Latest / Zero Friction / Taking Back Control of Your Health Data with Stephen Rouse of Savva || Zero Friction Podcast

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Taking Back Control of Your Health Data with Stephen Rouse of Savva || Zero Friction Podcast · Zero Friction

• Terry Coutsolioutsos/RevRx AI: In MedTech, the difference between a good quarter and a great one isn't always the product. It's the friction standing in the way. Broken sales cycles, misaligned teams, deals that stall at the finish line. Every leader feels it. And the best ones know how to remove it. Welcome to Zero Friction, the podcast where we go inside the minds of MedTech's top commercial leaders to uncover the real barriers they face, the decisions they make, and the systems they build to keep the revenue moving. I'm your host, Terry Cuchaluches. Let's remove some friction. Well, welcome, Zero Friction Podcast Nation. Terry Cucheluch is here. And I have a really exciting day today. And and we're going to be interviewing Steven Rouse, who is representing and he's a co-founder of Sava AI, which is a phenomenal company that has a health app, which by the way, I'm using and having a blast with. But a little bit about Steven. He's a serial entrepreneur and he's got some great stories on how he actually got into the game. He's a global traveler. he's done the biotech thing, he's done SaaS, and now the co founder of Sava, a platform that's designed to give every person on the planet a real portable sort of health record that they can take wherever they go. And they can do it for about ten bucks a year. So with that, I'm gonna hand the ⁓ the reins over to Steven and have him let him know have him give us a little story about himself and then lead into Sava. So Steven, welcome to the program. Thank you, Terry, for having me. Super excited to be here. Couldn't said it better myself in terms of explaining Sava. through and through, I'm more of a sales guy than anything else over my career. I lean on my co-founder, Amit Shah. You know, he's a technologist and I'm the growth, sales, and marketing ⁓ strategy of Sava. I c I'm really looking forward to today's conversation. Well, that's awesome. Well, how did the concept of Sava even come to play? So what was the sort of the inception behind the technology and the platform? Before it was an AI tool, before we fell into that bucket, so to speak, Amit and I were working on a QR code solution where all over the world we could digitize someone's health records by ingesting unique QR code that maps to their longitudinal health record. You scan scan a QR code and without Access to the internet if you're in a low resource setting or maybe in a in a basement of a hospital somewhere, without any network that data could go from that QR code over to your phone and be held locally on the device. and then we've started looking into what had happened to health records and to the regulatory landscape with health data in the US, and we're surprised to find that you could use fire to extract EHR data and have people credentialize themselves. And so we kind of pivoted into this, okay, what if you could get, you know, health records ingested and then looked at wearables. I've got my whoop on right now and a big Garmin user and an Apple Watch user and use Strava my whole, my, my whole life pretty much for for skiing and cycling. And what if you can ingest all this information in one place and keep the ⁓ philosophy of on device storage and try to do everything as safely as we can in terms of keeping it out of the cloud. And so it's kind of transformed over the past twenty-four months or so into what Sava is today. And I mean, I think at the end of the day, right, we're we're trying to provide a tool, a f an affordable tool to people to make better, more informed decisions on their health, you know, from a longevity perspective to make healthier decisions so you can live longer and feel better. That's awesome. So do you have a healthcare background? Does Amit have a healthcare background? How did you kind of stumble into the health space? Amit is a genius, a genius technologist, and he always calls himself the fraudulent He's not a he's not a doctor. A lot of his relatives are. I have the furthest. ⁓ I have my background the furthest from a a medical background. Give us a little background on yourself too, by the way, because I think that's a really interesting story. I'm gonna segue quickly. into you because I I think your your first engagement into the entrepreneurial setting is is a is a really fun one. Yeah. You know, speaking of far from healthcare, I, you know, if we were having this conversation fifteen years ago, I would be jokingly calling me the Christmas King of the West Coast. developed when I was in my early twenties a an oversized Christmas light. They were about, you know, two feet tall and Powered by LEDs. I I came to market via Kickstarter, but before all that really happened, I showed up unannounced at Home Depot's corporate headquarters with my sole prototype and walked away with a purchase order and signed thing before I really gave a good look. It was, I don't know, a hundred pages long kind of thing. And as a 22-year-old entrepreneur to sign this thing was so excited when I saw the dollar signs on it, of course. Quickly found out, like, ⁓ my goodness, I'd probably need to move to Shenzhen, China, like in order in order to get this order fulfilled. So it's ⁓ a super long story, but I got into, yeah, my first entrepreneurial journey was through Christmas lights and a pretty good run for this Christmas light, but like massive Christmas lights, by the way. Like not like I just want to make sure we get everybody's brains that they're like the size of a pineapple or bigger probably. Sure. Yeah, like a rugby ball. They're like this big. you know, being a creative genius that I am, I I named the company and the product Really Big Lights. It seemed to make sense. And there's of ⁓ all over the world now. I sold ⁓ To all sorts of retailers in nine different countries over a three to four years span. And then as quickly as it kinda took off, I came to an abrupt halt in the form of the sheriff showing up at at my bookkeeper's office in here my California and was was sued something called prior art ⁓ on a patent that had and I enforced. Was sold was was sued for prior art on my on my patent by some big name Chinese trade companies it all happened all at once and I was super sad that day and I'm a pretty happy go lucky guy. Guy. Yeah. and so I went to Japan to do what I love most in this world, other than my wife and son. And we ⁓ I went skiing by myself and I met a gentleman on on a chairlift who presented a biotechnology opportunity to me. ⁓ this chair lift and I was like, ⁓ that that translates big Christmas lights to biotech and he was he was from England he made a funny, you know, comment, I'll never forget it, and he's like, Hey Mike, you know, there's only one thing, you've got to move to Berkeley, California. I like, Bro, I'm from Sonoma. It's like it's like forty five minutes from my my from my parents' house. And so it was an easy sell. ⁓ And I said goodbye to the Christmas lights that day, and a couple of weeks later I was working in this, you know, kind of for lack of a better word, sexy biotechnology. There you go. ⁓ just leading sales efforts. That's awesome. So so Christmas lights to biotech and now we're at Saba and we'll get back on track with with this one because I I think it has great potential just in the world of connectivity and care for people, you know, people are trying to take control of their own health care, not going to doctor's offices, not going to hospitals as much as possible and getting care delivery and alternative channels more than they ever have before. I think this sets up really well for your company and your platform. Yeah. I mean, you know, amen. I I you know we're trying to skate where the puck's gonna be. A lot ⁓ in a lot of what we've been doing with the past twenty-four months. And it just seems like every day more dominoes keep falling in our direction. And so it's just our first foray in consumer-facing tools, right? We've been in the B2B space for the past, you know, couple of projects that I've been a part of. And so it's awesome from ⁓ it's you know, less conferences, less third party risk assessments and committee approvals, you have to deal with healthcare and pharma. But then it's like you're starting a restaurant. It's like every individual has their own kind of take and spin on on on what they're looking for in this, you know, in this pretty busy category. And so it's you know, give or take, know, w w which one would you prefer? And so yeah, we're really excited. It's been we're launching soon, right? iOS has has finally we're we've been approved. And just waiting for Android to be to be green lit and ⁓ we've it built now in forty languages ⁓ and launching in seventy countries, have a a bunch of ⁓ influencers from all around the world that I meet with on a daily basis, trying to evangelize them and and get them on the app, testing it. And so, you know, fingers crossed here in the next month or two, we'll be live and and out there and transform healthcare globally, not just, you know, here in the States. So how do you like have you identified like, you know, what your ideal customer profile looks like? You know, is it, you know, I know it's it's gonna be different in different markets, but I'm sure there's demographics that kind of segment like people that are more interested in this type of data and platform than others. So how does that work for you? Yeah, you super you super good question. I mean I was on the phone this week with some folks from AARP chronically ill people, the older you are The more likely it is you have one or more chronic conditions that you're managing. You know, I think that that would be, you know, the ideal customer profile would be someone in their, you know, 40s, 50s, 60s managing a chronic condition that's also rocking a fitness wearable and, you know, using data to evangelize themselves and and and to become, you know, owners of their own health data and start making decisions, like you said, outside of the doctor's office. And so I'd say, especially here in the States, it'd be that. ICP. Across the world, it's, you know, we have this saying that we've been using the last couple of weeks now that, you know, what about the six plus billion people without a concierge medicine doctor? Right. It it's not as of right now, it's kind of like you got to have a, you know, some money or you're you're from ⁓ you have a health system with a really awesome electronic health record. What about someone who's, you know, still on paper? And we're e in a region of the world where EHRs aren't going to exist in my son's lifetime. It's not like we're used to you know, here in the States, not at a million d plus dollars a build. Digitize those health records for the first time to bring the same safety and security and privacy angle that we have going in the States, whereas we don't have any servers at Sava, we have no we don't there's no accounts, ⁓ is ever ⁓ you know, out floating around there in in the cloud to be sold or brokered or we're not gonna play the data game with this anywhere in the world. And so trying to bring that same kind of power to to to anyone, ⁓ you know, w wherever you are in the world. That's awesome because I know a lot of these health apps are you know, it's all about there's a front end model, which is the cash driving model, and then there's the back end model, which is the data model, which is the asset of the company and And I can tell you just from, you know, my brief experience over the last thirty days, and by the way, thanks for giving me sort of a beta version to try out. I've had a blast with it. And, you know, I rock a garment and I use Strava and I use Apple Health and I use Hume and I use all these things. And it's the one platform for me that actually, you know, and I can I can tie it to my EHR and I'm you know, I'm taking a GLP and I'm on T R T and I can plug all that stuff into Sava, it recognizes it it helps me make sure that like, you know, with the GLP you lose muscle mass. So it you know, eating proteins are really important part of my day and I'm using that to to monitor what my food intake and what my nutritional intake looks like. So if I'm at the end of my day or if I'm at the end of my week and I'm short, then I can, you know, I can turn in a direction and change my diet because it needs to do those things. And so I've used it in ways where it monitors my activity, it's monitoring my heart rate, it monitors my sleep, gives me green lights all over the place if I'm doing well. If it's if I'm not, it'll give me a yellow light. If I'm red, it'll give me a red light. And it's a real simple thing to follow. And then when you start supplying it with your actual health record, which you monitors all those other things and pulls all that data in. You know, you know, I'm fortunate enough I'm not on a bunch of medications because I have a chronic disease or I'm getting older, I've you know, whatever heart statins and things like that. But I definitely think we're getting that information in there and having people taking control of their own health, which is really well healthcare is going these days, like it's no longer reactive health, it's more strategic and proactive health. That's how you stay healthy. That's how you live longer. That's how you stay out of the hospital. And I think this plays right into that. That's why I ask you like who how you're gonna go get the customer. Like that's a you know, you know, I think influencers are always a great trap, right? And my guess is probably the healthiest people are the ones that are probably using this more than ever than right now, but I think that has a chance to really expand out on that. You know, Terry, that's it's super validating to hear use cases like yours and or the past the the beta's been live since March my favorite thing to do and ⁓ almost on a daily basis, I I get one or two meetings, getting to talk to beta testers, go through their use case. And mean from the from the weight loss and the TRT angle that you're on, I mean, there's so much of that happening right now across healthcare. ⁓ A of people empowering themselves to to go down these journeys and That's the goal, right? It's a one stop shop instead of having all those fitness apps and all the EHR records and being able to go between all these different apps and platforms. You have w kind of a one stop shop here at Saba. And I mean, I love hearing that. It's like it's like an entrepreneur could be a little tough sometimes. ⁓ the validation coming from actual users talking like that, man, I appreciate it. It gets a little adds some fuel to the fire for sure. ⁓ especially on a Wednesday. As summer's kicking off, you're going, man, I hope I'm spending all this time and energy something right. And I think you're absolutely right. You know, the from the val whether you want to call it value based care or preventative care, that's what this shift in consumer health has been over the past four years or so. It's all aligned with empowering to to take control of this data, to own it and to make decisions on their own, based off the data that they're seeing. And so I love hearing that from you. It's awesome. I th I think, you know, just you know, the GLP side, like the peptides is a ninety billion dollar market in the US today. You Lilly sells thirty six billion dollars worth of GLP one a year. Just you that's just a a macro health perspective and that's you know, there's not there's a lot more gray matter, gray market product that's coming through that stuff too, that are powders and they're marked its peptides and all kinds of things. And so I just think that, you know, those types of things, monitoring your health, you know, the the aging demographic, you know, you're gonna you're now gonna have people aging that are actually can use that have been using tones for their whole life. So you have people in their sixties and sixty five and seventy that they have a a correlation of using a device like like this to their health versus, you know, like my parents ⁓ are their mid eighties and like I think it would be challenging for them to use an app like Saba successfully. But you're coming into a an a demographic right now that's getting ready to start that aging process that has technology familiarity and will will easily adopt this stuff. So that's what the exciting part for me. So how do you get like once you get them, like what what is it like is your business model the consumer? Is your business model the physician, the hospital, the the healthcare market, like like How do you view yourself in terms of, you know, who you're really trying to serve? I mean ⁓ c consumers, right? It's a B to C to B business model. It starts with the consumers. All the things we wanna do the B to B route, you really can't do any of it without population density in the app. And so it's kind of a cash twenty two, maybe if that's what it is. It's you kind of we need organic growth in the app to do the things we want to do with, you know, chronic disease management and working with a healthcare institution or a payer somewhere way down the line or even a pharmaceutical company. Right now we're keeping, you know, we have this the security and privacy net, if you will, in terms of, hey, feel safe talking about this stuff in the app. Feel safe sharing it with your friends and it it's kind of yours. But then one day, you know, I think the goal on the c on the clinical trial side of the business, right? you were to receive a push a notification one day from the app, you know, hey, would you interested in, you know, sharing this data with a pharma company in exchange for copay reimbursement or drug coupons. I think that's where I see the app going in in the future. I think that, you know, I love the call map. I've been using the call map for ten years now. And if you're familiar with those guys, it's kinda I come from the school of thought. I think anyone who says they can meditate, I don't believe them. I don't under But it's as close as I can get Meditating, right? The like forced meditation kind of for 20 minutes a day. And you know, when my wife and I were walking out of ⁓ the hospital a couple of years ago with a when when my son was born, UCSF here in the Bay Area was like, Hey, you know, you get calm for four years on us. I went, Wow, what an amazing tool, right? And all that there, that's just a business relationship that's going on between that healthcare institution and and the calm guys, I'm assuming, right? It's just ⁓ you know, instead of you know, just buying bulk subscriptions and giving it to their users for free. That's where I really think if we win this race that's happening right now all around us, I think that whoever's trusted by the healthcare organizations be like, okay, look at these guys. They're not harvesting your data on the back end. They're providing a valuable tool to make you help, you know, healthier decisions in between visits, if you will. That's where I think we'll really you know, find the just boosting, you know, our user growth and With that our revenue at at ten dollars a a person per year. We're we're trying to make this inclusive for everybody, which is wild 'cause right, just to use GPT Pro or Cloud Pro or the price of a month right there. Like you know for a year and it's two a cup of coffee in some places, if you're in, you know, San Francisco. San Francisco. It's costly eleven dollar latte, right? You know, exactly. And so but with that, right, our business model We we won't send ads, right? At 10 bucks a year, it's it's tough to send ads. And also I think I have we've I get ads all the time from, you know, similar companies going, Hey, do you are you managing a chronic disease? Do you wear a wearable? Do you want to share your data with a robot? I think it's I'm like, what? Get out of here, right? I think it's a an odd ad to receive. Plus, there's no, you know, at $10 a year we really For lack of a better term, we can't afford ads and we don't want to. So that's why we're kind of relying on organic growth. And we have about 3,000 people almost on the beta today all over the world. people in Nepal and Pakistan and Tanzania and all over the place, kind of using it in all sorts of different ways. And what's the craziest thing that they're doing right now? Like, what's the craziest? Sort of version of what you're finding out on the beta. Like, what do you kind of get like, wow? Like I would have never thought of that before. I was on the phone with a gentleman from the Democratic Republic of the Congo last week. older guy, you know, they show up with binders, right? Just like my grandma used to do, right? Like their health record is just like stapled in. ⁓ he goes. If he had gone through ⁓ we have an on device OCR where it doesn't touch the cloud, it's super where you could scan. If he had created a entire longitudinal health record that went back thirty something years, would show it me. Kind printouts and some handwritten notes that he had written. He gone every kind of page. I went, wow. I mean, someone in that setting Kichasa, I think very And to have, you know, hey man, you've got Epic. You might as you know, it's you might as well have a full longitudinal health record via Epic or Cerner or Athena, one of these leading guys. And you did it all yourself. You digitized it. And giving that person the same amount of, you know, all the AI models we're connected to, and giving him the security and privacy is to so he knows this data is not getting in the hands of anyone. It's his. ⁓ And ⁓ that was a wild one. I also have another one here in the States. wish I could call them out because we'll probably watch this one day. You know who you are out in Salt Lake City where I got a call going, ⁓ my gosh, like I went to an urgent care facility 15 years ago and if they're on Athena, actually might have been Meditech. And I forgotten about this visit. I like I'm for years kind of like, what happened? What did they say? And it found it. And it addressed it. And I was able to kind of go back 15 years and look at this visit and go, man, I completely had forgotten when I was traveling that this visit even happened, that that this had happened to my body. And now wow, I have the raw data. You can actually in in Saba, which kind of differentiates differentiates ourselves from other products, is that we don't just show you a chatbot, we show you. It's not a blank screen with okay, just trust us, it's connecting the background. Here's the visit. Here's the raw data coming from that visit fifteen years ago. Now get an analysis of it. ⁓ you want a second opinion? That was Gemini? Go to Grok. Now go to now go to Quad. Now go to one of the on device ma models. Usually I think there's like fifteen on there. I mean, it's like there's a there's a there's a big list, you know. These money choices every day. Like just yesterday, Google dropped a new model. And I only know that 'cause I was on the phone with a meat today and he was like, ⁓ dude, you gotta update These models. And so because every couple of weeks it seems like there's a newer, better model coming, we said, hey man, you know, we choose our insurance company, we choose generic versus name brand drugs, we choose our physician. You know, give people the power of choice with these mods. And maybe it's the tone, maybe it's how it's that with how thorough that particular AI is. For whatever, maybe you think Elon Musk is a genius. Maybe ⁓ hate Elon Musk, whatever the case. don't lock this individual in. Give them the the power of choice to choose between these models. ⁓ I think that's a really unique kind of selling point of Saba is that you can use all of these leading models, including on device ones, right? Ones that like truly like you can be on airplane mode in a cage somewhere, and you could. If you could be asking this in questions and it it's truly on the device, never leaving the phone. I think that's one of the coolest things we're doing is is the multi model approach and letting people choose and compare in real time. Yeah, that way you do get to continue your choice and one versus the other. And so that's that's awesome. So where do you go from now? Like you beta tested, do you land at a date yet when You know, you're gonna go full blown. Is it is it after Android or what's the go go date? The green the green day. I mean, we could launch tomorrow on iOS. I will say I think March twelfth was when the beta was pushed out to everybody and a lot of physicians and key opinion leaders and people from all over. And it was inclusive, right? We listened to were getting feedback and the app looks completely different today. Than it was on March twelfth. And and not just bug fixes and not just using the beta as like a a launch strategy. Okay, on the way the debut launch, maybe we'll have twenty, eight hundred users around the world that that downloaded. I mean, ideally that's what happens, but we've we've truly Amit and I have been banging our heads against each other for a few months now, going, ⁓ this person just brought up that, th this new feature and this new way of presenting data and we need to change it, or vice versa. And so I don't have a date for you right now. third, I can't believe it's not launched. But the app becomes it's it continues to get better and better. And so iOS, don't think will change between now and launch date. I think we're pretty well we're set in stone. I think that people are happy with it. You know, like you said, I you know, you've had eighty sessions on it in the last month or something like that. I mean it's I mean, I ran out of conversations today. I'm I'm out. had to go I had to go switch my my module around. ⁓ know? It's I love hearing that, right? I mean, like what a powerful, you know, piece of feedback that is for us. And that we're not the only one. There's been ⁓ dozens of that they come and say, Hey man, you know, when I look, the only thing we ha do have access to in test flight is how many sessions? We can't see anything. But some of some users have hundreds of sessions since March, you know, multiple times a day. logging in there and and so I don't have a concrete date for you, but as as soon as I do, you'll be the first to know. the good, you know, I can't wait, by the way. You know? If if Andro I I think we've submitted to Android as of Monday of this week because of the the global kind of mission, if will, behind of w what we built at Saba, you know, the ⁓ we in States seem to be IOS people, you know. most part. If you you know, we've got Huawei and Samsung phones all over the world. We really want to have that version of the app. And honestly, there's things things that happen in Android very cool that are different than what iOS allows you to do. One of the main ones, you know, when you get in and it it's you're trying to find your fitness records and you're like, okay, well, right now we're reading your Garmin and, know, your aura ring and your glucose, but we we found that. What Android lets us do it says, Hey, we found like these ten other apps on your phone ⁓ go you make sure you go in there and connect that to to Yeah, that's a good that's a good feature. Cause you know, ⁓ the with the iOS that you you definitely have to dig in and it kind of says, Hey, make sure you do this, this and this. So that's if you know, if Android does that that that definitely is a A better user experience for sure. For sure. I mean, I s because I I think it's hard to communicate, you know, hey, we're we're con we're reading this data out of Apple Health, you know, all of these I mean, I think we have sixty plus apps on iOS that are connected to Apple Health, but you need to do it yourself. You need to go manually into your sleep number app in my case and actually click that thing over versus an Android, it let it does it for you. But ⁓ bec you know, we're launching soon. I don't know, man. You sound like awesome because You know, I didn't I haven't even thought about it. She's always even thought about I hadn't even thought about the diabetes thing and that's another, you know, huge market potential opportunity where you can really make huge impact on somebody's life, man. I mean they're, you know, taking insulin every day and monitoring your blood sugar and making sure you're eating right and you know, dietary like I think this app falls right in line. I know you're trying to be agnostic from a chronic disease perspective, but I do think that there are probably some chronic diseases out there or diseases that have pharmaceutical or therapeutic regimen that this is really going to benefit. Like this is really going to tie in very nicely and, you know, make an impact on the way people live every day. And I think that's what a great purpose in life to to be a part of. You know, anything where fitness is being prescribed. Right. You've got glucose and CGM. You've got hypertension. You've got weight loss and GLP ones. Right. And you have fitness and just the biohacker crowd as well. I think those four or five buck buckets, we see incredible opportunity. You can log GLP one doses directly in the app and compare it to your widthing scale or Your fume scale with what your weight loss journey and when you've taken those same that you could do with you know, with your glucose. And able to serve the diabetics. I mean, one of my early one of my best friends is a ⁓ diabetic and has been instrumental in and he's a biohacker, just like built like a Greek god, is takes his di diabetes super seriously. We've we've really put a lot of time and effort into That's great. Diabetics, definitely. And the same with hypertension. People with blood blood high blood pressure dealing with heart disease and even like heart failure too. Heart failure patients need to be monitored every day. Their weight fluctuation with fluid in their lungs and their you know, their body. All kinds of really cool things, especially when you can tie in all that blood pressure, weight, salt, sodium intake. I mean, just all kinds of just crazy things like that that are really, really important. So I think you're Think you're on a pathway to something fabulous. I'm so excited for you. you, Terry. Yeah, I really am. Pretty cool. So with that, any closing words for us, Steven, we we we break with the Zero Friction Podcast as we close things down here. I think that the average person in the States doesn't realize that modern consumer health and all these platforms that are coming out, they don't need to be HIPAA compliant with your data. Can't stress it enough. I was so surprised. you read through the 21st century ONC Cures Act, it's frightening what's happening around us. And so while from a you know democratization and from a health access perspective, these modern apps are just killer. They're amazing. Take control of your data. The majority of these actors out there, and I won't name names, but I certainly could read some of these privacy policies. Lots a lot of them, you know, list insurance companies recipients of this data. And think that what I would wanna convey out there to people is, you know, we've made an architectural choice, not a policy, to never ⁓ store any this anywhere but your phone. You delete the app, you delete a conversation on the app, it's gone. It's never reached the cloud. The app gets bigger over time, as opposed to anything reaching the cloud. 23andMe taught us that, you know, this data can end up in bankruptcy court being off to the highest bidder. And the highest bidder will always be a payer. We call them payer, we call insurance companies payers because they have all the pay. They're intelligent. They've got a lot of money, a lot of intelligent people that work at these places. So, you know, d while this trend is awesome, you weary of some of these guys planting the data game. the worst case scenario is someone looking at this data, my data that's coming out of an urgent care visit last week, say, hey, Steve drinks too much. He eats too, he eats like awful food the time. He's always logging He it Steve's a pre-diabetic and doesn't even know he's a pre-diabetic. To have that data flow into the wrong hands, all of a sudden your family's not giving c getting coverage, or maybe, you know, you're you're paying a premium for health insurance one day. And that is the scary part of consumer health in twenty twenty six. And taken every step possible to never even put ourselves in that position. I think that's a great close, by the way, and great thought for everybody to lead because, you know, health apps are gonna be a part of our lives forever moving forward. But you gotta pick well and you gotta choose well and you know having that privacy, that's that's probably such a huge value proposition that people don't consider that need to be really kind of you know, kind of moved up in that sort of messaging. So I wish you the very best. It's been a great pleasure to meet you, Steven, and play around with the Sava app. It's been great. So we wish you the best of luck and we look forward to big things. Thank you for having me on Zero Friction. All right. Thanks, Steven. That's a wrap on Zero Friction. The show built around one simple idea. Remove the barriers and the revenue will follow. If today's conversation was valuable, please subscribe and share it with somebody who needs to hear it. That's how we will grow this community. I'm Terry Cuchaluchis, a revenue architect powered by AI. Come find me at my website, myrevrx.com, and let's talk about what friction is costing you and your organization. Until next time, keep removing the barriers and keep the revenue flowing.