Latest / Cry It Out Loud: Navigating Infertility, Miscarriage, Stillbirth, Infant Loss & Pregnancy After Loss / From Infertility & Baby Loss to Innovation: The Story Behind Hoopsy

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From Infertility & Baby Loss to Innovation: The Story Behind Hoopsy · Cry It Out Loud: Navigating Infertility, Miscarriage, Stillbirth, Infant Loss & Pregnancy After Loss

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Crying Out Loud, a podcast by Chasing the Rainbows with your
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host Bernice Quisenberry. Welcome back to Cry it Out Loud,
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the podcast where we can say what most are afraid to say.
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I'm your host, Bernice, and today we're diving in deep into
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a story of heartbreak, healing and how loss can spark something
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revolutionary. My guest is Lara Sullivan,
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founder of Hoopsie, a company that's changing the way we think
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about pregnancy tests and all different kinds of tests.
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So. But what makes Hoopsie so
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powerful isn't just the eco conscious mission.
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It's the personal story behind it, a story that begins with
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infertility, isolation, and quiet but powerful determination
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to create something meaningful from the pain.
1:00
Lara, thank you so much for joining us.
1:01
And I would love for you to share with our audience more
1:05
about yourself. Thank you.
1:08
It's great to be here. So yeah, I, well, my journey is
1:14
I, I was married and then I got divorced at 33.
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And I thought always got time to find someone and have children.
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And I got to 45 and I hadn't found anyone.
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And I always said, oh, I didn't want to have children on my own.
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But at 45, it's your last chance to basically use your own eggs.
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So I just thought I got to take this chance.
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And so I found a fertility clinic and the chances of
1:38
conceiving with your own eggs at that age is 2%.
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And I kind of now look at that and go, I can't believe I did
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it. 2% seems like nothing. But at the time I felt, well, I
1:50
could be one of those two. You just don't know.
1:52
And you always, you always are on that side of hope.
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And so I did my first egg harvesting.
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We got three eggs. They found out that one of my
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ovaries was perimenopausal. So I only one side was working.
2:05
So one, one of the three eggs was mature enough and it made it
2:08
to got fertilized, but only made it to day three.
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And you need to make it to day 5 before you get put back in.
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And so it just didn't work. And I just thought it was, yeah,
2:20
it was upsetting. It was hard.
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It was, you just don't think it's not going to work.
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You think it's going to work because you always think I'm
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going to be that one of those two percents.
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And so it was, yeah, it was quite surprising and yeah,
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difficult. And, and I was asked then, do I
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want, did I want to go again? And I just thought, what's the
2:44
point in going again just because the chances are so slim
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and even slimmer. Now I know that basically half
2:49
of my body is not working properly.
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So decided that donor embryo was the better option because the
2:57
you got much younger eggs. So actually ended up, I was
3:02
living in Australia at the time and ended up going to Spain, to
3:05
Barcelona to have two donor embryo transfers.
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And the first one was I think the egg donor was 25 years old,
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so still a lot younger than me. But that didn't take at all.
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So I decided I was going to go again.
3:24
And the second time we had, I had an 18 year old egg and it
3:29
got, it did work. I got pregnant but in miscarried
3:34
in miscarried very early, like two weeks after implantation.
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So and you look at the stats and when you get older, obviously
3:45
the chance of miscarriage increase you.
3:49
There's just so many factors. I think the thing that made me
3:52
realise with IVF is that really people don't have any really
3:56
idea about how it works for each person individually.
4:01
The first round of IVF is a bit of a shot in the dark because
4:04
they just do it based on averages.
4:05
And then the second time they know a bit more about you and
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how you react and therefore they change things.
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But it's, it's really hard because you think, oh, the
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chances are so high. And, and on paper they do look
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so high. They look, you know, I think it
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was about 60%. But it's still, there's still so
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many stages you've got to get through.
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So you've got to, you've got to like you do the implantation
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that's got to stick and it's got to stick to the right place as
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in like the lining of your uterus and not somewhere else.
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And then, you know, then it's got to actually grow and stay.
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And I think there's just so many factors in there that we don't
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really realise or know or understand about that whole, you
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know, having a baby, growing a baby inside you.
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And it just, it's hard. And it was, yeah, it was
4:58
upsetting. And still, I mean, I've spoken
5:01
about it a lot. And that was in 2021.
5:03
And so I've spoken about it a lot since then.
5:05
And so it's not as upsetting now.
5:07
But I do remember when I started Hoopsie and I was writing about
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it on my blog post and I just couldn't stop crying.
5:14
And it's, it's, I get it. It's so hard.
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And I don't think it's like anything else that you can go
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through. It's not like, I mean, like for
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me, both my parents died. So that was obviously hard, but
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it wasn't, it's just different to that.
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It's, it's, it's, it's because it's so you're really, really
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hoping for something and then you really think it will happen
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and then it doesn't happen. And but it's just, yeah, it's
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really hard to find words to describe it, but it's just very,
5:43
yeah, very difficult. But that was.
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But in doing that, I realized I didn't really know much about or
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I didn't really haven't really thought much about how, you
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know, pregnancy and people taking tests and everything.
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And but when I went through all this IVF, I've joined a lot of
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these Facebook groups, which were women trying to conceive.
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And I kept seeing all these pictures of people posting up of
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like 1015 tests. And I just thought, wow, I
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didn't realise people use that many.
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And I just looked at all this plastic and I was just like, I
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can't believe there's always plastic and for something you
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literally use for 5 minutes. And I just thought this is
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crazy. And it was, I think my, I did my
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second transfer in August 2021 and it was about September,
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October that year when I thought I kept just couldn't get this
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vision out of my head of all these tests.
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And I just thought I need to do something about it and decided
6:39
that I was going to start a business that sold plastic free
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or majority plastic free pregnancy tests because I felt
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that someone needs to do something.
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And I felt like the industry wasn't going to because if they
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were, they would have done it already and they haven't so.
6:55
Absolutely, Lara. Oh, my goodness.
6:57
Well, just going back to your, you know, story and everything,
7:00
you know, the roller coaster of emotions.
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But it also does say, you know, ever since we're little, like we
7:05
vision having our own families, our own kids, you know, and when
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that doesn't happen, it just completely guts us, you know.
7:13
And so yeah, I think I. Think it's hard as well because
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everyone kept telling me you, you make such a great mom and
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you and everyone like it's not something you tell everyone,
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isn't it? But some people you just think
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that about. And so then when you actually
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don't have children and you don't, you're not a mum.
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It's just like it feels like it just feels unfair.
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It just, I know life's not fair, but it does feel unfair when you
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think about other people that have children that are not fit
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mothers and there's people that want them and could be amazing
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and they just don't get the chance.
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I know and you know, I know we were talking about like our
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infertility journey out in public and things like that.
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Everybody, you know, threw at us, you know, go find a
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surrogate or adopt. Like it was just something so
8:03
easy. You could just go do you know,
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like, oh, couple day process and boom, baby.
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And it's like, it's not like that at all.
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And no, it's not even. Like financially and everything
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is just so hard, yeah. I looked at adoption, I looked
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at fostering, I looked at all of that stuff and the hurdles are
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so high as a partly because I was single, but partly
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financially. So like one of the fostering
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adoption agencies, they were like, I was living in a one
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bedroom apartment. They were like, you need to live
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in a 2 bedroom apartment so that we know there's a room for the
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child. And I was like, but you told me
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it takes six months to get to find a child potentially and
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actually start the adoption. Why would I go and rent a place,
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a 2 bedroom place now where I don't actually have the child?
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But you need to prove to us that you can't afford it.
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And I'm like, well, can't I just show you my bank account?
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Why do I need to spend that money for no reason?
8:59
Exactly. And so there's just some crazy
9:01
like antiquated stuff as well around that whole adoption
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thing. It's not really set up for
9:06
people. And like the other thing I found
9:08
is that they were like, you couldn't for fostering.
9:12
You could, I could foster them, but I couldn't take the children
9:15
out of the country unless I had permission from the parents.
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And at the time I was living in Australia and I'm English and I
9:21
was like, I'd normally go back to the UK for a month every year
9:24
and they're like, well, we wouldn't pay for that.
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And I said, I'm not asking you to pay for it, but I, if I was
9:29
had a child, then I would want to take them with me.
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And they suggested that I just put the child in some special
9:37
like, you know, got them some care for that four weeks I was
9:40
away and then came back and I was like, they're not a dog.
9:44
You can't just put them in like, you know, somewhere else for
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four weeks. Come to like a dog place and
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drop them off and say boom month like these are your children.
9:55
Like it's not that easy to find childcare for that long and I.
9:59
Know it was just you. Know like.
10:02
Yeah, it was just crazy. It just feels like the system is
10:05
not set up for people in, you know, in different situations.
10:10
You have to fit in the box and if you don't, you tough.
10:14
Yeah, yeah. And it's really heartbreaking
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because, you know, they're so, you know, the system is broken.
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We all know that we're trying, you know, people are trying to
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fix it. But, you know, in this regard,
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though, it's. It's true.
10:28
Lara. Oh, my goodness.
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Yeah. So yeah, I did look at lots of
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different options and now someone actually asked me about
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it the other day and it's, I mean, now I could still go for
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another embryo transfer. You can do it up to the age of
10:43
52, but I just like, I think you get to the stage where having a
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two children much, much later is, is harder.
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Not just it's harder on your body, it's harder financially,
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it's harder mentally. And I just think it's just, I'm
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just now focused on being the world's best aunt.
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So that's my that's my mission now.
11:07
Thank you so much for sharing all of that, Aaron, your, you
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know, heartbreaking journey and where you've gotten to and how
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you've really like taken your pain and put it into this
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purpose with, you know, helping to make environmentally friendly
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testing and things like that when we are using so many tests
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a day and, and all that. And I think that's a testament
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to, you know, everything that you've been through and, and how
11:30
you're taking this out of it. Yeah.
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I just think it kind of never really, it never really was like
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supposed to be a replacement, but it's kind of it now is like
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maybe I had to go through that to do this.
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And maybe that's just one of those things.
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And it's not the first business I've started, but it's
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definitely the one I'm most passionate about.
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And it's something that I think it's because it's got two parts
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to it. You've got the sustainability
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part. You've also got the fertility
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part, which is that whole helping people on their journey
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because I know how hard it is, how upsetting how just the whole
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thing can be. And you know that there's a lot
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of people that don't talk about it and don't, don't want to
12:22
understand and don't try and understand.
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And I think that that's, that's really important.
12:29
And the more we talk about these things, the more it becomes
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normalised and then the, the less people will feel alone and
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feel like they can't talk to other people about it.
12:37
Yeah. Absolutely.
12:40
And you know, that's exactly right.
12:41
And trying to break that silence around this because there's so
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many of us who have gone through, you know, different
12:48
challenges. You know, getting pregnant,
12:49
staying pregnant isn't easy for everyone.
12:51
And we, you know, it's really having that community of people
12:55
who really understand what you're going through and you
12:58
know when you are because it's so isolating.
13:01
I mean, I was like, every test, every month, I remember, you
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know, just being so drained, you know, every time we would get
13:10
our menstrual cycles or anything, it was just like a
13:12
constant reminder that we're not pregnant again, you know?
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And it's like loss after loss after loss.
13:16
And it's just like constantly, you know, traumatizing.
13:21
And it's hard. Yeah, I people do find it and I
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think often you're on your own doing it like you might have a
13:28
partner, but it's not the same If you're not the person that's
13:32
you're not the person getting your period.
13:34
It's not the same experience, obviously, it's still hard, but
13:38
it's not the same. And I think it's hard to people
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to understand if you haven't been through it.
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And, and I know that. I know I didn't understand it
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before I went through it. I know I didn't.
13:48
So yeah. Yeah, and I think that shame,
13:53
blame and guilt that we all feel when we're going through it,
13:56
like with our bodies, with everything, like not happening
13:59
the way it's supposed to. As, you know, they talk about
14:02
things. It's you know, it is it really
14:05
like like guts you to the point that you're like, oh, like what
14:08
am I doing wrong or what did I do wrong to deserve almost kind
14:11
of thing, you know, like you think about and spiral about
14:14
those things too. Yeah, And I think you're also
14:17
feeling like, what's wrong with me because other people make it
14:21
look so easy. Like, I asked my sister, you
14:25
know, she had her last child at 43.
14:27
And I said to her, how long did it take for you to conceive?
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And she said first time. And I was like, OK, And so you
14:35
kind of like, well, you know, in theory, we're genetically
14:39
related. In theory, our bodies work more
14:42
or less to say or, you know, we share a lot of DNA.
14:46
So in theory, therefore, that would make it easy for me.
14:48
But yeah, it's just all these, I think that makes it hard as well
14:53
because you're always comparing yourself to someone else and
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you're like, well, I'm whatever, I'm younger, I'm fitter, I'm
14:59
whatever, I eat better. And yet that person still
15:02
managed to get pregnant. And that just, I think that's
15:05
hard because it just, life feels unfair, even though it's just
15:08
the way it works and there's not always rhyme or reason, but it's
15:12
just, it still makes it hard because that's just the way you
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kind of think about it, isn't it?
15:18
It is. And I know I feel like
15:21
especially when trying, you know, to conceive and going, I
15:24
feel like everything I saw was, you know, pregnancy post after
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pregnancy post and not enough about, you know, the role and
15:33
realness of it and the journey too.
15:35
And that's hard. Yeah, I think so.
15:38
I think it's, you want people to know, I think you want to look
15:44
for people that are going through similar stuff to you and
15:46
you want to understand it without, without it being
15:48
glamorised and without it being, I guess people often I think get
15:54
worried about being perceived to be they, they've got this
15:58
persona they want to put out there and they don't want to
16:00
deviate from that. And they're not necessarily
16:02
being real. Or if they're being real,
16:04
they're being kind of that fake real, which everyone knows is
16:06
not really real and it's but you want people that are genuinely,
16:12
it's like a couple of years ago, my brother and his wife, they
16:18
got pregnant. And when I found out, I was
16:21
really upset and not upset. Obviously I'm happy for them,
16:26
but I was upset because it brought it all back to me and it
16:30
made me just think they've got something I haven't got, you
16:34
know, it's that whole. And I ended up just falling.
16:38
And I thought, this is a bit cynical, but I thought I should
16:42
film this because I should film show people that this is even
16:46
after you think you kind of have got over it, you've never really
16:50
got over it. It always kind of sticks with
16:53
you and things trigger it. And it's, it's hard.
16:57
It's not, it's not something that goes away overnight.
17:00
And it must be even worse if you've got to a later stage in
17:04
your pregnancy and you miscarry when it feels more real.
17:07
I can't imagine. That must be just, I can't
17:10
imagine. And so I think it's, it's just
17:14
people need to come up and talk about these experiences so that
17:17
people know that that's just, it's just that's how it is.
17:21
And you're not a weirdo or you're not being strange for
17:25
still being upset. And it's been a long time
17:27
because, yeah, we all process things differently.
17:32
Yeah, I know. And we, you know, we always talk
17:35
about, you know, someone's journey, right?
17:39
Like we're all walking the same staircase.
17:40
It's just different colored steps because we're all going
17:43
through, you know, different, different journeys through this
17:46
with any kind of reproductive, you know, loss and trauma.
17:51
And it's like, and like losing babies, you know, early versus
17:54
late, like it's all just so hard and gut wrenching.
17:57
It really is. And oh, my goodness.
18:00
And then for you to take, you know, everything that you went
18:03
through and then as you're still going through it, you know, and
18:07
really like feeling and healing and everything.
18:09
You started Hoopsie and that. Yeah, like, yes.
18:16
Wow. Oh, I sometimes think it takes
18:20
me a while to process. I'm a bit slow sometimes on the
18:23
processing because it just kind of, and also I'm very much a
18:29
doer. So I just get on with things and
18:31
then it's later on it just kind of comes back and smacks me
18:33
around the head. But yeah, it, I think it's in
18:40
some ways initially it felt like I was doing something good
18:44
because even though we didn't have, you didn't have a product
18:46
for the first six months, you know, just sharing my story and
18:49
stuff felt like I was actually supporting other people in the
18:53
space. And I wanted to do that because
18:56
I just knew it was hard. So yeah.
19:00
Wow, wow, Lara. And for you know, so when did
19:05
you start exactly, Hoopsie? Like when did I know?
19:08
Like, of course, getting in into manufacturing and coming up with
19:11
the prototype and all those things.
19:13
But it is so neat just to hear, you know, all the work that's
19:17
behind it and everything. So I started kind of in the
19:22
December of 2021 and that's when I went and looked for a
19:25
manufacturer and eventually I found someone in China who would
19:31
work with me to develop the test.
19:33
And we basically got a prototype in about February.
19:38
And then in July the the production run was done and we
19:42
got the stock ship to the UK. And that's when we launched
19:44
first in the UK because they already had regulatory approval
19:46
in the UK and Europe. So it makes it sound like it was
19:50
quite a quick in the easy process, which it was in some
19:54
ways. But because now we're going
19:57
through developing 100% plastic free product for the US market
20:00
to manufacture in the US and that's that's a lot more
20:04
complicated because we're having to do each step of the journey.
20:07
We need FDA approval. So looking back, that was quite
20:11
simple, but obviously not that simple.
20:16
It's it's always. Yeah, hindsight's always great.
20:20
Things look look a lot easier than they necessarily were.
20:24
Absolutely no, I know. And it it's a lot of hard.
20:27
It's funny that you say that because talking to founders and
20:31
owners and things like that, I know, like, it talks about like,
20:34
months of, you know, paperwork. And it doesn't sound that
20:36
grueling. But really when you're in the
20:37
midst of it, it's like 30-40 hours at least of just like,
20:40
back and forth and getting prepared.
20:42
And, you know, and I'm talking like it within a week, like,
20:45
your focus is solely on that. And it's devoted.
20:48
But it's a lot of sleepless nights, you know, figuring
20:51
things out and getting it ready for market.
20:53
Yeah. Definitely.
20:55
I mean, and now it's like, I feel like we're so much further
20:58
down the path. I know so much more than I did
21:01
when I first started. And, and it's kind of like you
21:04
kind of want to bring all of that into this product that
21:08
you're doing and A, it's just impossible and B, it's just like
21:13
now it comes prioritizing. It's like, how do we make it so
21:17
that we really can give the best result, but without, without
21:22
overwhelming people as well? And so it's, yeah, it's, it's,
21:28
it's challenging. Absolutely.
21:30
So. And you just came here from the
21:33
UK to the US hitting the US market, that's huge.
21:37
You came across the, you know, big ocean to get here.
21:42
Yeah, so I've been here 5 1/2 weeks.
21:44
So yeah, it's, I mean, I'm lucky.
21:49
So I've, I moved over here for a health accelerator, so for my
21:53
business. So they basically will help me
21:55
get contacts, get connections and things like that in the
21:57
States. But it's been, it's the
22:01
healthcare market here. Healthcare here is quite crazy.
22:04
The whole private health thing is just like blows my mind.
22:09
But, but I mean, we realistically, when you get down
22:14
to it, it's the same problem as in any other country.
22:17
Women want to be pregnant and they can't get pregnant or they
22:21
want to find out if they're pregnant and they want support
22:23
around that journey that they're going through.
22:25
So it's at the core, it's not, it's the same problem, but it's
22:29
just you just have to approach it from different angles.
22:32
And then you've got different regulatory approvals, you've got
22:34
different retailers to sell through, different customers and
22:38
all that kind of stuff. But ultimately it's all about
22:41
the end user, and it's about working out how we can make our
22:45
product and supporting products around it best for them.
22:50
Yeah, absolutely mechanism doing like all the market research
22:54
it's yeah it's a very competitive I bet.
22:56
But what's unique and different though, is that eco friendly,
23:01
you know, product. And I think a lot of us, you
23:04
know, especially going down different journeys and stuff,
23:07
see how much, you know, we use and dispose of, you know, what
23:12
injections and all the other things and all these tests that.
23:16
Yeah. And some people, you know, I
23:17
know at least for me, I kept some of my tests, you know, when
23:20
I was doing them just to make sure they were right.
23:22
And then, you know, I'd dispose of them later.
23:23
But like, you know, you do hold on to some of them.
23:26
So knowing that you're getting, you know, a product, that it is
23:30
biodegradable or like, you know, eco friendly is so much more
23:33
important, right, in my opinion. Definitely.
23:36
I think it's, it's one of those things if you just do one test,
23:39
you don't really necessarily think about it.
23:41
But when you're on that journey for a long time, like, I mean,
23:43
I've met some women that estimates they've used 600
23:46
tests. Oh, it's huge, yeah.
23:49
And if you think then, and you often see pictures on Instagram
23:53
and stuff for people with all their tests and it's just crazy
23:56
and it, it, it just makes no sense.
23:59
And so one thing we we're obviously truly trying to do is
24:02
change people's perceptions to testing in terms of you don't
24:06
need to be, it doesn't need to be plastic.
24:08
It works just as well when it's not plastic, which is with the
24:11
paper based ones. And then the other thing we're
24:14
trying to do is we're working on an app where you take a picture
24:17
of your result and it tells you the result in words so that it
24:20
gives you that reassurance that the result you're reading is the
24:23
result is right. Because people when they're
24:26
taking a test, not necessarily thinking in the most rational or
24:30
sensible frame of mind, you're just like panicked, confused,
24:33
worried, stressed. And you just want to, you're
24:35
just like, is this right? Is this not right?
24:36
I don't know. Or maybe I should just need
24:38
another one to check and, and, or you ask someone and yeah,
24:43
it's a, it's a, it's a difficult time.
24:45
So we kind of want to do the sustainability thing, but we
24:48
also want to make life easier for people that are going
24:51
through that whole journey. And that's so important because
24:55
you know those lines, I know especially when I was testing
24:58
different levels or, you know, whatever the things were, the
25:01
lines, you could not see the different, like sometimes you
25:04
could barely see the line. So it's good that you could scan
25:06
a picture and it could read and tell you exactly like, yes, this
25:09
is positive or no, it's not, you know, in a better way instead of
25:14
it's either like super dark, OK, like this is it?
25:16
But then you do end up still taking a couple tests, at least
25:19
I did. So having it this way and being
25:22
able to have an app that reads it just makes sense.
25:25
Well, and that's the thing and lots of people, we've realised
25:28
that about 80% of women don't read the instructions or if they
25:30
do, they don't really take them in.
25:32
And so when they get that really faint line, they're like, no,
25:36
maybe maybe that's just I'm a little bit pregnant.
25:38
Well, we kind of not a little bit.
25:40
You either are or you aren't. So, but they're they're kind of
25:43
like, well, maybe it's not really worked properly.
25:45
And so that's when you. Yeah, Larry.
25:47
Yeah. In those moments though, I swear
25:49
like you just like you don't think right, right.
25:52
Like you're saying, clearly you're just like so focused,
25:55
hyper focused on that test, right?
25:57
Yeah. And then you're like, you know,
25:59
what happens if it's just like a bit left of die leftover from
26:02
the other line or like there's all these crazy things going
26:04
through your head. And, and I'm not saying that
26:07
it's just, it's not everyone. This happens to majority of
26:11
women. And because it is such a you,
26:15
you want to get it right. And then you don't necessarily
26:18
want to go to the doctor and have a test because they that's
26:20
time, money, hassle you just that's why you'll be doing one
26:24
at home, but you want that reassurance.
26:26
And So what I found is that loads of people posting up their
26:28
pictures online and their tests and saying, is this positive or
26:31
negative and asking people. And then what was happening is
26:34
you were getting a lot of people commenting and saying, so if it
26:37
would be someone that wasn't pregnant but wanted to be, they
26:40
might comment on what was a positive result and say
26:42
definitely not pregnant. And you get some really nasty
26:45
comments going on because you've got that whole emotion thing
26:49
going on that people really, you know, it's not what they want to
26:53
be mean. It's just that they so want
26:55
something for themselves that doesn't seem fair that someone
26:58
else has got it. So they just are mean.
27:01
And it's hard on both sides. So by using image recognition,
27:07
we can take out that and take out that emotion and we just
27:11
give you the answer. And then you can, what you want
27:14
to do with that answer is up to you.
27:16
But you've got the answer and you don't have to worry that
27:18
have I turned it to the right shade of the light?
27:21
Or is it, you know, do I need to go and do it another 10 tests?
27:24
Or do I, you know, you don't have to worry about all that.
27:26
You just get the result. Yeah, absolutely.
27:30
And that, you know, takes out half that battle because it
27:33
really is like, I remember even questioning myself about a
27:37
couple tests, like, is this right?
27:38
You know, just all the, all the thing, even though it's
27:41
blatantly there. But it is good just to get that
27:44
second person or the second set of eyes or a second read on it,
27:47
you know? Yeah, exactly.
27:49
Because even if you've been trying for a long time, you even
27:52
when you do get that positive, you're like, no, that can't be
27:56
right. That must be just be a bit of a
27:57
freaky one. It's probably not worked
27:59
properly. I should just go and do.
28:00
I'll do another one just to be sure and.
28:02
Yeah, it's happy. I know, I know.
28:05
You go down those rabbit. Holes.
28:07
Yeah, totally. And we've actually found that
28:09
through the research that women on average use three tests every
28:12
time they check. So they want to be that doubly
28:15
triply sure. So it's if you are using more
28:18
than one test, you're listening to this.
28:20
You are not alone. There are so many people using
28:22
more than one test. Yes.
28:25
Oh. That is so great that you shared
28:27
that, Larry. Yeah, because I feel like I know
28:30
I don't. I want to say hundreds.
28:32
I went through, you know, during our time I easily.
28:36
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, it's it can be crazy.
28:41
And I think we also get people that this is horrible, but you
28:45
get a lot of people addicted to this whole peeing on a stick and
28:48
then they've had miscarriages or whatever before and they're so
28:52
worried about losing their baby that they potentially do a test
28:56
every single day up until week 12.
28:58
And realistically, OK, that may give them the mental Peace of
29:02
Mind, but it's not actually helping them because when you
29:06
get to that later stage, like after kind of, you know, six
29:10
weeks, your HCG levels are going to be high and they'll remain
29:13
high even if you've miscarried. So it's not actually giving you
29:16
what you need, but you feel safer because you're taking that
29:19
test every day. But and that's just, it's just
29:23
hard. It's just like there's nothing.
29:25
I understand why women do it and don't get me wrong but it and if
29:30
it makes them feel better but ultimately it might be giving
29:33
them false information as well just because of the way the
29:35
tests are designed and the levels that your HCG can get to
29:39
while you're pregnant. No, that's great, Lara, for you
29:42
to share that because, you know, I was guilty of that after being
29:46
on our long, you know, infertility and trying to
29:48
conceive journey. I was so used to testing that I
29:51
still was testing my levels and everything, you know, going into
29:54
the pregnancy and for weeks after because it did make me so
29:58
nervous. So that's good to know.
30:01
Yeah. Thank you for that.
30:04
Yeah. And I think it is, I think it's
30:06
a safety and you're right, I think it is like a cushion
30:08
almost, but it's to know it's not as effective, you know, with
30:12
doing it with the pregnancy test is so important.
30:14
So thank you for sharing that. Yeah.
30:17
I mean, because the thing with the pregnancy test, so it
30:18
measures your HCG levels at 25, but by the time you get to like
30:24
week 6, your HCG levels could be like 100,000.
30:28
So way higher than that 25 S. Even if you're miscarrying, say
30:33
at week 6 and your levels are 100,000, you know, even for days
30:37
afterwards, they're still going to be way above 25.
30:40
It doesn't like they, they don't go from 100,000 to 0 and one day
30:43
it drops off gradually. So that's, but I think that's
30:48
part of that is like a lot of women don't understand how these
30:52
things work and how your body works and how just the whole
30:57
chemicals and everything that are going on the chemistry side
31:00
of it in your body. And we never really get taught
31:02
that. And I think we, that's part of
31:04
the problem with fertility as well.
31:05
It's like we never really got taught that.
31:08
You always were told don't have sex because you're going to get
31:10
pregnant, but the chance of getting pregnant at your prime
31:15
time is 25%. So you know, it's not, you know,
31:20
it's, you know, it's higher than when I did IVF, but it's not
31:23
crazy high. It's not guaranteed every time.
31:26
So I think a lot of, I think a lot of, and it's starting to be
31:30
better, but a lot of information about Women's Health hasn't
31:33
really been in the public domain or it hasn't been reliable.
31:36
And I think that it needs explaining in a way that people
31:40
understand. And I think that's part of the
31:41
problem. Like I had, I mean, this sounds
31:44
awful, but I had this lady send me her picture of her test and
31:48
she told me that she'd had sex with three different guys over
31:51
the space of a few weeks. And could I tell from her test
31:54
which one was the father? And I was like, no, which just
31:59
says like, you just don't really understand how it all works.
32:03
And I'm not judging for you having sex with different people
32:08
at all. But it's just that whole you
32:10
don't you haven't really got the grasp of just everything.
32:15
And and I'm sure that's a lot of it.
32:17
It's not due to being stupid or anything, it's just due to a
32:21
lack of information. And I mean, it's the same as
32:24
people that ask, oh, I had sex last night, can I do a pregnancy
32:27
test this morning? Well, you can, but it's not
32:29
going to tell you if you're pregnant or not because it
32:31
doesn't happen that fast. And, and I think that's a lot of
32:35
what both of us are trying to do is to, is to educate people on
32:39
their own health and on their own fertility so that they can
32:42
make more informed decisions and, and not feel so worried as
32:45
well. Because I think we often think,
32:48
oh, you know, it's not happening for us and there must be
32:51
something wrong. But you know, like, like if you
32:54
do take pregnancy test after you have sex, yeah, it's not going
32:56
to be pregnant. It's really not.
32:59
So you do need to wait. And it's not nothing to do with
33:02
you. It's just the way that the body
33:05
works. And it would be the same with
33:06
anybody and anyone that tells you different is completely
33:09
lying to you. But you, you do have to wait
33:12
that time just because that's, it's just like, it's like
33:15
anything like, you know, plants growing, fruit ripening, all
33:19
that kind of stuff. You can't plant your
33:21
strawberries today and have strawberries tomorrow.
33:23
It just doesn't work that way. And it's the same with babies or
33:26
fertility. Yeah, absolutely.
33:30
And you know, it is understanding, right Lair that
33:33
it's interesting because when you go on this journey, you
33:35
learn so much about yourself, about your own health, like your
33:39
body, everything, how everything operates, all the levels, all
33:42
the hormones. You almost feel like your own
33:45
chemist too at home going through all of this.
33:49
Like, it's not funny, but it is because it's like, Oh my God, am
33:52
I really here having to like, do all these tests, see all these
33:55
things, you know? But it's true.
33:58
Yeah. And I think that's we just, and
34:01
I think often we think, oh, it's all, it's not explained in an
34:06
easy to understand way. It's too sciencey.
34:08
And we therefore you kind of like your brain just switches
34:10
off because you might not be that kind of person.
34:12
And so I think it's really important that we explain things
34:16
in a way that people can understand that not it's not
34:21
complicated and it's not about dumbing things down.
34:24
It's just about making information easy to remember.
34:27
And you know, and I think that's part of the challenge that we
34:31
have in fertility is that people don't haven't taken stuff on
34:36
board because it's explained, not explained in a way that they
34:39
get or in a format that they get.
34:41
So you know, whether it's video, whether it's words, whether it's
34:44
pictures, whatever, whatever works for you.
34:46
But I think it's all about making sure that the information
34:49
is communicated in different ways to actually reach people.
34:53
Yeah. And I think what's really
34:55
interesting is to, you know, through social media and things
34:58
like that, especially on Instagram, you know, who are
35:01
going through infertility and when they're talking about.
35:03
And, you know, this happens in our support groups and
35:05
everything too. But when you're talking and
35:06
looking at, you know, social media and you're seeing, OK,
35:09
these people are like, this is one of the bonuses, you know,
35:12
when going through things, if you can find community of people
35:16
on there to see what they're doing exactly.
35:19
Something that might be untraditional from protocols,
35:22
you know, or based on the fertility clinic that you're at,
35:25
but things that then you can ask about or you can go in feeling
35:29
confident or feeling like you have some armor on you when
35:32
you're going to your doctor. Like I saw this.
35:34
Would this be a possibility for me?
35:35
And if not, why not? But then like, because I feel
35:38
like we also are more involved with our health these days and
35:41
infertilities, particularly trying to get pregnant.
35:44
We are so invested in that in so many different ways.
35:47
So we always want, you know, is there something we could be
35:50
doing different or better? And so seeing like holistic way,
35:54
seeing other things to try, especially when we're already
35:58
feeling like an egg timer, literally, you know, with them
36:03
putting like there's so many hard things with getting
36:06
pregnant later in life and you know, things like that.
36:08
So, you know, having that at your disposal, you know, being
36:11
able to see what others have been through in those moments
36:13
are huge. Definitely, I think you learn so
36:16
much from that and even just like one of the things I learnt
36:21
is that, and I didn't realise this before I started on this
36:24
whole journey is that, you know, so you're, you should really
36:28
start three months before you start trying to conceive.
36:31
You should, you know, adjust your diet, diet, exercise
36:35
basically because you're, that egg is impacted for that whole 3
36:39
months, that egg that comes in three months later.
36:41
So, but when I did my IVF and I was having the egg harvesting,
36:44
no one told me, no one said, right, you've got a harvest in
36:49
August. And OK, so for the next three
36:51
months, we recommend you cut out alcohol, you increase your
36:53
exercise, you cut down on this or whatever.
36:56
No one told me that. And, and I'm going, and I'm
36:59
paying thousands of dollars to these people and they won't.
37:03
It's just crazy. And it's like they expect you to
37:05
be able to work it out for yourself.
37:07
But if you've never been through it, how would you know?
37:10
You're not an expert. You're that's why you're paying
37:13
someone to do it. And I think that's what's really
37:15
hard. So that's why, yeah, groups and
37:18
forums can be really helpful because it's just stuff that you
37:21
just don't, you just don't know about.
37:24
And that can make a difference, not just for you as the woman,
37:26
if you are in a heterosexual relationship, stuff that your
37:29
partner does can make a difference.
37:30
Even like the basics about one of the things that guys are
37:33
worse for is like laptop on your lap, you know, and overheating
37:38
your testes. And that kind of thing can
37:41
really affect fertility. And just the really things that
37:45
are very, very simple to change, that don't require money, don't
37:49
require time, you can just literally sit at the table.
37:52
So, you know, there's a lot of stuff we can do that's very
37:56
easy, but we're not told about it.
37:59
No. And the effects that that has
38:01
and I can only manage in the effects that it has with the
38:03
cell phone in our pockets. You know, when you think about
38:06
all of that as well, Laura. Yeah, yeah.
38:09
And there's just so many things like that.
38:10
I think that we can, we can learn if you so if you are
38:14
listening and you haven't started to think about or you're
38:17
not at that stage of wanting to have a baby right now.
38:20
But when you ask at that stage, you need to look at different
38:24
factors. It's not just about you as the
38:27
woman, it's you and your partner.
38:29
If it is a male, if you've got, you know, a male partner and,
38:33
and it's just making sure that you know, you're doing things
38:35
together to improve your chances.
38:37
Because we know that male infertility is increasing.
38:41
We know that couples as their infertility is increasing and
38:45
it's a lot of it's due to environmental factors.
38:47
So food that we eat, the exercise or lack of exercise.
38:52
And you know, even just down to, you know, people report things
38:58
with like tampons and not using, using like organic tampons
39:01
rather than non organic or switching to period undies or
39:05
like those things can make a difference.
39:08
And you never, we never really know, I think how much these
39:11
things do make a difference to you as an individual.
39:15
We only know averages. So it's very hard to say if you
39:19
do X, you'll get Y. But ultimately all of these
39:23
changes you can make in your lifestyle ultimately help you
39:26
longer term. So even if, even if your
39:29
facility journey is not successful longer term, it
39:32
improves your health, which means that you know, you're
39:34
around for longer, which is, you know, I personally, I think it's
39:38
a win. Yeah, absolutely, Lara.
39:42
Wow. Oh goodness, Lara, I can't tell
39:46
you how much it means to have you on here.
39:49
Your vulnerability, your honesty.
39:52
That's exactly what this podcast is about.
39:54
So you've shown us that even when life doesn't go as planned,
39:58
we still have the power to create something meaningful.
40:01
And so it just means so much to have you here.
40:04
Well, no, I, I think what you're doing is great.
40:06
And I think it's really important that people come out
40:08
and talk about these things. And we obviously have seen a lot
40:11
more of it in the last few years with like Jennifer Aniston and
40:14
stuff. But I think that in some ways
40:17
you look at a celebrity and you go, well, well, you know, she's
40:21
got all this money, of course she can do XY and Z or all this
40:24
time. And as a regular person who has
40:27
to work, who has other commitments, that's when having
40:30
a being in some kind of support group or talking to other
40:34
people, they're in a similar situation can really help
40:37
because you then you get those real, real life kind of
40:42
scenarios and things that you can actually do and make a
40:44
difference. So, so like, like one thing
40:47
that's really simple once I found out like this is, you
40:50
know, not heating up if you're taking lunch to work, don't heat
40:54
it in a Tupperware container. Don't heat it in plastic because
40:56
that plastic then goes into your food, which goes into you.
40:59
So that's like a really simple thing to change and doesn't cost
41:03
you anything. You normally there's plates or
41:06
whatever at work, you just put the food on a plate and then
41:08
heat it up as opposed to in the container.
41:10
And, and I think there's a lot of simple stuff we can do to
41:13
make our chances of conceiving higher to.
41:16
But it's, you don't have to spend millions on supplements or
41:21
that kind of thing. There's things that you can very
41:23
easily do. And I think people need to be
41:26
aware about that and understand that these things have an impact
41:30
and that will make a difference. And hopefully by other people
41:36
sharing their journeys, then you learn these things and yeah, it
41:41
makes a difference to your life. Absolutely, absolutely, Lara.
41:47
Oh, thank you. And I think you've been
41:48
mentioning about plastics, right?
41:50
So it's like finally starting to get traction and in the news and
41:55
things like that. But you know, we've changed a
41:57
lot of our stuff over to glass in our house, you know, with
42:00
storage containers, all those things.
42:02
And it was all through our journey, you know, five years
42:04
ago, just six years ago, learning about all this.
42:06
And, and it's true. I mean, all of that does take in
42:10
and you don't think about it because we think about
42:12
convenience a lot of times because that's, you know, this
42:16
way we live and all that. And I know I do.
42:19
And then starting to really take notice to those things is so
42:21
important, and I'm so glad you mentioned that for our
42:23
listeners. Yeah.
42:25
And I think it's one of those things that I think like people,
42:29
if you, if you are having challenges then in like you're
42:34
struggling with your fertility, then I think there's a lot of
42:36
things you can do which don't have to cost money.
42:38
And I think that that's what people need to realise.
42:40
You're always going to get these snake oil salesman that you
42:43
know, oh, buy this multivitamin where you're going to be
42:45
pregnant in three months or whatever.
42:46
But ultimately that that most of the time is just a sales ploy.
42:52
And but there's a lot of things you can actually do yourself.
42:55
And it's even, it's interesting because like one thing I see a
42:58
lot, especially in the IVF community is about BMI and you
43:01
know, oh, they won't do let me do IVF until I get to a certain
43:04
BMI and stuff. And it's interesting because in
43:07
when you're trying to conceive naturally, it's for every, I
43:11
think it's for every one point in BMI you go up the chance your
43:15
infertility, your chances of conceiving drop by something
43:18
like 5%. It's, it's a huge drop.
43:20
So you really want, that is why when you're trying to conceive
43:23
naturally that you want to have a lower BMI.
43:26
So when people complain, I see them complain about IVF clinics
43:30
about, you know, they won't take me because it's BMI.
43:32
It's like the reason they won't take you is not because they're
43:36
being horrible, it's because they know you have a better
43:38
chance of conceiving if you have a lower BMI.
43:41
And so I think a lot of it, and that's not really communicated
43:45
by their clinics. They'll just be like, no, if
43:48
your BMI is above whatever, we can't deal with you.
43:52
And, and then if you are that person with that BMI above
43:55
whatever, you then just think, Oh, I'm just fat and they don't
43:57
want to deal with fat people. But it's, but you don't, you
44:01
never understand. No one ever explains to you.
44:03
And it wasn't until I, no, I, no one said that to me.
44:06
But it wasn't until I started looking into more of this space
44:09
and I was like, why? Why is BMI so important?
44:12
And it comes back into that whole, you know, behaviours,
44:16
environmental factors that you can control.
44:18
I'm not saying it's easy to lose weight because it's hard, but
44:22
you know, you, you, it can be controlled.
44:25
You can do something about it. So yeah, it's just, I think all
44:30
of those things that we don't necessarily link to fertility,
44:33
but they everything is linked to fertility.
44:37
Yes, well, and especially when you're living it like you're
44:39
thinking about all the things already and it's like if you can
44:42
make some lifestyle changes that aren't going to cost you
44:45
anything, you know, besides of course having to give up, you
44:48
know, different things that you might enjoy.
44:52
But Even so, I mean, you know, for the goal and things like
44:56
that, like if you can do some things on your own to try to
44:59
increase your chances, you know, outside of this too, I know I
45:02
really looked at everything because you do, you're like,
45:07
what can I do to improve this or like help to, you know,
45:10
especially in those moments. Yeah, I think, I think that's, I
45:15
think often in this world, unfortunately everyone's looking
45:19
for a quick fix. Like they want those slimming
45:22
injections or they want those quick fixes.
45:24
And I think unfortunately when it comes to fertility, there is
45:27
no quick fix. There really isn't.
45:29
Yes, you could lose weight quickly with injections, but
45:33
that doesn't mean it's going to solve your fertility problem or
45:35
there could be other things. And, and I think anything you
45:38
can do to support yourself and really helps or help longer term
45:43
as well. It's not just about today and
45:45
it's not just about conceiving, but it's also about the rest of
45:48
your life. And if you can improve, you
45:50
know, reduce your processed food, reduce your sugar and all
45:53
that kind of stuff, It it, it helps in other areas.
45:56
It's not just about trying to conceive.
45:59
It's, you know, there's other benefits to it.
46:01
Absolutely. Absolutely there.
46:04
Oh, my goodness. Thank you so much, Lauren.
46:08
Thanks. Good to chat.
46:10
Yes, it was so great to chat with you and have you on here
46:13
and introduce you to our listeners and your story and
46:17
hoopsie everything. So thank you so much.
46:21
No, thank you for having me. And yeah, if anyone does want to
46:24
reach out, then just you can head to our website, hoopsie.com
46:28
and the contact form, that's me. If you send a WhatsApp message,
46:33
that's also me. So yeah, you know, and I do get
46:37
back to people and we do, I do get people WhatsApp me quite
46:39
regularly just asking questions, wanting to chat.
46:43
And you know, I think it's important to be there and
46:47
support people. So honestly, do reach out.
46:49
And I say this every podcast I do and no one has ever reached
46:53
out. I also say that every podcast I
46:55
do and no one's ever reached out.
46:56
So let's see if the law reaches out this time.
47:01
Oh my goodness. Well, I'll make sure to put the
47:02
website in the bio so everybody can see that in our description
47:05
and also how to get yeah, in touch with you, Laura, that on
47:08
there and all that, Lara. So thank you so much for for
47:12
that and for anybody who needs to reach out or wants to reach
47:15
out. Thank you and thanks for having
47:20
me. And yeah, just keep up.
47:22
Like I love what you guys are doing chasing rainbows and, and
47:27
I just think it's really important to have that support
47:29
network around you. So yeah, we'll be doing more
47:32
work together, I think, won't we?
47:34
Once once we launch into the US market next year, we'll be doing
47:37
some more things. Together oh I can't wait and I
47:40
can't wait to watch all of this grow and us together so thank
47:43
you so much lair. It means the world and you know,
47:46
to our listeners out there, if this episode moved you, please
47:49
share it. You know, let us start the
47:51
conversation, keep the conversation going around this.
47:54
Let it remind someone that they're paying their persistence
47:57
and their path matter and we're here for all of it.
47:59
If anybody needs any of our support services, daily support
48:03
groups, therapy, mentor, this podcast is an extension of that
48:07
mindful movement. Any kind of thing resources that
48:10
we have at Chase and Rainbows, reach out to us.
48:12
We want to get you connected to our free services.
48:15
This is cried out loud and I'm Bernice and today we cried for
48:18
purpose, for progress, and for peace.
48:20
Thank you so much.