Latest / The Other 22 Hours / Buddy Miller on going broke, staying grounded after the applause, and a $50 plastic guitar in the Hall of Fame.

Transcript

Buddy Miller on going broke, staying grounded after the applause, and a $50 plastic guitar in the Hall of Fame. · The Other 22 Hours

0:00
[SPEAKER_01]: And I thought, well, I'm living in the city seems dangerous with the handful of equipment.
0:05
[SPEAKER_01]: Let's move to Union City.
0:07
[SPEAKER_01]: I found a little secret parking spot where I could back the van into this church.
0:11
[SPEAKER_01]: I got broken into two nights in a row.
0:13
[SPEAKER_01]: And my guitar, it got stolen.
0:15
[SPEAKER_01]: I drove through a picture of it, put it on telephone poles, and said reward, and I got it back.
0:20
[SPEAKER_01]: What a week or so.
0:22
[SPEAKER_01]: It's now in the country music hall of fame.
0:28
[SPEAKER_02]: We often define artists by their output, their records, books, movies, and the times they're on stage.
0:34
[SPEAKER_00]: But the art is made in the quiet, the struggle, and the mundane, the hours that no one sees.
0:40
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm McKayla Ann.
0:42
[SPEAKER_02]: And I'm Erin Kray for Hayes.
0:43
[SPEAKER_02]: This is the other 22 hours.
0:45
[SPEAKER_02]: An exploration of the creative life lived in between.
1:02
[SPEAKER_02]: This week, we are honored to feature our conversation with someone, I think we can all call a legend in the songwriter, Americana World, and that is producer, guitarist, songwriter, buddy Miller, who, if you don't know him by name, you know him by his work, he has worked with, and I'm sorry I have to look down to read this, because the list is so extensive.
1:24
[SPEAKER_02]: He's worked with Emilu Harris, Sean Colvin, Lee Ann Wolmac, Ashley Monroe, Warren Treaty Jim Latterdale, Elizabeth Cook, Dan Pen, John Fogardy, Regina McRarrett, previous guest Larry Campbell and Theresa Williams.
1:34
[SPEAKER_02]: He's worked with Gillian Welch and David Rolling's Patty Griffin, Johnny Cash, Elvis Costello, Allison Krauss, the Wood Brothers, previous guests, Carolina Chocolate Drops, Richard Thompson, Allison Moore, his incredible wife singer, son and writer, Julie Miller.
1:47
[SPEAKER_02]: And I missed so many people.
1:49
[SPEAKER_02]: If you have liked any kind of song in the Roots music category, buddy has either performed with them recorded with them, produced them, had them on his show, the buddy in Jim show on satellite radio with the incredible Jim Latterdale.
2:04
[SPEAKER_02]: Buddy is a living pillar of what is the current American Roots music scene.
2:10
[SPEAKER_00]: We're just so excited, both longtime fans and admirers of an influence by Buddy's work.
2:16
[SPEAKER_00]: So it's so exciting to finally get to talk to him.
2:19
[SPEAKER_00]: And this conversation was really focused on collaboration, partnership, community, chasing the music, and also keeping your identity whole.
2:29
[SPEAKER_00]: Buddy is just a delight.
2:31
[SPEAKER_00]: So I hope you enjoy our conversation with Buddy Miller.
2:37
[SPEAKER_00]: We like to start every hour the same way with just how are you doing and that's a how are you really and where are you physically and creatively how am I doing I think I'm always doing okay and I kind of ride the wave so I'd say
2:54
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm doing good, and I think I am, the coffee helps.
2:58
[SPEAKER_01]: And physically, I can be wherever you want me.
3:01
[SPEAKER_01]: 10 feet away is a room that I work with my gear.
3:04
[SPEAKER_01]: If you want me in there, I can walk in there, or I'm in what used to be the studio, the bigger studio room that I would record and where now there's a kitchen countertop where there used to be a nine foot trident, be-range console, and every inch was covered with gear.
3:19
[SPEAKER_01]: During COVID, I thought, enough of this.
3:24
[SPEAKER_01]: have a kitchen.
3:25
[SPEAKER_02]: Wow.
3:25
[SPEAKER_01]: Got rid of all the big stuff and put in a kitchen.
3:28
[SPEAKER_02]: Wow.
3:28
[SPEAKER_01]: And then realized, well, grud, we didn't have a kitchen.
3:31
[SPEAKER_01]: And now neither one of us after 42 years has any idea how to cook.
3:35
[SPEAKER_01]: So.
3:37
[SPEAKER_01]: But it's a nice hang in the morning.
3:39
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
3:40
[SPEAKER_02]: So what did you guys do for a kitchen in those 40 years that was a, or rather, what did you do for food?
3:45
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
3:46
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, there's a lot of takeaway.
3:47
[SPEAKER_01]: When we moved to Nashville in 92, 93, Julie, my wife had a couple of prerequisites, trees, and walking distance to food.
3:58
[SPEAKER_01]: So there's a lot of take away around and we kind of got used to that.
4:01
[SPEAKER_01]: We can do certain things, but this house and the house we were living in were both in this neighborhood.
4:06
[SPEAKER_01]: They were duplexes.
4:07
[SPEAKER_01]: Plunt bought them.
4:08
[SPEAKER_01]: So the whole downstairs and this whole house were in.
4:11
[SPEAKER_01]: We used as a recording space all the different rooms and upstairs.
4:15
[SPEAKER_01]: We would live.
4:16
[SPEAKER_01]: And there was a little kitchen at up there.
4:18
[SPEAKER_01]: But we got here.
4:20
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, unfortunately, it had an old rental kind of stove and that just looked like a piece of art.
4:26
[SPEAKER_01]: It was supposed to be a stove.
4:27
[SPEAKER_01]: It looked like a large egg on a pedestal and the front of it would open up and it would look really cool, but really all it was good for would keep books in it.
4:35
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, the two of the burners on top would work.
4:38
[SPEAKER_01]: So that's really that in a microwave kind of kept us going for decades.
4:43
[SPEAKER_02]: Wow.
4:44
[SPEAKER_02]: That really sparse my interest on.
4:46
[SPEAKER_02]: Did you find it hard to shift, living right above your studio and having your studio intertwined in your house?
4:52
[SPEAKER_02]: Did you have a hard time switching gears from home life to studio life or was there just no different?
4:57
[SPEAKER_01]: Home life has always been studio life and vice versa.
5:00
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, when Julie and I met and she had just turned 20 in Austin, I auditioned as a guitar player for the band.
5:07
[SPEAKER_01]: She was the singer and that's how we started playing together.
5:10
[SPEAKER_01]: And then eventually we'd start hanging out.
5:12
[SPEAKER_01]: We did our own band.
5:13
[SPEAKER_01]: We started moving around and all we've ever done is music together.
5:17
[SPEAKER_01]: And then she started making records and I would loosely call me producer.
5:22
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know, she knows what she wants.
5:23
[SPEAKER_01]: I just kind of am the enabler.
5:27
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, very small when we were running on the West Coast and we would always have recording here in there and it always made sense.
5:34
[SPEAKER_01]: It was what we did.
5:35
[SPEAKER_01]: It was what we did together.
5:36
[SPEAKER_01]: It was our life.
5:37
[SPEAKER_01]: So that was okay.
5:39
[SPEAKER_01]: Got a little more complicated later on.
5:41
[SPEAKER_00]: Is that kind of still the life that you live or you guys still like writing and recording together?
5:47
[SPEAKER_00]: Or has that shifted with age?
5:49
[SPEAKER_01]: age has a little bit to do with it, but I think maybe what has more to do with two things, Julie's health really declined.
5:59
[SPEAKER_01]: It really got hard for her to go out and do dates, and I went so far as we would rent RVs for a year or two, and then
6:07
[SPEAKER_01]: The guy at the RV rental place said, you know, you could have paid for this thing by now.
6:11
[SPEAKER_01]: So then we bought an RV, which was like a traveling bedroom for her and the guys would sit up front.
6:17
[SPEAKER_01]: But it was just too hard on her.
6:19
[SPEAKER_01]: And the other factor was, I don't want to call myself a bully, but I was certainly insensitive to her.
6:25
[SPEAKER_01]: Because she's great and so creative and has so much in her yet on stage, I would feel like
6:31
[SPEAKER_01]: This is my domain with the band.
6:34
[SPEAKER_01]: I know how to do this.
6:36
[SPEAKER_01]: And I would kind of like mild word would be insensitive.
6:38
[SPEAKER_01]: And you know, because she's sensitive.
6:40
[SPEAKER_01]: So I failed in that way.
6:42
[SPEAKER_01]: And then we split.
6:43
[SPEAKER_01]: And she didn't want to go on the road anymore.
6:45
[SPEAKER_01]: She was doing it even though it was really hard on her physically.
6:48
[SPEAKER_01]: So then I started taking every gig that came along, which I got to say every gig that came along was incredible.
6:57
[SPEAKER_01]: And hard to say no to.
6:58
[SPEAKER_02]: We have been making music together, essentially our entire relationship as well.
7:02
[SPEAKER_02]: We've been together for 20 years.
7:04
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, coming up on 20 years now.
7:06
[SPEAKER_01]: Congratulations.
7:07
[SPEAKER_01]: Thank you.
7:07
[SPEAKER_01]: Thank you.
7:08
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes, we met when we were 21, 22.
7:12
[SPEAKER_02]: And same kind of thing.
7:13
[SPEAKER_02]: I produced Michaela's records, even though she did very much knows what she likes and what she wants.
7:19
[SPEAKER_02]: And I find it personally.
7:21
[SPEAKER_02]: It takes some real presence and awareness on my end
7:26
[SPEAKER_02]: Remember that it's her music and her band and her vision and I'm still in service to that as I am in service to other artists that I make music with that I don't have the same relationship with.
7:36
[SPEAKER_02]: It can be really hard to separate myself from her art sometimes.
7:41
[SPEAKER_01]: Exactly, and I feel like, well, we're married.
7:44
[SPEAKER_01]: Our musical tastes are almost one in the same, which is... Good night.
7:48
[SPEAKER_02]: And we're there from the truth, yeah.
7:51
[SPEAKER_01]: And she has her ideas of what she wants.
7:53
[SPEAKER_01]: And honestly, I'll come up with signature licks on the guitar that are so primitive and cool that it takes me forever to grasp it.
8:03
[SPEAKER_01]: And we get in a little tug of war over that.
8:07
[SPEAKER_01]: I've got so many,
8:09
[SPEAKER_01]: hundreds of hours of work tapes that are just humiliating to me to listen to about what a jerk I was during work into stuff up when her vision was like she had it and I'm just trying to play but working with your partner can be challenging and incredible.
8:26
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
8:27
[SPEAKER_01]: Absolutely.
8:28
[SPEAKER_00]: That's what I was going to say.
8:29
[SPEAKER_00]: It's so complex because like you said, we're married.
8:33
[SPEAKER_00]: So our musical tastes are the same.
8:35
[SPEAKER_00]: You forget that when you are life partners with somebody, and then also creative partners in a lot of ways, oh wait, actually, we're two separate people.
8:44
[SPEAKER_00]: And we have entire upbringings of 20 years before we met the most informative time where we develop our taste as in childhood science actually shows that where we're imprinted with music and I sometimes have to remember that with us, oh, we grew up listening to very different music and that can compliment each other and we can love a lot of the same stuff now.
9:08
[SPEAKER_00]: But he doesn't know the references I have deep in the back of my mind that I listened to a million times when I was 12 years old and vice versa.
9:17
[SPEAKER_02]: Even like the same song that we can mutually love.
9:20
[SPEAKER_00]: And we listen to it so differently.
9:22
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, resonates for you in a completely different way than it resonates for me.
9:25
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, I'm not listening to the bass part.
9:30
[SPEAKER_00]: We took us a long time to figure that out that I'm like, Oh, when I listen to that song, I'm hearing the singer and the lyrics and like the band is a bed.
9:38
[SPEAKER_00]: But I'm not listening to the individual parts and he's like, What, you don't hear that drum fill and the beat.
9:43
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm like, No, You can see here how they led into the bridge.
9:47
[SPEAKER_01]: We're in the same boat, and we still listen to music that way.
9:51
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, but it's such a testament that you guys have survived.
9:54
[SPEAKER_00]: We've learned creative romantic life partnerships are not going to be great all the time, but that kind of survival and commitment makes the times that they are great.
10:07
[SPEAKER_00]: Having survived the hard challenges, I feel even better, more fruitful, more creative, more fulfilling.
10:16
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, we survived, we came out different, but yes, we still communicate about and work together.
10:22
[SPEAKER_01]: We made a couple of records.
10:23
[SPEAKER_01]: Matter of fact, the studio room, I loved it so much.
10:26
[SPEAKER_01]: I love the console, along to an old friend of mine.
10:29
[SPEAKER_01]: Every inch was cluttered and covered with instruments and gear in this room, most fun to be in.
10:35
[SPEAKER_01]: Everybody that came over made a record loved it, but Julie couldn't come down here.
10:39
[SPEAKER_01]: That's where I did my work and that's where I was with everybody else.
10:43
[SPEAKER_01]: And we weren't working together.
10:45
[SPEAKER_01]: So when she started, it took years and took a little while to come around to us, being able to work together again.
10:53
[SPEAKER_01]: And when she was able to, and she picked up a guitar and wrote a song and it was good, up in our bedroom, I said, okay, give me a few hours.
11:02
[SPEAKER_01]: I gathered a lot of gear and walked it up our flights of stairs, found a corner in the bedroom,
11:15
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's where she did a lot of her vocals is sitting in the bed because she doesn't feel good a lot.
11:19
[SPEAKER_01]: And she just, you know, did her vocals there.
11:21
[SPEAKER_01]: I played all the instruments there.
11:23
[SPEAKER_01]: We look over in the corner at night and there's red lights on.
11:27
[SPEAKER_01]: And not recording.
11:29
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think that was healing.
11:32
[SPEAKER_01]: If we can, for a member at Hold Haunted that, I don't know if we that was years ago.
11:36
[SPEAKER_00]: That was the Julian Buddy Miller record.
11:39
[SPEAKER_01]: No, that was our first do-ed record.
11:41
[SPEAKER_01]: And that was, I guess, 20.
11:44
[SPEAKER_01]: We're recording this on September 11th, 25th anniversary.
11:49
[SPEAKER_01]: That's the day our do-it record came out.
11:52
[SPEAKER_00]: Wow.
11:52
[SPEAKER_01]: I think, you know, that's 25 years ago, how to strange things can happen up here.
11:57
[SPEAKER_01]: But as I remember it, our record and Dylan's time out of mind, I think, came out around the section, or won't Dylan record.
12:03
[SPEAKER_01]: We're at least the same time, and obviously we didn't do anything that day except for a big loot to the TV and talk with friends, but yeah, that was that record.
12:11
[SPEAKER_01]: The record we made that I'm talking about is called Breakdown on 20th Avenue South, which was maybe 10 years ago, 12 years ago, after I pulled back from touring.
12:21
[SPEAKER_00]: Wow, I mean, this is the foundation of this podcast is just that we were getting older.
12:26
[SPEAKER_00]: We were in our mid 30s, the pandemic happened.
12:29
[SPEAKER_00]: We started having children and all of our friends are getting older and everybody was navigating, not just the single-minded pursuit of our music careers, or we were people still were.
12:41
[SPEAKER_00]: And then we were talking about even when it was going well on the outside how hard it was.
12:46
[SPEAKER_00]: And then everyone starts navigating health issues.
12:51
[SPEAKER_00]: health issues, law, like, yes.
12:54
[SPEAKER_00]: So much.
12:54
[SPEAKER_00]: There's like, oh, wow.
12:55
[SPEAKER_00]: This is really different trying to do this than when I was 25 and all the people in my life were a healthy and able body and just here to support me.
13:04
[SPEAKER_00]: And like,
13:06
[SPEAKER_00]: It changes.
13:07
[SPEAKER_00]: It changes so much.
13:09
[SPEAKER_00]: So there's so much to grapple with.
13:11
[SPEAKER_00]: So anytime we get to talk to people who are still making music decades in, there's just so many layers of the complexities of life that like feed the music, which always is so contrary to what the music industry at large really seems to value new and
13:31
[SPEAKER_00]: young and it's the opposite of the depth of the work that I want to hear, which just brings me to you just made, which came out today, right?
13:40
[SPEAKER_00]: You're first record in 15 years.
13:43
[SPEAKER_01]: They're saying 15 years on the sticker and when I saw that, I thought, man, it's been a little while and then I've thought about it and really it's been over 20 years.
13:52
[SPEAKER_01]: The record they were referencing 15 years ago was called Buddy Miller's Majestic Silver Strings, which they put my name on at the record label who I love, their wonderful people, dear friends, and I can't believe they'll let me make records.
14:04
[SPEAKER_01]: But every project I do, it's like an opportunity to collaborate or have friends over
14:09
[SPEAKER_01]: All right, that's what it's about for me.
14:11
[SPEAKER_01]: So that record, I think I'm only saying four songs on it, maybe, or three.
14:16
[SPEAKER_01]: It was my dear friends, Mark repo, Bill Brazil, Greg Lease, Jay Bellaros, and Dennis Crowder.
14:23
[SPEAKER_01]: I think that was the band.
14:24
[SPEAKER_01]: And, you know, everybody, I love Patty Griffin, Emilew, Leon Womack.
14:29
[SPEAKER_01]: I can't remember, Chuck the genius.
14:30
[SPEAKER_01]: A lot of people would come over and sing their songs and that was that record.
14:34
[SPEAKER_01]: It wouldn't have had my, I didn't want my name on that.
14:37
[SPEAKER_01]: Because it was like a band, it was just a fun collaborative thing.
14:40
[SPEAKER_01]: But I think the record label thought, well, here on our label, they're not, at least put your name on.
14:44
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know what.
14:45
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, they're great.
14:46
[SPEAKER_01]: I love everything.
14:47
[SPEAKER_01]: They do.
14:47
[SPEAKER_01]: I feel so grateful to be able to still go in a room and press the button to record.
14:53
[SPEAKER_01]: And somebody might put it out.
14:55
[SPEAKER_00]: So 20 years since you've written a collection of songs and thought I want to make one of my own records.
15:02
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, and I didn't really write a collection of songs.
15:05
[SPEAKER_01]: This started out to be a record of cover songs.
15:08
[SPEAKER_01]: Just a friend called up and said, hey, you should do that.
15:10
[SPEAKER_01]: And this one song, this iconic song that I would never go near because it's been done right.
15:17
[SPEAKER_01]: But it got me thinking about all the songs that I've loved and all the song writers I've loved.
15:22
[SPEAKER_01]: that place where in music or I love places of collision and kind of a place I sit is R&B and country music, which is the same anyway really.
15:32
[SPEAKER_01]: And I thought, well, maybe I should do a record of cover song.
15:34
[SPEAKER_01]: So then as you guys know, you start with maybe an idea and good intentions that it takes on a life of its own and turns into something else and this did.
15:43
[SPEAKER_01]: And there's, I think,
15:44
[SPEAKER_01]: five Julie songs on it that I work with her on, but there are a lot of covers and I could have kept going and a lot of friends.
15:51
[SPEAKER_01]: It's another I got friends in that over for this one too.
15:55
[SPEAKER_00]: what kind of after so long so it was just the prodding of the friend or what kind of what kind of spurs that it's crazy to me how like decades can go by and then and I now understand how time can go by so fast and then you're like oh I haven't put out a record and so what kind of urges that beyond just a friend suggestion or is that solely what it was?
16:18
[SPEAKER_01]: and I am 74.
16:20
[SPEAKER_01]: Time goes by a lot faster.
16:22
[SPEAKER_01]: I just thought I'd walked away from it when I walked away from it.
16:25
[SPEAKER_01]: Not forever, no rules.
16:26
[SPEAKER_01]: I have no rules about anything.
16:28
[SPEAKER_01]: But I had created so many literal and figurative messes with my entire life on the road before every record I produce.
16:36
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, this is a huge room and there always be a little time between records.
16:40
[SPEAKER_01]: I just have stacks of papers, important papers, and everything from
16:45
[SPEAKER_01]: whatever, how to operate pieces of gear to bills, to notes, on songs, just tons of stuff, and then, oh no, we're starting a record day after tomorrow.
16:53
[SPEAKER_01]: So every record, I would get a cardboard box, dump all the junk inside a box, take it in my basement, never go down to the basement again.
17:03
[SPEAKER_01]: Record after record after record after record, and so I've created a lot of messes and stuff that had been lost that I thought maybe it's time to see what's in the basement.
17:14
[SPEAKER_01]: in more ways than one, and I've been doing that, and that could take up three entire rest of my life.
17:20
[SPEAKER_01]: And I left guitar just away a little bit.
17:22
[SPEAKER_01]: I never saw to myself as much of a guitar player, but I guess I was okay.
17:26
[SPEAKER_01]: I think when you do something every day, and you're playing every night or five nights a week, you get good.
17:32
[SPEAKER_01]: So after a while though, I would drift over to the guitar, and I'd pick up just a simple chord or progression, would bring me happiness.
17:40
[SPEAKER_01]: So it wasn't hard to get back to it.
17:42
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and so did this start as an exercise in joy and just making songs to make songs?
17:49
[SPEAKER_02]: Or did you start with the intent of making an album that you would release?
17:53
[SPEAKER_01]: It was my friend Sean Calvin.
17:54
[SPEAKER_01]: He texted it or called and said you should do.
17:57
[SPEAKER_01]: I've been loving you too long.
17:58
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, it's wedding song and I just love you.
18:00
[SPEAKER_01]: Not a chance am I going near that song that song's been sung, but then that's what triggered my head.
18:06
[SPEAKER_01]: But I had a list of songs that I loved so much, a whole song, and it was in here.
18:11
[SPEAKER_01]: It used to be on paper, but so I'll sit down in this room with what was the studio woman's dining room table, get out of recorder, and sing a bunch of them, and see what they sound like.
18:22
[SPEAKER_01]: And then I thought, you know, it could be a duet's record of cover songs, and I asked
18:26
[SPEAKER_01]: The label if they'd be at all interested, and they said, yeah, sure.
18:30
[SPEAKER_01]: And then, of course, it changed and turned into something else entirely different, and there's one do-it on it, maybe.
18:36
[SPEAKER_01]: But they were fine with it, and I loved it.
18:37
[SPEAKER_01]: So I would record myself singing.
18:39
[SPEAKER_01]: I wanted to make sure it had a little tiny bit of authenticity to it, so I wanted to listen to it and see if it felt real.
18:46
[SPEAKER_01]: Just on a little recorder.
18:47
[SPEAKER_01]: My friend Paul Kennedy gave me a boombox thing that records and sounds great and has a built-in compressor.
18:56
[SPEAKER_02]: I love that.
18:57
[SPEAKER_02]: There's been a few points in this conversation where you've brought up the Silver Shings record and it was getting together with friends and collaboration and making records in the room that you're in, was getting people over and all of this and that's some that I've always admired with your work, whether it's on record or on stage and some kind of MD role that you take on in the numerous places that you do that, but it's like you're casting.
19:19
[SPEAKER_02]: Who you pick?
19:20
[SPEAKER_02]: For instance, with this record, do you have a vision for how you're going to approach the song and you cast the people to reach that vision or do you have the cast in mind knowing that it could fall in this range of things and let chance happen?
19:35
[SPEAKER_01]: I like working with a core band and keeping it the same on the right.
19:39
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, you know, I can afford to work with a core.
19:41
[SPEAKER_01]: I can't change it up that much and I don't work long hours anymore.
19:45
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, I'll do, I don't know, one or two sessions worth at my place.
19:49
[SPEAKER_01]: So I'm used to core band and it's just guys that I'm not a great communicator.
19:54
[SPEAKER_01]: So they'll understand my code and my references and we can get there quickly.
19:59
[SPEAKER_01]: I never listened to grooves or this or that and reference anything else.
20:03
[SPEAKER_01]: Matter of fact, to my detriment or whatever that word would be, I don't even learn the songs, the cover songs.
20:09
[SPEAKER_01]: I try to get them from memory how I remember them and that's how I work them up.
20:13
[SPEAKER_01]: And I have had to go back and correct some pretty bad lyrical mistakes.
20:20
[SPEAKER_01]: But I just don't want that imprint of the original filtering being the thing that we use.
20:26
[SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, I mean it may be close anyway, but yeah, so I get guys that I just love their playing.
20:30
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I get lost in Victor's base, but there's so many great base players I've worked with, but just syringe, it's Victor Krauss on the last record.
20:37
[SPEAKER_01]: Played on, I could just get lost in his heart and his tone and how he gets from one note to the other.
20:44
[SPEAKER_01]: I love that.
20:46
[SPEAKER_01]: I love that about everybody I work with, so I love getting lost completely lost in it.
20:50
[SPEAKER_01]: I love getting lost in the music on stage.
20:52
[SPEAKER_01]: That's what I love about playing Lyme and I grew up in the sixties where that's what you did.
20:57
[SPEAKER_01]: It was song speed up and slow down, who cares?
21:00
[SPEAKER_01]: You're just going on a journey that probably didn't happen with us on this record, but I'm open to that.
21:06
[SPEAKER_02]: Hey, just a quick pause from this conversation.
21:08
[SPEAKER_02]: The other 22 hours is an independent production built entirely on the idea that he's quiet on his conversations matter.
21:14
[SPEAKER_02]: The best way to support our work is simply to share it.
21:17
[SPEAKER_02]: So if you can think of one person who would appreciate this show, please pass it along.
21:20
[SPEAKER_02]: And if you haven't yet, please follow our show in your listening platform of choice or subscribe to our channel on YouTube.
21:26
[SPEAKER_02]: It's a small action that may save massive difference for us.
21:29
[SPEAKER_02]: Thanks for being here.
21:30
[SPEAKER_02]: Let's get back to our conversation.
21:34
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm always interested in how identity plays a role in our lives as musicians, especially because music becomes a job for us, but it's also a soul connection and essential for many of us.
21:50
[SPEAKER_00]: It feels like how could we ever not play music, but it can get so twisted when then we bring in money and success and try and get gigs and building.
22:01
[SPEAKER_00]: And I'm curious what it feels like for you because you said you put some of it down for a little bit, whether it was production or touring mostly, and that you even got a little far away from guitar, which on the outside of a stranger's perspective,
22:18
[SPEAKER_00]: My interpretation of Buddy Miller's identity is that you are a guitar player, like a great guitar player and producer and musician.
22:27
[SPEAKER_00]: And so I'm really interested to hear if you thought about that at all, what your relationship is to you Buddy Miller as a guitar player or musician or just as a person and that's just something you've done in your life.
22:42
[SPEAKER_01]: I'd say Julie keeps me grounded and down.
22:45
[SPEAKER_01]: I'd come back from tours, blown up a little bit with myself, probably, and she'd say, you don't find your identity.
22:53
[SPEAKER_01]: You shouldn't find your identity in that.
22:55
[SPEAKER_01]: That's not it.
22:57
[SPEAKER_01]: She finds herself, and we do both, in our relationship with the Lord and with each other,
23:03
[SPEAKER_01]: I think that keeps us a little more grounded, but you look at what you're doing on stage, especially when it's rocking a big rock and band or something.
23:11
[SPEAKER_01]: And yeah, I enjoy this.
23:13
[SPEAKER_01]: And I love the music, don't get me wrong.
23:15
[SPEAKER_01]: I love getting lost in every second of it.
23:17
[SPEAKER_01]: But it's not who I am.
23:20
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a big part of what I do and I love what I do.
23:23
[SPEAKER_01]: But,
23:24
[SPEAKER_01]: a lot of people want to do it till they drop.
23:26
[SPEAKER_01]: And I have dear friends artists that tell me that, but I don't.
23:30
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't want to be 80 and out there necessarily unless I feel like it.
23:35
[SPEAKER_01]: If there's no rules, I got no rules.
23:37
[SPEAKER_01]: My friend, Dan Pen, is 84.
23:40
[SPEAKER_01]: He came over and sang.
23:41
[SPEAKER_01]: on this last record.
23:42
[SPEAKER_01]: He's coming.
23:43
[SPEAKER_01]: He's singing with me.
23:44
[SPEAKER_01]: I get to do a song in the Americana musical wards coming up very soon.
23:48
[SPEAKER_01]: 84.
23:49
[SPEAKER_01]: He fell in broke his hip a few days after he sang in my place, which wasn't that long ago.
23:53
[SPEAKER_01]: And he's coming to sing with me at the rhymen.
23:55
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, he wants you.
23:56
[SPEAKER_01]: He's still writing.
23:57
[SPEAKER_01]: He's got a studio in his basement.
23:59
[SPEAKER_01]: And I love that.
24:00
[SPEAKER_01]: I admire it.
24:01
[SPEAKER_01]: And maybe I'll feel completely different when I get there.
24:03
[SPEAKER_01]: But I want to be prepared for whatever I'm feeling.
24:06
[SPEAKER_01]: I love being in here in the kitchen, the old studio kitchen coming down and making breakfast every morning.
24:13
[SPEAKER_01]: And honestly, I make chorizo, well, not very old chorizo, sadly, anymore since my heart attack thing.
24:20
[SPEAKER_01]: But Trader Joe's so chorizo, eggs, beans, I make my own salsa because, with a cup of coffee, that's where the romance with Juliet was formed.
24:31
[SPEAKER_01]: in Austin at a little Mexican taco joint where we'd go probably three or four mornings or our morning was probably one of the afternoon and and we and have these things and I make this and even though it's not real chorizo it's close enough and I have a sip of coffee with that and it takes me right back to La Reña in 1976 or seven I mean right back and I do that intentionally and because I love it too but you know to get that feeling again and remember
25:01
[SPEAKER_00]: that's beautiful.
25:02
[SPEAKER_00]: That kind of relationship with touring and you said that Julie really grounds you and not finding where a sense of self in the music even though that's something you do in love.
25:13
[SPEAKER_00]: Is that something that has had to be worked on or evolved or grown over the years or is that something that was kind of always been present?
25:22
[SPEAKER_01]: When we were playing together, we were 100% in it and would give it everything we had and we loved singing together and
25:31
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and I think she really just meant it when you get home.
25:34
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, or looking at, oh, look at what we did on this show or this show, those video to something and being proud of it.
25:40
[SPEAKER_01]: And I completely get that.
25:42
[SPEAKER_01]: I think that's all she means.
25:42
[SPEAKER_01]: She doesn't mean don't get lost and love what you're doing.
25:45
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, yeah, no.
25:46
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
25:47
[SPEAKER_01]: Does it's just, that's not the entirety of who you are.
25:50
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I think that's something that a lot of musicians struggle with, especially coming home from tour where you night after night are getting to do this thing you love and then also hopefully getting applause in response and then you come home and you're like, wait, who am I?
26:07
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, she's got a different attitude on everything.
26:09
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, we moved here, flat broke.
26:12
[SPEAKER_01]: This is my line, but it's absolutely true.
26:15
[SPEAKER_01]: As we went broke in every major music city until we moved to Nashville.
26:19
[SPEAKER_01]: See, I don't know, San Francisco to LA to hear.
26:23
[SPEAKER_01]: And only moved here.
26:25
[SPEAKER_01]: back then because houses were dirt, cheap, so cheap.
26:29
[SPEAKER_01]: She was at the end of a little CCM deal where they didn't really like her, but we had a relationship with the label they would give references.
26:36
[SPEAKER_01]: We could talk our way into a little house that was a huge house compared and the payment on it was like one fourth or one third of what we're paying to rent in the L.A. area.
26:46
[SPEAKER_01]: We literally went bankrupt.
26:48
[SPEAKER_01]: a couple years before we moved here.
26:49
[SPEAKER_01]: So anyway, but her attitude at the same time, you know, who went bankrupt is you don't do anything for the money.
26:56
[SPEAKER_01]: Anything art related.
26:58
[SPEAKER_01]: And I take that up to have never done anything for the money, but hers is to the point of when my first record came out and we had.
27:05
[SPEAKER_01]: a lot of songs.
27:06
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, it was just timing.
27:07
[SPEAKER_01]: I have no idea why, but people were interested in the songs.
27:10
[SPEAKER_01]: They started getting recorded and we got offered a publishing deal, which that's what everybody wants.
27:15
[SPEAKER_01]: She said, no, I don't want money and the music.
27:18
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't want to have to turn in anything ever.
27:21
[SPEAKER_01]: I want to do what I want to do.
27:22
[SPEAKER_01]: So I respect that.
27:24
[SPEAKER_01]: So she's always had a slightly different attitude.
27:28
[SPEAKER_01]: And if things hadn't worked out, and hey, he feels differently about it,
27:33
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, when you I take it was in LA that you guys weren't bankrupt and with this mentality of like don't do anything for the money How did you guys navigate that back at LA?
27:44
[SPEAKER_01]: I do whatever I had to do.
27:45
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I wasn't producing back there No, although it's so funny that's a producer you might get a kick out.
27:52
[SPEAKER_01]: We lived in a little
27:54
[SPEAKER_01]: one bedroom and just living room with a kitchen at place, a little cottage in Pasadena with nothing, but what we did have was a scooter A80, Mark II, 24-track, take machine.
28:05
[SPEAKER_01]: Because her to let the label she was on took her in the studio, they liked her demos.
28:09
[SPEAKER_01]: They said these demos are great, which we made on my little Faustex 8-track.
28:13
[SPEAKER_01]: And they took her in a studio with, they didn't bring me, they brought in great session players, and it didn't work out.
28:19
[SPEAKER_01]: They spent a fortune on three songs and said, we left your demos better.
28:23
[SPEAKER_01]: Why don't you take what's left of the budget by a couple of good mics, a couple of good mic crees, and a real tape machine, which I was when kicking and screaming along with that.
28:33
[SPEAKER_01]: I love the false text.
28:34
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, I could carry it.
28:35
[SPEAKER_01]: And, uh,
28:35
[SPEAKER_02]: Mm-hmm.
28:36
[SPEAKER_01]: The gear took up with that thing probably a fourth of our the entire living space.
28:41
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh my gosh.
28:42
[SPEAKER_01]: We lived in Brooklyn before we moved to Nashville.
28:45
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh yeah.
28:45
[SPEAKER_02]: That's familiar.
28:46
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
28:47
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, we had a one bedroom apartment before we rented like a separate studio space.
28:51
[SPEAKER_00]: We had just like a whole wall of drums and a drum set is set up in our bedroom.
28:57
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
28:58
[SPEAKER_01]: That's great.
28:59
[SPEAKER_01]: I love that.
29:00
[SPEAKER_01]: I love that.
29:00
[SPEAKER_01]: I love that.
29:02
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, because you lived in New York for a little bit, right?
29:06
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, New York area.
29:07
[SPEAKER_01]: We moved from Austin.
29:08
[SPEAKER_01]: We wanted to move to the city, but I thought that was too dangerous.
29:13
[SPEAKER_01]: Because we had a van full of gear.
29:15
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
29:16
[SPEAKER_01]: I put together a band and we were playing a lot of club dates besides playing.
29:20
[SPEAKER_01]: There was a scene before you guys were born in New York in 1980, a country scene.
29:25
[SPEAKER_01]: is really strange and the country rock and the long-star cafe we went up there and opened I guess in 79 for Delber McClinton who was like king of that scene we were living in Austin the Austin scene was okay but it seemed like it was changing but let's go up to New York we don't always would just follow the music another music wherever and it didn't matter that we didn't really have any money we'd crash at people's house till we could find a place to rent
29:49
[SPEAKER_01]: And this is way before we take machine or any of that.
29:52
[SPEAKER_01]: It's fine folks.
29:53
[SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, we lived up there and I thought, well, living in the city seems dangerous with a van full of equipment.
29:59
[SPEAKER_01]: Let's move to Union City, which was just right through, is between the two tunnels on the other side in Jersey.
30:05
[SPEAKER_01]: And I found a little secret parking spot where I could back the van and two in this church and I got broken into two nights in a row.
30:12
[SPEAKER_01]: Two nights in a row, I got broken into, yeah.
30:15
[SPEAKER_01]: And my guitar, I have a lot more guitars, but my main thing is this weird Italian plastic guitar, I'm just comfortable with it.
30:23
[SPEAKER_01]: I got it for 50 bucks in a, at least it was sort of a pawn shop music shop in Colorado in the 70s and it got stolen.
30:32
[SPEAKER_01]: I drew a picture of it, put it on telephone poles and said reward, and I got it back in a week or so.
30:38
[SPEAKER_01]: It's now in the country music hall of fame.
30:40
[SPEAKER_00]: That's incredible.
30:41
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I love that story.
30:44
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I've read on the internet about the New York scene that you're a part of and like Larry Campbell.
30:49
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I'm kind of Larry and Teresa on here and so Larry, you have this thing.
30:53
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
30:54
[SPEAKER_01]: Larry was in my, my band with Julie.
30:56
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
30:57
[SPEAKER_00]: And Jim Lauderdale.
30:59
[SPEAKER_01]: That's where I met him, and I would play with the guy in kinky-freebin in the Texas two boys, two in weekends, and who else was in that band?
31:06
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, it was a lot of fun.
31:07
[SPEAKER_01]: When Julie left, Sean was an old friend from Boston, and she was in California at the time, and she came and joined our really, it wasn't bad, but it was frantic and strange country band, and she gave it some class.
31:22
[SPEAKER_00]: I've always loved reading about whatever is true or not in the different internet pockets that I've read about that.
31:29
[SPEAKER_00]: Seeing and timing your guys' life because that's how we started and I learned how to play country music in New York City.
31:34
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, in the 20s.
31:37
[SPEAKER_00]: 10's late 2000s we went to a jazz conservatory at the new school and that's where we met and then we started playing country gigs.
31:45
[SPEAKER_00]: So we would play like three hour bar sets and that's how I learned all my first country songs We had a lapsteel player friend and he gave me like a list of old country songs to learn and we'd play brunch gigs and there were places like rodeo bar and banjo gyms and rodeo
32:01
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, you know, bar was still going, oh, I love this.
32:05
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
32:05
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
32:06
[SPEAKER_00]: So many hours.
32:07
[SPEAKER_00]: We're running around on the floor.
32:09
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
32:10
[SPEAKER_01]: And then you might be talking about my croakers.
32:14
[SPEAKER_01]: I shouldn't say that.
32:15
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
32:15
[SPEAKER_01]: That was before they were croakers.
32:17
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
32:18
[SPEAKER_02]: Sunny's bar and red hook.
32:20
[SPEAKER_02]: There's a little tiny bar and smokey hormone would play there every Wednesday He'd alternate one week would be at smoky's roundup, which was like his country kind of band and the other one would be Kind of like his more afro pop kind of thing But I'd just go and listen to him and mark for a bow would sit in and all these probably
32:38
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, levels just such a stunningly beautiful player can play anything great country player.
32:45
[SPEAKER_01]: And yeah, there's so many good players up there.
32:47
[SPEAKER_01]: John Schoel, I don't know if you ever knew him.
32:49
[SPEAKER_01]: I know the name, wait, never met.
32:50
[SPEAKER_01]: It was a great scene.
32:51
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm sure it's a great scene now too, just back then.
32:54
[SPEAKER_01]: It was really, it was poppin.
32:55
[SPEAKER_00]: it's fascinating to me when these little pockets because they cycle in and out because I felt like the time that we lived there was really special and a lot of those venues are gone now rodeo bar doesn't exist anymore banjo gyms doesn't exist anymore like a lot of those musicians in Nashville we moved from Nashville in 2014 and it felt like
33:15
[SPEAKER_00]: everyone we knew in New York moved to Nashville.
33:18
[SPEAKER_00]: Also for the same reason of people wanted to live in a house and that now has changed because that was like the East Nashville scene of like the 2010s, 2010s, where yeah everybody was like able to afford a house and now I don't know any musicians who can afford to buy a house in East Nashville unless they have no what a true fund.
33:38
[SPEAKER_01]: I know what can you do.
33:40
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, we only move.
33:41
[SPEAKER_01]: We really really thought maybe we're done with music.
33:45
[SPEAKER_01]: Maybe we'll have a studer a 80.
33:46
[SPEAKER_01]: Maybe we may have a little vocal room where people who are making records is just in my head.
33:52
[SPEAKER_01]: I didn't know every other house.
33:53
[SPEAKER_01]: You knuck on the door.
33:54
[SPEAKER_01]: We'll have a two inch tape machine.
33:56
[SPEAKER_01]: But I thought, you know, maybe we'll just have a little vocal room, people can come to their vocals cheap, and we can, if we get to do something, we will.
34:03
[SPEAKER_01]: But we didn't think we'd be involved in music here, or music scene, and man, I was so happy to be proved wrong.
34:10
[SPEAKER_01]: There's so many folks like-minded, so community here.
34:14
[SPEAKER_01]: And shortly after we moved from LA, Jim moved, my friend,
34:19
[SPEAKER_01]: rented our upstairs and Lucinda moved, you know, that scene that was in L.A. a lot of people ended up here to Billy Block a lot of people.
34:27
[SPEAKER_01]: And Nashville, we fell in love with it.
34:29
[SPEAKER_01]: Then before too long, Emilu had auditions and then I got that gig, which was life changing.
34:35
[SPEAKER_00]: Mm-hmm.
34:35
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
34:36
[SPEAKER_00]: That's incredible.
34:37
[SPEAKER_00]: It's changed a lot and it'll change again as everywhere does.
34:42
[SPEAKER_01]: And how do songwriters and artists get by now?
34:46
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, because you could get by then with an album cut.
34:50
[SPEAKER_01]: You could just have album cuts on artists who weren't stars.
34:53
[SPEAKER_01]: It's an artist that released records and just an album cut on a record and when records sold, and make a living and get by just fine.
35:01
[SPEAKER_01]: But now, as you said, houses are astronomical.
35:04
[SPEAKER_01]: We've been on the same block since we moved here.
35:07
[SPEAKER_01]: We just directly across the street.
35:08
[SPEAKER_01]: We miss walked our stuff over when we move, but that's the same place.
35:13
[SPEAKER_01]: So, I have dear friends, and I just don't know how they're getting by.
35:17
[SPEAKER_01]: Everybody seems to, but how do they,
35:23
[SPEAKER_02]: Our experience is to just have a lot of pokers in the fire, you know, and rotate this one, and rotate this one, and sometimes one might start to smolder a little bit, and you got to go back, and shake it around, and then move here.
35:36
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, we mentioned this is the sixth conversation.
35:39
[SPEAKER_02]: We've recorded this week, and this is our week to turn this poker, you know, and next week to be, you know, next week to be in Nashville for American Avast, and every little poker, we got to
35:51
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I would, well, that's the same thing with me.
35:53
[SPEAKER_01]: That's, I mean, I love the idea of producing an engine.
35:56
[SPEAKER_01]: I went out as a kid.
35:56
[SPEAKER_01]: I wanted to be an engineer.
35:57
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, the one thing I learned how to do was operate a scully lathe when I was probably still a teenager.
36:03
[SPEAKER_01]: But I wanted to engineer.
36:04
[SPEAKER_01]: I didn't think I'd be able to play.
36:06
[SPEAKER_01]: But I, that was my dream of always being able to play.
36:09
[SPEAKER_01]: And I wanted to play because I wanted to sing.
36:11
[SPEAKER_01]: And you know, just things snowball.
36:12
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's all relational.
36:14
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's all just where you happen to be.
36:15
[SPEAKER_01]: But we had no plan.
36:18
[SPEAKER_01]: We had no plan at all.
36:19
[SPEAKER_01]: We had no great scheme if we're going to muscle through and we were so blessed and fortunate and lovely, you know, it's just it's a different time.
36:27
[SPEAKER_00]: We try and talk about this when we can because I feel like there's still so much kind of shrouded.
36:32
[SPEAKER_00]: Again, talk about identity and like people feeling some sort of shame if they're not making their living solely from music.
36:40
[SPEAKER_00]: and it's just harder than ever to do that.
36:43
[SPEAKER_00]: So we try to also have financial literacy of like it's important to know how to take care of ourselves financially in this business.
36:50
[SPEAKER_00]: I think a lot of people have other jobs that they don't talk about.
36:54
[SPEAKER_00]: I hear, you know, more and more friends that have cuts, songwriters who have cuts on big pop country records are
37:01
[SPEAKER_00]: or being pop or pop records, yeah, they don't feel comfortable, but I feel like we need to talk about this stuff more, but saying if we get coffee of like actually that only made me a couple thousand dollars and I'm wondering if I need to get a waitressing job.
37:16
[SPEAKER_00]: So just the disconnect of the amount of work.
37:20
[SPEAKER_00]: and even like undeniably successful things in the terms of visibility or fans or something, how it doesn't equate to financial stability in today's world as much as it maybe did in previous years.
37:35
[SPEAKER_00]: I think it's really tricky and being really scrappy, we have two children.
37:41
[SPEAKER_00]: So we've learned how to be even scrappy or it's constant negotiating of like, okay, well, I'm going to go play that festival and bring the band and lose money on that gig.
37:50
[SPEAKER_00]: But I know I'm going to go play some solo shows or a house concert or a private gig or I'm going to teach a workshop or get some private students.
38:00
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's how all those pokers and the fire you're trying to make sure they work.
38:05
[SPEAKER_01]: There's so many friends that I'm just scared to ask, so it's shameful what we all let happen to music and it's worth so much less or not worth just the way it's all downloadable and free.
38:23
[SPEAKER_00]: I think it's helping that people are talking about it more.
38:26
[SPEAKER_00]: People are being really honest about the economy of touring.
38:30
[SPEAKER_00]: If people who are even like selling tickets and very honest, I love it.
38:35
[SPEAKER_00]: I see people like Katie Prueitt who, as a friend of ours, has been on here, she actively posts her ticket sale counts.
38:43
[SPEAKER_00]: on social media and says the only way I'm going to break even is if I sell this many tickets.
38:48
[SPEAKER_00]: Look guys, New York.
38:49
[SPEAKER_00]: I've only sold 50 tickets.
38:50
[SPEAKER_00]: Can you help me?
38:51
[SPEAKER_00]: Like not portraying this sense of I'm doing well and you better get that ticket because it's going to sell out how a lot of people in the past have done.
38:59
[SPEAKER_00]: There's kind of this new movement of the odds are stacked against us.
39:03
[SPEAKER_00]: the finances are stacked against us.
39:05
[SPEAKER_00]: So we're going to actually be really honest with our audience to say like we need your help.
39:10
[SPEAKER_00]: If you care about music, this is the way that you can make sure it continues.
39:14
[SPEAKER_01]: Completely and there's so much great music out there.
39:18
[SPEAKER_01]: This is a great time for music.
39:20
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean it really is.
39:20
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a great time for music.
39:22
[SPEAKER_01]: This good quality music that deserves to be supported.
39:26
[SPEAKER_01]: I have this serious exam show that I do with my friend, Jim Lauderdale, it's weekly, so it's more of an excuse to get the hang with him, but I wanted to do it because I had a record collection that I thought I could play.
39:39
[SPEAKER_01]: Whatever I want, they let me do whatever I want, but I have artists on locally and I used to do every month or two thing called The Great Unsigned.
39:48
[SPEAKER_01]: And sometimes I'd have, you probably know, Aaron Lee Tastion with me.
39:51
[SPEAKER_01]: And have him, because he's plugged in on the east side, I say, come over, hit me to stuff that I don't know about.
39:58
[SPEAKER_01]: Folks that don't have deals that are working that are good artists.
40:02
[SPEAKER_01]: And let's play them and showcase them and do that.
40:04
[SPEAKER_01]: Because they're so, so much good music.
40:07
[SPEAKER_01]: And touring, and I don't know that social media thing, I made a decision early on.
40:11
[SPEAKER_01]: I liked my space that was before you were born.
40:14
[SPEAKER_00]: No, we got my face.
40:16
[SPEAKER_01]: But after that, I thought this is going to be a time sucker.
40:20
[SPEAKER_01]: And I made a decision, one of my sisters does that thing for me.
40:25
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know anything about it.
40:26
[SPEAKER_01]: Don't have access to the accounts and feel like maybe that's good.
40:30
[SPEAKER_02]: I think that's good.
40:31
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it's really good.
40:33
[SPEAKER_02]: As much as the positive as that is a community there and can be a community, that's such a small piece of the pie of what that whole universe is.
40:42
[SPEAKER_01]: I think it's great.
40:43
[SPEAKER_01]: It's incredible.
40:44
[SPEAKER_01]: And sometimes it's not Julie and I will go YouTube things up and watch people.
40:48
[SPEAKER_01]: But as far as getting lost in there, I haven't had the time.
40:53
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and I mean, it's something, you know, having our generation.
40:56
[SPEAKER_02]: It's an unfortunate necessity of being in the business at the moment.
41:00
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, I know.
41:01
[SPEAKER_02]: It's how I keep top of mind or somewhere in mind for artists that might be looking to make a record.
41:07
[SPEAKER_02]: I guess the best way to say it is the experience of being on social media, reverberates way after you close the app and step away from it.
41:14
[SPEAKER_02]: So it's not just the time suck of staring at your phone.
41:16
[SPEAKER_02]: It's the mental and emotional load that lingers after work.
41:20
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I see.
41:21
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
41:22
[SPEAKER_02]: It's just another thing to navigate.
41:24
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm learning about the internet.
41:26
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
41:28
[SPEAKER_02]: Thank you.
41:30
[SPEAKER_02]: You're welcome.
41:31
[SPEAKER_00]: But it's wonderful when people have others to do their social media.
41:35
[SPEAKER_00]: I always do this podcast.
41:37
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm always communicating with those people and it's really interesting to me.
41:41
[SPEAKER_00]: Like Rodney Crowe, whenever we put out something with Rodney, I'm like texting him.
41:45
[SPEAKER_00]: And he's like, I don't know.
41:46
[SPEAKER_00]: Let me find, let me find who's doing that for me.
41:49
[SPEAKER_02]: So I love it.
41:51
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, we like to be aware of the time that our guests graciously give us.
41:55
[SPEAKER_02]: We do have one final question we like to ask everybody, which is kind of an either or.
41:59
[SPEAKER_02]: You can pick either question that you'd like.
42:01
[SPEAKER_02]: And the first one is either something somebody's said to you in the past or something that you've read in the past that continues to resonate with you and keep your cup full and keep you inspired.
42:12
[SPEAKER_02]: or conversely it could be something that you wish 18 year old buddy knew when you were first trying to make a living based on your art.
42:19
[SPEAKER_01]: I was did a lot of records with T-bone Burnett playing guitars at one of the guys in the room when he was producing and I was a record that wasn't working out and he called a band meeting that night at his house for all of us because, you know, he booked it, he was producing and booked us all.
42:34
[SPEAKER_01]: He said, you know, I can't do this.
42:36
[SPEAKER_01]: He said,
42:39
[SPEAKER_01]: Tell me I can only work with people that love me and that just stuck with me as a rule and it's just so real and that's what popped into my head So I hope that's okay to steal tea bones line please.
42:53
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
42:53
[SPEAKER_02]: That was yeah.
42:54
[SPEAKER_00]: That's also a new one that we've never heard and I love that I a hundred percent agree.
43:02
[SPEAKER_01]: I appreciate you taking this time with me.
43:04
[SPEAKER_01]: So now we're going to start talking about the record right?
43:08
[SPEAKER_01]: It just came out today, yeah, I'm joking, I'm joking.
43:12
[SPEAKER_01]: This is a, I love to talk about other stuff anyway.
43:15
[SPEAKER_01]: I would remember the record.
43:16
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, we, we say that we're kind of publicist, source nightmare, because we're like the anti album campaign podcast.
43:23
[SPEAKER_00]: We're like, we'll mention it, but that's not what our podcast is about.
43:26
[SPEAKER_00]: But if it comes out around album release, I'm that's great.
43:30
[SPEAKER_00]: But yeah.
43:31
[SPEAKER_01]: And I don't care, yeah, don't put in a workload on yourself.
43:34
[SPEAKER_01]: You talk about the important stuff.
43:36
[SPEAKER_01]: Thank you for what you do, and thanks for having me.
43:38
[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you, buddy.
43:39
[SPEAKER_01]: Great spending time with you, both.
43:44
[SPEAKER_02]: We know your time is valuable and we're grateful you chose to spend this hour with us.
43:48
[SPEAKER_00]: If this conversation resonated with you, know that it is just one of many.
43:52
[SPEAKER_00]: We have an archive of over 140 conversations.
43:54
[SPEAKER_00]: So if you're looking for a way to go to next, you can find curated playlists by topic on our YouTube channel or simply scroll back in the speed to find our conversations with Rosanne Cash, New York Times bestselling author, Maggie Smith, Lucius, Jadey McPherson, and many others.
44:09
[SPEAKER_02]: This show is produced by me, Mary Chaffer-based, with help from the Kayla Anne.
44:13
[SPEAKER_02]: And all the music you hear is written, performed and produced by me as well.
44:16
[SPEAKER_00]: Our show is edited and mixed by Leland Holden at Pod Punch and we are proud numbers of the Bluegrass situation podcast network.
44:24
[SPEAKER_02]: Thanks for being here.
44:25
[SPEAKER_02]: We'll see you next time.