Latest / 🎙️ Rebuild & Fulfill Real conversations on burnout, rebuilding, and becoming stronger than before. / The Guy Who Says "Send Me" | Episode 15
Transcript
- Kelsey Dunbar (Co-Founder): Life has a way of testing us. Sometimes it's a setback, sometimes it's a failure. Sometimes it's a season so difficult that you begin questioning everything you thought you knew about yourself. Our guest today knows a thing or two about rebuilding. Steve Warner has been a trader, entrepreneur, author, coach, speaker, husband, father, and mentor. He's experienced tremendous success, painful setbacks, battles with depression, recovery. reinvention and has dedicated much of his life to helping others navigate their own challenges. Today we're going to talk about resilience, recovery, purpose, family, legacy, and what it really means to stay in the game of life when life gets hard. This is Steve Werner. Welcome back Rebuild and Fulfill. I'm Kelsey Dunbar. ⁓ Marc Rogala (Co-Founder): And I'm Marc Rogello. Kelsey Dunbar (Co-Founder): Today we're joined by Steve Werner. Steve is the founder of Hour of Champions, gritty wellness, host of Gritty Radio, and author of The Titan, and someone who has spent years helping people build resilience, discipline, and purpose. Steve, welcome to Rebuild and Fulfill. Steve Werner: Good morning guys and thanks for having me. Kelsey Dunbar (Co-Founder): Absolutely. I I've looked forward to this conversation for a while. Steve was recommended to me by somebody else that I've been friends with for a long time and friends with on Facebook. ⁓ And they relocated halfway across the country and still keep up with Hour of Champions. ⁓ And when recommended that I check him out, I was like, yeah, definitely. ⁓ this is a guy we want to have on our podcast. So ⁓ so Steve, we're gonna jump right in. ⁓ you've worn a lot of different hats throughout your life, trader, business owner, coach, author, speaker, all the things I mentioned before. But when you look back at your journey, what was the rebuild that changed you the most? Steve Werner: Well, what a great question. What a great opening question. I think the rebuild that changed me the most was ⁓ after a major setback ⁓ in business in 2009, I found out how fragile I was and how life could really be. And I had to spend a very painful year of ⁓ my life getting off a lot of prescriptive drugs. And I've been challenged my whole life through my youth up until that point through various careers, always kind of the underdog. But this one I kind of felt alone in doing and the experience of one year of your life, of dedicating one year of your life to shaping the rest of your journey can be daunting, but it can also be incredibly rewarding. And here I am to tell it. Marc Rogala (Co-Founder): So Steve Everybody in the audience knows that I'm an addict in recovery. ⁓ and I was introduced to prescription medication pain pills as a result of a neck and back issue. But I truly was abusing them significantly at the end. I was self-medicating. What's interesting about your story after you had some challenges with your business is you were actually taking a number of prescription medications as prescribed by the doctor for an extended period of time. And you actually became addicted to that. So how did you feel when you first found out that you were addicted to those medications? And how was that process as far as getting off of them? Steve Werner: Yeah, when I first found out, I was embarrassed actually. Like I was, ⁓ I got into a dark spot because I thought being an addict was reserved for heroin or crack cocaine or something like that. And I wound up having a breakfast one day with a young doctor friend of mine and he didn't like the way I looked. And he said I had a glazed look in my eyes and I got offended to tell you the truth. And he said to me, what are you on? And I kept, eating and he said to me, I'm asking you, what are you on? And I said, well, you know, I had some business issues in 2009. had a painfully unwind, a masterpiece of a business. And I had some serious battles with insomnia and depression, anxiety. And I got put on some medication by a doctor and he asked me what the medications were. And I rattled off four different medications. And he looked at me and he said, you're addicted. And I started like literally choking on my food thinking, could he be right? And why is he saying that? And then when I said, no, no, no, I, you know, I don't abuse him. I take him as prescribed. And he went on to ask if I ever tried to get off. And I said no. And he said, well, good luck if you did, because you wouldn't be able to. You're addicted. And then he put me to a test ⁓ for the next 10 months. And I found out what addiction really felt like. But I was to answer your original question, because I might have gotten long-winded there. was like embarrassed at the time, not knowing that I'm probably one of 50 million people in the same boat, you know? Marc Rogala (Co-Founder): Yeah, and I think that's important for the audience to understand. I mean, when people think of addiction, they do think of like alcoholism, heroin, opiate pain pills and things like that. But you can get addicted to prescribed medication that the doctor's prescribing for an extended period of time. And ⁓ I know like in my particular case, when I was introduced to opiates, I had an ignorance. I had no idea like w I mean I was I was prescribed a painkiller. But it was an opiate, and I had no idea how it rewired the brain and how you can get addicted to these things. I had an ignorance back then. All I knew is that if I took a pill, I was able to sleep in in my bed next to my wife for the first time in seven months because my neck and back was so excruciating. You know, and and then it just evolved from there from the prescription that the doctor prescribed. So I I felt shame, I felt guilt, you know, that I didn't do my research prior about these medications and the consequences of taking these medications and so forth. ⁓ you mentioned shame, you mentioned a little guilt, but honestly, what was the more difficult part? Dealing with the shame and the guilt or the actual recovery process of getting off those medications? Steve Werner: Well, you know, again, the great irony is ⁓ prescriptive meds for depression, anxiety, ⁓ stress, overwhelmed, they're painkillers too. They're just killing emotional pain instead of physical pain, you know? ⁓ So I had to wrestle ⁓ with the fact, you know, part of me was embarrassed and the other part of me was like, you know, maybe I could actually get through this shit and change the whole world. That was the thing that I started getting in my mind, because ⁓ I didn't want to believe that I was addicted, to tell you the truth. And the doctor friend of mine asked me, ⁓ told me that he would help me get off everything, but I had to let him know right then if I was in or out. So it was kind of like trading to me, right? Like when you're in the trading, world you have a split second to make a decision not 10 not not a second not three seconds it's a split second and he was putting me to the same test are you in or are you out i need to know right now and i said okay i'm in and he said all right i want you to give me your wife phone number i need to tell her how to ⁓ you know dispense these ⁓ drugs to you one at a time i've got a I've got to get in touch with my colleagues from University of Chicago Hospital to figure out how to do this without killing you, which was frightening. I'm having breakfast and all I agreed to do was have breakfast with a young friend and the next thing I know he's going to try not to kill me. ⁓ And I can tell you that night number two, I was laying in bed. My wife gave me what looked like a piece of salt and I go, where's the rest of the pill? Kelsey Dunbar (Co-Founder): Woo! Steve Werner: And she said, well, that's what you get tonight. And I'm like, you got to be freaking kidding me. I take four pills every night and all of sudden I got this tiny little speck of salt and I took it. I went to sleep. I woke up at two o'clock in the morning and I was in full withdrawal, believe it or not, from Benzos two nights later. ⁓ Shaking like a leaf, tears pouring down my face and ⁓ I texted my doctor friend. Marc Rogala (Co-Founder): Yeah. Steve Werner: at two in the morning, I need more Kalanapin. And you know how you can see the bubble come through on the text? It came through and it said, fuck you. And I looked at it, I was in disbelief, right? I'm like, Ari, I need more Kalanapin. And it comes back again, go fuck yourself. And I called him, I said, dude, I'm melting down, I'm shivering, I'm crying. And his response, get in the street and run 20 wind sprints right now. Marc Rogala (Co-Founder): Yeah. Steve Werner: And I said, but it's February 5th, it's four below zero or February 4th, five below zero. And he said, I know the date. I know the time. I'm a doctor. I've got to be up in four hours. Do what I say. So I went, I threw on a hoodie. I threw on some sweatpants. I went out in the freezing cold and I didn't sprint. leaned forward and my body took me 50 yards, turned back 50 yards. did it 20 times. I came back and I texted him. I did it. And he wrote back, how do you feel? And I wrote, I actually feel a little better." And he said, great, get your day started. Make yourself something to eat and start reading a book. And I wrote, dude, it's 2 42 in the morning. And he said, I know the date. I know the time. I'm going back to bed. Don't call me till six o'clock in the morning. And I described it as that was the first night of 10 months of living hell. That's when I found out that I was really addicted. I, you know, like, For 48 hours, I didn't want to believe it, but boy, ⁓ boy, you asked me the question before we turned up, we started the conversation here about what it felt like. Man, that's when I knew that I was addicted. That feeling, that Benzo withdrawal feeling was the most vicious thing I ever encountered in my life. Marc Rogala (Co-Founder): Yeah. I I feel a responsibility here to mention this on the podcast. ⁓ So when you're taking prescribed medications by a doctor, it is ⁓ absolutely never to get off your scripts cold turkey or without consulting somebody medically. Because some of these withdrawals from some some of these prescription medications could lead to death. I mean, there's two withdrawals out there that actually can kill you: alcohol withdrawals and benzodiazepans, anxious, clonopin, and so forth, it can actually kill you. When I was actually in treatment for the very first time, I had two young men under the age of twenty-five that were actually ⁓ benzoaddics, and we they got through the treatment, and within six months after treatment. They were dead. Steve Werner: Unbelievable. And I'm with you 100%. Like I've, I spent the last eight years like, trying to, you know, trying to highlight the fact that there's, you know, there's a lot of danger in what was deemed polypharmacy to me over medication, but I would never tell anybody. And I'm so glad you put it on the record to attempt to get off without consulting, ⁓ you know, a doctor or somebody in the medical field. There's just three things I wish I would have known that I want the world to know going forward. Three questions to ask always like number one, how long do you think I might be on these? Number two, what are the side effects? And number three, can I get addicted? And if I had those questions in advance, I'm not so sure I would have said give them to me, you know, but I was in so much pain that I just, and I was battling insomnia that I just, needed anything I could. to knock me out. Kelsey Dunbar (Co-Founder): Yeah. So speaking of, you know, the the the pain that you were in, y you know, you once said that losing your business almost cost you your life. Okay. I mean w we just kind of talked about that. So looking back now, what was harder? Losing the business or losing the identity that came along with it? Steve Werner: ⁓ A combination of both, for sure. The business was a masterpiece. was something that was saved from the ashes ⁓ eight years earlier. That was a gigantic debacle that I inherited after my trading career. ⁓ Totally different story, but a big rebuild, relaunch to something that became amazing, actually grew, poised for acquisition. ⁓ A lot of the capital that was raised was from friends and family. And when the credit crisis hit and it was way bigger than me, and I never believed that, we fought feverishly to try to save this business. But when it all ended, I felt a personal responsibility to the people that had invested in the company. ⁓ so losing the business and the identity of, know, I'm the trusted the guy combined really was volcanic to me. Kelsey Dunbar (Co-Founder): So as a as a follow up real quick, so what did losing that business ⁓ teach you about yourself that, success never could? Cause obviously we we talk all the time about how a lot of the lessons that ⁓ we learn through life come through the struggle, not from the success. So what could you share that's like that? Steve Werner: Well, I can tell you I met some people along the way that helped me navigate that journey that I would have never met ⁓ had I not gone through that very tumultuous bad, bad period of my life. And I think back sometimes, like, if I had to do it all over again, would I go through that loss? Because if I didn't, I would have never met these people that were gigantic influences to the man that I'd become. You know, and that's a really interesting thing to conceptualize in life. ⁓ But I learned a lot along the way. I learned that ⁓ success is not linear, that sometimes you gotta get the shit kicked out of you even when you don't expect it. ⁓ Sometimes there are events in life that are way bigger than the human factor, that tsunamis that no matter how hard you try, ⁓ you can't save. ⁓ you know, lot of life lessons and a lot of great people along the way. Marc Rogala (Co-Founder): Yeah. You know what I like about you is ⁓ you talk a lot about mental, physical, and spiritual fitness. And that really kind of dovetails right into what I talk about when I'm dealing with individuals that are dealing with various addictions and underlying mental health and just not in a good state of mind. I know that the AA Big Book has a beautiful chapter called We Agnostics. And we talk oftenly about the spiritual malady. And sometimes, you know, the spiritual malady can lead to some traits or or some mental health issues. ⁓ I know you're really big into spiritual fitness. What does spiritual fitness look like for you, Steve? And how do you know if you're drifting away from it and what keeps you in check? Steve Werner: Hmm, well, you know, ⁓ you use the term the mind a lot and the spiritual part to me is the soul. You know, I thought that I had a mind problem forever. And what I really found out when I got to the other side of this whole thing that I had an empty soul from a lot of life experience along the way, not just that tsunami from 2009. It was kind of a manifestation of ⁓ decades. of my life. ⁓ And I coined this phrase about six years ago, you can't cure a soul problem with a pill. ⁓ And then ironically, I was working out the other day and a friend of mine from the health club like spontaneously said to me, there's no chemical cure for a spiritual problem. And he, he got that from the Sopranos. And I went and I looked it up and yes, it was Anna Soprano's episode from Christopher, the nephew character, I believe. But again, it was such a coincidence. like, this is my phrase. You can't cure a soul problem with a pill. Spoken 15 years earlier on the highest rated show in the world, you know? And, to get back to ⁓ the part, right? So people, my friends challenged me. all the time, people challenge me all the time, when did you become so religious? And I'm sure you guys know this, like, I'm not religious, I'm spiritual. And they say, well, what's the difference? I've learned that religious people are trying to avoid hell, spiritual people have already been there. So if you just found out you were spiritual, congratulations, you know? And for me, it's like, I can't go do a yoga class and get spiritual. I think that's the misconception here. For me, when my soul is low, I use this metaphor. And I'm sorry, guys, I can get long-winded. But I am a person that uses a lot of metaphors, especially things that I've come up with. And when we were young, because you guys are probably a decade or two younger than me for sure. You probably remember when we used to go to the gas station with our parents, the attendant would ask three questions. Do remember what those three questions were? Kelsey Dunbar (Co-Founder): No. Steve Werner: What kind of gas would you like? Can I clean your windshield and can I check your oil? Right? So if I think about that dipstick, if I put that dipstick down into my heart and I wipe it off and put it down again and look at it, I go, ⁓ I'm a little low on gratitude. You know? ⁓ And that's where your soul starts feeling on empty, you know, when your gratitude is low. So what do I do? I probably go into my closet, find some clothes that I don't wear anymore. I get in my car and I drive to a homeless shelter in a town a few towns over from me and I know there's a bin there that I could drop it in. And when I drive away, I know I will never know who's gonna wear those items, but I know that the universe, God, whatever you wanna call it, will know and somehow or another there'll be a connection between my soul and that person and that universe and that fills it up for me. keeps me going. That's how I exercise my soul and stay in spirituality, to tell you the truth. Not like just reading a book or listening to a YouTube, like actually doing something meaningful. You know, that's my way. And I'm sure that many different people have many different ways, whether it's from meditation or connection or prayer. But that's exclusive to me. Marc Rogala (Co-Founder): Yeah, you know, ⁓ it's interesting when you start talking about the soul. Kelsey and I have had a lot of conversations about this, and I always tell them the eyes tell the story. All you gotta do is look at somebody's eyes. Like with me doing the work that I do in the community, I pretty much can tell not only are they intoxicated, but pretty much what they're under the influence of just by looking at the eyes and looking at their pupils. However, You can tell if there's a spiritual malady by looking at the eyes, just a blank stare at it's soulless. And when you start working with these individuals and you start, you know, working on their recovery and getting them in a better state of ⁓ state of mind mentally and physically and then spiritually, you can literally see the light come out in their eyes and it's such a beautiful thing. It really is. Steve Werner: Yeah, that is for sure. Kelsey Dunbar (Co-Founder): Yeah, so you talk about the the work that you had to go through, ⁓ the soul searching, everything. And, you know, then you obviously came up with your one hour of champions, which is basically your call to arms of hey, spend an hour a day on on yourself getting physical, getting moving, doing your soul ⁓ But ⁓ I thing I heard you say recently that that really stuck with me, you said I fell in love with the process. So what does that mean to you? Because most people are focused on outcomes, you know, but but somewhere along the way, you learn to actually love the work itself. So how did that happen? Steve Werner: Yeah, so, you know, after the initial sprints, ⁓ I knew that this, wasn't gonna end that night that I was in for the long game. You know, this was gonna be a marathon. I was warned of that because I'll refer to my friend as Ari, that's his name, said to me, I can only get you off one med at a time, you know, so this is gonna take time and I don't have an end date in mind for you. So ⁓ I started going to the gym at three o'clock in the morning. My ⁓ health club the time was open 24 seven ⁓ and I really pushing myself physically. started identifying the fact that if I'm going to get to the other side of this, I have to be like in pristine physical shape just so that the spiritual and mindset piece all kind of come together and I started getting up really early and then jumping on YouTube and I didn't know anything about spirituality. didn't know. I knew mindset training from like a 30,000 foot level. had gone to Anthony Robbins 30 years ago and, you know, in tune to, you know, different types of mindset. To me, it was just, you know, a buzz phrase. I didn't really know what it meant or how it was going to play into my life. But I started YouTube-ing every morning things that interested me. And I'm like, how am I going to learn and get this all into an hour? So when I would go to the gym, I would just play it. it would kind of like, you know, just I wouldn't sit in a corner and listen to it. would just kind of like flow in while I was working out. And I would capture things that I never knew about before. I was listening to Wayne Dyer, Marianne Williamson, Gabrielle Bernstein, just about different pieces of spirituality. And then finding little segments on mindset training. And one day I was leaving the gym at like 4.30 in the morning and a guy caught me at the front desk and he said, buddy, I see you every day. Are you like a cop or a fireman or something? And I said, no, why do you ask? And he said, cause I'm getting here at 4.30 in the morning and you're like leaving, like where are you going? What are you doing? And I said, I smiled. said, oh, I'm saving my life. Marc Rogala (Co-Founder): Yeah. Steve Werner: And he said to me, what do you mean? And I gave him like a 30 second just overview on what I was doing. And he said, ⁓ my God, you do that all in an hour? It's like you're in a championship fight. And I literally went in my car, it was pitch black. And I flipped over a business card and I wrote the hour of champions. And I said, if I make it to the other side of this, because I wasn't sure, I still wasn't, I didn't know if I would. I'm gonna share this with the world. ⁓ And because that guy created curiosity, like it started, I started really loving what I was doing. And I'm much like you guys, I believe. Like I've been up since three this morning. I couldn't stay in bed waiting to get on this, into this conversation today. That's my life and that's the process that I love. And I knew that it was going to be for me and people like me, not. Not everybody else. ⁓ Are you guys familiar with Robin Sharma by any chance? Marc Rogala (Co-Founder): I am, Steve Werner: Right. So Robin Sharma is like an Anthony Robbins type, you know, worldwide ⁓ coach and author. And he came up with a program called the 5 a.m. Club. And it's almost identical to what I do. So about six, seven years ago, there was a young lady helping me with content and we got on a Zoom call, much like this. And ⁓ she started crying. And I said, what's matter? she's, I mean, she was like trembling. She said, you have to be honest with me. And I said, be honest about what? like, I don't know what you're talking about. And she's, she couldn't even get out of her mouth. She said, did you copy Robin Sharma? And I said, copy Robin Sharma. And she said, yeah, he's got the 5 a.m. club. It's exactly what the hour of champions is. And I said, shit, I think he copied me. And she goes, but how can he copy you? He's Robin Sharma. I go, Kelsey Dunbar (Co-Founder): Ha ha ha. Marc Rogala (Co-Founder): Yeah. Steve Werner: I don't give a shit who he is. My journey is documented. The entire 2015 journey is documented. I fell in love with what I did. I created a program to share with the world. And now I didn't create it to sell to people. I created it to share with people. And I love what I do. I want people to do what I do. But I also understand it's not for everyone. And that's been the hardest part for me because Marc Rogala (Co-Founder): Listen. Steve Werner: I want people to feel the way I feel. I want them to explore this mind, body, and spirit thing way more than just a cliche, but as a way of life and a prescription that actually works ⁓ instead of a pill or a drink. Kelsey Dunbar (Co-Founder): Yeah, so having to do with that that falling in love with the process though, and I I kind of feel like that's a superpower that that we all share that we actually love that process. Do you think that's one of the reasons why so many people struggle with change because they just focus too much on the result and not everything that you get along the way? Steve Werner: ⁓ yeah, fear of change for sure. You know, yeah, I had one one super client that ⁓ a few years ago we engaged and I knew that I knew that he needed me ⁓ and ⁓ that I could help him and we were on our initial call and I said to him, OK, we're going to, we're going to start our coaching engagement. Do you like mornings or evenings better? He goes, I hate mornings. Like I'm an evening guy. I said, all right, we'll start Thursday at 4 a.m. And he said, no, no, you didn't hear me. I said, I hate mornings. I said, I heard you loud and clear. This is called the hour of champions, not the hour of convenience. So if you want to make a change, we're going to start at 4 a.m. on Thursday morning. And he showed up and I swear to God, he looked like a college kid that was hungover, know, hair disheveled and like Marc Rogala (Co-Founder): Yeah. Steve Werner: totally out of place and I looked at him and I said, are you tired? And he said, yeah. And I said, or do you think you're tired? Cause it's four in the morning. And he said, God, I don't know. Like I thought I was supposed to be tired. I guess I'm really not tired. And I said, well, there's your first breakthrough, right? Like, like here we are, it's 4 a.m. You're programmed to believe this sucks. He goes, and we engaged every Thursday for two years at four o'clock in the morning. And by the end of the engagement, he looked like an army drill sergeant. And by the way, he went from 265 pounds down to 187. As of last week, we still stay in touch and I'm not his health and wellness coach. So I was just his, let's get on a better path in life coach he uses the phrase all the time. I fell in love with the process. Marc Rogala (Co-Founder): That's a beautiful thing. ⁓ there's something that's caught my attention. You've been quoted as saying before that people aren't just afraid of failure, but they're also afraid of success as well. Can you elaborate on that? Steve Werner: Thank you. Sure. It's as simple as this. It's like, ⁓ shit, what if it works? Then I have to go do it. ⁓ there's better fooling us than us, know, so we, put ourselves in a trap of saying, I probably can't do this. ⁓ And that's just a mechanism that says, one of two things, I'm afraid of failure or I'm afraid this works, that I actually have to go do it. ⁓ And that's, found myself in that space many times. It's like, you know, all of a sudden I'm on a different road now. kind of, I'm kind of, I'm kind of comfortable on the road that I'm on. And what if this actually converts to something that I might have to change? And do I want to change or am I afraid to change? I think a lot of people get trapped in there. ⁓ it's again, it's just like, ⁓ shit, what if it works? Marc Rogala (Co-Founder): ⁓ do you pay attention a lot to words? Like when you're working with your clients, like when you hear the word can't, do you correct them? Or if they say, I'm gonna try to do this, I'm gonna try to do that. Cause my my favorite quote specifically when I'm working with individuals trying to get them sober now is when I hear, I'm gonna try to make some changes or I'm gonna try to stay sober, I say don't try, do. You have to believe it in your mind that you're gonna do this. Steve Werner: Yeah, I think I might take a little different approach. I ask him what's keeping them from trying and let them create the breakthrough. Maybe that's some sort of coaching technique that I learned a long time ago. ⁓ But I heard a great one years ago too, that I try to adhere to. don't listen to what people say. I try to hear what they think and what's going on in their mind. right, and why they're trapped and why they're telling themselves that. And I know that if I can help them crack that myth, that bullshit, you know, that they could get on this alternative path by themselves or at least kind of dive into the deep end of the pool. And then all of a sudden they feel responsible for their own change instead of Steve pushed me there. And that creates like a lot of power within them. You know, then they know I can do it again. I can do it because I was fearful. I didn't know if I can do it. Marc Rogala (Co-Founder): ⁓ yeah. Steve Werner: and somehow or another this young doctor reappears in my life just at the right time, you know, to put me to the challenge. Marc Rogala (Co-Founder): Do you one follow up question? Sorry. ⁓ mindfulness or living in the moment the one day at a time. I mean, for yourself, like in early recovery when you're making those changes and with the individuals you work with, do you talk a lot about that? Just win the day, let's just focus on the day at hand and then tomorrow if we wake up, God wrong, we'll focus on tomorrow. You get into that a lot? Steve Werner: Yeah, and kind of with a different spin, but I love the question because I learned this a long time ago from a great coach too. Like, you know, one of my jobs is to help people define reality. Right. And he, he, he helped me at the time understand that if I live moment to moment, I'm going to bounce around like a ping pong ball. Right. Like, ⁓ you get a call at nine o'clock in the morning, you get a call from your Assistant hey Steve that coaching client that you are trying to engage with gave us a call and You know, he's gonna hire you and all of a sudden you're like great. This is awesome And then ten minutes later you get a call. Oh, sorry wrong Steve He was working with another coach named Steve and now you're like, oh shit, know And you're you go like this, you know, you go up and down up and down up and down instead of understanding reality that There's somewhere in between, you know, you get good news, you get bad news. And if you could live in the moment versus moment to moment, you got to have a better chance of controlling your journey. And it's, the, the ironic thing for me again is like, you know, I'm a former trader, so I'm a student of the markets and the markets go like this up and down, up and down. And so does life. Right. And they're both designed to shake you out. to see how much pain you can take, right? Before you get out and it gets very noisy. Life and the markets get very noisy. And I think to your point about the moment, if you can learn to understand that, you know, nothing is linear. There's a lot of ups and downs and you can stay in that moment. Really this one second of what we have, life becomes a lot more peaceful and it's challenging. But yes, that's what I try to help people discover. Marc Rogala (Co-Founder): It's funny. It's funny you mentioned that stock market analogy. I'm an insurance guy and I got my series six and sixty-three and so forth. So I got, you know, involved in some investments too. So Kelsey knows this. I always use the analogy, ⁓ you know, the stock market, the volatility in a diversified portfolio. You're gonna you're gonna minimize those peaks and and valleys and try to be as straight of a line as possible, but like you said, it's not linear. I use the analogy of that when I'm talking to individuals about life. You know, you got the right structure in place and you're doing the right things every day, it's gonna make the pain of life a lot easier to go through. Instead of the big volatility that you're gonna have, you're still gonna have ups and you're gonna have downs, but you're gonna be able to get through those down periods in a lot healthier way. That's what we talked about. Steve Werner: Yeah, well to your market analogy also, right? I've used this because when the market goes down and it's going down violently and it looks like it's just never going to end, all of a sudden it catches a level of support. And that could be mathematical, it could be geopolitical, it could be emotional. And the same thing with life, just when life looks like it's really tanking, all of a sudden somebody steps in and it could be your clergy, could be a family member, could be somebody that just helps catch you and level you off. then conversely, when it goes up and it looks like it just never going to stop getting better, all of a sudden it whacks you on the side of the head because you got a little overconfident or a little arrogant or something like that. And it kind of sends you back down. And the idea is to diversify and stay in the middle. ⁓ We don't get to see the script of life, right? We think we got it all handled and then we get a horrible phone call a half hour from now that's, it's unpredictable, you know? So emotions fly all over the place. And I just always say, now I just, traded a pill for a prayer, you know? When the emotions got crazy, I used to pop a Benzo and now I get on my hands and knees and I just say, please help me get through these next three hours. And to some people that might sound silly or nonsensical, but In my world, works. Marc Rogala (Co-Founder): Yeah. And and honestly, I just thought about this right now as we're having this discussion. But you know, you you in the stock market you're supposed to buy low at your greatest opportunity to make money and and sell high, right? Well, where's your greatest opportunity to grow? They're in those valleys. You know, those lowest moments, those painful moments of life. You know, that's really where your greatest opportunity to grow is as a human being. So I mean you could take that analogy one step further. Steve Werner: Yeah, know, I think I know for sure that my story is the most powerful piece of my navigational system for my life. And I go back and I look at those peaks and valleys and how I dug myself out, you know, like even going when my parents got divorced and I would bounce around, live with my immigrant grandparents. And I woke up one day at, you know, 12 years old staring at the ceiling going, what just happened? How did I wind up here? You know, like Like I was living in this big house with my parents and this beautiful existence. And now I'm with these older people in this tiny little bedroom. And I spun that story as like a victim for years. And then one day I retold the story from the heroic side. Like I was this 12 year old kid who got this amazing experience living with immigrants and learning the true value of life and love and having to find my way to the. to school and to after school sports and helping them carry the groceries up the stairs, whatever it was. And same story, but one I spawned as a victim, the other I spawned as a hero. And I guess I think that's the way life works ⁓ Kelsey Dunbar (Co-Founder): Yeah. so you talk about that that, you know, you use the word script a lot, like script of life, and so which is kind of funny 'cause it helps me realize where you came up with the idea for flip the script ⁓ on your podcast where you decided to have your son interview you. And this is a question I've really been looking forward to asking. It's probably the f my favorite question that I came up with for you because obviously it involves your son ⁓ and have three boys myself ⁓ and you know, that's kind of why it hits me so hard. Steve Werner: Mm. Kelsey Dunbar (Co-Founder): But there was something that the interview that really stuck with me. ⁓ ⁓ said, you know, he described you as the guy who says, send me. ⁓ I loved this segment ⁓ I was moved really moved by it. So, he said, if somebody's struggling, if somebody needs help, if somebody's hurting, your response is always send me. So what was it like for you hearing him say that? And describing you in that way, in in almost a hero fashion of anybody that needs help, he can send you and he knows that you're going to be there to help and support anybody who needs it. Steve Werner: Well, again, that is such a powerful emotional question, man. was really, thank you for thinking that one through. And yeah, thank you. In 2009 through 2015, my kids saw a version of me that was not pretty. They saw the guy that walked around and told the victim's story. Basically, Kelsey Dunbar (Co-Founder): It hit me too, brother. Steve Werner: sticking my hand out saying, hey, I'm Steve Warner. I'm the guy that lost my big, beautiful business. You should feel sorry for me. That was the vibe that I gave off. And I attracted some real shit into my life and garbage consistently. ⁓ And when I got that opportunity to hook up with Ari and go through that 10 month journey and rebuild myself, I came out the other side. came out as the guy that went from the victim of my story to the hero of my story and I got through the grace of God or the universe, the opportunity to show my kids another version of myself because Dylan could have been explaining that version of that pitiful soul on that podcast ⁓ if he didn't get to see the guy that ⁓ hard to change himself. ⁓ And it me very proud. when he said that, like incredibly proud because that was my son ⁓ telling me something that I can tell you that during that massive struggle, ⁓ Dylan and I were on the golf course and he's ⁓ four years older than his younger brother. And one night he caught me in the hallway, like walking through the hall, like with insomnia, with tears pouring down my face. And I think he was 16 years old and he grabbed me and he pulled me into his bedroom and he said, I got your back and do me a favor. Don't let Brett see you like this. He's too young. Now here's a 16 year old kid saying, I got your back, but don't let my 12 year old brother see me like this. See you like this cause he's too young. And we went out on the golf course the next day. I'll never forget. And he handed me his phone. We were on the tee box. He handed me his phone. said, before you tee off, want you to listen to this. and he hit click and I listened and it was Rocky and it said, life is brutal. It will knock you down and keep you down if you let it, but life is not about how hard you can hit. It's about how hard you can get hit and keep moving forward. And I had tears coming down my face and he said, dad, nobody gets hit and moves forward like you do. And that message was my son telling me the same thing that Rocky was, you telling his son, you know, and on the podcast, just, it gave him another chance to, you know, to give me a chance to be proud of myself through the eyes of my kid. And man, I don't know if many men get that, you know, I really don't. It was one of the greatest gifts I've ever gotten, you know, way bigger than a Porsche or a set of golf clubs or a vacation. That stuff is material nonsense. You ⁓ you get the gift from your kid telling you how proud he is of you that you're the guy that me", ⁓ know, ⁓ there's nothing bigger in life than that. Kelsey Dunbar (Co-Founder): Yeah, dude. I was I I felt the pride for you. I was just like, ⁓ my God, what a moment. That was just so incredible. I I was I was living it with you. And so and it's funny that you mentioned the the Rocky speech. Literally the last podcast that we did, that same speech came up in the conversation. It's hilarious. ⁓ it's such a great speech. and just kind of a follow up, ⁓ and it's gonna be kind of rhetorical, I'm sure, but do you think helping other people has definitely become a part of your purpose? Steve Werner: Mmm. Yeah. Undeniably, it is the elixir. It's the, and I know Marc knows this because I could see the sparkle in his eyes. It is, it is the greatest elixir ⁓ medicine there is in the world. Way better than anything you can take. ⁓ You know, in the, in the, in the recovery programs that I've been in, ⁓ there is the secret sauce is getting to the point where you're helping other people. That's where all the, ⁓ That's where all the strength comes from. And it's funny because, you know, my wife and I were out with another couple a year and a half ago, and the wife made a comment to me and she said that her husband, you know, was able to quit drinking and he didn't need AA, you know. And I just looked and I said, where does he find people to help? And she was like, what? And I go, well, then where does he find people to help? Like, why do you think I go to meetings and become involved in recovery programs? It's not exclusively for me. The greatest reward is to connect with somebody else, the next person that's suffering so that you can help them become rock solid and they can pay it forward. mean, that's the way it works. It's the only way the whole universe is going to heal. There's no magic. formula, you know, it's one person at a time. Marc Rogala (Co-Founder): Yeah, it's beautifully said. And that story about your son really hit home with me. You know, it's ⁓ I don't know how much you know about my story, but you know, my wife left Yeah. Well my left my wife left me in twenty eighteen and ⁓ I got sober in twenty twenty. But the truth be told is none of my kids, they're all adults now, have ex have accepted my amends. So they've not been a part of my life since two thousand eighteen. So I have Steve Werner: Thank you. Not enough, clearly, but I can't wait to hear her. Marc Rogala (Co-Founder): grandchildren that I've never met, I wasn't invited in weddings. I mean it kinda sucks. But that being said, what gets me through it is what you just said, helping others. Because in my phone, I really don't even know what the number is. It's too many to count. I got quite a bit of young men. Okay, that we that have been able to help and get them down the right path to make some significant life changes. ⁓ in a lot of those instances, they come from a broken household, they didn't know their father, they didn't have a male mentor growing up. You know, so how I kind of justify it in my head or ration it in my head is one. I do have faith in God that when the time is right I will be reunited with my children. It's on his terms, not my terms. And the other thing is I went from really having four children to I don't even know, like I don't want to say children, but relationships with individuals that look at me as like a male mentor. And that's very self-serving. But more importantly, I'm just so proud of them about the changes that they made. I some instances they're off the streets, they're out, they're out of gang life, they're sober off of alcohol and drugs. Some of them are business owners. So I mean, it's definitely gave me a purpose and gave me a meaning that I I would have never have seen when I first got sober or even when I was in the weeds of my addictions, you know, right before I got sober. It's a beautiful thing. Beautiful thing. Steve Werner: Well done. It is a beautiful thing. Congratulations on that. To me, it's so heroic. It's indescribable. When you have another young man or young woman tell you that you've been an integral part of helping put them back together and they are now making a difference in the world. I mean, I don't know how anything could be a greater reward. I really don't. Marc Rogala (Co-Founder): Thank you. Yeah, well, you made a comment about healing the universe. That's how it's that's how it's gonna happen is everybody stepping up and everybody trying to help their fellow brothers and sisters. And Kelsey and I talk a lot about that, usually at seven thirty in the morning, almost every morning, right, Kelsey. Well I work out. That's what I'm doing. ⁓ yeah, that's the only time we really talk. He's busy working out, I'm busy working out, eating breakfast, all that stuff, and then we connect when I'm on my right. I work at a behavioral health place in Hoffman Estates. Steve Werner: Why so late? Kelsey Dunbar (Co-Founder): Right, by silly. That's when he's on his way to work. Marc Rogala (Co-Founder): So I got one more question for you, and then I think Kelsey has a wrap-up. But you've obviously coached, mentored, ⁓ worked with a lot of individuals through the years. But by working and helping all those individuals, what has that taught yourself? About yourself? What is that taught you about yourself? What did you find in yourself when you're helping all those individuals? Steve Werner: that God doesn't call the qualified, he qualifies the called. ⁓ That you find out that ⁓ it's ⁓ Kelsey's point that ⁓ Dylan said, call my dad. ⁓ That I'm here to serve. That's what it's taught me. There's no BS around it. ⁓ know that there's a lot of buzz around that too, but ⁓ it is... ⁓ Marc Rogala (Co-Founder): Yeah. Steve Werner: taught me that not every single person on this planet is meant to serve. Everybody's journey is different. And that, ⁓ you know, I had to go through what I went through. I believe in my own self exploration, it's called dark night of the soul, that I had to go through a very dark period to come out the other side and understand that ⁓ I was meant ⁓ as Foo Foo as it sounds to help ⁓ He'll help serve in it and help heal. I am 100 % certain of that and nobody's gonna ever take that away from me, no matter what ⁓ debate or conversation we might have. I know it my heart because I love it. ⁓ I feel it more than anything. I'd rather go help somebody that I don't know right now ⁓ than go play Pebble Beach. ⁓ It's just the truth. You know, and I do adhere to the great John Wooden, the basketball coach had this amazing pyramid of success. And one of the pieces of the pyramid is do something kind every day for someone you'll never know. And I think that if you do that, you might really discover something about yourself that you don't know if you can put that into practice. Kelsey Dunbar (Co-Founder): so Steve, you recently ⁓ talked about having a a health scare that made think differently about time. So when you look ahead now, what kind of legacy are you trying to leave behind? Steve Werner: You know, ⁓ I'm trying to... build my little nuclear family and their family that follows into a pattern of people that care about people. So that ⁓ when I'm no longer here, ⁓ my sons, my grandkids, their kids can say ⁓ much like I do about my grandfather, because my grandfather was a very poor guy, very, very poor, but boy, he served everyone. ⁓ ⁓ You know, I want to create a legacy of somebody that's known as ⁓ somebody that helped. Just helped. And however you wanted to find that, that's fine. know, ⁓ just somebody that helped. Kelsey Dunbar (Co-Founder): And then just kind of a quick follow up. So for somebody listening ⁓ now who feels stuck or overwhelmed or maybe facing a rebuild of their own, what's one thing you would want them to remember? Steve Werner: that the path to success and life, ⁓ life success and business success is not linear. It comes with a lot of bumps and bruises. And the most important thing is really to look out and have conviction that the path you're on is the right path and understand that you might get knocked down a few times, ⁓ but don't change your conviction. If you really believe in your soul that ⁓ there's a place you need to get to, Keep getting up, keep getting up, keep getting up. Kelsey Dunbar (Co-Founder): We always ⁓ give our guests an opportunity to let people know where they can find them, what they're doing, ⁓ ways of contacting you or just finding out what you're gonna be doing next. ⁓ So where can people with you, follow your work, listen to gritty radio or learn more about gritty wellness ⁓ and hour of champions? Steve Werner: Thank you for allowing me to share this. the first thing they can do is they can go to Facebook if they're on Facebook and go to Hour of Champions. Facebook community, not the Hour of Champions, just Hour of Champions. Facebook community. Thank you. Yeah, anybody is welcome to join and interact with people that are just helping people along the way. ⁓ Kelsey Dunbar (Co-Founder): I'll have it I'll have it in the show notes for you, Steve. Steve Werner: Gritty Wellness is ⁓ the catalyst for Hour of Champions. I was not able to describe in two words what Hour of Champions was and ⁓ one of my son's friends brilliantly came ⁓ said to me, wow, what you did just Gritty Wellness. ⁓ So I created a brand around it, clothing brand, because I want people to wear it as a badge of honor. saying this is the way I live my life. On the back it says do what others won't. So there's a Gritty Wellness shop ⁓ on the internet too, soon to be relaunched and hopefully bigger and better. And if you really want to, if you need to reach out, you can always feel free to reach me at steveathourofchampions.com with an email. I answer everybody. It might not be in 10 minutes or day, but I do. will, ⁓ you know, ⁓ here to serve and ⁓ and build gritty along the way. And man, I thank you guys so much for the opportunity to share. because I do get emotional about this stuff, ⁓ as ⁓ I tell you guys to do as well. Marc Rogala (Co-Founder): Well, Steve, I mean I've never met you physically before, but I want to have a cup of coffee with you because I'm telling you, like ⁓ literally everything that talk about, your beliefs, your purpose. I think Kelsey feels like you're you're when you're talking to him, you're almost talking to me. Is that a fair statement, Kelsey? Kelsey Dunbar (Co-Founder): Yeah, I but I I knew that before we even had this conversation. I knew it was gonna be just like that. Marc Rogala (Co-Founder): Kind of eerie. I I get it. So I just want to say thank you very much for being a guest on our podcast and I look forward to working with you in the future. Okay. Thank you so much. Steve Werner: Thank you. Thank you for everything you guys do for humanity also, because that's the most important. Marc Rogala (Co-Founder): Enjoy it. Kelsey Dunbar (Co-Founder): thank you for for noticing, yeah, and and giving us the acknowledgement because that's definitely what we're trying to do. So, you know, again, like Marc said, thank you for sharing your story, your wisdom, your perspective. ⁓ And and we also obviously to thank our listeners. Thank you everyone for listening and checking out this podcast. ⁓ obviously we think it's a great one. ⁓ Steve's got so much to offer and and definitely check him out. and just remember that no matter what challenge you're facing, no matter how difficult the season may be, remember that rebuilding is always possible. So just keep showing up, keep doing the work, keep moving forward, and remember you're not broken. You may just be overloaded. So take care everyone and we'll see you next time on Rebuild and Fulfill. Bye bye.