Latest / Healthier: Building Health & Fitness Businesses / Fitness industry legend: How to sell to gyms in 2026 | David Stalker, ukactive | Healthier Ep 14
Transcript
- david v3 audio: So you're about to hear from the man that everyone in UK fitness wants to speak to and hear from. David Stalker is the chair of UK Active and the man behind some of the amazing growth that we've seen in the industry over recent times. In this episode, we talk about his tips for founders to survive. I think they need to know when to lead and when to delegate and ultimately when to get out of the way. What he sees in terms of common mistakes that founders make. If people have views, they like the idea, they get the idea, they say Yeah, but that's gonna be really quite complicated because I've got to take that onto the shop or and deliver that product which I can see suiting HyRox elite athlete, but I don't see how it suits the other side of it. How you can make sure that you're accelerating sales in the UK fitness industry? If you're bold enough, the only thing that was in a board pack for our industry was membership sales. That was it. And then food and beverage sorta was added in there. Suddenly became a line. Personal training became a line. And the supplements became a line. I think people coming in here should have the ambition of being a line on that. I'm bold enough that eventually I'm going to be a relevant line either in your revenue or in your savings. It's a really exciting episode, and you need to stick by if you want to learn about how to succeed in UK fitness in 2026. Welcome back to Healthier, the place for people building in fitness, health, and wellness. And I'm so excited today to have David Sauker join me. David, I would love for you to give a quick introduction to yourself. there is a lot to talk about and where you've been, where you are now. and then we can dig into some of the amazing insights that you have from your time in the industry. Brilliant. Thank you, Will, and thanks very much for inviting me on on your podcast. I will make it brief because because I've been in the industry a long time. in quick summary, I I started as a personal trainer in this industry. that's in the late 80s. and And was probably as bad an example as a personal trainer as has ever been, but moderately successful or quite successful because I think I'm a people's person. I I'm good at listening to people and seeing where they go anyway. It was the beginning, the the eighties with the beginning of the health and fitness industry. and I got involved with a company, which I later became managing director of, which grew to run a hundred local authority sites throughout the country. so I went from fitness instructor to fitness manager to to helping helping set set these up. It was an exciting time for the fitness industry. Worked with LA Fitness, who were the UK LA Fitness when they were going on the market, set up a supplement company in the Channel Islands, worked with a venture comfortable company in Switzerland, set up the Fitness Industry Association used to exist. I moved that and became chief executive and moved that to UK Active. help set up Europe Active, the equivalent in Europe, those are the trade bodies who are trying to drive it forward, or get messages over as tricky as it is to government. 2012 Olympics, I was part of the group that set up the Chartered Institute, SimSpa using the back of s the the Olympics. and that has grown and I was there first chief exec and then appointed Tara who's a chief exec currently have come back as chair of UK Active. I mentor quite a lot of up and coming executives in this area. Some are entrepreneurs just coming into the industry, and some are people who are in the industry who I think will be the firm foundation going forward. and and I act as a strategic advisor to some well established companies and sit on their board in in the industry and to other start up companies where Well I'm excited by what they're doing and excited by the people. Things. from when I was introduced to you by Max, he I said, yeah, I'm gonna aim to meet David at this event and he said, I would try and meet him before because I've never seen a queue like it for people trying to speak to David at any at any fitness event. So you are you are definitely a man who is i in d in demand and and kind of clearly got a huge amount of experience and insight into what makes fitness businesses in the UK in particular. succeed and fail. And I think that's what's so exciting for me to chat about today, because I think there's so much that our audience they they are typically building businesses or investing in businesses or wanting to work at businesses in the fitness industry, in the health industry. So I'd have to start off with a really easy question, David, which is which is in i from everything that you've seen, the the businesses that you've advised, the pe businesses that you've chosen not to advise, the businesses that you've worked for, businesses that you've interacted with as part trade bodies. Are there emerging traits and patterns for today's day and age that makes some succeed and others fall by the wayside? Yeah, I think I think there are. entrepreneurs and the people by nature tend to have a lot of these traits, but whether they use them as successfully as they could is, you know, or whether focus is so the clear proposition is often clear to the entrepreneur, but it's gotta be clear to the customer immediately, understand. why it matters, what difference it's gonna make, whether it's gonna make a difference to retention, bottom line, or w whatever it happens to be, a the clear prop proposition. and a real great execution plan is much better than a great idea, how it how it's gonna follow through. I'd r I'd rather a moderate idea with a great execution plan that's laid out in front of me that can confidently see where it's going. strong people, entrepreneurs tend to be strong people, and the the people around them tend to be strong, which which is great. where they fall down a bit is they're creating a culture around themselves. And I think often they need to look at creating the culture around the products and the industry that they're they're going into. so make sure they get that right. a relentless and absolutely relentless focus on the customer. A lot of people who listen to this would be common sense. but I'm saying go back to these points. I know that entrepreneurs have this mindset, but complete asking, have I strayed away to thinking of my product as opposed to the customer? Is it completely clear? Do we have the ability to adapt without constantly changing direction? I see it's so tempting, having we both run businesses, it's so tempting to be like, But I know I've got this thing and it's amazing and let me tell you all the ways in which it's amazing, instead of saying So what is it that you need and and does my thing actually help with that thing that you need? so in it today, we we're taping this early September twenty twenty six. if I was to give you a big pot of money, five, ten million quid, really big pot of money. That's to build something that the UK that would succeed in the UK health and fitness industry today, where would you be spending that money? A lot of people fail because they they confuse a good product with a good business idea. Yeah. and then, you know, actually five, ten million pounds is an awful lot of money, but they often underestimate cash. You know, the that type of thing and try to do too much early. So it's I I don't like knocking people's ideas because creativity is what what entrepreneurs have got there. So where I think they they they fail perhaps is in the research and not asking the questions. And when people say, Well, I'm not sure about that, they they often think, Well, I am, as opposed to exploring why they're not. the t tech is going to be the sort of d is the dominating area of for for for the industry, how how how you can come and and make a difference in in that area. So it's tech tech solutions that that I would I would be looking at. but it's it's the simplicity of that tech solution. So if I could look at that solution and say, sort of you know, what's the evidence this is going to make make a difference? And it's quite easy, easy so retention. The industry goes on forever about retention. So if you're and I'm not too sure that the industry's asking itself the question, why aren't we retaining people? your question is, how will this help people stay in the facility? How will this make their journey that much more yeah, become par part of their life? If you can give something into this industry that isn't complicated, which gives the users, the consumers at the end of the day, a measurable tool to see that they're making a difference, and this is in a world where data is being flooded at us. So so I'm trying to move back to simple from from complicated. If you can get onto a product which somebody can implement or an not an app but a techno technological solution, where are the big things? Strength. If if you've got something which looks at a a strength outcome, I think you know e everyone i it's the big thing there th that people are talking about. If you've got something that's focuses on an older market, which is tricky with the tech, but if you but but let's not be naive. I'm I'm I'm in my early sixties and I'm not tech savvy, but neither am I tech naive. I'm a big market and many people aren't looking at that market and they really should be. And there's more health industry issues in that market. If we're moving this industry from health to f from fitness to health, They're a great o great opportunity. So that's super interesting to what you're saying. So you would focus squarely on how do I help gyms to retain customers. And then there was something else I think you said, which is in retention, you'd be trying to h essentially help members of those gyms to see how they are hitting getting their outcomes or getting closer to their outcomes. Is that right? yeah, and let's And then strength in order. Exactly. And those those those outcomes should be really clear. We think that this will have a measurable difference on your retention rate, on your cash, on the how long your staff say, on your customer satisfaction. And if you're going to back yourself on that, I mean you've only got to move retention by a tiny a tiny amount and it's an enormous opportunity. But likewise you've only got to move staff retention by a tiny amount and you've got better customer service and it all way all pay all pays back to you've only got to move usage by a tiny tiny amount. You know, I think people think this is the thing that's going to make this enormous difference. But if you can move the needle just by a little bit in a simple way, then I think all you know all the operators out there would would are excited by that. Everything you've just said is something that could come out of a board meeting as a Okay, this is a burning platform, we need to fix it, right? So you could imagine UK Jim Co. Yeah, coming out like having a board meeting and going, guys, retent like we need to hit next this year's numbers. And if we move retention by one percent, that's going to help us hit. Or guys, our staff retention is really causing us issues. We need to solve it. And it's those kind of problems that you want to be solving. And they typically will have a line in a spreadsheet, and ideally a line in a spreadsheet that sits in the board deck. that you can then go after. I I think sometimes I chat to founders and they might have some amazing product, but th they're essentially trying to sell against some like fluffy vibes, like you it'll be really cool if you're using this or d don't you understand it's gonna like make things feel really good. That is great. But no one is coming out of a board meeting going, Hey, we need cool. A hundred percent. Well they're coming out of a board meeting is saying, what results is this doing it and I could quantify it. What is the experience it's giving people? do people have a feeling of belonging as a result of what what's happening here? Is it convenient and what and the value ultimately the results, experience, belonging, experience, value. I can KPI these factors against this product. It doesn't have to hit everyone, but it needs it needs to be able to show. You're right. The the it the board meeting is where where once upon a time the only thing that was in a membership in a board pack for our industry was membership sales. That was it. That was it. And then food and beverage sort of was added in there, suddenly became a line, and then personal training became a line and the supplements became a line. I think people coming in here should have the ambition of being a line on that. I'm bold enough that eventually I'm going to be a relevant line either either in your revenue or in your savings. That's the idea. 'Cause people in those board meetings are at the industry conference and then someone speaks about it and then and then the the CEO of the I don't mean this disparagingly but they might be on the up, but like a level C firm goes, Well, I saw level A talking and they're doing X, what are we doing about X? And then the email gets sent at four five o'clock in the morning and then some the some director needs to do something about it and they come and knock on your door and it's yeah and it's exciting times. A and will in this industry that is is i is really gonna say is on steroids, but it is still a very much a people's industry. I mean it's it's an extraordinarily open industry. I've known many CEOs have come into the industry from much bigger, much bigger players and all of them say when I say you enjoying this industry they say what I we love about this industry is you wall talk. You you all talk and you talk about things that we never would have spoken about. Everyone talks about how performance is going, everyone talks about challenges, and everyone talks about products and ideas. And they just super interesting. So so then maybe another tactic for a founder in this space would be to become talkaboutable or become easily talkaboutable. Exa exactly exactly that, which is why sitting alongside that the product and and the i i is likability. And that's not just ability in the product. It's the people who are driving yeah driving that product. So I'll work with people if produ if if I believe in the product. I'm you know, I'm I'm I'm very old school. I'm much more concerned about making a difference to the health of this nation. I believe people will get the commercial benefits out of that. It's just an enormous opportunity in the greatest possible time. Imagine that. Imagine caring imagine actually caring about the outcomes. How old fashioned so you you said something interesting there. You said about like you have execs come in from other industries and they're surprised about how much people in in this industry talk. And then you also talked about you're kind of talking to founders and they know everything about their products, but you've got a lot to teach them about how this industry works. I'd love to put on those two threads and and kind of ask what else do execs find themselves surprised about or what should founders know if they want to make it in this industry in particular, that might be a little different or if if I'm maybe a heads down founder who has some amazing piece of tech, what what what do I need to know about how to actually bring that to life and make a impact on the health of people in the UK and pick up the commercial benefits for that? Yeah, I think if you're a founder coming in and you've had nothing to do with the industry in the past, I I I think that f first thing, get to know people in the industry. Get to to know people And I I think don't be scared of talking to people about what you're planning. Literally no one's going to steal your idea. Yeah. They're just not. And don't be scared of them in fact I would push to trying to get them to be critical of your idea. Yeah. because because if if people have views, they like the idea, they get the idea, they s say, yeah, but that's going to be really quite complicated because I've got to take that onto the shop for and you know deliver that to that product which I can see suiting X Hyrox really elite athlete, but I don't see how it suits the other side of it. So will there be a simpler, simpler version and you haven't thought about that? Now if you came back to market and said we are just focusing on the elite athlete, that person will feel that you have listened to their viewpoint. They won't go, my God. They haven't managed to solve it for everybody. You can buy so much goodwill and s so much insight by just speaking to people who have walked the floor in health clubs and facilities forever and a ever and a day. W I think founders are naturally you know, they're they're either getting backed or using their own money and it's it's it's worrying and it's my idea and it's precious and all the rest of it. I I just wouldn't be I wouldn't be over precious about it. Hey, we'll hear from the future. If you've enjoyed this episode or you're enjoying it so far, then you will love our note. The note is a weekly email that we send out, which includes our learnings and playbooks from the people we're speaking to, includes any invites to future events as we're building Healthier, the place for founders in health, fitness and well being, and it includes any new episodes. So go to healthierco dot com and sign up and we'll see you there. I think there's a quite a British thing as well. We're not drawn to talking about vision. We're not talk drawn to talking about what's the big change we want to make. We w we want to become as you mentioned earlier, we want to become our own line on the board pack. it's it that feels quite American, right? We're much we're you're much more likely to bump into a UK founder and they'll tell you kind of the stuff they did a year ago that's kind of a hundred percent bulletproof instead of even the stuff that they're kind of been working on over the last few months that might not be absolutely perfect. Whereas you bump into a US founder, you bump into someone who's just gone through Y Combinator or through Y Combinator, they'll tell you about the product that's going to exist in ten years, maybe, if everything goes right. And and they'll talk about that like it exists today. The best part is probably somewhere in the middle. But maybe we could move slightly further on that scale. Yeah, I think it's interesting the American versus British difference. I mean I I think if if you're If you're curious, you're self aware, you've got a commercial understanding, all those things, the ability to listen, these are things we sh we should be able to do. but I think we sit there thinking, how are we going to make a difference to health and fitness? But actually think about where it could go, where it could go. If if you say your product is going to make a difference in moving fitness to health, that's a massive statement. So how is it going to? So be bold, be be bolder and then get people to To give you their views. Talk about your product. because that that's the next bit. Once you once you're out there selling and going there, be prepared that once you go to that pilot, gosh, you've got to deliver. and that's the other area where I think that sometimes I've seen with founders fail is they've gone in there and they haven't created the team in order to deliver. So let's imagine w I am founder of ABC Tech and I've just got my pilot with the gym group. They've taken us on. They believe that we can help move their retention in the right direction and we've got the product to to to to roll out. How am I going to get that pilot right? And what have you seen in terms of people getting it wrong? If you are if you've got through the the the door to get to pilot with with someone, gym group. Pure Jim, David Lloyd. I I think don't be overambitious with with your pilot. You know, I would say, yes, we're gonna pilot this product. I would like to pilot this product, let's say, at six sites in six separate regions, and identify and the reason for that is because a lot of whatever product you you do will be as a result of the people who work in those sites. and if you end up in one region with one regional manager and the rest of it, you're you're you will be relying on their commitment to to to help you secondly, make sure that you have the boots on the ground to to make sure that those those pilots are implemented, followed up, checked, questions answered. phone calls, trips out, find the winners on the on the ground to help you. Who's the person within gym group or whoever it happens to be f in the structure wherever who are going to be your champions? I think that's that's really important. Right. So so I had an enterprise tech company for a long time and you start off thinking we're a technology company and I mean this is totally naive but this is probably how it was for the first couple when we get the pilots. So what we do is we give them the keys to the tech, we give them their logins and we tell them how to use it. And then we check in and say, how did it go? We we know our tech's great, so I assume that was great and let's let's get that bigger PO please. And and then by by the time I I I moved on from that company, we were smothering people for for that pilot period and and beyond to be honest. it the the goal was a successful outcome and we would do whatever it took technology or people to make that successful outcome happen. And it's interesting 'cause because I think there's probably founders out there now who have got clawed code and can and and feel that you can automate a million different emails to tell people how to use your product. You could build in a second some beautiful training website. you could do all of this stuff. But actually I think that that makes boots on the ground even more valuable. And that makes actually turning up to the gym, to the head office, finding that person sitting next to them, watching how they're using it, checking in with them on a phone call, WhatsApping, texting, all of that stuff. What what what can AI not do that you can do to be a human being that could become successful? There's that old thing of person to hug. Like I think that one point of contact that you can get in touch with and I so important. Yeah, I I I love to hear it because you you used you used a word right at the beginning of what you said there, smother. You move to smother and it's not often you use the word smother with such a positive outcome. But honestly it is so important. Remembering the people who work in this industry, they they care about people. they're not less necessarily always the intellectual leaders, but they they really appreciate that what that one and what what one on some one support. They they tend to be sponges and then they forget things. And nothing will be more important in this industry than the personalities who are bringing this forward being there on the on the front line, which is why I say keep those keep those trials to a manageable bit where you or your other key founders amongst you or your senior people are available. Yeah. I'd love to love to change tack for this last bit, which is to talk about scaling. So I guess a lot of what we've talked about so far has been how are are these kind of founders that that are maybe earlier on in their journey gonna take those first steps, what should they know? I'd love to talk about how companies can go from good to great. At what point do these founders tend to kind of get in their own way? Yeah. i I think it's th th founders do not always but often do do get in their own way. It's it's I I think they need to know when to lead and when and when to delegate. All all founders grow teams. The best founders are the ones who are listening to the people who they bring into those teams and they see them as entrepreneurial as they see themselves. So in other words, they say, Okay, you're in my team, you are my expert on on X, you kick on, you crack on. You don't need to tell me everything you're doing. I just want you to go and make a different difference in there, make your mistakes and a and and own it. I see too often founders micromanaging that situation and that often comes because they're worried about cash and the rest of it. a and what they are is founders are exciting people. who are trying to make a difference, who really believe in themselves probably a little bit too much. and then really driving. And without them, nothing of these businesses would happen. But at what point that recognizing at the what point do I need more diplomatic people in in in in my team who are able to take an idea and drive it forward in a realistic time scale to turn round to me and say, no, we're not doing that. We're not doing that because we're not doing this properly yet. That from a me mentality to that team mentality. and otherwise otherwise not that they not that they will fail, but they th they'll never scale to to, in my view, to the level that they could. That's I'd love to finish off with a little bit of navel gazing. so with all of the access that you have, with all of the insight that you have, with all the experience that you've got, What do you think is interesting in terms of problems to help the industry solve, in terms of opportunity, in terms of places to build companies, as we sit here in in twenty twenty six? I think ideals are plentiful. it's the execution and d distribution of those that are scarce. So I but you know, I I think the four key four key areas that if I was a founder that I would focus on. and so does my product move the industry from being a fitness to a health delivery? it does it increase the the the impact into a community. the the product and when I say community it might be it might be the membership. It might be the particular club, but does what I'm doing impact into into that community? So if it's a it's delivering health and in that community it's measurable. Anything that drives the standards of this industry forward. Anything which it makes us be credible and therefore it needs to be measurable, which is where the tech industry is fantastic because it should be measurable. So we can actually say Because of this, our people have improved, our standards have improved, and we c we can measure the difference. There's all the there aren't many areas and the and there are health areas which are much more specific, but but if you're if it's if it moves from fitness to health, if it drives a change in a in the community and identify the community that you want to drive that change ch change in, if it takes up the standards of this industry and makes it more professional. and and ultimately the if it can't be measured, it can't be managed, so data has to be coming out of the becs. Because it you then become a a fulfilling circle to make not just a difference with your product, but you're making a difference to the to the nation. You're literally making a difference to to everybody. You're a you're a winner, a hundred percent. Yeah. Amazing. What that's a master class in in how to how to think about opportunity, how to position. thank you so much, David. This has been This has been excellent. so aside from queuing to meet you at the next conference, is that is there anywhere that people can find you online to to keep Yeah, I I'm David Stalker o on LinkedIn. always you know, I I'm always open to people getting in touch with me. They can get me David at DSleisure.com. and I'm always available. Yeah, drop me a line, always happy to chat, love exciting people. Excellent. Thank you so much.