Latest / The Expert Method / How to Hold a Room: What Great Speakers Learn From Performers

Transcript

How to Hold a Room: What Great Speakers Learn From Performers · The Expert Method

• speaker-0: If your content's great, then what a waste if it just gets lost because people can't engage. I always think that the audience returns the energy they see up front. Effectively in a keynote, what you want you want people to go away with one single idea. Not five ideas, but one single idea. No. speaker-1: Today's guest is Tom Elliott. Tom has spent more than 15 years performing and hosting live events, and now he helps business owners and executives become stronger speakers by applying the lessons that he has learned from his performing arts. In our conversation, we talk about how to hold a room. Tom breaks down what performers understand about earning attention, how to structure a talk so people stay with you, and why great content can still fall flat if the way you deliver it does not keep the audience engaged. If you get value from this conversation, be sure to subscribe and share it with a friend. And now please enjoy my conversation with Tom Elliott. Tom, thank you so much for being here. speaker-0: No, thank you, Ian. great to join you. speaker-1: Absolutely. Sweet. So Tom, you have spent over fifteen years performing in rooms where attention like these a lot strangers, right? People who don't know you. So this attention has to be earned. It's not something that you just assume when you walk out there. And a lot of business speakers like myself seem to believe, like I believe that if okay, if my information is good enough, right, the audience will naturally just pay attention and be engaged. But Clearly that's not the case. So what do performers understand like yourself? What do performers like yourself understand about holding a room that most speakers miss? speaker-0: Yeah, do you know it's interesting, isn't it? So I've I remember back at university sitting through some lectures where the guy that was speaking was incredibly intelligent and knew a lot of what he was talking about. The problem was he wasn't very engaging. And I think sometimes we can easily believe the content is what draws people in. Absolutely, if your content's rubbish, no one's gonna stay listening. But equally If if your content's great, then what a waste if it just gets lost because people can't engage or can't sit for long enough. And I think what the arts does is it it teaches you and it molds you into this kind of ability to keep people engaged. And and so the first bit of this, so I've got like little framework, I call it the showman to speaker framework. The first bit of that is persona. And so I would say that I may I I'm slap bang in the middle of introvert extrovert. Okay. So I love my time on stage, but I also love the drive home. Yeah? So on my own. So I'm slap bang in the middle. And persona's really key on stage. And the the reason I say that is because being an introvert, sometimes you might think, well, being in that kind of high energy environment when an audience might be off-putting to me. Actually, I love it. I love the the moment of jumping on stage. And I think the the key thing here is that I talk about persona in that when you go on stage, whenever you're speaking to an audience, you need to kind of turn up the notch by ten percent, twenty percent or so. Depends on the size of the crowd you're talking to. Because if I speak to you like this on stage in front of a hundred people, very soon they're gonna get bored. But if I come on and I'm turned up the persona a notch and I'm kind of elevated in my facial expression in the way that I communicate, they're much more likely to stay engaged. So persona, turn it up a notch, ten percent, twenty percent, the bigger the audience, the bigger you need to be. Not excessive, but just a little bit more. speaker-1: Yeah. Yeah. And I can see that. Like just the energy that you're given in your answer right now is just infectious. Right. So if you can bring that energy to the stage when you're delivering your information, like you can really connect with and elevate the energy of the room. And I can see how the more people, right? Maybe the more that you need to amp that up. And then as well, like even in that moment where you turned it down a notch and you kind of slowed down, you lowered the volume. I could sense myself kind of almost start to be drawn in a little bit more. So there's I feel like just in this first couple of minutes, I'm starting to see that maybe that persona isn't just a steady state, like you need to keep it high, you need to keep it, but it's almost like one of the tools in the performance art of, you know, kind of going back and forth along the spectrum at different moments. speaker-0: Yeah, don't get me wrong. I mean, when you watch a theatre production, you you can see the moments of or even a film, you can look at film, you see the the high energy opening, the building of tension, all of that stuff, and then it pulls back and and that draws you in. But if the whole movie was kind of at that drawback level, you'd be switching off very quickly. So there needs to be a a a variation of energy presented in in how you present yourself. Yeah. Yeah. speaker-1: Yeah. Do you have a like a mental model or like an understanding of of like when to really ramp things up? Like I would imagine, like in the beginning, right, you want to open with that energy, but like when are those moments for you as the performer where you're thinking about maybe like, okay, let's draw them back, let's draw them in with my energy? Like are there specific criteria for the moments within your performance or the presentation where you should maybe draw things down a little bit and draw them in? speaker-0: Sure, so it kind of depends on what you're presenting and the topic and everything else. But the rules I have is open big and close big. If you can open and close well, with high energy, that's great. That said, some of the best closes I've seen have been soft. You know that kind of jazz club feel when they go, God bless and good night. That that sort of that sort of soft closure, that's great. If you can if that's within your character and if that Kind of sits well within what you're presenting. What I would say though is so I like to start high energy because if I start high energy, I've got everyone on board immediately. I do a lot of I host and perform at a lot of corporate events here in the UK. And corporate events typically they're quite formal. The audience are typically quite reserved. I do a lot of kind of professional services so they're accountants or they're Solicitors and lawyers and that sort of thing. So they can be quite reserved people, quite introverted people in many ways. And what they need is someone who can display the confidence and the energy that you want them to return. I always think that the audience returns the energy they see it up front. And so, in terms of structure, I like to open high the middle section. I think you've got to keep them, depends on who you are and your personality. But you've got to maintain it at a level that can keep them, you can vary it. What I would say though is about three quarters of the way through, if you're doing a keynote or if you're doing a presentation, about three quarters of the way through, you wanna change things up a little bit. And that because that's the moment at which an audience kind of drops interest a little bit. And so you wanna do something different. Maybe you introduce if you're a keynote speaker, maybe you introduce a prop, maybe you introduce a store a new story or a even a a creative illustration of some kind. Just so the audience goes, there's there's something different happening now and and it kind of re energizes them and refocuses them on what you're what you're speaking about. Mm. speaker-1: Yeah, so you almost intentionally design some kind of interrupt, right? About three quarters of the way through, right? It's no exact science, right? This is an art to begin with, right? But at some point, right, if you really want to continue to keep the audience engaged, ha some sort of pattern interrupt. And I'm sure that can show up in in many different ways. You talked about, right, maybe introducing a new story or changing the energy or introducing a prop of some kind. And before maybe we investigate and explore that idea of what pattern interrupts can look like and kind of how to build off of them how to use that kind of another one of those tools in the performance art toolkit. You brought up an idea of the speaker should display the energy that you want the audience to return back to you. And I think that's such a fascinating idea because you yourself, right, you're coming in with this big energy, right? Giving this performance to a room full of accountants, right? Nothing, nothing against accountants, but I think there's a yeah, speaker-0: Okay. speaker-1: there's maybe a stereotype of accountants maybe being like lower kind of energy, kind of more proper and constrained. So is there almost like a there's like a break, like that they see, like you're almost giving them permission to, you know, have this bigger energy when you step up there on stage and and display that to the audience. Is there something there that you're thinking about where you're almost giving the audience permission by demonstrating this action and demonstrating this energy? speaker-0: Yeah, absolutely. So I don't know if you've ever sat through a terrible performance or a terrible keynote and you you've got that sense of awkwardness. You you feel awkward, you feel you might even feel sorry for the performer or the speaker, but you feel the the tension in inside. I think whenever someone speaks without s any sort of energy, whenever they get up on stage and typically it's a And they're managing director for me, and they'll get up to introduce me and they'll go, ladies and gentlemen, welcome to tonight's show or welcome to tonight's event. Our guests be, well, and they'll read this script and with no energy whatsoever, and you can feel the awkwardness in the room. A lack of energy does exactly the same as a a bad performance, right? It makes the audience feel awkward and not sure. Immediately they're they're making their minds up. This is gonna be boring, this is gonna be a tough one to sit through. What whereas if you display energy, if you display persona and you're interesting and you're energized, perhaps more so than they are naturally, if they're a bunch of accountants or whatever it might be, what it does is it gives them confidence that you know what you're doing. It gives them confidence that you you've got the room, you're you're ready to present, and that they should turn and listen to you. Without that, they just get that awkward feeling. And once the audience has got a sense of awkwardness, it's very hard to shift. speaker-1: Yeah. Right. And I I can imagine that that's the case more often than not when you're the kind of speaker, right? There's probably a small select set of few speakers or performers where people in the audience they know, right? They know you, right? They have this expectation of you because you're just like this famous performer, right? That everybody knows. I would imagine that the default, you know, that most people that that most people in the audience are gonna have is like, okay, I don't know who this person is, like I've been Through this rodeo before. Like I know that most people aren't going to be very entertaining or very engaging. So like they you almost have to break down that wall or the defenses that people have up in the audience, right? Those expectations that, okay, this is gonna suck. This is gonna be boring. I've been to a lot of these corporate events before. I've been to these workshops, these presentations, they're not the most engaging. So you almost have to overcome that hurdle, like right out of the gates. And it sounds like the main way to do that is just with the persona element. is just coming in with that energy, with that enthusiasm in whatever way that shows up for you. speaker-0: Yeah, no, absolutely. just to comment on that. So I know I know a guy here who in the UK who's quite a well known comedian. And he says I was talking to him once about this and and he was saying actually when he when he became famous, when he became a celebrity here in the UK, he had the opposite problem in that he found it really hard to test new material because he didn't know whether the people coming to see him, who obviously came because they love him, were just laughing because it was him. And therefore he could have read he could have read a phone book or something or an address book and people would have laughed, or whether it was genuine laughter and whether he was hitting the mark. So you're right. Depending on who you are and who's come to see you, you get different challenges. You either are proving yourself and saying, come with me, or you're trying to figure out, are they actually enjoying this or are just here and laughing or or engaging because it's me and they're here for me. So it's two different problems, but yeah, very distinct. very clear and and can make the audien the performer or speaker feel quite uncomfortable if they don't go well. speaker-1: Yeah. And I think the thread or the foundation underneath all of this is and something that I just never thought about, right? I've been, you know, speaking on stages, speaking to rooms full of people now for, you know, just over a year. So I'm very early in this. And it wasn't until like a couple of months ago when I had another person on the podcast where they kind of introduced this idea to me that you need to think about. Like honestly, the most important thing to think about isn't necessarily the information that you're dis delivering, right? It's the The relationship that you're building with the audience and like their energy levels. Like again, I can't really put the right words to it, but it's just the fundamental awareness of the audience, where they're coming from, the emotional state that they have, the, the energy that they're giving. And you have to facilitate that, right? You have to be the facilitator of the energy and the emotional experience that they're that they're having and how they're receiving your information. So yeah, that's like the fundamental underlying all of it. And then there's different stages of it, right? Where you start off. They don't know who you are. They're probably gonna have more of a guard up defenses. And also it depends on the material that you're presenting. Like I talk a lot about artificial intelligence. And I just never even considered like like what are people and their biases like about the topic that I that I have to kind of like those hurdles that I have to cover initially. But anyways, so you talked about performance or persona. Sorry, persona is one of the elements of your framework. Like what are the other pieces that make up your framework? And can you kind of give us just maybe like a reintroduction to your framework and what it's designed to to do. speaker-0: Sure. Let me just say that one of the based there's so many factors that can influence how a room responds to your talk or your keynote. How you come in, if you've ever walked into a room that's silent and not playing music in the background, that's awkward. So immediately, if that's the case, an audience feels awkward before you've even come on stage because there's no there's no atmosphere being built when they enter the venue. How sit if they're sat round tables I do corporate events all the time. They're always sat around tables. And I can't change it. It's one of the things, it it's tradition. There's meals always. So I just have to deal with it. But the fact is, I know from a comedy perspective in particular, people sat around tables is a nightmare because they're spaced out from everyone else and therefore they feel exposed to laugh. And so therefore you're you're always trying to fight these barriers. But one thing you'll notice as you do it more is that you can sit in a room as people come in, or you can sit in if it's a stage, you can sit in the wing and hear the audience and you can get a feel for what you're gonna need to do. For some audiences, you think you'll listen to them and you'll hear the laughter and you'll hear the conversations buzzing and you'll think, this will this will be easy. They're they're ready for this. They're they're excited to be here. Other rooms you'll think, this feels a bit tense and a bit awkward and a bit weird. I'm gonna have to really like bring the energy in. So you'll you'll adapt as you As you do it more, you start to feel this stuff before it you've even stepped on stage. In terms of the next bit of the the the framework, so the next thing's grounding. And this is a really quick and simple thing, really. A lot of people, when they get to go on stage for the first time, understandably, they're feeling a bit nervous, right? They're feeling a bit they they've practiced for hours in the in the mirror, they've practiced the home, but nothing quite matches that moment you step on stage. And you know, I've I've been doing this 20 years, and I wouldn't say I get nervous as such. I get like a an energized feeling because I'm doing a lot of the time, I'm doing stuff that I've done a hundred times before. I know it works. And if it doesn't work, for me it's just like a bad day at the office. Yeah. But so I I I don't get nervous as such, but I get that energized feeling. But even then, I would say that my head sometimes. runs at like a million miles per hour when I'm on stage. There's that kind of adrenaline rush. So much going on and I'm in the moment. I'm responding to stuff in the moment. I'm delivering whatever routine I've worked on. And my head's going at a pace. When that happens, the same thing happens if you get nervous. And when that happens, what you've got to watch for is how your body then responds. If you've ever seen someone on stage nervous, you'll normally spot an irritating habit. And if you're looking for it, it starts to really irritate you once you see it. And that they might stand on one leg, for instance. They'll swing one of their legs. They'll walk a around the stage not in a planned or or productive way, but in a very excessive, distracted, kind of ADHD way, like that sort of moving around all of the time. And you've just got to watch for that because it's very distracting to an audience. If an audience is constantly kind of moving their eyeballs from one side to the other. And you're you don't stop moving, your legs swinging, your arms are all over the place, you're fiddling with your fingers, whatever it is. There's so many things you just gotta watch yourself and just be super aware of it next time you go and speak. speaker-1: Yeah. And I have made that mistake before. I remember I gave a presentation to a room of maybe I don't know, like thirty people. It was like a small little I don't know, it was at a brewery and it was like their event space and I was up in front, everybody sitting down at tables, and I spent the entire hour of my presentation like walking, like just walking the whole time, just back and forth, back and forth, back and forth. And it was just like a tick. It was just because I was nervous and I was just like it felt like I had to stay in motion and I maybe Somewhere in my past I heard like, Yeah, you should kind of move around the stage or I move around the thing. And it was just like I got that feedback immediately from someone who was kind enough to kind of give me that feedback afterwards. It's like, hey, for next time, just like don't move around so much. Yeah. Yeah. And I Yeah. The thing you speaker-0: Okay, you can do it. If you if you haven't got someone to give you honest feedback, the best thing you can do is film yourself. And I know that all of us hate watching ourselves back. It doesn't really get any better. Like, even I don't like watching myself back because we're all our own harshest critic. Okay. But what it does do is it reveals some of the irritating habits that we have. And and and look, you it's a lifetime lifelong journey because I still watch myself back and go, man. don't like it, the way that I speak there or the way that I act there and and it starts to reveal all of the s you you watch it like an audience member, but an extra harsh audience member. speaker-1: Yeah. Absolutely. Yep. And I've finally, you know, this is episode I think ninety four of the podcast. I think I went fifty podcasts without ever listening to myself. Just because it was just I never want to do it. But there is so much that you can pick up from watching myself in it, like trying to maintain directional eye contact towards the camera. But yeah, there's just so much that you can pick up and watching it back. But another thread that I think is worth pulling on or lingering on here. Is really the value of that ability to ground yourself when you're there up on stage. And what I was hearing is that the value of grounding yourself, right? And being able to just kind of create some stillness, slow down the thousand mile an hour, thousand thought a minute, right, brain that you can get when you're up there on stage is really to allow you to use that tool that is persona, right? So if I could just repeat back my understanding of everything that I've learned so far here. To you, and then maybe you can poke holes in what I have. So, really to give a great performance, right? As the performer, you are the facilitator of the energy in the room, right? The energy and it you need to facilitate the energy in the right way in order for your information to really land and to really stick. And you do that through your persona, right? Through the energy that you display as the speaker. Because again, like going back to the idea of you display the energy that you want the audience to reciprocate. So you need you can only do that when you are like aware and you're paying attention and you're attuned to the energy and how the audience is receiving the information. And you can't do that when you're moving 10,000 miles a minute when I'm just walking back and forth through across the stage, right? So you you have this grounding ability in order to kind of create that stillness and that awareness for you to see how this information is being received so that you can use the tool of your persona in the right manner. Is that roughly correct? speaker-0: Yeah, no, absolutely. I remember when when I was in school actually, I did a bit of theater when I was in school, and we had this typical kind of theater director, big personality. And my I I was a foot swinger at the time. And I remember I'd I'd got a main part one year, and I was, I don't know, singing this I was singing at the time, I was doing this solo, whatever. And she'd come and she'd hold my feet to the stage and she'd be like, Tom, lock your feet in, like this. And big personality. And it it was that that taught me about grinding because my nervous energy and and me trying to kind of turn the persona up, if you like. I wasn't thinking like that at the time, but that's what I was trying to do, meant that I was all over the place. And it was like she'd she grabbed my feet, she pushed them to the stage and was like, Lock your feet in here, straight, like lock your kneecaps in, stand and deliver what it is you're delivering. Same applies for us now. By all means, that Walking around stage, if done well, is quite engaging. But it's but I I'd say to begin with, as you're developing the skill, learn to stand and deliver without all of the extras. Because you can deliver and keep the attention grounded and and in one place. When you start walking, it will be controlled and not just excessive walking around the stage like you don't know what you're doing. speaker-1: Yeah. Incredible. Amazing. So something that's just again on my mind is like, so when you are working on a performance, right? Where do you start? Like how where do you start in designing a performance that's really gonna land? Like, are you thinking about, you know, not just the information that you want to deliver and the things that you want to say? I would imagine you absolutely don't start there. Are you starting with maybe more of like an idea of okay, this is the energy that I want the room to have at different stages. Like where do you start when you're when you're designing a a message that you really want to land? speaker-0: So this is all about structure, which is actually another part of the framework. So and actually w what follows on is is helpful. So we'll put it this way around. So we'll talk about structure. Years ago, I I was probably about 15 or 16. so I'm 36 now, so a long time ago. I went on a weekend to learn about street performance. Now, I don't know, I don't know what you get in Arizona, but here in the UK, in in central London. We have street performers and they're people who do magic on little tables in the middle of Covent Garden in London. Do you have this sort of thing in Arizona? speaker-1: No. speaker-0: No. well, we have street performers, so they it might be musician, it might be people that pretend to be like stone models, but they're dressed up and they're painted silver and that and then they move when you put money in the thing and they collect money. Traditionally they'd have a hat and at the end of their performance or whatever it is, they ask for money and people come and put money in the hat. Okay. Now. I I went on a weekend course to learn how to do this. Now, performing in a street or in a town center is another skill set altogether because the audience has got no loyalty to you. There's no reason why they need to stay there. If they want to carry on walking, they are perfectly entitled to it. And you can't, it's not like you've they've bought a ticket and they're locked in this theater. It doesn't work like that. They they're there and they can walk at any point. So I in terms of structure, you have to think. About how this works. And also you want to keep them until the end. Because at the end is when you ask for the money. So if you're going to try and make a living all out of this, you need to build that crowd as big as you can and you need to keep them. So when I'm structuring any sort of performance, I'm thinking through okay, how do I open? How do I then keep them throughout the throughout the keynote or wherever it might be? And then how do I finish so that they remember what I've said all along? No. In the street performance, this is what I I learned. So I was learning I had a straight jacket, like literally a a straight jacket they used to put on prisoners. Yeah. And I I was doing a straitjacket escape to finish my street performance. So I put it on, I'd be strapped up, all around the back, under my legs, all of that stuff. And then I would escape dramatically and pop out of it. And the guy I I know, weird, hey. the guy that was leading the course, he said to me, Tom, he was like You need to do that at the end of your set. So maybe I was doing fifteen minutes. He was like, do that in the last five minutes. But show people in the first five minutes. So when you're trying to build your audience, you're shouting across the town centre, ladies and gentlemen, live straight jacket escape here in Wales, whatever it might be, and use show this strait jacket. As people are walking round, they're seeing this strait jacket and going, he's gonna do a straight jacket escape. And they'll they're intrigued and they'll walk on in. and then they might come and stand around where I'm performing. And you keep doing that after every little bit you've done, you announce the straitjacket again and more people gather. So this is the this is the capturing attention, but it's also keeping them because you're not doing it straight away. You've kind of piqued their interest, but you've said, Not yet. We're not doing it just yet. We're going to come back to that in a minute. And then a little bit further along, and then he says, Tom, when you get to the straitjacket, put it on. Get all the straps done up and then stand there and talk for a long time. not a long time, but a bit longer. And this is the point that you asked for money. Because he said nobody's gonna go and finish their shopping if they've come to see you do that straight jacket escape and you haven't done it yet. And so at this point, when you're stood there all strapped up with straps everywhere, this is the point at which you say, ladies and gentlemen, if you've enjoyed my performance, would you come and drop a five pound note, ten pound note, or whatever in the hat? And he says, What just people do? And I remember doing it for the first time. I didn't make loads of money at all, but it was my first time doing it. But I remember watching people come and and and just drop coins or the odd note herein. And it's because I'd kept their attention and they'd come and they wanted to see me escape. So it was almost not forced, but you know what I mean? It was pressure for them to come and if you want to see the end of this, you need to come and drop something in. And then I escaped, they all made a big noise. And then at the end, again, more people come and and then give you money. So in the same way, when we're thinking about a keynote, we need to be thinking, okay, how can I pique their interest and how can I signal what's coming at the end in order that they stay interested throughout the whole thing? And how do I make my call to action, whatever that might be, whether it's a sales pitch or whether it's a a kind of an action for them to take away or or to buy your book or whatever it might be. How can I strategically place that at the point that they are going, I need to see the end of this. I need to they've piqued my interest, they've kept me. I'm more and more interested as we've gone on, and now I need to do something. And that's the point. So it's all about structure, it's all about carefully crafting your keynote or your presentation so that it captures their attention, it p it holds their inter attention, and then it calls them to action at just the right moment. speaker-1: Hmm. That's awesome. I mean, we might need to have you back on and and show us that that straight jacket escape. I'm I'm intrigued already. okay, so that's super interesting. So you're almost like, I don't know why this idea won't leave me, but it's just like you're like showing the gun, right? Like in the movie, like you see the gun and then it doesn't come back until later in the movie, right? Like you peak the interest, you hold up the strait jacket, right? You kind of show them the the thing that's gonna come back in the end, right? That's peaking their interest for what's to come. And then that holding their interest in the middle there is where I have the most questions. Is like, so what do you I mean, I guess that's kind of like the core of your presentation, the core of your talk, right? And then it's like the use of story and it's just being interesting and engaging throughout the holding of attention. But then it all just kind of builds to that final crescendo, right? Like I would imagine that the the holding of attention should be related to whatever that final, you know, reveal is going to be, right? speaker-0: Yeah, I think with with keynotes, I think it's helpful to effectively say one thing but in multiple different ways. Effectively in a keynote, what you want, you want people to go away with one single idea. Not five ideas, but one single idea. Now, you might get to that one single idea through three different avenues. And so therefore it feels like it might be three different points, but actually they're all the same. And what this enables you to do, if you think of it like that, it means that throughout the presentation, you can do the Holding up a straitjacket moment, you can pique their interest. Here's here's what's coming at the end. Because I this is the avenue. Avenue number one, I tell a story, I've made a point. Avenue number two, tell a story, make a point. You're effectively saying the same thing three different times, but in in different ways. And so, and by doing that, you're both keeping their interest, but you're also reinforcing the the point that you're going to make at the end. And then it what happens is if you do it well. Is at the end it all feels like it's a jigsaw puzzle that's all come together. And the audience feels satisfied that that it's all joined together now and it all makes sense because all of these avenues have come to the same place. speaker-1: Yeah, all of the open loops have been closed. Okay. Awesome. Yeah, I think there's an idea there worth underlining that another mistake that I'm realizing that I make in hearing you explain this is way too many ideas. Like way too many different things covered and like one like no real clear core idea. It's like a bunch of like open, kind of relatively related ideas. But I don't think I have like one core idea that I'm entering every presentation or every talk. focused on delivering and then I'm not designing it in a way where it's like, okay, I'm really peaking the interest at the beginning. So there's so much to take away from this. I really appreciate it. speaker-0: Also think of it like this though. If you've got loads of ideas, that's potentially loads of different talks that you can now develop. And so perfect for rebookings, right? speaker-1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah. I love it. speaker-0: Shall I move on to the next bit of the framework? 'Cause this here's another I think in terms of a bit of gold really. How do you Ian, how do you when you prepare a talk, what do you do? Do you script the whole thing? Do you bullet point? How do you go about kind of putting all the words together? speaker-1: Yeah. So at this point for me, I'm still like a slides guy. I don't have like a lot of words or anything on the slides, but the slides are good just to help me like one in the putting together of the slides, it helps me really think through the narrative, like the flow of everything of the information, helps me like structure it in a way that helps me. Yeah. So like honestly, like as I'm putting together everything, I am almost like scripting exactly what it is that I want to say. I don't really write out word for word. And then when I'm up there delivering it, I'm not reading it word for word. But it's yeah, I still use like slides and bullet points, things like that. speaker-0: That is music to my ears because my my kind of fourth point is don't memorize but internalize. And so a lot of news speakers will will try and they'll write their script out word for word, they'll learn it, they'll spend hours learning it. And then they get on stage and their heads going at a pace and they're trying to ground themselves and they're trying to do all of this stuff. But the minute they skip over a word or the minute they trip over a a line, they they panic because all of a sudden their brain is scrambling to try and find that place in the script and they can't remember it. And maybe they haven't got notes and they lose their they lose their point. Now, we're chatting now. You've not scripted your every word for this conversation. You might have thought through some questions, you might have but you've not scripted every word. Hello, Tom, how are you? You that would be weird, right? And it's the same on stage. You can you can tell when someone's just reciting a script. you can tell in their tone of voice, because they they say it in like a reading voice, and it's it's a bit strange. So what I always say is don't memorize it, but internalize it. As if in the same way that you're talking about your holiday last week, you don't write a script to tell your friends about your holiday. You just you've it you've lived it, you've experienced it, you've internalized it enough to be able to talk about it very naturally. And so This needs to happen with with a keynote or any sort of presentation as well. You should be able to give the same presentation with different wording every time, maybe, but it comes from a very natural place. And so what I suggest people do is that if you want to write a script word for word, that's fine. But then reduce it to bullet points and then reduce it to words like keywords and then just do it over and over again so that you can deliver it. And you might not use the same structure. Or sorry, sorry. not might you not use the same sentences, but you you've got the structure and you've got your key points and there might be one or two lines that you you kind of phrase and craft properly. Yeah. For instance, into don't memorize but internalize. but you're not you're not panicking about if I say this differently or if I forget to say that bit or if because it you've internalized it rather than scripted it. speaker-1: Yeah. Yeah, that sounds like there's like a difference between, you know, memorizing it and and knowing it, right? Like you just know your talk, right? That's the internalization of it. Like you know the core points, kind of the flow of the presentation. And I've found myself, yeah, like if I think back, like I've there's two presentations that I've given probably a couple dozen times each. And I remember thinking back to like the early like the first time that I give any kind of presentation still as I'm developing this skill and this ability. It is a lot clunkier where I am like married to very specific words that I've thought through and it's clunky and messy. Like if I do mess something up, it's like the panic in the moment. But then as I've gotten more and more reps with those other presentations, it's like, okay, I know what the core points, like the stages of this journey that we're gonna go through. And I need to update and revise those for sure. But yeah, I can definitely feel the difference between that internalization and the memorization. I think you start with like that memorization a little bit and then you kind of have to evolve. into the eternalization with each presentation and each keynote that you give. But speaker-0: Well, just the final bit and it's w it it kind of backs up what you've just said, really. I admire speakers who have to deliver a new talk on a regular basis. I think that's an incredible thing. For me personally, there is benefit in doing the same thing over and over and over again. And I'd encourage anyone that's new to speaking, develop one great presentation, one talk that you deliver over and over and over again until you're sick of it. And what you you'll realize in doing that is your learn bits, you'll tweak bits, you'll adjust things, your grinding will be better because you will find more confidence as you go and do it. And so the repetition, do why don't you go and do fifty of before you write your next one? And I tell you, by by speech number forty nine, you will be buzzing and you'll be able to deliver that without any hesitation whatsoever. speaker-1: Yep. Absolutely. And I know thinking back to myself, like that's not the the favorite thing that people want to hear, right, when they're listening to this. Maybe somebody's listening to this and they want to get started. They want to start delivering their keynotes, right? It's just the worst like I remember not loving hearing that. It's like you gotta just go do it fifty times, but there is just no way around that. Right. I I've I've learned that in my own experience. And it's the same thing with everything. It's the same thing with, you know, podcasting, being a podcast host or giving a keynote speech or literally doing anything. Like you just have you can't skip The reps and you can help yourself, you can serve yourself by doing the same thing, like the same presentation instead of 50 different ones. because you can just compound and then, you know, all those adaptations, those little subtle changes that you make are all based on and grounded in how the audience receives it. Right. It's like you have to get up in front of an audience and deliver this, and then you're gonna be able to know what changes and adaptations to make based on how the audience is responding, which Can only happen when you have the awareness, which I didn't have for for a long time. I thought it was just like me and my information, but it's really the the audience and how they respond to. Yeah, too. Yeah. I appreciate speaker-0: example though of learning as you've done more and that's that's the only way really I mean look I I'm beginning to coach people in this and all of that's helpful and the things we've talked about today is helpful but actually the best learning curve is just getting up there and doing it and and you'll pick up even if subconsciously you'll pick up on some of the things that we've talked about today because because you'll feel it when you're up there. You'll have experienced some of this already you've you already knew that you were walking around too much. in in some ways you already sense that I need to turn up my persona a little bit. You might not be able to use those words, but I think anyone that does this at all soon picks up the the art of being able to engage an audience. Yeah. speaker-1: And the beauty of having the words, right, based on like the with the work that you're doing in this conversation and what the like now me, like having the words just can help sharpen the focus for me on like what to pay attention to and what to improve on and what to intentionally work on moving forward. So having the words is super helpful because it can help you to make more targeted practice and more targeted improvements on the right things. So I think there's a ton of value still with this. But Tom, thank you so much for the time. I have one final question for you. It's a recurring question I ask every guest. But before we get to that, where can people find you? speaker-0: Well, if you if you go to hello tom.co dot uk, that takes you to all of my work, both from posting and performing, but also a little bit of the coaching programme that I'm developing for for this kind of work. Equally though, the best thing you can do is pop over to Amazon and get this book here. It's called Breaking the Script. It basically talks about everything that we've talked about today, but in a story form. And it's interestingly, it's it's f it's about an entrepreneur is at the top of his game, but gets invited to speak at conferences but can't Bear the idea. And he's got a friend in the arts who then takes him around a number of kind of arts classes. So an improv class, a stand-up comedy class, a street performing, and he learns all of these different things as he experiences it. So pick up a copy. I think they're less than 10 pounds. I don't know what that is in dollars, but you'll love it. It's a it's an easy read and and you'll learn stuff and be able to apply some of this stuff as well. speaker-1: Amazing. Yeah, those are my favorite kinds of, you know, business or like educational books are the ones that use story or like a fable to kind of paint the principles. Like Patrick Lincioni yeah does a lot of that. Yeah. And he's writing about a subject that isn't the most glamorous or sexy, right? It's like culture and right, like the soft skills of business. And he uses those fables of stories, which makes learning that subject and internalizing the the principles a lot more effective. So Yeah, we'll have the links to everything in the description. Go pick up a copy. Breaking the script, Tom Elliott. Thank you so much. everybody go check that out. And my final question for you, Tom, as I mentioned, is a recurring question that I ask every guest. And it's this if you had a giant billboard that everyone in the world could see for ten seconds with like one message to the world, what would it say? Why? speaker-0: I love this. So this is like my motto for life. And it that is simply this it's live well, dream big, and laugh often. Because that sums up everything that I'm about. I want to live well. I want to make the most of the gift of life that I've been given. I want to dream big because hey, if you're not shooting for big dreams, then what's the fun? Hey, it's fun, even if you never get there, it's fun in trying to build it and trying to get there. And finally, laugh often because if you don't enjoy life, We're missing out. So whether that's in with comedy or whether it's around friends or in family, whatever it is, live well, dream big, laugh often. speaker-1: Love it. Live well, dream big, and laughed often. Thanks, Tom. speaker-0: Thanks, Ian.