Latest / The ACL Athlete Podcast / 018 | Ibrahim Ugradar - Semi-Professional Soccer Player and 5-Months Post-Op ACL Reconstruction

Transcript

018 | Ibrahim Ugradar - Semi-Professional Soccer Player and 5-Months Post-Op ACL Reconstruction · The ACL Athlete Podcast

• 0:19
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome everyone to the ACL Athlete Podcast.
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_00: This is the podcast where we talk about everything related to the ACL, whether that's the injury itself, the rehab process, return to sport, and more.
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_00: I'm your host, Dr.
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_00: Robbie Patel, performance physical therapist and coach.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_00: Between myself and fellow guests and experts, you'll learn through the lens of the patient, the healthcare professional, and the coach.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_00: The goal of this podcast is to equip you, the athlete, with the education to make the best informed decision about your care and your ACL journey.
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks for joining.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_00: Now let's dive into today's episode.
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_00: What's up, guys, and welcome back to the ACL Athlete Podcast.
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_00: This is your host, Robbie Patel, and today we have guest Ibrahim Ugrada.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_00: Goes by Eeve, right?
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's me.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_00: Cool, cool.
• 1:19
  SPEAKER_00: Um uh Eevee is a goalkeeper for Bayt Squad, a semi-professional team in England.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_00: He is now five months post op ACL, and he is looking to make a comeback in the next year.
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_02: Yep.
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_00: Ibrahim, thank you so much for being here and welcome to the show.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you for having me on.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_00: I've been looking forward to this.
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, man.
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_00: I know we've been we've been talking.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_00: So Eevee and I connected via Instagram, and you know, we've been able to kind of watch his journey unfold.
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_00: Um, we've just uh been able to chat about his story and the things that he's been going through.
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_00: So we thought it'd be a good idea to bring him on.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_01: 100%, man.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_01: I've been looking forward to this.
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_01: I've watched your podcast or listened to your podcast, and they've been a great learning curve for a while.
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_01: I've been in my ACL rehab process.
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, thanks, man.
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks for listening.
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_00: So, Evie, first off, do you mind sharing with our audience a little bit about your background?
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_00: So, how you got into football, um, as we call it soccer in the US, uh, but how you got into that and just your background overall?
• 2:25
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so I started playing football from quite a young age, like I'd say like eight, nine, which is not that young in England.
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_01: Like you get kids playing from like two to three.
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so yeah, I started playing football, um, just started playing out like grassroots Sunday League, and I've just started realizing from like the age of 13, 14 that I'm actually quite good at this sport.
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_01: So I started taking to the next level, um, playing for like my county side, which is like a very big team to play for at your age, and then I started getting recognized by professional clubs, and it kind of just went on from there.
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_01: So I was I've been at a few professional clubs.
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_01: Um, it got to like 18, 19.
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I was at a very big Premier League club in England called West Ham on trial.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I didn't get signed, and um a few weeks later, I went into a non-league side, um, which is like semi-professional in England.
• 3:19
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I played my first game.
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_01: I had scouts watching me.
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_01: I played amazing.
• 3:25
  SPEAKER_01: Um, we played against a higher team, and I played so good that scouts were calling my agent saying, Oh, we got professional trials for him.
• 3:33
  SPEAKER_01: I was over the moon, and the next day I played for um my other team and tore my ACL.
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_01: So, yeah, it was it was the worst timing ever.
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_01: So I think everything happens for a reason, but right at the point at that point I was drained, like I couldn't believe it.
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so yeah.
• 3:52
  SPEAKER_00: So tell me, how did you how did it happen?
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_00: So replay that story for us.
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_00: How do you because I'm sure you remember, or did you black it out, or do you remember all the details?
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_01: I remember everything.
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_00: So tell us about the details.
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so originally um I went up to catch across and I went down to the floor to waste time, and someone sat on my knee, or like they just landed on my knee, and I just knew something was wrong.
• 4:17
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't hear the pop.
• 4:19
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and then so I went to the hospital straight away, and they told me um you tore your ACL straight away.
• 4:25
  SPEAKER_01: And they they done an X-ray, they didn't even do an MRI.
• 4:29
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and then I went privately to do an MRI, and the results came back as a partial tear.
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_01: So I thought, okay, cool, a few months of rehab.
• 4:37
  SPEAKER_01: I wasn't very educated on the injury, so I thought, okay, a few months of rehab, I'll be back playing.
• 4:42
  SPEAKER_01: So I done a few months of rehab, not properly, like I didn't do it properly at all.
• 4:47
  SPEAKER_01: Um, my type of rehab was just resting, like letting the knee just naturally heal, which I thought would do the job, but it didn't.
• 4:55
  SPEAKER_01: So I went back to playing, played a game, it felt fine, and then I went into training, and someone just went shoulder to shoulder with me, and I kind of just landed my foot.
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_01: So I wouldn't say it was a contact, it was a contact, but it was a non-contact as well.
• 5:09
  SPEAKER_01: So it was a bit of both.
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_01: And that's when I landed my foot, I heard two pops in my knee, and that's when I knew straight away that okay, cool, I didn't do my rehab properly, and this is a complete tear.
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_01: Like straight away, I knew that now I'm out for a good 12 to 16 months.
• 5:24
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, what went through your mind whenever that happened?
• 5:28
  SPEAKER_00: Like it you heard the pops, and everyone who's in this sport who hears about ACL injuries, they yeah, they know that a notorious pop.
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_00: What was going through your mind after that?
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_01: It was just like, why?
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_01: It was just kind of like, why is this happening?
• 5:43
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I thought I've done my rehab correct, I felt I played the game, I felt good.
• 5:47
  SPEAKER_01: And literally, I went to um the hospital, I had my MRI again, and once I got the results, um, I went in with my mum to get the MRI results, and I could see it on the screen.
• 5:59
  SPEAKER_01: And because I'm with my mum, I'm just trying not to tear up.
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_01: Sure, and I just started bursting out crying.
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I was just like, this can't happen to me when everything's going so well, and yeah, it was just I feel like that part was the biggest mental toughness of actually realizing that okay, cool, now I need a surgery.
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_01: Now, like what happens next?
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 6:21
  SPEAKER_00: So then how did that process unfold after you realized okay, my ACL is torn?
• 6:27
  SPEAKER_00: And looking to whether have surgery or not have surgery, what was that process looking like for you?
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_01: Um, well, to be honest, because in England you have free health care, uh it's very good healthcare to an extent, but when you get injuries like this, it's just kind of like let's get on with it, let's just kind of sort his injury out onto the next person.
• 6:51
  SPEAKER_01: So they don't really go into the detail of the injury.
• 6:55
  SPEAKER_01: So I went to my consultation and they said, Yeah, you need a surgery straight away.
• 6:58
  SPEAKER_01: It was never a conversation of do you need a surgery?
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_01: It just said you have a tall ACL, you need to go get surgery.
• 7:05
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so in terms of my surgery, I done my ACL in December 9 um 2019, and I originally got my surgery in December 2020.
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_01: So I waited a whole year for my surgery, which was the biggest that was the biggest mental kind of block for me.
• 7:24
  SPEAKER_01: It's because that whole year um of COVID.
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_01: So COVID originally got my surgery blocked off four times, so I had surgery cancelled four times before I originally got it.
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_01: Um, it got to the point where I was just like, I was still able to walk.
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I didn't really try to run, so I still actually played football while I had my ACL, which people was calling me a madman, like playing football while you had torn ACL.
• 7:47
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 7:47
  SPEAKER_01: So it was it was a bit of a weird one, but for me, it was just like if I can't play football and I'm not getting a surgery, I'm just gonna play football anyway, which was a big mistake.
• 7:57
  SPEAKER_01: So I suggest people, if you're listening to this, you have a torn ACL, don't play, like just it's not worth it because I actually made my injury worse when I got on surgery day.
• 8:07
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, I feel like the weight was the biggest mental toughness for me so far.
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and you know, you bring up a really good point because COVID has thrown this barrier in front of people that was very unexpected.
• 8:23
  SPEAKER_00: And I've talked to so many athletes who had to wait and postpone their surgeries because it's an elective surgery here in the US, so for a very long time, and let's say you're a senior in high school or you're playing in your last year, or you're trying to get a scholarship to the next level, you know, that could be a certain time point that is going to really limit you.
• 8:44
  SPEAKER_00: So that's a really good point that you bring up.
• 8:46
  SPEAKER_00: Um, what would be something that you would say, just in general, with that and with COVID and even some people who are still battling this stuff, what would be advice to them?
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_00: I know you said, you know, wait, uh, don't play on it.
• 9:00
  SPEAKER_00: Is there any other advice that you would give them during this time?
• 9:03
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I feel like one thing that I could have done better was prehab.
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I had a year of waiting for surgery, and my mentality was what's the point of getting it stronger if it's gonna go into surgery and it's just gonna get weaker again?
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_01: But little did I know, prehab is so important to kind of making sure post-surgery your knee's strong, it helps a lot, which I didn't take in consideration.
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_01: If you're still waiting for your surgery, just go to the gym, just do little bits.
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_01: If you have a physio, speak to your physio, see where you can improve.
• 9:36
  SPEAKER_01: But prehab is so important.
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, it's one of the things I even did a podcast on this before, but um, prehab is huge.
• 9:45
  SPEAKER_00: And if you're listening and you're waiting for your surgery, keep training.
• 9:49
  SPEAKER_00: You know, this is gonna be a very big piece to your recovery and being able to train your quadriceps and the rest of that leg is going to be very valuable.
• 9:59
  SPEAKER_00: And most of the times, I the people that I see who are rehabbing or doing the prehab into their surgery, as soon as they get out of surgery, it's like an on-ramp, and they just hit the ground running with uh the rest of the rehab that they're supposed to be starting.
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah.
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_00: So, um, how'd you end up deciding on your graph type?
• 10:20
  SPEAKER_01: Well, my graph type, I didn't really decide it.
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_01: My surgeon kind of said that for your injury, this would be the best graph type for you.
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_01: Um, which I haven't had any issues with it so far.
• 10:33
  SPEAKER_01: You've had to work a lot on my hamstring to get as strong as possible, which we're still working on.
• 10:37
  SPEAKER_01: I'm still only five months post-surgery, but I didn't really have an option with my graft type.
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't really do enough research what which would be the best one.
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_01: So I kind of just had it handed to me, like you're getting a hamstring graft, you're getting a lactina diesis surgery, no questions asked, let's get in a surgery room kind of thing.
• 10:57
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_00: And it's one of those things where it's it's a very difficult question to answer.
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_00: It's not this blanket, okay, you're gonna get a hamstring, and uh that's it.
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, a lot of times it's going down to surgeon's preference, right?
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_00: Which is essentially how you were guided with this, and then um being able to make other factors of like you know, strength and just different components that you're going to be using going forward in the rehab process as well.
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_00: 100%, yeah.
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_00: In terms of your rehab, so now you're sitting at uh five months out, right?
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_00: Yep.
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_00: So how has the rehab process been?
• 11:36
  SPEAKER_00: So you have your surgery and then you start out from there.
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, how has it been?
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_00: How's this road?
• 11:43
  SPEAKER_01: Um, honestly, if we ignore the first six weeks, sure, they've been amazing.
• 11:51
  SPEAKER_01: The first six weeks, my mentality was I just need a surgery.
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't have my physio sorted out for when I had my surgery.
• 11:59
  SPEAKER_01: So, like the first six weeks, I was just literally sitting in bed.
• 12:03
  SPEAKER_01: Like I had no plan of action to get the correct physio.
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_01: Um, it was literally just me kind of just taking it day by day.
• 12:11
  SPEAKER_01: I was doing little things on my own to try to get my knee as straight as possible, but it still wasn't good enough without physio and without someone who knew what they were talking about.
• 12:20
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so after six weeks, I decided, okay, cool, I'm not gonna get any better without someone who has the knowledge to help me get better.
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_01: So then I actually found ISO ISO Kinetic Medical Group, which is a quite big um ACO or just generally rehab medical group.
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and then they since then they have been like my savior, to be honest.
• 12:43
  SPEAKER_01: They've helped me so much.
• 12:44
  SPEAKER_01: The physios there have been amazing.
• 12:47
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I spent a lot of time there, but honestly, since then it's been very good.
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_01: Is there's obviously been some tough moments, especially the first few weeks of going there, which the main aim was to get my knee straight.
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_01: Six weeks post-surgery, my knee still wasn't straight, which is a little concern, a little concerning.
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so that was like a red flag, and that's all we worked on.
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, the isokinetic group is an awesome group.
• 15:18
  SPEAKER_00: They uh are some front runners with some of the research that they're putting out, and also just like the rehab techniques, and it's people that I've learned from as well.
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_00: So uh if you're in good hands, uh have they like what types of things uh have you been challenged by, like the types of things that you were doing maybe early on?
• 15:39
  SPEAKER_01: Um, for me, the I would say the top two biggest struggles I've had while I've been in rehab was getting my knee straight, yeah.
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and also the first part of strengthening because I've never been someone who goes to the gym, who works on their body, I kind of just kind of just let it go.
• 15:59
  SPEAKER_01: Um, for me, when you go into physio, I think you put a very good story about it.
• 16:04
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, um, where it was something like when when everyone asks you how's your ACL injury going, and you say you're okay, but you just have like your body just aching.
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_01: That was that was literally me.
• 16:16
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so when we first started working on the hamstrings, the quads, um my my body was in bits, like it was aching, and that was the biggest struggle.
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_01: Is like if I go for one day of rehab, I need three days to recover, right?
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_01: So I feel like that for me was my biggest struggle was just trying to get past the first stages of the strengthening.
• 16:40
  SPEAKER_01: Because once you get past that first stage, it's just flies by.
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_01: Like I could go to the gym now, and my body's so used to it, I won't feel it.
• 16:48
  SPEAKER_01: So it's kind of just letting your body get used to it, the timing, but yeah, it's been tough.
• 16:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 16:55
  SPEAKER_00: I know what you're referencing, it's almost like as soon as especially right after the surgery, and I'd probably say, like you said, that first six to eight weeks, and even longer than that, it's it was this gif or GIF where uh you're just like dying inside.
• 17:11
  SPEAKER_00: Uh and it's just like all these weird feelings of like the the scars healing, the uh knee is trying to get normalized, you just got a new uh you got a new graft.
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_00: So there's all these different feelings you're trying to work on the knee.
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_00: So you're trying to figure out okay, is this pain okay?
• 17:28
  SPEAKER_00: There's some swelling, there's just so much that's going on during the process, especially early.
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_00: And then every now and then you'll just feel feel some weird pains or some weird uh like sensitivity, and then you're just like, Is this okay?
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I've I've had to ask my physio so many times that yeah, this doesn't feel right.
• 17:47
  SPEAKER_01: Like, is this okay?
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_01: And he just checks it over.
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_01: He says, Don't worry, like you're fine.
• 17:51
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's just part of the process.
• 17:53
  SPEAKER_01: So, is this is why I say having a good physio who's knowledgeable is so important, it's so important because you get so many little pains, so many little niggles that you you just want to know if you're all right, like if something's gone wrong, and with the correct person.
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I have Alex as my physio who's amazing.
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_01: Um, with the correct person, he'll he'll guide you through it.
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_01: The best way to kind of get get rid of that pain.
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_01: Sometimes it's just a little massage on the knee that kind of will just elevate the pain away.
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_01: So it's very important to kind of have that.
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, to have a guide.
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_00: Uh I guys, I can't stress this enough.
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I know you've heard this on previous episodes and stuff, but to be able to navigate this road because you know, it's so long, right?
• 18:37
  SPEAKER_00: It's a very long process, you're about halfway there from a time standpoint.
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_00: But then to be able to know that if there's something that comes up, you know, whether it's some aches or pains, or you may feel this like weird, funky pain, or your knee swallows up, like to be able to know you have a plan in place and someone alongside you that you trust, it's not just some random person to be able to help guide you there, it it makes a huge difference.
• 19:03
  SPEAKER_00: So if you're going through the process, do not do it alone.
• 19:07
  SPEAKER_00: Do not do it alone.
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_00: Um so how do you feel like your mental health is now since you've and I know you talked about that year with COVID and then also coming into now five months into rehab.
• 19:23
  SPEAKER_00: Where do you feel like your headspace is with all this?
• 19:26
  SPEAKER_01: Um right now, I feel like the toughest point for me away from the COVID situation was then first I'll say a couple months, three two to three months.
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_01: It was like, okay, this it kind of syncs with you that this is your life for the next 12 months of right just getting fit and going back to the sport you want to play.
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_01: And it was like, I have a friend who literally I'll be like to her that I can't do this anymore, like this is long, and she'll just give me like a little cold shoulder and just tell me you're gonna you're gonna do this whether you like it or not.
• 20:02
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so it is really important to have the good people around you, and I've known I know you spoke about this as well before about having the friends, the family around you to help.
• 20:11
  SPEAKER_01: Um, it's so important, it's so important.
• 20:13
  SPEAKER_01: Like right now, I'm really happy with how everything's going.
• 20:17
  SPEAKER_01: Um, it is getting to the point where I'm just like, I'm five months in, I have another six, seven, eight months left, or potentially less, we'll see.
• 20:25
  SPEAKER_01: But I'm at a stage where I don't want to rush anything.
• 20:29
  SPEAKER_01: Um but it's like I'm at the stage where this is slightly dragging a little bit, but it's you have to you just have to constantly think of the end goal.
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_01: Like, remember them times you were playing, you was enjoying yourself.
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_01: You just have to always think about that, and really and truly, it's just it's just about you making sure that you are ready for the next day, just take it day by day kind of thing.
• 20:51
  SPEAKER_01: Like you don't want to rush it, you don't want to overthink things, it's just taking it day by day.
• 20:57
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, cannot stress that enough.
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, to take it day by day, it's incredibly huge.
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_00: And if you try to look at the macro, it's going to get very exhausting.
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_00: Uh trying to think about all the different things that you might have to go through.
• 21:13
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, so taking it day by day is huge.
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_00: Um, making sure that you celebrate the small ones along the way.
• 21:21
  SPEAKER_00: So talk to me about those small wins.
• 21:23
  SPEAKER_00: I know even just like being able to hit this next benchmark of a strength uh comparison.
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_01: So talk to me about that.
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so um with isokinetic, you're very lucky to have the actual isokinetic machine.
• 21:36
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 21:36
  SPEAKER_01: Um Ravi, you could explain what the isokinet machine is.
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not the best, so yeah.
• 21:43
  SPEAKER_00: Here, I'll give a give a quick uh quick overview.
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_00: So the isokinetic machine is this machine that you essentially get strapped into and it measures our strength at certain speeds.
• 21:54
  SPEAKER_00: So we're able to figure out how strong your quadriceps, so your thigh muscle is, and then also your hamstrings.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: And it's used for other muscles as well.
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_00: But in ACL rehab and recovery, we're always looking to get towards a 90% at least compared to that uninjured side to make sure we have a good uh return to sport.
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_00: But this machine essentially measures the strength and it can also do it with certain speeds as well.
• 22:19
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so um for me, just sitting on that machine was like the biggest like victories because okay, cool.
• 22:28
  SPEAKER_01: I've started walking at this point, um, which was amazing for me as well.
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_01: Like walking was I it was just it was just weird.
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_01: Like I don't need these two sticks to just help me like bobble along anymore that I could walk without any support.
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_01: That was huge.
• 22:43
  SPEAKER_01: But sitting on that machine was like, okay, cool, this is my next step to running.
• 22:47
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, um, my score wasn't the best on my first attempt, but it's part of it.
• 22:53
  SPEAKER_01: You you always like each day my score would improve and improve and improve, and it was the best feeling ever.
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_01: And I think there was one day where I just couldn't hit my normal score, like I just couldn't do it.
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_01: And my physio saw me, Alex saw me.
• 23:09
  SPEAKER_01: I was just annoyed with myself, I was just beating myself up.
• 23:11
  SPEAKER_01: He literally he literally just took me to the corner and said, You literally just done a whole day of quads, hamstrings, and you expect to go to that machine and smash your score.
• 23:22
  SPEAKER_01: He said to me that I didn't expect you to hit your score.
• 23:25
  SPEAKER_01: You, your legs are tired, your body's tired, you've been here three to four hours.
• 23:31
  SPEAKER_01: He just laughed at me.
• 23:32
  SPEAKER_01: He was like, What do you actually expect?
• 23:33
  SPEAKER_01: And for me, because he kind of knows the way to kind of console me and to make me feel better.
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_01: And honestly, that made me feel so much better about myself.
• 23:42
  SPEAKER_01: That okay, cool, I shouldn't actually hit that score.
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and the next day I came in, we made a deal that the next day, if I come in and I smash my score, I don't have to do core work that day.
• 23:53
  SPEAKER_01: So I literally came in the next day, I had a good meal, and I smashed my I smashed my score.
• 23:58
  SPEAKER_01: So even just little victories of just beating your score every single time was amazing.
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_01: And then come test day i think my I have the paper here but my hamstring was 18 difference and my no my quad was 18 difference and my hamstring was 15 or it might have been the other way around which was a very good benchmark like start running a little bit so now I'm at the stage where I'm running we're still trying to hit that 10 and potentially even try and get them as close as possible um but yeah so once I hit that score I was over the moon like I remember it was like exam results day like I was waiting for the test to come down I went to the consultation with my doctor and I was just sitting there like a nervous kid like what what did I get an A?
• 24:46
  SPEAKER_01: Did I get a B and it felt so good honestly it felt like I couldn't stop smiling that day man it was honestly the best feeling ever.
• 24:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah and that's what that's what the journey's about like results feeling good hitting benchmarks like that's what it's all about.
• 25:01
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah absolutely celebrating those small wins and being able to take that day by day and you know it's awesome even that you mentioned you know your physio important point here is that took you aside because they know you as an athlete and being able to talk to you and know what motivates you and also put things in perspective a bit uh to be able to kind of take a step back I think is really important, which is which is awesome.
• 25:26
  SPEAKER_00: The other thing that you mentioned here so like with people who don't have access to let's say like that isokinetic machine because they can be hard to get access to specifically the main principle here that I want you to take is being able to find something to be able to find it objective.
• 25:45
  SPEAKER_00: It's not just like okay I feel stronger today.
• 25:47
  SPEAKER_00: It's how can we create these objective measures like E B you have numbers to be able to know you're within 18 to 15% of certain strengths.
• 25:56
  SPEAKER_00: And those are things that are very important to be able to do that.
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_00: Even in school you know taking your your your analogy for example um you know if you get an A or a B, those are still objective things that we're able to measure.
• 26:09
  SPEAKER_00: If we were just like hey we're getting smarter what do we measure that on and in school we do that with testing so why would this ACL testing that research has supported so much be any different right yeah 100% and I think you mentioned that before just going back to the physio bit yeah um I think you mentioned it before about as a physio your athlete comes in and you know if they're ready for a session if they're not ready for a session just by the way they walk in yeah and I asked because I speak to my physio about your podcast a lot and he actually listens to as well so it's really good.
• 26:43
  SPEAKER_01: And he came in um and he looked at me and he just looked at me he was like you're not ready for today are you and I just looked at him I was like Alex can we just have a light session so he just adapted the session towards me we still worked on what we need to work on but we just adapted it to my kind of mood that day because I go in five times a week so it's hard to get the best out of me every single day kind of thing.
• 27:07
  SPEAKER_01: So we we adapt it to how I'm feeling we make sure we hit what we need to hit but we adapt it.
• 27:12
  SPEAKER_01: If it needs to be an intense session so be it.
• 27:15
  SPEAKER_01: If it needs to be a lighter session but we're still working on the quads hamstring maybe a bit of running um we work on it so it it's very important like and I know we stressed this already but having that person that can help you with these things and the correct physio is so important.
• 27:32
  SPEAKER_01: Like I think that is top three on the priority list for when you have ACO injury.
• 27:38
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah and you raise such a good point there should be flexibility no matter the day with any of my athletes whether that it's I'm seeing them in person or working with them remotely we are talking we're in communication and we know if they're having let's say they're having a hard week just from the mental aspect or maybe uh their body is giving them a tough time that week and you're the physio or your program says you know today we're doing this there needs to be flexibility in being able to shift that because no matter what like I can I can write out something for you but if you are not up with that energy to be able to meet that then that's just it might do more harm than good right well 100% it it just comes down to the fact of the person knowing you as a person as well as an athlete like my physio um he messages me sometimes 10 11 at night like how's your knee feeling and is it still swollen and that's that's when you know you're in the correct hands because he doesn't need to do that necessarily like it's it's not on his kind of job kind of time to shift to do that and that's when you know you're in the correct hands like he makes extra time for me he'll make sure I'm all right kind of thing so that's that's what it's all about and the ACL rehab process in itself it is is amazing about how much you learn about yourself and what type of person you are is it's so interesting.
• 29:07
  SPEAKER_01: So tell me what have you learned I learned when I need to get something done I'll do it.
• 29:13
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah because I'm someone that has never taken gym seriously this is my first kind of knowing what I'm doing in the gym and I've learned that okay cool I have that mental drive to get things done because I can't lie before the first two months I was doubting myself so much like I don't think I'll get through this like I generally don't think I'll get through this and you do like you learn about yourself you learn about your time management your commitment that if you want to get something done you get it done I'm I don't have to go five times a week they recommended me three sessions a week I wanted to go five times a week because that's how much I love what I want to do and I want to go back to what I want to do.
• 29:55
  SPEAKER_01: Not saying I'm rushing the process because I'm making sure I'm following what my doctor tells me what my physio tells me but I'm putting as much effort and work in as I can.
• 30:04
  SPEAKER_01: I'm a university student and my lecturers um wouldn't want me to say this but I'll probably put more time into physio than I do with my essays and assignments.
• 30:13
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah so yeah it it builds a certain kind of toughness and this is a kind of rehab thing that I'm even happy that I'm kind of going through it it's crazy to say it's honestly so crazy to say that I'm happy that I had an ACL injury but yeah you realize so much when you have it like it's crazy and I'm really happy that it kind of happened and I've learned about myself and I've met new people that will always support me like yeah yeah there's there's so much in that is so valuable and a lot of times it's easy initially to be like why did this happen and even as you had mentioned I believe everything happens for a reason and I'm a huge believer of that as well and you know my ACL injuries and those recoveries have been very difficult and anyone who has gone through this process is very well aware of it.
• 31:05
  SPEAKER_01: But it also makes you so much more stronger than just you know this physical recovery there's such a mental component to it and there are definitely times and EB tell me like did you feel alone even though you might have still had your support system around you did you almost feel like you're a little bit isolated sometimes 100% like it it happens it's just it's like there's been times where I'm just like no one knows what I'm going through like no one no one knows what it takes to come back from an AC injury no one knows my mental state at the point no one knows how hard I work at physio they just see me put a few clips on Instagram um showing them all the good sides of it no one actually understands the tough side of it which is you could tell all your friends and family to support you but really at the end of the day it it's kind of on yourself as well a little bit so you do feel alone in some periods but it's about you remembering what you have at the end of the day what you're kind of fighting for.
• 32:10
  SPEAKER_01: I have a saying where I'm fighting to go back to playing football like just sometimes I look at myself like I shouldn't be in the position where I'm I should like I shouldn't be a five month surgery doing really well but I put in work for the past five months I've kind of cancelled everything out in my life and just said okay cool for the next year I'm literally just focusing on my knee getting fit and going back to football and I'm not saying that you have to put all that time into it but it does require a lot of time.
• 32:41
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah yeah and this could look different from for many different people right like you know Eevee I know you have um the opportunity to be able to go to therapy a lot and being able to train with some high class people and that's huge.
• 32:54
  SPEAKER_00: And you've also been putting in the work to be able to see this come through at the other other side of it um as you're going.
• 33:01
  SPEAKER_00: And I love just that you say it's a fight because it really is.
• 33:06
  SPEAKER_00: And for other people this may be you know battling their different jobs you know having kids uh trying to navigate you know the sport even identity the mental aspect of it it is a fight and that support system that we've talked about is incredibly valuable.
• 33:24
  SPEAKER_00: It's incredibly important I know I wouldn't have gotten through mine two without the people around me um but it's also this journey that you feel like you are kind of doing alone as well because no one else is kind of going through it with you uh at least like you are yourself.
• 33:42
  SPEAKER_00: And so it's this like war that you're kind of fighting as well.
• 33:46
  SPEAKER_00: So um you bring up some good points uh and it's one of those things that it's you know kind of looking at it as a war which I I I like that a fight.
• 33:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah it is and it is a fight that I'm happy to be going through let's just let's just kind of leave that and put it as that I'm very happy to go through it.
• 34:04
  SPEAKER_01: And for up for different people it might be they're struggling but at the end of the day it will get better.
• 34:11
  SPEAKER_01: Like trust me when I say it will get better it will get better like these little victories you celebrate them celebrate them with your friends I remember when I first started running literally all my friends came to my house and like I was like let's go for a joke even though I wasn't allowed but they were just taking the mick like let's go for a joke and honestly it was the best thing ever like this is why I say people around you is so important.
• 34:33
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah yeah that running uh once you hit that running milestone you're just like all right I can I can start to see it a little bit yeah like I was literally borderline tears like at that point like yeah I sat I sat down so I finished my session and I was just watching it on the train home and I was just like I ran like I actually ran for the first time since 2019 like this is crazy for me like and it felt good I didn't have pain um it was just the best feeling ever like I can't so far that's been my highest point in my surgery in my rehab process.
• 35:06
  SPEAKER_00: So you mentioned you know it's been five months so with this process it's there are some days where it almost seems like okay where's the end point?
• 35:18
  SPEAKER_01: So you mentioned dealing with or the burnout of it of you know you're rehabbing day in and day out you mentioned that end goal how do you visualize that and keep that motivation going because this road is so long what can you tell the listeners about how to visualize that end goal and keep going when they feel like giving up um just little victories I can't stress how important little victories are like the first time we've done um a bit of planetrics or a box jump I've I've done my first bit of change of direction um I think last week and it's just little victories are so important to keeping you motivated to keeping you keep on going that they're so important I can't stress how important little victories are and just remember your end goal like this is what I like to do sometimes when I don't feel like it's getting too tough on me.
• 36:11
  SPEAKER_00: I like to envision the times where I was playing football I was enjoying football and that's literally it like it's all about your coping mechanisms it's different for every person but it it's literally about how you like to kind of go about things but honestly little victories yeah biggest biggest biggest thing ever honestly yeah always trying to connect it to your why of what you're doing what you're doing so dig deep into what it is you know why do you wake up every day why do you go to rehab it's not sure it's to get your knee stronger and to be able to walk and do these athletic activities but there's some end goal that you want to get to dig into whatever that is that really fuels you and make sure that that's that end goal that you're working towards and using these small victories that add up over time to be able to help get you there.
• 37:02
  SPEAKER_00: Like for me at one point on my um rehab was actually listening to these podcasts to kind of help me kind of motivate myself um I remember listening to Jordan's one yeah and that was like okay she's she's was it twice she done hers three three times yeah and I was like okay cool if she could go through this whole process I'm struggling I remember I was two months in at this point struggling if she could do it three times I could do it once like it it's tough but remember just the role you're fighting for and what you're going back to do yeah what's your biggest fear now um re-injury yeah that's I think that's everyone's coming back from AGL um reinjury but I believe that if you put in the hard work the risks and if you do everything correctly follow your physios guidelines um my surgeon said that he wants he nine months is a good point for me to come back at but he said that he'll highly recommend me to come back at 12 months as much as nine months sounds amazing to me that's four months left I told my surgeon if you think 12 months is better I will do 12 months yeah it lowers the risk I'm not saying it won't happen again but anything to kind of get that percentage lower and lower and lower I'm willing to kind of take cannot stress that enough there's at this point mounting research that has supported time to be delayed at least until nine months and for the most part unless you are someone who is just very time sensitive there is something that is very monumental that needs to be done maybe a little bit before or within that nine to 12 month range then that makes sense but that is such a very small percentage of people so if you're listening please do yourself a favor wait till that time but the time isn't the only thing it's what you do leading up to that that will be the biggest game changer.
• 38:57
  SPEAKER_01: But I think with ACO injuries you could never have a certain time point of when you're gonna be back.
• 39:04
  SPEAKER_01: It depends on your body when you're ready it could be nine months it could be 12 14 it could be two years for some people but it's really when you're ready and there's no point rushing it and just ending back up in the same place again.
• 39:21
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah for me for both of my ACL injuries it took me a year.
• 39:26
  SPEAKER_00: It was roughly around that one year mark um I felt I was still building you know and even into the nine month I could have tried and sure I was still pushing myself training and things like that.
• 39:37
  SPEAKER_00: But I just remembered that one year 11 12 month mark was really a big moment for me to start feeling really confident in myself and really knowing that I'm in a good place from a strength and just mechanics and just movement standpoint.
• 39:52
  SPEAKER_00: But that also helped that that time between also helped to be able to help uh assist with the mental piece too which can sometimes have a little bit of that delay as you're going.
• 40:04
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah 100% and I feel like um you spoke about um like the timing and I feel like I haven't got to that point yet I feel like potentially once you get back onto the pitch like doing light stuff I feel like your body could just go into a mode of just like okay cool on the pitch now let me just rush through it.
• 40:24
  SPEAKER_01: But I just don't think it's worth it.
• 40:26
  SPEAKER_01: Like I've I've had I'm not even on the pitch and I've had these thoughts that once I start getting onto the pitch which I'm very close to sure let me just rush through it and just try and get through it but honestly once you go through the surgery and once you go through it it's hard to kind of have that mentality that I don't want to rush it but you do get times I'm just like let me just get through this as quick as possible but you don't want to end up in that same position.
• 40:51
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 40:52
  SPEAKER_01: What's one thing you wish you knew before having surgery or even starting out initially in after your ACL surgery um you're probably your podcast I appreciate that yeah honestly um I feel like before surgery having someone who could guide me along it even if I didn't know them in person potentially something like your podcast um asking your surgery questions um pre-hab advice um it was very much for me I I didn't have anyone to speak to I didn't like have that kind of support so it was just kind of like I was just waiting for surgery I didn't really have a kind of goal to get so for me I think it'll definitely have someone to kind of guide me through it even though it doesn't have to be a physio it could potentially be someone that's been through the process that could just give you little bits of advice but having someone before surgery to kind of help you in whether it's prehab or picking the correct graft or um anything but any piece of advice prior surgery is amazing and so helpful.
• 42:01
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah that's all very valuable um what does six months from now look like for you fingers crossed um back on the pitch playing football no injuries no troubles of the knee but whether that means that I'm back on the pitch still training or playing um contact sport we're yet to see but at this stage I'm very happy but six months I just want to be playing football again is like I'm getting closer and closer to the pitch and I'm just like I just want to get there kind of so hopefully I'm back playing football I'm back doing what I love um as long as I'm enjoying myself injury free that's that's all you could really ask for to be honest.
• 42:43
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah I can't wait man I'm excited to see what six months from now looks like you've already worked really hard from what I've seen and it's kind of cool you know you'll post on uh Instagram but then I can also see the isokinetic page posting about you too so it's kind of cool yeah yeah I see you working hard so I can only imagine what six more months is gonna where you're gonna be at yeah totally I don't want to rush it because I just I think for ACL injury I always say this to my friends doing it once is amazing because you learn about yourself you go through the lows but you feel the highs but I feel like going through it twice is tough.
• 43:18
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah it I feel like it is tough.
• 43:20
  SPEAKER_00: And you had such a unique injury and situation right that for other people who are listening it's going to be important to know that and the first time is not always easy to just prevent right like if we knew that there would be no ACL injuries.
• 43:38
  SPEAKER_00: But the thing is is we are really good at knowing well I take this back we know things that are risk factors that will lead you to a second reinjury and those are the things that are so important.
• 43:52
  SPEAKER_00: Make sure if it's just your first that it's your last one if it's your second make sure it's your last one if it's your third or fourth make sure it is your last one and do it right because there are so many different things that could put you at more risk.
• 44:06
  SPEAKER_00: And as Evie has talked about those are things that are going to be really important and you don't want to have to repeat that.
• 44:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah I feel like whether it's warming up properly before game or learning your movements correctly so I'm at the stage now where um I'm in the green room doing a lot of movement stuff.
• 44:23
  SPEAKER_01: Whether it's like doing that properly so for me to get onto the pitch I have to do a mat test which is a movement analysis test.
• 44:30
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah so they test your um single leg squat your box jumps your change of direction so it they have like a really cool kind of technology in place to kind of assess that.
• 44:41
  SPEAKER_01: So it's making sure that you do everything correctly because you could have all the strength there but if you're not doing the movement correctly the risk of getting injured again is very high.
• 44:50
  SPEAKER_01: So it's doing everything in your power to make sure once you're back um on the pitch and you work so hard to get back on the pitch or call or whatever is just try lower that rate of injury as much as possible.
• 45:03
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely yeah absolutely so there is one thing you could say to anyone who has injured their ACL and is going through the recovery process whether that's you know before uh they had just injured their ACL or you know they have had surgery what would that be?
• 45:23
  SPEAKER_01: Um one thing I would say um I think it would probably be it will get better like overall the process will get better.
• 45:31
  SPEAKER_01: You're probably going through a tough time a very good time at the very good time it will get better.
• 45:36
  SPEAKER_01: At the lowest time it still will get better.
• 45:39
  SPEAKER_01: So just stay positive remember what you're doing it for why you're doing it and keep your friends your family around you your support network and remember it will get better like you will touch the pitch eventually like you will touch the core or whatever you're doing it will come just you just have to wait patiently do what you need to do work hard and it will get better.
• 46:00
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah amazing advice I love that so much Eevee it's been such a pleasure to have you on the show today where can people find out more about you online and how they can keep up with you on social media um so I actually have um a a little ACL documentary out so um it's we're still on my first episode because I'm kind of doing it as I'm going through but you could find that on the Baity Squad's um Instagram page and you could also find my um Instagram at Ibiu one so that's where you can find me.
• 46:35
  SPEAKER_00: Awesome you guys check that out I think it'll be really cool to just kind of see your journey and be able to watch this documentary um and I'm excited to uh see see where you're at and getting back on the pitch man thank you it's been great being there man honestly yeah so uh we will have all of uh evie's in for information in the show notes below evank you so much for coming on the show today for having me Waffi I love talking to people who have gone through this process you bring such a unique perspective to this and uh you know being at the level that you're at and no matter where you are or what level whoever is listening uh you're at I want you to be able to take some things away and it doesn't matter that level it's more of like how can you take these principles and apply it to your situation and be able to get through this rehab process which I think is very valuable and very important.
• 47:30
  SPEAKER_00: Yep.
• 47:31
  SPEAKER_00: So uh well I think that wraps things up for this episode guys as always thank you all so much for listening to the ACL athlete podcast this is your host Ravi Patel and your guest Evie signing off