Latest / The FEEL Podcast: Women’s Empowerment, Emotional Wellness and Self-Leadership with Melissa Crook / Clear Expectations: Leading With Equity, Mentorship & Self-Worth with Chotsani Williams West

Transcript

Clear Expectations: Leading With Equity, Mentorship & Self-Worth with Chotsani Williams West · The FEEL Podcast: Women’s Empowerment, Emotional Wellness and Self-Leadership with Melissa Crook

• 0:10
  Hello, feel podcast audience. I I know I say this a lot and
• 0:16
  you're all like oh she's excited again but I'm truly really,
• 0:19
  really like you guys have heard me talk about when I started the
• 0:23
  podcast, I had like three to five people that were at the top
• 0:26
  of my list that I 1000% wanted to have.
• 0:30
  Have as my guest. And this person was in that top
• 0:34
  three to five heard from a couple of those already.
• 0:37
  You've got to hear from dr. Bernadine Waller and back in the
• 0:42
  fall. And now you're hearing from
• 0:45
  chachani West today and I thought he's gonna be a doctor
• 0:49
  soon to. So, I am excited to hear from
• 0:52
  her about that. I met Connie during our time, on
• 0:57
  Long Island. And when my Brady was working at
• 1:01
  Adelphi University and I got involved in the mentoring
• 1:04
  program at Adelphi University and at the time chessani was
• 1:09
  heading up that mentoring program, she continues much more
• 1:13
  important work at a Delphi to this day.
• 1:15
  I believe we'll catch up on that as we talk through but that's
• 1:18
  where I first met Chuck funny when I signed up to be part of
• 1:20
  the mentoring program. This woman is like mentoring is
• 1:24
  our like she's got. She's the mentoring whisper,
• 1:27
  like she can like match people up.
• 1:30
  And sometimes when with mentees and it just is Magic.
• 1:34
  And so that is what we had a longer journey to finding my
• 1:40
  match. But once we did it, whoops and
• 1:43
  to this day, I'm in contact with that person, you all they have
• 1:47
  been with us from the beginning. No her it's Valencia Saint
• 1:50
  Louis. She helped me cope down this
• 1:52
  podcast. It was my first editor producer
• 1:56
  which he went on to other full-time work.
• 1:59
  She brought on And and help me find another editor.
• 2:02
  Producer Jermaine usually went to school with the developed by.
• 2:06
  And now, her brother Rio is our editor producer.
• 2:09
  So, Valencia continues to have a vast impact on this podcast.
• 2:13
  That our work here, and she's actually working on a little
• 2:16
  project for me right now that I am not quite ready to reveal
• 2:20
  yet. Hopefully we'll be able to real
• 2:22
  great, lets you and if not and in our fall season all that to
• 2:25
  say without truck funny, none of this happened.
• 2:27
  So we're very likely not even talking to your 210 and had not
• 2:33
  connected me with Valencia. And chachani is just she is one
• 2:38
  of those people you meet her and you automatically feel like
• 2:41
  you're the only one in the room. She is so intentional and kind
• 2:46
  but wise and smart and doesn't take any garbage.
• 2:50
  But does it in a way that so Diplomatic but direct but never
• 2:57
  without kindness. I think she is just a masterful
• 3:00
  combination of all these beautiful traits.
• 3:04
  She describes herself character trait wise as creative,
• 3:07
  determined and intentional and all those things are so true.
• 3:12
  Chad, Sunny, thank you so much for being with me today.
• 3:14
  We've been trying to do this for so long.
• 3:16
  I'm so excited. Thank you Melissa for having me.
• 3:20
  This is a treat, I am just so Overjoyed by your warm and so,
• 3:26
  so beautiful. Welcome.
• 3:27
  I'm blushing. And smiling from ear to ear and
• 3:31
  I just, I just so appreciate the way that you have described our
• 3:36
  journey and, you know, the feeling is mutual and I had no
• 3:39
  idea that Valencia has really taken on the, the I'm just
• 3:47
  overjoyed and then Jermaine, and this is just confirmation that
• 3:52
  when You're doing what you're supposed to do and you're in
• 3:55
  alignment with your life's work, it just it goes on.
• 4:00
  The story goes on forever. So thank you for that such a
• 4:03
  happy here absolutely doesn't. I think it's fun when you're a
• 4:06
  part of a journey like that to hear about that because we don't
• 4:08
  always get the chance to go back and tell people.
• 4:11
  Hey thanks for that connection. Guess what?
• 4:13
  Five years later this is what we're this is what we've
• 4:16
  collaborated on. This is how we relationship
• 4:18
  looks. So I'm so glad that I get to
• 4:20
  share that with you. Well, you You are going to have
• 4:23
  so much to give to us today. I'm so excited to jump into this
• 4:26
  conversation but let's start out with this one.
• 4:29
  And shuts honey is a busy busy woman.
• 4:32
  She has a very important role as I talked about earlier and
• 4:35
  Adelphi University, she has an equally if not more important
• 4:39
  role as a mom and a partner and a woman in the community making
• 4:43
  a difference in the world. So talk to me.
• 4:45
  Trots on me about how you prioritize self-care in your
• 4:48
  life and what that looks like for you.
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  Yes. So I'll be I'll be fine.
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  Fully transparent and say that my self-care routine over the
• 4:57
  last few years, could use a little sprucing up.
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  I've got to go back to to what I did years ago, which was to
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  really carve out the time on my calendar to be strategic about
• 5:13
  the time, and I was really good at that, whether it was, you
• 5:17
  know, resting going to a Broadway show, listening to me.
• 5:22
  Zeke dancing. Just centering and being still
• 5:26
  in prayer and meditation. And all of those things that I
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  mentioned are very much a part of my self care.
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  And so I've got to get back to it.
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  So these days my self care is really looking like time in the
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  car, you know having those Quiet Moments before turning on talk
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  radio news radio and just Listening to birds as I'm
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  driving my thinking, about my day reflecting on, you know, I'm
• 6:01
  being very grateful for whatever.
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  I was able to get accomplished that day or I set my sights to
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  adding it to the new list that has to get started and intended
• 6:15
  to most readily the next day. And so for me, it's taken
• 6:19
  different shapes, you know. Because of the pace that my life
• 6:25
  has has had over the last few years.
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  As you mentioned, I assume hope to see the light at the end of
• 6:33
  the tunnel for my doctorate and so anyone who has been on that
• 6:39
  journey is well aware, that balance is not always achievable
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  and when it is it doesn't look like what you used to know it to
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  be. And so, you've really got to
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  stay Steal those moments. And you know when I'm able to do
• 6:57
  more than you know have those moments in the car, I will
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  literally go to a nearby park sin, Maya Pond and watch the
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  water. Watch the the, you know, nature
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  and just sit and people-watch, you know, literally have to say,
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  okay, I've got to to do that. I teach a class in art class in
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  the evenings. And thankfully, it's On a
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  beautiful landscape, you know, has a beautiful landscape before
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  you enter into the space. And so now with it, staying
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  lighter longer after the class is over and the children have
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  packed up, their art supplies, and in everything, I literally
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  will sit on a bench and just take a deep breath and if I am
• 7:45
  not strategic about that, then I can easily just say, oh well,
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  I'll push self-care. Care or quiet, time to the next
• 7:54
  day. And that's not okay because, you
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  know, you know, and theory that if you're not good to yourself,
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  you're not good to anyone else and you know, that you can't
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  pour from an empty vessel. We've got all those things down.
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  Pat. Yeah.
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  So but but putting it into practice is really, you know,
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  something you have to, you have to fight for it.
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  Yeah, you do have to fight for it, especially in this season's
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  that you're in. You're just in a very busy
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  season right now. But I love what you said about
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  the time. The car just taking those Quiet
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  Moments, listening to the birds, you don't even have to
• 8:27
  manufacture that. It's just being intentional
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  about not being so quick to turn the radio on and just sit, you
• 8:34
  know, it taking that time that you already have.
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  You've already got a drive home from work.
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  You've got already drive to work, you've already got a drive
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  to get the kids or whatever it is maybe but being intentional
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  about that time that you do have and making the most of it is so
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  important and I love and that can in these busy.
• 8:52
  Reasons for you, busy women out there.
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  Think about that, think about, like if you're saying I don't
• 8:57
  have the time, think about okay? But what about when I'm on the
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  train or I'm in the car or I'm on the subway or you know what
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  can I put just put my headphones in and listen to bird sounds or
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  roll down the window or whatever that looks like taking that time
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  that you have already and making the most of it.
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  So I'm glad so glad you spoke to that because it is important.
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  And if we don't, if we aren't intentional about it, it's so
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  easy to put it on the back burner and then we No we all
• 9:23
  know what the cost of that is and that's not good for us or
• 9:26
  anybody that we're in company with that for sure.
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  Alright confidently setting boundaries.
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  How do you do this right now? Because you have so many
• 9:36
  directions you're getting pulled in.
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  So talk to me about setting boundaries and if that's even
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  something you're able to incorporate right now.
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  Yes. So I have been forced because I
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  I really don't think that if my Pace was different.
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  That I would be able to say no as often as I have been able to
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  and, you know, sometimes it's a no with a not right now,
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  sometimes said no with a hard period at the end of it, where I
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  just can't see how at this moment, stepping away, to even
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  wrap my brain, around anything new.
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  If the train is already at the station, I can't even you know,
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  figure out. Which way to fit it in.
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  And so when I have that knowing that I easy for me to set those
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  boundaries but really, I don't think that it's something that I
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  would do quite naturally on my own.
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  It's something that my schedule just does not allow.
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  And so I've learned the hard way that if you don't set your
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  intentions for the why of the thing that you're doing Doing
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  and the thing that you're saying yes to, you can easily get
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  yourself, you know, caught up in this sort of hamster.
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  Wheel. Yeah.
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  And then, you know, I really have learned that when I do say
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  no, it allows the opportunity for those.
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  Yes. Has to be even more precious,
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  you know, because it just frees me up to do things like this,
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  where I can be in Sisterhood I can be in fellowship with You
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  know like-minded people and you know and women who really helped
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  to you know equally uplift and equally Empower so for me saying
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  those knows allows time for moments like this where this is
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  a conversation that is going to be so long lasting in terms of
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  you know refreshing energy and and all of that.
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  And so that's that's how I've had to set my boundaries just
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  really Lee taking a pause and if it's not a hard, no it's
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  definitely. Well can't do it now.
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  But let's figure out when I can do it, where it's not such a
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  stretch because I always want to bring my best self to anything
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  that I'm doing and if you're, you know, running ragged or, you
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  know, you've got too many things happening, where you can even
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  think about what the next meeting is that you're going
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  into eight, that's not a Thing down and and it's pretty
• 12:25
  apparent. And so I just have learned that
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  taking a moment before saying yes, is very important but then
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  saying no to those things that just may not be, you know, for
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  the season. And that's, that's how I've had
• 12:43
  to kind of think about it. And it hasn't been easy LL say
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  that because I am a person of service but it also Mine's me
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  that you have to do things that you are that your purposeful
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  about. And if it's directly connected
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  to your purpose, then that's an easy.
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  Yes. But if it's something that
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  you're not quite sure, or that's really a far reach from what you
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  are, connecting your life's work to, then that's sort of an easy.
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  No. But I think the decision and
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  even sharing it with people. It has not been easy.
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  Yeah. And so That's that's how I
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  would. That's how I would answer that
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  question. I hope it was pretty clear as
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  clear as it could be. Yeah, absolutely.
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  Wasn't. I think you made an important
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  point to of like sometimes there's a No period and
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  sometimes there's a no later and being it and being willing to
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  say that too is like you know and being willing to communicate
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  that as like if you really want to do this thing it can be a no
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  later but if it's a no period, then the people need to respect
• 13:49
  that boundary but differentiating that you can
• 13:51
  have both and that's Okay, two depending on.
• 13:54
  But doesn't eat just because it's a no later saying, no and
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  doing it. Later is actually a respect of
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  giving the best quality version of yourself and your time that
• 14:04
  you can give to that thing, which is see you touched on to,
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  which is so important. All right, I know that you are a
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  big proponent of this as well. Taking care of our emotional
• 14:13
  health as much as our physical health.
• 14:15
  Talk to me about some practices that you use to help you with
• 14:19
  this about your journey with this, talk to me about that.
• 14:22
  Yes. So, it's no secret that I am a
• 14:25
  woman of faith and I am very, very clear about my prayer time.
• 14:31
  And so, for me, prioritizing that in the morning before, you
• 14:37
  know, the day gets really hectic helps to Center me.
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  It helps to keep me grounded. And then throughout the day, you
• 14:46
  know, not just the book end at the start of the day or the end
• 14:49
  of the day. All right?
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  Really just thinking about at the pace that I'm going.
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  And I always, and prayerful about, you know, sustaining the
• 15:00
  the quality of work then that I'm able to produce.
• 15:05
  I'm always prayerful about, you know, if you sometimes lose your
• 15:10
  words, I often say remove me and and allow, you know what it is
• 15:15
  that needs to be said and heard in that moment to come through
• 15:19
  me. And so that is a really Big and
• 15:23
  strong part of who I am and who I show up, you know in.
• 15:29
  Yeah, I'm has. And so that for me, has always
• 15:32
  been front and center and and I truthfully, don't think that I
• 15:36
  could do the work that I do without that grounding sure.
• 15:41
  Just because it's so challenging and many people while running
• 15:46
  away from some of the conversations that I have, you
• 15:50
  know, I'm stepping right into them.
• 15:52
  Yeah, I often say well, you know, while most people are
• 15:57
  running from the fire, I'm walking straight into it.
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  You know, sometimes the fire extinguisher is it is right
• 16:06
  there with you and sometimes you've got to let it burn for a
• 16:09
  minute before you you know you are able to address the matter
• 16:15
  at hand and that that is in my D IB work and amount erring work.
• 16:20
  It's it's all a part. Part of the work that I do, that
• 16:25
  is so transformative and it's life stuff.
• 16:28
  It's not so much of a transactional only experience,
• 16:34
  but it's so much more than that. And I know for a fact that if it
• 16:39
  were not for the way that I am prioritizing my mental health
• 16:45
  and, and my prayer time, there's no way I would be able to do the
• 16:49
  quality work. That I'm so fortunate to do.
• 16:54
  Yeah. So yeah an absolute and you do
• 16:57
  it with such intention like I said and such, I mean to meet
• 17:01
  Chats on E and engage with her is just to know her and to love
• 17:04
  her. I mean, I just, you know, it's
• 17:05
  just but if it's by being so intentional in the way that you
• 17:09
  are, that you're able to do that and show up that way and not
• 17:12
  have, you know the physical because it's the stuff you do.
• 17:15
  The touch the work. You do is tough.
• 17:16
  You are working in an environment that is not been
• 17:19
  traditionally DEA. Be friendly historically so are
• 17:25
  doing the hard work in that and that takes a toll.
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  If you don't have some good practices in place it will show
• 17:32
  up physically for you. I mean there's no way around it,
• 17:36
  mentoring side, same thing you're dealing with you know
• 17:39
  there are some mentees that are just there because they're just
• 17:42
  like they want somebody to guide them there's some entities that
• 17:44
  have some deeper harder stories and they need that that it that
• 17:49
  guidance and direction in. It's much more than just about
• 17:52
  Helping them get through college and then be some really intense
• 17:56
  conversations and matches and things that go with that.
• 17:59
  And this is your work every single day, every day and this
• 18:02
  is taking out the whole all of your life outside of work that
• 18:06
  has those components to it. So yeah.
• 18:08
  Can't emphasize enough the importance of these practices
• 18:11
  that you have that allows you enables you to feel well and
• 18:14
  good in every moment that you're working in.
• 18:17
  All right you are you are our champion at this but how we can
• 18:20
  support ourselves and other Men and living unapologetically.
• 18:25
  So I appreciate that that championship title.
• 18:30
  But I have to say that it's because I surround myself with
• 18:34
  women who we straighten each other up, you know, and not
• 18:40
  help. We help strengthen each other's
• 18:42
  back. And we'll say, listen, this is a
• 18:45
  crazy time for you. It's been that way for some
• 18:48
  time, just make sure that you're taking a moment, we'll send.
• 18:52
  You know, affirming quotes or scripture to each other?
• 18:56
  Sometimes it's a joke, sometimes it's a, you know, just checking
• 19:00
  in on you, sis. It's sometimes it's thinking
• 19:03
  about you, you know, and I'm still grateful that the women
• 19:07
  who I'm so blessed to to know, we do that for each other and
• 19:13
  so, whenever we are feeling less than Champion, like you get
• 19:19
  that. That little ping from someone
• 19:21
  who in The crazy thing is that, it's not always a phone call,
• 19:26
  because we just don't have the time to spend with each other,
• 19:29
  on the phone and we were in the supermarket or whatever it is.
• 19:34
  So, just that little exchange of saying, you know, how's it
• 19:39
  going? That is so so important.
• 19:43
  And one thing that I would be remiss if I didn't mention, I,
• 19:47
  you know, thinking about the physical part of myself care,
• 19:50
  dance is just so, So important for me walking is important and
• 19:56
  then because it's getting warmer in New York now, so I'll soon be
• 20:00
  able to, you know, take the bike out for a spin, but the most
• 20:04
  physical activities just helped my brain to sort of.
• 20:11
  We calibrate, if you will ask gold, I might be thinking about
• 20:17
  my research. I might be thinking about the
• 20:19
  next project that has to get done, but Actually, moving and
• 20:25
  releasing some of that energy instead of just holding it in my
• 20:29
  brain because I've learned that your body, you know, can hold
• 20:33
  onto such things and you know, stress can show up in different
• 20:36
  ways. And so I would add, you know, to
• 20:40
  one of your earlier questions, that that is so so important to
• 20:44
  me, movement is so important. I've definitely neglected yoga
• 20:52
  Over the last few years, at the yoga mat is here.
• 20:55
  I look at it. It looks at me, I will move the
• 21:00
  mat from one part of the room to the next.
• 21:04
  I have a she shed that's always in, in, under construction,
• 21:09
  right? And so, the mat the mat is down
• 21:11
  here and in that space. So, you know, I give myself
• 21:16
  Grace, I'll get to it when I'm supposed to, but, but using that
• 21:22
  I am to stretch and to just Center myself for the few
• 21:27
  moments that I can do it. I've really had to take that
• 21:31
  seriously because, you know, you don't want to get into a space
• 21:35
  where you're not able to move physically.
• 21:37
  Okay, is you've held on to stress for so long?
• 21:40
  So yeah, yeah. And that to that question from
• 21:46
  earlier. Absolutely.
• 21:47
  And I'm so glad you brought that up.
• 21:49
  It's because I think too for me sometimes It's in my movement
• 21:53
  in. In releasing that, I'll also get
• 21:55
  my newest freshest ideas. I clear out this space, I get in
• 22:00
  the movement, go in and I clear out the space in my physical
• 22:02
  body and my brain and that allows for new fresh things.
• 22:06
  I went out, I was on a walk last week and I was doing that it was
• 22:09
  very rigorous walk. I had a great like in, you know,
• 22:12
  insightful, great music going and it would just I was able to
• 22:16
  clear out and then I got back and I did my stretching.
• 22:19
  I got on my laptop right away to write down all the ideas.
• 22:22
  The warring Autumn. So there's a lot of power in
• 22:26
  that too in terms of like clearing out working out but
• 22:29
  also creating new space, you know, forgot the energy to
• 22:32
  continue to flow that creativity to not get pushed back and under
• 22:38
  the surface. So I think I think that's really
• 22:41
  important too. I love that because that, you
• 22:44
  know, I often worry when thoughts pop into my brain to
• 22:48
  add to an idea or to enhance something, I'm saying, okay.
• 22:52
  Okay, I hope it doesn't go away but but I'm a regulus lie when I
• 22:56
  get back to the desk or to the laptop, it just comes it floods
• 23:02
  out of the brain. So you're absolutely right that
• 23:07
  clearing the space in your mind is so beneficial and I'm so
• 23:12
  grateful that that it makes sense that that's what's
• 23:16
  happening. Yeah, absolutely.
• 23:18
  Absolutely. Alright, the important and you
• 23:21
  touched on this earlier, so, Get more specific about what your
• 23:24
  why and your values are. But you talked about earlier
• 23:26
  about, you know, using your Y2 and values to help determine
• 23:30
  where your boundaries come into play.
• 23:33
  Talk to me about the importance of setting and coming back to
• 23:36
  that, why and values and everything you do, and how you
• 23:40
  got to that framework? I mean, your faith is a big part
• 23:42
  of this, but talk to me a little bit about that.
• 23:45
  So I find that if you don't set that at the very beginning of
• 23:49
  your career, of your Datian, I think when things get a little
• 23:55
  blurry or or busy or the wind is blowing, you can easily go in
• 24:01
  the direction of the wind. Ya have that strong foundation
• 24:06
  and I've seen it happen. I know that there was a
• 24:09
  team-building exercise that I presented a few years ago.
• 24:14
  And it was really directly connected to what people's core
• 24:19
  values are and helping them to come to a Place of
• 24:22
  self-awareness, and actually naming.
• 24:26
  What that is so accidental. When things get really hectic
• 24:31
  and busy, are you implying to overanalyze things where you can
• 24:37
  become paralyzed and not make a decision?
• 24:41
  Or are you one that just jumps into action, but may not have
• 24:46
  taken the time to weigh all of your pros and cons?
• 24:50
  Or are you a person who Ooh, just it's easier for you to not
• 24:55
  give an answer or a decision and things are just kind of
• 25:00
  happening around you. And you know, looking at what
• 25:03
  practices people have that they want to enhance looking at the
• 25:11
  the awareness that they have about themselves and really,
• 25:15
  it's surprising that many people haven't been able to take the
• 25:20
  time to think about those things, you know?
• 25:22
  Unless they're in the moment, you know, sometimes when you're
• 25:26
  in the moment that is sometimes the worst time to learn
• 25:31
  something about yourself, right? It's like, if you think about
• 25:38
  college aged students, for example, the worst time to learn
• 25:43
  how to make a photocopy is when your boss needs a thousand
• 25:46
  copies of this document 20 minutes before a meeting.
• 25:50
  Yeah, so if you haven't taken the time to study that copy
• 25:53
  machine and to see about the different functions of it, you
• 25:59
  know, are you on a two page 22 page setting or are you on a
• 26:04
  one-page two-page set? It it you don't need to figure
• 26:08
  that out when you are pressed for time or under any kind of
• 26:14
  pressure. And so I really feel that it's
• 26:18
  so important to make the time and there's Many exercises out
• 26:24
  there really are? Yeah.
• 26:25
  Allow people to kind of discover themselves but I think it's
• 26:30
  really cool to again surround yourself with people who have no
• 26:34
  problem sharing with you what they're observing.
• 26:38
  Yeah. I have a dear girlfriend.
• 26:41
  She's at called, we were Mama friends, right.
• 26:43
  So we talk about all things, children school closures, PTA
• 26:49
  meetings and more and I was picking up my and she was
• 26:53
  watching them for a few hours while I ran into work.
• 26:55
  I think it was on a Saturday program.
• 26:58
  Yeah, and I was just feeling so great about the experience with
• 27:01
  the new prospective students that I was meeting.
• 27:05
  And it was, oh, so wonderful. We were flapping high fives and
• 27:09
  excited about their journey. And I'm telling her all about
• 27:12
  the day and as I'm walking down the stairs from her house she
• 27:16
  said to me that is absolutely wonderful.
• 27:20
  She said, but in all of that you Mention anything about your
• 27:24
  research. Oh wow.
• 27:27
  Oh my god. Oh, Melissa.
• 27:33
  She she gave me that look like I was her best girlfriend.
• 27:42
  Her daughter her good sister friends.
• 27:45
  And can I tell you that was a game-changer for me.
• 27:49
  Sure. Okay because I didn't even
• 27:52
  Realize that I was talking about all of this amazing stuff that
• 27:59
  happened that day. But she also was aware because
• 28:03
  we talked about everything that I had hit a roadblock in in my
• 28:06
  writing and I was just so exhausted and weary, okay.
• 28:11
  She was checking in on me. Like you're doing all this stuff
• 28:15
  for all these people and blah blah blah but I didn't hear you
• 28:19
  say not one thing and when she's I said, oops.
• 28:22
  So I got home and that one statement, and that one look,
• 28:30
  just gave me the energy that I needed.
• 28:32
  I think I finished the whole two chapters that weekend, I think I
• 28:38
  uploaded, you know, material and she didn't say it so that I
• 28:42
  would feel that kind of pressure that wasn't very long.
• 28:45
  Yeah. But because she knows me so
• 28:48
  well, and I am also very self-aware.
• 28:52
  And so appreciative and grateful and open.
• 28:55
  And so she laughs when I tell her the story and I'm going to
• 28:59
  make sure she hears this recording because she is
• 29:02
  definitely going to fall out of her chair and say well I'm so
• 29:07
  glad and she's so humble so beautiful.
• 29:09
  She doesn't even know how much that one statement and look up
• 29:17
  reframed, everything for you, you know, it in the way that you
• 29:20
  needed to see it in the moment. So important to have those
• 29:24
  people in your life that can end in that you have that pressed
• 29:28
  with each other. So the said it's received with
• 29:32
  the intent that it's delivered with we have that trust and that
• 29:37
  knowing of each other already because without the trust being
• 29:42
  there and without that knowledge and sharing being there, it's
• 29:45
  that that can be a hard thing to deliver if you don't have the
• 29:47
  relationship background to go with it, but it's we have to
• 29:50
  have people, we have to have those.
• 29:53
  You know holes in this you know accountable reminding us of who
• 29:56
  we are - of where we might have crossed a boundary or we need a
• 30:01
  boundary it obviously so important.
• 30:03
  I love that example. That's such a great example that
• 30:06
  she set it. You write she said it with such
• 30:08
  love and compassion that it got me into gear and I said oh okay
• 30:13
  I guess I'm going to dust off my my writing utensils and get back
• 30:17
  to business. Word of everything that you
• 30:23
  really. So I think so people, here you
• 30:27
  go, my friend. Oh important, I love that.
• 30:32
  All right, living out of your own expectations versus others.
• 30:36
  There were a lot of people that want to impose their
• 30:38
  expectations upon you because of the kind of work you do, because
• 30:43
  of how because you are, you come, you are such an accessible
• 30:48
  person in terms of people want to talk to you.
• 30:50
  They want to get feedback from you.
• 30:52
  If they want to be around you. And so, there's a lot of
• 30:56
  expectations about your availability.
• 30:58
  I'm sure in that and bed. Also, how you show up in these
• 31:04
  roles that you have, you know. So talk to me about living out
• 31:07
  of your own expectations, versus others, expectations of you.
• 31:12
  Yes. So I love that point about
• 31:14
  accessibility, I think that that is extremely important with this
• 31:18
  with this work because if you're not, if people don't Feel that
• 31:22
  you are accessible or available. It just doesn't lend itself for
• 31:28
  authentic, right? Life-changing conversations.
• 31:33
  Yep. But when you think about
• 31:35
  expectations, I think that if you are open in the very
• 31:40
  beginning about, you know, what your role is with the respective
• 31:45
  relationship or group that you're engaging with, or Or
• 31:52
  people that you're engaging with people get very, very muddled.
• 31:57
  And you know, you have people who am I my experience are on
• 32:01
  either end of the spectrum, you know, they're very, very mindful
• 32:05
  of your time and how much you've got going on where they may not
• 32:09
  be so inclined to ask for something that they need.
• 32:13
  Right? And and it almost has to get
• 32:16
  into crisis mode before they reach out.
• 32:18
  Sure, you've got people who are listen, I need to know.
• 32:22
  If I can move this period or semicolon over to the right, and
• 32:27
  can you spend meeting of a half an hour to talk about setting up
• 32:33
  the two-hour meeting before? We have the five our meeting to
• 32:36
  talk about why we had to move because the this meeting thing
• 32:44
  that she's talking about is a real problem in her world.
• 32:48
  Yes, yes. It's let's go.
• 32:52
  Discuss how we can have the meeting to discuss the
• 32:56
  PowerPoint in preparation for the meeting.
• 33:00
  It's, it's, it's quite a thing. And so I don't, I don't know if
• 33:06
  it's exclusive to to Educators, or, you know, service
• 33:13
  Industries. But I just know.
• 33:15
  I'm my world. You have to be very clear about
• 33:19
  when you first engage with people.
• 33:22
  What is expectations are because it's very easy to have a
• 33:26
  different understanding of why you have have been introduced to
• 33:30
  each other. It's so early to have two
• 33:33
  different conversations you ever have a conversation with someone
• 33:36
  and walk away and say, oh, I'm crystal clear about whatever it
• 33:40
  is. The thing was, but then when you
• 33:42
  send meeting notes or recap, it's something completely
• 33:46
  different. Right?
• 33:47
  So the expectations that you have going, Going into
• 33:53
  something. I think is really important to
• 33:55
  set and the very beginning and I've had I've had that
• 34:00
  experience on the other end earlier.
• 34:03
  I had never reached out to, you know, a particular person or
• 34:07
  department or unit and didn't realize that the person who was
• 34:12
  leading that group had been pulled on so much, and then it
• 34:16
  been called in for everything that by the time I reached out.
• 34:22
  She was at her at her wits end and and the delivery for her to
• 34:29
  tell me that she had to manage expectations, it didn't feel
• 34:33
  good. Sure.
• 34:35
  Because I didn't realize that she had history with not setting
• 34:41
  boundaries or expectations with others and so I recognized that
• 34:47
  in her delivery to me that it wasn't about me.
• 34:49
  Yeah. And I heard what she she had to
• 34:52
  say, but, but I also had to toward the end of the meeting.
• 35:00
  I felt that I needed to apologize in a way for the
• 35:02
  others who didn't respect the work that she had done, or the
• 35:08
  time that she had given to, to said projects.
• 35:11
  Because again, by the time, she, you know, I came around with my
• 35:15
  asked which was never, it was, you could tell that she had had
• 35:22
  enough. With program.
• 35:23
  Yeah it was just and I just happened to be the one on this
• 35:29
  particular day and you know, we ended the meeting with love and
• 35:34
  it really clear understanding, but I knew immediately that it
• 35:40
  wasn't about me write that and I just knew I said well this I
• 35:45
  don't think that this is a delivery that I you know this
• 35:49
  wasn't part of my ask. Yeah.
• 35:53
  So let me help to kind of reshape the reason why I'm
• 35:57
  asking this. And and, and so we did a, I have
• 36:01
  was able to do a rewind and it was all good.
• 36:04
  So your expectations of yourself and and what people expect of,
• 36:11
  you can can vary quite differently, and you've really
• 36:16
  got to be the person who's directing that because It's
• 36:23
  challenging and you, you do want to be accessible but with that
• 36:28
  people who are inclined to not want to quote unquote bother,
• 36:31
  you will not reach out. And yeah, you know, I think
• 36:37
  approaches important delivery is important and you've got to just
• 36:41
  kind of set the tone especially when you're meeting new people
• 36:44
  about who you are and your purpose and of course, the
• 36:50
  expectations. And you don't doesn't have to be
• 36:51
  that. Rigid, right have to use those
• 36:54
  terms especially when we're thinking about meeting people
• 36:58
  for the first time. But there are ways to say that
• 37:02
  where people are are pretty clear, you know, about what
• 37:06
  you're saying. And so my students, for example
• 37:09
  will tell you that they can come and see me anytime because they
• 37:14
  are priority. And can I tell you that they
• 37:17
  will always respectfully send a note before they're coming in
• 37:20
  the hall or They will send an email.
• 37:24
  And I didn't even say that, that would be helpful.
• 37:27
  Sure, right. Yeah.
• 37:29
  But they just gathered that from how you interacted with them,
• 37:32
  which is important. I mean, I think communication is
• 37:35
  kind. I mean, I think we in
• 37:37
  remembering that and I thought you said something really
• 37:40
  important earlier twos, understanding, not
• 37:42
  unfortunately, for mostly for those people the ones that Kim
• 37:45
  an interaction with not everybody has an idea of
• 37:49
  communicating expectations or setting boundaries, they just
• 37:51
  haven't been given that model they haven't fought chosen to
• 37:55
  follow whatever and so it's so important and as a when you are
• 37:59
  a person that does communicate expectations well and have your
• 38:02
  own boundaries, you recognize that quickly, but it also
• 38:04
  enables you to not think take things personally because you
• 38:08
  know that this is this is about them and not you but you are a
• 38:14
  master. And I've seen you do this before
• 38:17
  at setting the tone straight, you are so good in these
• 38:20
  situations. There can be a conflict of
• 38:24
  communication that's happened. You are really good at
• 38:28
  addressing it, but butt bleep by, at the time.
• 38:31
  Everybody leaves the room. Everyone has felt like they were
• 38:34
  heard and that is a gift, but you do that, you know, you do
• 38:37
  that really well. But it's because you do have all
• 38:40
  these things in place that we already talked about.
• 38:43
  But they're also that respect and empathy that you have that
• 38:46
  goes with that. So I think that's that's what
• 38:50
  makes you so powerful and what you do Do.
• 38:52
  All right accepting, the layered aspects of ourselves.
• 38:56
  This is accepting all the parts of us all, not just the shiny
• 39:00
  parts that people get to see in public.
• 39:03
  But all those pieces that make up who we are, talk to me about
• 39:08
  your journey with accepting all those layered aspects of
• 39:10
  yourself. Hmm, that's an excellent
• 39:12
  question. And before I answer it I just
• 39:15
  want to highlight one of the words that you use the night.
• 39:19
  I just want to share that when When I am in those spaces, I
• 39:25
  don't take it for granted, that that is a true gift that I am so
• 39:30
  grateful for and I cherish it. And so I thank you for
• 39:35
  mentioning that because it's a dance that you have to do but
• 39:41
  but it cannot be so choreographed in scripted that
• 39:43
  you can't be open to you know, what comes out of that.
• 39:49
  That that experience is so important.
• 39:52
  Embracing all the layers of myself.
• 39:54
  I I'm definitely open to how I have evolved as as a woman, as a
• 40:01
  wife and a mother. I was on a panel a few weeks ago
• 40:06
  and just talking about how you start off with one image of
• 40:11
  yourself, for example, as a mother and then you realize that
• 40:16
  that can needs to really kind of go out the window.
• 40:22
  I've been given, you know and that you have been blessed with.
• 40:27
  And so I remember talking about another good girlfriends.
• 40:32
  She knew that I was sleep deprived before going back to
• 40:35
  work from maternity leave and I really enjoy believe it or not.
• 40:41
  A part of my self care is is like maintaining a comfortable,
• 40:48
  clean home, bright, and Airy. I love all of those.
• 40:52
  You know, home making experiences and I wasn't
• 40:57
  subscribing to the sleep, when the baby sleeps, I was like, you
• 41:02
  know what, this child is asleep. I'm going to do laundry.
• 41:05
  I'm going to make sure that you know, you could hear the angels
• 41:10
  singing when you open the door and she came by for a visit, she
• 41:16
  said, whoa, It's the house is stunning but you need to sleep.
• 41:22
  Yeah, and she said, you know, lock the doors, the windows are
• 41:26
  closed. The baby is not going to leave
• 41:29
  the house. I almost no danger, Pat, no
• 41:35
  danger and our daughter is 12, okay?
• 41:38
  Jake to give you some perspective on how clear that
• 41:41
  message was to me. So in that moment I had to
• 41:45
  release. You know what?
• 41:49
  And who I Wouldn't whatever impression I had of myself as a
• 41:54
  wife and a mom, including the fact that, you know, having
• 41:58
  dinner and laundry done by the end of the day.
• 42:02
  If you're on maternity, leave that church.
• 42:04
  Whose expectation is that, right?
• 42:06
  No clams. Only if you're not trying to get
• 42:10
  to work by certain time. Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
• 42:14
  There was no, there was no remote work at the time, your
• 42:17
  soul. Wow.
• 42:18
  Right at that kind is you have been excused And you've earned
• 42:23
  the time to connect Bond and be with your, your your newborn so
• 42:30
  being open to, you know, that evolution of myself was really
• 42:35
  important and just learning to let things go, right?
• 42:39
  No, you're not going to get every single thing checked off
• 42:43
  of your to-do list, and I really hesitate to use the word
• 42:47
  perfectionist. However, I have been lovingly.
• 42:52
  Told that I have that, I have that trait of that, because I
• 42:59
  readily Embrace that term. I do recognize that I could have
• 43:05
  just tinges of those of those qualities.
• 43:08
  And so that can actually lead to more burn out, than what it's
• 43:13
  worth. And so embracing those layers of
• 43:16
  myself means that it's okay to not get everything done and you
• 43:21
  cannot Put yourself last for the sake of getting everything done
• 43:27
  right and then health-wise you recognize that that catches up
• 43:33
  with you over time oh 100% you know it's definitely something
• 43:38
  you have to embrace and say okay I need to work on that part of
• 43:44
  myself and say that this is not what you need to be focusing on
• 43:48
  right now. And let's prioritize.
• 43:50
  Yeah. And that's its daily Early work
• 43:53
  daily daily work. I hope that I answered that part
• 43:57
  of the question of was there. Another that was the piece of it
• 44:02
  and you hid it so well. And I think it's just so
• 44:04
  important because I think we've all gone through that.
• 44:08
  You talked about especially as mom's, that thing of like, okay,
• 44:11
  kids are gone but you know, whatever phase of like kids are
• 44:13
  gone babies, sleep, kids went to bed, whatever scramble around
• 44:16
  and you're just exhausted. And I, for me, I went through
• 44:19
  that stage as well, and I just ended up Like a martyr and then
• 44:25
  that was no good for anybody. No one was benefiting from that.
• 44:31
  You know, so I mean, I think it's just so important to
• 44:33
  remember that and give ourselves a break, you know, in whatever
• 44:37
  season were in give ourselves a break and just know you talked
• 44:43
  about this earlier know, you know, as you're reflecting on
• 44:45
  Ray know that you did the best you could that day and that's
• 44:49
  and he will be here tomorrow. And If you're, you know, you're,
• 44:54
  I think it's just, we have to continue to give ourselves Grace
• 44:56
  and we, as women are not not change, we're not great at that,
• 45:00
  but it, but when we see other women doing it and talking about
• 45:03
  their Journey with it, I think it empowers them, it makes other
• 45:06
  people feel empowered to do the same.
• 45:09
  So that's why it's so these conversations and just talk
• 45:12
  about this. Yeah, I'll different different
• 45:14
  perspectives, help you and different delivery.
• 45:21
  Absolutely. All right, in living out feel
• 45:25
  finding empowerment and embracing layers, which you do
• 45:28
  so. Well, tell me how this affects
• 45:30
  the quality of your relationships.
• 45:31
  In terms of, if you're doing this for yourself, how you feel
• 45:36
  about your relationships and how they feel about you, because I
• 45:38
  would argue that if you are finding empowerment and
• 45:41
  embracing your layers, you're not only liking yourself the way
• 45:45
  you should and and making route to care for yourself the way you
• 45:48
  should. You're showing it better in your
• 45:50
  relationships and people I'll actually want to be around
• 45:53
  chicken talk to me about that and your journey with that.
• 45:58
  So it's so important. I think that you have reciprocal
• 46:03
  relationships. You know how you think that when
• 46:06
  you are such a giver, it's very easy to you know, have people
• 46:15
  just received from you but I think it's so important that you
• 46:20
  know people are On the same page with you, and it's not to say
• 46:26
  that you have you not going to have seasons where one person is
• 46:29
  doing more uplifting than the other, right?
• 46:32
  Because that is what friendship SAR about, you know, you should
• 46:35
  be able to share and just be in your most authentic
• 46:41
  relationships. But I really think that as you
• 46:44
  have your, your ebb and flow of life, it's really important that
• 46:50
  you're able to uplift. Each other when you most need
• 46:54
  it. And so those relationships that
• 46:57
  you surround yourself with are so so important and I'm at the
• 47:02
  phase now, my good girlfriends and I joke were you know, we're
• 47:07
  at the age where we don't. We're not we don't need new
• 47:10
  friends if you will. Like we're a sure thing, the
• 47:14
  ones that we do have and I have a large circle of family friends
• 47:20
  and but and that's it. All amazing, right?
• 47:24
  You know, if I meet acquaintances along the way and,
• 47:28
  you know, we have great conversation.
• 47:30
  That's that's awesome, and friends are friends.
• 47:33
  And so, you know, surrounding yourself with like-minded.
• 47:37
  People leading to those authentic relationships, I think
• 47:41
  are so, so important because we gravitate to each other.
• 47:44
  I remember when you and I first met, I remember the day that we
• 47:48
  spoke, I was traveling for a conference and I was in Between
• 47:52
  a workshop session and, you know, you were so gracious with
• 47:56
  your time and I think the time zone was all different on
• 48:00
  everything, right? Yep.
• 48:02
  You. And I chatted as if we were old
• 48:04
  girlfriends from from, you know, a back Yonder, right?
• 48:09
  So when you have that spark in those authentic connections with
• 48:13
  people, those are the relationships that you have to
• 48:17
  cherish that that uplift. You and, you know, you have to
• 48:20
  also get to a place where Ready to release those that don't, and
• 48:26
  that's not easy. Yeah, right.
• 48:28
  That's not. I'm so glad you hit on that.
• 48:30
  That is so important. I wouldn't I want to sit on that
• 48:34
  permit because 1, the reciprocal relationships are so important
• 48:37
  because I think specially women were conditioned to give and
• 48:40
  give and give and give and give and that can set us up for not
• 48:45
  always be feeling like we're in reciprocal relationship.
• 48:48
  So being mindful of that and also knowing that some
• 48:52
  relationships just have seasons and that's okay too.
• 48:56
  And it doesn't have to mean that you don't like them anymore or
• 49:00
  they don't like you and you just made a point in different
• 49:04
  directions. I mean you might just have
• 49:06
  things that you don't aren't in the same season on anymore or
• 49:11
  you just you've changed and you don't agree on the same things
• 49:14
  that you used to. You're just not going to line my
• 49:17
  it that way, whatever that maybe you've moved.
• 49:20
  I mean there's so many things that come into it.
• 49:22
  Sometimes we feel like if a relationship ends, it always has
• 49:25
  to mean something bad. And that's I think we have to
• 49:28
  release that idea and that notion.
• 49:31
  So I'm glad you brought that up. I think that's so important and
• 49:34
  I think we have a really hard time with that.
• 49:36
  We do we do and and and healthy relationships are important
• 49:39
  because if it's so imbalanced you know it can you know it can
• 49:45
  cause you to actually be the person who's who's drowning you
• 49:49
  know and and so it's really important.
• 49:52
  Ortant to and you don't have to you know have a big
• 49:55
  pronouncement about if that's even a word.
• 49:59
  No wait. What has changed?
• 50:01
  But the other reality and this was a hard reality for me that
• 50:05
  there are people who just don't have the capacity, right?
• 50:08
  Yes. Right.
• 50:10
  And it looks nothing. No judgment.
• 50:13
  It's not. It's not a thing.
• 50:15
  Where you feel angry. You just understand that it for
• 50:19
  that particular season. It's okay to, you know, protect
• 50:24
  your space. It's okay to, you know check in
• 50:28
  every now and again but it can't be extended prolonged periods of
• 50:32
  time now. And then there's some that just
• 50:35
  don't require any attention because it just takes up too
• 50:39
  much of the energy that you already are struggling to meet
• 50:43
  team. So that's that's, you know I
• 50:47
  would definitely think that that's an important part of how
• 50:51
  those Nation ships, sort of, you know, have have shown themselves
• 50:57
  and you, can you have to be okay with that.
• 50:59
  You have to get away with that. Yeah, I agree, 100%, it is, I
• 51:03
  think part of life in the seasons that we go through, all
• 51:06
  right, we're down to the rapid-fire so name, five
• 51:11
  activities, that nourish you. Hmm, rest reading.
• 51:18
  Playing with my children, just being so silly.
• 51:23
  I mean, it could be charades, it could be a game of cards or, you
• 51:28
  know, this there until you blink game, you know.
• 51:32
  And who blinked first playing? Tic-Tac-Toe being outdoors.
• 51:40
  Yes. That was all part of number
• 51:41
  three, number four, you know, Sisterhood time with with my
• 51:48
  Good girlfriends. And you know whether we have a
• 51:52
  blanket and some tea and some hot chocolate and some good
• 51:56
  snacks. It just sitting around and just
• 51:59
  putting your feet up and that's like intentional time that I
• 52:04
  still miss right now, you know and really really I can't wait
• 52:09
  to kind of get back into that rhythm of just sitting with
• 52:12
  folks and not talking about work stuff just you know, life stuff.
• 52:18
  And then number five is is my quiet time you know the the me
• 52:23
  time that is so important and there's no particular order but
• 52:29
  that's that's the first, you know, of the five that that come
• 52:32
  to mind. And just you know, being able to
• 52:37
  let your hair down long enough to enjoy those moments being
• 52:42
  present in them. I think is so important.
• 52:45
  It's so important. All right.
• 52:47
  Five words on how you Want to feel the next six months.
• 52:51
  Hmm, resilient rested at peace, accomplished and complete.
• 53:02
  I love those. I love those will Trot sahni.
• 53:04
  Thank you so much for the time. I'm so so thrilled.
• 53:07
  And once your doctor Chats on E, I want to we're going to bring
• 53:10
  you back, we're going to talk more about that because you do
• 53:13
  some really important work in your research that we didn't
• 53:15
  even get to touch on today. That is so important.
• 53:18
  I think for for women to know about poor people in the world
• 53:21
  to know about but thank you so much for this time today and
• 53:24
  carving this out podcast audience, you're going to want
• 53:27
  to know more about what this wonderful woman does in the
• 53:30
  world. So make sure you go to embracing
• 53:32
  layers.com you not only confined your episode links there but you
• 53:35
  with also can find resources page that share the sources and
• 53:39
  things that shot Sonny is involved with and things that
• 53:42
  she uses in her own life that are helpful.
• 53:45
  You can be re a Blog about this episode that are writer.
• 53:48
  Cool. Right?
• 53:49
  And so, don't miss out on that and checking us out on all the
• 53:52
  socials, you'll find our link tray on there where you can
• 53:55
  follow us engage with us on social media and in our sub
• 53:58
  stack. But again Chuck funny.
• 54:00
  Thank you so much. My friend for your time today
• 54:03
  and podcasts audience have a great week.
• 54:05
  Thank you. Was my honor, my honor.
• 54:08
  I'm so proud of you and I appreciated our time together
• 54:11
  and I'm just so thankful that you are a part of that women
• 54:16
  Circle that I talked about. So thank you.
• 54:18
  You at? And it's an honor to know you
• 54:20
  to. Thank you so much.
• 54:21
  All right, everybody have a good week.
• 54:24
  Bye everyone. You at?
• 54:19
  And it's an honor to know you to.
• 54:20
  Thank you so much. All right, everybody have a good
• 54:22
  week. Bye everyone.