Latest / Two Tools, No Clue / M10 The Pros and Cons of Seed Banks
Transcript
- Jeidan and Anna: Hey everyone. Welcome the Two Tools No Clue Podcast. I'm Anna. And I'm Jaden. And on today's mini sewed ⁓ mini book gray. have no clue about seed banks. why are they important? And why are they problematic? We have no clue but we're about. to find out together. So fasten your tool belt. Yeah. You really started that train. Sorry. But not sorry. So last week I mentioned the podcast Food Friends, Home Cooking Made Easy, Episode 43. ⁓ And they interviewed Javier Lara, a Nahau from Mexico and program manager of Anahauc Farm. Cool. Do you remember him? Yes, I do. Okay, ⁓ Do you remember him? You better. We talked about his connection to the Three Sisters companion crops, the dishes you can make with them, and how the plants we consider weeds can be packed with way more nutrients than anything we can find at the store, amongst other things. If you haven't listened to that episode, Go listen to it. You don't need to listen to it to figure out what's happening in this episode. Yeah. But I'm still gonna tell you to go listen to it. Obviously. And and just a side note, I guess I think the ⁓ one thing that didn't expect from using like the totality of your garden and stuff like that. until we really started gardening. Yeah. You know, like today. ⁓ We're gonna go to a cookout and we let our garlic, our Italian garlic go way too long. And so we had these huge scape mm-hmm. Like they're fibrous. Fibrous. And you can actually do a lot of things with them. ⁓ I I found a cool We're gonna roast them up, ⁓ similar to asparagus, and I'm excited. The woody parts I've chopped up. And put in my dehydrator and we're gonna grind those up and then crush them up into a fine garlic scape powder. Yeah. It's something else. If you're like us and you procrastinate your garden and you let things go a little too long, you can still find ways to use them. Yeah, like it's never too late in a sense. you can always find some use out of the things in a garden. even if it's just happy little accidents. Yeah. And speaking of companion planting, like we have a lot of wasted space in our garden still. We could be doing better. So Anna gets nervous about plant spacing and it it comes from a place of love. She wants her plants to do as best as they can. She wants them to have the space to thrive. Meanwhile, I'm literally like put that baddie next to that bitch and they're gonna do whatever they want. I finally convinced Anna. I didn't even convince her, I just did it. We had a we have a what do they call them? Like the that raised garden bed we have. Is that what it is considered still? It's a it's a galvanized container. It stands on a metal frame. It's on our front porch. And I just got plants. I got two flowering native plants that that are perennials that will come back every year. And then we have I put a lavender plant in the middle. And then on the back row, it's all these snow peas that are gonna grow up on the fence. And Anna, as soon as she saw it, she was They don't have enough space. And I'm like, Anna, that they're gonna do great. And they are, they're all doing great. You know, the peas have they're they're starting to grow up. And so I think Anna's starting to realize hopefully that we can do a lot more in our beds. But we'll we'll we'll try next year. Yeah. So go listen to that episode. also briefly mentioned in that episode that Javier talked about how he's had to jump through hoops to acquire the native seeds his ancestors grew. Yeah. And that's if he's able to acquire them from seed banks. ⁓ And so seed banks are what we're going to get into in this Do you have any prior knowledge about seed banks I think the seed bank knowledge that I have is more of the greedy side of seed bank, so I'm interested to see what you say. What do you mean greedy side? Like just like government hoarding, Seeds getting lost, like not having access to just things like that. ⁓ I very much think of like wartime and what your government will or will not provide for you. And you really need like I know I've kind of ranted about that before, but that's what I think of. Yeah. but I know there's way more benefits, scientists, really kind of going for agricologists, whatever they're called. I'm I'm not being very Good with my words right now. But yeah, that's what I kind of think of, which I guess is the more negative side. Yeah. Me too. Yeah. So first things first, the definition of seed banking according to Climate Sustainability Directory.com is quote: the process of collecting, drying, cleaning, and storing seeds from diverse plant species under controlled conditions. This methodical approach is undertaken to safeguard plant biodiversity, essentially creating a living library of genetic resources, as well as quote, a series of intricate steps from meticulous seed collection protocols to advanced Cryro preservation techniques. The description shifts from a simple seed storage facility to a dynamic conservation center actively engaged in research, monitoring, and adaptive management of its Seed collections. mean, technically you kind of had a have a seed bank. ⁓ Yeah, kind And I will, sorry, call you out. It's not very organized. Like sometimes I will just like go to take something off. top of the microwave and there'll be a napkin and it'll just be like seeds will just fall out. I'm like, ⁓ It's just a bunch of seeds. What the heck are these? And I now know they're at least seeds, but at first it would scare me, you know, I'd be like, what the heck is that? It's usually pepper seeds And and that we've grown things from from her seeds. So like don't get me wrong, like she's done it correctly, but like that Yeah. That's kind of how the process starts is it dries out on top of the microwave. And then it just stays there for years until I finally put them in their packages. Yeah. so basically they're establishments that collect and store seeds in climate controlled chambers for future generations. And so we'll have them in the event of an emergency or climate disaster. Who will have them? Exactly. Who will have them is the question. When seeds are dormant, they can survive for quite a long time under the right conditions. Fun fact, we're talking anywhere from decades to a thousand years. A full ass millennium. Okay, so how do you get your seeds to last that long? Are you gonna tell us? I don't know. It's just the right conditions. ⁓ okay. Well, probably freezing them ⁓ see, I have questions about that and I've been trying to keep quiet about it, but I guess I'm gonna ask now. I don't understand how that happens because when they thaw out, like won't they get soggy? Like I feel like maybe I'm overthinking this. Obviously at some point seeds have to get wet. Yeah. So like once you thaw them out, is it like go time? Like is that like a one and done situation? Like that kind of ma makes I'm not sure about that, but when we got the sequoia seed ⁓ from Walmart, the little ⁓ yeah. Packaged sequoia seed. It told you to put it in the fridge for a couple weeks, I think. And it tricks the seed into thinking winter has passed. And then it's spring and it's time to Okay, so it's go time then. ⁓ I I feel like some seeds don't do well with freezing. I feel like if it's very dependent on the seed it them itself. Okay. So, the goal and purpose of seed banks, as I mentioned, is to create a living library and to protect and store seeds for future generations. It's considered especially important now when climate change and habitat destruction are putting a strain on many native plant species, and the endangered list is only growing. The stored seeds are often used in programs where they go out and restore habitats and reintroduce native plants to them, which is kind of cool. That is really cool. They're also used for research and education, and they claim the seeds can even be used for their genetics to improve crop resilience to things like pests, diseases, and even climate change, which is interesting. And this is where we would get into like GMOs and genetically modified plants and That is a big topic for another day. I go back and forth on that. I think it's one of the brilliant and ⁓ terrifying things that humans are able to do. Yeah. Like in some senses, like it it's good. Animals do that. Animals change, you know, and just because You know, humans like we adapt to a certain point, but our adaptations are more like how we think, how we grow. Like, you know, our brain is able to figure out these things that other animals might not be able to physically do just because of, you know, they don't have fingers. They don't you know, just those small things, but it also can be very terrifying depending on on what they're doing, how they're doing it, you know, like what they're using to do it. Like and yeah. It's all about the intentions and the ethics. Yeah. It seems the importance of seed banks mounts as global biodiversity declines due to climate change, natural disasters, and wars. And speaking of wars, Ukraine's National Gene Bank of Plants in Kharkiv was severely damaged by Russian shelling in 2022 ⁓ But thankfully collection was not fully destroyed thanks to Underground vaults. How badass is that? It's really interesting because that's usually where the majority of all those things and countries are stored. And it kinda goes to show you how actually important it is. Yeah. But we don't put value like that. We sell well, not we, but like, you know, the Burpees and all that, like these Not half ass seeds, but they're seeds, you know, and then the real deals are underground. Right. So they don't get blown up. Very true. Ecosystems, food chains, and the planet's health as a whole depend on the native plant species that we are rapidly losing. Scientists estimate we'll lose twenty five percent of the world's plants within the next fifty years. Experts also predict that during the next 50 years, a further 1 billion hectares of wilderness will be converted to farmland in developing countries alone. And that's 2.5 billion acres, give or take. So I'll be 80 years old in 50 years, and people are still having kids. Yeah. That's insane to me. And this website said the phrase by 2010. ⁓ So this website and this article could be fifteen plus years old. ⁓ we're five. Which means we're down to thirty-five years instead of fifty years. Yeah. And a kid born today will potentially be thirty-five when we've lost twenty-five percent of the world's plants. Yeah, you're not wrong. And I mean you also have to think about it, there has been at least a decade of backward thinking politics, which means programs being cut, research being cut. yes, we had in our country for years, but it our country just isn't impacted. You can see it globally every time there's a horrible president in America because we are a huge platform internationally and we suck at it. Yep. We literally suck at it. And and even in Scotland now, Scotland is going backwards. It's so sad to see, you know, them fighting and like protesting in the streets about immigrants not being able to be there. Like it is terrifying. It is, you know, people's homes being burned down because they're Muslim. Like that is crazy. Like that is insane to me. And I can't even believe that it's happening in the United Kingdom. But like it's it's very similar where research goes. You know, it doesn't get the funding, so it doesn't happen. And so yeah, that probably is fifteen years ago because, you know, Obama. Right. Very true. You know, and like it really it's a thing. And and it's scary because, you know, I've been finding that throughout researching a lot of the things that we're doing, a lot of the articles are ⁓ at a sense outdated. And you know, it makes you think it it really puts it in perspective, like wow. Time has passed and we have wasted it. We have wasted it fighting each other, fighting corrupt politicians. Like, and it, yes, okay, that is important. You know, our voice isn't being heard. We need to focus on that. But at the same time, everything is still dying. Yeah. You know, we're still losing time to research these things. I remember in 2016 I had lost my phone. So I was doing a lot of radio listening. And I was listening to NPR, and it was obviously the presidential elections. It was Hillary versus Trump. Yep. And they were going back and forth between how well each candidate was doing and then how close we were to the red zone, quote unquote, which was like a place in climate change where there is no going back. We f*cked. And that was ten years ago. Yeah. And it's crazy to me it's Exponentially gotten worse. Yeah. Yeah, people mock it. It's wild. What are you mocking? A fast track to your own death? your grandchildren's demise? Like what's your own children's demise? We're that close, people. We're that close. So yeah, it it is scary to think about. Sorry, I that was ⁓ a ⁓ get off my soapbox. Yeah, There four different types of seed banks. ⁓ Sorry, babe. Very cool. There are base seed banks, which are for long term conservation, ⁓ seed banks, which deal with distribution, research, restoration and breeding. So like seasonal planting. So like burpee and and stuff like that. Is that what that be considered? Yes. Yeah, like commercial. Yeah. I didn't really dive into any of these, but just from what the other ones say, I think that is what that would be. Yeah. If that's even a seed bank. I don't even know if it's a seed bank. Continuous. Like that's what its purpose is. Yeah. I don't know. Yeah, I'm not sure. I should have looked into that. There's also field gene banks for species that cannot be seed banked, also known as recalcitrant seeds. What are what what kind of plants are those? So recalcitrant seeds are seeds produced primarily by woody species that are not desiccation sensitive and chilling sensitive, meaning they cannot survive drying to a low moisture content or storage at freezing temperatures. So those are the seeds that wouldn't do well under the cryro preservation that we were talking about. Are these interesting? So what they just go they must be like short lived dormant seeds. Sounds like it's like that. Yeah. So like probably similar to the one like some of the ones that I got from urban seeds. when I got all the fancy ones? Yeah. Some of them I think were kind of like that. Okay. Just by the way they were wrapped. Yeah. That was really cool. Yeah. That was cool. You guys should check that out. Urbanseeds.com. Not sponsored. Not sponsored, but hey. You wanna send us some seeds, I got you urban seeds all day. From indoor plants, outdoor plants, you know, food, not food. They have a lot of cool stuff. You should check it out. Heck yeah. And the last are community seed banks, which are local varieties, farmers varieties, and they're used for food security. should start a community seed bank. We need to see if the library already because some libraries have a seed distribution system where you can get a couple packets of seeds for free. So check your local libraries if you didn't know about that. Go check them out. That's a genius idea. My brain's on fire about that. We could be in cahoots with them if not. Yeah. Or if so and if not, we can I could convince people to give me free seeds. The thing with seeds that sketches me out is like the hybridization. It's like so easy. One bee just has to visit one other plant and then that seed is a hybrid. Well that happens all the time Yeah. That might be why these peppers aren't doing too hot. I don't know. We'll find out. Anyway. Also, if you're researching seed banks, you'll see two terms come up a lot. In situ, which is Latin for in the place and refers to studying, treating, or conserving the seeds in their natural, original, or on-site locations. And ex situ, which is Latin for out of the place and involves moving the seeds to a controlled artificial or off site environment. Interesting. Sorry. Go ahead. How how do you think we'd be able to tell Maybe it's just dependent on seeds and what they need, probably. Yeah. Okay. Mini-ielts.com said quote, There are about 1,470 seed banks scattered around the globe, with a combined total of 5.4 million samples, of which perhaps 2 million are distinct non-duplicates. Most preserve genetic material for agriculture use in order to ensure crop diversity. Others aim to conserve wild species, although only fifteen percent of all banked plants are wild. Holy crap. What else is wild? Stevie literally just ripped one. Stevie, go back on your bed. ⁓ my I don't smell anything. I've been trying not to make a scene for a while either. so basically in nearly 1500 seed banks, 5.4 million samples, two million of those are non duplicates. Yeah, that's insane. Meaning they're the only sample of their kind. Why not just get another one. Yeah, I don't know. Maybe I don't know. Like, see what I mean? Yeah. Doesn't that seem evil? Sorry. The end of the world, they're like, Well, I got the one who wants it. One million dollars for this bell pepper seed. Literally. Not a packet. And then only fifteen percent of those five point four million samples are from wild plants. And I wonder how much are edible. I didn't even think about that. This could be for anything. Very true. You know, because when you were talking about earlier how you were saying like fifty percent of the world like the world's plants are in danger at this point. That's terrifying. There are so many plants. Like I can't we think of basic plants like that's it. Depending on where you live in your region, you're like Maple Tree. Like you're not like it's so small. And it's not it like there's so many plants that we'll never even know exist because we don't live in the deep, deep jungles. Seriously. And like what they do, like medicinally. There are plants that we'll never know exist in our backyard. Exactly. sorry. Go ahead. So John Trades can and Sir Joseph Banks are two English botanists who are credited for being the first ⁓ seed ⁓ aka conservationist who collects seeds from the wild specifically for preservation. Okay. So John Tradescant the Elder is known as Britain's first great plant hunter, and his collection was displayed at The Museum Tradescantianum fact the Museum Tradescantianum was England's first museum to be open to the public. That's really cool. ⁓ it unfortunately closed in 1662 when John Tradescant the Younger, his son, who is also a famous botanist, died. ⁓ dang. Another fun fact, their tombs are now the centerpiece of the Garden Museum in London. ⁓ that's really cool that they, you know Are where they kinda always wanted to be. Right. And being honored for what they did. On to Sir Joseph Banks, unfortunately. He was not only a botanist, but also the president of the Royal Society who played a pivotal role in colonizing Australia. Yikes. Yikes. Fun fact, this guy has around eighty species of plants named after him. See, that's what I'm saying, like Okay. Just the evil part. Yeah. Why does it always have to be the evil part? There's always one. So obviously this is where we get into the more problematic side of seed banks. ⁓ Javier, who was in the Food Friends podcast episode, talked about how he was eager to order and start growing the native seeds his ancestors grew in what is now Mexico, but that was unfortunately naive of him. He said here in the US, seed banking is a huge industry and people make a lot of profit from seed hunting for native seeds. Many seed providers have countless indigenous communities native plants and obviously refuse to just hand them over. Yeah. I highly doubt that the programs I mentioned earlier are benefiting indigenous communities or returning their native species to their lands, but who am I to say? And Did you know that large companies can patent seeds? Yes, I did, and it's evil. The most famous example is probably the Monsanto soybean, which are genetically modified and pat patented to resist a certain herbicide. So farmers can spray their fields and kill the weeds, but the soybean won't be affected. ⁓ Patenting a seed means that they control and own the rights to it, preventing others from producing, selling or importing it without permission. I just like I can't wrap my mind around patenting a living, growing thing. Like that's just insane to me. It's just I I know, like, you know, to profit on Food is just such a strange concept that we run on. Mm-hmm. I work for a grocery store. Yeah. I get yelled at about things being empty and it's fine. You know what I mean? Like it's very different than I think what it should be. Yeah. You know, because someone has control over a living thing. Right. Fun fact these patents can usually last around 20 years. Companies are also creating hybrids from native plants and patenting the result, making them their property. Interesting. So they they can just exploit these hybrid natives as much as they want. Yeah. Just as an example of the exploitation, Javier said Papaloquilite is a native plant to Mexico. That is very hard to grow in Oregon and even harder to get the seeds from. And you can order from companies that grow the plants in perfect microclimates to produce the seeds, but for seven dollars you get about ten seeds. So it's almost a dollar per seed. Wow. So obviously growing these natives on a large scale is extremely expensive. However, since the plant is so particular and getting seeds from them outside of that microclimate is so rare, if you want to grow these plants, you're pretty much reliant on these big seed companies. I've never thought of it that way. Monsanto has even gone so far as to pursue legal action against farmers who saved Monsanto trademark seeds from their year's crops, forcing them to spend money on new seeds every single year. We should do a whole episode on Monsanto and get get cancelled. Devil. ⁓ Cancel me, you devil. Literally. Calling you out. I'd spit on the ground. Seriously. Jeez, man. I yeah. There's evil people, that's for fucking sure. They all came weeping out of someone's vagina. Yes, they did. Dave Matthews. Dave Matthews quote Javier also talked about how he is working on getting a permit through the USDA to acquire his native Mexican seeds from a seed bank in Germany, which I kind of mentioned at the top of last week's episode. But because these seeds are in Germany, he has to go through a whole process of getting permission and approval to have them shipped over and enter the US. I was about to say, like when we went to Scotland, you were like joking about like, ⁓ well, I'll just and I'm like, no, you will not take these seeds because that is Definitely how you will get stopped right now. He's like, I want to bring this pine cone home and he was like, Nope. Javier said quote, "What's ironic to me is that we have to go to a foreign country to get our traditional ancestral plants." Although the future may seem bleak with evil mega corporations like Monsanto controlling the seeds that are supposed to be a lifeline to us in the future, as well as gatekeeping indigenous seeds, there's some indigenous communities who have been able to start seed banking their own seeds on their own terms. Yeah, that's kind of crazy. So the Cherokee Nation Seed Bank Garden and Native Plant Site is one example. The homepage of their website says, quote, the Seed Bank is a plant and cultural preservation program that provides seeds to tribal citizens who are interested in growing traditional Cherokee crops. End quote. It was established in 2006 as a means to preserve Cherokee heirloom crops. They're so serious about the native integrity of the seeds they distribute that they tell you exactly how and when to plant the seeds you acquire. ⁓ wow. Quote It's the tribe's pleasure to provide Cherokee plants and seeds. Please note the seed bank contains rare cultivars that are not commercially available and represent centuries of Cherokee culture and agriculture. It is important to preserve these rare genetics so Please be mindful of the directions denoted in this planting guide. Any divergence from these instructions could result in hybridization and loss of the plant's genetic integrity. End quote. So they take this shit seriously. They're like, don't f*ck up our seeds. We're trusting you. Yeah. So that, my friends, is the good and the bad, the pros and the cons, the light and the dark of seed banks. What your thoughts? Are seed banks beneficial or are corporations ruining them? I think it's a double edged sword, you know. I I really think they are beneficial. They're necessary. 'Cause if you think about it at the end of the day, like I lit after this I literally just want to go buy a bunch of seeds. You know what I mean? Yeah. ⁓ because you never know. And I feel like they try to trick us every growing season too. if you keep your seeds for more than one season. They're still gonna grow if you can keep them in a maintained setting. Right. I think they're gonna be okay. Like we've a season and then grown them and they did completely fine. I feel like these big companies just try to trick you. Yeah. I mean, seeds are so incredible. There are seeds that we have attempted to plant when we were starting seeds to grow in our garden. We'll like put them in these little black containers. And the ones that do grow, we pluck them out and we replant them in bigger pots. And then we discard the soil and kind of like recycle it the next year. And sometimes those seeds from previous years decide, you know, now's a good time to sprout. We've had like kale seeds, tomatoes. Yeah. The bell peppers always sprouting like now's a good time. Yeah. This is my season. They're just so particular. Yeah. But I don't know. I think there could be a benefit to it if it was for community. If it was for survival, a hundred percent. It honestly has me thinking. Yeah. It honestly has me thinking that maybe we need to be looking into something similar to that Cherokee program, but where it maybe be attached to like a research program or a seed banking program. Where like you purchase the seeds and the money goes towards something like that rather than it going to Ferrymorris, Burpee you know. Livingston. Livingston, whatever the heck, no offense, to all yall ⁓ yeah, we need to keep our money local. Yeah. just or even and and if not local, especially for like seeds and stuff like that, like a good cause. Right. You know, to the preservation of. But this was a really cool mini episode. Thanks. ⁓ definitely opened up a can of worms for a few more other episodes though, I'd say. I yeah. Seriously. Some big episodes. All right. So today is Thursday, July 9th Armadillos mate now. ⁓ I wonder never. And we have a pro proverb puff not against the wind. Today is the best day to cut hair to discourage growth. Color hair, ask for a loan, and harvest below ground crops. ⁓ get your carrots out of there. Yep. I don't think our carrots are ready. No, I don't think so either. Okay. Not in New Hampshire, not in New England. Don't let New England friends don't listen to this. If you're if you're in California though. Yeah. If you're in five, they ain't alive. Zone five is not ready. Zone five, they ain't alive. Well, ⁓ we hope you all had a safe and happy fourth of July. We hope the week was good to you. We can't wait to see you again next week. You can follow us on Facebook, Instagram, YouTube, and TikTok @twotoolsnoclue You can subscribe to our Patreon at patreon.com/twotoolsnoclue. And you can email us your stories, your comments, your concerns, anything. Just say hi at twotoolsnocluepodcast@gmail.com And also you guys, we have like a very specific amount of listeners every week. 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A lot. ⁓ and you know, it's funny because sometimes even after the podcast, like I'll go out and just do my regular week and then I'll see something. I'll be like, ⁓ this has been right in front of me this entire Yeah. Right. And technically this is our 20th episode. high-five high-five So Anna told me at the beginning of this that most podcasts don't make it past episode seven. So it's so we recorded seven episodes before we even launched. Yeah. it's been really exciting and I'm really proud of us. So can't wait to keep on going. Thank you to everyone who's been supporting and listening in any way, even just liking our TikToks. It's Been amazing. We love you guys. Yeah, we love you all so much and we hope you have a great week. We'll see you next time. Bye bye. Bye.