Latest / Nonprofit411 Podcast / Corporate Partnerships: Dan Drucker on Moving Past Sponsorships
Transcript
- In-Person: Hello and welcome to this week's podcast. Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: Hello and welcome to this week's podcast, In-Person: Nonprofit 411 podcast. This is Sarah. I'm your host. And I'm excited to be joined today by Dan Drucker, founder of Philanthropy Fuel. Dan helps small and mid-sized nonprofits build corporate partnerships that go past the sponsorship form. He spent more than 35 years on the corporate side of the table, leading B2B sales and marketing. Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: Nonprofit 411 Podcast. This is Sarah. I'm your host, and I'm excited to be joined today by Dan Drucker, founder of Philanthropy Fuel. Dan helps small and mid-sized nonprofits build corporate partnerships that go past the sponsorship form. He spent more than 35 years on the corporate side of the table, leading B2B sales and marketing. In-Person: And he started Philanthropy Fuel in 2024, and he writes the Fuel Tank, a weekly newsletter for nonprofit leaders. Welcome, Dan. Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: And he started Philanthropy Fuel in twenty twenty four and he writes the Fuel Tank, a weekly newsletter for nonprofit leaders. Welcome, Dan. Dan Drucker: thank you for having me, sir. I'm really looking forward to this conversation. In-Person: Yes, I am too. I love to talk about corporate partnerships because I think that they're underutilized in our sector. And actually I've seen it from both sides. Organizations really wanting to get involved in the community, like or eight businesses wanting to get involved in the community and them not knowing how, and nonprofits wanting to find partners and them also not knowing how. So so excited to talk about it. But before we get started, I Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: Yes, I am too. I love to talk about corporate partnerships because I think that they're underutilized in our sector. And actually I've seen it from both sides. Organizations really wanting to get involved in the community, like or eight businesses wanting to get involved in the community and them not knowing how, and nonprofits wanting to find partners and them also not knowing how. So so excited to talk about it. But before we get started I wanna ask you my favorite question which is In-Person: want to ask you my favorite question, which is What is your favorite hobby? Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: what is your favorite hobby? Dan Drucker: that's an easy one right now. It's photography. So I had spent, you know, 35 years, as you mentioned, in corporate the last whatever, 20 or so with Canon running their sales and marketing for the US and for a division of theirs. And they were nice enough on my retirement at the beginning of twenty twenty four to give me a a brand new can Canon camera on my way out and a kit. and I'd already started getting involved, but one of the things I wanted to do with some extra time and spend more time outside in nature and walking around. And I've gotten very, very much into photography. And while I thought I would always do cool stuff like landscapes and architecture and all that, my wife and I have become birders, as so many people end up doing, because they're just fascinating. So we just hunt for like new places to go and explore and and and you know find the nature. But I actually I I love photography because it's it makes you Really look around, even when you don't have your camera, you're kinda looking around as you're walking and understanding, you know, different things and and really taking notice of things that you might not have noticed before. So that is by far my my favorite hobby right now. In-Person: Yeah, I agree. I did photography for a while and it makes you pay attention because you're looking for the right shots. And I love that you said you're bird watching. I was just reading an article the other day that said bird watchers have healthier brains and they're not sure why, but they think it's because you're always looking for the details in the trees. And so I was like, that's really interesting. Yeah. Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: Yeah, I agree. I did photography for a while and it makes you pay attention because you're looking for the right shots. And I love that you said you're bird watching. I was just reading an article the other day that said bird watchers have healthier brains and they're not sure why, but they think it's because you're always looking for the details in the trees. And so I was like, that's really interesting. Yeah. Dan Drucker: Yeah. You're looking and you're listening. We're starting to get pretty good at bird calls and things like that. And we've got the the app, the Marlin app that identifies the bird. So even when we're just walking the dog, it's kinda like, What's that? What was that sound? What was that? So you definitely are are more in tune with your surroundings. In-Person: Yeah, I love that. My husband is he's a bug he takes pictures of bugs and I am always shocked at what he sees. I'm like, how do you even see that? It doesn't even cross my path. Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: Yeah, I love that. My husband is he's a bug he takes pictures of bugs and I am always shocked at what he sees. I'm like, how do you even see that? It doesn't even cross my path Dan Drucker: I love doing that too. Yeah, macro photography of bugs is fascinating. You just have no idea. Like there's a whole community down there in the ground and on flowers and stuff that we are just not aware of. In-Person: Yeah, yeah. So great. I love that. Well let's get into what your expertise is here and that is talking about corporate partnerships. So tell me a little bit about your history and how you you know, what you've done and how that led you to Philanthropy Fuel. Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: Yeah, yeah. So great. I love that. Well let's get into what your expertise is here and that is talking about corporate partnerships. So tell me a little bit about your history and how you you know what you've done and how that led you to Philanthropy Fuel. Dan Drucker: Yeah, so you know, having spent all that time in sales and marketing on the B2B side, I, you know, my career was really spent watching and understanding and learning how decisions are made, both internally in my own, you know, companies I work for, but more importantly, for prospects and clients. You know, what was important to them? How did I communicate that? How did we translate what was going on in our world in terms of our services, our offerings, to something that's going to matter to them and and their impact? And so when I retired from corporate I knew besides the things I wanted to do personally that I wanted to start something that would be working with people who are making an impact on on social good. And so obviously the nonprofit space made a lot of a lot of sense. I didn't have any history there. I had some people that I knew and some relatives that had been in that space that kind of gave me gentle nudges towards you know supporting the the the nonprofit space. And I just started kind of talking to people, networking, seeing what was important, and you know. When I launched Philanthropy Fuel at the beginning, it was really just I thought I was going to be teaching fundraising and development teams about business development skills that I knew would translate well from the corporate B2B world to the fundraising world. And I did a little of that at the beginning, but as I kept having conversations, what I really learned was there was this gap. And you got all these companies, and you mentioned it, you got all these companies out there that that do want to do Good and get involved in their community and get involved in social change. And I think that's actually increased over time, even in these couple of years that I've been in it. But they're almost like in a different world from the nonprofits, and they don't speak the same language. So I view my role almost as helping nonprofits, first of all, understand their own value because they're so heads down in the work that they don't understand all these wonderful assets that they have that they can offer these partnerships. And a lot of times. They come at it almost from a deficit perspective. Like, you know, Mr. Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: Yeah. Dan Drucker: and Mrs. Big Corporation, if you would just, you know, buy a table at our gala, that would be wonderful. We'd be forever grateful. Versus, hey, we've got audience reach, we've got impact stories, we've got research on the ground because we've been living in these communities. We've got connections, we've got, we've got joint stories we could tell. They've got so much to bring. But I feel my role is to kind of help them translate that impact that they already have. Into business relevance so that the businesses can understand it. Because you got two sides that probably want to help each other but don't know how to do that. And they don't have the same goals. Everybody thinks, you have to have the same goals. For profit and nonprofit are not going to have the same goals, but they can each help the other make progress towards what's important to them, towards their goals. And that's that's what I really found. That kind of that matchmaking has been kind of fun. And that's that's what I enjoy doing. In-Person: Yeah, I really love that. My I Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: Yeah, I really love that. My I In-Person: started exploring this topic a couple years ago because my cousin has she's only ever worked for large online organizations. So she's currently working for Amazon. She was with Whole Foods before they merged with Amazon, and then she's worked with several others. And she said our organization has money that they really want to invest in the communities, and they can't find the people on the ground to actually Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: started exploring this topic a couple years ago because my cousin has she's only ever worked for large online organizations. So she's currently working for Amazon. She was with Whole Foods before they merged with Amazon. and then she's worked with several others. And she said our organization has money that they really want to invest in the communities and they can't find the people on the ground to In-Person: actually have those conversations about meaningful investment. And so Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: actually have those conversations about meaningful investment. And so we explored like what was out there to help make these matches because I I don't think that each each of the sectors realize like who to go to. They don't know who to go to, you know, they're they're kind of lost. So where do you start when you're thinking about partnerships? In-Person: we explored like what was out there to help make these matches because I I don't think that each each of the sectors realize like who to go to. They don't know who to go to, you know, they're they're kind of lost. So where do you start when you're thinking about partnerships? Dan Drucker: It's a great question. And that's that's the biggest thing. So, you know, when you're first talking to the nonprofit, first thing is you start looking introspectively. Okay, so what is your value? Let's let's get out of the weeds about what you need or that you've got an event coming in. What is the value you bring in a partnership? And I don't want nonprofits to think they have to reinvent, they do not have to change their mission, their impact, their programs. They already have the stuff. But what would translate well to a corporate partnership? And then when you start thinking about that, it's like, okay, so what's important? To the corporate side from what you do. And then you start doing the research based on that. And you're looking for the right people. And it's not necessarily one group. So the tendency used to be: let's look for the CSR, the corporate social responsibility officer in the corporation. And that may be the person, but things like employee engagement have to me risen to the top of what's important to businesses these days. They're in a fight for talent to attract it, to keep it, to get people motivated. Especially as younger generations start coming up through the workforce, that's more and more important to them to work for businesses that are socially, you know, focused on real social impact. So it might come from an HR person, it might be an employee experience leader, it might be marketing if you're talking about joint adverse advocacy, joint PR, things like that. It could be an executive, it could be the head of volunteer employee volunteer services. There are so many different places that you could go. So first you have to understand what your value is, what's going to be important to that particular business, and then you go for the look for the right person. It's kind of like detective work, and I kind of enjoy it. I kinda I don't know if I nerd In-Person: Ha ha ha. Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: Mm-hmm. Dan Drucker: out on a little bit. And so, you know, a lot of the engagements I get involved in, I will do that upfront research. After we've determined what the value proposition is, look for the right companies. And it's not, it's not always the biggest companies in the area, you know, those aren't always the ones, especially since So many others are fighting for their attention. Sometimes it's a smaller business, a grassroots business, someone down the block for you. It could be a large business that has a local presence, but you've got to establish the relationship with that local presence, not with some CSR officer sitting in the corporate headquarters, you know, six states over. So doing that research, finding the right person, and then finding getting information these days is very easy. You know, we all know about AI and it's been a little scary the la last few days, some of the reports that have come out. But You can find the press releases, the website mentions, the articles about these corporate leaders talking about what's important to their employees, what kind of programs they're they're putting in place, what their goals are for the year. And you can match that to the value that you've translated from the nonprofit, and then start looking at places like LinkedIn on how to reach out and how to craft the perfect message. So that's what I help a lot with. It's it's what's your value? Let's do the research on what companies actually make sense. Let's find the right people and let's craft the right message. And the whole goal is not to send a pitch, not to send a sponsorship deck. Let's just get a conversation going. You know, let's talk about something. Let's talk about a volunteer event. Let's talk about, you know, maybe just having your employees use their social media accounts to spread the word or something like that. Let's start small and then build it from there. In-Person: Yeah, so I have a couple of things here. One, I was director of I was human resource director for an organization. We had a hundred and fifty employees, and I learned in that position that human resources has a ton of interest in this type of opportunity. Even so in in my role, you know, I brought in the resources sometimes that my employees might need, right? Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: Yeah, so I have a couple of things here. One, I was director of I was h human resource director for an organization. We had a hundred and fifty employees and I learned in that position that human resources has a ton of interest in this type of opportunity. Even so, in in my role, you know, I brought in the resources sometimes that my employees might need, right? In-Person: and so like that's a way that you know I could engage the other. Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: and so like that's a way that, you know, I could engage. The other In-Person: One was that we would help the organizations just kind of get their message out to our employees so that the employees could know of opportunities to engage in the community, right? And and I do see like, and that was in a very rural community, and we were the largest employer in that community. So, you know, we might have been targeted for a lot of a lot of sponsorships, Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: one was that we would help the organizations just kind of get their message out to our employees so that the employees could know of opportunities to engage in the community, right? And and I do see like and that was in a very rural community and we were the largest employer in that community. So, you know, we might have been targeted for a lot of a lot of sponsorships. In-Person: though I don't really feel like we were. As I remember back, I don't think. Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: Though I don't really feel like we were. As I as I remember back, I don't think we were. but there were so many ways that we wanted to get to know. And if you're an outside administrator, so you're not from the community in a rural place, th it's such a great opportunity to get to know people n in your community, you know. so that's just an observation. But you said a couple things I wanna a actually follow up on. So you In-Person: we were. but there were so many ways that we wanted to get to know. And if you're an outside administrator, so you're not from the community in a rural place, it's such a great opportunity to get to know people in your community, you know. so that's just an observation. But you said a couple things I want to actually follow up on. So you you keep saying you need to know your value and you need to be able to express that value. Can you give some examples of what that what that value looks like Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: You keep saying you need to know your value and you need to be able to express that value. Can you give some examples of what that what that value looks like? In-Person: Like if I'm a nonprofit professional, how do I know what type of value would be of interest to a business? Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: Like if I'm a non profit professional, how do I know what type of value would be of interest to a business? Dan Drucker: Yeah, so I I love the question. So I have something called the translation test and it's super sophisticated. Anytime you're thinking about your messaging or your kind of your internal phrasing, just ask yourself, so what? So a couple of just more generic examples, you know. Nonprofits like to talk about what they've done. They like to put data behind them. And I understand that. So, you know, an organization will say something like, This year we planted 10,000 trees. You know, and and that's great. And and even if you're talking to a business, they'll say, Hey, great job. And maybe they'll ask, you know, what does it cost per tree? And whatever, if it's twenty-five dollars per tree, great. We'll give you a thousand dollars. You can plant forty trees if my math was right there. and that's it. And that's where the partnership ends. And you know, that's that's a sponsorship or a gift, and those are great. I'm not, you know, don't look a gift horse in mouth, but that's not gonna be sustainable in terms of really growing your organization and changing your trajectory. But if that same Kind of meaningful impact statement was looked at from the company's perspective, then you translate it to something like, and again, this is fairly generic, but you know, we can help a company demonstrate an authentic commitment to environmental stewardship while also creating hands-on volunteer experiences for their employees. Now you got something that somebody on the other side is sitting back and said, huh, tell me more about those volunteer experiences. How my, how can my how can my employees get involved in this? Because the environment is very important. To the group of employees we've got working here. So, you know, if you think about something like that, nothing about their mission changed, their impact didn't change, their programs didn't change. You just keep asking the so what is really so what does this make possible for the person sitting on the receiving end of the message, the person sitting on the other edge of the table? I'll give you another example with my own animal shelter that I volunteer at. We love to talk about, I know the number called in 2025. We put 267 dogs in their forever home, which is amazing. It's a great number. It's it's several a week. But again, if you're talking to a company, a local business, they're gonna say that's awesome. Maybe there's a donation of goods or services. We always need paper towels. and and but if you start talking to them about their employees and their employees' families' volunteer opportunities, community visibility, joint PR campaigns, maybe even taken further than just getting dogs in homes and what about sponsoring education in schools as far as animal care and let's let's attack the actual problem instead of just, you know, getting getting stray dogs into the shelter and getting them homes. How do we attack the problem from the beginning? So there's so much to get them involved in when you take it past just what you do kind of with that internal speak. So those are just a couple of kind of basic examples of how you could translate your value into business relevance in terms that that that gonna make su sense to the company. In-Person: Yeah, I like that that it's a simple test. I do think that sometimes it would be helpful to have guidance on that because you're unfamiliar with sorry. You're unfamiliar with perhaps what's important to the corporate side, right? so okay, so Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: Yeah, I like that that it's a simple test. I do think that sometimes it would be helpful to have guidance on that because you're unfamiliar with I'm sorry. You're unfamiliar with perhaps what's important to the corporate side, right? so okay, so In-Person: If you wanted to find someone in your community to help you with that translation, who would you recommend helping? I mean, obviously you do for nonprofits, but let's say we want to find some partners and we want to start having those conversations, what do we need to, how do we approach the corporation to find out what they're interested in? Or, you know, you mentioned AI and doing research. What types of information should we research? Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: If you wanted to find someone in your community to help you with that translation, who would you recommend helping? I mean, obviously you do you for nonprofits, but let's say we want to find some partners and we want to start having those conversations, what do we need to, how do we approach the corporation to find out what they're interested in? Or, you know, you've mentioned AI and doing research. What types of information should we research? Dan Drucker: So the you know, kind of the prompts I'm using is when I do research on behalf of my clients is is really it's it's it's what you would think. So you're putting in what your values, anything you can add about your own organization that you're comfortable putting out there on AI, you know, any kind of campaigns you've done in the past, sponsorships you've had. Now sponsorships and partnerships are very different, but still the sponsorships will help you know, kind of paint that picture of the types of businesses that have been attracted to you. By the way. Sponsors are probably your first stop. They may have only been sponsors. They may only be buying every year, you know, the the 17th T sign on your golf outing or whatever, or contributing things for your auction, but they already believe in your cause. You already know people there. So that should be your first step. as well as any kind of vendors that are providing you things. You know, if you've got a if you're a mid-sized nonprofit and you've got fifteen printers or whatever sitting that are coming from the local Staples, you know, go talk to the local staples manager, whatever it might be. So I would start with relationships you already have. Obviously, there's your volunteers who've kind of got their ear to the ground out there. There's your volunteers, there's your your your donors, there's your board, people who know people and companies that would know deeper down what's important to those businesses. So those are really good places to start. But when you're doing the research, so you're putting everything about this kind of value you think you bring to the table, your programs. And you're looking for information on organizations, you'll give them a geographic area if that's important to you, that have shown some kind of propensity to support causes like that or to be pushing employee engagement opportunities, to be pushing volunteerism, whatever it is. And then you're not going to just take AI's word for it. You want the source because not only has it checkpoint, because we know it can sometimes hallucinate, I guess is the word people are using, but more importantly. You want to read those articles, those press releases, those interviews with the people at the company to find out who they are, what they're really thinking, and then that's who you want to reach out to. I also not I'm not afraid to just reach out to basically anyone at the organization. Explain what I'm trying to do. Say, I know you're not the right person, but I found your name on LinkedIn. Could you point me in the right direction? You know, and and most people are willing to say, Hell yeah, the head of you know, employee Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: Yeah. Yeah. Dan Drucker: engagement experiences is, you know, Jane Smith, and and you know, you can Find her on LinkedIn or something like that. So, you know, just start the conversations, is really, and then talk to them. Not everybody's going to be the right match. not everybody's the right time for the right, you know, for the right situation. It may be that they believe in your cause, but they're focused on something else for the year. So those are the kind of things you want to find out. Just the more conversations you can have, the more warm conversations you can have being kind of introduced by someone else, the better it is. In-Person: Yeah. I'll tell you, I so when I started working at a university when I was right out of college, I had two jobs. I was a grant writer and I was the corporate partnership person and they didn't have a strong corporate partnership program at all. And I didn't know what to do, so here I I was like, Okay, I wanna have an event. I wanna have an event Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: Yeah. I'll tell you, I so when I started working at a university when I was right out of college, I had two jobs. I was a grant writer and I was the corporate partnership person and they didn't have a strong corporate partnership program at all. And I didn't know what to do, so here I I was like, Okay, I wanna have an event. I wanna have an event. In-Person: and I don't wanna invite all of these businesses to our organization and I I remember Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: And I don't want to invite all of these businesses to our organization. And I I remember In-Person: I just actually at that time the Chamber of Commerce directory was printed and so like I literally called everybody on the chamber list. I just called them and I said, Hey, I'd like you to come to our organization. And we were at university, but people didn't know that we existed in the community, right? We always hear like best keep kept secret. And so Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: I just actually at that time the Chamber of Commerce directory was printed. And so like I literally called everybody on the chamber list. I just called them and I said, Hey, I'd like you to come to our organization. And we were at university, but people didn't know that we existed in the community, right? We always hear like best keep kept secret. And so I I love that you know you're like just In-Person: I I love that you know you're like just find their name. So finding a name is your an important first step you identify and then c reach out and contact them and so like it seems easy. Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: Find their name. So finding a name is your an important first step you identify and then c reach out and contact them. And so like it seems easy. In-Person: If you're in a rural community, many of the organizations I work with are in rural communities. How do you approach reaching to organizations beyond your region? You know, you mentioned in the region, but I think that sometimes they really need to reach beyond their region. And Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: If you're in a rural community, many of the organizations I work with are in rural communities. How do you approach reaching to organizations beyond your region? You know, you mentioned in the region, but I think that sometimes they really need to reach beyond their region and In-Person: do you have recommendations on how best to like I the alignment is clearly really important, but I think that there's a big hesitation to reach beyond your region when we're thinking about corporate partners. Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: Do you have recommendations on how best to like I the alignment is clearly really important, but I think that there's a big hesitation to reach beyond your region when we're thinking about corporate partners. In-Person: How do you speak to that? Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: How do you speak to that? Dan Drucker: Yeah, I think it's a great question. I think it's then you're looking less on geographic and much more on alignment with cause. And again, it doesn't have to be that, you know, let's just say you're working with underprivileged kids, you know, on some kind of education initiative in a rural region. It doesn't have to be that somebody's sponsored or partnered on that exact thing. It's just gotta be you gotta find those organizations that are A more worldly, so they're not just focused on their own backyard, because that's imp that's important. If it, you know, a lot of them you will reach out to and say, This is great, but we've got a nonprofit right down the block from us, and we're going to support them. So the ones that tend to be a little bit more geographically agnostic and are willing to do that, and you can find that easily. And then the ones that again have gotten their employees and and just their their kind of their own being, their visibility involved in causes. that are so supporting kids. And you want to look for maybe brands that are focused on how do they lift up kids, how do they lift up neighborhoods. And and you see it because if you can link into their branding, that's the strongest thing. You know, it's great to talk about CSR and all this stuff. But if you've got organizations like I mentioned before the 10,000 trees, well if you start reaching to an organization like Patagonia or REI that are really focused on environmental issues and and and you know what they can do. Those are really good conversations. And because again, your goal is not to push them on some kind of proposal that you've already put together or sponsorship package. It's just to have a conversation. It's just really a an easier point of entry to say, hey, we've got some programs, they may be of interest. Can we just talk through whether there's any kind of match, or at least maybe you can point me in the right direction? That's what you're trying to do. So you're trying to find that it think of like a Venn diagram. You've got all your value. They've got their goals, but somewhere in the middle, there might be this this common point. And that's that's what you really want to hit on. So I do think there's a lot of organizations out there that will support rural, you know, grassroots type of movements that are not in their geography. but there are some that really are looking to support the ones that are kind of in their own neighborhood. So you gotta you gotta be able to figure out the difference. In-Person: Yeah, yeah. I I love that. I wanna revisit something that you said just because I I think it's so important for us to definitely talk about and you you talked about sponsorships versus partnerships. And I do think that so many organizations it's it's almost like this automatic switch in their head. As soon as you say corporate partnerships, what they think you mean is a sponsorship. Do you feel like that's true? Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: Yeah. Yeah. I I love that. I wanna revisit something that you said just because I I think it's so important for us to definitely talk about and you you talked about sponsorships versus partnerships. And I do think that so many organizations it's it's almost like this automatic switch in their head. As soon as you say corporate partnerships, what they think you mean is a sponsorship. Do you feel like that's true? Dan Drucker: Mm-hmm. it's it's beyond truzaire. It's it's a fallback. In-Person: Okay. Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: Okay. Dan Drucker: It's even true when I'm working with a client for for it could be for a month, or a friend that I'm helping, you know, in the in this sector for months or even years, and we've talked about everything I'm talking to you about, and still, you know, we'll say, okay, what you do? And they'll be like, well, you know, maybe we could get them to buy a table at the gala or something like that, or maybe we could get them to sponsor this campaign. And it's a fallback in the nonprofit sector because quite frankly, it's been the way it's been done and it's been successful. And sponsorships. Don't get me wrong, they absolutely positively have their place. If you're doing events, if you're doing campaigns, if you're looking for supplies, whether it's you know school supplies to stuff backpacks for back-to-school programs, things like that, by all means get businesses to participate and hopefully to foot the whole bill. That that just makes sense. But those aren't partnerships. Those are what I call, that's what keeps nonprofits living kind of paycheck to paycheck. You get the money for the program, you pay for the program, you move on to the next one. But you're never getting ahead. You're never getting sustainable. And with what we're going through today, with just the changing environment, especially here in the US, the competition, you know, some loss of of federal funds and things like that. I feel like that paycheck to paycheck is going to become unsustainable for a lot of small nonprofits, especially over the next, I want to say a couple of years, but it may be as much as as quick as even in the next year. I think it's gonna be hard for some of them to survive. Unless you build some other types of it's not just other types of revenue streams, it's these corporate partnerships. Now, to me, the biggest difference between a sponsorship and a partnership is commitment. You know, I call it commitment ship. In-Person: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Dan Drucker: because it can be so much more than money. Funding is, of course, going to be part of it, but if you think about what they can do, advocacy, you think about a company that's got a hundred employees, even 50 employees versus your small little founder led nonprofit. And how many people they can reach in their own networks to spread the word about your nonprofit. You know, if there needs to be advocacy in terms of with with local governments, they may have those connections. if there needs to be volunteering beyond, you know, again, everybody starts to think of employee engagement as volunteer Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: Right. Dan Drucker: days. And when I've talked to a lot of nonprofit leaders, sometimes they're more hassle than benefit because you get a bunch of people who aren't familiar with what you're doing and you know they all have a good time and it's good PR, but do they really get anything? But one of the things that's really ignored is what is skills-based volunteering. You've got people in companies with Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: Yeah. Dan Drucker: incredible skill sets. One of my favorite stories, I think it's Los Alamos Los Alamos labs in New Mexico, they have dedicated like twenty of their scientists To work with three or four nonprofits each year on things like food insecurity and and and you know family issues and homelessness, and work with these nonprofits to really look at their data and how they can gather better better data, use their data better, better, how to be more effective in what they're doing, who they're serving. So they're doing joint problem solving. So this is a company, this is what this is what they do, right? For a living, they're scientists. So they're not doing anything that they don't usually do, but they're using it to help these causes. It's obviously great for the nonprofits that are getting this expertise that they could never afford and never have access to. And for the the organization, you know, the company, they're getting employee engagement, they're getting visibility, and they're solving problems together. So people don't even think about that. I had a conversation last year just because I had connected with this wonderful woman on LinkedIn and she was the head of employee volunteerism at Goldman Sachs, right? A big investment bank here in New York. I was just talking to her about what she does and what she does. And then, you know, it it a light bulb went off my head. And I was like, wait, do your financial experts do financial literacy workshops in like underfunded communities? She's like, yeah, absolutely. That's one of the biggest things we do. And I happen to working with a a health system, a hospital system in an underfunded community here locally. And you know, the light bulb went off, and I got the two to live together. And and and that's how those things work. So there's so much more that can be done. Partnership is so much deeper and different. And I really think when they can help you both internally in terms of your own the the not building up the infrastructure and the expertise in the nonprofit, as well as helping with solutions and spreading the word and funding, that's so much more than just you know doing an annual gift or an annual sponsorship. And I think that can be the key for sustainability. And if you think about it, if you're a small nonprofit, you don't need 10 corporate partnerships. One may change the trajectory of your whole organization. Two will In-Person: Yeah. Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: Yeah. Dan Drucker: two certainly will. So I think you know, it doesn't have to be this big scary thing. And it doesn't have to happen in one fell swoop. Start with an employee engagement little pilot and build you get the employees excited, you're probably gonna get their leadership excited, and it'll build from there. It doesn't all have to happen at once. So I do think there's a huge difference between partnerships and sponsorships. I think both have their place, but you are so one hundred percent on. It it shifts back to sponsorship at at the drop of a hat. It's just it's just cause it's the In-Person: Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha. Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: Ha ha ha. Dan Drucker: way it's always been done. And it's been successful to a degree. In-Person: Yeah, though I love what you're talking about when you talk about resource sharing, because I do see that resource sharing can be, you're right, monumental for a nonprofit. all the resources that you're talking about. I think research is one that you know, I've seen really successfully. I used to work at university, so and then I worked in healthcare. so the you know, the two big the two big parts of the nonprofit sector that do have like regular investment. Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: Yeah, though I love what you're talking about when you talk about resource sharing because I do see that resource sharing can be, you're right, monumental for a nonprofit. all the resources that you're talking about, I think research is one that you know, I've seen really successfully. I used to work at a university, so and then I worked in healthcare. so the you know, the two big the two big parts of the nonprofit sector that do have like regular investment. In-Person: in them and I always say any nonprofit can probably benefit from a partnership with both either a healthcare center or a an education organization because Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: In them. And I always say any nonprofit can probably benefit from a partnership with both, either a healthcare center or a an education organization. Because In-Person: Health is more than the condition of my body. You know, health is mind, body, spirit, and we need to be able to take care of all of that. So that's how the healthcare sector ties in. And we know that mental health is such a huge factor in the healthiness of our communities. And so they ha they want to be engaged with things that they know can help improve, you know, the health of the community. And then for education, you may Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: Health is more than the condition of my body. You know, health is mind, body, spirit, and we need to be able to take care of all of that. So that's how the healthcare sector ties in. And we know that mental health is such a huge factor in the healthiness of our communities. And so they ha they want to be engaged with things that they know can help improve, you know, the health of the community. And then for education, you may In-Person: mentioned you know the research team Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: Mentioned, you know, the research team. In-Person: I think research and evaluation, those things are very heavy to have to do, especially if it's just you. And so your organization may be doing amazing things and a researcher can look at those and say, have you considered looking at this type of outcome over time? And it'll blow you away the way they think. It you know, right? They just think really Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: I think research and evaluation, those things are very heavy to have to do, especially if it's just you. And so your organization may be doing amazing things, and a researcher can look at those and say, have you considered looking at this type of outcome over time? And it'll blow you away the way they think. You know, right? They just think. really differently and so I really In-Person: differently. And so, I really appreciate that you talk about this difference and how a partnership can be really transformational to a small you know, to a small nonprofit, especially when they're doing amazing things and other people want to know that, right? They they really want to know that and they want to be involved in it. Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: appreciate that you talk about this difference and how a partnership can be really transformational to a small you know to a small nonprofit especially when they're doing amazing things and other people want to know that right they they really want to know that and they want to be involved in it Dan Drucker: do. No. I I love what you just talked about, Sarah, with the the the health and education sector because I think there's such an opportunity for joint research because obviously, you know, these these bigger corporations have teams in place and and and they can share research and and make the nonprofits maybe just look at things a little bit different. A lot of it's just about a little bit of a mindset shift, but I also think they would welcome what the nonprofit has, which is kind of that grassroots access down at the community level. That they could share with these big organizations and say, you know, I hear what you're saying, but here's what's really going on in the neighborhoods, in the communities, you know, because you talked about what's important in healthcare, you know, another piece of that is access and education, information, you know. So how is that flowing? So this this you know healthcare organization may think they've got all these great solutions, and they do, but is it reaching the right people? You know, are are people learning about it? I think together. they can actually do some wonderful joint research and think about where that could take both organizations as well as the communities they serve. That to me is what's exciting about these partnerships, if they're done the right way. In-Person: Yes, yes. I love that. Okay, I can't believe like our time is already done. It takes it it goes so fast. so we'll end on if an organization wants to start today and think thinking about corporate partnerships instead of corporate sponsorships and they want to move in that direction, what's the one thing you would say that they could start thinking about doing today? Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: Yes, yes. I love that. Okay, I can't believe like our time is already done. It takes it it goes so fast. so we'll end on if an organization wants to start today and think thinking about corporate partnerships instead of corporate sponsorships and they want to move in that direction, what's the one thing you would say that they could start thinking about doing today? Dan Drucker: Ha ha. I think you start, you know, I kind of mentioned it's a it's a little bit of a mindset shift. So first of all, say, you know, I am not at a deficit. I I talk about this anytime I have the chance to speak. You know, just first of all, take a take a breath, pick your head up from the work and say, I am not at a deficit. I have tremendous value and assets to offer in a partnership. Okay. So that is step one. And just figure out what they are. This doesn't have to be a big scientific thing. Just figure out what you bring to a partnership in terms That a business would understand. And then I would say start with just making taking an inventory of where you have relationships already. Existing sponsors, like I said, volunteers, major donors, and you know, recurring donors, partners in the community, whatever it might be, and just start talking to them. Say, listen, we're trying to build some partnerships. and if you've already figured out that employee engagement might be your best way to go, because there are certain things that would tie right into your program. Then start talking to people. Who do you know at different places that would really, you know, value a conversation about engaging their employees in something like we do? And then just set up some basic conversations. We have a tendency, because there are so many great research tools, to keep doing the research, right? Keep researching, researching, researching, what do they In-Person: Yeah. Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: Yeah. Dan Drucker: call it? Paralysis by analysis or or whatever, right? In-Person: Yeah. Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: Yeah. Dan Drucker: at some point you gotta dive in and start seeing what the market's telling you. You gotta have the conversations. And so that's what I tell people start having a dialogue and get feedback. You may find out what you're saying maybe doesn't have great value, or maybe it's got even more value than you ever imagined. And some things you might have to tweak and some things you might have to double down on. But you got to start getting that feedback. And you're doing it again. You're not trying to sell anybody on anything. You're just trying to have conversations and see if there's a match and see if there's something to build on going forward. So I would say use the relationship you have, take inventory of what your value is. And start having conversations out there in the market so you can get feedback on where you can go. And you just never know where that dialogue is gonna lead. And like I said, if you're small, you're mid-size, one of these partnerships could change your year, your next five years, the trajectory of your organization. And that's that's the beauty of it. In-Person: That's awesome. Yes, I love that. Well, thank you, Dan. Where can people find you if they want to reach out to you and see what you're doing? Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: That's awesome. Yes, I love that. Well thank you, Dan. Where can people find you if they want to reach out to you and see what you're doing? Dan Drucker: Yeah, so obviously, you know, my website, philanthropyfuel dot com, which I just rebuilt all on my own. I was very excited. my my email In-Person: Good job. Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: Good job. Dan Drucker: address is Dan at philanthropyfuel dot com. But I would say, you know, your best spot if you really want to talk to me. I'm on LinkedIn. You know, I post three, four, five times a week, but more importantly, I'm out there commenting on other people's information, things like that. So you can always find me there, you can always message me there. And I'd say, you know, if you're not ready to dive into corporate partnerships or do anything formally yet, but you like what I was saying today, I would say subscribe to my newsletter, the fuel tank. It's free. It's just an email address. You can unsubscribe just as quickly as you can subscribe. And I don't take offense. And I don't just talk about corporate partnerships. I talk about all things nonprofit and kind of hopefully a fun and kind of bite-sized, actionable way. Comes out every Sunday. So I'd say if you go on either LinkedIn or my website, you can sign up, start seeing what I'm talking about, and something resonates with you, or you have questions. shoot me a message and I'm always happy to jump on a Zoom call or whatever and talk to change makers. 'cause if I can just help them out, even just with a little direction, be a shoulder that they can, you know, cry on, or somebody to bounce ideas off of, or just help shift the mindset a little bit, I'm always happy to do that. I I I really enjoy speaking with people in this sector and hearing what they're doing. And if I can help out in any way, shape or form, you know, it it makes me feel good. In-Person: That sounds great. I will make sure I put those links in the in the show notes. To our listeners, I want to thank you for joining us today. Thank you, Dan, for coming and sharing your expertise. I look forward to having another conversation with you. Bye. Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: That sounds great. I will make sure I put those links in the in the show notes. To our listeners, I want to thank you for joining us today. Thank you, Dan, for coming and sharing your expertise. I look forward to having another conversation with you. Bye. Dan Drucker: Absolutely, Sarah. I look forward to continuing the dialogue. Thanks so much for having me on. Take care. In-Person: Thank you. Bye. Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: Thank you. Bye.