEAKER_03]: Like that we were doing that even before couples therapy is just a way to just, you know, the one about like, what's going well, what's not, what's a relational growing edge, what's a hot day.
• 14:04
  [SPEAKER_03]: I love that.
• 14:05
  [SPEAKER_03]: And then the intention, but I feel like an early stage day day that I would never do that.
• 14:10
  [SPEAKER_03]: Even honestly I'll be completely honest.
• 14:13
  [SPEAKER_03]: I would be, before I got it to a serious relationship, and before I was embedded in this community of really diggy and to relationships, I always was like, why do people need check-in?
• 14:23
  [SPEAKER_03]: So it seems not necessary.
• 14:25
  [SPEAKER_03]: And now I get it, but as an early stage data, how would you actually approach that convo if it's not like a check-in?
• 14:32
  [SPEAKER_03]: How would you be, are we on the same page?
• 14:35
  [SPEAKER_03]: Where are we, how do you have that convo?
• 14:38
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
• 14:38
  [SPEAKER_01]: not so formal.
• 14:39
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, you and I'm curious, you're thoughts on this one too.
• 14:42
  [SPEAKER_01]: But I agree that the not so formal, like it doesn't need to be like, I have something very important to ask you.
• 14:49
  [SPEAKER_01]: I love the idea.
• 14:51
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm so into conversations happening while bodies are moving.
• 14:55
  [SPEAKER_01]: Like, while we're on a walk, while we're on a hike, there's something that is so permission-giving.
• 15:01
  [SPEAKER_01]: First of all, we're not steering each other down.
• 15:03
  [SPEAKER_01]: We're kind of side-by-side.
• 15:05
  [SPEAKER_01]: you know, we're moving in the same direction, we're looking at sort of similar things, our bodies are moving, so it's like the opposite of feeling kind of stuck and heavy, like we're moving.
• 15:14
  [SPEAKER_01]: So I like that idea, and I like the idea of starting with a little baby vulnerable disclosure, like I have so much fun with you.
• 15:22
  [SPEAKER_01]: I really enjoyed these like last few weeks together.
• 15:25
  [SPEAKER_01]: I've enjoyed the time we're spending together.
• 15:26
  [SPEAKER_01]: I would love to just hear how you're doing, how you're feeling about this.
• 15:31
  [SPEAKER_01]: With that send you to the hills,
• 15:33
  [SPEAKER_02]: That sounds lovely, but if I'm asking that question deep down inside, I'm a ball of anxiety.
• 15:40
  [SPEAKER_02]: Trying to express myself, what I'm really trying to say is, I want to move this forward.
• 15:46
  [SPEAKER_02]: I want to DTR or I want this to be monotle.
• 15:49
  [SPEAKER_02]: Whatever that next stage is, but I'm couching it in a much more casual conversation.
• 15:54
  [SPEAKER_02]: So how do I do this in a casual way, but also express my needs at the same time?
• 15:59
  [SPEAKER_01]: You're proposing something.
• 16:01
  [SPEAKER_01]: right yes you're putting a proposal out there you're saying I want to let you know this is something that I'm ready for or curious about I want to see where you're at with it if the response that you got back was I hope that any response you get back is compassionate because I would want somebody to be really compassionate with you for the kind of courage it takes to bring this up.
• 16:21
  [SPEAKER_01]: Right, so even if that person isn't ready, I would hope that they would be kind enough and compassionate to be like I'm so glad you're bringing us up like what a compliment to me that somehow you feel safe enough with me to bring something up like this actually is such a deep sign of respect that you must feel some measure of safety with me
• 16:39
  [SPEAKER_01]: that you can bring up a conversation like this.
• 16:41
  [SPEAKER_01]: So I would hope that even if that person isn't ready for monogamy or isn't ready to define their relationship, I would hope they could at least see and have respect for the courage that you have in bringing it up.
• 16:52
  [SPEAKER_01]: That their response then, I could imagine that a compassionate response, even if it includes the answer you don't want, which is like, I still don't feel quite ready.
• 17:01
  [SPEAKER_01]: That at least the compassionate response, or like the process of how the conversation goes,
• 17:05
  [SPEAKER_01]: maybe helps soften the disappointment, you know?
• 17:08
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I think for me, I wouldn't have a problem telling someone where I was at or even like I love the, we've talked about this before too, like the ease in of just, I'm having a really great time with you, like how is that gonna be taken bad?
• 17:19
  [SPEAKER_03]: Like that's a great way to have that conversation.
• 17:21
  [SPEAKER_03]: The problem for me would be like if the person didn't give me a yes or no Like I think it goes back to this like ambiguity and being comfortable there If they were like I really am enjoying my time with you, but I'm not ready quite yet Like I feel like I need more time or whatever they say or eventually I want to get there But I'm not there yet.
• 17:41
  [SPEAKER_03]: How do you handle that?
• 17:42
  [SPEAKER_03]: Like, how do you know how much time to give the person?
• 17:46
  [SPEAKER_03]: And this is something that I think goes for all stages of relationship, not just the early ones.
• 17:50
  [SPEAKER_03]: It's something I struggle with too.
• 17:51
  [SPEAKER_03]: It's like, there has to be a time limit eventually.
• 17:55
  [SPEAKER_03]: You're not gonna wait forever.
• 17:57
  [SPEAKER_03]: But how do you do that in a way that's not like an ultimatum or you're not like throwing the towel too soon and letting the person get there?
• 18:05
  [SPEAKER_01]: First of all, I think that would be disappointing to hear back, right?
• 18:08
  [SPEAKER_01]: And there's no way, I think in our example with UA, UA would go from being the bundle of anxiety to feeling pretty disappointed, you know, because that wouldn't be, I mean, that wouldn't be what she would want to be hearing back.
• 18:20
  [SPEAKER_01]: And so this may take a couple of conversations, but that might be like the outer edge of how much UA can tolerate in that conversation, so she might kind of like,
• 18:28
  [SPEAKER_01]: step back or shut down a little bit or say, like, okay, look, maybe pick this up again because I, you know, I'm feeling a little bit overwhelmed.
• 18:35
  [SPEAKER_01]: But then in the next conversation, I wonder about talking about like, what would be each be doing and feeling that would indicate to you that you are ready, like sort of painting a picture of what are your
• 18:46
  [SPEAKER_01]: Markers either inside of yourself or in our relationship that tell you that you are ready for something like that because we may not have the same Markers, but it would be really helpful for me to know not so that I can like magically transform myself into somebody who pleases you not about that But just about like what's your vision of what that process looks like for you?
• 19:05
  [SPEAKER_02]: I like that basically set me up for a success here.
• 19:08
  [SPEAKER_02]: We'll set each other up for success
• 19:10
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
• 19:10
  [SPEAKER_02]: And we can kind of without guessing really understand each other.
• 19:14
  [SPEAKER_02]: It's a getting to know each other process.
• 19:17
  [SPEAKER_02]: So I really like that.
• 19:17
  [SPEAKER_02]: I'm putting myself in this person's shoes being disappointed but asking this question kind of like, how can we work towards that together?
• 19:25
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
• 19:25
  [SPEAKER_02]: I've been in relationships where I feel like we overworked it.
• 19:31
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, we worked on it so much that the romance was gone.
• 19:35
  [SPEAKER_02]: It was purely just about working on the relationship.
• 19:38
  [SPEAKER_02]: How do you strike the balance of we're working towards a goal?
• 19:41
  [SPEAKER_02]: Uh-huh.
• 19:41
  [SPEAKER_02]: But also keeping this as a romantic, fun relationship.
• 19:46
  [SPEAKER_01]: right because so much of this like I think you know right now we're kind of doing like a tap-down like creating the vision for what this would look like but what you're reminding us you a is there's also like a bottom up like part of how you get ready for commitment is you just build a steady cushion of repeated fun, positive, pleasurable experiences together.
• 20:06
  [SPEAKER_01]: So you're right that a couple can tap down their way into something that feels like really
• 20:15
  [SPEAKER_01]: and they need to balance that against like a little bit of conversation or check in and then more experience together.
• 20:21
  [SPEAKER_01]: And there's a way in which if that's what somebody needs, if I'm slow to warm up because I have a trauma history or my last partner cheated on me or that's just how God made me.
• 20:32
  [SPEAKER_01]: Then just a little like I don't open up super easily.
• 20:35
  [SPEAKER_01]: Then more talking about it isn't going to be helpful.
• 20:38
  [SPEAKER_01]: What's going to help me is there's this like X axis of time.
• 20:42
  [SPEAKER_01]: that I just need, that I can't make that timeline go fashion because I just need to have repeated experiences of feeling safe in your presence, of having my body feel relaxed near your body, like I'm just going to need more of those experiences.
• 20:57
  [SPEAKER_01]: then perhaps you do it because you are a more trusting soul, you don't have quite the same painful history that I have, et cetera, et cetera.
• 21:05
  [SPEAKER_01]: So I think that that's a really good point though around like some of this you can't talk your way into a faster timeline if what somebody needs is just a bit more experience.
• 21:16
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I mean, even like when we were going through this, like there was a time box that we put it aside, like from the therapist, because like I think for that reason, like if you're just talking about the same thing every week, it's hard to like feel the joys of a relationship.
• 21:30
  [SPEAKER_03]: That being said, it was very difficult if you're the one that wants something, it's really hard to be like, we're just gonna forget about this.
• 21:38
  [SPEAKER_03]: It just live life and pretend like it's not an issue.
• 21:41
  [SPEAKER_03]: So how do you balance the two?
• 21:45
  [SPEAKER_03]: if let's say a therapist isn't in your routine or you just feel like for whatever reason it doesn't feel right for you.
• 21:53
  [SPEAKER_01]: I think putting it in a box is a really good idea and there's a question that I love that I'm sure I talked about in the past discrepancy episode and the question is what can the two of us do to protect the rest of what's great about this relationship from the strain of this past discrepancy?
• 22:08
  [SPEAKER_01]: And love that question because in asking and posing the question, you are reminding yourself in your partner that you are more than this one problem you're dealing with.
• 22:19
  [SPEAKER_01]: I use a question like that all the time with my couples.
• 22:22
  [SPEAKER_01]: What can the two of you do to protect the rest of your relationship from, even the impact of this infidelity?
• 22:27
  [SPEAKER_01]: When a couple is trying to recover from infidelity, we sit with that question because it's like there is actually more to you.
• 22:33
  [SPEAKER_01]: than the infidelity that you are trying to repair from.
• 22:36
  [SPEAKER_01]: There is more to your story than that.
• 22:38
  [SPEAKER_01]: So I think that a couple of the pastes grew up and see, you're right, the more, you know, what we focus on tends to grow.
• 22:45
  [SPEAKER_01]: And so the more we talk about this pastes' property, like now it has a capital P, and a capital D, and it takes up all of this space, and we're watching our clocks, and you know, I'm looking at you, are you ready?
• 22:56
  [SPEAKER_01]: And you're looking at me like, are you chilling out?
• 22:58
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and you're not just like humans.
• 22:59
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's like it's just like no one's having fun anymore, so it's I like that question of like if we're going to take it off the table for a time first of all agreeing when we are going to get back on the table So knowing that there's a check in I think is really helpful, especially for the tolerator partner and then because you know as Aristotle says nature of whores of vacuum like
• 23:20
  [SPEAKER_01]: filling in that time.
• 23:21
  [SPEAKER_01]: What are we filling in with while we're filling in with this dance class that we love and we're filling in with this trip we're planning to London and we're filling in with going to the gym together.
• 23:30
  [SPEAKER_01]: We're filling in with this cooking experience.
• 23:32
  [SPEAKER_01]: Like we're filling in with other kinds of stuff.
• 23:35
  [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, such a good point.
• 23:37
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I think it can't be forgotten forever.
• 23:39
  [SPEAKER_03]: I think that's the real key is like we can't just sweep it under the table.
• 23:43
  [SPEAKER_03]: I guess like when you have that date, because this came out for me too, it's like when you have
• 23:50
  [SPEAKER_03]: because like that wasn't really, that wasn't my intention.
• 23:53
  [SPEAKER_03]: It was more of this need for protecting yourself and not even protecting yourself, but just owning like an honoring what you want in life, like what I wanted in life was a partner that would be forward with me.
• 24:07
  [SPEAKER_03]: So like how do you decouple those two?
• 24:09
  [SPEAKER_03]: Cause also made them get such a bad rap.
• 24:12
  [SPEAKER_01]: Ultimately, it gets a really bad rap and it's, there's pressure, you know, built into that.
• 24:16
  [SPEAKER_01]: I think what's helpful is when a couple decides together, we're going to revisit this in three months, then it's not an ultimate of it's an agreement because if I'm the one with my foot on the break, can I be humble enough to say that actually it's not fair of me to hold you back?
• 24:33
  [SPEAKER_01]: I appreciate you're giving me three months.
• 24:36
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
• 24:36
  [SPEAKER_01]: to see if this can loosen, to see if I can get some more clarity inside of me like how generous of you to give me that time.
• 24:45
  [SPEAKER_01]: And just the same way, I don't want to be strong-armed into deeper commitment.
• 24:49
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's not fair of me to hold you back from something that you have said is really important.
• 24:54
  [SPEAKER_01]: So I think there's something about framing it as an agreement.
• 24:57
  [SPEAKER_01]: that we both agree it's a problem and I think a general principle and interrelationships is something of the problem for one person, it's a problem for both of you.
• 25:05
  [SPEAKER_01]: You know, I think somebody who rolls their eyes and is like, this is not a problem, that person is not a great candidate to be your partner, right?
• 25:12
  [SPEAKER_01]: Who does it like dismisses your concern flat out, then you probably are abandoning yourself by
• 25:18
  [SPEAKER_01]: waiting around.
• 25:19
  [SPEAKER_01]: But we're assuming in this example that the person is saying, I get it.
• 25:23
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm not going to feel like shit about myself or not being as ready as you are.
• 25:26
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm not going to become ashamed of myself.
• 25:28
  [SPEAKER_01]: But I'm also not going to shame you for being ready.
• 25:32
  [SPEAKER_01]: You're not a fool for being ready and I'm not a dick for not being ready.
• 25:36
  [SPEAKER_01]: Right.
• 25:36
  [SPEAKER_01]: So that agreement is like, let's agree together.
• 25:39
  [SPEAKER_01]: We'll put it away for three months and then come back to it and that becomes a check-in.
• 25:44
  [SPEAKER_02]: This really reveals someone's character too, just how they even deal with this being an issue.
• 25:50
  [SPEAKER_02]: It's not even about the paste discrepancy.
• 25:52
  [SPEAKER_02]: It's how you are facing this conflict.
• 25:56
  [SPEAKER_02]: What about a scenario, which has happened to a few of my friends, and I think Julie for you a little bit as well, is like when the paste discrepancy changes.
• 26:04
  [SPEAKER_02]: So in the beginning, they're on the same page and all of a sudden there's a shift.
• 26:08
  [SPEAKER_02]: I have a couple of friends, they're married, they both want to have kids within two years of getting married, and as soon as I got married, the wife was like, I need more time.
• 26:16
  [SPEAKER_02]: I don't want to have kids for at least five years, and the husband is now freaking out, because he's like, well, the reason why we were doing this is like, we were on the same page, as a person who was on the receiving end of your partner changing their pace.
• 26:30
  [SPEAKER_02]: What's the best way to deal with that?
• 26:31
  [SPEAKER_01]: When I would hope in that situation is that the wife can make an apology.
• 26:37
  [SPEAKER_01]: I suck.
• 26:39
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm terrible, but the apology is a recognition.
• 26:42
  [SPEAKER_01]: We agreed to something, and now I don't feel the same way again.
• 26:46
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm sorry.
• 26:47
  [SPEAKER_01]: That must feel confusing to you.
• 26:49
  [SPEAKER_01]: That must feel frightening to you.
• 26:51
  [SPEAKER_01]: That must feel frustrating to you, right?
• 26:53
  [SPEAKER_01]: And that apology isn't I'm terrible, but the apology is I'm sorry that I had said one thing, and now I'm
• 27:00
  [SPEAKER_01]: that we're here, it's changing for me.
• 27:03
  [SPEAKER_01]: And so then to like supercharge that apology, it also would be, let's talk about how to protect the relationship from the hurt of this.
• 27:11
  [SPEAKER_01]: That's a really different way in than a wife who says,
• 27:16
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's not a big deal.
• 27:17
  [SPEAKER_01]: You're overreacting.
• 27:19
  [SPEAKER_01]: What's the difference between two years and five years?
• 27:21
  [SPEAKER_01]: You shouldn't be ready anyways.
• 27:23
  [SPEAKER_01]: We don't have the money anyways.
• 27:25
  [SPEAKER_01]: That sort of standing on ceremony is getting a little bit kind of grandiose.
• 27:29
  [SPEAKER_01]: I know best.
• 27:30
  [SPEAKER_01]: I know better what we need than you do.
• 27:32
  [SPEAKER_01]: Anything like that is going to just increase the space.
• 27:36
  [SPEAKER_01]: And one of the key skills for a healthy relationship is to know
• 27:39
  [SPEAKER_01]: how to apologize, and then I'm going to know that an apology doesn't mean I'm a terrible person, but an apology means I get it.
• 27:46
  [SPEAKER_01]: I see what you see.
• 27:47
  [SPEAKER_01]: I was in that conversation.
• 27:49
  [SPEAKER_01]: I know we said two years and now I'm saying five years and so I apologize and let's figure out how to kind of like move through this.
• 27:56
  [SPEAKER_01]: I think that's one of the key pieces that tell me what you think.
• 27:59
  [SPEAKER_03]: No, I a hundred percent agree and I think that's like how like you asked earlier like how did you know like if you should keep holding on to this I think the way someone reacts is so telling that being said though not everyone has the relational skills We know that most people do not have those relational skills even if they like are a good person and they want to say that there's always what comes out
• 28:20
  [SPEAKER_03]: And I mean, I am 100% for couples therapy, like I know we talked about ways you can deal with this if you're not doing couples therapy, but if you have the opportunity to feel compelled, I think it goes so much under the surface and teaches you this type of thing too.
• 28:35
  [SPEAKER_03]: Like how can you start to build these relational skills even, you know, when it's not an issue, but let's say when there is this time of peace discrepancy that you're confronted with.
• 28:47
  [SPEAKER_01]: you know, it matters.
• 28:48
  [SPEAKER_01]: Like let's say with this couple, if her response is that really invalidating response, like he might be able to kind of grit his teeth and wait five years to a baby, but he will not forget that.
• 28:59
  [SPEAKER_01]: No.
• 28:59
  [SPEAKER_01]: He really won't.
• 29:00
  [SPEAKER_01]: And I'm sitting with couples ahead a couple sessions a week where in the session, you know, one is bringing up pain from 25.
• 29:06
  [SPEAKER_01]: years ago, right?
• 29:08
  [SPEAKER_01]: Because it wasn't addressed.
• 29:09
  [SPEAKER_01]: It was papered over, you know, people didn't handle those moments of mismatch.
• 29:14
  [SPEAKER_01]: And maybe you can get through it and you can stay married, but if the pain doesn't go away, if you haven't really said, I can see how my behavior hurt you.
• 29:22
  [SPEAKER_01]: It makes sense from your, maybe I wouldn't even feel that way if I was in the spot that you're in.
• 29:26
  [SPEAKER_01]: But what you're telling me is that you are hurt and therefore we got to figure out how to tend to your hurt, because the last thing you want is for it to go underground and just build a bunch more years of
• 29:36
  [SPEAKER_01]: on top of it.
• 29:37
  [SPEAKER_01]: I think, Julie, that these relationships skills, I mean, it's why I love teaching college students because then, you know, you've had chance like 21, 22, to learn some of this stuff, but it's why I'll never not be busy, right?
• 29:49
  [SPEAKER_01]: Like my hotel have another podcast episode out, you know, next week in the week after because it is it's a lifetime.
• 29:55
  [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I feel fully confident that without the help of my own therapist, a number of couples therapist over the years, there's no way my husband and I would have celebrated
• 30:05
  [SPEAKER_01]: there's just no way I come from a family of divorce, a really complicated blended family.
• 30:10
  [SPEAKER_01]: I came in with a lot of baggage that I didn't ask for, but I had to take responsibility for I had to tool myself and learn how to do it because that woman, in that example, I can easily come up with the diminishing dismissing response because I'm
• 30:23
  [SPEAKER_01]: I know that response.
• 30:24
  [SPEAKER_01]: I've been that response.
• 30:26
  [SPEAKER_01]: You know, we're, I don't want to feel bad, so I'll make you feel crazy for wanting that thing.
• 30:30
  [SPEAKER_01]: You know, that stuff happens so quickly.
• 30:33
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I think the ladies are just as good as the men are, you know?
• 30:36
  [SPEAKER_00]: No discrimination, all that one.
• 30:38
  [SPEAKER_00]: No discrimination.
• 30:39
  [SPEAKER_00]: When it comes to invalidating somebody else's perspective, just suit our own needs.
• 30:43
  [SPEAKER_02]: That's such a good point.
• 30:44
  [SPEAKER_02]: I think sometimes we have to take the step back and say, am I in the wrong here, like do I need to take some responsibility here, because so much of what we learn in all the episodes we've done and all the experts we spoke into, it's about compromise and coming to a middle ground and not sacrificing your needs, but when you do need to take accountability for your actions, that needs to be the step before you start talking about what that work is and what that compromise looks like.
• 31:13
  [SPEAKER_02]: So thank you for that reminder.
• 31:15
  [SPEAKER_02]: It's important to hear.
• 31:16
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, there's a lot of therapists and coaches getting a lot of views on TikTok by, you know, telling people like, you deserve this and you should this, they won't, then you got it and if they want to, they, you know, and there's, I think fewer it's less kind of catchy and juicy to be asking people to hold up a mirror and look at the ways that they are asking for what they want and what they need, right?
• 31:38
  [SPEAKER_01]: Because it's
• 31:38
  [SPEAKER_01]: vulnerable to being inviting and to be curious and to be patient.
• 31:43
  [SPEAKER_01]: I think we have a lot of, you know, we sort of like overplay this idea of you should just ask for what you want and know what you're using to stand up for yourself.
• 31:52
  [SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
• 31:52
  [SPEAKER_01]: And sometimes those responses can shut somebody else down and can keep a conversation from happening, a dialogue from happening.
• 32:00
  [SPEAKER_01]: And it is hard to regulate and keep yourself calm
• 32:05
  [SPEAKER_01]: their experience and it is different from your own, or it's not quite the thing that you want.
• 32:10
  [SPEAKER_01]: So, I'm not saying it's easy, but it's really important.
• 32:14
  [SPEAKER_03]: I think one of the things for me that was, I actually am glad we had a paste discrepancy.
• 32:19
  [SPEAKER_03]: I know it's easier to say that now, because it worked out, but I think for me, I was so like, I've been waiting forever to meet this person.
• 32:28
  [SPEAKER_03]: And like, when I met my partner, I'm like, this is going to be who I end up with.
• 32:31
  [SPEAKER_03]: So I wanted everything to move really fast.
• 32:33
  [SPEAKER_03]: And, you know, the reality was, like, we actually ended up moving in together on our two-year anniversary.
• 32:40
  [SPEAKER_03]: So, wasn't like it was like 10 years went by and we've had this major paste discrepancy.
• 32:45
  [SPEAKER_03]: I think I got in a lot of stories in my head of like, well, I'm getting older and we should know what we want more.
• 32:50
  [SPEAKER_03]: So, like, a year goes by, let's move in together the next year, let's get engaged.
• 32:54
  [SPEAKER_03]: But the reality was, like, we didn't fully know each other even, like, even though we were spending all this time together and we clearly knew each other.
• 33:01
  [SPEAKER_03]: we didn't know like a lot of the core stuff that you were talking about of like you know where some of the stuff was stemming from and like things that we brought to the table like from our own past experiences and by doing this in couples there we can get taught us you know a lot about each other just understanding each other better taking it less personally and then also like how to deal with like voice concerns and not be like relationship ending in any way like
• 33:31
  [SPEAKER_03]: I may be over like corrected so much that I was like voicing everything and you know there were certain things that like were blind spots for both of us so how else do you think like having a piece discrepancy can actually set you up better in the long time.
• 33:47
  [SPEAKER_01]: There's so much maturity and self-awareness in you seeing it that way and it really feels, I mean, I feel how genuine that is for you.
• 33:55
  [SPEAKER_01]: Then having this problem, even though you wouldn't wish for this problem, you weren't like Susie Sunshine, so that you were having this problem.
• 34:02
  [SPEAKER_01]: But navigating the problem as a couple taught you.
• 34:06
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
• 34:06
  [SPEAKER_01]: a lot about yourself.
• 34:07
  [SPEAKER_01]: It taught him about himself and taught each of you about each other in ways that you wouldn't have if you were just kind of gliding from transition to transition.
• 34:15
  [SPEAKER_01]: And I think there's so much in life where it's like you'd never wish for it, but it's teaching you something nonetheless.
• 34:22
  [SPEAKER_01]: And that doesn't mean that you're excited about the problem or the talent.
• 34:25
  [SPEAKER_01]: And I think especially for those who grew up in families, divorce or who've gone through very painful breakups,
• 34:31
  [SPEAKER_01]: I think being in the trenches with the partner and kind of getting through something is a really important, like what a therapist would call a corrective emotional experience.
• 34:40
  [SPEAKER_01]: You know, I just kind of corrects that old story that we can't ever get upset because then the relationship will end or that deep fear that we can't even look at a problem together because it's going to end us.
• 34:51
  [SPEAKER_01]: And so I do think that there can be a hidden blessing in that.
• 34:54
  [SPEAKER_01]: And I think
• 34:55
  [SPEAKER_01]: The other thing is that, you know, you all will have down the road other variations on this theme where you want A and he wants B and you'll be like, ah, this reminds us of that time, you know, and what do we learn there and sort of like leveraging those earlier experiences when you have a different variation on the same theme because there's only so many themes right in, you know, relationship problems.
• 35:17
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, going back to this concept of time boxing, the word.
• 35:22
  [SPEAKER_02]: I often hear this happened to my previous relationship to six months, six months.
• 35:27
  [SPEAKER_02]: Do you release case like six months?
• 35:29
  [SPEAKER_02]: Do you think that's kind of the general guideline?
• 35:31
  [SPEAKER_02]: Give six months to this problem?
• 35:33
  [SPEAKER_01]: That's fascinating.
• 35:35
  [SPEAKER_01]: I think when I was giving a sample, I said three.
• 35:37
  [SPEAKER_03]: I would assume it probably has to do with what stage you're into.
• 35:41
  [SPEAKER_03]: Like, I feel like if you just start a dating subway, you probably would have given it like six months for them to come a lot.
• 35:47
  [SPEAKER_03]: I don't know.
• 35:47
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm thinking about how I handle this as the couples therapist.
• 35:50
  [SPEAKER_01]: And I would have the three of us together, like pull out our calendars and look at it together.
• 35:55
  [SPEAKER_01]: And so I would keep it contextualized.
• 35:57
  [SPEAKER_01]: maybe based on like a milestone like a trip that's coming up or an event that's coming up.
• 36:03
  [SPEAKER_01]: I think I probably would do it more like that and I would also be really explicit that time itself is arbitrary and the all we're doing is putting a pin there so that we can give the emotions
• 36:16
  [SPEAKER_01]: some space to like marinate, but not endless space.
• 36:21
  [SPEAKER_01]: So I think I would just I would get really clear and almost like with a shoulder shog say, how about six months?
• 36:27
  [SPEAKER_01]: You know, I just sort of like put it out there.
• 36:29
  [SPEAKER_01]: So I would want the partner with the foot on the break to
• 36:32
  [SPEAKER_01]: feel does that number create some opening inside of your chest and then I would want the person with their foot in the accelerator to say does that number help you feel proud of your ability to be patient you know like sort of it gives you space but you kind of feel an outer edge to it and you get to really be filled with pride in the patience.
• 36:54
  [SPEAKER_01]: I think that's what I would almost like from a body level up like trying to feel okay so sit with this number you know and kind of feel into it.
• 37:00
  [SPEAKER_03]: That's actually how our therapist did 100% and might have felt like six months but actually I'm like thinking about it when we met them it was like four months but a lot of it was around conversations like that and around a two year anniversary so that was the milestone again.
• 37:15
  [SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
• 37:15
  [SPEAKER_03]: So yeah, I think I 100% agree it's like, how do you find that balance of like, I remember that there was being like, what is the point for you that you're going to get to?
• 37:24
  [SPEAKER_03]: If you're going to build like too much resentment to move forward with this too, like as the person.
• 37:29
  [SPEAKER_03]: And like I do remember having those explicit combos.
• 37:32
  [SPEAKER_02]: You gotta give it enough time for things to change, right?
• 37:36
  [SPEAKER_02]: You can be like, in one month, we'll check in.
• 37:38
  [SPEAKER_02]: So I feel like there still needs to be like, at least three months in there somewhere.
• 37:43
  [SPEAKER_00]: You wait once on number.
• 37:45
  [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, you're the best part.
• 37:46
  [SPEAKER_00]: No less than three.
• 37:48
  [SPEAKER_00]: Clearly, you wait, stop.
• 37:49
  [SPEAKER_00]: Let's see if the, if the, if the, if the, if the, if the, if the, if the,
• 37:52
  [SPEAKER_00]: There needs to be a season.
• 37:54
  [SPEAKER_00]: You're gonna have the leaves have to change.
• 37:56
  [SPEAKER_03]: So I feel like I talked about how it actually was a good thing and it's strengthened, but that's coming from the perspective of it working out.
• 38:04
  [SPEAKER_03]: What about for the people that it doesn't work out?
• 38:06
  [SPEAKER_03]: You put in the time, you wait but three to six months, whatever that is, or no one's waiting, but you're working through it in those three to six months.
• 38:15
  [SPEAKER_03]: And then the person comes and says, I can't move forward.
• 38:18
  [SPEAKER_03]: I don't wanna do this.
• 38:19
  [SPEAKER_03]: How can you take away learnings from that other than this was a waste of time?
• 38:24
  [SPEAKER_03]: I don't believe it is, but I'm curious what you think.
• 38:27
  [SPEAKER_01]: I would hope that the person who's coming back, who at the end of the time still isn't ready, I would hope that they would have something a little bit more interesting, thoughtful, and generous to share than, I don't know, I'll still not ready, is not weird, my feelings didn't check.
• 38:44
  [SPEAKER_01]: You know what I mean?
• 38:45
  [SPEAKER_01]: Like, that they would have something a little bit deeper to share and something about, here's what I propose next.
• 38:51
  [SPEAKER_01]: You know, I'm not sure how this is going to land for you, but I've doing a lot of thinking about it.
• 38:55
  [SPEAKER_01]: And here's what's getting in my way still.
• 38:57
  [SPEAKER_01]: And here's what I'm thinking there again, like we're talking about how a lot of the stuff reveals someone's character.
• 39:02
  [SPEAKER_01]: I think that that would be.
• 39:03
  [SPEAKER_01]: If what they come back with is like the shoulder strike and like, oh, still not ready.
• 39:07
  [SPEAKER_01]: We are, isn't it?
• 39:08
  [SPEAKER_01]: Then that's, you know, I think that is definitely like data for the person.
• 39:13
  [SPEAKER_01]: It may be that at the end of that time frame, the person with the foot of the accelerator, they may have come up with something different by them, right?
• 39:20
  [SPEAKER_01]: They may have come up like another solution or another path forward might have emerged by them, like the problem itself might look and feel different by the end of the time.
• 39:29
  [SPEAKER_01]: So I think that there is this like,
• 39:30
  [SPEAKER_01]: faith walk or this like leap of faith that you don't actually know how the problem's going to look and feel at the end of the time and but certainly that would be I don't know how there's any way to get around the disappointment that would come if the person with their foot on the break is like I still can't get there.
• 39:46
  [SPEAKER_03]: I think it's knowing that you gave your all to.
• 39:48
  [SPEAKER_03]: That's so important, like you put it forward.
• 39:51
  [SPEAKER_03]: And I think what you said about like hearing, this person just be like, I'm not sure.
• 39:55
  [SPEAKER_03]: Like that tells you so much.
• 39:57
  [SPEAKER_03]: And like that isn't probably the relationship you wanted.
• 39:59
  [SPEAKER_03]: So at least you can like walk out knowing that you gave it a chance if like the person really can't move forward with it.
• 40:06
  [SPEAKER_01]: That's right, that you were courageous, you know, there's courage in waiting, there's courage in sitting in the gray and that that doesn't go away just because you didn't have the outcome that you wanted.
• 40:20
  [SPEAKER_01]: I would hope that if the person still doesn't feel ready that they feel troubled.
• 40:26
  [SPEAKER_01]: by that.
• 40:27
  [SPEAKER_01]: You know, not that it means that they're a bad person, but there's something that feels sort of troubling about I don't know enough how to drive my own ship.
• 40:34
  [SPEAKER_01]: In life, you know, I don't know how to get into the driver's seat of my own life.
• 40:38
  [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know how to move towards the things that I want or move away from the things that I don't want.
• 40:42
  [SPEAKER_01]: There's something about if somebody has that really passive shoulder shruggy, I just don't know that I would actually want them an individual therapy working on that because what was it in your life that taught you
• 40:55
  [SPEAKER_01]: untrustworthy.
• 40:56
  [SPEAKER_01]: You don't get to declare and move towards things that feel good to you, that you somehow aren't worthy of being committed to or making a commitment to someone else.
• 41:08
  [SPEAKER_01]: Like, there's something about that kind of stuckness and pastivity that warrants someone's deeper exploration.
• 41:14
  [SPEAKER_01]: Because that feels like it's got roots that started long before they met their partner.
• 41:18
  [SPEAKER_03]: This has been
• 41:19
  [SPEAKER_03]: such a facetated conversation, just like one last question before we go into takeaways, like if you have experienced this work through it, like how do you not worry that this is going to happen again and like have the confidence that you can get through it?
• 41:34
  [SPEAKER_03]: Because it's realistically like you said it's a good odds that you're going to not see eye to eye a hundred percent throughout the course of your relationship.
• 41:41
  [SPEAKER_01]: So I'm thinking about for you and your partner.
• 41:44
  [SPEAKER_01]: If there's another time where you're a little more accelerator and your partner's a little more break, like I would want your partner feel to say, like, ah, I am so grateful for Julie's clarity.
• 41:52
  [SPEAKER_01]: Like Julie's clarity and her willingness to take the risk really does serve us because it keeps us from spending our wheels and over analyzing.
• 42:00
  [SPEAKER_01]: And I would want you to be able to say to your partner, like, you know what?
• 42:03
  [SPEAKER_01]: Sometimes he is a total pain in my ass and he does this stuff.
• 42:06
  [SPEAKER_01]: But there is, you know, I know that I'm sometimes a little bit impulsive and eager and it's not bad to be slowed down Sometimes.
• 42:13
  [SPEAKER_01]: So I think that that's, you know, like there's something about also when you have that tendency Really being able to remember that we are actually a stronger couple Because we've got somebody who, you know, looks before they leave and because we've got somebody who knows that you cannot wait around for a hundred percent certainty So really like seeing that the two of you is a couple
• 42:31
  [SPEAKER_01]: get to leverage this difference even when it feels like a total pain in the ass sometime.
• 42:37
  [SPEAKER_03]: It's such a good way to think about it.
• 42:39
  [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, I think my biggest takeaway from all of this is that we just cannot have this like Disney definition of love or a rom-com definition.
• 42:48
  [SPEAKER_03]: Like that you just like meet and it all works out.
• 42:50
  [SPEAKER_03]: Like, and it's not it.
• 42:51
  [SPEAKER_03]: Like, it's just the reality of two people coming together and like learning to have these relational skills, especially in early stage day-day, but we feel like, oh, it's too early to communicate.
• 43:03
  [SPEAKER_03]: It's too early to bring this up, but that's why so many things don't work out, because we're not relating.
• 43:09
  [SPEAKER_03]: We're just assuming and having these like preconceived notions of one side of the story without really knowing that other person.
• 43:16
  [SPEAKER_03]: And how can we start to look at the person in more of a humane way of like, this is what they're going through.
• 43:24
  [SPEAKER_03]: They're not on the exact same page as me.
• 43:26
  [SPEAKER_03]: I need to cut it off and move on.
• 43:28
  [SPEAKER_03]: And I think in dating and even in relationships, it's really hard to get the ego out of the way.
• 43:34
  [SPEAKER_03]: But we have to do it in a way that brings the heart into the equation, right?
• 43:39
  [SPEAKER_03]: Because that's ultimately like what we want anyways.
• 43:41
  [SPEAKER_03]: And
• 43:41
  [SPEAKER_03]: I'm not saying to wait around forever, but staying true to your needs, but also giving the opportunity to work through it, that's what a relationship is ultimately.
• 43:51
  [SPEAKER_02]: Definitely.
• 43:52
  [SPEAKER_02]: Here's takeaway for me is a paste discrepancy is just another conflict in a relationship.
• 43:58
  [SPEAKER_02]: And it's another facet of a relationship.
• 44:00
  [SPEAKER_02]: It does not define the relationship.
• 44:03
  [SPEAKER_02]: and I've certainly had previous experiences where it was all consuming for me and where I began to resent my partner for it.
• 44:11
  [SPEAKER_02]: And there needs to be this reminder that this relationship was built more than just you to talking about your pastes currency.
• 44:18
  [SPEAKER_02]: There's just so much more to it.
• 44:20
  [SPEAKER_02]: So that's my first big takeaway.
• 44:22
  [SPEAKER_02]: Second one is I think having this kind of conflict sets a strong
• 44:29
  [SPEAKER_02]: see it that way.
• 44:30
  [SPEAKER_02]: And I believe that throughout your relationship, you could become the accelerator or the one on the break.
• 44:37
  [SPEAKER_02]: So setting kind of like a template for what the future past discrepancy could look like, you're able to handle those conflicts much better.
• 44:46
  [SPEAKER_02]: It's an opportunity to address the future too.
• 44:49
  [SPEAKER_02]: So love all these points, and I hope that to our listeners
• 44:56
  [SPEAKER_02]: you're able to take in some of these lessons about not just open communication because we say that so much, but also just like creating this empathy and compassion for your partner.
• 45:07
  [SPEAKER_02]: There's no blame or shame in any discrepancies you may have.
• 45:12
  [SPEAKER_02]: It's an opportunity to address how you can build a stronger relationship together.
• 45:17
  [SPEAKER_02]: So thank you so much again, Dr. Alexander Solomon.
• 45:21
  [SPEAKER_02]: If people want to find out more about you, where can they go, especially for your new book?
• 45:25
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, the new book is available wherever books are sold.
• 45:27
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's called Love Every Day.
• 45:28
  [SPEAKER_01]: And I have of course love to send people to bookshop.org, which supports the independent booksellers.
• 45:35
  [SPEAKER_01]: But then everything that is in my world is on Dr. Alexander Solomon.com.
• 45:39
  [SPEAKER_01]: There's a blog, links to social media, links to the reimagining love.
• 45:43
  [SPEAKER_02]: podcast and e-courses and all of the things wonderful and if you haven't done so yet subscribe to the psychology of relationships today so you don't miss an episode and we'll see you all next week bye