Latest / The CITIUS MAG Podcast | A Running + Track and Field Show / The Benefits Of Heat Training And Adaptation In Running With Clayton Young | Sponsored By CORE

Transcript

The Benefits Of Heat Training And Adaptation In Running With Clayton Young | Sponsored By CORE · The CITIUS MAG Podcast | A Running + Track and Field Show

0:02
Welcome back everybody to the City of Smack podcast.
0:05
I'm your host, Chris Shabbas, and today's episode is a unique
0:07
one because we are going to be diving into a topic that has
0:10
become one of the biggest trends in endurance sports over the
0:13
last couple years. That's heat training.
0:16
So if you've been following professional running, you've
0:18
probably heard athletes talk about sauna sessions, treadmill
0:21
runs, and. Extra layers or?
0:24
Intentionally training in the hottest.
0:25
Parts of the day. Maybe you've wondered whether
0:27
that's actually doing anything if you're training for a
0:30
marathon that's going to be run in 50 or 60° weather.
0:33
Well, today we're going to answer all of those questions.
0:36
Joining me is my good friend, Olympian and one of the smartest
0:40
marathoners in the sport when it comes to training, Clayton
0:43
Young. Long before heat training became
0:45
a mainstream talking point in running, Clayton was already
0:48
experimenting with it back in 2019 when he was at BYU.
0:52
In fact, he'll tell a story about how it helped him win a
0:55
national title. It's a fun one, but it's also a
0:57
reminder that there's a right way and a wrong way to approach
1:01
heat training. And that's where today's episode
1:04
partner comes in. This conversation is brought to
1:06
you by Core and the new Core 2 body temperature sensor.
1:10
Instead of guessing whether you've done enough or maybe too
1:13
much heat, meaning, the core sensor lets you monitor your
1:16
body temperature in real time, so you know exactly when you're
1:19
in the optimal zone for adaptation and when it's time to
1:22
back off. We'll get into how Clayton uses
1:24
it ahead of major races, why it's changed the way he
1:27
approaches heat acclamation, and why this kind of data has made
1:30
heat training much safer and much more.
1:32
Accessible for everyday runners. We also get into why heat
1:36
training isn't just about preparing for hot races.
1:39
The psychological adaptations, increased plasma volumes,
1:42
improvement in cardiovascular efficiency, recovery benefits,
1:45
and even gains that can translate to VO2 Max.
1:48
All those nerdy things can pay off whether your gold race ends
1:51
up being in 45° or 85°. So if you're interested in
1:55
trying the new Core 2 body temperature sensor yourself, CDs
1:59
Mag podcast listeners can get 10% off with the code
2:02
cds10@corebodytemp.com. We'll have the link and all the
2:06
details waiting for you in the show notes.
2:08
And with that, let's get into it.
2:10
Here's my conversation with Olympic marathoner Clayton
2:12
Young. All right, bonus episode of the
2:17
CGS Mag podcast sponsored by Core because we want to talk all
2:22
about. Heat training, there's probably
2:24
people. Listening to this while they're
2:25
out on a run just in it's the summertime, so getting those
2:30
long runs in for their fall marathons or their fall races
2:33
that they've got coming up. And so decided to bring on one
2:37
of the experts when it comes to training in the heat and who has
2:40
put himself through the ringer for.
2:43
Heat training. For the Paris Olympics, the 2025
2:46
World Championships, so I'm joined by my good friend Clayton
2:49
Young, who's also a core supported runner.
2:52
So, Clayton, thanks for joining me.
2:55
Thanks for having me. Thanks for honoring me as, as
2:57
someone that's an expert in this field, I don't know.
3:00
I think it's whether it's by trial and error or whether it's
3:02
by experience, I don't know. I've I've dealt with it all but.
3:07
It feels like heat training and like the has been just sort of
3:12
so much more mainstream in cycling and triathlon for so
3:16
many years. But over the last couple of
3:18
years for sure, it's definitely picked up with running.
3:21
Why do you think that's been the case?
3:24
I think running does follow cycling often and see, OK,
3:28
everybody's sees what cycling or triathlon is doing and they're
3:31
like, oh, that should, we should maybe experiment with that with
3:33
running. What's ironic to me is like I've
3:36
been implementing heat training since like 2019 and it was
3:41
before the in the NCAA, Austin, TX, like hot, humid race, NCAA
3:45
10K. That's like when I started my
3:48
heat train journey. And you're right, like there
3:50
wasn't a lot about it. And in fact, I was doing a lot
3:53
of my own research and I was talking a lot with my former
3:56
teammate Rory Linklater about it.
3:57
And then like once all of this started kind of blowing up over
4:00
the last, you know, two or three years, something that I've kind
4:04
of been doing already pretty regularly, it was kind of cool
4:07
to see like the science and the data kind of follow, not that
4:11
like there's always been science and data behind it.
4:12
I will say that there's been lots of studies for years and
4:14
years, but I don't know, like you said, it's become more
4:17
mainstream And, and what's even better is like you can now like
4:22
collab with other people on it, like kind of get their right
4:24
take on how they like to approach it.
4:26
So you see that a lot more even on, on straw and stuff.
4:29
People will post their heat training sessions.
4:30
And then what's even better is like you can track it now better
4:34
than ever, just with all the the devices and the data and the
4:37
core temp sensor and things like that.
4:39
So yeah, why is it coming? Yeah, we follow cycling.
4:45
What do you think is one of the biggest misconceptions when it
4:47
comes to people wanting to get into it to heat training?
4:51
I think a bit more because right now, obviously we're in the
4:54
summer and so people are putting themselves through it, but I
5:00
don't. I think one of the things that
5:01
people fall into the trap of thinking is that it's only for
5:04
hot races. And so when it comes to your
5:07
fall marathon, you're hoping for cooler conditions and all that
5:09
kind of stuff, But actually like the work that you do put in
5:13
during this time right now is going to pay off dividends for
5:17
when you tackle those cooler, perfect temperature races. 100%
5:21
yeah. The the science is showing even
5:24
more so like no matter if the race is hot or cold, like a lot
5:28
of the benefits translate no matter what.
5:30
And that's because the benefits don't just apply to like what
5:33
are called heat shock proteins, which do help you run in the
5:36
heat and humidity, but they're also just things like your blood
5:39
volume, your VO2 Max, your heart rate, like your plasma, your
5:45
ability to recover your. It's like a, it's like, if you
5:49
read the list, you'd be like, why wouldn't I be doing this
5:52
both with like sauna, which is like a passive heat training and
5:56
like, you know, normal, like, like it's layering up, which is
6:01
like an active heat training. But yeah, you, you just like
6:03
read the data, you read the signs, you see what it does.
6:06
And yeah, a lot of that translates to hot races,
6:10
probably more so, but cool races just as effective just as
6:14
effectively. And it's interesting because
6:15
like sometimes when I'm, I'm getting ready for a race, you're
6:19
kind of rolling the dice. It's like, OK, is this race
6:21
going to be hot or cold? Especially like these late
6:23
summer races or, or even early fall races?
6:27
It's like, Will, is this going to be a hot and humid Chicago
6:31
Marathon or is this going to be a freezing cold Chicago
6:34
Marathon? And you never really know.
6:35
But like, sometimes there's just safety knowing that like, no
6:39
matter the weather, I've prepared accordingly.
6:42
And those benefits are not a waste, right?
6:44
They're going to translate no matter what.
6:46
What was that you liked about it when it came to just sort of
6:49
like the the sauna sessions, the running in the suit, like all
6:53
that kind of stuff that work you you did from the Paris Olympics
6:56
that you then still applied for the New York City Marathon that
6:59
you ran later on that fall? And even just sort of.
7:02
You know, over the last couple years, even training for Boston,
7:05
like when people look on Strava, you and the likes of like,
7:08
Connor are still getting in the sauna for 20-30 minutes
7:12
sometimes. Like after, you know, after
7:15
doubling occasionally, Yeah. Yeah, like I, it was early in my
7:21
career just kind of something that I would target for those
7:23
hot and humid races. And so kind of like I said, like
7:26
the first time I ever really experimented it with it was for
7:29
that Austin test, Austin, TX race in June.
7:33
And like we were just essentially reading the
7:37
literature and, and being like, OK, like, you know, they say if
7:41
you go into the sauna right after your runs, your Corbati
7:45
temperature is already pretty high.
7:46
And so if you can keep that elevated through the sauna
7:48
session for at least 20 to 30 minutes that, you know, you'll
7:53
be ready for race day. And and then it was always like
7:55
kind of a breath of fresh air after, you know, the season was
7:58
over. Like, oh, gosh, now we don't
8:00
have dishonor. We don't have to layer up or we
8:01
don't have to wear long sleeves on hot track session days or
8:05
like, wear sweats and things. You know, it's always the worst
8:09
when you're on a run and you're the only guy that's layered up
8:12
in clothing because you're the guy that's getting ready for the
8:14
hot and humid race. But now it's become more and
8:17
more of a staple like as, as more research has come out, like
8:21
kind of like we said before, it's not just for hot and humid
8:25
races. You know, there's so many more
8:27
life, even like lifestyle benefits from like, I can't
8:31
remember the last time I was sick just because of the amount
8:33
of time I was like, because of how much Isauna or, you know, my
8:39
immune system is just really, really strong.
8:41
And, and so now it's become kind of a daily thing.
8:44
And so probably on a good normal week that I'm here in Utah, I'm
8:49
probably signing four or five times a week.
8:52
And then as I get closer to race day, sometimes I'll do even like
8:56
a, a post long run, like 6 day sauna session.
9:00
And yeah, a lot of that is obviously to get the benefits.
9:03
A lot of that is to maintain the benefits.
9:05
And then a lot of that is I think my psychology towards
9:08
like, it's the best thing from my immune system going into race
9:11
week so I don't get sick. The core website has a ton of
9:15
like blog posts and studies that they link out to from research
9:20
over over the years. Some of the scientific studies,
9:23
I guess have gone on to show that like, you know, intensive
9:26
heat training, you know, for some athletes can experience a
9:30
three to 6% increase in VO2 Max and power.
9:34
You're one of those guys who likes to measure some of those
9:36
metrics. What have you found?
9:38
We're not in the lab every week doing the O2 Max testing.
9:41
So it's not like I can really see, you know, exact numbers on
9:46
on what heat training has done for me.
9:48
What I have found and what I think really is amazing.
9:52
And I guess I'll say this as well, like there are so many
9:56
factors that go into my fitness, whether that's mileage,
9:59
workouts, nutrition, sleep, heat training.
10:03
Like this is just another tool and the tool belt and something,
10:06
another lever that I pull in order to be able to get ready
10:11
from like a heat standpoint for races.
10:12
But more so now that I, now that I understand it more like just
10:17
from like a, a cardiovascular output, you know, you just
10:24
simply look at the science like you do these heat sessions, you
10:27
become extremely dehydrated. Your body's like, shoot, we need
10:31
more liquid. So plasma goes through the roof.
10:34
And so you've got a lot more plasma in your blood that
10:37
dilutes the amount of red blood cells that is in, in essentially
10:41
your blood. And so then your body's like,
10:43
shoot, we need more red blood cells.
10:45
And so then it says, Hey, let's make a bunch more red blood
10:47
cells. And, you know, that's the
10:49
science behind it. And so it's like, oh, of course,
10:51
that's not that. Of course, that's going to help
10:52
me. Not only for the hot and humid
10:55
races, because I know I have more plasma, I'm not going to
10:57
get this dehydrated as easy. I'm going to sweat better, I'm
10:59
going to cool my body better, but then I'm also going to have
11:02
all these red blood cells to like help me out in in carrying
11:06
all that oxygen and to racing faster.
11:10
So like have I seen 3 to 6% difference in my VO2 Max?
11:13
I have no idea. Do I feel a lot more confident
11:18
racing in hot and humid conditions?
11:19
Yes, like, and I think the thing that's told me the most was my
11:23
very first experiment with it. Like when I go back to that NCAA
11:26
10K when I was really intentional heat training, I was
11:30
the only guy in the entire field that didn't grab a water cup.
11:33
I don't know why didn't grab a water cup.
11:37
And like we got with 400 meters to go.
11:39
And like I was the guy that that took it like that, you know,
11:42
sent it and decided to let everybody else respond.
11:45
And like, I just handled the heat and humidity better than in
11:49
than everybody. And, you know, I had training
11:51
partners that also did sauna training.
11:53
So not to say that like, I don't know if I did it better or if
11:58
I'm just naturally more acclimated to heat and humid,
12:03
hot and humid conditions, but that's when I was sold on it.
12:06
And I've, I've just carried it through ever since in my
12:08
training. But yeah.
12:11
And what's amazing too is like that three to 6% of, you know,
12:16
VO2 Max increase is going to contribute to like 2 to 4% in
12:20
just efficiency and running in general and just running fast.
12:24
And so yeah, you, you think of like, OK, I can either pick up a
12:27
pair of super shoes that, you know, increase my ability to run
12:31
fast by 23456 percent depending on how you respond to super
12:35
shoes, or I can do some heat training.
12:38
Like it's almost like poor man's altitude or, or poor man's super
12:41
shoes. You can get those benefits as
12:43
well. And and they all compound.
12:46
So historically, I guess like the one of the toughest parts to
12:49
all of this was the fact that you couldn't really necessarily
12:52
measure it exactly. So thinking back to just sort of
12:55
2019, like how are you tracking that?
12:57
And then how does you know something like you know this
13:01
core sensor like come in and just change the way you operate
13:05
with it? Yeah, that's, that's a great
13:08
question. And 'cause I have had some very
13:11
close calls with with heat acquimization.
13:20
One of the interesting things going back to that 2019 season,
13:23
we were like 10 days out from the national meet, the NCAA
13:27
meet, and I was getting in one of my last sauna sessions in.
13:33
And at that time we were just measuring the time.
13:37
Like I wasn't even wearing a watch.
13:38
It was just like, OK, you know, the literature says, you know,
13:42
25 to 35 minutes. And of course, me being
13:44
hardcore, like, I'm like 35 or bust kind of mentality.
13:48
And there was this one day I was in there and I was sweating it
13:51
out after a big workout. And all of a sudden all these
13:54
football players compiling in and they start like, just
13:58
dousing the heater with water. And so not only is it really hot
14:01
in there, but it's getting really humid in there and I'm
14:04
just like dying. And I don't have the guts to
14:06
tell the, the football players to like, yo, can you just chill
14:08
it on, on dumping water on, on the heater.
14:12
And I, I hit my 35 minutes and I get out of the sauna and I
14:17
immediately black out and I hit the ground and I, and I come
14:22
too. And I'm like, OK, like that was
14:23
kind of scary, but I'm OK and nobody noticed.
14:25
And I was like, cool, like my pride is safe.
14:28
But then I I walk like another 100 meters, 200 meters, and I
14:33
get out of the locker room and I start walking towards our locker
14:38
room, the student athlete locker room.
14:41
And I only make it a couple 100 meters before I black out again.
14:45
And as I'm blocking out, I see a chair nearby.
14:47
And so I go to sit down in the chair and I don't make it and I
14:51
fall and I hit my head against this pole that's by the indoor
14:55
track essentially. And so then I come to and
14:58
there's this, there's this person standing over me and
15:01
they're like, are you OK? Are you OK?
15:02
And I'm like, I'm fine. And my head is split open and
15:05
it's bleeding. And she's like, I'm going to
15:07
call the EM TS. And I was like, don't call the
15:08
EM TS. Like please don't call the EM TS
15:10
because like the last thing I want to do 10 days out from
15:12
nationals is like, go spend the night in the hospital or go do
15:15
this. Like I'm just like, I'm a, I'm a
15:17
no nonsense, no drama sort of person.
15:19
I'm like, please don't just just don't call anybody.
15:21
Like I'm fine, we're good. And she's like, no, I think I'm
15:23
going to call the EM TS. And luckily my teammate Connor
15:26
McMillan walks out and he sees me and her and he's like, he's
15:31
like, I'll take it from here, no problem.
15:33
Like I got him, like I'll take him to the training room.
15:34
And I was like, oh, thank goodness.
15:35
So I put my arm around him and we start walking towards the
15:39
training room and I make it only another couple 100 meters and I
15:43
just totally black out again. And he has to like lower me to
15:46
the floor. And that time I learned my
15:48
lesson. I was like, OK, I'm going to
15:49
stay on the ground. Like I'm, I'm staying on the
15:51
ground until like I get some fluids in me or some fuel.
15:55
And so like, that was like my first real incident with like
15:58
taking it too far right. And you know, luckily, like I
16:03
was totally fine. You know, I, I got a butterfly
16:08
Band-Aid on my head. It cleaned up fine.
16:10
I convinced coach to let me do the workout two days later and
16:14
like I went to nationals and I won the national championship.
16:17
So like, it all paid off. Like I got the benefits.
16:20
I don't know if that's what it takes to to win a national
16:22
championship, but that's what I did.
16:24
And, and like it all worked out, but like, obviously that was not
16:28
safe. Obviously that was not, you
16:30
know, I, I pushed it too far. And so like the beauty of
16:33
something like the core body temperature sensor is that it
16:36
does have these zones of strain, right?
16:40
Like, and so if you're in one or zone 2, you're kind of in a safe
16:44
zone. You ideally want to get into
16:46
zone 3 if you want to really see some benefits.
16:48
But it once you get above zone 3, like that's when they say,
16:52
hey, like your call it quits. And so if you can really track
16:56
what zone you're in and that goes directly to your watch and
16:59
you can see exactly what zone you're in, whether that's in the
17:02
sauna or on the bike or layered up on a run.
17:04
Like that's, that's when you know that you're not overcooking
17:08
yourself. And that's something that I've
17:11
actually seen in future seasons. You know, I've, I've kind of
17:14
overcooked myself. And I think when I think back to
17:17
the World Championships, you know, in Tokyo, hot humid
17:22
conditions, one of the best things was having the core body
17:27
temperature sensor. So I didn't overcook myself in
17:29
training. So I didn't overcook myself in,
17:32
in my heat optimization training, you could say.
17:36
So, yeah, that's, that's what's the beauty of it really.
17:39
It's for us freaks. We we have something to tell us
17:42
to stop. There's a lot of, you know, data
17:45
and the way that the app works and the sensor works, like they
17:49
convert it all into some very, you know, comprehensive metrics
17:54
that, you know, overtime, I guess with more use while you're
17:57
using the app, while you're using the sensor, like you just
17:59
get more used to. So now with walk me through just
18:03
sort of like how you, you know, live by some of these metrics.
18:06
So that's the heat strain index, the heat training load, heat
18:10
adaptation score. Like what are you looking for
18:12
when you, you know, look at each one of those?
18:16
Yeah, I think the the thing that I'm looking at the most in
18:19
training are those zones, right? Like trying to get up to Zone 3
18:22
as quickly as possible, but then not over overdo it, like just to
18:26
try to stay in that zone for a certain amount of time.
18:30
And that's like, that's where that contributes directly to
18:37
like your heat adaptation score, which is like a percentage from
18:40
like zero to 100%. And what's really cool about it
18:43
is it it and almost frustrating. It like almost gamifies it,
18:47
right? Because you're like, oh man,
18:49
like I, I want to be 100% heat acclimated going into my race,
18:54
right? And, and so you'll get these big
18:56
benefits, so these big gains from either these passive or
18:59
active sessions that you do, but then you miss one day and it
19:03
like slips, you know, 2, three, 4% and you're like, Dang, it,
19:06
like I'm, I'm falling behind. So it kind of gamifies it in a
19:11
fun way, but then it also tells you like once you're heat
19:14
acclimated, you're acclimated. And I think the two things that
19:17
are much like training, which are pretty incredible is you
19:23
adapt way quicker than you think.
19:26
Like it is amazing that even like with four or five sessions,
19:30
you know, you'll get probably 6070% of the benefits.
19:35
Now, granted, OK, there's different benefits from a heat
19:38
acclimation standpoint, which is like, you know, plasma heat
19:43
shock proteins, like you'll get most of those benefits when it
19:46
comes to like the blood that takes a little bit more time.
19:51
But that being said, like you can get a, if you're having a
19:53
hot and humid race, you can put in like 3456 sessions and still
19:59
get a lot of benefits. And even by day 10, you've
20:01
almost gotten nearly 100% of the benefits when it comes to heat
20:04
acclimation. And the other thing like yes you
20:07
do lose it quick but it usually takes.
20:10
Much like training, it takes a little bit longer than you
20:12
expect and you can hold on to it longer than you think, which is
20:16
really cool. So once you are heat acclimated
20:19
and maybe you're in your peak sessions of training and you
20:21
don't want to like ZAP your body as much if you do only like one
20:25
or two sessions a week or maybe 3, like you can hold on to a lot
20:29
of those benefits without losing them, which is pretty cool.
20:32
So that's, that's something that I'm looking into as well.
20:35
And, and that goes directly into this idea of like this metric of
20:40
like your heat adaptation score from zero to 100%, right?
20:44
You know, getting it up to 100% but then trying to maintain it
20:48
in some range up as close as you can without psyching yourself
20:52
out. What's your score right now?
20:56
You know, honestly, I was in Peru for 10 days.
21:00
I've been traveling quite a bit and so I let the score slide.
21:03
And so I, I don't know what it is currently, but I, I've, I've
21:08
signed four times this week and it's been really hot and my
21:11
double S have been really hot. And so it's climbing.
21:14
And honestly, we're so far out too that like, it's not
21:18
something that I'm super dialed into right now anyway, Yeah.
21:22
On race day, or maybe not necessarily sometimes in the
21:26
marathon 'cause you're just focused on the competition and
21:29
reacting to the moves around you.
21:30
But you know, if you are wearing this during a race, it's
21:35
collecting all the data that then becomes useful later on and
21:38
where you can pinpoint, you know, where things may have, you
21:41
know, gone wrong or areas for improvement.
21:43
But, you know, in regards to pacing during races or maybe
21:47
even some during some of, you know, ice stones like crazy long
21:51
run workouts that he puts you through.
21:53
Like are there instances where you rely just sort of on some of
21:57
the data from the sensor? Yeah, that's it's kind of
22:00
interesting. I think my knowledge of core by
22:02
temperature sensors approach also messes her mixes with what
22:08
information that we have gotten from the US Olympic Committee.
22:14
Like we got a very, very rigorous study from a guy named
22:18
Randy Wilbur. He's incredible.
22:21
He's the one that's over a lot of the heat acclimation and
22:24
altitude training camps in Samaritz in preparation for all
22:28
the Diamond Leagues and then the Paris Olympics and then also in
22:30
Yunumaru in Japan getting ready for the World Championships.
22:34
And what's interesting is like something that he really
22:38
emphasized is for your key sessions, like you want your key
22:42
sessions to be as optimal as possible for performance,
22:51
meaning like, you know, shed the layers, like stay as cool as
22:55
possible. Like that's not the time to be
22:57
getting heat acclimated. That's the time to be getting
22:59
fit. And so in those like big
23:02
sessions with coach eistone and even going into the Paris
23:05
Olympics and, and like Tokyo, like it, I was never pushing it
23:10
from a heat standpoint. And those sessions like that's
23:13
when you're trying to get the leg turnover, That's when you're
23:14
trying to go the distance. That's when you're trying to hit
23:16
pace and that's more important at that time.
23:20
What I like to do is I like to use my heat training either
23:22
passively, which is in the sauna, or I like to use it on,
23:26
on those like double sessions. So for example, if I had a
23:30
really hard session that morning, you know, in this
23:33
principle of keeping my easy days easy and my hard days hard,
23:37
I like to hit my second hard session that afternoon from a
23:41
heat standpoint. So morning session, big volume,
23:44
big mileage, you know, fatigue, mile repeats, mile repeats, long
23:47
runs, you know, whatever coach has prescribed.
23:50
And then, and then that afternoon I come back and I hit
23:52
it hard from a heat standpoint. And so that's when I'm layering
23:55
up with either the core body temps to or with sweats or, and
24:00
sweats actually is what I usually do.
24:02
And I, I'll get on the treadmill and I'll look at my zone and
24:05
I'll try, I'll try to get to zone 3.
24:08
And like that's how I, I implement heat, heat training
24:13
into my protocol. And so that way, you know,
24:16
Tuesdays, Thursdays, big hard sessions, big heat sessions,
24:20
Monday, Wednesday, Fridays are probably more moderate.
24:22
I'm signing 5-6 days throughout that.
24:26
But that's how how I approach it.
24:28
How's it different for shorter distance races, half marathon,
24:32
5K10K? Or do you just kind of see it as
24:35
like, all right, this is helping everything?
24:38
I for sure believe that it helps everything.
24:40
Obviously there's maybe some science that shows that
24:43
especially for those races that you'll overheat, which are going
24:46
to be the marathoners. You know, you're on, you're out
24:50
in the sun, you're getting dehydrated more, you're not
24:53
getting in as much fluids. The conditions can be pretty
24:57
tricky. Like obviously it's going to
25:00
learn more towards that endurance space.
25:03
But I will say, like the hottest race that I have ever ran has
25:07
been the Falmouth road race. Like it gets so hot and humid
25:10
for these East Coast races in the summer.
25:13
And, and the hands down like I'm, I'm positive.
25:17
In fact, I get kind of nervous a month out from that race.
25:20
I'm like, I got to get my heat training dialed in because you
25:23
know, you come out of the woods in Falmouth and you're on that,
25:26
you know, that beachfront and you just get cooked and it's so
25:29
hot and you're moving so fast. And for sure for those shorter
25:32
races, like your ability to push is higher, like you're running
25:38
faster, you're you can reach those limits even more so.
25:41
And so I definitely, there's definitely places there's,
25:46
sorry, there's definitely a place for this and shorter races
25:49
as well. Where do you scale up or down in
25:53
terms of your heat training when it comes to OK you?
25:56
Know. A Chicago or New York or one of
26:00
these fall races is going to be cooler.
26:02
So do you spend just the same amount of time as if you were
26:06
racing something like Paris or Tokyo or Falmouth where you know
26:11
those are, you know, you know those are going to be warm
26:13
because they're in the summer? Or like, are there tiny tweaks
26:18
that you make for fall races 'cause that's, you know, if
26:20
people are picking one of these things up and that's what
26:22
they're going to be getting ready for, they're not
26:25
necessarily trying to do the same exact thing for a summer
26:28
race. Yeah, yeah.
26:30
I think the biggest shift in my mind between whether you're
26:34
training for, you know, a hot and humid race, a guaranteed hot
26:39
and humid race and like, and then just maybe like training to
26:42
get the cardiovascular benefits no matter if it's hot or humid
26:47
or cool, is your ability to run in the heat and humidity.
26:54
So kind of to, to back up, like I do think you can get a lot of,
27:03
you can feel pretty confident on race day through passive heat
27:06
training, meaning doing your sauna sessions and then just not
27:11
wearing a core suit or, or, or sweat suit or, you know, not
27:16
actually running in the heat and humidity.
27:18
And I would say that's OK for these like cooler races, these
27:21
more guaranteed cooler races. But, you know, in some ways, I
27:25
think getting ready for these hot and humid races is
27:28
psychological. And so running, you know,
27:33
drenched in sweat, like being uncomfortable, having no
27:38
airflow, like feeling the heat and humidity while moving and
27:43
not just sitting in a sauna, is very different.
27:46
And that's, I think the preparation that I needed for a
27:49
race like Paris or a race like Tokyo.
27:52
And so for most races, like I'm OK just doing it passively,
27:56
doing it through the sauna. But like for those races that I
27:58
know I'm going to feel uncomfortable, that I'm going to
28:01
feel drenched, that I'm going to feel dehydrated, that I'm going
28:03
to feel like I'm swimming through humidity essentially.
28:08
Like that's where I feel like it's very important actually to
28:10
feel what it's like to run in those conditions.
28:13
And so whether that you're simulating that with a core suit
28:16
or you're like actually training in the heat and humidity,
28:19
throwing on a sweat suit, like I think that's where I would make
28:22
tweaks between those kind of races.
28:24
You coach a lot of normal folks through, you know, your
28:28
accomplice training app where some of these people might be
28:31
out there 3 1/2 hours, four hours.
28:34
What's the starting point for them when it comes to just sort
28:37
of like if you, if you say, hey, we're going to start with some,
28:40
you know, heat training, you know, and they happen to have
28:44
one of these sensors like what's, you know, baby steps as
28:47
to get getting them into it. Where do you begin?
28:51
Yeah, it's, it's interesting because, yeah, there's people on
28:54
the compost are from all over the world.
28:56
And so it is interesting like we prescribe these places, we try
28:59
to dial in what they need for the training with where they're
29:02
at. But it also is dependent on,
29:05
yeah, where they're training. Like there's this guy that's
29:07
training out in Florida right now and he's like, man, these
29:09
paces are so tough. And I'm like, well, let me tell
29:12
you the science of what you're getting.
29:13
Like I try to sell it as this idea of like, this is a good
29:17
thing, right? Like you're going to be so
29:19
tough. You're going to get so many
29:20
benefits. You're going to be, yeah, like
29:24
your heat training is baked in essentially.
29:26
You're going to be so much better for race day.
29:27
And it's, you can kind of hang on to that mentally name that
29:30
it's going to be cool. You know, he's, he's going out
29:32
to, to race in Sydney, Australia.
29:37
And he's like, Oh yeah, it's going to be way cooler than what
29:39
I'm running in Florida. You have to be careful with that
29:42
mentality. Sometimes it cause the weather
29:44
can sneak up on you, but if there's kind of a guarantee or
29:48
at least I don't know, most weather beats Florida weather.
29:52
But like, yeah, what are the baby steps to that?
29:54
I think 1 is just one is just adjusting pace, like recognizing
29:59
that that heat and humidity does make a difference and like
30:03
having a little bit of grace with your body and kind of just
30:05
like as if you'd go up to altitude and adjust paces.
30:08
I think there's definitely a hot and humid pace adjustment that
30:11
needs to take place. And then I think there's also
30:15
like this kind of building phase.
30:16
And so people look at the literature and they're like, oh
30:18
man, I got to go 3035 minutes in the sauna or I have to wear this
30:21
sensor every day or do this every day.
30:23
And I would say no, like you really, it's something that you
30:27
want to slowly build up to. And so I was even in the sauna
30:31
with some guys yesterday and today from some guys that from
30:35
BYU that, you know, I've just gotten off their mission and
30:37
they're just starting to like get back in shape and things.
30:40
And like they're going 15 minutes, they're going 18
30:42
minutes. And I think that's plenty.
30:44
And, and your body will adapt. And so baby steps every other
30:47
day sort of thing, just like you would increase mileage now.
30:51
Like I can take time off of a sauna and come back to the sauna
30:54
and like I crush the sauna, to be honest.
30:57
Like I'm, and I don't know if it's mental or physical.
31:02
It's probably a little bit of both.
31:03
But it's just like mileage, like just like training, it's
31:06
something you have to build up to.
31:08
And so if I was writing a protocol for somebody, this is
31:12
not something that I write normally for people, but it
31:14
would be like, yeah, 15 minutes every other day for the first
31:17
week. OK, then let's go 18 minutes,
31:19
then let's go 20 minutes, and then let's start doing it every
31:24
day for 20 minutes, and then let's go to 25 anyway, just like
31:28
as if you build mileage. But that benefits do come
31:32
quicker than you think. You big talker in the sauna.
31:36
Oh, yeah. In fact, I've been trying to
31:38
listen. You're the perfect guy to talk
31:40
to about this. We've been thinking we should
31:43
start. A podcast Podcast in the.
31:45
Sauna and that the podcast should only last as long as you
31:50
can last in the sauna right but The funny thing is we joke that
31:54
like you know me Connor Mance Casey Clinger, right Jared Ward.
31:59
The problem is, is that like people just don't have coherent
32:03
thoughts all the time, especially those last five
32:05
minutes. And so it really go off the
32:06
walls quick or people just go silent.
32:09
So it's like pretty soon it's just a podcast of Clayton
32:11
talking, right? It's like, OK, guys, I guess
32:14
the, the yeah, the session is done.
32:17
And yeah, I mean, you'd only get a 25 minute pod maybe, or 30
32:23
minute pod. And but I think it'd be kind of
32:24
fun. And so I've thought about it
32:26
actually. Like, you know, our best
32:28
conversations are in the sauna, to be honest, because, yeah,
32:32
it's just you and the boys. It's almost as much
32:36
psychological getting ready for the championship style of racing
32:40
or the big marathons as it is physical.
32:43
Like, that's where Connor and I dream.
32:45
That's where we talk about our goals.
32:47
That's where we talk about, like, what we want to do as an
32:50
athlete, what we want to do representing Team USAI.
32:53
Remember specific conversations about that.
32:55
I remember specific conversations about, you know,
32:58
setting the American record and like a lot of my big
33:02
conversations with Connor on, on what we want to do in this sport
33:07
happen in the sauna. There we go.
33:09
Well, maybe that's an idea for us to present a core to see if
33:13
they want to sponsor a sauna podcast where it maybe it's not
33:18
necessarily just the whole raw session, but we take the the
33:23
best of from a given week and compile it into an episode for
33:27
people to consider. And it'd be cool like if we did
33:30
like a data shout out like every, every 10 minutes, like,
33:34
OK, what's everybody's heart rate?
33:36
Do a a round table and then like OK, what's everybody's core core
33:40
body temp or skin temp right then?
33:43
You might have an idea here. Yeah.
33:45
There we go. Well, Clayton, I appreciate you
33:48
jumping on to help people understand the importance of
33:53
heat training a little bit better.
33:54
And if they refer to the show notes, they can see the special
33:58
offer for Cities Mag podcast listeners to get their hands on
34:01
one of the core body sensors. And yeah, I've been testing it
34:06
out myself. And to your point, just sort of
34:08
like where, you know, now when there are hot days, it's like, I
34:13
want to go outside for even just a little bit so I can get my
34:16
score up. And so there's that sort of
34:19
gamifying that also happens. You're like, I could just go on
34:22
the treadmill, but you're like, but my score will go up if I
34:26
gotten, you know, put myself through a session in 90° heat.
34:30
So it's been fun. But Clayton, I appreciate you
34:34
doing this. Thanks, Chris.
34:35
Thanks for having me. All right, that's a wrap on
34:40
today's episode. Thanks for listening, for the
34:42
time, the curiosity and for making this show part of your
34:45
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34:49
Jasmine Fair and to everyone behind the scenes who helps make
34:51
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35:08
Thanks again for listening.