Latest / The Dr. Sarah Hensley Show / Episode 48, Season 2: Don't Let Attachment Style Confirmation Bias Sabotage Your Relationships

Transcript

Episode 48, Season 2: Don't Let Attachment Style Confirmation Bias Sabotage Your Relationships · The Dr. Sarah Hensley Show

• 0:11
  Speaker 1: Welcome to the LOVEDG Podcast soon to be the Doctor
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: Sarah Hinsley Show. I am your co host Raina, but
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: you're here with our host, Doctor Sarah Hinsley, herself the owner,
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: founder and CEO of the LOVEDC Relationship Coaching Services also
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: soon to be Doctor Sarah Hensley's Relationship Coaching Services, and
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: you can find her at the lovedoc dot com or
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: on any social media handle at doctor Sarah Hinsley. Hey. Hey, Hey,
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: how's it going.
• 0:37
  Speaker 2: It's going pretty well.
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: How about you tired today?
• 0:41
  Speaker 2: Yeah?
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: We're still recovering from Coachella, guys.
• 0:44
  Speaker 3: Yeah, nothing will teach you that you're not young anymore.
• 0:48
  Speaker 2: I'm not going to Coachella, man.
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: Yeah. It was a you know, I've thought so much
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: about that trip since we got back, and just like
• 0:56
  Speaker 1: I was like, Sarah was probably like, God, I'm so
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: happy to not be around rain now. She did the
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: whole time, was complain. I was like an old granny
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: the whole time, guys, where I was just like, I
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: have to do this again tomorrow. Yeah, I know, I am,
• 1:10
  Speaker 1: and uh. I tend to like if I'm not comfortable,
• 1:15
  Speaker 1: like comfort is king to me at this point in
• 1:18
  Speaker 1: my life, and you know, it was tough. It was
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: just you know, it was a heavy it was a
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: heavy energy to be around. Uh, but we had some
• 1:28
  Speaker 1: really great experiences and I sure did at least we
• 1:31
  Speaker 1: can say that we did it.
• 1:33
  Speaker 2: We did it, and I got to see Justin Bieber
• 1:36
  Speaker 2: up close.
• 1:37
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and personal and personal. Yeah, so today we are
• 1:43
  Speaker 1: going to talk about human bias within relationships specifically.
• 1:48
  Speaker 3: Yeah, so our brains are not at all objective. We
• 1:52
  Speaker 3: think that we're objective, but we're not, and that can
• 1:55
  Speaker 3: really influence our relationships in a negative way. Because the
• 1:59
  Speaker 3: brain runs on glucose. If we had to make conscious,
• 2:03
  Speaker 3: deliberate decisions over everything, we would like be in a
• 2:09
  Speaker 3: diabetic coma. Like we couldn't do it. Yeah, it takes
• 2:12
  Speaker 3: too much mental energy. So the brain takes a ton
• 2:15
  Speaker 3: of shortcuts all the time, and a lot of times
• 2:19
  Speaker 3: the brain gets it wrong. And that has to do
• 2:21
  Speaker 3: with your attachment style for sure, especially in relationships, but
• 2:25
  Speaker 3: just overall in life. We just do not look at
• 2:28
  Speaker 3: things objectively. Everything is subjective, and like Tony Robbin says,
• 2:33
  Speaker 3: your perception is your reality, So perception is everything regardless
• 2:37
  Speaker 3: of what's really going on.
• 2:39
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Yeah, that's so true. I mean even like it
• 2:43
  Speaker 1: just makes me think again about Coachella, Like, because this
• 2:45
  Speaker 1: is another thing I've thought about, like if I'd approached
• 2:47
  Speaker 1: the whole trip differently, would I've had a different experience? Right, So,
• 2:52
  Speaker 1: because my perception going in was like, oh gosh, this
• 2:54
  Speaker 1: is gonna be hard, it's gonna be hell, there's gonna
• 2:56
  Speaker 1: be a lot of people, it's gonna be crowded, it's
• 2:58
  Speaker 1: going to be you know, and so that was sort
• 3:01
  Speaker 1: of the bias I had walking into it. And you know,
• 3:04
  Speaker 1: usually your bias will deliver, like it'll give you the
• 3:07
  Speaker 1: experience that you think you're gonna have.
• 3:10
  Speaker 3: Right absolutely, that is sort of the self fulfilling prophecy,
• 3:14
  Speaker 3: which it's like you have a belief system and so
• 3:16
  Speaker 3: then you behave in ways that then give you that outcome. Right,
• 3:22
  Speaker 3: So you think, oh my gosh, this is going to
• 3:24
  Speaker 3: be so hard. So you walk in and you're just like, oh,
• 3:28
  Speaker 3: where can I sit down? I don't want to be
• 3:30
  Speaker 3: in this crowd, And then you don't really go out
• 3:32
  Speaker 3: and experience the immersive things of coach Ella.
• 3:36
  Speaker 1: Yeah I should have, I know in hindsight, like why
• 3:39
  Speaker 1: we were just so exhausted, like it was like I
• 3:43
  Speaker 1: did think about that too, Like it would have been
• 3:45
  Speaker 1: hard to go earlier and like be there all day.
• 3:50
  Speaker 1: There's just you know, if you had things to do
• 3:53
  Speaker 1: over again. Obviously, it's always easier in hindsight to be like, well,
• 3:56
  Speaker 1: I would have done that differently, and I would have
• 3:57
  Speaker 1: done that differently. I would have thought I would approach
• 3:59
  Speaker 1: that differently because we could have gone like a little
• 4:02
  Speaker 1: bit earlier and maybe.
• 4:03
  Speaker 3: Have experiences like more of the immersive interactive experiences. And
• 4:07
  Speaker 3: then you're like, oh, I get it, Like this is
• 4:09
  Speaker 3: what's really unique about this festival, and we just kind
• 4:12
  Speaker 3: of came in and wanted to see the headliners and
• 4:15
  Speaker 3: then you know, went and then you have to fight
• 4:17
  Speaker 3: the crowd in and then fight the crowd back. So
• 4:20
  Speaker 3: it's kind of an example of the self fulfilling prophecy
• 4:22
  Speaker 3: where you're like, this is going to be hard, but
• 4:24
  Speaker 3: then we really took the hardest route by going when
• 4:26
  Speaker 3: pretty much everybody goes and then staying for the headliner
• 4:30
  Speaker 3: and then having to take like two hours to get
• 4:32
  Speaker 3: out of the festival, when we could have done it
• 4:34
  Speaker 3: differently right and been like, no, we're going to do
• 4:36
  Speaker 3: the immersive experiences and we're going to make this sort
• 4:39
  Speaker 3: of like an all day event.
• 4:40
  Speaker 2: We could have had a different outcome.
• 4:42
  Speaker 3: So that's a big bias that kind of leads our life.
• 4:46
  Speaker 3: And when you think about it in terms of relationships,
• 4:50
  Speaker 3: our attachment wounds absolutely.
• 4:52
  Speaker 2: Are a self fulfilling prophecy.
• 4:54
  Speaker 3: So if we go through the insecure attachment styles, the
• 4:59
  Speaker 3: anxious preoccupy, it is like I'm going to be abandoned, right,
• 5:02
  Speaker 3: So what do they do? They smother people and then
• 5:05
  Speaker 3: people back away from them, and then they're like, see
• 5:07
  Speaker 3: I'm abandoned, right, just total confirmation. The fearful avoidant is
• 5:13
  Speaker 3: like I'm going to be betrayed. They see everything their
• 5:17
  Speaker 3: partner does, they hone in on the negative. They are
• 5:20
  Speaker 3: always sort of scanning and hypervigilant for disappointment, so if
• 5:25
  Speaker 3: you're looking for it, you're going to find it. And
• 5:27
  Speaker 3: then they're like, see, I'm betrayed. And then they are
• 5:29
  Speaker 3: overly critical with their partner. Their partner backs away from
• 5:32
  Speaker 3: them or gets reactive, and they're like, see my partner
• 5:34
  Speaker 3: can't love me safely.
• 5:36
  Speaker 2: Just was of avoidant, They're like, I'm defective. I can't
• 5:40
  Speaker 2: get anything right.
• 5:41
  Speaker 3: So they pull away and then their partner's like, hey,
• 5:46
  Speaker 3: you're not meeting my needs and they're like, see, I
• 5:47
  Speaker 3: just can't give you what you need.
• 5:48
  Speaker 2: I'm defective.
• 5:50
  Speaker 1: So it's a big one.
• 5:51
  Speaker 3: It's kind of like if you don't get that right,
• 5:55
  Speaker 3: And that's really the first capacity building tool of my
• 5:59
  Speaker 3: program is really working on our attachment filter bias, which
• 6:04
  Speaker 3: it's like some.
• 6:05
  Speaker 2: People call it a wound lens. I call it a
• 6:07
  Speaker 2: filter bias.
• 6:08
  Speaker 3: It's just the filter that we view ourselves, our partner,
• 6:12
  Speaker 3: and our relationship through and it is going to be confirmed.
• 6:17
  Speaker 3: And so that is why learning to challenge yourself and
• 6:20
  Speaker 3: challenge your thinking and having good metacognition is absolutely everything
• 6:25
  Speaker 3: in terms of first steps of really becoming attachment secure.
• 6:30
  Speaker 3: And there's some really awesome scientific paradigms that teach people metacognition,
• 6:37
  Speaker 3: and you have to practice. You have to really focus
• 6:41
  Speaker 3: on mastering your mind and trying to challenge yourself. And
• 6:44
  Speaker 3: speaking of challenging yourself, this brings me to the number
• 6:48
  Speaker 3: two bias, which is really really prevalent in all areas
• 6:53
  Speaker 3: of life, which is the confirmation bias. And a lot
• 6:55
  Speaker 3: of people have heard of that, which is just the
• 6:57
  Speaker 3: tendency for us to seek out information confirms our beliefs
• 7:01
  Speaker 3: and reject push away, not pay attention to information that
• 7:08
  Speaker 3: challenges or disconfirms our belief system.
• 7:11
  Speaker 2: So we see this in politics all.
• 7:12
  Speaker 3: The time, where you belong on one side of the fence,
• 7:16
  Speaker 3: all your people are over there, whether you're red or
• 7:19
  Speaker 3: you're blue, and there will be a news article come
• 7:26
  Speaker 3: out and like, if it's from Fox News, the Democrats
• 7:29
  Speaker 3: are going to be like, absolutely not, that's so untrue,
• 7:31
  Speaker 3: it's so twisted. If it comes from CNN, the Republicans
• 7:34
  Speaker 3: will be like, that's not true.
• 7:35
  Speaker 2: It's so twisted. They're so biased.
• 7:38
  Speaker 3: And you know, even if there is some bias, and
• 7:43
  Speaker 3: I believe there is from different news networks, at the
• 7:46
  Speaker 3: end of the day, the facts that support your opinion
• 7:51
  Speaker 3: aren't the only facts that exist. And we're just so unwilling,
• 7:56
  Speaker 3: especially when it comes to politics, because politics are tied
• 7:59
  Speaker 3: to values, which are tied to identity. So at the
• 8:03
  Speaker 3: end of the day, politics really influence our identity. And
• 8:07
  Speaker 3: they've done all these studies, and I've mentioned the terror
• 8:11
  Speaker 3: management theory before, where when our values are challenged, it
• 8:16
  Speaker 3: sort of subconsciously brings up death, subconsciously primes us for
• 8:20
  Speaker 3: death because our values are tied to our legacy that
• 8:23
  Speaker 3: we pass down from generation to generation.
• 8:27
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's pretty fascinating.
• 8:28
  Speaker 3: Yes, yes, absolutely, And so that is why I think
• 8:32
  Speaker 3: people's nervous systems just get so worked up about politics,
• 8:36
  Speaker 3: and we are so reluctant to step outside of our
• 8:40
  Speaker 3: echo chamber. And I think this is what's interesting about
• 8:43
  Speaker 3: being a libertarian who doesn't really conform to either side.
• 8:49
  Speaker 3: I mean, I would say there's one side I conform
• 8:51
  Speaker 3: to a little bit more than the other, but still
• 8:53
  Speaker 3: feel really kind of rejected by both sides. Is I
• 8:56
  Speaker 3: just want to like face palm at the end of
• 8:59
  Speaker 3: the day day when I see people that are just
• 9:02
  Speaker 3: taking facts because I like to look at both sides.
• 9:05
  Speaker 3: I like to see, well what's and Donald and I'll
• 9:07
  Speaker 3: do this, like we'll watch Fox News and then we'll
• 9:10
  Speaker 3: just be like, well, what's se An saying about it?
• 9:11
  Speaker 3: You know, let's turn it over and let's see. And
• 9:14
  Speaker 3: that doesn't hurt us because we're not tied to either side.
• 9:19
  Speaker 2: So we're just like, Okay, well this is the way they're.
• 9:22
  Speaker 3: Twisting it on the shine and this is the way
• 9:25
  Speaker 3: that they're spinning it on that side. And so we
• 9:28
  Speaker 3: realize the truth is likely somewhere in the middle, and
• 9:32
  Speaker 3: we really just want to try to focus on that
• 9:34
  Speaker 3: at the end of the day. And people don't love
• 9:38
  Speaker 3: people like me that are on the fence, but honestly,
• 9:40
  Speaker 3: people like me are who you need to convince when
• 9:43
  Speaker 3: it comes.
• 9:43
  Speaker 2: To election time.
• 9:44
  Speaker 1: That's very true.
• 9:45
  Speaker 3: So, and I think this has been a big problem
• 9:48
  Speaker 3: in politics where people have just pushed the other side
• 9:53
  Speaker 3: so far away, been mean or rude or condescending or whatever.
• 9:58
  Speaker 3: We know, it just gets so.
• 10:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and I'd say most people are more libertarian than
• 10:03
  Speaker 1: they really.
• 10:03
  Speaker 3: Yes, they so are, because they're like, oh, I think
• 10:06
  Speaker 3: the government is right about this, And I'm like, but also,
• 10:10
  Speaker 3: don't you think the government's like the most corrupt and
• 10:13
  Speaker 3: inefficient agency that exists? Most people would say yes to
• 10:16
  Speaker 3: that question. Do you believe the government is corrupt? Most
• 10:19
  Speaker 3: people would say yes, yes. Do you believe they are inefficient?
• 10:21
  Speaker 3: Most people would say yes, yes.
• 10:22
  Speaker 1: I've worked for the federal government. I can I can
• 10:24
  Speaker 1: absolutely clarify that, yes, they are inefficient.
• 10:27
  Speaker 2: Yes, So why do you want to give them more money?
• 10:30
  Speaker 2: I don't know.
• 10:30
  Speaker 3: Why would we not want to be incentivized by the
• 10:32
  Speaker 3: government to give privately.
• 10:34
  Speaker 1: Right or why do all the things that they just
• 10:38
  Speaker 1: tell you to do, Like why follow that? It's I mean,
• 10:42
  Speaker 1: some things you have to obviously, or you're breaking the law,
• 10:46
  Speaker 1: but you know, why not fight fight against it?
• 10:49
  Speaker 2: Yeah?
• 10:49
  Speaker 3: Why do you so? So you want them to have
• 10:51
  Speaker 3: more power, you want them to have more control. Yeah,
• 10:54
  Speaker 3: where are your tax dollars going?
• 10:56
  Speaker 1: Yeah?
• 10:56
  Speaker 3: And I think that's one really interesting thing about like
• 11:00
  Speaker 3: what Spencer Pratt is doing right now in Los Angeles.
• 11:03
  Speaker 3: And we connected with his team, and I hope we
• 11:05
  Speaker 3: can get him on the pod because mayor elections are
• 11:09
  Speaker 3: not supposed to be partisan. I believe, I know they're
• 11:11
  Speaker 3: not in Kentucky.
• 11:13
  Speaker 1: I don't know.
• 11:14
  Speaker 2: I have no idea.
• 11:15
  Speaker 1: Laws are different than okay.
• 11:16
  Speaker 2: I have no idea.
• 11:18
  Speaker 3: But he is all about cleaning things up. So libertarians
• 11:25
  Speaker 3: are very like, there shouldn't be a ton of laws,
• 11:27
  Speaker 3: but the laws that we do have, we need to
• 11:29
  Speaker 3: really enforce them because then there's chaos. So it's, you know,
• 11:33
  Speaker 3: lots of freedom, but you can't hurt people.
• 11:36
  Speaker 2: You can't hurt people.
• 11:37
  Speaker 3: If you hurt people, then we got to have really
• 11:39
  Speaker 3: strict laws around that. And I think he really just
• 11:41
  Speaker 3: wants to clean up Los Angeles.
• 11:43
  Speaker 2: And he is really gone down the rabbit hole about
• 11:47
  Speaker 2: some of the corruption.
• 11:49
  Speaker 1: Well there is a ton I mean.
• 11:52
  Speaker 3: The Palisades burning down, like they just took all that money,
• 11:56
  Speaker 3: like where did it go?
• 11:57
  Speaker 2: Didn't go to victims? So anyway, Yeah.
• 12:01
  Speaker 1: This is an conspiracy Theories episode. This is still not
• 12:04
  Speaker 1: the human bid, this is still scientific.
• 12:06
  Speaker 3: But I'm really excited about what Spencer Prize is doing.
• 12:09
  Speaker 3: That was a big like Hills and looking at me Wiese.
• 12:12
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I was. I mean, obviously I know who he is,
• 12:14
  Speaker 1: but I never got into that show. One question I
• 12:17
  Speaker 1: have that I found interesting, like in terms of human bias,
• 12:20
  Speaker 1: how do you think it distorts like our memories long term?
• 12:24
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it does.
• 12:25
  Speaker 3: It does because research has shown that our memory is
• 12:27
  Speaker 3: not like a Camquarder. And this is why I would
• 12:30
  Speaker 3: love to have Elizabeth Loftus on. I know, we tried
• 12:32
  Speaker 3: to get her on and she was really busy and
• 12:34
  Speaker 3: we couldn't get her on, but she's one of the
• 12:36
  Speaker 3: most famous memory researchers in the field of psychology. She's
• 12:40
  Speaker 3: in California, and it's not like a Camquarder, and so
• 12:44
  Speaker 3: it is influenced by our experiences. It is influenced by
• 12:52
  Speaker 3: people around us and what they have to say about
• 12:54
  Speaker 3: what happened, And yeah, this is our own memories are
• 12:59
  Speaker 3: influenced by our current belief systems.
• 13:01
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and I'm assuming like this is why in a
• 13:03
  Speaker 1: relationship during conflict, two people can walk away with totally
• 13:07
  Speaker 1: different memories of.
• 13:08
  Speaker 3: Them totally situation totally And I see this all the time.
• 13:12
  Speaker 3: And where people get stuck in conflict is it's a
• 13:14
  Speaker 3: battle of perceptions. It's a battle of two realities. And
• 13:19
  Speaker 3: at the end of the day, it's like nobody is
• 13:23
  Speaker 3: going to go through the same experience as their partner
• 13:27
  Speaker 3: and feel or see or have felt the exact same thing, right,
• 13:32
  Speaker 3: And so you can argue over whose reality is correct
• 13:35
  Speaker 3: all day long, because reality is subjective. If this episode
• 13:38
  Speaker 3: doesn't teach you anything, you know, let it be The
• 13:42
  Speaker 3: one thing it does teach you is that reality is
• 13:44
  Speaker 3: completely subjective and people's memories don't work in the same way.
• 13:48
  Speaker 3: And we know that partners of dismissive avoidance are always
• 13:51
  Speaker 3: telling me they don't remember what they said, they don't
• 13:55
  Speaker 3: remember this happened, they don't remember they promised X, No
• 13:58
  Speaker 3: they didn't because they were in friezmo.
• 14:00
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so they're not processing anything.
• 14:03
  Speaker 1: Yeah, no executive function.
• 14:05
  Speaker 3: And then they're saying, you're gaslighting me. And so it's like, gosh,
• 14:11
  Speaker 3: so many couples that I have come through my practice
• 14:14
  Speaker 3: are stuck in that track.
• 14:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you could see why it would be destructive.
• 14:17
  Speaker 2: It's so destructive.
• 14:18
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 14:19
  Speaker 3: So that's why I tell people when I teach about
• 14:20
  Speaker 3: conflict resolution. You are not required to agree with your partner.
• 14:24
  Speaker 3: You are not required to say, you know what your
• 14:26
  Speaker 3: level of sensitivity in the situation is appropriate.
• 14:29
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 14:30
  Speaker 3: You're also not allowed to be like you're too sensitive.
• 14:33
  Speaker 3: You have to understand and accept how they are being impacted.
• 14:37
  Speaker 3: That this is the way that they're taking it, and
• 14:40
  Speaker 3: that is their reality, and you're required to accept that
• 14:45
  Speaker 3: and understand it, not agree with it. You can still
• 14:47
  Speaker 3: have your own reality, right. You can think that the
• 14:50
  Speaker 3: thing that you said was not passive aggressive, but if
• 14:52
  Speaker 3: your partner heard it as passive aggressive, you can argue
• 14:55
  Speaker 3: with them all day long that it wasn't that.
• 14:58
  Speaker 2: If that's how they hurt it, that's they're sticking with.
• 15:00
  Speaker 3: Yeah, so you have to go, Okay, well, I really
• 15:04
  Speaker 3: want to do this different for you next time. So
• 15:07
  Speaker 3: what about it felt passive aggressive? Can I choose different
• 15:10
  Speaker 3: language next time that maybe just won't come off that
• 15:12
  Speaker 3: way even though that was wasn't my intention.
• 15:15
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and that's how we end up getting somewhere.
• 15:17
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Accountability, I mean it comes in play huge there
• 15:21
  Speaker 1: in terms of just taking a step back impact over intention.
• 15:24
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you're the road toll was paid with good intentions.
• 15:27
  Speaker 3: Her grandma used to say that, And it's true your
• 15:30
  Speaker 3: intention at the end of the day, Like if you
• 15:32
  Speaker 3: hit somebody with your car, you may not have meant
• 15:35
  Speaker 3: to hit them, but you still did. Right if they're
• 15:37
  Speaker 3: laying on the ground bleeding, you're not really like, well,
• 15:40
  Speaker 3: I think you're just being too sensitive here. I think that, uh,
• 15:44
  Speaker 3: you know, you're bleeding a lot. I think you're being
• 15:45
  Speaker 3: too sensitive.
• 15:46
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, so I didn't.
• 15:48
  Speaker 2: Mean to hit you. So I don't think I have
• 15:49
  Speaker 2: to deal with this right.
• 15:50
  Speaker 1: Now, right, figure it out.
• 15:52
  Speaker 2: Figure it out. No, you're gonna deal with the imp fact.
• 15:54
  Speaker 3: You're gonna call nine one one hopefully, and then yes,
• 15:57
  Speaker 3: at the end of the day, eventually you can discuss
• 16:00
  Speaker 3: your intentions like, hey, I didn't really mean to hurt you.
• 16:02
  Speaker 3: I hope you know that, but I recognize that I did,
• 16:05
  Speaker 3: and I want to learn kind of why it landed
• 16:07
  Speaker 3: the way it did, so I can do it differently
• 16:08
  Speaker 3: next time. Yeah, that is how healthy couples work out conflict,
• 16:12
  Speaker 3: as we don't always agree that things happen the way
• 16:16
  Speaker 3: our partner believes that they happen, and we don't have
• 16:18
  Speaker 3: to agree on that.
• 16:19
  Speaker 2: But that's where people get stuck.
• 16:20
  Speaker 3: So and then the confirmation bias just makes it all
• 16:23
  Speaker 3: worse because we tend to only focus on the moments
• 16:27
  Speaker 3: of the interaction that confirm our belief. You're betraying me,
• 16:31
  Speaker 3: I'm defective, you're abandoning me, instead of really being able
• 16:36
  Speaker 3: to objectively look at things as a whole. And so
• 16:40
  Speaker 3: the metacognition tools that I teach will really you know,
• 16:44
  Speaker 3: the main tool that I teach is focused on trying
• 16:47
  Speaker 3: to challenge ourselves and trying to make our filter a
• 16:51
  Speaker 3: more secure objective filter. Even though we will never be
• 16:53
  Speaker 3: totally objective.
• 16:54
  Speaker 1: That was going to be my next question.
• 16:55
  Speaker 3: We can't ever be totally objective, but we sure can
• 16:58
  Speaker 3: challenge our belief. Yeah, and that really does open up
• 17:02
  Speaker 3: your brain to possibilities that.
• 17:06
  Speaker 2: You might not always be right.
• 17:08
  Speaker 1: That's right.
• 17:09
  Speaker 3: I have couples a lot where there's one partner that
• 17:12
  Speaker 3: is just they've never been wrong in the entire relationship
• 17:15
  Speaker 3: in some miraculous way, right, Like how you literally have
• 17:18
  Speaker 3: never been wrong. You're telling me in your entire twenty years,
• 17:22
  Speaker 3: you have never once been wrong, You've never once done
• 17:24
  Speaker 3: anything wrong to hurt your partner. And I mean they'll
• 17:29
  Speaker 3: just usually get quiet and their partner's like, yeah, nope,
• 17:31
  Speaker 3: never heard accountability, and they are dealing with so much
• 17:35
  Speaker 3: internalized shame.
• 17:36
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's what it is.
• 17:37
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, every person with insecure attachment has a
• 17:42
  Speaker 3: self concept partially built upon shame. So it's no wonder
• 17:47
  Speaker 3: that and shame is so intolerable as an emotion is.
• 17:50
  Speaker 1: And if people would only realize that, if you just
• 17:52
  Speaker 1: faced it head on and just said, you know what,
• 17:55
  Speaker 1: I'm just going to follow the sword here a little bit,
• 17:57
  Speaker 1: it's so freeing.
• 17:59
  Speaker 2: It is so freeing.
• 18:01
  Speaker 3: It's so freeing because then you're like, oh, and I'm
• 18:03
  Speaker 3: not telling people to fawn and truly like take responsibility
• 18:06
  Speaker 3: for something they genuinely didn't do. But if it's just
• 18:10
  Speaker 3: your perception that you didn't do it, and it's not
• 18:13
  Speaker 3: like this, I went to a strip club, No, I
• 18:15
  Speaker 3: didn't like that's very kind of factual, but something like
• 18:19
  Speaker 3: you were passive aggressive, No I wasn't.
• 18:22
  Speaker 2: That's based on how the ear heard it. That is
• 18:26
  Speaker 2: very subjective.
• 18:27
  Speaker 3: Very so I think we need to stop using the
• 18:31
  Speaker 3: term gas lighting as much.
• 18:32
  Speaker 2: As we do.
• 18:33
  Speaker 1: Oh, it's definitely overused, very.
• 18:35
  Speaker 3: Much overuse, just like calling everybody a narcissist. Not everybody's
• 18:38
  Speaker 3: a narcissist.
• 18:38
  Speaker 1: Yeah, really break down gaslighting and what it really is,
• 18:41
  Speaker 1: because I think people do kind of overuse it, and
• 18:44
  Speaker 1: then it's there's a misconception around it.
• 18:47
  Speaker 2: Gaslighting is when someone tries to make you believe something
• 18:50
  Speaker 2: that is objectively false, or tries to make you not
• 18:53
  Speaker 2: believe something that is objectively true. And so then the
• 18:56
  Speaker 2: word objective is really important. There can't apply it to
• 19:00
  Speaker 2: subjective things like how you said something. We can apply
• 19:04
  Speaker 2: it to objective things like, for example, when I caught
• 19:08
  Speaker 2: my first husband cheating and it was the time that
• 19:11
  Speaker 2: made me file for divorce. I read this whole long
• 19:13
  Speaker 2: message from his affair partner about their relationship, and she
• 19:17
  Speaker 2: was talking about their relationship and she said, I love you,
• 19:20
  Speaker 2: and she said we should stop this relationship maybe, and
• 19:23
  Speaker 2: you should focus on your family.
• 19:25
  Speaker 1: And there in black and white, and.
• 19:27
  Speaker 3: When I went upstairs and ripped the sea pap off
• 19:30
  Speaker 3: his face and screamed at him and we had a
• 19:35
  Speaker 3: light physical altercation. He was like, that's not what you read.
• 19:40
  Speaker 3: I don't know what you think you read, but you
• 19:41
  Speaker 3: didn't read that. That is not what was said. There's
• 19:43
  Speaker 3: no way because I'm not having an affair. I don't
• 19:45
  Speaker 3: know who that was. I don't know what she said,
• 19:47
  Speaker 3: but you're wrong. So I read it in black and white,
• 19:50
  Speaker 3: and I read it more than once, and I emailed
• 19:52
  Speaker 3: it to myself. I had it.
• 19:55
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I have.
• 19:55
  Speaker 3: Emailed all those screenshots to myself, and I could go
• 19:59
  Speaker 3: back and reread them, and I'm like, I know exactly
• 20:01
  Speaker 3: what I've freaking read. Don't like, I swear to goodness,
• 20:08
  Speaker 3: and I'm not trying to speak ill of the dead,
• 20:11
  Speaker 3: But for individuals that struggle with the same struggles he had,
• 20:16
  Speaker 3: you could literally catch them in the bed with somebody
• 20:18
  Speaker 3: else and they would still deny it that you didn't
• 20:20
  Speaker 3: see what you thought you saw.
• 20:21
  Speaker 1: Yeah, my ex was the same way.
• 20:22
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so that is gaslighting, not like, oh.
• 20:29
  Speaker 3: He he doesn't remember saying XYZ in a conversation two
• 20:32
  Speaker 3: months ago. Maybe he doesn't really remember it, because memory
• 20:36
  Speaker 3: is not like a video recorder.
• 20:38
  Speaker 2: It just doesn't play back.
• 20:39
  Speaker 1: It's hard. I don't stuff all the time.
• 20:41
  Speaker 2: I know, no memory as holes in it. We can fabulate.
• 20:44
  Speaker 3: Can fabulate means that you fill in the gaps of
• 20:47
  Speaker 3: the holes with something that you know is biased towards
• 20:51
  Speaker 3: what you believe.
• 20:52
  Speaker 1: And I think resentment, you know, obviously plays a huge
• 20:56
  Speaker 1: role in your bias too. Absolutely, you know when resentment builds.
• 21:00
  Speaker 1: And again, you know, we all know what resentment is
• 21:03
  Speaker 1: here now, which is based on what you tolerate.
• 21:06
  Speaker 3: Lack of boundaries. Yeah, it's your own lack of boundaries.
• 21:09
  Speaker 3: You're mad at yourself, yes, mad at yourself because you
• 21:11
  Speaker 3: tolerated it. You're mad at yourself because you're in the
• 21:14
  Speaker 3: situation you got yourself in and you don't know how
• 21:16
  Speaker 3: to get yourself out and you can't face the pain
• 21:18
  Speaker 3: of detachment for whatever reason.
• 21:21
  Speaker 2: There could be a lot of reasons you can't face
• 21:22
  Speaker 2: the pain.
• 21:23
  Speaker 1: And that's really hard to like to face when you're
• 21:27
  Speaker 1: dealing with like this bias that you might have towards
• 21:30
  Speaker 1: your partner or anyone, because when resentment takes over, it's
• 21:34
  Speaker 1: hard to separate the two. It's really hard because you're
• 21:38
  Speaker 1: just you think that this person has wronged you in
• 21:40
  Speaker 1: some way.
• 21:41
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 21:42
  Speaker 3: Absolutely, And people always act in alignment with their identity.
• 21:48
  Speaker 3: This is a fundamental psychological fact. People will always act
• 21:53
  Speaker 3: in alignment with their identity. And if your partner is
• 21:57
  Speaker 3: a victim and that is the identity that that they
• 22:00
  Speaker 3: want to keep in the relationship, they are always the victim.
• 22:03
  Speaker 3: That means you are always the perpetrator. And there is
• 22:05
  Speaker 3: no amount of convincing them or saying things in a
• 22:08
  Speaker 3: different way or whatever that is going to convince them
• 22:12
  Speaker 3: that they are not the victim because that has become
• 22:15
  Speaker 3: their identity in the relationship.
• 22:17
  Speaker 1: How do you break identity within your practice because that's hard.
• 22:24
  Speaker 3: Well, I think the first thing that I do is
• 22:27
  Speaker 3: I help people feel really seen and understood, and then
• 22:33
  Speaker 3: we gently have to shift perspective and gently enter accountability
• 22:39
  Speaker 3: into the equation.
• 22:41
  Speaker 2: So it's not.
• 22:44
  Speaker 1: It's a gradual build.
• 22:46
  Speaker 3: Gradual build, and it is a very much building a
• 22:50
  Speaker 3: rapport where they know I'm on their side and that
• 22:53
  Speaker 3: I want the best for them and believing their experiences.
• 22:59
  Speaker 3: And then we gently try to shift perception and we
• 23:03
  Speaker 3: kind of look at the facts and then we have
• 23:05
  Speaker 3: to reinforce. And this doesn't make you bad, because remember,
• 23:08
  Speaker 3: shame says you are bad, and all the insecure styles
• 23:12
  Speaker 3: are dealing with shame in their own way, and so
• 23:14
  Speaker 3: and then it's gently sort of reinforcing that you're not bad.
• 23:18
  Speaker 2: This is just your habit.
• 23:19
  Speaker 1: Yeah, And these winds are deep and they know and
• 23:21
  Speaker 1: they form, you know, they formed from years and years
• 23:24
  Speaker 1: and years.
• 23:24
  Speaker 3: And then this isn't your fault that this is. This
• 23:27
  Speaker 3: is how you've learned to respond. This is just an
• 23:29
  Speaker 3: adaptive response. Doesn't make you bad. It just means that
• 23:33
  Speaker 3: you're not getting the most out of your relationship. It
• 23:35
  Speaker 3: just means that you know it's causing you more difficulty
• 23:38
  Speaker 3: than it should have to. And then we get people
• 23:40
  Speaker 3: to slowly start to take little bits of accountability and
• 23:45
  Speaker 3: then they can build up to it. And then when
• 23:49
  Speaker 3: it finally clicks that when you fuck up, pardon my friends,
• 23:53
  Speaker 3: you just you're just like, wow, I fucked up. I'm sorry,
• 23:56
  Speaker 3: like I love you, and let me figure out how
• 23:58
  Speaker 3: to do it differently. And then we really really try
• 24:00
  Speaker 3: to get people to see that conflict is an opportunity
• 24:04
  Speaker 3: to learn how to love your partner better based on
• 24:07
  Speaker 3: what they need versus always a situation where you're being
• 24:10
  Speaker 3: attacked and you're the victim, and it's just it's all
• 24:15
  Speaker 3: perception at the end of the day, which brings me
• 24:18
  Speaker 3: to two really important human biases. See, there's lots of them.
• 24:24
  Speaker 3: There are lots of them. One is the fundamental attribution error.
• 24:28
  Speaker 3: And I see this all the time. When we do
• 24:36
  Speaker 3: something good, we tend to attribute it to internal stable
• 24:41
  Speaker 3: characteristics like I got an A on test, I'm so smart, right,
• 24:50
  Speaker 3: And when other people do something good, we tend to
• 24:54
  Speaker 3: attribute it to like the situation, they had an advantage somehow,
• 25:00
  Speaker 3: they got an A on the test.
• 25:00
  Speaker 2: The teacher just likes.
• 25:01
  Speaker 3: Them better, right, Interesting and vice versa for when something
• 25:08
  Speaker 3: negative happens. I failed a test, the teacher doesn't like me,
• 25:13
  Speaker 3: so they you know, they graded my essay too hard. Well,
• 25:17
  Speaker 3: they got an F on the test while they're dumb. Yeah,
• 25:22
  Speaker 3: So in relationships, how does this translate? Okay, Well, I
• 25:26
  Speaker 3: didn't text them back. It was because I was overwhelmed
• 25:28
  Speaker 3: and so busy, and I really didn't mean to hurt
• 25:30
  Speaker 3: them by not texting them. I just had a really
• 25:33
  Speaker 3: rough day and I was just trying to keep my
• 25:35
  Speaker 3: head above water. They didn't text me back. They're unreliable.
• 25:39
  Speaker 3: I can't trust them, see how And when it comes
• 25:45
  Speaker 3: to us, if it's good, it's personality.
• 25:47
  Speaker 2: If it's bad, it's situation and vice versa.
• 25:50
  Speaker 3: For other people, it's very destructive, very destructive, and we
• 25:54
  Speaker 3: don't realize that we're doing it. And I think this
• 25:58
  Speaker 3: is especially true, I would say for the fearful avoidance.
• 26:03
  Speaker 3: Because they everything their partner does, they assume their partner
• 26:06
  Speaker 3: has the worst intention, right, And I even catch myself
• 26:09
  Speaker 3: Donald and I catch ourselves with each other doing that.
• 26:12
  Speaker 3: We assume that they said something and they must have
• 26:15
  Speaker 3: the worst intention. They you meant to hurt me by that, right,
• 26:19
  Speaker 3: And we have to back up and be like, Okay,
• 26:22
  Speaker 3: I recognize, like you love me and you didn't mean
• 26:24
  Speaker 3: to hurt me, like that was my perceptions talking.
• 26:27
  Speaker 1: Or check your tone, you know, I mean sometimes tone
• 26:29
  Speaker 1: can be a little spice, a little spicy.
• 26:32
  Speaker 3: Yeah, Because so Donald was raised with a lot of
• 26:36
  Speaker 3: like passive aggressiveness, like his mom, she's a funny chick.
• 26:38
  Speaker 2: I think that's why Donald's sense of humor is so hilarious.
• 26:41
  Speaker 3: Yeah, because he's just like his humor is very like
• 26:44
  Speaker 3: passive aggressive, right, and very like witty and just.
• 26:48
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so even like his confrontation is the same way.
• 26:51
  Speaker 3: Yeah, his confrontation's kind of the same way. Like there's
• 26:53
  Speaker 3: almost some humor to it. Yeah, And like now it's
• 26:57
  Speaker 3: hilarious because he'll say something, it'll come out kind of
• 26:59
  Speaker 3: passive aggressive. I'll be like, I totally didn't mean that.
• 27:02
  Speaker 3: Hold on, hold on, let me back up.
• 27:03
  Speaker 2: Let me redo that.
• 27:04
  Speaker 1: Check y'all sales.
• 27:06
  Speaker 3: Like he catches it immediately now because he knows I
• 27:08
  Speaker 3: don't like it. Sure, and we've had to have that
• 27:12
  Speaker 3: conversation and then I do things that he's just like,
• 27:16
  Speaker 3: there's the look and I'm like, sorry, hold on, I
• 27:19
  Speaker 3: didn't mean.
• 27:20
  Speaker 1: Iteah, I didn't mean it.
• 27:22
  Speaker 2: I didn't mean it. I love you, I love you,
• 27:23
  Speaker 2: I love you.
• 27:24
  Speaker 1: But it's just the quick repair correct.
• 27:29
  Speaker 3: Yeah, to be like, yeah, I totally was looking at
• 27:32
  Speaker 3: that the wrong way. I was taking myself way too
• 27:34
  Speaker 3: seriously in that moment. Hold on, And that's okay. And
• 27:38
  Speaker 3: that's a sign of being a healthy couple is just
• 27:42
  Speaker 3: taking accountability, correcting it quick and realizing that that doesn't
• 27:47
  Speaker 3: make you a bad person, just makes you human. You
• 27:50
  Speaker 3: made a human error, and a lot of people that
• 27:53
  Speaker 3: grew up, especially with heavy criticism or where the focus
• 27:58
  Speaker 3: was so much more on responsibility and achievement over emotional
• 28:02
  Speaker 3: attunement and how you felt they struggle, man.
• 28:05
  Speaker 1: Yeah, they struggle. Yeah, well, and I could see where
• 28:08
  Speaker 1: it could get really hard if you're dealing with a
• 28:12
  Speaker 1: dismissive avoidant who just sort of refuses to refuse it,
• 28:17
  Speaker 1: refuses to take any accountability or refuse to even like
• 28:20
  Speaker 1: talk to you.
• 28:21
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I know that happens, because then you get the
• 28:23
  Speaker 3: stone wall, and it's because they they're subconscious is screaming
• 28:28
  Speaker 3: you're defective.
• 28:29
  Speaker 2: You're defective, you're a failure.
• 28:31
  Speaker 3: They found it, they saw it, and you're bad and
• 28:33
  Speaker 3: you can't be fixed. That's what the subconscious is screaming.
• 28:36
  Speaker 3: But the conscious mind does its best to preserve self esteem,
• 28:39
  Speaker 3: so it flips it and throws the shame on the partner.
• 28:42
  Speaker 2: That's that's what it does.
• 28:43
  Speaker 3: It fights shame first and projects it onto the partner
• 28:45
  Speaker 3: by saying you're too sensitive. That's not how it went.
• 28:48
  Speaker 3: You know, I don't know why you're mad at this
• 28:50
  Speaker 3: or you do x y Z that. I don't like,
• 28:53
  Speaker 3: let me take my shame and put it on you.
• 28:55
  Speaker 3: So then I don't have.
• 28:55
  Speaker 2: To face it guilty.
• 28:57
  Speaker 3: And then if that doesn't work, especially if a dismissive
• 29:00
  Speaker 3: avoidance with a fearful avoidant who has that deep need
• 29:03
  Speaker 3: to be understood, and they hold their ground and dig
• 29:06
  Speaker 3: their heels and know you really did hurt me, know
• 29:08
  Speaker 3: what really did happen like this, then they run away
• 29:10
  Speaker 3: fighting it didn't work. So my last resort is to
• 29:13
  Speaker 3: run away and shut down and try to dissociate from
• 29:15
  Speaker 3: it so I don't have to deal with that.
• 29:16
  Speaker 1: Which is only going to cause the fa to just
• 29:17
  Speaker 1: be like, you come talk to me right now.
• 29:20
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and then we're in the horrendous FADA trap. And
• 29:24
  Speaker 3: I've had a lot of couples lately, now that I'm
• 29:26
  Speaker 3: back to doing individuals and couples work, I see a
• 29:32
  Speaker 3: lot of the FADA.
• 29:33
  Speaker 2: It's like the number one pattern. I see, Yeah, two fas.
• 29:37
  Speaker 3: Sometimes a lot of times people come in thinking their
• 29:40
  Speaker 3: FADA it's really two face.
• 29:42
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and one just leans more dismissive.
• 29:43
  Speaker 3: Yeah, one just sounds more dismissive because the other ones
• 29:46
  Speaker 3: like so hyper critical. Yeah yeah, yeah, so fundamental attribution error.
• 29:52
  Speaker 2: But then we have the self serving bias.
• 29:54
  Speaker 1: Oh what's this one?
• 29:55
  Speaker 3: This is very it's the cousin of the fundamental attribution error.
• 30:00
  Speaker 3: It's basically this idea that it's just about self. It's
• 30:03
  Speaker 3: just the idea that when it's sort of whereas the
• 30:06
  Speaker 3: fundamental attribution error is self versus other comparison, this is
• 30:11
  Speaker 3: self versus self comparison. So if I make a mistake,
• 30:15
  Speaker 3: there's a situation that caused me to do it. If
• 30:18
  Speaker 3: I did something good, it's because of who I am.
• 30:20
  Speaker 3: So again i ace the test, it's because I'm super smart.
• 30:24
  Speaker 3: If I fail a test, it's because teacher didn't like me.
• 30:26
  Speaker 3: So it's not a self versus other comparison. It's the
• 30:29
  Speaker 3: self versus self comparison and self versus self among different
• 30:35
  Speaker 3: circumstances and outcomes. So the self serving bias just exists. Again,
• 30:40
  Speaker 3: it's really the conscious mind existing to preserve self esteem.
• 30:43
  Speaker 1: This is one that I could see becoming more and
• 30:45
  Speaker 1: more prevalent in today's society. Yes, because of the society
• 30:49
  Speaker 1: we live in.
• 30:50
  Speaker 3: Yes, and social media, yes is so huge. Yes, And
• 30:56
  Speaker 3: I really I think that's one of the things that
• 30:58
  Speaker 3: we saw at Coachella. So I think being a millennial
• 31:02
  Speaker 3: like coach Alla, with like all the gen z.
• 31:05
  Speaker 1: It was icky. It's sorry, it was very icky.
• 31:09
  Speaker 3: Shall there were some there was a lot of ickiness.
• 31:11
  Speaker 3: Now the people our age, I felt like I vibed
• 31:13
  Speaker 3: with them.
• 31:14
  Speaker 1: Like when I came out and all the millennial moms
• 31:16
  Speaker 1: started being like.
• 31:17
  Speaker 3: Oh my gosh, then you found your people. You found
• 31:22
  Speaker 3: your people. And there were a lot more millennials in
• 31:24
  Speaker 3: the VIP yeah. Yeah, So so it was like the
• 31:27
  Speaker 3: people that you know, it's cool.
• 31:28
  Speaker 2: Yeah, we're cool.
• 31:29
  Speaker 3: We're just going to say over here, I'm not gonna lie.
• 31:32
  Speaker 3: We only visited one out of many VIP sections. Again,
• 31:35
  Speaker 3: we just didn't We didn't do the whole thing.
• 31:37
  Speaker 1: The energy just wasn't well.
• 31:39
  Speaker 3: It was the time difference, Yes, I think we were
• 31:42
  Speaker 3: so jet lagged, like the three hour time difference.
• 31:44
  Speaker 1: It was Murphy's trip, like.
• 31:49
  Speaker 3: Like eyes, I cannot even tell you how many things
• 31:51
  Speaker 3: went wrong on this trip. And then I kept being like,
• 31:54
  Speaker 3: we're speaking life, it's going to turn around.
• 31:56
  Speaker 2: And it did turn around. It did turn around. Justin
• 31:59
  Speaker 2: Bieber was finning tasting. She abandoned me. I totally told
• 32:05
  Speaker 2: you you could.
• 32:06
  Speaker 1: You did. You were very understanding.
• 32:09
  Speaker 3: I was like, I'm getting up close for Justin Bieber,
• 32:11
  Speaker 3: no matter what just so you know, if you're with
• 32:14
  Speaker 3: me cool, if you're not, I'll see you in the
• 32:16
  Speaker 3: VIP lounge when work.
• 32:17
  Speaker 1: Yeah, And I just, you know, it's so funny because
• 32:19
  Speaker 1: Sabrina Carboner night when you say, I was like, I
• 32:22
  Speaker 1: got this, like let's get close, let's get close, And
• 32:24
  Speaker 1: I had like this mild freakout moment. I just without a.
• 32:29
  Speaker 3: Meeting place guy. She literally just turned around and bolted.
• 32:34
  Speaker 1: You couldn't miss me. Like I was like, like my
• 32:36
  Speaker 1: lights were like I had a lit up crowd and
• 32:38
  Speaker 1: a lit up jacket, but I just I don't know.
• 32:41
  Speaker 1: I had this mild freakout moment and I didn't even
• 32:44
  Speaker 1: think about And I told Sarah this later. But when
• 32:46
  Speaker 1: I was nineteen, I went to music festival in Atlanta
• 32:49
  Speaker 1: and the Counting Crows were playing and two of my
• 32:52
  Speaker 1: girlfriends and me got stuck in not a mosh pit.
• 32:56
  Speaker 1: It wasn't a mosh pit at all. It was just
• 32:58
  Speaker 1: this really really tight crowd out, shoulder to shoulder, one push,
• 33:02
  Speaker 1: one person started to push, which caused another person to
• 33:05
  Speaker 1: start to push, and then everyone was pushing and before
• 33:08
  Speaker 1: you knew it, you're just like you're packed in like
• 33:11
  Speaker 1: sardines and like I can hear.
• 33:13
  Speaker 3: There was a few moments like that at bebo Oh
• 33:16
  Speaker 3: I could there was a few moments where, like my heart,
• 33:18
  Speaker 3: people started pushing and like I told the people around me, See,
• 33:21
  Speaker 3: I'm a music festival pro. My husband has taught me well.
• 33:24
  Speaker 3: I said, if people start pushing, put your arms up
• 33:26
  Speaker 3: like in a like a goal post, like flat goal
• 33:31
  Speaker 3: post position, and I said, keep your arms out like this.
• 33:33
  Speaker 2: They won't push into your elbows.
• 33:36
  Speaker 1: But what happens, I mean, you you're talking and again
• 33:38
  Speaker 1: like see this is where my brain goes now that
• 33:40
  Speaker 1: I'm older, and like I tend to you know, you
• 33:47
  Speaker 1: just become more awake, right, So you become more you
• 33:49
  Speaker 1: become more aware of your surroundings and like even being
• 33:53
  Speaker 1: up in the VIP pavilion and seeing you're talking for
• 33:58
  Speaker 1: football fields of people.
• 33:59
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean so I was probably twenty rows back
• 34:02
  Speaker 3: from Beiber and if you were from the side, that's crazy.
• 34:05
  Speaker 1: So you think, like people start pushing this way, Yeah,
• 34:08
  Speaker 1: you know, that's my biggest sphere. It's like, it's one
• 34:10
  Speaker 1: of my biggest fears is in Like I know it
• 34:13
  Speaker 1: may be a little far fetched, but like being trampled
• 34:16
  Speaker 1: or suffocated to death. So it's like I couldn't. I
• 34:20
  Speaker 1: was just like, no, I can't boo. I'm out. I'm like,
• 34:22
  Speaker 1: I love you, but I'm like freaking mildly freaking out here.
• 34:26
  Speaker 1: And so it was It's funny because Beaver Night Sarah
• 34:30
  Speaker 1: spent four hours by the stage and I just spent
• 34:32
  Speaker 1: four hours in BP just like I took a little nap,
• 34:35
  Speaker 1: I ate some food, like you know. So it was
• 34:38
  Speaker 1: just really interesting.
• 34:39
  Speaker 3: There was one point though, ten minutes, but it was
• 34:42
  Speaker 3: probably ten minutes before the set was over. He played
• 34:44
  Speaker 3: Yukon and I knew that that was at the end
• 34:46
  Speaker 3: of the set, even though he switched out some songs.
• 34:49
  Speaker 2: And I went down for a second.
• 34:51
  Speaker 3: Like I got a wave of heat that just it
• 34:53
  Speaker 3: was like like a heat wave of if it was
• 34:56
  Speaker 3: a perimena puzzle hot flash, I think maybe just because
• 34:59
  Speaker 3: we were so close. Yeah, And so I had to
• 35:01
  Speaker 3: crouch down and put my head between my legs and
• 35:03
  Speaker 3: then I dumped my water bottle on me, and then
• 35:04
  Speaker 3: I was fine.
• 35:05
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's just overheating.
• 35:07
  Speaker 1: If if a crowd starts to push and you fall,
• 35:09
  Speaker 1: you protect your head first. You protect your head in
• 35:11
  Speaker 1: your neck first. I mean because elbows are only going
• 35:13
  Speaker 1: to go so far.
• 35:14
  Speaker 2: And then you come down and then you just you
• 35:16
  Speaker 2: protect your head.
• 35:17
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you protect your head and you give yourself like
• 35:19
  Speaker 1: a pocket right to breathe otherwise you you know, I
• 35:23
  Speaker 1: don't even want to think about it.
• 35:24
  Speaker 2: We're straying, We're.
• 35:27
  Speaker 1: It's a little bias again. It may be a bias
• 35:30
  Speaker 1: of fear there for me, just because I had that
• 35:32
  Speaker 1: one experience.
• 35:33
  Speaker 2: Glimpses and I was like, not today, Satan, no, just yeah.
• 35:37
  Speaker 1: And I you know, I commend you for that. I mean,
• 35:39
  Speaker 1: you are the true MVP there because I was just like,
• 35:41
  Speaker 1: I love you, honey, but I can't. I can't do this.
• 35:43
  Speaker 1: And I appreciate you respecting that boundary for sure. But anyway,
• 35:47
  Speaker 1: I can openly admit that maybe I went in with
• 35:51
  Speaker 1: a negative bias to Coachaila. I think you did oh
• 35:54
  Speaker 1: one percent. Look, it ain't for me, which is fine,
• 35:58
  Speaker 1: but Gab.
• 35:59
  Speaker 2: You'll go with me next time.
• 36:00
  Speaker 1: Take it.
• 36:01
  Speaker 3: But the only person that could get me back there
• 36:03
  Speaker 3: is Taylor Swift. She's the only one. Yeah. If it's
• 36:06
  Speaker 3: not the Beebes or ts, sorry, I don't know.
• 36:08
  Speaker 2: Maybe someday there'll be somebody else.
• 36:10
  Speaker 1: Elvis is the only person he'd have to come back
• 36:12
  Speaker 1: from the dead.
• 36:12
  Speaker 3: Guys.
• 36:13
  Speaker 1: Okay, so but again, I'm still grateful that you know
• 36:18
  Speaker 1: that you took me and that I can say that
• 36:22
  Speaker 1: I did it. You know that I experienced it and
• 36:24
  Speaker 1: I did it so for sure. But I wouldn't even
• 36:28
  Speaker 1: do it again for a meal, not even a million dollars.
• 36:32
  Speaker 2: Wow, Okay, I didn't realize it was that bad.
• 36:35
  Speaker 1: That bad. It's just that, like dogs is a lot
• 36:37
  Speaker 1: of mine now I steal. Okay, maybe for a meal,
• 36:39
  Speaker 1: but like I I don't know, I just want to.
• 36:43
  Speaker 1: I'm just at a space in my life, I think
• 36:44
  Speaker 1: where I just want to spend my time with my
• 36:46
  Speaker 1: family and nature, baking bread, doing like granny shit. You know.
• 36:52
  Speaker 3: Yeah, we're really tired of life and want I want
• 36:56
  Speaker 3: to do.
• 36:57
  Speaker 1: I want to I want soft living, you know, I
• 36:59
  Speaker 1: want I only want to be in places where God
• 37:01
  Speaker 1: is fully present. And I don't know if God was
• 37:04
  Speaker 1: present at all in that space, and I just.
• 37:06
  Speaker 2: I think he was Maybe I think he was, Yeah,
• 37:08
  Speaker 2: I do. I think he had. I think he had
• 37:11
  Speaker 2: his hand on JB.
• 37:13
  Speaker 3: Because it was wild and there were moments where I
• 37:16
  Speaker 3: was like, oh no, people are starting to push and
• 37:18
  Speaker 3: once you're in the pit, you can't get out. No,
• 37:19
  Speaker 3: you can't get out, you cannot turn. It was hilarious.
• 37:22
  Speaker 3: There's this one guy that was like.
• 37:24
  Speaker 1: I got to pee.
• 37:24
  Speaker 3: He was, oh, yeah, tell the story about the couple
• 37:26
  Speaker 3: and oh my gosh, that's so hilarious.
• 37:28
  Speaker 2: Okay, then we'll wrap it back up.
• 37:29
  Speaker 3: If this is boring, just skip ahead thirty seconds. There
• 37:33
  Speaker 3: was this British couple I was standing next to and
• 37:35
  Speaker 3: they were absolutely hilarious. This is the first time in
• 37:37
  Speaker 3: the United States. And this one guy was like, I
• 37:39
  Speaker 3: have to pee. And literally we were probably thirty minutes
• 37:43
  Speaker 3: out from Justin Bieber getting on stage and a lot
• 37:46
  Speaker 3: of people were sitting down. There was no getting out. Yeah,
• 37:49
  Speaker 3: and his wife was like, you have to come back.
• 37:51
  Speaker 2: You have to.
• 37:51
  Speaker 3: I'm not missing Justin Bieber without you. You have to
• 37:54
  Speaker 3: come back. And he's like, I'm going to do everything.
• 37:55
  Speaker 3: I was like, there's no way, honey. I said, there's
• 37:57
  Speaker 3: no way. I said, we're four or five hundred people
• 37:59
  Speaker 3: deep at this point. Thousands that yeah, maybe thousands at
• 38:03
  Speaker 3: this point.
• 38:04
  Speaker 1: I saw it, babe.
• 38:05
  Speaker 2: Yeah, maybe there was one hundred and seventy five thousand
• 38:07
  Speaker 2: people at Coachella.
• 38:08
  Speaker 1: We ring football fields of people.
• 38:10
  Speaker 3: Okay, there was no I was like, you're not getting
• 38:11
  Speaker 3: back in. So then he's like, oh my god, I
• 38:14
  Speaker 3: don't know what to do, like I'm gonna pee my pants.
• 38:15
  Speaker 3: And I was like, listen, have you never been to
• 38:17
  Speaker 3: a festival before.
• 38:19
  Speaker 2: That's why you get two big water bottles with caps,
• 38:22
  Speaker 2: and you're a dude. You just put it up your leg.
• 38:26
  Speaker 2: You put it up the shorts the shorts leg, and
• 38:29
  Speaker 2: you panto the bottle.
• 38:31
  Speaker 3: You don't let anybody sea, and then you just casually
• 38:34
  Speaker 3: crashed it, crouched down and you put the lid on it,
• 38:36
  Speaker 3: and then you just stand it right by yourself and
• 38:38
  Speaker 3: make sure it's properly disposed of it when you're done.
• 38:41
  Speaker 3: So she goes, hey, hey, honey, honey, you could just
• 38:44
  Speaker 3: paint a bottle.
• 38:45
  Speaker 2: You can just paint a bottle. And then people were
• 38:47
  Speaker 2: like eh. I was like, you can't say it. She's like,
• 38:51
  Speaker 2: oh man, I just messed it up to time.
• 38:53
  Speaker 1: It's like, yes, you did.
• 38:55
  Speaker 2: You don't say that.
• 38:57
  Speaker 3: And then he's like, so then he p's in the
• 38:58
  Speaker 3: bottle because I can really I can see. I'm right
• 39:01
  Speaker 3: next to him, and he's like the bottle is filling up.
• 39:03
  Speaker 3: He's filling up, and.
• 39:04
  Speaker 2: I'm not done, and I'm not done. And so then
• 39:07
  Speaker 2: and then she's like, give me another one, give me
• 39:08
  Speaker 2: another one.
• 39:09
  Speaker 3: So she hands him another one and then he puts
• 39:11
  Speaker 3: it down. And then she had her water bottle next
• 39:14
  Speaker 3: to her and she picked it up and she took
• 39:17
  Speaker 3: a drink out of it.
• 39:18
  Speaker 2: She thought it was hers, and he was like, oh.
• 39:20
  Speaker 3: My god, Babby, No, no, no, I just want to
• 39:23
  Speaker 3: paint him.
• 39:24
  Speaker 2: No, that's my poorly done branch.
• 39:28
  Speaker 3: She took a drink at this pee and then you
• 39:32
  Speaker 3: could see her face go white, and she just tried
• 39:34
  Speaker 3: to like not acknowledge it and put it down. And
• 39:37
  Speaker 3: I just acted like I didn't see it, so wouldn't
• 39:39
  Speaker 3: embarrass her.
• 39:40
  Speaker 1: Oh man, that's a good story, though, I mean, there
• 39:43
  Speaker 1: you go.
• 39:43
  Speaker 2: That's a good story embarrassment. I don't know.
• 39:47
  Speaker 3: The last human bias I want to discuss is the
• 39:49
  Speaker 3: better than average effects.
• 39:50
  Speaker 1: Oh okay, another one.
• 39:52
  Speaker 3: Yes, everybody believes they're better than average on everything.
• 39:55
  Speaker 2: You good driver?
• 39:56
  Speaker 1: Yeah?
• 39:56
  Speaker 2: Better, I'm pretty much every better than most. Are you attractive?
• 40:00
  Speaker 3: Well, I mean maybe not the most attractive person, but
• 40:03
  Speaker 3: better than most.
• 40:04
  Speaker 2: Are you funny? Maybe? I'm not a comedian, but I'm
• 40:06
  Speaker 2: better than most. I'm funnier the most.
• 40:09
  Speaker 1: I find this so interesting because it's like, you know,
• 40:13
  Speaker 1: I've always thought that collectively we've had like a self
• 40:16
  Speaker 1: esteem issue, But based on what you're saying, no, people
• 40:19
  Speaker 1: really love themselves more than they realize.
• 40:22
  Speaker 3: Yeah, but it's layered over subconcious It's layered on top
• 40:26
  Speaker 3: of subconscious shame, so it's.
• 40:28
  Speaker 2: Kind of fake.
• 40:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's not real true.
• 40:30
  Speaker 3: So yeah, it's like the conscious mind just telling the
• 40:32
  Speaker 3: story in the subconscious mind being like, but it ain't true. Yeah,
• 40:36
  Speaker 3: and the subconscious always wins because that's what comes out
• 40:39
  Speaker 3: in our reactive behavior and our trauma responses, especially in intimacy.
• 40:45
  Speaker 1: So it's like this defensive moral of the.
• 40:47
  Speaker 3: Story is learn metacognition. I would love to help teach you.
• 40:51
  Speaker 3: The smartest people in the world have the skill, and
• 40:53
  Speaker 3: the most successful and happy people in the world have
• 40:55
  Speaker 3: this skill, and we have specific paradigms we use to
• 40:58
  Speaker 3: teach it, and we try to customize it to your
• 41:00
  Speaker 3: specific attachment and your nervous system. So if this was
• 41:04
  Speaker 3: interesting to you, I would love to help you because
• 41:07
  Speaker 3: it's just going to make you more resilient and more
• 41:08
  Speaker 3: successful because when your own ego and your own pride
• 41:12
  Speaker 3: rule the roost, a lot of times most people can
• 41:15
  Speaker 3: tell and it shows, and it just it messes up
• 41:19
  Speaker 3: your life and your relationships and doesn't bring you to
• 41:22
  Speaker 3: the point of success that you could really reach if
• 41:24
  Speaker 3: you were more objective in your life.
• 41:25
  Speaker 1: Totally agree, you know, And this makes me think of
• 41:28
  Speaker 1: something that one of our new subcontractors said about you
• 41:30
  Speaker 1: yesterday that I've never really thought about. That is so true.
• 41:34
  Speaker 1: I've always like described Sarah when I'm talking to people,
• 41:38
  Speaker 1: like I've always said, Sarah's this triple threat. You know,
• 41:40
  Speaker 1: she has the education, she has the credibility you know
• 41:43
  Speaker 1: with her education, and you know, but she has this
• 41:46
  Speaker 1: real life experience too. But above that's she's an excellent teacher.
• 41:51
  Speaker 1: And you know, I was talking to the subcontractor Esche
• 41:53
  Speaker 1: that you know who he is, and he was like,
• 41:56
  Speaker 1: more than that, though, Sarah is a fantastic facilitator and
• 42:00
  Speaker 1: that's different than being a good teacher. And I was like,
• 42:03
  Speaker 1: that is so true, I know. And I was like,
• 42:06
  Speaker 1: but it's so true because the way you facilitate your groups.
• 42:10
  Speaker 1: And I've been thinking about this just I was talking
• 42:12
  Speaker 1: to Amy about this actually the other day too. The
• 42:15
  Speaker 1: way you facilitate groups and being able to sit in
• 42:17
  Speaker 1: with you as many times as I have with group, Like,
• 42:20
  Speaker 1: not everybody can do what you do in terms of
• 42:25
  Speaker 1: the facilitation of it, and it's it's truly a gift.
• 42:28
  Speaker 1: It is truly a gift. Not obviously you have big
• 42:30
  Speaker 1: brain energy, but more than that, like the way that
• 42:32
  Speaker 1: you break it down and hold space for people is
• 42:35
  Speaker 1: what sets you apart. It truly is.
• 42:38
  Speaker 3: So.
• 42:38
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so guys, if this is you know, if that
• 42:42
  Speaker 1: I think she's the best, I might have a little
• 42:44
  Speaker 1: guyas there. Obviously I do, but I don't know if
• 42:49
  Speaker 1: I do, because okay I do. Yeah, you're but I've
• 42:54
  Speaker 1: watched your competitors over the years and like I don't
• 42:58
  Speaker 1: have I ever set in on like their core or
• 43:00
  Speaker 1: anything like that. No, but I've gotten enough feedback from
• 43:03
  Speaker 1: people in your community and stuff that maybe have done
• 43:06
  Speaker 1: other programs.
• 43:09
  Speaker 2: Not the same.
• 43:10
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it doesn't. It just doesn't compare. So, and like
• 43:13
  Speaker 1: you don't cuss at people, you don't like scream at people, like.
• 43:17
  Speaker 3: I don't force people to share beyond what they're comfortable with. Yeah,
• 43:22
  Speaker 3: you know, yeah, we don't allow allow any shame.
• 43:26
  Speaker 1: Yeah, the facilitation of your group is really special. And
• 43:30
  Speaker 1: I know we've said it multiple times before, but it's
• 43:34
  Speaker 1: because it's two simple concepts. It's not this massive overload
• 43:39
  Speaker 1: of all these concepts you have to get down.
• 43:40
  Speaker 3: Right because the brain wants simplicity and it wants repetition.
• 43:44
  Speaker 3: So really practicing the two capacity building tools, that's what
• 43:51
  Speaker 3: is going to change you long term. And then we
• 43:52
  Speaker 3: have a bunch of short term sort of scaffolding tools
• 43:56
  Speaker 3: for you to use in real life until you build
• 43:59
  Speaker 3: that capacity, so we can kind of hold you up
• 44:02
  Speaker 3: and give you a framework for what is a SECER
• 44:05
  Speaker 3: response and how can I how can I execute that
• 44:08
  Speaker 3: better even though I don't have the underlying capacity built yet.
• 44:11
  Speaker 1: It's life changing. I mean that's all I can say.
• 44:13
  Speaker 1: It's life It's been life changing for me, and I
• 44:16
  Speaker 1: know I've talked to enough people at this point where
• 44:17
  Speaker 1: it's been life changing for them too.
• 44:19
  Speaker 3: Speaking of life changing, this podcast is partially brought to
• 44:23
  Speaker 3: you by the Verified app. Oh yeah, Yes, the only
• 44:26
  Speaker 3: app that is going to make cheating impossible. It is
• 44:30
  Speaker 3: a relationship registry and it is a very dynamic app
• 44:34
  Speaker 3: where you can register your relationship and you can put
• 44:39
  Speaker 3: some details in there about your partner, and your partner
• 44:43
  Speaker 3: then is.
• 44:45
  Speaker 2: In the registry.
• 44:46
  Speaker 3: So if your partner decides to try to be disloyal
• 44:49
  Speaker 3: to you, someone else can go on the registry and
• 44:52
  Speaker 3: see if your partner is linked to anyone else. So
• 44:56
  Speaker 3: you can search by photo, you can search by name,
• 44:58
  Speaker 3: by email address, by phone number, and so it really
• 45:01
  Speaker 3: makes it hard for somebody to go out and be
• 45:03
  Speaker 3: a cheater. Nowadays with the technology that we have, it
• 45:06
  Speaker 3: is the Verified App. It is spelled v r a fied.
• 45:12
  Speaker 3: So download the Verified App if you're worried that you
• 45:14
  Speaker 3: could be dating somebody that might be trying to date
• 45:16
  Speaker 3: someone else.
• 45:17
  Speaker 1: That's what I was gonna say. I could see where
• 45:19
  Speaker 1: that would just be so beneficial, Like if you were
• 45:21
  Speaker 1: still in the dating landscape, like you meet somebody out
• 45:23
  Speaker 1: at a bar and you're.
• 45:24
  Speaker 3: Like, well, or if your partner has had indiscretions in
• 45:27
  Speaker 3: the past and you are having trouble trusting them, absolutely
• 45:30
  Speaker 3: hop on the Verified App and take advantage.
• 45:33
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and it's not like a got you situation.
• 45:36
  Speaker 3: It's not a gotcha situation. It allows people to message
• 45:40
  Speaker 3: you confidentially.
• 45:41
  Speaker 2: If your partner.
• 45:42
  Speaker 3: Has been, you know, out there flirting and they can
• 45:46
  Speaker 3: sort of say, oh, you know, I just randomly met them,
• 45:49
  Speaker 3: or they were trying to hook up with me or
• 45:51
  Speaker 3: you know it kind of right.
• 45:53
  Speaker 2: It doesn't broadcasting, It doesn't broadcast it.
• 45:55
  Speaker 3: And if your partner has been searched, your partner might
• 45:58
  Speaker 3: be searched, like my husband might be searched because of
• 46:01
  Speaker 3: my platform, right, and people want to know, oh, is
• 46:04
  Speaker 3: what let me find out about Doctor Sarah's husband. Yeah,
• 46:07
  Speaker 3: and then it'll tell you somebody was just searching out
• 46:09
  Speaker 3: of interest, or they were searching because your husband did something.
• 46:14
  Speaker 1: Yeah bad, that's really cool. Yeah so. And obviously, guys,
• 46:18
  Speaker 1: why you're surfing the world wide Web? Nobody says that
• 46:21
  Speaker 1: anymore except for me.
• 46:23
  Speaker 2: Uh.
• 46:23
  Speaker 1: Please go check out doctor Hensley at the loovedoc dot
• 46:25
  Speaker 1: com and just bear with us as we transition into
• 46:28
  Speaker 1: the rebrand refresh. This podcast, of course, is going to
• 46:33
  Speaker 1: be the Doctor Sarah Hensley Show. And listen, guys, thank
• 46:35
  Speaker 1: you all, Thank you to all of you who have
• 46:38
  Speaker 1: written in about our last episode. We got so much
• 46:41
  Speaker 1: feedback about our last episode. When we were like, we're
• 46:44
  Speaker 1: so tired, we want to give up. I had like
• 46:47
  Speaker 1: six different messages from people that were like, don't give up.
• 46:49
  Speaker 1: You guys are doing God's work. We love you guys
• 46:51
  Speaker 1: so much so I just appreciate that.
• 46:54
  Speaker 3: You have no Thank you to our loyal listeners and
• 46:56
  Speaker 3: please tell your friends share. If there's an episode that
• 46:59
  Speaker 3: you find very interesting, share it with everybody you know.
• 47:02
  Speaker 3: That helps us out a lot.
• 47:03
  Speaker 1: Yes, absolutely so, thank you guys. Continue to tune in, like, follow,
• 47:07
  Speaker 1: leave us a comment, reach out to us. We love
• 47:09
  Speaker 1: hearing from you all, and until next time, peace, love
• 47:11
  Speaker 1: and perspective