Latest / Imperfect Marketing / 246: Podcasting for Business: Strategies for Content, Monetization, and Growth with Guest Cody McLaughlin

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246: Podcasting for Business: Strategies for Content, Monetization, and Growth with Guest Cody McLaughlin · Imperfect Marketing

• 0:28
  Speaker 1: Hello and welcome back to another episode of Imperfect Marketing.
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: I'm your host, kendra Korman, and today I'm going to read this over here.
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: I am joined by Cody McLaughlin, who is an experienced podcast showrunner, guest and host, with over 1000 media appearances, traditional and digital, under his belt.
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: He is a published writer in the outdoor space, appearing in publications such as NRA's Hunter Leadership Forum, national Wild Turkey Federation's Turkey Call Magazine, sport Fishing Magazine and more.
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: He is ultimately responsible at Trout Stream Studios for all elements of production, from planning to distribution, which is really cool.
• 1:10
  Speaker 1: His book of shows ranges in topic, from the science of wildlife conservation to marketing content in the apparel industry, to thought leadership in business, to PTSD awareness for Veterans Affairs Administration's National Center for PTSD Just a wide range of topics that is just wonderful.
• 1:32
  Speaker 1: So thank you so much for joining me today.
• 1:35
  Speaker 1: I am super excited to have you here.
• 1:37
  Speaker 2: Thanks for having me, Kendra.
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: So let's talk a little bit about starting a podcast.
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: I love talking about podcasts.
• 1:47
  Speaker 1: My podcast has been a key revenue generator, lead generator for me and my business, so I'm a fan.
• 1:55
  Speaker 1: How would you talk to someone if they were thinking about starting a podcast and they shouldn't?
• 2:05
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a.
• 2:06
  Speaker 2: Well, I try to.
• 2:07
  Speaker 2: I try to unsell people before I sell them, right.
• 2:10
  Speaker 2: So it's it's a.
• 2:12
  Speaker 2: Starting a podcast is difficult, but there are tremendous benefits and long-term strategies involved.
• 2:19
  Speaker 2: Or it can be the centerpiece of an interesting long-term content-focused strategy if you do it right, but it takes a lot of commitment to get there.
• 2:35
  Speaker 2: So I try to weed out the people who are, you know, who don't have anything interesting to say, as it were, right, which is the biggest challenge facing a podcast producer is finding somebody who's got something interesting to say.
• 2:49
  Speaker 2: So you know how do I do that?
• 2:53
  Speaker 2: There's a couple ways that I go about it.
• 2:55
  Speaker 2: The number one way, though, is really just to just to talk to people about what their, what their message is Right.
• 3:01
  Speaker 2: So you have to add value back to the audience, and that's that's really interesting part about podcasting is that it's it's kind of a two way street, more so than any other type of marketing.
• 3:10
  Speaker 2: You don't get away with the stuff that you get away with in a 30 second TikTok video or a 60 second ad that you do on, you know, on podcasting, because if you're starting to ramble and you're not delivering a message of value or something that's going to add value back to the person's day.
• 3:34
  Speaker 2: That's spending, you know, 30 to 60 minutes on average with you once or twice a week.
• 3:39
  Speaker 2: Sometimes I've got clients that are publishing three to five times a week.
• 3:43
  Speaker 2: Right, you're going to lose audience really quickly and it's going to.
• 3:49
  Speaker 2: It's getting increasingly hard to capture that audience and keep them when you're not delivering something of value, because more and more people are getting into the podcasting space.
• 4:02
  Speaker 2: But all of those things that other people see as challenges I really see as good for podcasting.
• 4:09
  Speaker 2: The turnover rate of shows I see as a good thing.
• 4:11
  Speaker 2: It gives more of an opportunity to test things out and then see what's working, without the huge embarrassment of launching a show and putting all this money into it and then having it die five years ago.
• 4:28
  Speaker 2: These days it's kind of par for the course.
• 4:34
  Speaker 2: I think it's also helping with a lot of what you're seeing as a benefit.
• 4:38
  Speaker 2: So the network effect is increasing the CPM of the ads that we're seeing on shows.
• 4:46
  Speaker 2: So it's making monetization easier.
• 4:47
  Speaker 2: It's making the push towards paid, bonus and early access content easier for podcasters, which gives an additional avenue for revenue, an opportunity, just through technological advancements, for some of that lead gen stuff that you were talking about.
• 5:17
  Speaker 2: You know, brands that aren't taking advantage of the fact that they can publish their own owned media platform as long as they have something to say.
• 5:25
  Speaker 2: Right, publishing their own owned media platform where they can link to their products and they can talk in depth about their products and and in a at in a length never before seen in marketing.
• 5:38
  Speaker 2: Right, like how many, I mean, 50, 60 years ago, brands would have killed to have their own radio show where they control every second of content.
• 5:49
  Speaker 2: That is that.
• 5:52
  Speaker 2: And then where they can publish as long as they want.
• 5:54
  Speaker 2: There's no contractual obligations for, you know, a 30 second, or you know, or a 30 minute or 60 minute show where they have to pump in fluff and stuff.
• 6:05
  Speaker 2: I tell people all the time if, if, if what you have to say is 18 minutes, then speak for 18 minutes.
• 6:10
  Speaker 2: If what you have to say is an hour in 18 minutes, go ahead and go nuts.
• 6:15
  Speaker 1: I love that you pointed out.
• 6:16
  Speaker 1: So one of the most frequently asked questions that I get about podcasting is how long should it be?
• 6:20
  Speaker 1: And I was like I don't know, how much value do you have and how long does your audience have to listen?
• 6:26
  Speaker 1: My original episodes were closer to an hour than they are now.
• 6:32
  Speaker 1: Now they're closer to a half an hour because I noticed that people were dropping off and so, even though I thought it was really interesting and value added, clearly nobody else did so, or only a handful of people did so.
• 6:44
  Speaker 1: With that drop off in listenership, yeah, I cut it down to be more succinct, more focused, less, less topic coverage on a longer show, right.
• 6:56
  Speaker 1: But you know, again, it's.
• 6:58
  Speaker 1: It's about the listener, you know, focused on, on on what they have time for, but also the value, and I love that you talk about value because I think that that is just so, so important, important when putting something together.
• 7:12
  Speaker 1: My first podcast failed I talk about it all the time because I didn't have a plan and so I was rambling for half an hour and so that was a little bit of a hot mess.
• 7:24
  Speaker 2: So let me ask you this.
• 7:25
  Speaker 1: So another question that I get regularly is about monetizing podcasts.
• 7:32
  Speaker 1: I've made a decision to monetize mine because I leverage it through affiliate links when I refer to different things and through, well, really just lead generation for people interested in me, helping them with their marketing.
• 7:47
  Speaker 1: Um, I, you, the people that are looking to monetize it out the gate, I'm usually like are you here for the right reasons?
• 7:59
  Speaker 1: Are you looking to add value or money?
• 8:00
  Speaker 1: What's your feeling on monetization and how people respond to that or answer that question?
• 8:05
  Speaker 1: And then my second part of that question is what do you recommend for people that are looking to monetize?
• 8:12
  Speaker 2: Sure.
• 8:12
  Speaker 2: So I have a client that has a saying that I actually really, really liked to adopt is that we're not journalists right.
• 8:18
  Speaker 2: Most podcasters aren't.
• 8:20
  Speaker 2: The vast majority of podcasters aren't right.
• 8:22
  Speaker 2: I mean, we're entertainers, we're business people, we're outdoors people.
• 8:28
  Speaker 2: For the most part, we are not journalists.
• 8:32
  Speaker 2: What does that mean?
• 8:32
  Speaker 2: That just means that a lot of times there's an expectation, when you're putting this much work in, to find some way to monetize it.
• 8:41
  Speaker 2: That said, podcasting is the wild west of monetization right now.
• 8:46
  Speaker 2: There's four really main categories to do it.
• 8:48
  Speaker 2: You've touched on a couple.
• 8:50
  Speaker 2: I'll touch on some others.
• 8:51
  Speaker 2: The number one way is the tried and true ad-supported podcast.
• 8:56
  Speaker 2: You're putting dynamically inserted or manually inserted ads directly into your program that are paid for by marketers.
• 9:05
  Speaker 2: A lot of that stuff will be managed at the or, I'm sorry, managed at the hosting end on your hosting platform.
• 9:11
  Speaker 2: Very easy to do and, like I said, just the fact that it's so early in the monetization effort around podcasts that CPMs are historically high.
• 9:27
  Speaker 2: I mean they're higher right now because brand lift is higher, because we haven't beaten them to death or our audiences to death with ads.
• 9:38
  Speaker 2: So that's the piece of caution that I'll get to in a second.
• 9:41
  Speaker 2: Anyway, back to what I was saying, though that.
• 9:44
  Speaker 2: So the ad supported podcast has a higher brand lift, reach, you know, better recall rate than even video, so it's commanding a higher cost per thousand impressions, which kind of balances out to the fact that there's less available impressions for the most part on these ads right, because most individual podcasts don't see.
• 10:08
  Speaker 2: I mean, a successful podcast is somewhere in the 10,000 downloads per month range, which would put you at, if you're following best practice recommendations, anywhere between 30 to 50,000 impressions a month available between pre-roll, mid-roll and end-roll if you're counting the average kind of drop-off of an episode.
• 10:32
  Speaker 2: So that's kind of your math for monetization there.
• 10:37
  Speaker 2: But there's also other supplemental avenues for monetization that can be tremendously helpful, one of which is affiliate marketing.
• 10:44
  Speaker 2: You mentioned that I recommend a lot of clients to get into affiliate marketing if they're in the golf space and if they're in a niche space that doesn't already have a strong podcast element to it.
• 10:59
  Speaker 2: Again, you're talking long form about any topic.
• 11:08
  Speaker 2: You want something that you're passionate about and if there are products involved that you truly believe in, there's more avenues than ever to share those products with people and you should be compensated for of saying you know.
• 11:28
  Speaker 2: I mean I have clients that obviously use a lot of guns and fishing tackle and things of that nature and you know they share those six $800 reels and stuff with their audience that they're, you know, passionate about, that they use every day and they're generating sales and interest in those products for people.
• 11:50
  Speaker 2: So there's a there's a great avenue there for monetization.
• 11:54
  Speaker 2: Another way is subscriber led monetization.
• 11:59
  Speaker 2: This is actually a really good supplement to the ad supported, because they kind of feed one another.
• 12:05
  Speaker 2: So you have your ad supported program.
• 12:08
  Speaker 2: A lot of people don't like that, right?
• 12:10
  Speaker 2: So in order to again maintain a maniacal sense of your listenership experience, that is the number one piece of advice If anybody walks away from this program.
• 12:21
  Speaker 2: That I want to give you is that if you're creating a good listener experience, your podcast will grow.
• 12:28
  Speaker 2: It's necessary, right?
• 12:28
  Speaker 2: So there needs to be value that you're creating a good listener experience, your podcast will grow.
• 12:29
  Speaker 2: It's necessary, right?
• 12:30
  Speaker 2: So there needs to be value that you're adding back and you need to make sure that it sounds good and that the audience is getting all the things that they need from your show in a very passive listening environment, right?
• 12:43
  Speaker 2: So if people are not fans of the ad supported nature of your show.
• 12:50
  Speaker 2: Right, you can make up that, that ground on monetization by offering an early access and maybe ad free listening experience behind a private RSS feed, same content or maybe some additional bonus content to spice things up a little bit.
• 13:08
  Speaker 2: And people are happy to pay five to 10, 20.
• 13:13
  Speaker 2: I think I've seen the highest I've seen is $30 a month for all those subscriber benefits and that's.
• 13:23
  Speaker 2: You know, there are a ton of platforms that are evolving but beyond just Patreon and like kind of the stalwarts of that space that are allowing people to to get involved in in, you know, being a part of your show.
• 13:39
  Speaker 2: You can sell sponsorships and stuff as well.
• 13:42
  Speaker 2: That's kind of the fourth.
• 13:44
  Speaker 2: Fourth avenue for for monetization is your kind of standard sponsorship model.
• 13:49
  Speaker 2: A lot of people go with either a season long sponsorship, right as a title sponsorship, or some episodic sponsorships.
• 13:59
  Speaker 2: So if somebody wants to be a sponsor for three episodes, five episodes, 10 episodes, that's a good way to get them in the door.
• 14:06
  Speaker 2: Episodes, five episodes, 10 episodes, that's a good way to get them in the door.
• 14:10
  Speaker 2: And then I've seen a lot of people do a mix of the two, where they'll name a limited amount of sponsorships at different levels and then allow companies to bid on.
• 14:19
  Speaker 1: Okay, very cool.
• 14:20
  Speaker 1: So, yeah, I think that there's a lot of ways to get monetized.
• 14:25
  Speaker 1: You got to figure out what's going to fit your model best and what you're trying to achieve.
• 14:30
  Speaker 1: You know, I always, again, I talk about my first podcast.
• 14:34
  Speaker 1: It failed because I didn't have a strategy, I didn't have a plan, I didn't know what I was going to be doing, and rambling for a long time and once I had a strategy and a plan, like everything else came together and the value that I wanted to provide and the consistent content that I wanted to provide, um, to feed my socials and everything else, that was the value in the podcast for me, right?
• 14:58
  Speaker 1: Um?
• 14:59
  Speaker 1: This makes my life easy because this will be, you know, 10 to 15 pieces of content on my social media reels, youtube shorts, youtube video.
• 15:10
  Speaker 1: I mean just a lot.
• 15:11
  Speaker 1: Just announcing the podcast is happening.
• 15:13
  Speaker 1: Just a lot there.
• 15:15
  Speaker 1: So, speaking of socials and all the way I leverage podcasting and I'll have a link into how I use AI to help me leverage my podcast for multiple forms of content what are you seeing in terms of AI impacting this creator economy and podcasting in general?
• 15:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so I'll.
• 15:40
  Speaker 2: That's a that's such a timely question right now because there's such an explosion of these tools.
• 15:46
  Speaker 2: I'm going to kind of and I've evolved on this over time.
• 15:51
  Speaker 2: I got when it first came out.
• 15:53
  Speaker 2: I was extremely excited about it.
• 15:55
  Speaker 2: I really think a lot of these tools have evolved in a good way, and some of them in a really bad way, over time.
• 16:01
  Speaker 2: So I'll, I'll get to that.
• 16:03
  Speaker 2: So I'll, I'll explain these in buckets as I see them to that.
• 16:12
  Speaker 2: So I'll explain these in buckets as I see them.
• 16:15
  Speaker 2: Welcome any feedback from the audience about what you guys think.
• 16:18
  Speaker 2: But brass tacks AI has severely and I choose the word severely not in a negative way, but just because I can't think of another word at the moment Right, but it has severely impacted the state of play in podcasting.
• 16:33
  Speaker 2: What does that mean?
• 16:34
  Speaker 2: I mean, that's just the way that we generate content now is a lot different.
• 16:38
  Speaker 2: I mean, I have clients who do, who I sometimes fight with over writing a three sentence social media post about their show because they want to put it through nine different AI platforms and I'm like it's three sentences, guys.
• 16:53
  Speaker 2: So like we're way overthinking this If you have to plug it into multiple AI platforms because you think that that's going to make it.
• 17:01
  Speaker 2: They're just words, you got to use them.
• 17:03
  Speaker 2: You know what I mean.
• 17:03
  Speaker 2: So we'll go good, bad ugly, right.
• 17:09
  Speaker 2: Uh, from the editing standpoint a lot of the editing platforms.
• 17:14
  Speaker 2: Uh.
• 17:15
  Speaker 2: Optimization, um, uh, like adobe's um.
• 17:20
  Speaker 2: Voice enhancement a lot of descript stuff.
• 17:24
  Speaker 2: I'm not a fan of their filler word removal, but their actual voice and background noise, denoiser all those tools tremendous.
• 17:35
  Speaker 2: I mean, it's made it a lot easier for a bunch of different people.
• 17:41
  Speaker 2: So it's made it easier for your average kind of doesn't have the budget to do it themselves or to pay someone to do it for them, wants to do it themselves.
• 17:51
  Speaker 2: Podcaster to make not absolutely garbage quality audio, right, um, while it has also made professional editors like myself tremendously more efficient, right, something you know I used to.
• 18:06
  Speaker 2: I used to estimate for people that it took me four to six times sometimes the length of an episode, depending on whether a guest called in from Africa or wherever right, to edit a show.
• 18:19
  Speaker 2: Now I'm down to two, three, x you know that's half my day back to me to do more work and and get more done, uh, which is, which is tremendously helpful, uh, and then you have um.
• 18:35
  Speaker 2: So you know you have your Adobe's.
• 18:38
  Speaker 2: You have your, uh, a lot of the endemic tools to Riverside which you're using.
• 18:42
  Speaker 2: I use that for all my clients as well.
• 18:45
  Speaker 2: Um, I'm not as much of a fan of Riverside's voice enhancement as I am of some others.
• 18:49
  Speaker 2: The big ones I would recommend there are definitely Adobe Podcast, although inexplicable that Adobe chose to make another audio editor when they already had the best in the in the business on that.
• 19:06
  Speaker 2: I don't understand why they did that, but the voice enhancement is tremendous.
• 19:10
  Speaker 2: And then you have Descript.
• 19:13
  Speaker 2: Who's really coming for Adobe's editor as well.
• 19:18
  Speaker 2: I like Descript Again.
• 19:21
  Speaker 2: Their voice enhancement is also pretty good.
• 19:22
  Speaker 2: I find that their D-Hummer is really not as effective as Adobe's and again, they have an automatic filler word removal tool which I find is sometimes a little bit imprecise.
• 19:41
  Speaker 2: I don't trust it as much as I would like to.
• 19:43
  Speaker 2: That said, the editing tools are great.
• 19:46
  Speaker 2: The writing tools are great with an asterisk, uh, the you know your chat gpts of the world, your um, I'm, uh, I'm drawing, I'm a big fan of claudeai when I'm using it for my podcast okay, I haven't used that one yet.
• 20:05
  Speaker 2: I'll have to take a look.
• 20:06
  Speaker 2: Castmagic is another one where they'll generate an automatic transcript, which, again, riverside already does, all of the other recording platforms already do, and so does the podcast app.
• 20:19
  Speaker 2: So I don't see the point to that.
• 20:21
  Speaker 2: But CastMagic does repurpose that really well into content that you then have to edit.
• 20:27
  Speaker 2: So I tell people all the time please don't take the written content that AI gives you and just put it up or send it out via email.
• 20:35
  Speaker 2: I know that it's really pretty, I know that it's really cool that it generates all these words and stuff like that, but it's not good content by any stretch of the imagination, right?
• 20:46
  Speaker 2: So you really need to optimize for keywords and stuff like that on your show notes, titles, things of that nature, because as more podcasts are generated, if you're not, especially if you're not at the top of the charts yet, making sure that you're discoverable via keywords that your audience are looking for is going to be a big one.
• 21:08
  Speaker 2: But really, just, you know, breaking through the clutter on your social media platforms, on your email, things of that nature, is going to be a big part of it.
• 21:19
  Speaker 2: So take that, certainly, take the content, use it as a building block, but then take a merciless red pen to it and edit it so that it sounds like a human being wrote it, um, which still saves you a ton of time, because a lot of times for me as a writer I mean I'm, I'm a published writer and 14 magazines, um, and I've, I've been on hundreds of news outlets, from broadcast radio to TV to local cable news, right, a lot of times the hardest part for me is getting the first word on the paper.
• 21:59
  Speaker 2: I spend all day ignoring the fact that I have to write this article or something like that, and then, once I get the first word down, bang.
• 22:07
  Speaker 2: It's done in 20 minutes, right?
• 22:09
  Speaker 2: So you know, using AI a lot of times that's how I'll use it is to really get the first word, first sentence down, so that I can get the gears turning and rolling.
• 22:22
  Speaker 2: And then we have, you know, a lot of the clipping tools.
• 22:25
  Speaker 2: There are some good ones, there are some bad ones as far as selection of clips.
• 22:31
  Speaker 2: So you know the tertiary marketing stuff that helps you market your podcast and, again, a lot of these tools.
• 22:40
  Speaker 2: Riverside, the recording platforms, even to some degree, like some of the hosting platforms, are trying to help as well, and I know where they're coming from.
• 22:48
  Speaker 2: I always appreciate when a tool tries to give me all the things I need, but exercise some caution.
• 22:56
  Speaker 2: Use your best judgment Again.
• 22:58
  Speaker 2: Don't just listen to the AI bot, especially Riverside.
• 23:02
  Speaker 2: Riverside gives some awful clips on their clipper and I'm not trying to trash Riverside, because I love their platform for what it is, which is local recording high quality, like if you're watching this and record it on Riverside, you'll see that none of the lag and stuff that we're seeing on our end is going to affect anything that you see, because it's being recorded locally on my device, which is tremendous.
• 23:27
  Speaker 2: That was a big technological advancement for podcasters because there wasn't as much skipping.
• 23:31
  Speaker 2: You're not relying on Zoom anymore, which is something I tell people a lot.
• 23:35
  Speaker 2: A lot of things that make Zoom a great platform for meetings is what makes it not a good platform for podcast recordings, because if Kendra and I are talking at the same time talking at the same time Zoom will cut out one of our microphones and not record that, so that it sounds better to us two talking on a meeting.
• 23:58
  Speaker 2: But if she and I are talking at the same time right now, riverside will record both individually, and then a good editor will slide those tracks apart to make it a much more seamless transition between the two speakers, which is where editors come in, by the way, guys.
• 24:18
  Speaker 2: So I highly advise that you not use, though, their clipping, or at least their magic clips.
• 24:29
  Speaker 2: Not a big fan of that.
• 24:30
  Speaker 2: There are some good ones, though opus clips.
• 24:32
  Speaker 2: I was actually very impressed with um.
• 24:35
  Speaker 2: That's something I've tested out on uh, on my own podcast.
• 24:39
  Speaker 2: I did a short run, limited investigative series on salmon, uh, here in alaska, um, and so opus clips was tremendously helpful, uh, along with some that I just identified myself, you know, um.
• 24:53
  Speaker 2: And then along the line, the mark, the clip marker on Riverside is great.
• 24:58
  Speaker 2: If we're having a conversation and you see, you hear something that you think is great, you can drop a.
• 25:02
  Speaker 2: Drop a clip marker.
• 25:03
  Speaker 2: You can edit a lot of that stuff, uh, right down to the correct size for reels on Instagram, um, right in the app, which is tremendously helpful, and then you can download it in 4k and send it to maybe somebody to finish off with some B-roll stuff like that.
• 25:18
  Speaker 2: So those are kind of the three main avenues that I think AI is affecting podcasting.
• 25:24
  Speaker 2: I think that, you know.
• 25:27
  Speaker 2: On the flip side of this, I think we're going to see less reliance on charts and more reliance on algorithms to put content into people's feeds.
• 25:38
  Speaker 2: So and we're already starting to see that to some degree which is good and bad.
• 25:43
  Speaker 2: Spotify is trying to rely on more of that, which could be really frustrating for a network owner, right, because I'm an outdoor network and it's they.
• 25:53
  Speaker 2: They tend to not suggest more of my content to my listeners, but they'll, you know, suggest things based on other listenership behavior, which can be a good thing because it then makes my content discoverable to other audiences, which can be a good thing because it then makes my content discoverable to other audiences, right, but so it's kind of a catch 22.
• 26:16
  Speaker 2: It's good, you know.
• 26:17
  Speaker 2: Damned if you do, damned if you don't Right, but you know again tremendous technological advancements.
• 26:26
  Speaker 2: Podcasting is still in infancy stages, in my opinion.
• 26:27
  Speaker 2: I mean at best we're in the toddler phase, in infancy stages, in my opinion, I mean at best we're in the toddler phase.
• 26:31
  Speaker 2: And so I'm really excited to see where this industry goes over the next five to 10 years, and that's why I've put all my chips into this basket, if you will.
• 26:42
  Speaker 1: Yeah, ai has saved me.
• 26:43
  Speaker 1: I would say at least three hours an episode.
• 26:47
  Speaker 1: I mean I don't have to re-listen to this episode.
• 26:50
  Speaker 1: I mean this episode we're recording, just so you guys all know, at the end of July and it's going live in October.
• 26:55
  Speaker 1: When you're listening to it I'm not going to remember what we talked about.
• 27:00
  Speaker 1: But Riverside does the creates the transcript that I can put into cloudai and I can get some show notes from it or some summaries.
• 27:13
  Speaker 1: It can help me brainstorm title ideas.
• 27:16
  Speaker 1: It can just do so many different things.
• 27:20
  Speaker 1: I do use magic clips, but I heavily edit the magic clips.
• 27:25
  Speaker 1: If I'm given 10, maybe three of them make the cut.
• 27:29
  Speaker 1: So I do use it a little bit, but I definitely heavily, heavily edit the Magic Clips Because for some reason it starts in the middle of a thought and then ends in the middle of the next one.
• 27:46
  Speaker 2: But it gets me close.
• 27:46
  Speaker 2: It's a strange thing.
• 27:48
  Speaker 2: When I first started testing Magic Clips, that's what I hated about it too was that it's the mid-sentence.
• 27:55
  Speaker 2: It's just bizarre.
• 27:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah, mid-sentence, it's like and Like.
• 28:00
  Speaker 1: No, that's not the end.
• 28:01
  Speaker 1: So, yeah, so I get that, but it does give me a start and it allows me to create things that I wasn't creating before the reels, the tech talks.
• 28:11
  Speaker 1: I wasn't creating those before magic clips, um, partially just because of time, you know, and now that it at least gets me a start, I think that that helps me with that.
• 28:22
  Speaker 1: Um, but, yeah, it'll be interesting to to to hear what other people's, what other people think, um, but if any of you know what things you want to highlight, that works too.
• 28:37
  Speaker 1: Um, yeah, the clip markers are awesome.
• 28:38
  Speaker 1: I've marked things before in different podcasts, especially when I need to edit things out, um, like, if my phone rang cause I forgot to mute it, so I'm hoping it doesn't ring Um, those types of things.
• 28:48
  Speaker 1: So, um, this is a fantastic conversation.
• 28:52
  Speaker 1: I have loved chatting with you all about podcasting, how people need to be really dedicated to it, because it is not for the faint of heart.
• 28:59
  Speaker 1: If you want to be consistent and to keep going, you have to have something of value.
• 29:04
  Speaker 1: Ai is changing things and, of course, monetization is important, because, you know, I strive to one day hire an editor.
• 29:13
  Speaker 1: I started with a YouTube SEO agency first, and then I do hope to move to an editor Again.
• 29:21
  Speaker 1: You know AI helps me, but an editor can bring such a higher level of quality for it a higher level of quality for it, and so I think that looking into that wherever your podcast is in your process is important to consider.
• 29:39
  Speaker 1: Now, before I let you go, cody I, there's a question that I ask all of my guests.
• 29:43
  Speaker 1: This show is called imperfect marketing, because marketing is anything but a perfect science.
• 29:45
  Speaker 1: What has been your biggest marketing lesson learned?
• 29:50
  Speaker 2: Oh, all about testing, you know.
• 29:53
  Speaker 2: So there's a there's a saying in fishing that does not apply.
• 29:58
  Speaker 2: It applies quite the opposite to marketing, and that is you never leave fish to find fish.
• 30:04
  Speaker 2: And in marketing I would say it's completely the opposite, right, Like if you're, if you're just sitting on your little school of fish that you're trying to fish from and you're never testing out, you know, new tactics, new, new avenues, new places to find them, then you're going to dry up really, really quick.
• 30:29
  Speaker 2: Your lead gen is going to spike, you're going to see a higher cost per conversion, you're going to see just dwindling results, because marketing, especially in this day and age of content, gets stale very quickly.
• 30:47
  Speaker 2: Content gets stale very quickly.
• 30:54
  Speaker 2: So test, test, test, you know.
• 30:55
  Speaker 2: Just never be willing to, never be unwilling to swing for the fences.
• 30:57
  Speaker 2: Try something new is definitely something that's been, that's been hammered into my head over the course.
• 31:03
  Speaker 1: Yes, it's definitely about progress, not perfection, and you get progress by experimenting.
• 31:08
  Speaker 1: Marketing is part art and part science.
• 31:10
  Speaker 1: The part art is definitely involves some experimentation, so thank you again so much, Cody, for joining me today.
• 31:17
  Speaker 1: I really appreciate it.
• 31:19
  Speaker 1: For those of you listening or watching, if you got something out of today's podcast and I hope you did you could rate and subscribe wherever you're listening or watching.
• 31:28
  Speaker 1: It would really help me out.
• 31:29
  Speaker 1: Until next time, have a great rest of your day.