Latest / Cut the BS, Your Health, Your Choice / Season 3, Ep. 8: Caregiving Access and the Real Work of Supporting Supporters

Transcript

Season 3, Ep. 8: Caregiving Access and the Real Work of Supporting Supporters · Cut the BS, Your Health, Your Choice

• Marcia Lee: Hello everybody, this is Marcia Lee. Welcome to the latest episode of Cut the BS, Your Health, Your Choice. I am your host today. So today I have the honor of having my good friend and colleague Jane Luan. So she's a proud mama to her adult son and French bulldog Theodore. Everybody knows Theodore. So she's a dedicated philanthropic consultant, wellness advocate, and passionate community supporter. who believes deeply in the power of compassion, connection, and meeting people where they are. Her work has allowed her to support survivors of human trafficking, foster youth, unhoused communities, newer diverse families, veterans, and animal welfare organizations. She brings both heart and honesty to conversations about caregiving, healthy eating and mental wellness. She believes that taking care of others should never mean losing ourselves in the process, and that wellness does not have to be perfect to be meaningful. Through her work and personal experiences, she learned that small intentional choices, a little grace and a lot of kindness and genuine human connection can make a powerful difference. So today's topic is caregiving. I reached out to Jane because, like I said, she's been very supportive of. all my endeavors in this digital community and we talked about caregiving because I'm also going through it so this was this is going to be a first in a series of caregiving episodes that I will be dropping so if anybody wants to tell their story feel free to DM me all my notes all my information will be in the show notes as well as James so Jane take it away welcome hey Jane: Queen, hey, I am so excited to be here and so honored to be part of your show. you know, I'm a huge fan of you personally for everything you choose to do with your platform, how many lives you've touched, how many people you have supported and helped navigate the whole like health and wellness, and so to be asked to join the conversation on caretaking is such an honor. So thank you for having me. Marcia Lee: And thank before Jane really gets started, let me run you some stats real quick. According to ARP, 63 million Americans work as unpaid caregivers. Totaling one trillion dollars if they got paid. And sixty-two percent of caregivers are women. So Jane, you want to tell your story about how your caregiving journey began? Jane: Sure. first of all, I am not surprised by those stats. I think naturally as society, I feel as women, we're just assumed the role, right? No one really asks, no one really, you know, checks in about, you know, hey, is this okay? And I think as women we just kind of feel very obligated to take on that role. We're we're natural nurturers, as I am told. so I feel like a lot of times we don't have the choice. For me, I feel like caregiving has been my whole entire life, you know. If it's not one person, it's another. If it's not family, it's friends. and then, you know, clients. And I kind of fell into caretaking for clients on I guess like a whim, you know, like I taught special education for almost sixteen years and so you know there's caretaking in that role on a different level but my first caretaking client was a about a little over three years ago and it I and then I I didn't plan to be her caregiver. I planned to help her find a caregiver and That didn't happen and she struggled. We have something in California called IHSS in home services. I don't know if DC has that or other states do, but basically it's government funded where individuals who need home care get a allotted X amount of hours and the pay is peanuts, as you know. but it was it was a mom who was recovering from a stroke. with two children and my heart went out to her as being a mom with children. So we tried really hard to find someone for her. And I just happened to have time in my schedule to support her. And so I kind of help cared for her while we continued to look. So I I got certified through that program to help care for her, but a lot of what I did was helping her advocate for herself, right? That was a huge piece of my caretaking. I think we're told and taught that we're supposed to listen and just accept what doctors and professionals tell us. And something wasn't quite right with her situation. And so I advocated for her to ask the questions to her doctors and professionals who were caring for her. also her youngest son was failing to thrive as well. So she was navigating his care while I was navigating her care. and a huge piece of it was helping her know how to communicate, which words to use, what questions to ask. So I was really honored to be her caretaker for a short time. Marcia Lee: You know what, you talk about then how you feel into it, but but you also share with me that you are actually you know, caregiving is no one size fit all and everybody's situation is one thousand percent different, but you share with me that you actually paying for your parents' caregiving. You wanna talk a a little about that? Jane: not at this time, but I agreed with my siblings that I I will not be physically caring for my parents, but I will be contributing financially to their care. we have a little agreement with within the siblings that one of my sisters who has been handling a lot of their care that she will do the physical care and the rest of the siblings will contribute financially. Marcia Lee: that's good because you know what? And I've been talking to many people and it's always usually the one person in the family that that does all the good all all of the heavy lifting, you know, and it's also challenging if you if you are a caregiver but you live in a different state. And I'm sure that's more than the challenge to navigate. But for me for a personal story, my brother has dementia, his wife is bear bitten, she has cancer. And luckily for us, I live right in DC. My mom lives right over the bridge. my sister lives in Virginia My mom lives right over in Maryland, which is right in the DC area. But we've been finding challenges for us Jane. Because my mom just called me recently, she said, can you find out whether Medicare covers adult diapers? So you wanna chime in on that, Jane? Jane: Yes, that is such a a huge gap that I've seen Sometimes certain foods is not covered and I personally don't know how to remedy or have a solution to what is cared by insurance and providers. I think what needs to happen is caregivers need to have a seat at the table for when, you know, those decisions are made, what's covered and what's not covered, without having the input of caregivers a bare minimum if that is being covered by insurance and programs. Marcia Lee: Baby, it's been a challenge because my brother decides that he wants to change his number every month. So what I have done, so I can handle ever my sister and I can handle everything because right now I saw my brother yesterday and poor baby just getting like worse he just don't even remember one second to another so we've been navigating through that process as far as like getting them care You want to talk about that too. my sister doesn't have that same flexibility. people. And I allow her to pour into herself on Mondays. And like I tell people all the time, I say sometimes my job is not the best job, but it's not the worst job either because I've been at jobs where they it ain't flexible. So I'm a I'm able to like allow myself to take off, you know, a schedule things. So it can it could work with my work schedule. You wanna talk about that as well? Jane: I think that's a huge piece for caretakers who are caretakers basically full time and have, you know, a nine to five that they go to. And I think I feel like more so now, maybe not so much, you know, seven years ago, but I feel like more so now employers are open to, you know, the flexible schedules or there's the part of the benefits employers are offering is you know more time off in addition to the flexibility. I I think given a lot of remote work now employers should include as their benefits for caretakers that that flexibility for sure. And like you said, you have that flexibility. the majority of caretakers don't unfortunately. So that that's another conversation that needs to change within a lot of, you know, companies, you know, especially for employees who it's more so project-based sometimes and not necessarily ours. So thank you for bringing that up. Marcia Lee: it's my pleasure. But you know, again we talk I talk about that with my friends and colleagues and they say you're absolutely right and I say even if you try to like you say look for another job, like you say, where you can have that flexibility. But like I tell people all the time, Jane, if you haven't experienced it, you don't understand. Jane: A hundred percent. I wholeheartedly believe that. I think it's important as an employee you have those conversations with your employer before it happens so that there's a game plan, I think it's really important you the responsibility of the employee to have that conversation because we don't know what we don't know, right? Even though it's not within the policy, is there some way, Who else is a caretaker? Oftentimes employees don't want to share that they are because they don't want to be quote unquote punished or penalized for needing to take time off, caretaking is such a norm. If it's your child, your spouse, you know, your parent, your sibling, whatever. I think everyone is a caretaker. at some capacity or some level and we don't have the conversation enough. Marcia Lee: ago. I said, you know what, I cannot, you know, I cannot wait for things to happen and then my God, when I'm what am I going to do? So now I've handled all of that. Everything is lost, everybody has a digital copy on, you know, if I become incapacitated. And I think a lot of people don't want to have these conversations, Jane, because it's uncomfortable. Comfortable, you know anything dealing with money or wills or trust or power of attorneys, it's not a comfortable conversation that people don't want to have. And now I'm having this conversation Even my brother said, although he comes and goes, but that day, he said, We need to have a we need to have a physical bank. I'm like, Yes, because his his bank is digital, and I'm like, I need a physical location, so if I need to. tap in I can go. I'm on one of his accounts, but I need to be on his main account. And right now I tell people just trying to access the information because you know he's retired, his wife's retired. I have no information. I I cannot access anything right now. So I'm working on accessing things And DC does a lot More and they have a thing they have a program called Age in Place. So if you if it's shown that you have physical limitations. You know, they would make sure that that they provide the the tools that you need to age in place. one of my good friends, Monica, she's gonna be on a future episode. She takes care of her mother, who's legally blind now, and her parents, so she's over there three days a week. And So what I do, Jane, and you know what I do, I always share my resources. So I sent her a whole pile of information and she called me the other night, and I hadn't heard from Her in a while. She was like, I really appreciate everything you did. I said, What did I do? She said, All the information you provided, I was able to tap in and get everything my mother and father needed. And you know, I got really emotional. I said, That's my energy because it's really about you know what they say sharing is caring, that's real. I mean, I you know, Jane, I live by that. It's just we have to do that more because, like you said, Jane, what you what you know you know, and what you don't know, you don't know. And there's so many moving parts, and then you find out. Like you say, what different insurance covers and what they don't cover because I don't have my brother and sister law's plan. I don't really know what everything covers. You know what? So once I once I'm able to access OPM and my sister in law's retirement situation, I see what they make, I can get copies of their statements. And I say that's a whole that's a whole process. And then like you say, what's their account, what's their digital platform and all of that. So once I get the information I need when I become the whole power of attorney thing, I'm gonna And I think that conversation is not being had enough until it actually happens. It's like, my God, what is going on? You know, and who's gonna take care of them should something happen? Go ahead and chime in. Jane: a thank you for bringing up that point, and you're absolutely right. we live in a very reactive society that we don't do anything until it directly impacts us, and we it's too late, right? At that point, we're stressed, we're scrambling and whatever, and and that whole re you know, being reluctant. Of having the conversations. We just need to have it more often so that it's not so uncomfortable. And the best way to be prepared is to have the conversations and make plans before. I've I've seen it way too many times. Either family members pass or family members feel ill and everyone is scrambling and that stress, you know, can be prevented. So everything you're doing is so great. And you know, one of the things I feel like you do exceptionally well is that whole resource sharing. And I wish others can do the same. I believe, and I think I need to look for it, I believe there is some kind of program or app that helps caretakers chart and kind of organize records. So let me look at that for you if you don't have something similar to that. And because you are a very organized and detailed person, I'm sure that helps when you have to navigate care. I know other people don't have that skill set yet and it makes it twenty-seven times harder to navigate care. Marcia Lee: don't even st and then I wanna like chime in on the digital platform, baby. Don't even stop on the digital. Everything is digital. Everything is online. It's like Jesus. You know what? But I mean, I talk about that quite often. I talk about that quite often, especially with older Americans. Some people don't want to be on a digital platform. Like, period. They think it's like scamming, stealing, or whatever. And that and that's their entitlement. That's 100% their entitlement. But baby, when you're trying to access things through the federal government, everything is digital. Everything is no really like going in. There's no touchy feely. It's no like in-person thing. Because I know when I changed Jeffree's social security information, I had to physically go off his house because he had to scan for ID me. And a lot of people don't know if you get an ID me account, you have to digitally scan their face because of all the fraud that has been happening. skill me so for that I've been really realizing that okay this is a whole nother layer. It's like layers and layers and layers. And I'm telling people now and Jane a lot and what a lot of people don't talk about what if you are digitally what if you is just what if you what if you just low literacy like period Some people have really have low literacy skills like perviate and then they Jane: That's true, that's true. Marcia Lee: they don't have people to like help them tap in and get what they need. You do you understand what I'm saying? I think that part and I think That part is not talked about a lot. And that's the elephant in the room. Trust and believe, Jane. Every every room I go in, I talk about. I was talking about that last night at a at a town hall. And I said, You you gotta talk about. That's what we have to talk about. You have to what they say and and what's the term, Jane? You meet people where they are. Absolutely. Absolutely. You have to meet people where they are. You could go, you can chime in on that. Jane: hundred percent. yes, the reality is a lot of people are technically challenged and we need Marcia Lee: Yeah. Jane: to definitely account for that and that whole piece about meeting people where they're at. I always ask when I I f I'm involved in a situation, how do you learn best? And that's how I usually deliver the information. You know, like I I know I like to speak, teach, and learn a certain way. So I always ask, because I want my help to be helpful, right? Like I I don't want to assume I'm being helpful the way I am delivering information. So anytime I I come to a new situation, I assess the situation and always communicate with the person that I'm trying to help. How do you learn best? And that's how I deliver the information. That that piece about being illiterate and technically challenged is so real, you know? Like I think for people who are not that or never interacted with someone like that, they it it blows their mind, right? So we have to take a couple steps back and Marcia Lee: D Jane: Take a couple steps back and assess and see how we can tackle it in a very, you know, productive and efficient way. There's there's times I have to tell you, I I can see myself getting frustrated, not with the person, but the the system that is set up to support them is not helpful. That that's one of my big biggest challenges is that the systems and programs that are built. for the people are not including the people who it's built for at the table. So it's a whole bunch of people sitting around, this is what I think they need, instead of stepping back and saying, Hey, what do you need? I see this a lot in a lot of the work I do, depending on, you know, if it's for human trafficking, foster youth or any or veterans or anything. You have people making decisions for the programs and services that are being provided to the clients, but not including the clients at the building piece. And that I think is crucial for the program or systems to be effective. What do you think? Marcia Lee: one hundred percent. You know, it's funny, I was just having that conversation this week with a colleague and I said they build stuff and they don't have beta testers. Like you said, people are actually doing the work. I'm like, because they te because they're coming from a technical they're coming from a technical, a technical background, Jane. They are analytical. I'm not analytical. I'm I I learn by doing. You know, show me and I do. And I'm thinking, okay, hey, really have beta testers, you know, from different like you said, from different learning styles. And you know, see what see what works and see what doesn't work. And then you can maybe combine all the pieces together and then everybody could everybody can use it. Because I'm thinking like, case in point, caregiving too. I facilitated a a group a couple of months ago and I was with seniors that they changed the platform of how they pay their rent. Now they have to go online to pay their rent. It's digital. I'm like, here we go. Because I handle stuff. My mother, she's still she's not. ninety five she's still fabulous and got her mind and everything but they have a a rent platform and it's trash. I say who ni who Figure this out. I Ma, I ain't got the bandwidth no more. I said, Look, just go ahead and just drop them checks every month. Because even for me, Jane, I'm literate. Do you understand? And let's talk about because we are literate. And I'm thinking, you want people because what happened with my senior colleagues? One man wasn't paying his rent. He had been on time all the time. Somebody finally went to him and said, are you okay? He said, I don't know how to use this platform. And that goes the same with healthcare, Jane, because even with us navigating caregiving, you have to get on the healthcare portal. So that's a whole nother that's a whole nother Jane: Yes. Marcia Lee: that's a whole nother situation. You gotta know that you gotta be on you gotta be having access to the platform to access the services that you need. Jane: Right right there is what you just said, access. People don't have access, people aren't shown access, people aren't explained access, and that's like a big big killer of any anything. But when it comes to caretaking, not being able to have access is just awful. I wanted to touch on caretakers. And caring for the caretakers, or what I like to my friends like to say supporting the supporter, right? I am really fortunate and lucky that I have a a phenomenal network of friends who support a lot of the work that I do and and particularly one family, they're like, We can't do what you do, but we will absolutely support you. So they recharge, replenish, revitalize me so I can continue to do the work that I do. So I really want to talk about caretakers and stress the importance of them getting the care that they need. how do you Marcia? I know you take a lot care of a lot of people. How do you take care of yourself? Can you share some some things that you do that self care and to recharge your batteries. Marcia Lee: One hundred percent. So as you know when you see me post things, people who know me know I post stuff all the time but I post things that are good. I'm posting myself actually caring for myself. Like I really block out time for that because like everybody knows on Saturdays I'm at somebody's wellness activation because you know what? And And I take advantage of probably like 90% of the things. Even during the week, I do yoga. Auntie, you need to pull up at my yoga on Thursdays. my honorary niece Tierra, she started. A caregiver series. She wants to have caregivers pour into themselves. Jane: Mm. Marcia Lee: You know, you can just sit back and take care of yourself, do yoga, mindfulness, and journaling. I cannot mention everybody on this platform but you know from Zsameria to Tierra to Taura to Leslie to Brian to him to DC Parks and Recs they have a lot of and they do things like I say, if I really sat down and thought about it, I could almost do an activation every day at low or no cost. being outside with my community is really what's keeping me sane. One thou one hundred percent. Jane: I love that. Thank you for sharing that Self self-care looks different for everybody. Like you said, for you it's yoga and being outside and being with your community. Whatever it is, that whole time block, make your side make yourself a priority. I tell people all the time, I have two slots on my calendar that I time block, and I do not let anything. I protect that time. I have t every day to I have two slots on my calendar that nothing gets to override. And it's it's for me to just stop and pause. a lot of times I do nothing. I sit quietly in those two time blocks, but definitely I feel like time blocking helps and works for me, whatever it is. I really encourage caretakers to utilize that time and protect that time on their calendar because you know and a lot of peop other people know that if you don't take care of yourself, you can't take care of your person or your people or whoever it is that you're taking care of. So it's really important. we can't pour from empty cups and a lot of times we're expected to, and it's okay to s pause. and take a step back. Or the other thing that is really important that I want caretakers to know and hear, it's okay for you to ask for help. Marcia Lee: Dip d Jane: Right? Like, ask for help. You don't always have to be the person. You can't be everything to everyone. So I am learning how to receive help, Marcy. It's really hard. It's really hard when you're an empath like us. It's really hard to receive help and ask for help. personally for me, I've been disappointed more times than I can count, and people aren't reliable or dependable. So getting me to ask for help and receive help has definitely been a challenge, but also very rewarding. for me, it's been a part of my growth. is learning how to ask for help. Learning how to ask, I think was the big one, you know, saying specifically, not hey, I need help. Hey, could you do XYZ at this time on this day for this? You know, or and and Marcia Lee: You know for sure, yeah. Jane: someone else taught me that stop blocking your blessings, right? When you don't give a chance to someone for someone to help you or support you, you're blocking your your your blessings. And you're not giving them the opportunity to give back. So think about that. Like, yes, I think caretakers, as caretakers, we take on this huge amount of responsibility and we forget that we don't have to do it alone. Not only do we have our community, we have, you know, family and friends, we have a whole network of people. They may not be able to step in. and physically do the day-to-day, but they can take maybe little bits here and there. So allow others to help. Marcia Lee: You know, for sure, Jay, and I you know, it's funny that you mentioned that because I was just having that conversation I think yesterday with somebody and I got on next door, you know, to the community app and I'm like, Look, I said, Where can I get adult diapers at no cost? And immediately it was the responses were they were coming in. And I'm like Jane: I love Marcia Lee: I said, I really appreciate you. So it was a young lady who reached out to me and she said, I'ma get some from my church and then she she texted me when they were Really she said, Well, I don't live that far from you because I looked at I said, yeah, you live real close. So I went over her house, she has two big boxes of adult diapers. And I'm thinking, and she said, I'm starting this for my church. So when I get a lot, I would text you and you could come and get them. And some people they would tell me what they had. And I said, No, I can't use that particular kind. But I actually responded to everybody. And like I tell people, everybody who knows me, Jane, my pride is not in my wallet. Jane: Ha ha Marcia Lee: Babe, my pride is not in my wallet. I I I don't Hello. Like period. My pride is not in my wallet. I don't like you say I raise my hand. And I know people who are caretakers who really don't really say anything. And I'm like, why are you not saying anything? They're not saying anything. And I'm like, you know what? And I tell people all the time. But I wanna say what a colleague of mine said. I was at a dementia screening a few months ago. And he said One thing about dementia, he said what people are not really explaining to people. He said dementia is like any other thing that happens to your body. He said you break your leg, you break your arm or whatever. He said but dementia is your brain is broke. Yeah, that part. Then that way it takes to me, it takes away the stigma of saying, you know, my relative, my loved one or somebody I know has dementia because it's not their fault and they didn't ask for it. And that's what I tell people. I said they did not ask this is this is this is a sorority or a fraternity. They did not ask to join Jane: Thank you, Mercier, for talking about mental illnesses, right? The things that you can't see. So sometimes it's hard to tackle those things when they're not physically, you know, visible. me I feel like mental wellness and mental illness is a whole different other can of worms that we can dive into at a at a later time. But that whole piece about caretakers not asking for help. I think we need to break the stigma first and have these conversations because I think as a caretaker, you're you've been given this responsibility and that people expect you, just expect you off the bat to know exactly what to do, how to do it, where to get XYZ. And you are very much like me. We resource share the Hell out of everything because we know people aren't gonna ask for help. So anytime you know we have a resource, we're like, look, we'll put it out there. That way it gives the caretakers who aren't comfortable raising their hand, it it gives them permission to be like, okay, so like everything, we just have to keep having the conversations. and create that understanding and compassion. Marcia Lee: And for sure. And then you you said something earlier about how people learn. And I have to like I tell people all the time, I know with I w if I'm with certain groups, because I have to give the information a certain way. And I know older Americans, you have to give them things in bicep portions. You cannot overwhelm people with a whole bunch of whole bunch a Jane: A hundred percent. Marcia Lee: whole bunch of anything. You know you know what I mean? It's like just give a little teeny bit, let them let let let that marinate resonate. Yeah, Jane: Absorb, mm-hmm. Marcia Lee: that part. Let them take that in. Because sometimes, like you said, Jane, you have to do some people multiple times because how they learn how and how they process and receive information are two different things and not one the same. Jane: Yes, bite-sized digestible. I've learned that to use that strategy a lot more so when I do do the check-in, hey, how do you best learn? and I found that breaking things down in chunks is way more effective. because I I sometimes get really excited when I find resources. I'm like, but you know One through 17, but then I have to pause. I've learned to pause the past couple years. Theodore has helped me learn to pause. Like, wait a minute, because when you pause, because sometimes you know, I I'm just kind of all over the place. I get really excited, really passionate about something, and I just want to share, share, share, share. But when I over share, it overwhelms people. So I have to pause, step back, assess, and then do like what you said. Give the bite-sized pieces. Here's, you know, one or one, two, three, depending on the person, depending on the group, depending on the situation. And that, because again, I'm gonna go back to you want help to be helpful, right? You want help to be helpful to the person, to whatever it is. And I have to I have to stop. And be introspective. Am I being helpful? Because Marcia Lee: He Jane: I think I like to think that I'm being helpful, but am I actually being helpful to the person? Right? Are they receiving it, processing it, and utilizing it? The worst thing to do is to give someone resources and they do nothing with it because one, they're under overwhelmed, they don't understand, or they don't know how to access. So Thank you for bringing up the the bite size digestible piece. It's it's it's it's Marcia Lee: Yeah, you know. Jane: it's paramount, I have to say. Anytime you're trying to be helpful, that whole bite size analogy strategy is really, really crucial. Marcia Lee: Yes, you know, it's funny that you said that because I was told that recently by my by my life coach founder, Dr. Bruce Purnell He said, Mama Mama said, really, appreciate what you what you send us. Don't think we don't appreciate because I know you talk about that. He said, but he did say nicely. Sometimes, like you said, it could be a bit much. So now I just I just send things out maybe like once or twice a week now, instead of like once or twice a day. You know what I mean? So I have cut all the way back. And like you said, Jay, everybody is not in the same place with that. And I have to Remember that too, and then I used to get frustrated. I said, Y'all take advantage of anything. I'm gonna stop posting altogether. You know, I was really into my feelings about that because I said, Dr. Bruce, I just want people to be well and I want them to know that there are resources that they can tap into that they were unaware of. Jane: A hundred percent thank you for bringing that up that you just want people to be well and that you get overly passionate. But we have to remember, Marcia Lee: Hehehe Jane: and this is my problem too, because I will share resources and then you know a week later it's you didn't take advantage and and and then I take it personal, but then I have to remember wait, you know. People are successful at the rate of their understanding. So I might again for me, anytime I am involved in any kind of situation, assess, communicate. There's a veteran that was really struggling. So I asked her what it is that she needed, how she wanted the information, how much did she want. And it's the checking in and then checking back. I have a whole system. The check in and the checking back is super important. because sometimes maybe you gave that resource. the other thing I will not do is do blind referrals. I will not I learned my lesson the really hard way doing a line blind referral. I I I didn't want to, but I was out of state and someone needed it was time sensitive. So I was like, you know what? This person was in my group for this and they shared blah blah blah blah. And I I come back and I found out that person was not taken care of. So I will absolutely not do a blind referral. So I I take extra steps to connect with whatever that resource is, find the name of the person, and check what they are currently offering. So I I overshare the information. Let's just say, Marcia, you needed to know, you know, a a food resource, right? I'm gonna, I'm not just gonna be like, hey, call XYZ. I'm gonna be like, hey, Marcia, this is the contact of the the organization. This is the person that you can connect with. This is their phone number, their email, their operational hours, and this. Is the types of services you can get from this person. So I try to make it I don't want to say as easy as possible, but as for them to understand because someone navigating resources when they're already struggling is so so hard. People not answering the phone, people not replying to emails, right? That is so heartbreaking. That is so you feel defeated. So I try to go the extra step and confirm and check the resource before I share. I know it's not possible to do the extra step, but when possible I do. I do check resources to make sure one, that person is still there. If not, who Marcia Lee: For sure one. Jane: else who took their place? and and find kind of what I like to say is a trusted partner. in there. 'Cause there there is I wanna say there is a lot of resources that aren't being utilized just because people one don't know or don't have access. Marcia Lee: But as we wind down, Jane: I think most importantly, as caregivers, show ourselves the same grace and kindness that we give others, first and foremost, and remember that we are doing the best with what we have when we're caring for others. We really are. and don't take things personal, you know, if you're Taking care of someone, they're yelling at you, maybe throwing something at you. Remember they're hurting, they're struggling, and none of it's personal and that it's okay to ask for help and really tap into your network and your community. because you know, it it really does take a village to care for each other. Marcia Lee: You know, for sure. Thank you so much, Jane. How can people get connected with you? Jane: People can connect with me on LinkedIn. And if I don't know the answer, I will certainly find someone who does. I'm I'm really good at networking and connecting people. I'm very fortunate of having a really robust network of people who wanna help and do good and share resources. Marcia Lee: I like to thank Jane so much for coming on today. And both of our information will be in the show notes. You can always reach out to me, reach out to Jane. And I really appreciate the time, Jane, that we spent. It was a lot of good information. And you know, both of us are overpassionate. I think at times my mother said, You too overpassionate. I'm not overpassionate. I just want people to know. I want people to be well and just want people to be aware of things that are really affecting us each and every day so on that note until next time everybody stay fabulous be well and thank you Jane: Thank you.