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Men Who Fear Toys Have It Backwards PhD Sexologist Explains · Sex Advice for Seniors Podcast

• 0:00
  [music]
• 0:07
  SPEAKER_00: At Oh My Bod,
• 0:08
  SPEAKER_00: innovation meets self-care,
• 0:10
  SPEAKER_00: helping adults of all ages reclaim confidence, curiosity, and connection.
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_00: Explore their collection at ohmybod.com.
• 0:19
  SPEAKER_00: That's O-H-M-I-B-O-D dot com.
• 0:21
  [music]
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_00: Hi, this is Suzanne, and you're listening to Sex Advice for Seniors.
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_00: And one of my favorite topics,
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_00: as many people know,
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_00: is around my collection of sex toys,
• 0:41
  SPEAKER_00: because I actually first got given a sex toy back when I was a blogger in
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_00: the early 2000s.
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_00: I couldn't believe that somebody actually gave me a sex toy.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_00: Now, of course, I've got boxes of the things, absolute stacks of them, way too many.
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_00: But today I'm actually going to be talking about somebody
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_00: who knows probably even more than I do about all of this, Dr. Jess O'Reilly.
• 1:05
  SPEAKER_00: She's a globally recognized sexologist and relationship expert,
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_00: and she spent her career helping people build more connected,
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  SPEAKER_00: pleasurable, and resilient relationships.
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_00: She's actually got a PhD in human sexuality,
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  SPEAKER_00: and she's delivered workshops in over Thank you so much for joining us.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks so much for having me.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_00: Excited to talk about your collection.
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, it's very extensive.
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_00: Believe me.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not shy of introducing sex toys because I feel that as an older woman,
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_00: they have become a really essential part of intimacy, both on my own and I love you.
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_00: For couples that have been in long term relationships and haven't used sex toys
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_00: to introduce them into their relationship.
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_00: And why do you think that can be such a positive shift when it comes
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_00: to how they relate to each other in bed or on the kitchen table?
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
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  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
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  SPEAKER_01: So there's the conversation that perhaps begins at the kitchen table,
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_01: and I guess you can finish it off there.
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_01: If you're feeling rather alive and flexible, it's interesting.
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not quite a senior, but I definitely prefer a soft padded bed to everything.
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_01: I'm always encouraging people to change things up, try new spaces.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_01: Meanwhile,
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  SPEAKER_01: I'm an advocate of starting in the new spaces and then finishing,
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_01: getting down to the more challenging stages.
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_01: I'm glad we're talking about long-term relationships because I think what we need
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_01: a reminder of is that in long-term relationships, we require novelty.
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_01: And sometimes we think that novelty has to be dramatic,
• 3:35
  SPEAKER_01: but it also can be simply introducing a new sensation,
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_01: a new conversation, a new exploration or curiosity, a way of touching each other.
• 3:45
  SPEAKER_01: And As you mentioned, our bodies naturally change, right?
• 3:49
  SPEAKER_01: So the way we responded when we're 40 may not be the same as 50, 60, 70, 80, 90, and beyond.
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  SPEAKER_01: We know that arousal can take longer.
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  SPEAKER_01: Sensitivity can shift.
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  SPEAKER_01: Certainly different stress and health factors affect desire.
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  SPEAKER_01: And we know that toys are one way.
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  SPEAKER_01: They're not the only way,
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  SPEAKER_01: but they're an evidence-based way and a fun way
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  SPEAKER_01: that couples can really adapt together instead of interpreting these changes
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  SPEAKER_01: as some sort of failure or that something isn't,
• 4:19
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
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  SPEAKER_01: So I see that toys kind of bring couples,
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  SPEAKER_01: once we get over the hump of talking about them, into a more playful mindset, right?
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_01: So you know we become more logistical teammates,
• 4:31
  SPEAKER_01: running households,
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  SPEAKER_01: some people working together,
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_01: managing stress, raising kids, launching the kids at this point, caring for family.
• 4:39
  SPEAKER_01: And this exploration is really an opportunity to reconnect in the roles
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  SPEAKER_01: as lovers instead of just partners and maybe roommates.
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_00: What we've seen is the evolution of sex toys where,
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  SPEAKER_00: I'm not saying quite rightly,
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  SPEAKER_00: but understandably,
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  SPEAKER_00: lots of men saw rabbit vibes,
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  SPEAKER_00: for example, or penis-shaped vibes, these big girthy things, right?
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  SPEAKER_00: And they thought, I'm not him.
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not him.
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  SPEAKER_00: Like she's bringing that in because she's lacking something that I'm not giving her.
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  SPEAKER_00: Instead, now,
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  SPEAKER_00: of course,
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  SPEAKER_00: we've got things like clitoral sucking vibrators that don't look anything like
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  SPEAKER_00: a penis.
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  SPEAKER_00: We've got bullet vibes that are tiny little things you could never mistake for even
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  SPEAKER_00: a micro penis, you know.
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  SPEAKER_00: It's like we've got so many different options now.
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  SPEAKER_00: We've got things that go in our butts and all sorts of things.
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  SPEAKER_00: And so I think for me...
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  SPEAKER_00: I tend not to like the rabbit vibes if I'm really honest.
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  SPEAKER_00: And I really like the small ones because frankly,
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  SPEAKER_00: it's quite easy for men to see how they help me.
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
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  SPEAKER_00: Like if I bring a tiny little bullet and I just say,
• 5:52
  SPEAKER_00: do you mind if I just like use this on my clit while we're having sex?
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_00: It's quite easy for him to see why I would say that because his penis can't be
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_00: in two places at once.
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_01: Thank goodness for that.
• 6:09
  SPEAKER_01: Whoever designed the body saved us that one.
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, just start with something really small.
• 6:16
  SPEAKER_01: I completely agree.
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, when we think about our lives, we use tools to enhance every other area, right?
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_01: So I wear contact lenses,
• 6:23
  SPEAKER_01: you're wearing glasses, because we'd both rather see 2020 than anything less.
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  SPEAKER_01: We use apps to communicate better.
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  SPEAKER_01: We buy supportive shoes to move more comfortably.
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  SPEAKER_01: And a toy is just another tool that can support pleasure.
• 6:37
  SPEAKER_01: And I think...
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_01: Using toys can help support the shift away from performance as well.
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  SPEAKER_01: Performance and pleasure don't always go hand in hand.
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  SPEAKER_01: When we're so focused on performance, it can be hard.
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  SPEAKER_01: To be mindful and get out of our heads and into our bodies.
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_01: And when we're playing with products,
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  SPEAKER_01: it's a way to ground ourselves, to really get in the moment.
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_01: I was fiddling with this box here because you were mentioning,
• 7:04
  SPEAKER_01: you know, you're right, that even when I first started, they all had eyes.
• 7:09
  SPEAKER_01: That's what I remember.
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_01: All the vibes and the dildos had eyes and ears and they were rabbits or dolphins and
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_01: And now, as you said, tech has advanced so much.
• 7:20
  SPEAKER_01: One of my favorite shapes is sort of that computer mouse or large.
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_00: That's like a pebble.
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, exactly.
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  SPEAKER_01: And this one's nice and heavy.
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_01: This one is actually called the Temp.
• 7:31
  SPEAKER_01: This is the Wii Vibe Temp and it warms up.
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much.
• 7:51
  SPEAKER_01: You know, anywhere on the body because of that warming and cooling sensation.
• 7:55
  SPEAKER_01: And I love the texture of it.
• 7:57
  SPEAKER_01: It's kind of silky smooth, but it's also really heavy.
• 7:59
  SPEAKER_01: And so you mentioned bullet vibes, rings, the pleasure, suction toys.
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_01: Like we have everything at our disposal.
• 8:07
  SPEAKER_01: And in no way could a toy ever replace intimacy, right?
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_01: You're not going to have a conversation with a toy.
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_01: You're not going to talk to the temp about how you're feeling unless you're,
• 8:17
  SPEAKER_01: you know, playing on your own, which, you know, all the power to you.
• 8:21
  SPEAKER_01: But what I really find is that when people introduce toys,
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_01: especially in the early stages of using them,
• 8:28
  SPEAKER_01: it opens up new conversations about what you like,
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  SPEAKER_01: what you don't like,
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  SPEAKER_01: and really importantly, not just what you're into, but what makes you uncomfortable.
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  SPEAKER_01: Because if I'm able to say, well, I'm worried that ABC...
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  SPEAKER_01: It creates space not only for me to be more honest and vulnerable
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  SPEAKER_01: and create intimacy,
• 8:43
  SPEAKER_01: but also for a partner to potentially respond with,
• 8:46
  SPEAKER_01: actually, XYZ, here's the reassurance.
• 8:49
  SPEAKER_01: So there's a lot of important, I think, dialogue that comes out of it.
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  SPEAKER_00: Going back to your point about performance,
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  SPEAKER_00: one of the things that I think is so fun with toys,
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  SPEAKER_00: especially if you're an older person,
• 9:00
  SPEAKER_00: is, look, things do become somewhat unreliable, like erections, for example, right?
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  SPEAKER_00: And if you're a guy who...
• 9:07
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, some of the remotes.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_00: Now that are available with pretty much all of these toys come with apps now.
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  SPEAKER_00: Back in the old days, that was very rare.
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  SPEAKER_00: But now I think virtually all of them have got some sort of remote app functionality
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  SPEAKER_00: where you can Bluetooth it and then you can be in another room,
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  SPEAKER_00: you can be in another country, you know, you can operate the toy remotely.
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  SPEAKER_00: Like there's so much opportunity to have fun with your partner,
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_00: which takes the pressure off your My dick's not working properly right now,
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  SPEAKER_00: or I just need to take a break,
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  SPEAKER_00: or can we have a rest and I'm just going to fiddle around with you, or vice versa.
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_00: Because, of course, there's lots of great men's toys as well.
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_00: And I know that men sometimes are uncomfortable with that because they're like,
• 10:04
  SPEAKER_00: well, I've got my hand.
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_00: What do I need that for?
• 10:07
  SPEAKER_00: But, you know, once again, I think toys just enhance the sensations that we feel in our bodies.
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, absolutely.
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_01: And I love the shift back to pleasure, right?
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_01: If something isn't working the way you want it to work, that's fine.
• 10:20
  SPEAKER_01: If you're feeling a moment of performance pressure,
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_01: there's kind of nothing that brings you back into the body,
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  SPEAKER_01: back into the moment,
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  SPEAKER_01: back into the connection as giving and participating in your partner's pleasure.
• 10:31
  SPEAKER_01: And we've got all these different toys at our disposal to do that.
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_00: The thing about toys is they're very personal.
• 10:37
  SPEAKER_00: Some people like internal vibration.
• 10:39
  SPEAKER_00: Some people like internal pleasure.
• 10:41
  SPEAKER_00: Some people just want it all external.
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_00: Some people have mobility issues.
• 10:46
  SPEAKER_00: And I suspect that Pebble one that you showed me is quite good.
• 10:49
  SPEAKER_00: Good if you're struggling with holding smaller objects because you can just kind
• 10:54
  SPEAKER_00: of rest it in your hand.
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_00: That looks really nice.
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_01: For sure.
• 10:57
  SPEAKER_01: And you can also lay on it, right?
• 10:59
  SPEAKER_01: You can kind of sit on it.
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_01: This is, to me, one of the most versatile products.
• 11:05
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not going to say it's what everybody loves,
• 11:08
  SPEAKER_01: but I think it's a great place for people to start.
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_01: And in the end,
• 11:13
  SPEAKER_01: it's the place that most people finish as well because there's a lot of fun
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_01: to be had.
• 11:19
  SPEAKER_00: One of my big bugbears with a lot of these toys is too many buttons.
• 11:23
  SPEAKER_00: There's too many buttons.
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know how many it's got, but I can't deal with more than one or two maximum.
• 11:29
  SPEAKER_00: When it goes to three, I get upset.
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, I don't know what I'm meant to be doing now.
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_01: Well, you only have to use the one button to control.
• 11:36
  SPEAKER_01: The others are for the heating and cooling, the warming and cooling.
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_01: So and I find that most people are more into the warming.
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_01: So they're only using that one.
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_01: I agree with you, too.
• 11:47
  SPEAKER_01: And I think for people who are new, you don't have to get all the bells and whistles.
• 11:51
  SPEAKER_01: Like you mentioned that so many of the products are app enabled.
• 11:53
  SPEAKER_01: And that's amazing.
• 11:55
  SPEAKER_01: Like I have all the WeVibe products, which are all app enabled.
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_01: Well, pretty much all of them.
• 11:59
  SPEAKER_01: But you don't always have to use the app, right?
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_01: Like I don't know if you're familiar with one called the Chorus Pro where we have
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_01: a remote control that's intuitive.
• 12:07
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you just squeeze it to increase.
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_01: Like I don't want to think.
• 12:11
  SPEAKER_01: I don't want to do math.
• 12:13
  SPEAKER_01: I just get to squeeze intuitively with the Chorus Pro and increase that intensity or release.
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_01: So the tech is getting better and better.
• 12:21
  SPEAKER_01: It's getting more accessible.
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_01: And if you're brand new to it, you probably do want to pick something that does one thing.
• 12:27
  SPEAKER_01: Like it doesn't have to also do your dishes and mow your lawn.
• 12:31
  SPEAKER_01: Just the one thing.
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_00: No, and I have to say with the Chorus Pro,
• 12:35
  SPEAKER_00: what I really like about that is the little remote that it comes
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_00: with is quite squishy.
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_00: It's almost like a stress ball.
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_00: It's really nice.
• 12:43
  SPEAKER_00: And I gave it to a partner and he loved it.
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_00: He really loved it.
• 12:49
  SPEAKER_00: And he loved the way he could just squish it and make me kind of go, ah!
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_00: It was amazing.
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_00: It was amazing, actually.
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_00: The thing I liked about it was that I'm not very good with things
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_00: that are overly complicated, especially when it comes to the remote stuff.
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes I find it a bit challenging.
• 13:07
  SPEAKER_00: You have to turn this one on,
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_00: then you have to turn And this one on, then you have to match it and Bluetooth it.
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_00: It can get quite complex.
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_00: But actually that one I found really, really simple.
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_00: It's nice.
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_00: I'm one of the best couples toys.
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_00: And I don't know if you agree with me,
• 13:20
  SPEAKER_00: but I think some of those couples toys are a really nice way to start
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_00: because they are not intimidating at all.
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_01: For sure.
• 13:27
  SPEAKER_01: When I am dealing with a couple who's never used anything or one partner who wants
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_01: to bring a product in and they're not sure how the other partner is going
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_01: to respond...
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_01: I usually ask them, number one, what type of sex do they normally have?
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_01: So if they're having, for example, like penis and vagina sex, I'm usually recommending a ring.
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_01: Because you kind of just pop it on,
• 13:47
  SPEAKER_01: it vibrates for both of you,
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_01: and you don't actually have to change the type of sex you're having.
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_01: You don't have to think about it.
• 13:53
  SPEAKER_01: It can be worn at any angle.
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_01: I'm holding here the pivot two,
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_01: which I would say between the pivot and the wave, those are kind of my top two.
• 14:01
  SPEAKER_01: The chorus is yours,
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_01: and a lot of clients like the chorus pro,
• 14:05
  SPEAKER_01: but the pivot two also, you just put it on.
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_01: I joke around.
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_01: It's like set it and forget it.
• 14:10
  SPEAKER_01: It's there.
• 14:11
  SPEAKER_01: You do what you do, and it just vibes for more intensity.
• 14:15
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes I find the rings a little bit challenging because either they slip around
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_00: or they're too tight.
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_00: If you've got a standard size, whatever that is.
• 14:25
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 14:25
  SPEAKER_01: And so I think like when I hold it, it looks small, but it's very stretchy.
• 14:29
  SPEAKER_01: And if you've used this one,
• 14:31
  SPEAKER_01: it has this angled side here that ensures that you can wear it in any position,
• 14:36
  SPEAKER_01: but also it's not going to slip and move around.
• 14:38
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, nice.
• 14:39
  SPEAKER_00: No, I haven't seen that one.
• 14:41
  SPEAKER_00: And then you mentioned,
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_00: and I was talking about,
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_00: is it WeVibe, which is the one that does air pleasure technology?
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_01: Originally was with Womanizer, but the WeVibe Melt also uses the Pleasure Air technology.
• 14:54
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah,
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_00: which is a very different sensation if you're used to a straightforward vibration
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_00: that most toys will deliver.
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_00: It's more of a kind of fluttering feeling, I would say, than a kind of intense vibration.
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_00: Although the fluttering can get more and more intense with the vibration sitting underneath.
• 15:19
  SPEAKER_00: Very difficult to describe.
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 15:21
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I have one here.
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_01: So it has this opening that sort of sits around the head of the clit and many
• 15:29
  SPEAKER_01: of them come with different size openings because some people don't like
• 15:33
  SPEAKER_01: the direct contact against the head of the clit.
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_01: And then of course, some people's clit will protrude more than others.
• 15:39
  SPEAKER_01: I'm sure you've talked about the whole anatomy in the past,
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_01: but some people will have a head of the clit that's more visible and
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_01: then some will hide more Under the foreskin,
• 15:51
  SPEAKER_01: we can see thinning of the foreskin,
• 15:53
  SPEAKER_01: different sensations,
• 15:55
  SPEAKER_01: even discomfort with movement of the foreskin, meaning the hood of the clit.
• 15:59
  SPEAKER_01: I know when people hear foreskin,
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_01: they think penis, but I spend a lot more time talking about the clitoris, of course.
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, I'm loving your little, are these like pillow-shaped objects here?
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 16:11
  SPEAKER_01: This is my vulva pillow.
• 16:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 16:13
  SPEAKER_01: So the vulva being everything on the outside.
• 16:15
  SPEAKER_01: I love that.
• 16:16
  SPEAKER_01: I know you know,
• 16:17
  SPEAKER_01: but if anyone needs a refresher that,
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_01: much of the clit is actually internal,
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_01: which is why the technology that vibes very deeply or
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_01: that push-pull sensation you talked about with pleasure air from Womanizer,
• 16:31
  SPEAKER_01: it's creating this corollary sensation on the inside for the legs and the bulbs of
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_01: the clit.
• 16:38
  SPEAKER_01: And of course the clit has been very understudied.
• 16:40
  SPEAKER_01: It was only in the last few months that they did a proper 3D dissection to look at
• 16:45
  SPEAKER_00: the nerve pathways.
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_00: I knew.
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_01: Caught in school,
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_01: about 8,000 nerve endings in the head of the clit actually came from a cow study,
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_01: a bovine study.
• 16:58
  SPEAKER_01: And then we've learned from the penis because they're homologous in
• 17:03
  SPEAKER_01: that they're derived from the same tissue in utero.
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_01: But we don't learn that the clitoris also gets erections because they're not visible.
• 17:11
  SPEAKER_01: They may not be discernible to the touch.
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_01: But on the inside,
• 17:15
  SPEAKER_01: you're getting these clitoral erections,
• 17:16
  SPEAKER_01: which is why,
• 17:18
  SPEAKER_01: just like we see penises don't always get erections whenever they want them,
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_01: Except when you're really young, you get them when you don't want them.
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_01: As we go through life, we get them less often.
• 17:27
  SPEAKER_01: But similarly, we can probably draw homologous conclusions about the clit.
• 17:31
  SPEAKER_01: So we need all of these different functions in the body to be firing on all fronts
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_01: for sexual arousal, for pleasure, and for orgasm, if that's what you want to have.
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, there was a really great article that I shared the other day
• 17:45
  SPEAKER_00: of some studies around orgasms,
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_00: for example,
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_00: which was really fascinating because, again,
• 17:51
  SPEAKER_00: there's been so little information up until quite recently around the clitoris,
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_00: how female orgasm works, the idea of multiple orgasms, like is that real?
• 18:03
  SPEAKER_00: Is that not real?
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_00: What does it actually mean?
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_00: The way women describe orgasms is very different as well.
• 18:11
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_00: Obviously,
• 18:34
  SPEAKER_00: one of the big things that comes up a lot is the change in our libido
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_00: or physical functions as we age.
• 18:40
  SPEAKER_00: And how do you think that toys can really help to bridge that gap?
• 18:44
  SPEAKER_01: I think what we learn as we get older,
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_01: if we're lucky,
• 18:47
  SPEAKER_01: is that desire isn't something that just spontaneously smacks us across the face.
• 18:52
  SPEAKER_01: We often have the desire for desire,
• 18:55
  SPEAKER_01: but we have to create desire,
• 18:57
  SPEAKER_01: meaning many of us don't experience subjective desire in our minds
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_01: until we become physically aroused in our bodies.
• 19:07
  SPEAKER_01: Models around sexual response started with desire,
• 19:10
  SPEAKER_01: then arousal, then plateau, then orgasm, then resolution.
• 19:13
  SPEAKER_01: But what we now recognize is that over time with age,
• 19:17
  SPEAKER_01: with relationship longevity,
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_01: and just with variances between people,
• 19:21
  SPEAKER_01: we don't necessarily have desire before arousal.
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_01: Sometimes we have to get physically aroused before the brain says, oh yeah, sex, that thing.
• 19:31
  SPEAKER_01: I'd like to do that thing.
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_01: I'm experiencing desire.
• 19:33
  SPEAKER_01: And so toys are one way to do that.
• 19:35
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know,
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_01: sometimes you're not going to be in the mood and you can simply say,
• 19:39
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not in the mood.
• 19:39
  SPEAKER_01: I'm going to bed.
• 19:40
  SPEAKER_01: But other times you're not in the mood and you kind of wish you could get in
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_01: the mood and you might say,
• 19:44
  SPEAKER_01: you know what, let's reach for that and see where it takes me.
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_01: Again, it's not a hundred, you're not going to bat a thousand, right?
• 19:52
  SPEAKER_01: Sometimes it's going to work for you.
• 19:53
  SPEAKER_01: Sometimes it isn't.
• 19:55
  SPEAKER_01: And as importantly as trying new things and novelty
• 19:58
  SPEAKER_01: and communication Is giving yourself grace, right?
• 20:01
  SPEAKER_01: So your body,
• 20:02
  SPEAKER_01: your mind,
• 20:03
  SPEAKER_01: your soul,
• 20:04
  SPEAKER_01: they're not always going to align exactly where you want them every single day.
• 20:08
  SPEAKER_01: And I think hopefully with age,
• 20:10
  SPEAKER_01: we learn to give ourselves more leeway, more grace, more patience.
• 20:14
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes we just have to trust that our body is going to respond to...
• 20:20
  SPEAKER_00: To physical pleasure, to that toy, to whatever's happening, right?
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, sure,
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_00: if we say, oh,
• 20:29
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not sure tonight,
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_00: and then our partner says, oh,
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 20:33
  SPEAKER_00: I'm just so horny,
• 20:34
  SPEAKER_00: and I really want you,
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_00: and you just look so hot,
• 20:37
  SPEAKER_00: and giving you all that positive reinforcement,
• 20:40
  SPEAKER_00: and then you start getting going – Oftentimes,
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_00: that's when it kicks in and you go, oh, actually, I am enjoying this.
• 20:49
  SPEAKER_00: But I do find that a lot of women at my age don't trust themselves.
• 20:53
  SPEAKER_00: They don't actually trust themselves to feel that.
• 20:56
  SPEAKER_00: They just stop at the point where they're at, which is, I don't think it's coming back.
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 21:34
  SPEAKER_01: Number one, I have to say the sex has to be good first.
• 21:37
  SPEAKER_01: So it's very hard to want to put yourself in that vulnerable,
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_01: pushing over your comfort zone space if the sex that you're having
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_01: with somebody else isn't that satisfying.
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_01: So oftentimes we don't push ourselves because we see sex as something we do
• 21:53
  SPEAKER_01: to please others as opposed to something we do to please ourselves.
• 21:57
  SPEAKER_01: So first and foremost, we have to take pleasure into our own hands.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: We have to frame it in a way that works for ourselves.
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_01: We have to have the capacity to communicate what that looks like,
• 22:05
  SPEAKER_01: how that feels,
• 22:06
  SPEAKER_01: what that entails emotionally, mentally, relationally, and physically.
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_01: So it's not as simple as, oh, I'd like you to touch me with a W against the vulva.
• 22:17
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, but how did you talk to me earlier today?
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_01: Have we worked on some of those grooves we've created or managed some of the resentment?
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_01: So there's a lot that has to lead up to that point, first and foremost.
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_01: The pleasure has to be there.
• 22:31
  SPEAKER_01: We have to have a partner who knows how to Give us pleasure in and out of the bedroom.
• 22:37
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not saying it's their responsibility,
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_01: but if they're going to be there, they've got to play a role.
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_01: If you're going to be there, you might as well be doing something I'm not just doing myself.
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_01: Otherwise, I might as well do it myself.
• 22:46
  SPEAKER_01: And then thirdly, there's a piece, I think, around shame.
• 22:50
  SPEAKER_01: And shame is tied to identity.
• 22:51
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, it's tied to being a woman.
• 22:53
  SPEAKER_01: It can be tied to age.
• 22:54
  SPEAKER_01: It can be tied to other layers of our identity.
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_01: And it doesn't oftentimes get easier as we get older.
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_01: In fact, the messaging for older women is that oftentimes we're supposed to give it up, right?
• 23:05
  SPEAKER_01: We're allowed to joke with our friends, you know, I'm fine to never have sex again.
• 23:09
  SPEAKER_01: But if you're the one saying actually like sex is super important to me,
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_01: you're oftentimes the standout.
• 23:15
  SPEAKER_01: And so I think what you're doing is the beginning of it, right?
• 23:18
  SPEAKER_01: You're starting those conversations.
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_01: You're creating space for that.
• 23:22
  SPEAKER_01: But I would say that if people self-pleasured,
• 23:24
  SPEAKER_01: they'd probably discover new pathways to pleasure and be able to parlay that into
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_01: a partnered relationship or partnered experience.
• 23:33
  SPEAKER_00: There are people I know who have never masturbated
• 23:35
  SPEAKER_00: and I don't really know how they communicate what they like to other people
• 23:39
  SPEAKER_00: when they don't know what they like themselves.
• 23:41
  SPEAKER_00: So there is a lot of shame for women around masturbation.
• 23:47
  SPEAKER_00: I guess I've become more cognizant about it recently
• 23:51
  SPEAKER_00: that certain people are very comfortable in talking about sex,
• 23:56
  SPEAKER_00: whether it's sexting,
• 23:58
  SPEAKER_00: whether it's just, oh, here's what I'd really enjoy doing with you.
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_00: I'm thinking about this.
• 24:04
  SPEAKER_00: How does that like resonate with you?
• 24:06
  SPEAKER_00: Do you get off on that?
• 24:08
  SPEAKER_00: And some people are desperately uncomfortable with that, right?
• 24:11
  SPEAKER_00: Being able to talk about sex before you have sex is so hot and Yeah.
• 24:18
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 24:19
  SPEAKER_01: And it's hard to develop that skill.
• 24:21
  SPEAKER_01: It can be hard later in life.
• 24:23
  SPEAKER_01: But I think we have to think about what are the benefits of doing so and what are
• 24:27
  SPEAKER_01: the consequences of not.
• 24:29
  SPEAKER_01: We have to acknowledge that I'm not saying sex is the source of this,
• 24:32
  SPEAKER_01: but we have a really significant rise.
• 24:39
  SPEAKER_01: And
• 24:43
  SPEAKER_01: again, sex is not the only factor, but it plays a role.
• 24:47
  SPEAKER_01: It is a singular factor that differentiates an intimate relationship or a marriage
• 24:51
  SPEAKER_01: or a partnership from all the other relationships we have.
• 24:54
  SPEAKER_01: It doesn't necessarily have to be hierarchical.
• 24:56
  SPEAKER_01: But listen, I'm a sexologist.
• 24:59
  SPEAKER_01: It's not that I think sex is the most important thing.
• 25:01
  SPEAKER_01: I think we've made it the most important thing by not talking about it.
• 25:04
  SPEAKER_01: It's the absence of conversation that really leads to struggles,
• 25:08
  SPEAKER_01: that leads to frustration, that eventually builds resentment.
• 25:11
  SPEAKER_01: And it is very hard to have love and affection and care when there's resentment.
• 25:15
  SPEAKER_01: And so if you opt out of sex,
• 25:18
  SPEAKER_01: for example,
• 25:18
  SPEAKER_01: you're in a relationship and you opt out, that's absolutely your prerogative.
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_01: You don't have to be having sex.
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_01: We do have some data.
• 25:27
  SPEAKER_01: So I think we just need to think about,
• 25:35
  SPEAKER_01: listen, this makes me super uncomfortable, but I'm going to try it.
• 25:38
  SPEAKER_01: And when you're approaching a partner,
• 25:39
  SPEAKER_01: if you can do that with curiosity,
• 25:41
  SPEAKER_01: without accusation, really just be able to say, listen, I love you so much.
• 25:45
  SPEAKER_01: I want to live out another decade,
• 25:48
  SPEAKER_01: two decades, three decades, four decades, whatever it is with you.
• 25:52
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not comfortable talking about this.
• 25:53
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't grow up talking about this, but I think we should try.
• 25:56
  SPEAKER_01: And it doesn't have to be perfect, right?
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_00: Like you're allowed to
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_01: say the wrong thing.
• 26:01
  SPEAKER_01: You're allowed to laugh.
• 26:02
  SPEAKER_01: You're allowed to not have the words.
• 26:03
  SPEAKER_01: You're allowed to argue.
• 26:05
  SPEAKER_01: Like conflict around this is also okay.
• 26:07
  SPEAKER_01: So, yeah.
• 26:30
  SPEAKER_00: 100%.
• 26:31
  SPEAKER_00: And like you said, a lot of it goes to embarrassment.
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_00: We didn't get educated when it comes to talking about sex.
• 26:38
  SPEAKER_00: Communicating about sex that you've never done it before can feel incredibly uncomfortable.
• 26:43
  SPEAKER_00: I know that as a person who is not involved in serious relationships,
• 26:48
  SPEAKER_00: it's much easier when there's less risk attached.
• 26:51
  SPEAKER_00: When you've just met somebody and you're exploring whether this is going to work
• 26:56
  SPEAKER_00: or Talking about sex can actually be a really great way to bridge that,
• 27:01
  SPEAKER_00: do I want to get to know you or are we still kind of like,
• 27:06
  SPEAKER_00: is this not really going to gel?
• 27:07
  SPEAKER_00: So I always say to people, if you're just out of a relationship and you're Going dating.
• 27:12
  SPEAKER_00: Get to those sex talks early on because those conversations will help you
• 27:18
  SPEAKER_00: to discover whether or not you're going to want to pursue a relationship
• 27:23
  SPEAKER_00: with this person.
• 27:24
  SPEAKER_00: If somebody is like desperately submissive and you're not a terribly dominant person
• 27:29
  SPEAKER_00: or you're both submissive, as is often I find the case with all the men I meet.
• 27:34
  SPEAKER_00: They want to be submissive.
• 27:36
  SPEAKER_00: I want to be submissive.
• 27:37
  SPEAKER_00: It's like two desperate people pleasers trying desperately hard.
• 27:43
  SPEAKER_00: It's kind of difficult, you know?
• 27:45
  SPEAKER_01: I think the conversation should be messy.
• 27:47
  SPEAKER_01: Again, we have this idea that sex ought to be perfect.
• 27:51
  SPEAKER_01: When something goes wrong,
• 27:52
  SPEAKER_01: when something's even minimally awry, we kind of hang our heads in shame.
• 27:57
  SPEAKER_01: We have all the This is silence that further feeds the shame.
• 28:01
  SPEAKER_01: Whereas if we just came out with the tiniest bit of curiosity and willingness
• 28:05
  SPEAKER_01: to be imperfect, we start to dissolve away at that shame, right?
• 28:09
  SPEAKER_01: Like this doesn't have to be an overnight transformation whereby you've never talked
• 28:12
  SPEAKER_01: about sex and tomorrow you go have the most voluminous conversation ever.
• 28:16
  SPEAKER_01: It could just be something like a small exploration that's gentle and gradual
• 28:22
  SPEAKER_01: and isn't about impressing anyone.
• 28:25
  SPEAKER_01: You mentioned this differentiation between The cost or the risk
• 28:29
  SPEAKER_01: of having this conversation in a long-term partnership versus with someone new.
• 28:34
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that we all have to go in regardless of whether it's a first date or
• 28:38
  SPEAKER_01: a hookup or, you know, the love of your life.
• 28:41
  SPEAKER_01: The goal doesn't have to be to impress.
• 28:43
  SPEAKER_01: It really is about feeling more connected to yourself,
• 28:45
  SPEAKER_01: more connected to your partner and building pleasure and play for a lifetime.
• 28:50
  SPEAKER_01: Because I don't think you'd want to give up pleasure.
• 28:52
  SPEAKER_01: I don't think you'd want to give up the pleasure of laughter or conversation
• 28:57
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm sure you talk a lot about longevity
• 29:00
  SPEAKER_01: and sexuality is obviously very much tied to that.
• 29:15
  SPEAKER_00: Totally.
• 29:15
  SPEAKER_00: For any couples who are wondering, how do I have that first conversation?
• 29:19
  SPEAKER_00: Here's my suggestion.
• 29:21
  SPEAKER_00: You can just say, you know what?
• 29:24
  SPEAKER_00: I was listening to this funny old podcast,
• 29:26
  SPEAKER_00: this crazy woman, Suzanne Noble, who does Sex Advice for Seniors.
• 29:31
  SPEAKER_00: And she was talking with this doctor, this sexologist called Jesse Riley.
• 29:35
  SPEAKER_00: And they brought out this pebble-shaped thing that looks so cool.
• 29:40
  SPEAKER_00: And I thought maybe we might want to check it out.
• 29:46
  SPEAKER_00: What do you think?
• 29:47
  SPEAKER_00: Right?
• 29:48
  SPEAKER_00: Like referring to something you heard,
• 29:51
  SPEAKER_00: something you read,
• 29:52
  SPEAKER_00: something that's not directly involved in some research that you went off
• 29:56
  SPEAKER_00: and did yourself to make it look like you were dissatisfied.
• 30:00
  SPEAKER_00: But you just happened to be in our orbit.
• 30:04
  SPEAKER_00: And we just happened to discuss some toys that you might really enjoy.
• 30:10
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know,
• 30:11
  SPEAKER_00: they're all readily available from Love Honey,
• 30:14
  SPEAKER_00: from Womanizer, from WeVibe, all really good, super safe, really nice products.
• 30:22
  SPEAKER_00: Like, they're not shit.
• 30:23
  SPEAKER_00: They're going to last.
• 30:25
  SPEAKER_00: And you know what?
• 30:26
  SPEAKER_00: If that's the thing that is going to take you
• 30:28
  SPEAKER_00: from having your slightly dissatisfied situation in the bedroom
• 30:34
  SPEAKER_00: to opening up this world of pleasure, then we are happy to take responsibility.
• 30:39
  SPEAKER_00: Are we not?
• 30:40
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 30:41
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 30:41
  SPEAKER_01: I always say, blame me.
• 30:42
  SPEAKER_01: Blame me.
• 30:43
  SPEAKER_01: They're like, how do I talk about this?
• 30:45
  SPEAKER_01: Say you heard it, you read it, you saw me.
• 30:47
  SPEAKER_01: Blame someone else and ask them how they feel.
• 30:49
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I like the way you phrased it, right?
• 30:51
  SPEAKER_01: I heard about this thing.
• 30:52
  SPEAKER_01: What do you think?
• 30:54
  SPEAKER_01: Right?
• 30:54
  SPEAKER_01: And remember that first answer isn't always the last answer.
• 30:57
  SPEAKER_01: Sometimes people will respond in the moment with resistance or, you know, discomfort or fear.
• 31:02
  SPEAKER_01: And then oftentimes we come around.
• 31:04
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 31:05
  SPEAKER_00: So don't take your first no as a no is your advice.
• 31:09
  SPEAKER_00: Just might be a no-ish maybe.
• 31:11
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, with yourself.
• 31:12
  SPEAKER_01: And again, it's not about pressuring people.
• 31:14
  SPEAKER_01: I recognize that you speak from this rich experience.
• 31:18
  SPEAKER_01: And I want to be really clear that I'm framed as an expert,
• 31:21
  SPEAKER_01: but I'm not an expert in anybody's experience.
• 31:24
  SPEAKER_01: Every single person here is the ultimate expert in their own experience.
• 31:27
  SPEAKER_01: So there's no data,
• 31:30
  SPEAKER_01: there's no doctor,
• 31:31
  SPEAKER_01: there's no expert who can tell you what you should feel or how you will respond.
• 31:37
  SPEAKER_01: So if you have an experience,
• 31:38
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's okay to sit in it and Are you finding
• 31:40
  SPEAKER_01: that more friends are having these conversations now?
• 31:48
  SPEAKER_00: Definitely.
• 31:49
  SPEAKER_00: And just for everybody's information,
• 31:51
  SPEAKER_00: one of the other little tools that I actually created as a little online app is
• 31:55
  SPEAKER_00: the Yes, No, Maybe checklist as a little app.
• 31:58
  SPEAKER_00: Fun.
• 31:59
  SPEAKER_00: Which is just a way that you can open up the conversation with your partner
• 32:02
  SPEAKER_00: without actually having to feel very embarrassed.
• 32:05
  SPEAKER_00: And what it does,
• 32:06
  SPEAKER_00: which I thought was really nice,
• 32:08
  SPEAKER_00: is, and I get no profit, no money, no nothing from this.
• 32:11
  SPEAKER_00: I'm just doing this because it's a nice thing for me to do.
• 32:14
  SPEAKER_00: You take the questionnaire and You put yes, no,
• 32:17
  SPEAKER_00: maybe for this whole list of activities,
• 32:19
  SPEAKER_00: sexual activities with whether you like to give or receive.
• 32:23
  SPEAKER_00: Then you switch to the partner.
• 32:24
  SPEAKER_00: And then when it shows the results,
• 32:27
  SPEAKER_00: it only shows you the results where you both got a yes or when one of you got a yes
• 32:32
  SPEAKER_00: and a maybe.
• 32:33
  SPEAKER_00: And where can people get that?
• 32:35
  SPEAKER_01: What is it called?
• 32:36
  SPEAKER_00: It's called yesnomaby.sexadviceforseniors.com.
• 32:41
  SPEAKER_00: That's what it's called.
• 32:42
  SPEAKER_00: And anyone can just go and access it and do it with their partner.
• 32:45
  SPEAKER_00: It's super fun.
• 32:46
  SPEAKER_00: It's like a little game.
• 32:47
  SPEAKER_00: And it's a way to discover more about your partner without having
• 32:51
  SPEAKER_00: to have those awkward conversations.
• 32:53
  SPEAKER_00: I love it.
• 32:54
  SPEAKER_00: I love it.
• 32:55
  SPEAKER_00: I know.
• 32:56
  SPEAKER_00: I'm really happy and excited about it.
• 32:57
  SPEAKER_00: I'm probably going to develop it to do a few more things.
• 32:59
  SPEAKER_00: But anyway,
• 33:00
  SPEAKER_00: we didn't get to the Enhance,
• 33:02
  SPEAKER_00: which do you want to show me what it looks like right now?
• 33:04
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, we have to send this one to you.
• 33:06
  SPEAKER_01: So it's also a Womanizer product.
• 33:10
  SPEAKER_01: So it looks different than the others because you're not changing the head like
• 33:13
  SPEAKER_01: on this one, but it has a deeper and lighter sensation.
• 33:18
  SPEAKER_01: So it has a broader range of sensations and it's still going to work over the head
• 33:24
  SPEAKER_01: of the clitoris around it.
• 33:26
  SPEAKER_01: And so a lot of people who have difficulty with orgasm are finding that, listen,
• 33:32
  SPEAKER_01: I never want to talk about quick fixes,
• 33:34
  SPEAKER_01: but that's the way this one keeps being described.
• 33:37
  SPEAKER_01: So worth a try.
• 33:39
  SPEAKER_00: Cool.
• 33:39
  SPEAKER_00: That is the Enhance.
• 33:41
  SPEAKER_00: I am definitely going to look out for that.
• 33:43
  SPEAKER_00: I might actually have it in my big box.
• 33:45
  SPEAKER_01: I think Womanizer has sent you some products in the past, I'm sure.
• 33:50
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah, this is the new Womanizer Enhance.
• 33:52
  SPEAKER_00: Definitely.
• 33:53
  SPEAKER_00: I've had stuff.
• 33:53
  SPEAKER_00: Anyway, it's been lovely to chat to you.
• 33:55
  SPEAKER_00: Have a lovely day in Barcelona.
• 33:58
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
• 34:18
  SPEAKER_00: Fancy a deep dive after this episode?
• 34:22
  SPEAKER_00: Pop over to sexadviceforseniors.com,
• 34:26
  SPEAKER_00: the spot for stories, advice, and I can guarantee a good laugh or two.
• 34:31
  SPEAKER_00: And maybe discover something new about yourself at sexadviceforseniors.com.