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The True Cost Of Mental Healthcare · She's On The Money

0:00
Speaker 1: Hello, my name's Santasha Nabananga Bamblet. I'm a proud yr
0:04
Speaker 1: the Order Kerni Whoalbury and a waddery woman. And before
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Speaker 1: we get started on She's on the Money podcast, I
0:11
Speaker 1: would like to acknowledge the traditional custodians of the land
0:14
Speaker 1: of which this podcast is recorded on a wondery country,
0:18
Speaker 1: acknowledging the elders, the ancestors and the next generation coming
0:22
Speaker 1: through as this podcast is about connecting, empowering, knowledge sharing
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Speaker 1: and the storytelling of you to make a difference for
0:30
Speaker 1: today and lasting impact for tomorrow.
0:33
Speaker 2: Let's get into it.
0:34
Speaker 3: She's on the Money, She's on the Money.
0:57
Speaker 4: Hello, and welcome to She's on the Money, the podcast
1:00
Speaker 4: for millennials who want financial freedom. Two weeks ago we
1:04
Speaker 4: did an episode on the cost of care with Rhiann
1:07
Speaker 4: and Tracy, who was so good.
1:09
Speaker 2: That was such a great episode humans.
1:11
Speaker 4: We covered a whole range of diseases and injuries and
1:14
Speaker 4: looked at the real and very hidden costs of living
1:17
Speaker 4: with these conditions. It was such a huge episode and
1:20
Speaker 4: so eye opening, so I recommend taking a listen if
1:24
Speaker 4: you haven't already. But we just wanted to do a
1:25
Speaker 4: few more episodes focusing on particular conditions because there is
1:29
Speaker 4: so much to learn and discuss. Today. We're looking at
1:32
Speaker 4: mental health, the stats, the hidden and real costs, and
1:36
Speaker 4: so much more. My name is Beck and with me
1:39
Speaker 4: is Victoria Devine.
1:40
Speaker 2: Hello, my love, how are you?
1:43
Speaker 5: You know?
1:44
Speaker 2: I'm pretty nice and chills. Oh, you're pretty nice today.
1:48
Speaker 4: I feel like, you know, when you're like a slightly sleepy,
1:50
Speaker 4: but not enough to be like tired, tired, You're just
1:54
Speaker 4: kind of in a chill.
1:55
Speaker 2: No, the second I get slightly slightly I'm like, does
1:57
Speaker 2: this man, I get to go to bed? Any excuse
1:59
Speaker 2: to go to bed? Mental health goback? Okay, because I
2:03
Speaker 2: am wildly passionate about this topic, but also just about
2:06
Speaker 2: talking about insurance and talking about protecting ourselves and putting
2:09
Speaker 2: ourselves in the best possible position. And you already know
2:12
Speaker 2: because I have drummed this into you that as Australians
2:15
Speaker 2: we are some of the most underinsured people in the
2:18
Speaker 2: entire world. But also I really hope that by talking
2:22
Speaker 2: about the realities of the costs behind these illnesses and conditions,
2:25
Speaker 2: we can actually really help open up conversation about the
2:28
Speaker 2: realities of living with these conditions and the stigma that
2:31
Speaker 2: currently and still unfortunately surrounds them, and mental health is
2:36
Speaker 2: something that is so close to my own heart. So
2:39
Speaker 2: before we get even further into this, I do think
2:42
Speaker 2: that this episode deserves a content warning. So if the
2:46
Speaker 2: discussion around mental health and the topic of suicide is
2:50
Speaker 2: not going to be a conversation you want to have today,
2:52
Speaker 2: that is totally fine, my loves. I have put some
2:55
Speaker 2: resources in our show notes to make sure that you
2:57
Speaker 2: can reach out for the support that you need and deserve.
3:00
Speaker 2: But also don't feel bad to just skip this episode
3:02
Speaker 2: skip ahead. Turns out, beg, We've got a lot of
3:05
Speaker 2: other episodes you can listen to that won't talk about
3:07
Speaker 2: those topics. You won't be missing out. No, you won't
3:10
Speaker 2: be missing I mean hopefully you will be missing out
3:12
Speaker 2: because it's a really good topic. I think that, yeah,
3:14
Speaker 2: there's a time and a place for conversations like that,
3:16
Speaker 2: and if you're not in the headspace for it, don't
3:18
Speaker 2: do it because it's not worth it.
3:19
Speaker 4: Totally fine, that's very well said. Be So that actually
3:22
Speaker 4: is ought to get to today. But what is a
3:23
Speaker 4: snapshot of the prevalence of mental health conditions in Australia.
3:27
Speaker 2: So I've gone on and on about this. The cost
3:29
Speaker 2: of care white paper by Zurich is one of my
3:33
Speaker 2: favorite white papers ever produced because we really didn't have
3:37
Speaker 2: enough insight into the cost of these conditions before that
3:41
Speaker 2: we could google it and like there was I guess,
3:43
Speaker 2: you know, eclectic resources on this, but there wasn't like
3:46
Speaker 2: one paper that had really focused on it. And I mean,
3:49
Speaker 2: this paper was done a few years ago, and I'm
3:51
Speaker 2: absolutely certain that they are probably going to re release
3:54
Speaker 2: one at some point. I would love to see one
3:57
Speaker 2: on the cost of mental health during COVID. I feel
4:00
Speaker 2: like that would be a really interesting read. And as
4:04
Speaker 2: an ex financial advisor, I obviously had a lot of
4:07
Speaker 2: exposure to this side of it, and I don't think
4:09
Speaker 2: the general public goes you know what I'm going to do.
4:11
Speaker 2: I'm going to go to an insurer's website. I'm going
4:13
Speaker 2: to read their white papers on the cost of care.
4:16
Speaker 2: But a promise it's really exciting, riveting stuff, and this
4:20
Speaker 2: white paper, I guess to go more into it. It
4:23
Speaker 2: talked about the cost of care of mental health.
4:25
Speaker 4: So forty five point five percent of the total population
4:30
Speaker 4: beck experience a mental health condition at some point in
4:34
Speaker 4: their life.
4:36
Speaker 2: Half of us. Well, it slower than I thought.
4:38
Speaker 4: I kind of think it's lower, and I know that
4:40
Speaker 4: it should be like it's a big number and it
4:41
Speaker 4: should be like, oh my gosh, that's a lite.
4:44
Speaker 2: Yeah, I just feel like it's I don't know. I'm
4:46
Speaker 2: not going to disagree with Zurich because they're actual, genuine researchers.
4:50
Speaker 2: I'm just a plub x financial advisor who was given
4:52
Speaker 2: a podcast like I don't even know how that happened. Still,
4:55
Speaker 2: but I just feel like I just keep it health. Yeah. No,
4:59
Speaker 2: I really don't get it, like it's like imposter syndrome,
5:02
Speaker 2: but like it's not imposter syndrome. I'm genuinely an imposta,
5:06
Speaker 2: Like I don't suggest postra no, no syndrome.
5:09
Speaker 1: Yeah.
5:09
Speaker 2: I guess when we talk about forty five point five
5:12
Speaker 2: percent of the total population experiencing a mental health condition,
5:15
Speaker 2: one hundred percent of us, from my perspective, have mental health.
5:19
Speaker 2: Whether we have a conditional or not is going to
5:21
Speaker 2: depend a lot on our medical history and the circumstances
5:25
Speaker 2: we are exposed to, and the environment that we grow
5:27
Speaker 2: up in and the environments that we experience and the
5:30
Speaker 2: events that we go through and the trauma that we experience.
5:32
Speaker 2: And there's so many things, right, but from my perspective,
5:35
Speaker 2: every single one of us has mental health, and we
5:38
Speaker 2: either have really good mental health and you're very, very lucky,
5:42
Speaker 2: or you experience some you know, mental health issues along
5:46
Speaker 2: the way. So I think that's important to differentiate at
5:49
Speaker 2: the start, like you don't just not have mental health
5:51
Speaker 2: like we all do. The prevalence means it actually shares
5:55
Speaker 2: the stage beack with cancer and heart disease as a
5:59
Speaker 2: group of high impact medical life disruptors, and mental health
6:03
Speaker 2: conditions are present in all ages and in all socioeconomic groups,
6:08
Speaker 2: which I don't think is going to come as a
6:10
Speaker 2: surprise to any of us. Mental health conditions can include
6:13
Speaker 2: effective disorders, so things like depression and bipolar and schizophrenia,
6:17
Speaker 2: anxiety disorders including panic attacks and stress disorders, and substance
6:22
Speaker 2: abuse disorders so alcohol and drug dependencies fall under this.
6:27
Speaker 2: One in six women and one in eight men beck
6:31
Speaker 2: will experience depression during their lifetime, and one in three
6:35
Speaker 2: women and one in five men will experience anxiety. Mental
6:40
Speaker 2: health conditions are most common in those aged between twenty
6:43
Speaker 2: five and thirty four years old, affecting nearly one in
6:47
Speaker 2: four and this then declines with age, and they affect
6:51
Speaker 2: women more than men across all age groups and those
6:54
Speaker 2: living in rural areas. And individuals spend and estimated thirteen
6:59
Speaker 2: hundred and fifty dollars per year out of pocket for
7:02
Speaker 2: mental health conditions, with medications accounting for one third of
7:07
Speaker 2: these cost Wow, isn't that wild.
7:09
Speaker 4: Have you had any experience with kind of like the
7:12
Speaker 4: i'd say, prescribed mental health drug?
7:15
Speaker 2: Yes, I have. I guess you're new here, so welcome
7:19
Speaker 2: to you know, a little bit of a deep dive
7:21
Speaker 2: into Victoria's medical history. So I have been diagnosed with
7:26
Speaker 2: clinical depression and anxiety. I also have ADHD and have
7:30
Speaker 2: a mental health history of eating disorders. So I was
7:34
Speaker 2: hospitalized in my teenage years for a significant period of
7:38
Speaker 2: time for anorexia. And that is something that you know
7:41
Speaker 2: on previous episodes I've spoken about and I think it's
7:43
Speaker 2: just so important to just address it. I don't think
7:45
Speaker 2: it changes my value as a human being. I don't
7:49
Speaker 2: think it changes anything about the way you should view me.
7:53
Speaker 2: In fact, I think that those experiences have just made
7:58
Speaker 2: my experience richer. Right, And when I talk about a
8:00
Speaker 2: topic like this, I am speaking from experience, I have
8:03
Speaker 2: been medicated since the age of fourteen for depression and anxiety.
8:07
Speaker 2: I've tried a number of different medications, and I'm still
8:10
Speaker 2: on a medication today, and I take what I guess
8:15
Speaker 2: doctors would deem a relatively high dosage of depression and
8:19
Speaker 2: anxiety medication. And I strongly believe I'm never coming off
8:23
Speaker 2: that I have tried coming off that, because there have
8:26
Speaker 2: been periods of my life where I go, I don't
8:29
Speaker 2: want to be medicated, like and there's the stigma that
8:31
Speaker 2: you apply to yourself when you're like, I don't need
8:33
Speaker 2: this medication anymore. But I guess now the period of
8:36
Speaker 2: my life that I am in, I have come to
8:38
Speaker 2: the realization that my medication for my anxiety and my
8:42
Speaker 2: depression is actually a bit like the medication a diabetic
8:46
Speaker 2: would have, right, and a diabetic it doesn't have enough
8:50
Speaker 2: insulin to make their body function properly. Right, so you
8:55
Speaker 2: would go, okay, diabetic, here's some insulin. And I mean
8:58
Speaker 2: that's a very basic way of explos They get that
9:01
Speaker 2: their life can carry on as normal, and beck you
9:03
Speaker 2: would know, you don't just get better and then all
9:06
Speaker 2: of a sudden start producing insulin. As a diabetic, you
9:09
Speaker 2: just take that for the rest of your life and
9:11
Speaker 2: monitor those levels and make sure they're okay. Right. I
9:14
Speaker 2: believe the same happens in my brain because my depression
9:17
Speaker 2: and anxiety isn't trauma related. It's actually just I think
9:21
Speaker 2: it could potentially be just in my genetics. It's in
9:24
Speaker 2: my DNA, and I just don't have enough dopamine and
9:28
Speaker 2: I don't have enough serotonin in my brain. And I
9:31
Speaker 2: take those drugs to make sure that I can function
9:34
Speaker 2: at the same level as you can. So from my experience, yes,
9:37
Speaker 2: I have had a lot of experience with drugs. I
9:39
Speaker 2: have drugs that have worked for me. I've had drugs
9:41
Speaker 2: that haven't worked for me. I've had to go through
9:43
Speaker 2: a drug withdrawal program because my depression drugs were really
9:48
Speaker 2: messing with me. And I also take stimulants for my ADHD,
9:53
Speaker 2: but I am not good at taking those stimulants because
9:55
Speaker 2: I don't like how they make me feel sure, so
9:57
Speaker 2: I avoid them, and that would be really, really tough.
10:00
Speaker 2: If there's something that you, I guess maybe need is
10:03
Speaker 2: need a strong word, Yeah, no, no, I definitely need to
10:06
Speaker 2: need to take them.
10:07
Speaker 4: Yeah, And you don't like the way you feel when
10:09
Speaker 4: you take them, and that's just that seems like a
10:11
Speaker 4: really unfortunate kind of like catch twenty two.
10:15
Speaker 2: It's a massive catch twenty two. And I suppose I'm
10:18
Speaker 2: so lucky in that for me medication. I mean, I
10:22
Speaker 2: talk about the stigma, right, and I say, oh, I
10:24
Speaker 2: went off them because I just didn't want them back.
10:26
Speaker 2: I just didn't want to be on medication, Like at
10:29
Speaker 2: the end of the day, it's just something I didn't want.
10:31
Speaker 2: But no one really wants that, right, Like you don't
10:33
Speaker 2: want to be taking insulin for the rest of your life,
10:36
Speaker 2: but you do it because you want to be healthy,
10:38
Speaker 2: and that's just the key to it.
10:40
Speaker 5: Right.
10:40
Speaker 2: So I think for me my need, I don't have
10:44
Speaker 2: a choice. If I don't take my anxiety and depression drugs,
10:47
Speaker 2: I'm not a functional member of society. I just am
10:49
Speaker 2: not I am not happy, I am not kind, I
10:52
Speaker 2: am not any of those things. But then if I
10:55
Speaker 2: don't take my stimulants, I'm just not as productive. And
10:58
Speaker 2: I mean, I feel very luck key to live in
11:01
Speaker 2: twenty twenty three and I have access to a plethora
11:05
Speaker 2: of research. And I've said this before and it's not
11:08
Speaker 2: you know, I don't want to name the supplements I
11:10
Speaker 2: take because we've talked about it before. I'm not a doctor,
11:13
Speaker 2: and this is me sharing my anecdotal experience, not me
11:16
Speaker 2: sharing medical information. And I would hate for you to go,
11:19
Speaker 2: oh my gosh. Well, Victorious said on a podcast that
11:22
Speaker 2: this particular supplement helped her, Like, that's not from my perspective,
11:26
Speaker 2: responsible of me to share that. Just because it works
11:30
Speaker 2: for me doesn't mean it will work for you. But
11:32
Speaker 2: I have done so much personal research into different supplements
11:36
Speaker 2: and like mushrooms, like the non not magic mushrooms, like
11:40
Speaker 2: different types of mushrooms and supplements and things that I
11:43
Speaker 2: can take that kind of act in a way that
11:45
Speaker 2: a stimulant does. And if you're in that circumstance and
11:48
Speaker 2: you want to do that, research is really easy to find.
11:50
Speaker 2: Like it's not hard. It's all over TikTok, it's all
11:52
Speaker 2: over Instagram, it's all over Google. You just google it
11:55
Speaker 2: and you can stuck going down that rabbit hole and
11:58
Speaker 2: working out what might work for you. But sure, yeah,
12:00
Speaker 2: my stimulants I rely on maybe like a couple of
12:02
Speaker 2: times a week when I really have to set my
12:06
Speaker 2: mind to something or i'm feeling extra agitated or I'm
12:08
Speaker 2: feeling extra bouncy. Sure, yeah, yeah, yeah, just like that.
12:12
Speaker 2: But like even in this moment, I'm not on my
12:14
Speaker 2: stimulants because I think there's so many things going on
12:16
Speaker 2: and there's so much structure. Yeah, it's an interesting concept
12:19
Speaker 2: when we can talk about I guess totally my experience
12:22
Speaker 2: is in more depth at some point in the future. Absolutely,
12:26
Speaker 2: those mine. What about your experiences? I'm very lucky.
12:29
Speaker 4: I don't actually have any not to say that I unicorn.
12:32
Speaker 4: I'm like, yeah, like I don't have any medication that
12:37
Speaker 4: I take regularly for anything.
12:39
Speaker 2: Money win money, win big money.
12:41
Speaker 4: When I feel like there was a moment maybe for
12:43
Speaker 4: a year or two there where I was like really
12:45
Speaker 4: discovering myself and I had some pretty bad social anxiety,
12:48
Speaker 4: but I didn't diagnose it.
12:49
Speaker 2: I didn't know what it was.
12:50
Speaker 4: I didn't know why I felt really introverted and stuff.
12:53
Speaker 4: So I spent a lot of money on like New
12:55
Speaker 4: Tropics and all the weird like you know, not necessarily weird,
12:59
Speaker 4: but just its like, no, it's weird. I was just
13:01
Speaker 4: obsessed with, like how do I make my brain feel
13:04
Speaker 4: uninhibited again? And so that was probably the most expensive
13:08
Speaker 4: thing but as far as this really expensive, I was like, yeah,
13:11
Speaker 4: I was gone down the mushroom train as well myself.
13:13
Speaker 4: But that's the only thing really I don't I'm very,
13:15
Speaker 4: very fortunate to say that I don't have to take
13:18
Speaker 4: anything for anything for any reason. And it's very cheap,
13:23
Speaker 4: I would think, and we will find out.
13:25
Speaker 2: Actually yeah, I mean that's the money when that you're
13:27
Speaker 2: not on any medications and don't have any of those
13:29
Speaker 2: associated costs. But it's a money loss if you were
13:32
Speaker 2: experiencing mental health and you weren't taking the right medications,
13:35
Speaker 2: because it ultimately impacts every other aspect of your life, right,
13:39
Speaker 2: And I think it's interesting conundrum to be in as well.
13:43
Speaker 2: Like even I mean complete tangent again me talking about
13:47
Speaker 2: taking a whole heap of supplements. I again so privileged
13:51
Speaker 2: to be able to afford these supplements, but like one
13:53
Speaker 2: of my bottles that I purchase online. By the way,
13:57
Speaker 2: when I'm talking about mushrooms, I feel like I'm crazy, no,
14:00
Speaker 2: because it's like something that a lot of people might
14:03
Speaker 2: not have heard of. We're not talking medicinal like magic mushrooms.
14:07
Speaker 2: We're talking mushrooms that have no no, no, no. We're
14:12
Speaker 2: also not talking about cup mushrooms that you buy cut
14:14
Speaker 2: or halved at the supermarket. Yeah, anyway, we won't go
14:17
Speaker 2: on and on about that. But that's like one hundred
14:18
Speaker 2: and ten dollars a bottle for me, and I go
14:21
Speaker 2: through a bottle every month, and that's a privilege for
14:24
Speaker 2: me to be able to rely on that instead of
14:26
Speaker 2: on my stimulants, because that helps me get through. But like,
14:30
Speaker 2: I'm also a bit of a health nut, and I
14:32
Speaker 2: make sure I have all my amigas, and I make
14:33
Speaker 2: sure that I you know, a lot of natural paths
14:36
Speaker 2: are going to be. Like you don't need to take
14:38
Speaker 2: a multi vitamin, Victoria, But like there are a whole
14:40
Speaker 2: heap of things that I do tape that I do
14:42
Speaker 2: feel lift brain fog and make money more clear and
14:47
Speaker 2: put me in a better mental state. And that costs money. Right, Absolutely,
14:51
Speaker 2: we're not talking about that today. What we're talking about
14:53
Speaker 2: is the literal medications and the actual healthcare system, not
14:56
Speaker 2: Victoria's hippie dippy mushroom vibes. I'm riding that way with babe,
15:00
Speaker 2: But I guess that we should really get back on topic.
15:03
Speaker 2: That was our experience.
15:05
Speaker 4: But what did the Zurich White paper find that Australians
15:08
Speaker 4: on the whole experience when it comes to the cost
15:11
Speaker 4: of mental health conditions.
15:12
Speaker 1: Yes.
15:12
Speaker 2: So, the estimated total health system expenditure on mental health
15:17
Speaker 2: was twelve point eight billion dollars, comprising of nine hundred
15:21
Speaker 2: and seventy four million in health care costs and beck
15:25
Speaker 2: eleven point eight billion dollars in productivity loss.
15:30
Speaker 4: Wow.
15:31
Speaker 2: Wow, isn't that wild? Like to just break that down.
15:35
Speaker 2: Obviously that's a lot of billions of dollars, but it
15:38
Speaker 2: was nine hundred and seventy four million in health care
15:43
Speaker 2: costs and eleven billion in productivity costs Beeck. Ten percent
15:48
Speaker 2: was the actual health care cost. Ninety percent is sitting
15:53
Speaker 2: in productivity loss when it comes to mental health.
15:56
Speaker 4: Oh my gosh, you don't even think about that.
15:58
Speaker 2: Isn't that wild? Like I say, bills and I think
16:00
Speaker 2: that everybody just kind of like it flies over your
16:02
Speaker 2: head and you go, oh, so much money. You're right,
16:04
Speaker 2: let's talk about this. But like ninety percent of that cost,
16:07
Speaker 2: or around ninety percent of that cost is loss of
16:10
Speaker 2: productivity due to mental health. Yeah, what that's wild, isn't
16:15
Speaker 2: it wild? Mental health conditions have large economic and social costs.
16:18
Speaker 2: We already know that the conditions are often lengthy, leading
16:22
Speaker 2: to career disruption, instability, loss of skills, and social isolation,
16:26
Speaker 2: which is why economic costs are not limited to lost work,
16:30
Speaker 2: but also to long term lost opportunities. Yeah, okay, which
16:34
Speaker 2: we need to talk about as well. And I'm just
16:36
Speaker 2: so glad that it's being taken into consideration now because
16:40
Speaker 2: I think if we had gone back, let's say ten years,
16:43
Speaker 2: and we talked about mental health, and someone was trying
16:46
Speaker 2: to calculate my cost of mental health, but be like, well,
16:49
Speaker 2: how much do you spend on medication each month? Yes,
16:52
Speaker 2: how much was your doctor's appointment? Full stop? End of story,
16:54
Speaker 2: that's the cost of my mental health. And that's not
16:57
Speaker 2: the case. And I feel like I am I feel
17:01
Speaker 2: like I've said I'm privileged already this episode, but I
17:03
Speaker 2: just I feel so genuinely lucky that the circumstances I
17:08
Speaker 2: am in are favorable. Like I don't know how to
17:14
Speaker 2: say this without sounding like an absolute whine carpick. My
17:17
Speaker 2: career has been successful. I've been so lucky that things
17:21
Speaker 2: have lined up for me and that I have worked
17:23
Speaker 2: my butt off and done all these other things. But
17:25
Speaker 2: there are so many people in this world who have
17:27
Speaker 2: worked their absolute butts off and are at a loss
17:30
Speaker 2: when it comes to their career or what has happened.
17:34
Speaker 2: And I mean, I'm not saying that I have lost
17:36
Speaker 2: any of those things. And I think personally, if you
17:38
Speaker 2: were to quantify my loss, I actually think that my
17:40
Speaker 2: mental health has really played into my success. Like I
17:44
Speaker 2: was talking about my ADHD the other day with a
17:47
Speaker 2: friend and they're like, oh, how do you really think
17:49
Speaker 2: that your ADHD has impacted She's on the money and
17:52
Speaker 2: you know Zella and creating Zella money and all that,
17:54
Speaker 2: And I just said, I don't think I would have
17:57
Speaker 2: She's on the Money and Zella money without my AID. Right,
18:00
Speaker 2: they are a product of me being obsessed with something,
18:03
Speaker 2: which is one of the things that happens when you
18:06
Speaker 2: have ADHD. I get so fixated on one particular topic
18:10
Speaker 2: that that's why we've deep dived into it, That's why
18:13
Speaker 2: I created it. I don't think I would have been
18:15
Speaker 2: able to commit to something like She's on the Money
18:18
Speaker 2: without my mental health issues. So I'm very lucky. But
18:22
Speaker 2: that's not the reality of everybody else. Because we go
18:25
Speaker 2: back to that number of eleven point eight billion dollars
18:28
Speaker 2: in loss productivity. So my experience is not the norm. No,
18:32
Speaker 2: my experience is so far from the Norman. It's not funny.
18:35
Speaker 2: We know. Social costs include increased rates of divorce, domestic violence,
18:39
Speaker 2: and substance of use. Treatment costs include most medications under
18:44
Speaker 2: heavily government subsidized, with public subsidies available through general practice
18:48
Speaker 2: mental health care plans, medical consultation rebates, and the Pharmaceutical
18:52
Speaker 2: Benefit Scheme the PBS, which we talked about in our
18:55
Speaker 2: last episode. Public hospital admissions are reserved for the most
19:00
Speaker 2: mental health conditions and are provided free of charge, and
19:04
Speaker 2: then moderate medical health conditions including substance misuser treated largely
19:09
Speaker 2: by the private hospital system, and inpatient treatments are often
19:13
Speaker 2: lengthy and moderately expensive, with private health providers offering some
19:17
Speaker 2: subsidies for inpatient care. But there's always, always, always a
19:21
Speaker 2: lot of out of pocket when it comes to treatment
19:23
Speaker 2: like that, right, Unfortunately, it's crazy. Is as crazy?
19:27
Speaker 4: Do they find any other direct links to physical conditions?
19:30
Speaker 2: So apparently many people with back problems, especially chronic back pain,
19:34
Speaker 2: have poor mental health and are more likely to report
19:37
Speaker 2: conditions like depression, anxiety, and psychological distress. And when it
19:41
Speaker 2: comes to getting treatment for other conditions. Adults with depression, anxiety,
19:45
Speaker 2: and other mental health conditions are seven times more likely
19:49
Speaker 2: to skip health care than people without a mental health condition.
19:52
Speaker 2: My gosh, that.
19:53
Speaker 4: Oh so frustrating, frustrating, and this conversation in particular really
19:58
Speaker 4: just slap me in the face. Because my best friend
20:00
Speaker 4: has a chronic back issue and she her mental health
20:02
Speaker 4: is so poor and she thinks it's because of other reasons.
20:06
Speaker 2: But say, I'm going to send it.
20:07
Speaker 4: I'm going to send it this episode and tell her
20:09
Speaker 4: to have a good listen.
20:10
Speaker 2: Breaks my heart as well, because I think so many
20:13
Speaker 2: people think that their mental health is so in their control.
20:17
Speaker 2: Like it frustrates me. And I ended a friendship recently,
20:22
Speaker 2: actually back and I ended it because this person couldn't
20:27
Speaker 2: see my side of the tracks, right, Like we were
20:31
Speaker 2: talking about mental there were so many other things, right,
20:33
Speaker 2: but just be happy with something, she said, or why
20:36
Speaker 2: don't you just focus on doing more pilates or why
20:39
Speaker 2: don't you like she just could not conceptualize that the
20:42
Speaker 2: issue that I was having, you know, and have had
20:45
Speaker 2: for a number of years, Like she just thought it
20:47
Speaker 2: was like a choice, like people choose right to be
20:50
Speaker 2: unhappy and I think when you have a chronic health condition,
20:54
Speaker 2: you assume that your mental health is it's just in
20:56
Speaker 2: your control. But once you're able to get back out there,
20:59
Speaker 2: you'll be happy again. And it's really not the case.
21:02
Speaker 2: Like your mental health is. It can be in your control, right,
21:05
Speaker 2: Like I'm taking control of my mental health by going
21:07
Speaker 2: and getting mental health care practitioners involved and talking to
21:10
Speaker 2: my GP and being on the right medication and doing
21:13
Speaker 2: all these things. But it's not just a choice you make.
21:15
Speaker 2: You don't get out of bed in the morning, Regin
21:17
Speaker 2: know what, I'm just gonna choose to be happy today. Yeah,
21:19
Speaker 2: I'm just going to choose to have a good day.
21:21
Speaker 4: I feel like I want to have anxiety today.
21:23
Speaker 2: Yeah, do you know what, I'm just not gonna have
21:25
Speaker 2: anxiety today. I'm just going to go do this thing.
21:27
Speaker 2: And Like it's funny because I think when I start
21:30
Speaker 2: to share my mental health journey and what that means,
21:32
Speaker 2: I think people look at me and go absolutely not, Victoria,
21:35
Speaker 2: You're so confident. That doesn't mean it doesn't manifest in
21:38
Speaker 2: other areas of my life. Can I get up on
21:41
Speaker 2: stage and talk to a room of five thousand people, Absolutely,
21:44
Speaker 2: I can easily can. I sometimes not get myself out
21:48
Speaker 2: of bed, though, and spend days in my bed not
21:51
Speaker 2: being able to get out. I refuse to answer the phone,
21:53
Speaker 2: I refuse to check my emails. I refuse to do
21:55
Speaker 2: a whole heap of things. I don't even get in
21:57
Speaker 2: the shower if I've forgotten a medication. Yeah, absolutely, But
22:01
Speaker 2: people don't see that side of things, and I think
22:03
Speaker 2: they only see, you know, like, let's go back to
22:05
Speaker 2: this social media thing. They only see the social media highlights.
22:08
Speaker 2: They only see what you know, I'm putting out on online.
22:11
Speaker 2: I'm not going to get my phone and take a
22:13
Speaker 2: photo of me in bed after three day, like it's
22:15
Speaker 2: just not going to happen, because I'm not in that
22:17
Speaker 2: mental space, Like it's just not going to happen. Yeah,
22:19
Speaker 2: So I think it's it's wild, especially if you've got
22:23
Speaker 2: chronic health condition like your friend. Of course, you're a
22:25
Speaker 2: bit down. You're not being supported in the way that
22:29
Speaker 2: you need to be mentally supported and stimulated.
22:32
Speaker 4: There's another thing that people don't think about when it
22:34
Speaker 4: comes to mental health, and that's the kind of depressures
22:37
Speaker 4: on cares and caregiving. So we know that informal caregiving
22:41
Speaker 4: often falls to family members. But what are the costs
22:44
Speaker 4: of families and carers?
22:46
Speaker 1: Yeah?
22:46
Speaker 2: So, cares for people with mental health conditions spend an
22:49
Speaker 2: average of thirty six hours per week providing care. It's
22:55
Speaker 2: two hours short my love of a full time job.
22:57
Speaker 4: Wow wow wow.
22:58
Speaker 2: Twenty four percent receive care as payments, thirty four percent
23:03
Speaker 2: don't receive any assistance in their caring role, and thirty
23:06
Speaker 2: five percent don't know the services that are available to
23:09
Speaker 2: support keres, which is the number that I really want
23:11
Speaker 2: to focus on here. So I just they don't know
23:15
Speaker 2: what they don't know because we don't talk about it.
23:17
Speaker 2: And then if we don't talk about it, you don't
23:19
Speaker 2: know what you can access exactly. Have these conversations. And
23:23
Speaker 2: the more we normalize this, the more we can advocate
23:26
Speaker 2: for others as well. And I think that, you know,
23:29
Speaker 2: especially when it comes to mental health, there's such a
23:32
Speaker 2: stigma around it still where if somebody is experiencing depression
23:37
Speaker 2: and anxiety, they might not want to talk about it,
23:40
Speaker 2: and then that might extend to their care. And like
23:43
Speaker 2: a care could be your husband, it could be your sibling,
23:46
Speaker 2: it could be a parent, it could be literally anybody.
23:48
Speaker 2: It could be your housemate that kind of picks up
23:50
Speaker 2: the slack when you won't get out of bed, and
23:52
Speaker 2: they then don't talk about it because they know that
23:54
Speaker 2: you're a bit like closed off and don't really want
23:57
Speaker 2: to talk about the issues. And then that extends to
23:59
Speaker 2: them not being able to get the support that they need,
24:01
Speaker 2: and then maybe they're experiencing their own mental health conditions
24:05
Speaker 2: because they feel like they aren't open and honest about
24:08
Speaker 2: the realities of their circumstance. So I think it's just
24:11
Speaker 2: it goes on and on, and it's a cycle that
24:12
Speaker 2: we really need to break, and we really need to
24:15
Speaker 2: talk about more honestly and more openly and with a
24:18
Speaker 2: lot more kindness than we currently approach to totally.
24:20
Speaker 4: Let's end the taboo, but I think this is a
24:23
Speaker 4: really heavy topic. Let's go have a little break and
24:25
Speaker 4: come back in five point two seconds.
24:34
Speaker 2: All right, V we are back.
24:36
Speaker 4: How do you feel I feel like that was longer
24:38
Speaker 4: than five point two seconds. That was a little bit
24:40
Speaker 4: longer than five point I feel like it's five point seven. Yeah, Okay,
24:42
Speaker 4: so maybe next time we'll shorten it.
24:44
Speaker 2: You know what, I'm going to stay on the counting
24:46
Speaker 2: side of the table. You say on the content side
24:48
Speaker 2: of the table. I'll do the maths. You're not involved
24:51
Speaker 2: in that deal because at this point, I'm not even
24:53
Speaker 2: sure if you can tell the time.
24:55
Speaker 4: I don't know what time. So so let's have a
24:59
Speaker 4: little bit more of a closer look as some of
25:01
Speaker 4: the costs and stats and breakdown specific disorders.
25:06
Speaker 2: Okay, all right, so let's talk about effective disorders. So
25:08
Speaker 2: effective disorders are things like depression, bipolar, and schizophrenia. The
25:13
Speaker 2: cost of depression is seventeen one hundred and ninety dollars
25:18
Speaker 2: on average per individual. Average number of days off from
25:22
Speaker 2: work each year if you have an effective disorder adds
25:26
Speaker 2: up to seventy five point four days per year. Back,
25:31
Speaker 2: do you know how many sick days most people get
25:32
Speaker 2: in their work contracts? Barely anything ten Usually you get
25:36
Speaker 2: ten sick days. That is seven times more than the
25:40
Speaker 2: average that we are allocated. Fewer than two in five
25:44
Speaker 2: people with anxiety and depression seek treatment, and recovery rate
25:49
Speaker 2: is actually up to fifty percent in the first six months,
25:52
Speaker 2: but the relapse rate is between thirty and fifty percent
25:56
Speaker 2: for those who initially recover, which ends up putting a
25:59
Speaker 2: lot of people in a cycle of feeling like it's
26:02
Speaker 2: never going to get better. And as much as those
26:05
Speaker 2: numbers feel low, they're actually, from my perspective, relatively high.
26:11
Speaker 2: Indirect spending for effective disorders includes non health services and
26:15
Speaker 2: social costs, so family breakdowns, going through a diporse, legal costs,
26:19
Speaker 2: stuff like that. If an individual were paying four hundred
26:22
Speaker 2: and fifty dollars per session for psychiatric treatment weekly, which
26:27
Speaker 2: is a very normal amount of money, unfortunately to be
26:31
Speaker 2: spending on seeing a psychiatrist, which my background is in psychology.
26:36
Speaker 2: I have two psychology degrees, so I do know what
26:38
Speaker 2: I'm talking about. When it comes to this, A psychologist
26:41
Speaker 2: is not able to prescribe medication. A psychiatrist is. A
26:45
Speaker 2: psychologist can talk you through things and you know, help
26:49
Speaker 2: you get through a lot of situations. I see a
26:51
Speaker 2: psychologist regularly, but when it comes to managing my ADHD,
26:54
Speaker 2: and when it comes to managing my depression, which is
26:58
Speaker 2: always going to be with me, I see a side
27:00
Speaker 2: psychiatrist because I am on medications that have been prescribed
27:04
Speaker 2: by my psychiatrist. So you can't go to a psychologist
27:07
Speaker 2: and they go, oh, I'm going to diagnose you with depression.
27:10
Speaker 2: Here's medication for that. They don't do that. So if
27:13
Speaker 2: you have an effective disorder and you are on a
27:15
Speaker 2: medication for that, or you are clinically diagnosed, you actually
27:20
Speaker 2: have to see a psychiatrist. So this isn't like a choice, right,
27:23
Speaker 2: But it can be about four hundred and fifty dollars
27:26
Speaker 2: a session. We're using that number because it seems to
27:29
Speaker 2: be an average and it's actually what I pay to
27:32
Speaker 2: see my psychiatrist. They would be two hundred and ninety
27:36
Speaker 2: six dollars per session out of pocket because you get
27:39
Speaker 2: one hundred and fifty four dollars on a Medicare rebate
27:42
Speaker 2: for that session. After the seventh week of treatment, the
27:45
Speaker 2: individual would have already reached the Medicare safety net threshold,
27:48
Speaker 2: which is two thousand and ninety three dollars and thirty
27:51
Speaker 2: cents out of pocket in seven weeks. That is so awful.
27:58
Speaker 4: The can you imagine, like the costs just add up,
28:02
Speaker 4: like how do you survive?
28:04
Speaker 2: How do you feed you? How do you afford that?
28:05
Speaker 2: How you afford to live? And then but also like
28:08
Speaker 2: that's rent money, that's red money.
28:09
Speaker 4: But imagine like you had a full time job, so
28:12
Speaker 4: you could technically be affording all of these things if.
28:14
Speaker 2: You hadn't really want I don't think people like people
28:16
Speaker 2: might be paying for it. But there's a difference between
28:19
Speaker 2: being able to pay for something and being able to
28:20
Speaker 2: afford it. So you're saying you're affording it, you're able
28:24
Speaker 2: to service every other goal in your life, and that
28:26
Speaker 2: is not impacting those things. No, But from my perspective,
28:30
Speaker 2: even if you have an emergency fund and then you
28:32
Speaker 2: have to see a psychiatrist on a weekly basis and
28:34
Speaker 2: you're spending four hundred and fifty dollars a week, you're
28:37
Speaker 2: technically able to pay for it, but you're not able
28:39
Speaker 2: to afford it because your bigger goals aren't being met.
28:42
Speaker 2: You might not be saving, you might not be investing
28:44
Speaker 2: for your future. You might not you know, you might
28:46
Speaker 2: be foregoing social activities or other things that are helpful
28:50
Speaker 2: for your mental health. And I think we've all been there, right, Like,
28:53
Speaker 2: I shouldn't see it this way, but I always see
28:55
Speaker 2: it as like a may cost and you shouldn't do
28:57
Speaker 2: this right Like I always go, oh, my gosh, well
28:59
Speaker 2: I had a psych appointment or psychiatrist appointment this week. No,
29:03
Speaker 2: I won't buy a pilates pass this week. I think
29:06
Speaker 2: I might wait a bit because that was an expensive
29:09
Speaker 2: week when in reality the vallarates pass and me getting
29:12
Speaker 2: physical activity is probably equally as important. But I see
29:16
Speaker 2: it as a different like, I see it as a choice,
29:18
Speaker 2: and it shouldn't be like that was a cost I
29:20
Speaker 2: had to incur. So I think it's really interesting and
29:23
Speaker 2: that's why often you end up with mixed care so
29:26
Speaker 2: often when you have a mental health condition. And I
29:30
Speaker 2: mean disclaimer again, this is just anecdotal personal experience. I'm
29:34
Speaker 2: not a doctor, and I'm not recommending that this is
29:36
Speaker 2: the right mode of care. But my GP knows how
29:40
Speaker 2: expensive my psychiatrist is, so he keeps in contact with
29:43
Speaker 2: my psychiatrist, and my psychiatrist sees me wow, maybe once
29:47
Speaker 2: every six months to approve my medications, and then I
29:50
Speaker 2: go every three months to my GP to get prescribed
29:53
Speaker 2: to my medications. But then I don't have to go
29:55
Speaker 2: to the expensive psychiatrist appointment so often. But then on
29:58
Speaker 2: top of that, I have a psycho cologist as well,
30:01
Speaker 2: that's in that mix that I guess do the more
30:04
Speaker 2: therapy side of things with, like we don't really talk
30:07
Speaker 2: about medication, Like my psychiatrist's quite quite transactional. You could say,
30:12
Speaker 2: it's kind of like a GP appointment. We do talk
30:14
Speaker 2: about my mental health, but I'm not talking about how I'm
30:16
Speaker 2: feeling or what I'm doing, because she checks in with
30:19
Speaker 2: my psychologist to make sure I'm on track with that.
30:21
Speaker 2: So you often end up with not just one psychiatrist appointment.
30:24
Speaker 2: You've got GP, you've got psychologists, you've got psychiatrists, and
30:27
Speaker 2: they all mix together, and then that becomes even more
30:30
Speaker 2: expensive and you cap out your medicare rebate real quick.
30:32
Speaker 2: I'm telling you that right now, isn't it wild? That's
30:34
Speaker 2: really wild?
30:35
Speaker 4: And let's say in a hypothetical world you made trillions
30:39
Speaker 4: of dollars per hour and you could afford all of
30:42
Speaker 4: those things. But that's only if you get to go
30:47
Speaker 4: to work every single day and you don't use up
30:49
Speaker 4: you're sickly, you know that, Like when you're hungover or
30:52
Speaker 4: just feeling tired and you can't go into work. Imagine
30:55
Speaker 4: that time's a trillion, but you have to go to
30:58
Speaker 4: work every single day. You have ten days of sick
31:01
Speaker 4: leave per year, but you feel like that all the time.
31:04
Speaker 4: That's your reality, and you've got to pay for all
31:07
Speaker 4: these things. How are you meant to work and just
31:10
Speaker 4: survive and go into work every day and like be
31:12
Speaker 4: your best self if you're feeling so like you just can't,
31:16
Speaker 4: you just can't.
31:16
Speaker 2: It's kind of like people who experience chronic pain conditions,
31:20
Speaker 2: they just exactly so used to managing it that that
31:23
Speaker 2: becomes the new normal and the new expectation. And it's
31:26
Speaker 2: not right. It's not right, and when something else goes wrong,
31:31
Speaker 2: they compare it and so like, I've got a few
31:34
Speaker 2: friends and even family members with chronic health conditions, and
31:37
Speaker 2: it's interesting because if something else goes wrong, and I'm
31:40
Speaker 2: going to use an example that I'm making up, but
31:43
Speaker 2: like chronic health condition, let's call it really really awful
31:46
Speaker 2: back pain. It's consistent, it's crippling. But then they break
31:49
Speaker 2: their ankle. It's not that bad, but it like literally
31:53
Speaker 2: changes the way that they're living their life. But in comparison,
31:55
Speaker 2: they're kind of like, oh, it's not that bad in comparison,
31:57
Speaker 2: like I got it all, passed it up. She'll be right,
32:00
Speaker 2: what anybody else breaking their ankle would be like, this is,
32:03
Speaker 2: you know, life ending. I can't believe this. I'm in
32:05
Speaker 2: a cast for the next six to eight weeks. Like,
32:07
Speaker 2: you know, there's so much I need to do and
32:08
Speaker 2: then I need to do rehab. They just don't see
32:10
Speaker 2: it as that big of a deal. And that's not okay,
32:13
Speaker 2: Like it's not okay to be in that position because
32:15
Speaker 2: you should be mentally well and you should be you know,
32:18
Speaker 2: able to be fit and healthy and happy in all
32:21
Speaker 2: of those things, and are just Yeah, it really frustrates me.
32:24
Speaker 2: Like sometimes I want to shake these people and be
32:26
Speaker 2: like it's actually okay that that's a bad thing. Like
32:28
Speaker 2: we can say it's a bad thing, and like don't
32:30
Speaker 2: compare it or compartmentalize it in the way that you
32:33
Speaker 2: are totally Moving on to another disorder. Let's talk about
32:37
Speaker 2: anxiety disorders, so that's things like panic, angoraphobia, social phobia,
32:41
Speaker 2: generalized anxiety, obsessive compulsive disorder, and post traumatic stress disorder.
32:47
Speaker 2: Average individual cost is between one hundred and eighty six
32:50
Speaker 2: dollars and two hundred and sixty four dollars if combined
32:54
Speaker 2: with another disorder. The average number of days off per
32:58
Speaker 2: year are fifty three point six days per year, so
33:02
Speaker 2: a bit less than depression. But also we need to
33:04
Speaker 2: recognize comorbidity exists so often if you have anxiety, the
33:10
Speaker 2: likelihood of you having depression is increased. As I mentioned before,
33:14
Speaker 2: I have both like poor Ken or lost Doss. There
33:17
Speaker 2: is for anxiety disorders a fifty to sixty percent recovery
33:20
Speaker 2: rate and a fifty to sixty six percent relapse rate
33:26
Speaker 2: of those who initially recover, which again makes you feel
33:29
Speaker 2: like you're stuck in a cy call. And that's not
33:32
Speaker 2: call at all. No, that would be very, very, very
33:36
Speaker 2: tricky to live with. I'm sorry, pee, No, don't be sorry.
33:39
Speaker 2: I'm okay. I'm literally okay, And I just see it
33:41
Speaker 2: as part of me and I'm okay. We're just talking
33:43
Speaker 2: about the costs, and I think that it's really important.
33:45
Speaker 2: And I don't want people to listen to this and
33:47
Speaker 2: think the Victoria is trying to make this all about her. No,
33:50
Speaker 2: I don't think that's the case at all. I just
33:52
Speaker 2: believe that the best way of, you know, breaking down
33:57
Speaker 2: stigma is actually to open the doors and open the
34:00
Speaker 2: conversation up around yourself and as somebody who I'm just
34:04
Speaker 2: grateful to be in this position where you do get
34:06
Speaker 2: to talk to you guys about these things. I can't
34:08
Speaker 2: just stand here and be like, it's important to talk
34:10
Speaker 2: about mental health back because you'd be like, cool, Victoria.
34:13
Speaker 2: Everybody else is saying that. But if I go, it's
34:16
Speaker 2: important to talk about mental health and I actually experience
34:19
Speaker 2: these things. Here's my experience. This is what this looks like.
34:21
Speaker 2: You go, wow, I didn't realize. You know that not
34:25
Speaker 2: only will there be psychiatric cost, but a psychologist and
34:27
Speaker 2: your GP involved, and they'd be like this mix in
34:30
Speaker 2: this triangle of people that have to talk to one
34:32
Speaker 2: another to manage your condition. Like, I just think it's
34:35
Speaker 2: so much more practical to have practical and pragmatic conversation
34:41
Speaker 2: where it's just like, well, Beck, it is what it is.
34:43
Speaker 2: Moving on to substance use disorders. So average individual cost
34:47
Speaker 2: is between one hundred and eighty six and two hundred
34:50
Speaker 2: and fifty eight dollars per year if combined with another disorder,
34:54
Speaker 2: and the average number of days off per week are
34:56
Speaker 2: forty point two days per year. Recovery rate is up
35:00
Speaker 2: to eighty percent, which is Chef's kiss. Could be higher,
35:03
Speaker 2: but that's you know, they're the numbers we want to
35:05
Speaker 2: start saying. Unfortunately, relapse rate is between forty and sixty percent,
35:10
Speaker 2: and people with substance use disorders are often frequent users.
35:14
Speaker 2: Of psychiatric services. Although many services are publicly funded, there
35:19
Speaker 2: are still and there may still be payment gaps for
35:21
Speaker 2: individuals seeking counseling or medication or rehabilitation centers and self
35:25
Speaker 2: help programs or support networks. The other thing I want
35:29
Speaker 2: to say about substance use disorders is I guess the
35:34
Speaker 2: underlying cost of the substance that you have a dependency on,
35:38
Speaker 2: because obviously, when it comes to depression, like I'm not
35:41
Speaker 2: going out and getting a substance that is costing me
35:43
Speaker 2: a lot of money that results in depression, I am.
35:46
Speaker 2: You know, if you have a substance use disorder, it's
35:49
Speaker 2: usually really expensive, especially here in Australia, Like it's not
35:53
Speaker 2: accessible obviously for good reasons because usually they're illegal. But
35:58
Speaker 2: it's one of those things where that average individual cost
36:02
Speaker 2: is not including how much you're spending on those substances,
36:05
Speaker 2: and that can be financially crippling for many, many people.
36:10
Speaker 2: And obviously there's a lot of conversation around that, because
36:14
Speaker 2: substance use disorders are the disorder that leads to the
36:18
Speaker 2: highest levels of homelessness in Australia, and obviously there's a
36:22
Speaker 2: lot of comorbidity there as well. When it comes to
36:25
Speaker 2: having another disorder. Moving on to the topic and the
36:30
Speaker 2: I guess subheading of suicide beck Suicide is the leading
36:33
Speaker 2: cause of death for Australians between the ages of fifteen
36:37
Speaker 2: and forty four, and is the second leading cause of
36:41
Speaker 2: death for Australians aged forty five to fifty four years old.
36:45
Speaker 2: That is pretty opening.
36:47
Speaker 4: I had.
36:47
Speaker 2: It is no idea that it was so high. It's
36:51
Speaker 2: insane because suicide, I think doesn't get the conversation happening
36:56
Speaker 2: around it that it deserves. And I mean, there are
36:58
Speaker 2: so many beautiful charities and forums that discuss this, but
37:03
Speaker 2: we just don't discuss it as a community as a whole.
37:07
Speaker 2: It's kind of like, oh, yeap, let's talk about Beyond
37:09
Speaker 2: Blue and the work that they're doing. But I feel
37:11
Speaker 2: like it's always really niched down to a particular campaign.
37:15
Speaker 2: It's not an ongoing conversation, and suicide is an outcome
37:20
Speaker 2: of mental health conditions and all the conversations that we've
37:24
Speaker 2: just had and all of the disorders that we've been
37:27
Speaker 2: talking about today, they lead to or can lead to
37:32
Speaker 2: suicide and somebody going through that process. And I just
37:35
Speaker 2: think that we need to care about these things. More
37:38
Speaker 2: because people just deserve more from our community. We we
37:42
Speaker 2: really really do.
37:43
Speaker 4: I completely agree with that. Now, just moving on slightly,
37:48
Speaker 4: Can we now talk about mental health care plans?
37:51
Speaker 2: How the hell do they work? Absolutely? We can, and
37:54
Speaker 2: I am the biggest advocate of a mental health care plan.
37:57
Speaker 2: We talked when Rhann and Tracy was on on our
38:00
Speaker 2: episode a lot about insurance and the importance of insurance.
38:04
Speaker 2: And I think that the first thing I want you
38:06
Speaker 2: to do as a human being. I'm not saying before
38:09
Speaker 2: a mental health care plan, but I am saying you
38:12
Speaker 2: need to consider your personal insurance needs sooner rather than later.
38:16
Speaker 2: And the reason I say that is because insurers in
38:19
Speaker 2: Australia take into consideration exclusions, right. So an exclusion is
38:23
Speaker 2: where they don't include something in your insurance cover. So, Beck,
38:27
Speaker 2: you might have broken your ankle a couple of times
38:30
Speaker 2: playing netball, and then you go and do your survey
38:33
Speaker 2: to get new insurance and they go, Beck, if you
38:35
Speaker 2: got any health conditions and you say, nah, got nothing.
38:38
Speaker 2: If you had anything happen to you historically, and you go, yep,
38:40
Speaker 2: broke my ankle playing netball. And then they come back
38:43
Speaker 2: and say, no worries, Beck, We would love to ensure you,
38:47
Speaker 2: but here are our conditions. What we're going to do.
38:50
Speaker 2: We're going to insure your whole body and your whole mind,
38:52
Speaker 2: but we're not going to ensure that one ankle, and
38:55
Speaker 2: we're not going to want to do to do with
38:57
Speaker 2: the air. Don't want anything to do with the ankle
38:59
Speaker 2: because you've already broken once. So because it's already been
39:02
Speaker 2: broken once, it's a bit compromised. It means that you're
39:05
Speaker 2: more likely to break it again. So we just don't
39:07
Speaker 2: want that. And you go, all right, Well, when it
39:08
Speaker 2: comes to insurance, that makes sense, right, Like it's kind
39:11
Speaker 2: of like car insurance. If you're a bad driver and
39:13
Speaker 2: you keep crashing, they're gonna say, probably going to charge
39:17
Speaker 2: you a little bit more. Beck, your premiums are going
39:19
Speaker 2: to go up because you keep crashing. Yeah, you're a
39:22
Speaker 2: bit of a Risk's a bit of a risk, right,
39:24
Speaker 2: And that's exactly how personal insurances work. And there are
39:27
Speaker 2: lots of different risks involved in personal insurance. But the
39:30
Speaker 2: younger you are when you apply for personal insurance, the
39:34
Speaker 2: less likely you have experienced a significant life and health event,
39:38
Speaker 2: which means the less likely you are to have exclusions
39:42
Speaker 2: in your cover, so hypothetically, in the future, you can
39:46
Speaker 2: claim on more stuff. I want insurance to be the
39:49
Speaker 2: biggest waste of money you've ever spent money on, beck, Like,
39:52
Speaker 2: I want you to be paying for insurance every single month,
39:54
Speaker 2: and I want you to look at that cost and
39:55
Speaker 2: be like, didn't claim on that. That's not great? Like,
39:58
Speaker 2: I want it to be a waste of money. I
40:00
Speaker 2: see what you mean. I want you to be wasting
40:02
Speaker 2: your money on insurance. Wow. But hypothetically, if something did
40:06
Speaker 2: happen to you yesterday and you needed to I want
40:09
Speaker 2: that cover to be there.
40:10
Speaker 1: Yea.
40:10
Speaker 2: And I think that framing it that way, people go, oh, okay,
40:14
Speaker 2: because how many times have you looked at your insurance
40:16
Speaker 2: You go, that's a lot of money. But also, I'm
40:17
Speaker 2: getting nothing out of this good Yes, true.
40:21
Speaker 5: I don't want you to get anything out of your
40:23
Speaker 5: insurance because if you're not claiming on your personal insurances,
40:26
Speaker 5: you know what that means. You're probably happy and healthy
40:30
Speaker 5: and haven't broken anything and haven't been hit by a bus,
40:33
Speaker 5: and haven't had these awful things happen to you.
40:36
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a life win. True. Stop seeing it as
40:39
Speaker 2: a money loss. That is so true. The segue to
40:44
Speaker 2: this is I really want you to think about insurance
40:47
Speaker 2: now and today and care about it, because the sooner
40:49
Speaker 2: you get it implemented, the less likely you are to
40:53
Speaker 2: have a pre existing health condition taken into consideration. And
40:57
Speaker 2: I say this before a mental health care plan because
41:01
Speaker 2: over the last I would say seven years since the
41:05
Speaker 2: Royal Commission, and everything about financial advice and insurances, really
41:08
Speaker 2: I guess got shook up. You could say, mental health
41:12
Speaker 2: care plans are seen by insurers and they do take
41:16
Speaker 2: them into consideration. We're offering you cover and it's a
41:19
Speaker 2: really shitty thing that I have to say that I
41:22
Speaker 2: really want you to be insured before you go down
41:24
Speaker 2: this pathway because it breaks my heart, or it used
41:27
Speaker 2: to break my heart every single time I had to
41:29
Speaker 2: sit down with a client and say, I know that
41:33
Speaker 2: you did the right thing for you, and you went
41:35
Speaker 2: and got a mental health care plan, and now you
41:38
Speaker 2: are healthy and you are happy, and you're not even
41:40
Speaker 2: seeing anyone and you're not even on any medications. But
41:45
Speaker 2: when we did your medical history, the insurer came back
41:48
Speaker 2: and said that you were on a mental health care plan,
41:50
Speaker 2: so we're young covering you for mental health in your
41:52
Speaker 2: insurance Oh my, isn't that good? Isn't that just like
41:56
Speaker 2: the most messed up thing ever? And it pisces me off,
41:59
Speaker 2: and I understand the risk behind it. I can see
42:02
Speaker 2: it from both sides. I can understand that as an insurer,
42:06
Speaker 2: mental health is becoming and I won't say mental health
42:09
Speaker 2: issues are becoming more prevalent, because I think that they've
42:12
Speaker 2: been there all the time, but we are now getting
42:15
Speaker 2: the help that we deserve for them. And that is
42:18
Speaker 2: costing insurer's money because you're claiming on your income protection
42:21
Speaker 2: to take time off work to put you first, and
42:24
Speaker 2: you should be able to do that. But when it
42:26
Speaker 2: comes to an insurer, their job is to kind of
42:29
Speaker 2: manage risk. And there's people called underwriters and their job
42:32
Speaker 2: is to have a look at the risk. And now,
42:33
Speaker 2: I guess weigh up the pros and cons of offering
42:36
Speaker 2: Beck cover and if you have had mental health conditions
42:40
Speaker 2: historically and seen a GP and then maybe seen a
42:42
Speaker 2: psychiatrist for it, they're going to look at that and go, Okay, cool,
42:46
Speaker 2: you know what, Beck, We're not going to offer it
42:48
Speaker 2: to you. Maybe we can reconsider this in two years.
42:51
Speaker 2: But if it's something like I have sat down with
42:53
Speaker 2: clients who have attempted suicide, and then because they've attempted suicide,
42:59
Speaker 2: it's just an instant decline on mental health cover. Do
43:03
Speaker 2: you know what. There's nothing else to say about it
43:05
Speaker 2: except it's really shitty. And I hate the fact that,
43:07
Speaker 2: as an ex financial advisor, when you ask me about
43:10
Speaker 2: a mental health care plan, and I promise I'm about
43:13
Speaker 2: to explain exactly how they work. But I hate that
43:15
Speaker 2: I have to go on a tangent because I feel
43:18
Speaker 2: like it's the most responsible thing for me to do
43:20
Speaker 2: to say mental health care plans are really important. Please
43:23
Speaker 2: talk to your GP. Please get the health care that
43:26
Speaker 2: you absolutely deserve and need, but please make sure that
43:29
Speaker 2: you have the insurances you need first, because if you
43:31
Speaker 2: go down that route, there is a very big probability
43:34
Speaker 2: that by disclosing that you have had a mental health
43:36
Speaker 2: care plan, you might get an exclusion. That is very
43:38
Speaker 2: solid advice. It's fortunately awful. It's unfortunate because you shouldn't
43:42
Speaker 2: be thinking about your mental health right now and going, oh, well,
43:45
Speaker 2: I'm feeling pretty terrible. I should go to the doctor.
43:47
Speaker 2: But Victoria said, let's get our insurances sorted. Let's not
43:51
Speaker 2: do that. Let's be mentally healthy today and go and
43:53
Speaker 2: get our insurances sorted so if we experience anything in
43:56
Speaker 2: the future, we don't have pre existing conditions on our
43:59
Speaker 2: insurance application.
44:00
Speaker 4: Sure.
44:01
Speaker 2: Back to your question, though, Beck, you asked a very
44:03
Speaker 2: good question. Actually not back to that. You guys are
44:06
Speaker 2: going to slide into my DMS and say I need insurance,
44:09
Speaker 2: and I'm going to reply, Please go talk to my
44:11
Speaker 2: friend Phil at Sky Wealth. He's not paying me to
44:14
Speaker 2: say this. I just don't want to reply to six
44:17
Speaker 2: hundred different dms of people going Victoria. You talked about
44:20
Speaker 2: the importance of getting insurance sorted. Phil is a financial
44:24
Speaker 2: advice friend that I have had for many, many years now.
44:27
Speaker 2: He used to run a full service financial advice business
44:31
Speaker 2: and decided that he was really passionate about insurance and
44:35
Speaker 2: now does insurance only advice. And for I think it's
44:38
Speaker 2: between three and four hundred dollars are his fees. So
44:40
Speaker 2: he's not going to charge you what a holistic financial
44:44
Speaker 2: advisor would charge to implement your insurances, which would be
44:46
Speaker 2: around three and a half to five thousand dollars. Wow,
44:49
Speaker 2: he is a lot cheaper because all he does is insurance.
44:52
Speaker 2: So if you want to go to him and start investing.
44:53
Speaker 2: He's not going to do that. He's just going to say, cool,
44:55
Speaker 2: don't do that. All he does is insurance, and his
44:58
Speaker 2: team are structured and make that as accessible as possible.
45:02
Speaker 2: And if you know somebody else that runs a business
45:05
Speaker 2: like Phil's where his financial advice is actually relatively accessible
45:10
Speaker 2: in terms of cost, please let me know, because I
45:13
Speaker 2: do not know anybody else running a business as accessible
45:16
Speaker 2: as Phil at this point with the quality of advice
45:19
Speaker 2: associated with it. So that's yeah, that's my plug. I
45:23
Speaker 2: know that that sounds really salesy, and it kind of was. No,
45:26
Speaker 2: it was meant to because I want you to get insurance.
45:28
Speaker 2: Oh okay, like it was. It was meant to because
45:30
Speaker 2: I wanted you to get insurance. But also I just
45:32
Speaker 2: wanted to be really transparent about who feels he's like,
45:35
Speaker 2: he's a nice guy. That's fair. Anyway, you asked a question,
45:38
Speaker 2: and the question was Victoria, can we now talk about
45:41
Speaker 2: mental health care plan? Please?
45:42
Speaker 1: Like?
45:43
Speaker 2: Yeah, no worries. So if you would like a mental
45:46
Speaker 2: health care plan, your GP can write you want. It's
45:49
Speaker 2: very simple. You don't even need to I think you
45:52
Speaker 2: do actually need to went booking. Let your like GP
45:55
Speaker 2: know that it's going to be a bit of a
45:56
Speaker 2: longer appointment. You can't just book the fifteen minute one
45:58
Speaker 2: because you do actually need to do a bit of
46:00
Speaker 2: a survey, so just heads up on that. From the
46:03
Speaker 2: first of January twenty twenty three, with a mental health
46:05
Speaker 2: care plan, you're able to access a total of ten
46:09
Speaker 2: Medicare rebates for your appointments with your clinician in this
46:14
Speaker 2: calendar year. So calendar not financial sets in December yep.
46:20
Speaker 2: At the end of December. If you have sessions remaining
46:23
Speaker 2: on an existing mental health care plan and current referrals
46:27
Speaker 2: for your sessions from twenty twenty two, whether for the
46:31
Speaker 2: initial ten or an additional ten, you'll be able to
46:35
Speaker 2: use the referral to access up to ten sessions in
46:39
Speaker 2: twenty twenty three without having to go back to your GP,
46:41
Speaker 2: which is good. That is very good. Typically, following six
46:45
Speaker 2: Medicare rebated appointments, your clinician is going to write a
46:48
Speaker 2: progress report relating to your treatment goals and you're going
46:52
Speaker 2: to or you will be eligible to get a re
46:54
Speaker 2: referral from your doctor for an extra for Medicare rebated appointments,
46:59
Speaker 2: which does of another trip to the GP. Following the
47:02
Speaker 2: four extra Medicare rebated sessions, your clinician will write a
47:06
Speaker 2: further treatment update to your doctor and it will go
47:09
Speaker 2: from there. So, how much does this cost this she's
47:12
Speaker 2: on the money back, I'm dying to know. If you
47:15
Speaker 2: qualify for the Mental Health Care Plan, you'll be eligible
47:18
Speaker 2: to receive a Medicare rebate of one hundred and thirty
47:21
Speaker 2: one dollars and sixty five cents for an appointment with
47:23
Speaker 2: a clinical psychologist or eighty nine dollars and sixty five
47:28
Speaker 2: cent Medicare rebate for an appointment with a psychologist. Note
47:33
Speaker 2: the difference between clinical psychologist and psychologist there. Oh yeah,
47:38
Speaker 2: you're psychiatrist. Yeah, it's important that there's a differentiation there.
47:43
Speaker 2: If you are booking an appointment and you just google
47:46
Speaker 2: Medicare rebate with psychologist and it comes up as one
47:48
Speaker 2: hundred and thirty one and then, yeah, you just don't
47:50
Speaker 2: want to get those two mixed up in case you're
47:53
Speaker 2: not getting the rebate that you're expecting. If you're like budgeting, okay,
47:57
Speaker 2: this Medicare rebate amount will increase once you reach your
48:00
Speaker 2: individual slash Family Extended Medicare Safety Net threshold of two thousand,
48:05
Speaker 2: two hundred and forty nine dollars eighty, which is the
48:08
Speaker 2: general threshold where you will then receive back eighty percent
48:12
Speaker 2: of the out of pocket expenses for your ongoing sessions
48:14
Speaker 2: with a psychologist.
48:16
Speaker 4: Okay, on paper, I think that's good.
48:18
Speaker 2: On paper, it is good. I mean, still an expense.
48:21
Speaker 2: It's still an expense. I've said this before on the podcast.
48:25
Speaker 2: I'm very grateful to live in Australia with the healthcare
48:28
Speaker 2: system that we have because we are so incredibly supported.
48:32
Speaker 2: Is it the best healthcare system in the entire world? No,
48:35
Speaker 2: there's better out there, Like, yeah, feelin's amazing. I may
48:40
Speaker 2: no way Norway. Oh, so the government pays for us.
48:44
Speaker 2: So it's not it's not as though, you know, their
48:46
Speaker 2: psychologists are cheaper or anything like that. It's just their
48:50
Speaker 2: governments have put more of a priority on having no
48:53
Speaker 2: gap healthcare and so they cover that it would be
48:56
Speaker 2: included in their taxes. I see, at the end of
48:59
Speaker 2: the day, they are paying taxes, and that's what their
49:01
Speaker 2: taxes are going towards. And I mean when it comes
49:03
Speaker 2: to like our Medicare rebates and stuff, that's what our
49:05
Speaker 2: taxes go towards. Yeah. So the money has to come
49:08
Speaker 2: from somewhere. Yeah, So I guess talking about this stuff
49:11
Speaker 2: is really important to me because I care a lot
49:14
Speaker 2: about our community, I care a lot about mental health,
49:17
Speaker 2: and I care a lot about making sure that you
49:19
Speaker 2: are well protected. And that's why I went on that
49:21
Speaker 2: insurance rant. I'll pop a whole heap of details in
49:24
Speaker 2: the show notes. If that's something that you're like, oh, Vian,
49:26
Speaker 2: I hadn't really considered it. I really think it's important,
49:30
Speaker 2: But I also think it's important to continue this conversation
49:34
Speaker 2: beyond just us doing an episode on a zeric white paper,
49:37
Speaker 2: like I think the white paper they're so sexy, like
49:40
Speaker 2: so sexy. I've read it so many times. I can't
49:42
Speaker 2: tell you how many times I've forwarded it because it's
49:45
Speaker 2: in a PDF. I've shared it with heaps of my friends.
49:48
Speaker 2: I've sent it to advisors who are like, Victoria, I've
49:50
Speaker 2: redaceen this and I'm like, yeah, but read it again.
49:54
Speaker 2: It's really really helpful. But I think that from this
49:57
Speaker 2: what we should be doing is really opening the conversation
49:59
Speaker 2: up about the cost of mental health. And we don't
50:02
Speaker 2: have time today, but we will continue this conversation in
50:05
Speaker 2: our Facebook group. And we have honest, non judgmental conversations
50:09
Speaker 2: about what is costing you and what is costing our community.
50:13
Speaker 2: And you know, what are your hacks and tips and
50:15
Speaker 2: tricks and all of that. I want to know absolutely.
50:18
Speaker 4: And also if this conversation has negatively impacted you, please
50:22
Speaker 4: reach out to your would you say GP for any advice.
50:26
Speaker 2: You reach out to your GP will pop some resources
50:29
Speaker 2: in the show, not as we always.
50:31
Speaker 4: Do, exactly, but yeah, I think this has been really good,
50:34
Speaker 4: heavy but good conversation that needs to happen. So I
50:38
Speaker 4: feel like, let's go and absorb this.
50:41
Speaker 2: Usually do exactly, I guess leaving it here. Your mental
50:44
Speaker 2: health does not define you as a human beings exactly right,
50:47
Speaker 2: full stop, end of story. We love you and we
50:49
Speaker 2: hope that you have the best day ever and we
50:51
Speaker 2: will see you for Friday drinks on Friday.
50:54
Speaker 4: Bye guys.
51:01
Speaker 2: The advice shared on She's on the Money is general
51:04
Speaker 2: in nature and does not consider your individual circumstances. She's
51:08
Speaker 2: on the Money exists purely for educational purposes and should
51:11
Speaker 2: not be relied upon to make an investment or financial decision.
51:15
Speaker 2: If you do choose to buy a financial product, read
51:17
Speaker 2: the pds TMD and obtain appropriate financial advice tailored towards
51:21
Speaker 2: your needs. Victoria Divine and She's on the Money are
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