Latest / eCommerce Podcast / How WhatsApp Commerce Delivers 20% Cart Recovery Rates | Abhishek Chandra

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How WhatsApp Commerce Delivers 20% Cart Recovery Rates | Abhishek Chandra · eCommerce Podcast

0:04
Well, hello and welcome to the e-Commerce podcast.
0:07
My name is Matt Edmundson and it's great to be with you on what can only
0:13
be described as a sunny day here in the UK, uh, at the time of recording.
0:16
So an unusual occurrence to be sure.
0:18
Now, I have been, uh, an e-commerce since 2002, and these days I get
0:24
to partner with e-commerce brands to help them grow, scale and exit.
0:28
And if you'd like to know more about how that.
0:30
Work, uh, just on whether we could work together.
0:32
Just head over to the website, ecommerce-podcast.net.
0:36
You'll also find on that website all of our past episodes with the show notes and
0:42
all of that sort of good stuff, as well as a little link, a little link that allows
0:46
you to sign up to the eCommerce newsletter and make sure you do that as well.
0:53
Uh, and you'll get some great tips and tricks.
0:55
Um, I've been saying for the last few weeks actually,
0:57
we're doing a big overhaul.
0:58
Uh, on the newsletter and we are, we're almost where we want to be with it.
1:02
So, uh, yes, it's taken a long time.
1:04
Yes.
1:04
Thank you for bearing with us.
1:06
And yes, it is coming out very, very soon.
1:09
I'll let you know more on the podcast.
1:11
In fact, by the time you've heard this, it's probably gonna be working hunky dory.
1:15
Uh, anyway, all of that said ecommerce-podcast.net.
1:18
So let's talk about today's guest, Abhishek Chandra from GoKwik.
1:24
Now let's, we're gonna talk about GoKwik.
1:25
We're gonna talk about.
1:27
What these guys are doing and why?
1:30
Why they've decided actually.
1:33
The UK market, the US market, we all need a little bit of help.
1:36
We can all learn something from the e-commerce market in India, and I'm
1:40
inclined to agree, uh, having seen their products and a little bit of a demo.
1:44
So I'm curious to find out what's going on in India, what we can learn as e-commerce
1:49
entrepreneurs here in the uk because, uh, Abhishek, it's fair to say India
1:53
is a fairly sizable e-commerce market.
1:56
It's not insignificant.
1:57
Is it really?
1:58
No, no, no, it's, it's more than one $50 billion.
2:02
Dollars or already, and it is growing at the CAGR of 20%.
2:06
So in the next five years, it'll cross to more than two 50 billion.
2:10
That's incredible, isn't it?
2:12
I was, I, I posted on LinkedIn, and by the way, dear listener, if you are, if
2:15
you're not following me on LinkedIn, why not come connect with me on LinkedIn?
2:18
Anyway, that aside, um, I posted on LinkedIn yesterday, um, uh,
2:24
a stat which I saw that the.
2:26
Where the e-commerce market is predicted to go by 2032.
2:30
And it's a massive number.
2:32
Ab I mean, it's, it is an insane, you kind of go, woo-hoo.
2:34
You know, it's, it's a massive number and I get to have share of that, which
2:37
is wonderful, but actually when you analyze it, it's only 8% growth and you
2:42
kind of go, well, isn't that interesting?
2:44
And obviously it's focused very much on.
2:47
Um, the uk, the u, what I would call the big five.
2:49
You know, the uk, the us, Canada, Australia, New Zealand.
2:52
What it isn't really accounting for are emerging markets.
2:56
And, um, Tony Con, who's been on the show from Brave Agency, he posted on that.
3:01
He said, it's really, 'cause I'm like, does that mean we'd
3:03
have to go and steal all of the.
3:05
All of the traffic from our competitors, do we have to get
3:07
a little bit more competitive?
3:08
And he's like, actually I think it means that we need to think about
3:11
these markets, these international markets and emerging markets.
3:13
And I think of places like India, South Africa, um, South Africa, sorry,
3:18
south America, um, Africa itself, you know, these sort of emerging, um,
3:23
e-com markets, which are actually, but they're not really emerging anymore.
3:26
They're sort of fully there, aren't they?
3:27
Just absolutely killing it.
3:30
Are you quite buoyant about the, the e-commerce market in, in India?
3:35
Do you think it's gonna sort of stay around?
3:37
Do you think it's, it's all doing pretty well?
3:40
Yeah, absolutely.
3:41
Uh, see, uh, the e-commerce boom started a little late in India.
3:45
like like the western markets like US and uk, but the speed at which it is growing,
3:51
it's, it's tremendous because India was little lagging in terms of, let's say the
3:57
internet penetration and also the internet revolution in India came back around,
4:03
uh, maybe 10, 12 years back where when a billion Indians start suddenly start
4:09
got, got internet at a very low price.
4:12
So people in very remote parts of India, uh, they got access to internet.
4:17
So, so they say, so say that.
4:20
Firstly, it started with very basic things like browsing or YouTube and all.
4:24
Then people started getting started understanding that there are opportunities
4:27
available even if they don't have access to resources, but they can, they can,
4:33
uh, with, with internet in their hands.
4:34
They, they started doing different things.
4:37
In fact, in last five, six years, I have seen good.
4:41
Di uh, di uh, direct to consumer brands emerging from very small parts of India
4:46
and selling very niche products, which, which let's say cater to that region,
4:51
or let's say just India as a market.
4:53
Alright, so, uh, though it's, it came a little late, but the way is
4:58
growing, uh, the growth is tremendous.
5:01
In fact, during our discussion, I, I would love to deep dive there.
5:05
Yeah, no, I, I'm, I'm intrigued by it because we had a, a, a, a, a
5:08
guest on the show a few weeks ago and we were talking about China.
5:12
And China is, does e-commerce quite differently to how we do e-commerce in
5:17
the uk and it fascinated me and I think about, um, places like India where.
5:23
Yes, they were a little bit later getting into the internet, but by
5:27
the, when you guys started, the technology had evolved so much.
5:31
You didn't have all that early baggage that we had in the uk.
5:34
You could innovate with a billion people pretty much almost
5:37
instantly and and rethink things just like they've done in China.
5:41
And I think I'm intrigued by it because you can, you've built like
5:48
GoKwik and these sort of platforms.
5:51
Without that baggage, just based on, on what you can do with the technology now,
5:56
which has enabled you to think outside the box to think about things differently,
6:00
and I, I am fascinated by that.
6:02
And I, I'd, I'd love to dig into sort of some of the things
6:05
that you guys have learned.
6:07
I mean, I, you know, a 10, 12-year-old market is not exactly.
6:11
Brand new.
6:12
Is it, I mean, I suppose in digital terms it's, it's almost like dinosaur, but,
6:16
but you, you go, quick's been around since what, 2020 and you've got this
6:21
fast growing e-com market in India.
6:25
What, what are some of the things that you guys have learned that
6:28
maybe we haven't yet learned in the uk or maybe that would help us to
6:34
understand sort of a bit more fully.
6:37
Absolutely.
6:38
So I would like to take you a little back, uh, before even we, we, we,
6:42
we thought of starting GoKwik.
6:44
So 12, 13 years back, um, we, we, we saw in India, uh, that.
6:51
FinTech.
6:52
See, banks always had these legacy systems.
6:54
The payments used to be slow.
6:57
Online payments were, uh, were not that, uh, were not that what you can say.
7:03
Uh, the success rates were low.
7:05
And also during my university days, I, I was, I was doing my engineering.
7:11
12, 13 years back.
7:12
And what I thought was in India, it needs a FinTech revolution that
7:17
we need to have indigenous products which cater to the Indian market.
7:22
So during that time, I, I met a person who, uh, who just came back from the
7:27
US and he had an idea that why don't we have a product like a PayPal in India?
7:32
Why don't we build it?
7:34
Alright, so, which sound.
7:36
During 12, 13, back years back, it sounded difficult, but at least we
7:41
had the engineering talent in India.
7:42
So we started working on that.
7:44
And uh, just to ensure that these e-commerce companies doesn't face
7:49
challenges like payments drops and all, which, because most of
7:52
the payment solutions were, uh.
7:55
Um, American companies who, who have little offices in India and,
7:59
and they were not that focused.
8:00
India was just a large market for them.
8:02
So they, so they used to have these solutions there.
8:05
So we started building this company.
8:07
The company was called Moby Quick, and we were amongst the first to
8:10
build a digital wallet in India and in just five, six years, uh.
8:17
Just like us, there was another company called pt, and we started building this
8:21
wallet, which can empower, let's say a few million Indians who can keep money
8:25
in their wallet, spend it wherever they want, whether it's a small store to a
8:30
large, uh, retailer, like an Amazon.
8:32
So we started building that and in six years, if we reach the point where PayPal
8:37
had to live India, because we became,
8:40
Fantastic.
8:41
I mean, that's well done.
8:42
yeah.
8:43
done.
8:43
Yeah.
8:44
So, uh, and both, now, both these companies, both Mobi Quick and Paton,
8:48
which were, uh, homegrown companies.
8:51
Now these are public listed multi-billion dollar
8:54
Mm-hmm.
8:55
So, which gave us enough confidence that yes, we can, we can build a
9:00
world-class product because most of the good talent from India used
9:05
to go to us, to Silicon Valley
9:07
to build large organization.
9:09
But because we didn't have those infra in India, so.
9:12
People were not staying back.
9:14
But now I can proudly say that, uh, when we were building GoKwik, we
9:19
had no problem getting the great greatest of the greatest talent.
9:23
Uh,
9:23
GoKwik.
9:24
When we were starting our, the main core focus was data science.
9:27
So we wanted data science code, data scientists, and to our surprise,
9:32
many people from Silicon Valley working in companies like Amazon,
9:36
us, um, LinkedIn, Facebook, uh, uh.
9:41
Uh, Microsoft, they joined us.
9:42
They came back to India and it, and they joined GoKwik in the, in the early days.
9:47
So, uh, so I have seen that shift in the last 10 years that how
9:52
things are changing in India.
9:53
And, uh, and also with GoKwik, we, uh.
9:57
The only problem statement why we started, uh, GoKwik was that even 10, 12 years
10:02
back, these small direct to consumer brands used to, uh, used to start on
10:07
Shopify because it is easier for anyone to build a website, but every four or five
10:11
years, what was happening was, uh, that larger marketplaces like Amazon or let's
10:17
say Flipkart in India, they used to just.
10:20
Come and acquire them, or let's say build a competing product in their
10:24
marketplace just to kill that business.
10:25
Small business.
10:26
Alright, so suddenly, seven, eight years back, we saw that all the small direct
10:32
to consumer brand wrapped up because they were not able to compete with
10:36
the likes of Amazon or the other large marketplaces, which, which is a very
10:41
bad thing because if they, if they keep selling their products on, on an Amazon.
10:45
They have to keep shelling out 30%, 40% of their margins, which, which
10:49
in long run is non-sustainable.
10:52
And the only reason why, uh, they, they were failing was because Amazon
10:57
or any other large marketplace, these are tech companies who sells product.
11:02
That is why you have the best in class customer experience on the
11:06
website from, from just landing on the website to actual transacting.
11:10
So the journey is very seamless there, which a regular Shopify
11:14
website can't have because these are regular people who knows a certain
11:18
product which they can sell, procure.
11:20
Manufacture and sell, but they don't know how to create the world, world
11:24
class experience on their website.
11:25
So we thought of starting a company, uh, which can create multiple products,
11:30
which can be fitted to different parts of an e-commerce journey so
11:34
that a customer can get an Amazon kind of experience on non-Amazon
11:38
world, which, which was the DTC world.
11:41
And, uh, in just four or five years now, we power more than 12,000 stores globally.
11:47
Where we started fixing various challenges.
11:50
The first challenge, which we fixed was, uh, a, a fast checkout on Shopify because
11:55
we relied on Shopify, the pa, the the pa. The checkout page was very long.
12:00
Customers used to so much time in filling their details, and they used to drop off.
12:04
Most of the customers were dropping off, so we created a one click fast
12:09
checkout, which reduced that journey from 20 seconds to just three seconds.
12:14
So.
12:15
So the conversion rate shot up and within few months that
12:19
product became very popular.
12:21
So we, we started getting so many inbound queries that we want to
12:24
implement it, we want to implement it.
12:26
So we had to quit.
12:27
was this a, sorry, was this a plugin for a Shopify site?
12:30
So, so do in the early days it was, it was a private app on Shopify because
12:35
Shopify was not allowing it to publish.
12:37
Alright.
12:38
So, so we had to integrate, um, on each and every individual website
12:42
on, we have to hire a big team of people to just integrate it.
12:47
And Shopify was not very happy in the initial days, but, uh, two
12:52
years back what happened was, uh.
12:54
Uh, shop Shopify was losing their enterprise brands to other platforms
12:59
like, uh, Salesforce Commerce Cloud and let's say Magento.
13:02
Because once the companies were becoming too big, they
13:05
were facing these challenges.
13:06
And so, so the larger platforms were getting them.
13:10
So we, we talked to, uh, Shopify, we told them.
13:13
If we, if you keep this checkout, um, if we work closely, we'll ensure that the
13:18
larger brands don't move out of Shopify,
13:20
and we proved that.
13:21
So eventually, uh, Shopify released their global APIs just to accommodate us.
13:26
So we were the first checkout, which was, uh, which, uh, which
13:30
was recognized by Shopify.
13:32
And now we are a public app.
13:34
Uh, we, we launched the public app two years back on, on Shopify app.
13:38
So this is, so the GoKwik checkout, it's called Quick Checkout Now.
13:42
It is the largest checkout globally,
13:44
and, and it's in, in just four years.
13:47
So, so.
13:48
That's quite impressive.
13:49
And, and what, I mean, I, I'm obviously very familiar with the, the, the
13:52
Shopify checkout and I'm, I'm, I'm familiar with your products as well now.
13:56
Um, but I'm kind of curious
13:59
who decided, um, I suppose who looked at it and went, oh, we can, we can
14:04
just do that so much better here.
14:05
Let's just do that and, um, and let's have a go and see what happens.
14:09
Um, I love that mindset.
14:11
Uh, whose, whose idea was it?
14:14
So I think the initial two, three people, um, so we came from different backgrounds.
14:19
So one of my co-founder, uh.
14:22
Uh, was, uh, was uh, in a management team of A DTC brand.
14:26
I came from a FinTech background.
14:28
One of our co-founder was what?
14:30
A data was a data scientist.
14:32
So when, when we, uh, when we used to, uh, chat in the initial days,
14:36
we used to discuss different problem statements because we came from
14:39
all different backgrounds from.
14:41
From FinTech to to DT, C, to to standard data science and Technology.
14:46
Alright, so we thought that what, what is the first problem
14:49
statement that we can solve?
14:51
And checkout was one thing which was broken.
14:53
So we thought of fixing it.
14:55
And also see checkouts are very, uh, localized also depending on the regions.
15:00
So for example, in India, the most preferred option still to pay on any
15:04
e-commerce website is cash on delivery.
15:07
Oh wow.
15:08
Really?
15:09
So you won't believe still 50% of orders happens via cash on
15:13
Oh my goodness.
15:14
Okay.
15:15
I, I, I, I dunno why I'm surprised.
15:17
I suppose if I'd have thought about it, it would, it may make sense.
15:19
But of course in the uk I, I, I can't remember the last time
15:22
anything was COD maybe 20 years ago.
15:24
I don't, I
15:25
genuinely don't know.
15:26
Absolutely.
15:27
So, so that is why whenever a global company try to enter the market,
15:30
they have the, their standard SOPs and they try to replicate
15:34
that, but it, it doesn't work like
15:35
doesn't work.
15:36
Yeah, yeah.
15:36
It doesn't work like that.
15:38
So, so that is why, uh, local, you have to localize the product.
15:42
So we localize the product so that cash on delivery can work
15:45
in a much more proper way.
15:47
There are no frauds happening on cash, on delivery.
15:49
There was a problem of R-T-O-R-T-O is written to origin because see, people
15:53
have nothing to lose on cash, on delivery.
15:55
So they used to take delivery in a very casual way that when a delivery guy comes,
16:00
they used to say, no, I'm not at home.
16:01
Take it away.
16:03
I take it back because they knew the brand will re attempt the delivery,
16:05
but they didn't know that the brand has to pay for two and fro.
16:09
Uh, so, uh, so we, we built data science layer, which we, which used to
16:13
predict that this customer will do RTO.
16:15
So before even he's placing the order.
16:18
So, um, so during that journey we, we used to trigger many things that a partial.
16:23
Uh, uh, partial, uh, uh, prepaid payment, or we implemented many things
16:27
which reduce COD in India because it was, was because e-commerce brands were
16:31
losing billions of dollars in RTO fraud.
16:34
So we built a good data science layer to, to remove those frauds and just to ensure
16:39
that because people love to pay via COD, so they, they can continue to pay via COT.
16:43
But slowly and stately, we also moved in that direction
16:46
where we can reduce EOD also.
16:49
We can, we encourage people to use, uh, prepaid more so our first.
16:55
Success as a company came from that checkout, and still the
16:59
checkout is our biggest problem.
17:01
Then after two years, we, we started working on different problem statements.
17:05
Uh, another problem statement was that emails and SMSs were
17:09
not giving results to, to brands.
17:11
When people were communicating to their customers on email and SMSs, they
17:15
were not opening the email and sms.
17:17
So, and because most of the people are on WhatsApp, so we
17:21
thought, why don't we create a WhatsApp commerce solution, which.
17:25
Where brands can market their product, they can do abandoned card emails there,
17:30
they can do cross-sell upsells on, on, on, on, um, on, on, on, on WhatsApp.
17:36
So we started working very closely with Meta because during that time, meta
17:40
didn't start to monetize, uh, WhatsApp.
17:43
So we, we, we talked to them and we, we said, see, you can't charge the
17:47
customers directly, but why don't we.
17:49
Create a B2B solution around it.
17:51
Alright, so we were amongst the first people to build a
17:54
a WhatsApp commerce solution.
17:56
And again, because we had the distribution, people trusted us with
17:59
our solu, uh, with our offerings.
18:02
So within no time even on that product, that product is what,
18:05
two and a half, three years old and more than 5,000 brands use it.
18:09
Uh, uh, use it, uh, to communicate with their, with their customers tailgate.
18:15
We, we, we never work with a large marketplace.
18:18
Our thesis are still there, that we are there to serve the D two
18:23
C ecosystem, though we get calls from all large food delivery apps.
18:27
All right, we are all large marketplaces because see, these, these solutions are
18:31
replicable everywhere, but we say no, we are there to, so that these small
18:36
businesses can survive and thrive.
18:38
Yeah.
18:39
Their, their, uh, because see, with these omnichannel experiences, now people who
18:44
used to run retail stores and all, now they have digital footprint where they
18:48
launch their own website, all right?
18:50
So at least they can, they can manage it in a much efficient way that
18:54
whether the customer is a walk-in customer or they use their website,
18:58
at least these product of ours, they stitch the journey together so that.
19:03
They can, they can have, uh, they, they can run their
19:05
business much more efficiently.
19:07
We help them improve their bottom line in a sense, because
19:10
bottom line is very important.
19:12
Everyone has a limited marketing budget to spend.
19:15
So
19:16
Yeah,
19:16
absolutely.
19:17
Well, it sounds like, I mean, fascinated and I, I'm you.
19:26
I suppose as I'm listening to you talk, I'm thinking of a, you've done
19:29
what every entrepreneur has done in the past however many thousand years.
19:33
You've seen a problem, you've solved the problem, and people are willing
19:35
to pay you money because you've solved their problem and you've done it in
19:38
a way that's, that is replicable.
19:41
Um, and I.
19:44
I love the fact you kicked PayPal out India.
19:47
That's just brilliant.
19:48
Um, I, I, I, so where, where's it?
19:50
I mean, you are, I mean, it's fair to say, um, you are actually in London right now.
19:55
Um, just down the road.
19:56
Well, I say just down the road, three hours down the road, but,
19:58
you know, just down the road.
19:59
Cool.
19:59
Um, GoKwiker.
20:02
Obviously you are, you are.
20:05
Thinking a about global expansion.
20:07
You are in the uk, you have UK customers.
20:09
You've told me earlier that you've, uh, got 4,000 US customers.
20:13
You've acquired a brand over there, so you're going into the states.
20:16
So you're now xb, you know, why settle in India?
20:18
Just, you know, go and conquer the world.
20:20
It's brilliant.
20:20
Love it.
20:20
It's, um, it's the way it should be.
20:24
Um.
20:26
How, how, how are, I mean, you've got these different products,
20:30
um, but is there more to GoKwik than just the checkout process?
20:35
Um, or is it a case of we're gonna go take the checkout to these international
20:41
markets and see what happens?
20:42
'cause we think we can help you guys so much more.
20:46
So, um, in fact we, uh, we didn't have any plan to, uh, to come into the u
20:51
uh, to into any international market because when we were growing, see India,
20:56
uh, in the last four, five years, see, India is a big enough market for us.
21:00
I was gonna say, there's a lot,
21:01
Yeah.
21:02
And.
21:02
a billion people.
21:03
Why?
21:03
Why would you not, you know?
21:04
Yeah, so it was growing very fast.
21:06
All our, so during our journey, uh, we were backed by all large
21:10
global VCs like Sequoia, capital RTP, global Think Investment.
21:14
So all large global VCs invested in us.
21:17
So we were very well capitalized and we wanted to.
21:21
Serve the Indian market and we can come, uh, come.
21:24
Currently also, we believe in the Indian market and most of our
21:27
efforts goes into building different products to cater to Indian market.
21:32
But 10 minute, 10 months back said, um, uh, one interesting
21:35
thing happened with us that, um.
21:37
Uh, be because we already had two products, which, which were
21:41
catering to different problem statements in e-commerce journey.
21:44
We wanted to build a product which solves the returns and exchange part
21:49
of e-commerce or like that, how the, we wanted to, uh, have a company there.
21:54
So we came across this company, return Prime.
21:56
Uh, they were the third largest returns app on Shopify App Store.
22:00
They, they were doing tremendously well.
22:02
Um, um, in.
22:04
In fact in globally, because they were the third largest app.
22:07
So we thought that it, it's a very good fit, um, in our entire Goku ecosystem.
22:12
So we acquired that company.
22:14
So after the acquisition, we, we realized that this company, most of
22:19
their, most of their brands either were in US or in UK or in Europe.
22:24
So we thought, why don't we, uh, why don't we double down?
22:29
At least in these markets where we already have certain presence.
22:32
Alright, so 10 months back, I, but after the us, uh, UK was the biggest market.
22:37
So I just came here just to experiment that if, let's say, if I start
22:42
staying here long, if I start going to these e-commerce events, can,
22:46
can I, can I make our presence much more, uh, stronger in this market?
22:51
Uh, so in my initial days I used to meet many agencies, many brand
22:55
founders, and during my conversation up.
22:58
Uh, so once, let's say after a meeting, we used to connect on phone and most
23:02
of them used to message me on WhatsApp.
23:05
Alright?
23:06
So one day I asked few agencies, Hey, everyone is chatting to their friends
23:11
and family in UK on WhatsApp, but I don't see any businesses, uh uh, basically
23:17
messaging their customers on WhatsApp.
23:19
So they said, yeah, we don't do that.
23:22
So.
23:23
On the other hand, I told them, see, in Asian market, 80% of all
23:27
communication happens on WhatsApp.
23:29
And the, the, the and email and SMS have now just reduced to 20% already.
23:35
But why?
23:36
Because, see, most of the customers are on WhatsApp.
23:39
Email is something which was very prominent 10 years back.
23:42
But we have to understand that people like you, me, we are, we are business folks,
23:47
so we have to keep checking our emails.
23:48
Every time we, we have it on mobile, but there are many, many customers who
23:52
are regular people who, who maybe check their emails once in once in a day or
23:57
once in two days or once in a week, so many time even when their favorite
24:02
brands reach them, the communication.
24:04
Reaches to them, or let's say they read that communication very late
24:08
when maybe that offer is over, or let's say it's not relevant.
24:12
So I thought that it's a clear problem statement that, or let's say
24:16
there's a clear wide market, which is available in the, in UK where we
24:21
can already, uh, try our product we engage, which was WhatsApp and um.
24:27
So, uh, so I, uh, so in fact, and in fact I, I, I started sharing some numbers
24:31
with people last year just on WhatsApp.
24:34
We sent 2 billion messages on WhatsApp for our D two C, for our D two C partners.
24:39
Okay.
24:40
And, and which resulted around 2 billion pounds worth of additional sales.
24:44
So
24:45
I started speaking to brands and agency here, so they, they got very excited.
24:50
So I thought, let's, it's a, it's a, it's an open market and it's a,
24:55
it's a problem that, that can, that's needs to be solved because see, Matt,
24:59
the, the thing is in every market you go to, uh, the cost of acquisition.
25:04
The customer
25:05
Oh, it's crazy.
25:06
going off the roof, on off the roof, and the robots are going down.
25:09
Alright?
25:10
So as a brand, you have limited budget.
25:13
You can't keep acquiring customers, so you have to ensure that you are getting
25:18
more and more repeat customers and what we have seen in other geographies.
25:23
WhatsApp plays an amazing role in that.
25:25
Firstly, because WhatsApp has a 90% plus open rate in the first
25:29
five minutes, which means when the customer is actually active.
25:33
Alright, so when you trigger a message to a customer, it can be a, it can be any
25:37
message, it can be a promotional message, it can be um, it can be an abandoned card
25:42
message, it can be an upsell message.
25:45
You know, the chances of customer reading that message is very high.
25:48
Alright, so, so, uh, so we started implementing it in the u in the UK
25:54
market, eight, nine months back.
25:56
And in just eight months now, more than a hundred brands are using our
26:01
product for WhatsApp and the kind of numbers they are seeing now.
26:06
Now interestingly, they have started seeing a 15 to 20 XROI.
26:09
So now this product is.
26:11
Growing so far in the UK market that the product for which I came to promote, which
26:16
was written Prime, I stopped doing that.
26:18
I said, anyway, on Shopify app store, lemme focus on creating awareness of
26:24
WhatsApp in the, in the UK market.
26:27
So sometime funnily, I talk to the meta people, uh, uh, the meta people
26:32
in India, that I'm doing what you are supposed to do in, in that.
26:36
I I'm creating awareness about your product, but with, with, with companies
26:41
like Meta, uh, they, their main focus is to, uh, go into market where,
26:47
where the population is too big.
26:48
So that is why the two focused market for them is India and Brazil.
26:52
Hmm.
26:53
Yeah.
26:53
Yeah,
26:53
that's really interesting, really interesting.
26:56
I, I'm, and, and this whole thing, I suppose I, I'm inclined to agree
27:00
with you that, you know, in the UK.
27:04
We adopted email pretty quick in the early days of e-comm,
27:07
because that's what we had.
27:08
And I think we've kind of, and e and don't get me wrong, email is still
27:11
amazing for our company and, um, I, I think it's still foundational.
27:17
And then we tried to introduce SMS and then of course it got complicated
27:20
with the European Union and, and, and all the, sort of the weird
27:23
rules that we started to in inject.
27:25
And with SMS, you could only send text for a little while and then mobile apps
27:30
came along and we could do notifications.
27:32
And then you've got things like WhatsApp and Telegram, which I think is also an
27:36
interesting platform, uh, which people aren't really talking about as much at
27:40
the moment, but I think maybe they will be, uh, maybe you've got some thoughts
27:43
on this, but the fact that I can send images, links, video with WhatsApp.
27:49
Everybody has WhatsApp on their phone, whether you are Android or Apple.
27:53
It just.
27:54
It's a universal communication system and I'm, I'm intrigued.
28:00
Maybe you've, maybe you've thought this through, maybe you've got an answer as
28:04
to why perhaps we've been quite slow to.
28:10
Um, take up WhatsApp.
28:11
Is it because of legislation?
28:13
Is it because we just don't know we can use it?
28:15
And so it's a lack of education.
28:18
Um, is it because we're just too set in our ways where email is concerned?
28:21
I'm, I'm curious as to, to why you think it is.
28:25
So to be very honest, it, it is of no no one's fault.
28:29
Um, it's only when, when the company which owns the product,
28:32
they have to promote it in a market.
28:34
Meta never promoted it.
28:36
No one in the UK knew that this, these are things which are possible even possible.
28:41
Hmm.
28:42
Then if, if, if the, if the branch not even know that these are something
28:46
which is possible on WhatsApp, why will anyone try even try it?
28:51
Alright.
28:51
Because, and still it's a new product in the Asian market also.
28:55
It, it's three, 4-year-old or like WhatsApp for business.
28:58
It's called WhatsApp for Business.
28:59
Um, so, uh, so, uh, it's, it's, it's new there, but, uh, but yeah, but
29:05
as I was telling earlier, the focus of meta was not in this geography.
29:10
So that is why, uh, it didn't pick up here.
29:13
So, uh, so that is why when we came here, the kind of response we started getting
29:18
from both agencies and, uh, brands were, were, were very encouraging, alright?
29:23
Because they, they were, firstly, it's a, uh, they, they don't have to stop.
29:28
So when we came here, we never asked people to stop sending emails or sms.
29:33
We said, why don't you try it?
29:34
If you, if you get good results, then you can always keep adding to it.
29:40
And it's a, and it's a new market, so you can't just bombard
29:43
people with WhatsApp message.
29:45
We have to ensure that we take, uh, um, enough approvals, be basically enough
29:50
consents before sending the messages,
29:52
or like the messages should be like where, um, every customer should an option to
29:56
stop the message whenever they want.
29:58
So, so, so we have to design it in such a way, firstly, when it is GDPR
30:03
compliant also, and it, it doesn't feel very intrusive for, for a customer.
30:09
So that is why, uh, when we, when we start working with a brand, also, we never ask
30:13
them to do marketing in the first 30 days.
30:16
So we implement very basic use cases like abandoned card recoveries and
30:20
all, and abandoned card recovery.
30:21
You, you'll be very surprised on WhatsApp, you can, so the, the
30:26
abandoned card recovery is close to 20%.
30:30
So, uh, which, which is never heard of, which means the same marketing
30:34
budget with same number of customers coming to your platform, you have
30:38
a 20% higher revenue realization.
30:41
So, which, which for adds so much credibility in the eyes of the
30:45
brands that now just by using WhatsApp as a channel, they are
30:49
able to save 20% of their revenue.
30:51
Hmm.
30:52
So then, then once the audience is, audience is warmed up, then slowly and
30:56
suddenly you push other use cases also.
30:58
But at least the revenue leakages firstly needs to be fixed, which which can be
31:03
easily done by via channels like WhatsApp.
31:07
And one more very inter uh, important thing which I want to
31:10
highlight here, is that WhatsApp is conversational commerce, which means.
31:15
Email and SMS, even if you send any, any kind of communication to the
31:19
customer, what best a customer can do is click on a link and land on a page.
31:24
On the other hand, WhatsApp looks like a conversation.
31:28
So for example, even if you send, uh, let's say if, if I launched
31:31
this t-shirt I sent to the customer, hey, we have launched
31:34
these new set of t-shirts, alright?
31:36
Uh, so it, it'll show a very beautiful, uh, image.
31:39
Then there will be text with all emojis and all, but then
31:43
there will be CT of buttons.
31:45
Those CTF buttons are very interesting.
31:47
These CT F buttons can be, do you have more sizes?
31:50
Once you click there automatically, more sizes will be shown there.
31:53
Right.
31:54
Yep.
31:54
Right, and or what goes well with it.
31:57
So automatically it'll pull a trouser, which goes well with this
32:00
t-shirt trouser or an necessary.
32:02
So all these conversation keep happening in the same WhatsApp
32:05
window, and these flows are automated.
32:08
And once, let's say customer makes up their mind to actually buy the
32:11
product, they just click on shop now button and it'll directly take the
32:16
customer to add to cart and not to sum again to a product discovery.
32:19
yeah.
32:19
Yeah.
32:20
So this conversational commerce is only limited to WhatsApp right now.
32:26
Alright, so which is, which is not even possible on an email or SMS.
32:30
So that is why, uh, once you start, once brands starts using it, they'll
32:35
see a drastic difference in, in how they engage with their customers.
32:39
In fact, I have some, some, um, some funny anecdotes and all also.
32:43
So, uh, uh, few, few of the beauty brands that work in the UK market with us.
32:48
So let's say if you, if you order a mascara.
32:50
Alright, so you get um, uh, order, you get a order confirmation message on
32:55
WhatsApp that's saying, Hey, thanks for placing the order and with a video.
32:59
This is how you apply this mascara as a post purchase
33:03
Yeah.
33:04
And, and see for a beauty brand, it can be how to apply this.
33:07
There are many products which needs installation also.
33:10
So on WhatsApp on the same message you get, this is how you install it.
33:14
We work with a, with a, with a toy, toy brand or like, and
33:18
every toy needs an installation.
33:19
So when, when, when the parents used to get these videos on how to install this.
33:24
Uh, install this, uh, toy.
33:27
So they used to show the video to the, to the, to the child.
33:30
And the, and the children were very fascinated to build it on their own
33:33
because they had a video to refer to.
33:35
Right?
33:36
So, so these are things which, which keeps, uh, the customers very close
33:40
to a brand because why we, why we actually, uh, uh, because, see, you
33:45
can also buy the same product from an Amazon, but why people stick with a
33:49
particular DTC brand is when they, when they connect to the story of the brand.
33:56
Yeah, that's really interesting, isn't it?
33:59
My mind is racing Abhishek with, with all kinds of possibilities, um, around this.
34:04
Like, I'm, I I'm wondering whether, for example, with subscription commerce.
34:10
Whether, um, I send a WhatsApp message saying, your subscription's due to go out.
34:17
Um, if you wanna snooze your subscription, just click here on WhatsApp and it
34:22
will, and it'll just snooze it for you.
34:23
Or, um, this is your order that's going out.
34:27
You, if you, you've got an hour, if you want to add to the order, let me
34:30
know and I can all, you know, I can put it in and, and it will go through
34:33
and it, do you know what I mean?
34:34
It'll do all the episode type things.
34:36
I I am a big fan of conversational commerce.
34:40
I think it's one of these things, which is, is I think it's gonna become
34:44
more and more important, uh, over
34:47
the next few years, especially with ai.
34:49
Um, and because this is how I think you'll interact with ai, you'll start
34:53
to ask AI or what will go with this t-shirt and ai, you know, so if you are
34:58
doing that before AI can do it, people kind of get used to it, don't you?
35:02
Um, and I love the fact you're doing this on the WhatsApp platform.
35:06
Um, I'm, I mean, I'm not, you know, it's not that I'm pro WhatsApp,
35:09
but I get why you would do it on that platform, because that's the
35:12
platform that makes sense for this.
35:14
Where do you see it going?
35:15
Well, I'm curious, over the next few years, the whole WhatsApp
35:18
thing, where do you see it going?
35:20
So I think it'll, uh, you will have the same numbers.
35:23
Like, like in the Asian market, it'll cross 70 to 80% of all communications
35:28
because, because of the flexibility in terms of technology, that what are the
35:32
different things you can do on WhatsApp as rightly, as rightly highlighted
35:36
by you that on the, on the flow, you.
35:39
Orders on WhatsApp, you can start a subscription.
35:43
You can stop a subscription.
35:45
Alright, on the flow, when, let's say a product is already a, an
35:48
order is already placed sim and the possibilities are so high.
35:53
For example, on, uh, yesterday I was talking at an event, uh,
35:57
and we was, we were, we were the topic of the discussion work.
36:01
NPS scores.
36:02
Alright, so, uh, on email and SMS, the, the collection rate of NPS is
36:08
just five to 15%, but on a WhatsApp it is as high as 40 to 60% because you
36:14
know the customer will open it because he's expecting a message from someone.
36:18
He opens it.
36:20
And if you, and also you can gamify the entire experience.
36:24
It should not look, it should not look like a bland corporate feedback form.
36:28
You can gamify the entire experience that when someone clicks on, on, on an answer,
36:33
it should show a live graph of that.
36:36
How other people have responded, responded to it.
36:39
Alright?
36:40
In fact, uh, uh, other things which can be done on WhatsApp is, uh, running a poll.
36:46
Alright.
36:47
Or a contest.
36:48
So let's say during any part of the month, alright, when you don't have any new thing
36:53
to send to your customer that you don't have any launch, you don't have any offer,
36:57
but how to engage with your customer.
36:59
You can, like, you know, in UK you have, um, premier, um, um, you, you have
37:05
football matches throughout the year.
37:06
So a simple message can go to a customer, Hey, who do you
37:10
think will win today's match?
37:11
Chelsea or Liverpool.
37:12
When someone clicks on, let's say Chelsea.
37:15
Liverpool
37:16
Yeah, you do.
37:17
When someone clicks Chelsea Abhishek, you send 'em a message
37:19
back going, you are clearly wrong.
37:21
pool so they can see a live graph that what other people have voted and, and
37:28
a brand can say, if your team wins today, you'll get additional 10% off
37:32
yeah, yeah, yeah.
37:33
again.
37:34
Again, you can trigger these thing and you can gamify the entire
37:37
experience so that it doesn't look like a very promotional thing.
37:41
Mm-hmm.
37:42
And also in, and also the same time during a month again, you have uh, uh,
37:47
uh, basically reco created a recall in, in the mind of the customer.
37:52
So, so, so see, the thing is, it's, the reason why WhatsApp
37:57
will grow is because of these opportunities which are also available
38:01
from a tech point of view, which are not available on, on a static
38:05
platform, like an email or an sms.
38:07
Alright?
38:08
And also because it is open.
38:10
As it is owned by Meta, so there is a very good connect between Instagram and
38:15
WhatsApp or, or Facebook and WhatsApp.
38:18
In fact, all these automation can also be done on, on, uh, Instagram chats also.
38:23
So let's say if you run an ad of a, of a particular product as a
38:27
brand, in the comment section, if anyone writes price, please.
38:31
Other things the bots can answer on the, on the chats also.
38:35
Yeah.
38:36
Yeah.
38:36
So the connection is there.
38:37
In fact, uh, in, in Asian market, uh, the, the primary key on, uh, or the
38:43
primary login is the mobile number.
38:45
So
38:46
whenever anyone clicks on an ad on, on, uh, on Instagram, it can directly take
38:51
two of WhatsApp channel also of the brand.
38:53
Yeah.
38:55
That's interesting you make that comment.
38:56
The primary login is the phone number.
38:59
So.
38:59
It's, it's interesting when I, whenever I travel to the states.
39:03
Um, one of the things that I notice actually, that they've done over
39:06
there is, like in supermarkets, you know, you get your, um, uh, I dunno
39:12
if you've come across these yet in Tesco, you can get your, like,
39:14
your club card voucher or you get different pricing and things like that.
39:17
In the States, it's, it's not you, you go to the checkout and you
39:20
just putting your phone number, there's, there's a little box.
39:24
Um, you're putting your phone number in it and it knows all your accounts.
39:26
And that's, that's how they've done it.
39:28
They've done it on the phone number so then they can text you.
39:31
Obviously now WhatsApp you as well because it seems to be a more
39:33
effective method of communication.
39:36
Absolutely.
39:36
I don't know of any e-commerce store I have shopped at that has done checking on
39:43
the basis of a phone number over an email.
39:46
Um, but I'm curious.
39:48
I mean, if, if this is what they're doing in Asia, it's you,
39:53
I almost wonder what would happen if we offered it as an option.
39:56
Do you know what I mean?
39:57
And, and just to check it and see what, so you do get the, the numbers from people.
40:01
I'm, I'm curious.
40:02
You got me thinking now, but.
40:03
Yeah, so, so let's take an example of Shopify also.
40:07
Shopify is a global company, but they realize that in, in, in
40:11
the Asian market, the primary.
40:13
Login for a customer cannot be emailed.
40:16
So a few years back they, they, they even change it to mobile number.
40:19
Now that is why, because we used to run the checkout.
40:22
So if anyone enters their mobile number and their password automatically, we
40:26
used to pull all their last purchase.
40:29
Uh, so let's say all their preferred payment options on, on the checkout
40:32
page, if they have, let's say five loyalty points coming from five
40:36
different channels, whether it's a card loyalty point or some inter
40:39
miles or something, we used to show that, okay, you can burn these.
40:43
Uh, 10,000 points in this transaction itself.
40:46
So, because mobile number was a primary key, suddenly we, we, we used to get all
40:51
these data collated in one checkout, which made the life easy of for the customer.
40:56
So.
40:57
So maybe slowly and, and, and it started from India, but slowly and steadily, it
41:01
goes, it, it went to other markets, uh, in Asia and similarly in Middle East also.
41:07
So maybe slowly and steadily, mobile number will become optional
41:12
in, in many places so that all these things can be accessed.
41:16
And in fact, I'll tell you one, uh, one very interesting thing,
41:19
which, which I encountered two, three months back here in uk.
41:23
Uh.
41:24
Few of our brands was selling their products in, in US also these,
41:28
these people who are using our quick Engage product, WhatsApp, and they
41:31
said, can I send messages in us?
41:34
Uh, so I said, but people don't use WhatsApp in us.
41:38
So, uh, so interestingly that founder told me that, you know, 20 to 20% of
41:43
the customers in the US have started using WhatsApp and that 20 to 30%
41:48
population is comparable to uk.
41:51
I want to send, can you support it?
41:54
I said, yes.
41:54
It's a global platform.
41:56
The message can be sent to any
41:58
Any
41:58
Any number.
41:58
Yeah.
41:59
Yeah, so, so we enabled it from them and, and they are sending messages to the
42:04
customers on WhatsApp in us also, though, we don't go out and promote it, but slowly
42:09
and sadly now at least we have good six, seven brands, uh, in the UK who have
42:15
customers in us, and they interact with them on WhatsApp through this channel.
42:20
That's awesome.
42:21
That's awesome.
42:22
I'm, I'm loving this.
42:23
I'm curious, do how quick engage is a platform that you use?
42:27
Is this a Shopify plugin?
42:28
Is this an API that we can use?
42:31
How does, how do you guys connect with us?
42:33
So, so it's a Shopify app, so it's a public app on Shopify and, uh, any
42:37
if I don't have a Shopify store, I can't use it.
42:41
At the moment you can't, but we are trying to build a solution.
42:45
It's, it's, uh, it's in our roadmap.
42:47
I think in next six months it'll be available for other platforms like
42:51
Magento or, or other platforms.
42:54
fantastic.
42:56
Yeah.
42:57
Abhishek.
42:57
Listen, I'm aware of time, man, and it's, it's quickly departing from me.
43:01
Um, but I found this fascinating and I think I've really enjoyed the challenge
43:05
of thinking differently about e-commerce.
43:07
Even just simple things like logging in with an email and just thinking about it
43:10
differently I think is super powerful.
43:12
Um, so how do people.
43:16
Reach you?
43:16
How do they connect with you if they want to do that?
43:19
Um, if they want to find out more about GoKwik, about GoKwik,
43:21
engage and all that sort of stuff, what's the best way to do it?
43:25
Absolutely, I think they can.
43:25
They can reach out to me on LinkedIn.
43:28
I'm happy to share my LinkedIn profile with you and also if
43:31
people can remember, my email is.
43:33
abhishek@gokwik.co.
43:37
And, uh, so they can always, I'm happy to interact with, with, with clients
43:41
one-on-one because I've, uh, because it's a, it's a new, uh, geography for us
43:47
and the best way to build a product is.
43:50
Through, through right.
43:51
Customer feedback.
43:52
So we don't want to build the product in silo and, and just send it in the market.
43:57
We want to, I, I really love to interact with more customers and agencies so
44:01
that we can, we can alter the product according to what, what, what really
44:05
the, their, their requirement is.
44:08
Fantastic.
44:09
Fantastic.
44:10
Well, Abhishek, we will of course put all of those links in the show notes, which
44:14
you can get along, uh, with a transcript for free at ecommercepodcast.net.
44:18
Of course, it will be come into your inbox with the newsletter.
44:21
All the links and stuff will be in there as well if you're
44:23
subscribed to the newsletter.
44:24
And of course, if you're on the, uh.
44:26
On the old mobile phone, you can just scroll down and you're
44:29
your app and your podcast app and it'll all be there as well.
44:31
Um, Abhishek, listen, I, I, I should have done this before,
44:34
but I com I'm so engrossed.
44:36
Um, question for Matt.
44:37
Let's do that.
44:38
What's your question?
44:39
For me, this is where I ask, I like to ask my guests for a question.
44:42
I take the question and then I'll go and answer it on social media.
44:47
I'm really, really curious.
44:49
What's your question for me?
44:50
So.
44:52
I think I, I have a very, uh, so I want to understand, uh, so, you know,
44:57
uh, you, you, you have heard that what, what different products we have.
45:00
Do you think, uh, it's the right time to enter into US?
45:05
Okay, I will answer that question over on social media.
45:08
If you wanna know what I think about GoKwik, going into the states.
45:11
Go quickly over to LinkedIn.
45:13
Uh, find me on LinkedIn, Matt Edmundson.
45:15
I will be on that, answering that question.
45:17
Um, but Abhishek, listen man, I've really, really enjoyed the conversation.
45:21
Really intrigued by what you guys are doing.
45:24
Um, and I will definitely be following your journey.
45:28
Now we've got to the end of the show.
45:31
We've got to that part where I do the saving, the best tool.
45:35
Last question.
45:37
Uh, and so this is where, for the listeners that have made it this far.
45:42
I mean, we're sneakily trying to get people to listen to
45:43
more and more of the show.
45:44
Obviously, um, it's is, is not rocket science what we're doing, but for those
45:48
that have stayed, Abhishek we, we like to do the saving the best or less.
45:51
What's your best tip for those that have stayed the longest?
45:55
What, what?
45:56
What's your value bomb?
45:58
So one, uh, at least for the, for the customers from the UK
46:02
market, I think you should.
46:05
Immediately sign up for WhatsApp because you'll get the first movers
46:09
advantage every, when everyone is sending communication on email, at
46:13
least for the next one year, you will have the first movers advantage.
46:16
None of your competitors are doing it on the same channel,
46:19
so it's kind of a cheat sheet.
46:21
Uh, an example of that, one of a brand who does 12 million pounds in
46:26
a year during the Black Friday sale last year, they'd sent all their
46:29
marketing on WhatsApp and they ended up doing 1 million pound in a day.
46:33
And.
46:34
So
46:37
all doing.
46:39
Hmm.
46:41
Do your Black Friday promos on WhatsApp.
46:43
You hit it here first, ladies and gentlemen.
46:44
And that's a good idea because everybody's inbox is just full of junk.
46:47
So, um, I love that.
46:50
Can we implement it quick enough, uh, at the time of recording?
46:53
Uh, we've got a couple months, so maybe, uh, Abhishek listen, thanks man.
46:56
Thanks for coming on the show.
46:57
Really, really appreciate it.
46:59
And, um, it's been an absolute storm.
47:01
I loved it, loved every second of it.
47:03
Uh, so thank you for joining me.
47:06
Thank you very much.
47:07
It was a pleasure.
47:08
The, the conversation was great.
47:10
I, I hope to follow you.
47:11
I, I, I will follow your journey and, uh, listen to your
47:14
other, other podcast as well.
47:16
Fantastic.
47:17
Well, that's what we like, another listener.
47:19
Why not?
47:19
Uh, that's it from me.
47:20
That's it from Abhishek.
47:22
Thank you so much for joining us.
47:23
Have a fantastic week wherever you are in the world.
47:26
I will see you next time.
47:27
Bye for now.