Latest / Long Haul Marriage Roadcast / Believe What You Will, But HOPE for the Best!

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Believe What You Will, But HOPE for the Best! · Long Haul Marriage Roadcast

0:20
Speaker 1: You should. Well, here we are baby back in action.
0:25
Speaker 2: Yes, I hope I remember how to do this. It's
0:28
Speaker 2: been a while.
0:29
Speaker 1: It's like riding a bike.
0:31
Speaker 2: Speaking of riding a bike, falling off a log.
0:33
Speaker 1: Oh we had Okay, So welcome back to the roadcast. Everybody.
0:38
Speaker 1: We appreciate it. We appreciate everybody reaching out to us
0:41
Speaker 1: on our little break saying you missed it. All the
0:44
Speaker 1: two people who listen, Yeah, we appreciate y'all.
0:47
Speaker 2: The pair of you.
0:48
Speaker 1: Yes to the both of you, we thank you. But
0:52
Speaker 1: we're back and ready to kick off the fall with
0:56
Speaker 1: the pre fall. Man, I wish it was fall.
1:00
Speaker 2: Can you let's just think about that. Yeah, what's your
1:03
Speaker 2: favorite thing? We probably shouldn't get into that, But what
1:05
Speaker 2: do you when you say I can't wait for fall?
1:08
Speaker 2: What do you think about just the.
1:10
Speaker 1: Smell of the Uh, there's a different smell in the
1:14
Speaker 1: pavement when I go walking. It's not my melted shoes
1:19
Speaker 1: and my yeah, melted body, but yeah, it's uh, I'm
1:24
Speaker 1: just looking forward to that cool weather. And it's such
1:28
Speaker 1: a weird feeling when you go outside now, it's just crazy.
1:32
Speaker 1: I mean it's like you can only breathe and you know,
1:34
Speaker 1: it's just sad people aren't they're not outside the apocalypse.
1:38
Speaker 2: But also, what about speaking of apocalypse? No, what about
1:42
Speaker 2: this first dun dut du du done?
1:45
Speaker 1: Yes, football d d d yes, thank you that I
1:49
Speaker 1: have a football wife. But I'm looking forward to all that.
1:52
Speaker 1: But we've had so much during our time off, just
1:56
Speaker 1: so much life, lots of lots of life. I wouldn't
2:01
Speaker 1: say I was gonna say transition, but it's not really
2:06
Speaker 1: transition or transitions, just life happening and growth and signs
2:10
Speaker 1: of life, signs of growth, signs of grandkids growing.
2:14
Speaker 2: Up, signs of death, the loss.
2:18
Speaker 1: Of friends and loved ones and ver babies and friends, fathers,
2:26
Speaker 1: and yeah, lots. We officiated a couple of funerals during
2:31
Speaker 1: the time off, and uh been doing a lot of weddings,
2:35
Speaker 1: though a lot of premarital with couples. Uh Ruus started
2:39
Speaker 1: school today.
2:40
Speaker 2: Yeah, Carson, our son is moved out, moved out to
2:45
Speaker 2: a new place in Denton. Amazing. So we are town home.
2:49
Speaker 2: So yeah, I didn't realize that you start were.
2:52
Speaker 1: Empty nesting well and then the loss of our ASKI
2:56
Speaker 1: yeah's and you wrote about that. Man, There's just so
2:59
Speaker 1: much and you man, you're writing, babe. People love it
3:05
Speaker 1: the stuff you post, and you were telling me you
3:07
Speaker 1: hadn't been inspired and you don't like to just post.
3:10
Speaker 1: I mean you post a lot as far as just
3:11
Speaker 1: what we're doing and keeping everybody somebody. One of our
3:15
Speaker 1: donors and supporters of Long Haul Marriage reached out and said,
3:19
Speaker 1: great newsletter this last month, and I really appreciated that,
3:23
Speaker 1: and that was again well done on that newsletter. Shout
3:26
Speaker 1: out to you and Janie or hey, hey, or what
3:29
Speaker 1: is it we're doing?
3:30
Speaker 2: Hey, Janie Purvis, Janie Purvis. But yeah, so I come
3:35
Speaker 2: up with the content and Jane makes it look like
3:40
Speaker 2: we know something.
3:42
Speaker 1: It looks great.
3:43
Speaker 2: Jane puts it together in Canva or whatever she does.
3:47
Speaker 2: She's like a magician. So man, we really really appreciate you, Jane,
3:54
Speaker 2: just making it look so great every month for us.
3:57
Speaker 1: Yeah, we've had there's so many people who are celebrating
4:01
Speaker 1: things and then so many people that are just struggling
4:03
Speaker 1: right now in our hearts. You know, you say it
4:06
Speaker 1: all the time. We're you know, we are no strangers
4:09
Speaker 1: to walking through struggle in our own marriage, and we're
4:12
Speaker 1: no obviously no strangers to grief, and we just try
4:16
Speaker 1: to share and live out loud and share that with
4:19
Speaker 1: other couples and just be be real, be very vulnerable
4:22
Speaker 1: and transparent with our own stuff. And that's I mean,
4:25
Speaker 1: I think that's where people get help. But yeah, your
4:28
Speaker 1: latest post on the loss of Rasci I watched. I
4:33
Speaker 1: don't know why, but I'm still kind of surprised at
4:36
Speaker 1: how hard that hits you. And we all grieve in
4:40
Speaker 1: different ways, you know that we all, you know, go
4:42
Speaker 1: through it differently. But man, to watch you, you know,
4:46
Speaker 1: lose Jesse a couple of years ago, our fur baby,
4:51
Speaker 1: and then to watch you grieve the loss of Rascal,
4:54
Speaker 1: who was Channing Ryan's dog that we ended up keeping
4:58
Speaker 1: once they started having kids, and so he's been our
5:01
Speaker 1: dog for like fourteen years, you.
5:03
Speaker 2: Know, I mean ours for about seven and there or
5:08
Speaker 2: eight and there's for ten.
5:10
Speaker 1: Or eleven, but really fourteen.
5:14
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, because even when they had him, they
5:17
Speaker 2: would come over a lot, so we've known him for
5:20
Speaker 2: that long, but he's actually lived lived with us for
5:23
Speaker 2: quite a few years.
5:24
Speaker 1: So how are you feeling?
5:25
Speaker 2: Just today, I'm feeling better, I'm feeling a little lighter,
5:30
Speaker 2: but for days felt a real heaviness and sadness, and
5:37
Speaker 2: so whenever I feel you know, a lot of emotions
5:41
Speaker 2: kind of bubbling up a lot of thoughts around those emotions,
5:45
Speaker 2: it really helps me to process through writing it. And
5:49
Speaker 2: then some people are okay, like I'm just going to
5:52
Speaker 2: journal my thoughts. I like to process and then I
6:00
Speaker 2: like to put it out there, you know, because I
6:03
Speaker 2: do feel like, I mean, my heart is to relate
6:06
Speaker 2: to people, is to help people, and so I really
6:09
Speaker 2: do think when something resonates with me, like very strongly,
6:16
Speaker 2: like I think I am not the only one. And
6:19
Speaker 2: if I felt like inspired in these thoughts like now,
6:24
Speaker 2: I couldn't even go back and tell you what I wrote,
6:27
Speaker 2: like I kind of can. I mean, I remember what
6:29
Speaker 2: I wrote about. But literally, when I sat down and
6:32
Speaker 2: started writing that stuff, it was days of me just
6:36
Speaker 2: kind of taking my phone and opening up the notes
6:40
Speaker 2: app and just I'd have a random thought and just
6:43
Speaker 2: voice text it into my notes app. And then when
6:46
Speaker 2: I sat down and felt like, you know what, I'm
6:48
Speaker 2: ready to kind of put it all together. I just
6:50
Speaker 2: felt like, I think I'm not the only one who
6:55
Speaker 2: struggles in their grief or trying to put some of
7:00
Speaker 2: their feelings into words. So maybe this would connect with
7:03
Speaker 2: some people and help them kind of figure out and
7:07
Speaker 2: almost give them permission.
7:10
Speaker 1: And I was yes, and I was just saying, how
7:14
Speaker 1: you do put words to what so many of us
7:16
Speaker 1: are feeling, and the way you just like nail it
7:19
Speaker 1: like it just seems like like yeah I thought that,
7:22
Speaker 1: Yes I felt that, and the way you say it
7:24
Speaker 1: is just perfect and you do it just it's like
7:27
Speaker 1: you do it justice. And what's interesting is so many
7:30
Speaker 1: of us would their inspiration or our inspiration may come
7:33
Speaker 1: from the highlight reels or when times are good, and
7:36
Speaker 1: like when things suck or when we're not, when we
7:38
Speaker 1: are feeling heavy, maybe we wouldn't write. That's when we'd
7:42
Speaker 1: isolate or just go underground and just wait to feel
7:45
Speaker 1: up to it again. And where you drew inspiration from
7:48
Speaker 1: feeling that heaviness and thinking, I want to share this
7:50
Speaker 1: because you know it's going to connect. I mean again,
7:53
Speaker 1: we always say we're all hanging by a thread. We're
7:55
Speaker 1: all fighting a tough battle. I mean, even if we
7:59
Speaker 1: have the ups, there are the downs. We have the
8:02
Speaker 1: you know, obviously the peaks, but we got the vallets. Man,
8:05
Speaker 1: everything sounds so cliche, but when we do we're carrying
8:08
Speaker 1: both at the same time, and that's what we try
8:10
Speaker 1: to help people do because that's what life is. You're
8:12
Speaker 1: going to be carrying all the winds and the l's
8:16
Speaker 1: at the same time and to be able to But
8:19
Speaker 1: the way that you found the strength to like articulate
8:23
Speaker 1: those really I mean the deep grief you were feeling
8:26
Speaker 1: and put words to it, and I think it just
8:28
Speaker 1: inspired and helped a lot of people. So if you
8:30
Speaker 1: didn't see Jamie's latest posts like on Facebook or Instagram,
8:34
Speaker 1: go check it out because I think it's really good.
8:37
Speaker 1: And yeah, okay, good for you. You need to wherever you
8:42
Speaker 1: read it. But what's interesting is someone someone said, you know,
8:45
Speaker 1: usually I just scroll by a long post like again,
8:48
Speaker 1: and that's that's a lot of it. It's like, man,
8:50
Speaker 1: that's long and sometimes just settling in. Man. I read
8:56
Speaker 1: a long post on substack the other day and I thought,
8:59
Speaker 1: I'm just going to do this because I you know,
9:01
Speaker 1: the title grabbed me. The first few really its sentences,
9:05
Speaker 1: but then the first paragraph, I mean, this dude's a
9:07
Speaker 1: really good writer, and it was talking about beauty and
9:11
Speaker 1: ended up sending it to you and Chandler because of
9:14
Speaker 1: just what it unlocked in me, just knowing kind of
9:17
Speaker 1: a heart for you too, and the beauty that you
9:18
Speaker 1: both embody that goes far beyond how our culture defines
9:23
Speaker 1: beauty and how they literally it's the antithesis sometimes of
9:27
Speaker 1: true beauty. We miss it, you know. We see beauty
9:30
Speaker 1: is you know, skin deep and the external and some
9:34
Speaker 1: object to consume if it's a woman or whatever, instead
9:37
Speaker 1: of true beauty that in this case, the guy was saying,
9:40
Speaker 1: it makes him want to be a better man, like
9:43
Speaker 1: I want to live up to not hey, so so
9:46
Speaker 1: you can to win her love, but it's like you
9:48
Speaker 1: inspire me to be the best version of myself because
9:51
Speaker 1: of the beauty to embody, which is I think a
9:55
Speaker 1: strong thing that a woman can do for a man. Yeah,
10:00
Speaker 1: in marriage and and so. But yeah, it was cool
10:02
Speaker 1: to see kind of the proverbs thirty one woman and
10:05
Speaker 1: then some if you will just yeah, it was good.
10:09
Speaker 1: But to read to sit down and allow your attention span,
10:13
Speaker 1: that is, you know, their algorithm knows that we're you know,
10:17
Speaker 1: used to three to five seconds. If it's going to
10:19
Speaker 1: maybe the top one two seconds, it's going to grab
10:22
Speaker 1: you or not, and you're going to scroll. But then
10:24
Speaker 1: you kind of get restless. If you're into something and
10:26
Speaker 1: you see, oh my gosh, look at it, it's long man,
10:29
Speaker 1: settle in, go for it. But yeah, you're you're you're
10:32
Speaker 1: writing it was really really good. So so we've had
10:37
Speaker 1: a lot going on, and kind of in the last
10:41
Speaker 1: few months. You know, they're you know, people are traveling,
10:45
Speaker 1: they take off sometimes and they're on vacation. The kids
10:48
Speaker 1: are home. But now it's just everybody's thinking fall, at
10:52
Speaker 1: least for us, the fall season of back to school,
10:55
Speaker 1: and so people get into kind of the grind. Some
10:58
Speaker 1: people are looking forward to that, the season change. Some
11:01
Speaker 1: people are looking forward to getting back into a routine.
11:05
Speaker 1: Some people are going to miss and I think, or
11:07
Speaker 1: maybe all the above. We're going to miss summer and
11:10
Speaker 1: seeing those kids. But now they're back in school, we
11:13
Speaker 1: can kind of have some sense of quote normalcy, whatever
11:16
Speaker 1: that means. But there's also this scary world we're living
11:21
Speaker 1: in and this uncertainty, and again depending on what you
11:25
Speaker 1: don't have to be into politics at all just to
11:28
Speaker 1: still feel the effects of things are tough right now.
11:33
Speaker 1: I mean just they're tough. There's a lot of uncertainty
11:36
Speaker 1: with a lot of different things, and mostly because of
11:39
Speaker 1: what we all consume on social media. What we're seeing.
11:41
Speaker 1: You don't have to be you know, watching TV and
11:43
Speaker 1: the news quote unquote anymore. A lot of people have
11:45
Speaker 1: lost trust and you know, legacy media if you will,
11:49
Speaker 1: but or the mainstream media. But we all have social media,
11:53
Speaker 1: and so we've seen that affecting a lot of the couples.
11:58
Speaker 1: And we've had a lot of conversation with you young folks,
12:01
Speaker 1: whether they're in relationship or not. Just a lot of
12:04
Speaker 1: the uncertainty that's going on and some of the hopelessness.
12:08
Speaker 1: And one of the things when you said earlier, you
12:10
Speaker 1: said apocalypse or something like that. It's interesting you brought
12:14
Speaker 1: that word because I got into a discussion with my boys.
12:18
Speaker 1: You know, we'd both we'd all seen stuff about AI.
12:21
Speaker 1: Right in the latest uh uh. A lot of the
12:24
Speaker 1: podcasts are interviewing these dudes that are either the head
12:28
Speaker 1: of the companies from Open AI to Anthropic or the
12:32
Speaker 1: people who have left the companies that are in the
12:37
Speaker 1: race to develop superintelligence or AGI artificial general intelligence, and
12:44
Speaker 1: they're they're all about now trying to mitigate the risk
12:48
Speaker 1: or having us slow down, or like, hey, we gotta
12:50
Speaker 1: we got to make sure I mean, the cats are
12:53
Speaker 1: you know, out of the bag, the horses left the barn.
12:55
Speaker 1: But can we slow down and put in the safety
12:59
Speaker 1: and the transparency that is needed around that. And so
13:04
Speaker 1: when you hear a lot of these people talk about
13:06
Speaker 1: stuff that most of us don't know. I mean most
13:08
Speaker 1: of us we've heard of you know, llms, and we
13:11
Speaker 1: know about Chat GBT and how cool it is. We
13:13
Speaker 1: all consult Chat. It's smarter than we could ever be,
13:17
Speaker 1: and it knows and it's got the access and it's instantaneous.
13:21
Speaker 1: You know, I helped it. I actually well anyway, so
13:25
Speaker 1: we query Chat all the time. Yes, but most of
13:28
Speaker 1: us know that. But and a lot of us have
13:30
Speaker 1: heard that, Yeah, it's going to be displacing jobs and
13:33
Speaker 1: had already in some industries have displaced up to you know,
13:37
Speaker 1: thirty to forty percent of some jobs and some industries.
13:40
Speaker 1: And then it's like, wow, will any of us have
13:43
Speaker 1: a job. It's going to replace everything. And so there's
13:46
Speaker 1: the doomsday people saying, man, this thing's going to get
13:50
Speaker 1: out of control and we're all going extinct, and there's
13:52
Speaker 1: the people who are hopeful saying, man, we're going to
13:54
Speaker 1: be able to it's going to replace so much of
13:57
Speaker 1: the quote work for us. We'll be able to just
13:59
Speaker 1: choose what we want to do, be creative with our lives.
14:02
Speaker 1: And so there's the and who knows, we cannot see
14:06
Speaker 1: over the event horizon. So when I was thinking about this,
14:10
Speaker 1: and we have again good conversation with my boys, And
14:13
Speaker 1: depending on which podcasts you've listened to, or which you
14:15
Speaker 1: know real you've seen, or whatever it may, you may
14:21
Speaker 1: fall on the doomsday side the hopeless, or you may
14:25
Speaker 1: fall kind of on the hopeful side. But there was
14:28
Speaker 1: a documentary that I saw and it was AI was
14:33
Speaker 1: in the title, and that caught my name, my attention.
14:36
Speaker 1: But it was called or there was in the title,
14:39
Speaker 1: is Apocaloptimist? And I and the filmmaker, when the one
14:45
Speaker 1: of the guys that work for tech used that term,
14:48
Speaker 1: he said, I'm an apocaloptimist. He said, Man, I like
14:52
Speaker 1: that because this guy who's making the film, he's been
14:55
Speaker 1: interested in it for a while and he wanted to
14:56
Speaker 1: interview people on both sides, right if you will of that,
15:00
Speaker 1: you know, is it scary and doom or is it
15:04
Speaker 1: is it good news? And is it a little of both?
15:07
Speaker 1: And do we know? And but the guy said I'm
15:10
Speaker 1: choosing to be an Optimist, a big apockeal optimist. And
15:15
Speaker 1: he said he liked that because he and his wife
15:16
Speaker 1: are pregnant and they are to have their first kid
15:19
Speaker 1: and going to be growing up in this world and
15:22
Speaker 1: what's going on? And so I started thinking about belief
15:27
Speaker 1: versus hope. Okay, And so I wanted to get your
15:32
Speaker 1: thoughts on this, and maybe and you're looking at me like,
15:35
Speaker 1: what the heck where are we going? But I mean,
15:39
Speaker 1: because I thought this so applies to marriage and relationships
15:43
Speaker 1: and again life, long haul life. It just applies to everything.
15:47
Speaker 1: So what's interesting is a lot of And again, if
15:52
Speaker 1: you go into the religious or theology, you know, kind
15:55
Speaker 1: of context, you can think that you choose to believe
16:00
Speaker 1: something like why don't you believe? You know, we try
16:02
Speaker 1: to quote make believers. Are they a believer? Are you
16:04
Speaker 1: a believer? You know I believe? Do you believe in God?
16:09
Speaker 1: Do you believe the Bible is the inspired word of God? Like,
16:12
Speaker 1: we choose to believe something, but most of the time
16:16
Speaker 1: we were taught something, and we grew up in a
16:20
Speaker 1: home that taught us. And then at some point you
16:23
Speaker 1: either continue to believe the things that you were taught
16:26
Speaker 1: because your parents believed them, or you may think, well, no,
16:31
Speaker 1: I started developing my own beliefs and I critically thought
16:34
Speaker 1: for myself. And if you're a critical thinker, you want
16:36
Speaker 1: to you want to think for yourself. And then like,
16:39
Speaker 1: why do I believe? And so But many people would
16:42
Speaker 1: say if you think about it, and again, I think
16:45
Speaker 1: philosophers and psychologists and theologians, it's the deep questions do
16:51
Speaker 1: you truly choose your beliefs or do you just discover
16:55
Speaker 1: what you truly believe like deep down? And when I
16:58
Speaker 1: say deep down, I think many people are confronted with
17:03
Speaker 1: things that like, man, you know those questions and the
17:06
Speaker 1: doubts about things in life, Do I really believe that anymore?
17:11
Speaker 1: And don't just think again in the religious context, just
17:14
Speaker 1: think about everything that you've ever believed. Do you believe
17:19
Speaker 1: it because you've always believed it? Do you believe it
17:21
Speaker 1: because you were taught to believe it? And some would
17:25
Speaker 1: say I can't just force myself to believe something that
17:29
Speaker 1: I know deep down I just don't believe. And so
17:33
Speaker 1: that made me think a lot. Now, if you have
17:35
Speaker 1: evidence and things look good, they don't look believe if
17:39
Speaker 1: you think I have evidence or like things are proving
17:42
Speaker 1: out or my experience, it makes it a lot easier
17:45
Speaker 1: to believe something. But I think sometimes when I use
17:49
Speaker 1: the term discover what we believe, sometimes if you're starting
17:54
Speaker 1: to question something that you've always held dear, maybe you
17:58
Speaker 1: don't even want to be honest with yourself because of
18:01
Speaker 1: the social equity that it could cost or some some
18:05
Speaker 1: troubling thing deep down. That's like, man, it's going to
18:07
Speaker 1: cost me, Like the truth hurts, Like if I'm honest
18:10
Speaker 1: with myself, I don't even know if I want to
18:12
Speaker 1: believe what I feel like I'm truly believing. And so
18:16
Speaker 1: I was thinking about that. So there's belief, and I
18:20
Speaker 1: think you either believe something or you don't. And so
18:23
Speaker 1: I think a thought experiment is sometimes think what are
18:27
Speaker 1: some things you believe and do you truly believe them
18:32
Speaker 1: or do you just need to believe them? I need
18:35
Speaker 1: that to be true. And so then for me, I
18:38
Speaker 1: went beyond belief, like let's just say I believe, like, man,
18:42
Speaker 1: all the evidence is pointing that, Man, we're doomed with
18:45
Speaker 1: this AI stuff. It just doesn't look good. Well, then
18:49
Speaker 1: what about hope, Like how do you live in spite
18:53
Speaker 1: if you will of like something you believe that's not good.
18:59
Speaker 1: And so then I start thinking about, here's what I love. Hope.
19:03
Speaker 1: There's some volition there, like we have, we have a choice,
19:08
Speaker 1: And yes, hope deferred makes the heart sick. And many
19:11
Speaker 1: of us are hoping for something and maybe it hadn't
19:13
Speaker 1: come through, but we want to continue to hope. But
19:15
Speaker 1: I just started thinking about you can choose. Now. Look,
19:20
Speaker 1: if I believe something, it's easier to hope in it.
19:24
Speaker 1: That's kind of the easy part. But what if you
19:27
Speaker 1: believe that, maybe circumstances aren't great. But I'm going to
19:31
Speaker 1: choose to find meaning and I'm going to choose to
19:33
Speaker 1: find purpose, and I'm going to hope that living and
19:40
Speaker 1: not according to a false belief, but living in a
19:44
Speaker 1: way that is the best I can do under these circumstances.
19:48
Speaker 1: I'm still gonna be hopeful. And so that may I
19:52
Speaker 1: may have lost everybody. You may think, man, that makes
19:54
Speaker 1: no sense at all. But if you just think about
19:56
Speaker 1: the difference between believing whether something's great or not that great,
20:00
Speaker 1: can I still have hope? And what I'm seeing is
20:04
Speaker 1: you choose hope, just like we've said many times to
20:07
Speaker 1: point out you choose joy even though not everything in
20:10
Speaker 1: your life makes you want to just stand up and
20:13
Speaker 1: cheer and go raw rah si spoon bah, you know,
20:17
Speaker 1: but choosing a hopeful life. And I would submit, Man,
20:23
Speaker 1: this is what carrying your cross uphill like truly looks like.
20:29
Speaker 1: You daily take up your cross. We're all burdened. So
20:33
Speaker 1: what are you gonna do. Are you just gonna lay
20:34
Speaker 1: down and fold? Are you going to pick up your
20:37
Speaker 1: cross and carry it? And I'm gonna have hope? Yeah,
20:40
Speaker 1: And so that has been helpful for me because I
20:44
Speaker 1: can get caught caught in the apocalypse, the apocalyptic mindset.
20:48
Speaker 1: But I think I'm going to be by nature. I'm optimistic,
20:51
Speaker 1: you know that glasses have full, very positive thinker and
20:54
Speaker 1: all that. But then I started feeling like, man, Brian,
20:59
Speaker 1: it's like I almost want to blow the whistle and
21:02
Speaker 1: convince people that maybe things aren't as good as we think.
21:06
Speaker 1: And I'm going to be the one to uncover the thing.
21:08
Speaker 1: It's like, but if you're not careful, then you become
21:11
Speaker 1: cynical about things. You can be negative and it's like,
21:14
Speaker 1: what are you doing trying to talk me into depression?
21:16
Speaker 1: And I remember when I first heard Peter Rollins talking
21:19
Speaker 1: about he goes, No, I'm not trying to make you depressed.
21:22
Speaker 1: I'm trying to just show you you're already depressed and
21:24
Speaker 1: you just don't know it or you don't want to
21:25
Speaker 1: admit it. And so for me, it's like, yet, this
21:29
Speaker 1: is making sense. I can believe something that's maybe less
21:33
Speaker 1: than great news, but I have hope. And so what
21:38
Speaker 1: where does that hope come from? And then can you
21:42
Speaker 1: have hope if you believe something to the contrary? Like
21:45
Speaker 1: does that make sense to you?
21:46
Speaker 2: Yeah? It does make sense. And I think you just
21:49
Speaker 2: you nailed it just now when you said that you're
21:53
Speaker 2: you know, you've learned, but you're still learning how to
21:57
Speaker 2: carry both of those how to know you know, there's
22:01
Speaker 2: some not great things on the horizon, so you're holding that,
22:06
Speaker 2: but you you really can't live in that place unless
22:09
Speaker 2: you just really want to live in a dark hole.
22:14
Speaker 2: And and that's just what what you do is you
22:17
Speaker 2: read and study and listen to everything about that and
22:21
Speaker 2: don't ever really come up for air. You know, I
22:25
Speaker 2: remember you telling the kids when like it was during
22:28
Speaker 2: twenty twenty, when man, it did look like everything was
22:31
Speaker 2: going to hell in a basket and it.
22:33
Speaker 1: Just was just horrible for several years.
22:36
Speaker 2: Yeah, Like it was just it was just yucky, and
22:39
Speaker 2: you know the I think the kids could kind of
22:43
Speaker 2: get wrapped up in like the news and you know,
22:46
Speaker 2: it was just it was bad everything you read coming
22:48
Speaker 2: down the pike, you know, and the stories, and but
22:51
Speaker 2: I remember you saying, yes, that is all happening. That's
22:56
Speaker 2: you know, there's a lot of that, that's that is
22:58
Speaker 2: going on. But just going your front yard, like just
23:01
Speaker 2: walk outside and you know, just look up at the
23:05
Speaker 2: sky and put your feet in the grass and your yeah,
23:09
Speaker 2: be with your family, be with your neighbors. And it
23:12
Speaker 2: really is a perspective shift, like you truly, truly what
23:16
Speaker 2: you focus on grows and so if you want to
23:20
Speaker 2: continue to just live a life focused on that, you know,
23:26
Speaker 2: it's things are negative. Our world is horrible, you know,
23:32
Speaker 2: financially everything just stinks, or you know, the just politically
23:38
Speaker 2: blah blah blah. Like we can all agree like there's
23:42
Speaker 2: so much truth to all of that, but we have
23:45
Speaker 2: to get to a place where we're focusing on something
23:48
Speaker 2: that's there is so much good in our lives. But
23:53
Speaker 2: you do get to choose what you focus on. So
23:56
Speaker 2: it's not that because I would tend to. I'm more
23:59
Speaker 2: of like a put my head in the sand kind
24:01
Speaker 2: of person, you know, and you've helped me with that.
24:04
Speaker 2: So I'm aware of things in our world that aren't great.
24:09
Speaker 2: But there have been many times I think, in our
24:11
Speaker 2: marriage and in our lives that I think, well, I
24:14
Speaker 2: need to, like, I do want to know that there's stuff,
24:19
Speaker 2: you know, going on, but I also really kind of
24:23
Speaker 2: don't want to know too much of it because if
24:26
Speaker 2: I go down, and if you go down, who's going
24:30
Speaker 2: to lead our family? You know, who's going to help
24:33
Speaker 2: our community, who's gonna you know, like someone's got to
24:38
Speaker 2: be the you know, city on the hill. Someone's got
24:42
Speaker 2: to be the light and the salt. And so I
24:45
Speaker 2: think if you go too far down into just everything
24:50
Speaker 2: is just death and doom and you know, yuck, then
24:55
Speaker 2: you've lost your saltiness, you've lost that light. And so
24:59
Speaker 2: I just think like kind of being careful what you
25:03
Speaker 2: listen to, being careful what you watch, what you allow in,
25:08
Speaker 2: because I know for me it really can start to
25:12
Speaker 2: control I can start going to a deep dark place.
25:17
Speaker 2: And so I really think when you watch what you're
25:20
Speaker 2: what you're you know, what you pay attention to and
25:23
Speaker 2: then focus on Man, there's so much good in our lives,
25:29
Speaker 2: so many things to be goes back to gratitude, which
25:31
Speaker 2: we've talked a ton about in this podcast, because I
25:34
Speaker 2: think that's where you and I do find the most.
25:39
Speaker 2: That's that is where we experience our joy and where
25:42
Speaker 2: we find depth is when we can really focus on Man.
25:45
Speaker 2: There's so much good in our lives, so much good
25:49
Speaker 2: in the world, you know, But we have to choose
25:51
Speaker 2: what we focus on.
25:54
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I think you know so much if the
25:58
Speaker 1: bedrock of like your worldview comes from your faith, and
26:04
Speaker 1: I mean your faith in God. Like God's in control
26:08
Speaker 1: and so that's where you're gonna have hope. But then
26:12
Speaker 1: you see, like you believe in the sovereignty of God,
26:16
Speaker 1: but then you see, wow, but there's free will, and
26:19
Speaker 1: if men are screwing it up, you know, and I
26:23
Speaker 1: mean mankind, you know, well, then that kind of seems
26:26
Speaker 1: at odds with God's sovereignty he gave us. And then
26:28
Speaker 1: some people will say, well, that's like, you know, given
26:32
Speaker 1: men free will, that's kind of irresponsible God. It's like
26:35
Speaker 1: putting someone I heard say putting the razor blade in
26:37
Speaker 1: the hands of a two year old, and so we
26:41
Speaker 1: we I guess it's easy to be cynical or to
26:44
Speaker 1: feel foolish and about having hope in a world where
26:47
Speaker 1: it's like, man, everything all the evidence is pointing, and
26:50
Speaker 1: you don't want to feel duped or like a fool,
26:52
Speaker 1: and so do I want to have hope and I
26:54
Speaker 1: just think we struggle with that. And so then the
26:57
Speaker 1: question is how do you act in the world. So,
26:59
Speaker 1: if you believe something, and because we know in a relationship, man,
27:04
Speaker 1: in your marriage, your beliefs about your spouse, the story
27:07
Speaker 1: you're telling yourself, the narrative that you're basically ruminating on
27:11
Speaker 1: every single day, it's going to affect your behavior. Your
27:15
Speaker 1: beliefs drive everything in your relationship, and so can you
27:19
Speaker 1: believe that and not not, Oh, my spouse is great
27:23
Speaker 1: and fool your You can't fool yourself deep down right,
27:26
Speaker 1: It's like, but in the belief that, man, my spouse
27:30
Speaker 1: is a knucklehead right now, or they're not they're not trying,
27:33
Speaker 1: or they just don't feel like they're I just don't
27:35
Speaker 1: feel like they're living their best life, or the world's
27:39
Speaker 1: we're truly out of control. Man, and it's not getting
27:41
Speaker 1: any better? Do you just give up? And I think
27:45
Speaker 1: and you said gratitude. So if you live in fear
27:49
Speaker 1: that man, we're cooked, then and you start acting that way,
27:55
Speaker 1: it's easy to start thinking about all the things in
27:58
Speaker 1: your life, in the areas in your marriage, relationship with
28:01
Speaker 1: your kids, and parenting whatever, man were cooked, and it's
28:04
Speaker 1: easy just to wave with white flag and give up.
28:07
Speaker 1: And we're watching that, We're watching anxiety and depression at
28:10
Speaker 1: record rates. And so I guess my question would be,
28:15
Speaker 1: is then having hope? Is that a false hope? And again,
28:18
Speaker 1: hope deferred makes the heart sick. Great proverb, right, And
28:22
Speaker 1: so how do you live a hopeful life? And I
28:26
Speaker 1: think you said gratitude and we've mentioned it so many
28:29
Speaker 1: times on this podcast. When you start to think about
28:33
Speaker 1: the things you're grateful for, and it doesn't mean you're
28:36
Speaker 1: burying your head in the sand, it doesn't mean that
28:39
Speaker 1: you're just you know, ignorance is bliss. I think you
28:43
Speaker 1: just have to say, I'm going to choose to be
28:44
Speaker 1: grateful for the things in my life that I'm truly
28:48
Speaker 1: appreciative of. I mean, in my spouse, in my marriage,
28:51
Speaker 1: with my health, with my kids and thank God for
28:55
Speaker 1: those every single day, thank Him and just say man,
28:59
Speaker 1: thank you God, and live with gratitude around those things.
29:04
Speaker 1: And then how are you going to show up regardless
29:06
Speaker 1: of kind of these what you believe, because of what
29:09
Speaker 1: you've read or what you've seen, what you've heard, and
29:12
Speaker 1: even maybe how your spouse is showing up, like I'm
29:14
Speaker 1: going to show up with gratitude? And can that be
29:19
Speaker 1: effect Can that be effective? Can that be contagious? Can
29:22
Speaker 1: that rub off on someone? And can that affect your
29:25
Speaker 1: little space?
29:25
Speaker 2: I think something we've talked about, you know, several times
29:28
Speaker 2: on this podcast, even I can see that the older
29:34
Speaker 2: that you and I get, we realize we have a
29:37
Speaker 2: choice but to be able to live with the priorities
29:43
Speaker 2: that we want to live with. We want to live
29:46
Speaker 2: with a heart of gratitude. We want our mind to
29:48
Speaker 2: be set on something different than maybe a lot of
29:51
Speaker 2: people in the world's minds are set on. We don't
29:55
Speaker 2: want to live in, you know, a life of fear
29:58
Speaker 2: and anxiety. Okay, we've got to treat this like a
30:02
Speaker 2: full time job to keep our our minds, you know,
30:07
Speaker 2: in a good place, right to put ourselves in a
30:10
Speaker 2: position for God to be able to transform, transform our
30:14
Speaker 2: minds and our hearts through Christ Jesus. And so you
30:17
Speaker 2: and I talk about it a lot. The different things
30:19
Speaker 2: that we have employed that we put into practice every
30:23
Speaker 2: single day is that those are choices that we make
30:26
Speaker 2: about how we spend our time for our thoughts and
30:29
Speaker 2: our minds to be like take hold of those thoughts
30:32
Speaker 2: and to to transform those thoughts. So we've talked about
30:37
Speaker 2: that and another thing that we you know, I've worked
30:40
Speaker 2: a lot with women through Evergreen. And so the whole
30:45
Speaker 2: meaning behind Evergreen is the Jeremiah seventeen scripture that talks
30:51
Speaker 2: about like the difference in the two trees. So like
30:54
Speaker 2: one tree that trusts in Man, and he's like a
30:57
Speaker 2: tumbleweed in Lubbock, you know, blowing across the hot gross land,
31:02
Speaker 2: you know. Or the beautiful tree that's planted down by
31:07
Speaker 2: the water and its roots go down deep by the
31:10
Speaker 2: stream and drink deeply and it never fears in a
31:15
Speaker 2: year of drought. It's always bearing fruit. So my mind
31:19
Speaker 2: is focused so much on that tree. And so what
31:24
Speaker 2: does that look like when it says the person who
31:26
Speaker 2: trusts in God is that tree? Okay? Well, what does
31:29
Speaker 2: that mean?
31:30
Speaker 1: God?
31:30
Speaker 2: For me to trust in you, to put my hope
31:33
Speaker 2: in you, Like, I don't know, can I really feel you?
31:36
Speaker 2: Can I touch you? Are you here with me? Like?
31:39
Speaker 2: What are ways that I access his spirit? How do I?
31:45
Speaker 2: How am I in tune with that spirit that lives
31:48
Speaker 2: in me and in you? How do we how do
31:52
Speaker 2: we have access to that day in and day out?
31:55
Speaker 2: Because that's what changes everything. And so it's really just
32:00
Speaker 2: waking up and deciding I can choose. And I have
32:03
Speaker 2: those two trees in my mind, like that one that's
32:06
Speaker 2: just dead and gross and look, and then the other
32:09
Speaker 2: one that's just alive and full of fruit. Now that's
32:12
Speaker 2: not me saying we're never gonna struggle. I mean, shoot,
32:16
Speaker 2: if you think I'm saying that, really go read that
32:19
Speaker 2: thing I wrote on grief a couple of days ago
32:22
Speaker 2: that shows you, like you know, and my crazy brain
32:26
Speaker 2: that can be all over the place, that feels very
32:30
Speaker 2: deeply and very you know, heavily. So I definitely can
32:34
Speaker 2: feel and do feel all that stuff. But at some
32:37
Speaker 2: point you let that process through you, and all it
32:41
Speaker 2: does is just dig that deeper well that you can
32:45
Speaker 2: experience true joy and true peace, all the gifts of
32:49
Speaker 2: all the fruits of the Holy Spirit. So anyway, that's
32:54
Speaker 2: I think just pointing to the fact that you and
32:57
Speaker 2: I are not above anything, that we can go down
33:01
Speaker 2: with the best, that we're not just Pollyanna just Cheerio
33:05
Speaker 2: all the time, that we truly, truly every day wake
33:11
Speaker 2: up and say, man, I want to make that choice.
33:13
Speaker 2: I want to be light. I want to be full
33:16
Speaker 2: of joy, full of peace, and so all the things
33:19
Speaker 2: that we do that we build in, you know, during
33:22
Speaker 2: our day, to experience that, to have access to that.
33:28
Speaker 1: I think and I realized as we're you know, I
33:31
Speaker 1: just typed a prompt in as we're sitting here too,
33:35
Speaker 1: to chat to chat, and yeah, so I realize that
33:40
Speaker 1: even what we're saying, most of the time, you and I,
33:45
Speaker 1: most of us, we're distracted. We're we're just going about
33:48
Speaker 1: our business. Man, I don't have time to think about that.
33:50
Speaker 1: I got to get them go. I mean, if you're
33:52
Speaker 1: parenting small kids, I just think about chan and Ryan's,
33:56
Speaker 1: you know, Rue's first day of kindergarten and then they
33:59
Speaker 1: take her off, and then they've got two three year
34:02
Speaker 1: old twins at home, you know, and they've got you know,
34:07
Speaker 1: lunches to pack, backpacks, things to sign, and you know,
34:10
Speaker 1: meals to make and naps to be had and money
34:12
Speaker 1: to be made. They got jobs and so and many
34:17
Speaker 1: of us don't think deeply. But when you it's funny.
34:20
Speaker 1: I just did a quick prompt and he said, that's
34:22
Speaker 1: a profound question. I say, he and philosophers, psychologists and
34:27
Speaker 1: theologians have answered it differently for centuries. But listen to
34:31
Speaker 1: the distinction. Says, some beliefs don't feel chosen. Okay, So
34:35
Speaker 1: that's many people experience their deepest convictions as something they
34:39
Speaker 1: discover rather than decide. So be careful when we're trying
34:43
Speaker 1: to say, well, why don't you just believe it? Why
34:45
Speaker 1: don't you just believe it? Again? Trying to if you
34:47
Speaker 1: will proselytize or and again I don't just think religious context.
34:52
Speaker 1: I know that's what that evokes. Excuse me, But trying
34:57
Speaker 1: to convince something to believe something. Maybe we need them
35:00
Speaker 1: too because it makes us feel better about our deeply
35:03
Speaker 1: held questions about that or doubts about that. But it
35:06
Speaker 1: says you can choose what evidence to examine, what question
35:08
Speaker 1: to ask, and whether to be intellectually honest. But after
35:12
Speaker 1: that belief, it often feels like the conclusion that your
35:14
Speaker 1: mind reaches. You generally can't will yourself to sincerely believe
35:18
Speaker 1: something you think is false, So just put that in marriage,
35:22
Speaker 1: or about your spouse, or about yourself. But he says
35:26
Speaker 1: hope is partially different. Hope can arise naturally from those beliefs. Yeah,
35:31
Speaker 1: if you deeply believe things will ultimately work out, hope
35:34
Speaker 1: comes more easily. If you sincerely believe the future is bleak,
35:39
Speaker 1: hope is harder to sustain, right, But hope is more
35:43
Speaker 1: than a prediction about the future. And here's what I love.
35:47
Speaker 1: Psychologists often define hope not as believing everything will be okay,
35:52
Speaker 1: but as continuing to pursue meaningful goals despite uncertainty. That's
35:58
Speaker 1: the take in your cross uphill mm hmm, like I'm
36:01
Speaker 1: going to carry this and listen to this. In that sense,
36:05
Speaker 1: it's He says, hope has a volitional component. You can
36:08
Speaker 1: choose to act hopefully even when you don't feel hopeful. Okay,
36:13
Speaker 1: And some people say, why, oh, bless their heart. Does
36:16
Speaker 1: that make you seem like a fool? Does that make
36:18
Speaker 1: you seem like an idiot?
36:20
Speaker 2: Yes?
36:20
Speaker 1: Victor Frankel, who survived this is so cool, brought to
36:23
Speaker 1: us up. Victor Frankel, who survived Nazi concentration Camps, wrote
36:27
Speaker 1: extensively about people finding meaning and choosing their response even
36:32
Speaker 1: in circumstances that offered almost no reason for optimism, like
36:37
Speaker 1: you want to live that life, or the one who
36:39
Speaker 1: just says I'm done, We're cooked.
36:41
Speaker 2: I give up cause you're you really are tempted to say. Man,
36:45
Speaker 2: of course y'all can say that, like, look at your marriage, Well,
36:49
Speaker 2: can we go back if we could just play like
36:51
Speaker 2: a you know, rewind real whatever that's called, where you
36:56
Speaker 2: go back and watch things from the past, you know,
36:59
Speaker 2: things that we've been through in our marriage, the loss
37:02
Speaker 2: of our two year old son, the loss of you know,
37:05
Speaker 2: our parents, and you know, just different, Like I just
37:08
Speaker 2: think back to so many times that we have struggled greatly,
37:14
Speaker 2: there was always still that little bit of hope in there, like, yeah,
37:19
Speaker 2: this is horrible, this is about as bad as it gets.
37:23
Speaker 2: But man, I feel like we're not always going to
37:25
Speaker 2: be in this place. Yeah, So you do tend to think, oh, well, sure,
37:30
Speaker 2: some people you can say that must be nice, But
37:34
Speaker 2: some people listening to this podcast may not know some
37:38
Speaker 2: of our story, and it isn't all roses and rainbows.
37:42
Speaker 2: You know, so that's interesting about Victor Frinkel. Yeah, like
37:47
Speaker 2: to read something.
37:47
Speaker 1: It it's like once you and some people you may
37:50
Speaker 1: just think I believe because I choose to believe. But
37:52
Speaker 1: what I would submit is once you finally discover and
37:56
Speaker 1: are honest with yourself about what you truly believe about anything,
38:00
Speaker 1: any one, any relationship, there's something that happens after belief. Now,
38:07
Speaker 1: how are you going to live now that you've settled
38:10
Speaker 1: on you? You're agreeing with what your mind has agreed
38:15
Speaker 1: with as far as what you truly believe, He says,
38:18
Speaker 1: Imagine two people who both believe there's only a ten
38:21
Speaker 1: percent chance of success success in whatever you fill in
38:25
Speaker 1: the blank. One gives up because ten percent seems futile.
38:29
Speaker 1: The other says ten percent is enough to justify trying.
38:33
Speaker 1: Their beliefs about the facts are identical. Their response is different.
38:37
Speaker 2: Yes, And I just.
38:39
Speaker 1: Think finding hope and then acting as if there is
38:45
Speaker 1: a reason to hope and pursuing, meaning pursuing your highest
38:52
Speaker 1: values regardless of how hopeful or bleak something may look
38:57
Speaker 1: or may seem. And then what does that look like?
39:01
Speaker 1: And how would it look if you acted in hope,
39:04
Speaker 1: and I think again, gratitude has to be a key
39:07
Speaker 1: part of that, and we've challenged people just try it.
39:10
Speaker 1: Wake up in the morning, make your gratitude list and
39:14
Speaker 1: then repeat it, say it out loud. Make that part
39:18
Speaker 1: of your mindfulness, you know, paying attention. You were saying.
39:21
Speaker 1: I love what you said earlier is something about I
39:24
Speaker 1: saw a post you did about when your vision board
39:28
Speaker 1: becomes part of.
39:29
Speaker 2: Your Oh yeah, camera roll. Yeah, that's really good.
39:33
Speaker 1: There's our friend that cardinal always pops up here.
39:37
Speaker 2: Wow. One thing, and I know we're kind of winding down,
39:40
Speaker 2: but one thing about marriage I thought of. You know,
39:42
Speaker 2: so a couple of days ago, you and I kind
39:44
Speaker 2: of gotten a not really an argument, but we just
39:49
Speaker 2: were a little bit sideways on, you know, on something.
39:53
Speaker 2: This was which time, This was on Sunday, and so yeah,
39:58
Speaker 2: we just you know, I just I got perturbed and
40:02
Speaker 2: my feelings were hurt, and so I kind of like
40:05
Speaker 2: just you know, said a comment and you were like, hey,
40:07
Speaker 2: let's are you Are you kind of upset? And sometimes
40:10
Speaker 2: I would have said, no, I'm good.
40:12
Speaker 1: You said a comment that I had made, and then
40:14
Speaker 1: you made it back to me in a different context,
40:17
Speaker 1: which made me know, it was snarky and kind of sarcastic,
40:20
Speaker 1: and I went, whoa, and I knew you're upset. I
40:22
Speaker 1: could your body language, and I knew It's like, bottom
40:27
Speaker 1: line is I had been selfish. I had chosen to
40:30
Speaker 1: be selfish, but I had so rationalized it. Yeah, you know,
40:33
Speaker 1: I was making excuses for why this selfishness was, you know, uh.
40:38
Speaker 2: Like what it was okay for it was okay.
40:39
Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, and then I at the end of the day,
40:41
Speaker 1: I just said said, man, you know what, regardless I
40:44
Speaker 1: was being, it was it was selfish. Yeah, my self.
40:47
Speaker 2: Yeah, I was just going to say about that. Like
40:50
Speaker 2: I sat with it for a little bit, and I noticed, like, okay,
40:55
Speaker 2: I could go down two roads here. You know, so
40:57
Speaker 2: if you picture the trees, like the dead tree that
41:01
Speaker 2: trusts in man and starts telling the story to themselves,
41:04
Speaker 2: or the one who trusts in the Lord and just
41:07
Speaker 2: tries to choose the higher road and higher thoughts. And
41:11
Speaker 2: so as I sat with it, I thought I could say,
41:14
Speaker 2: in this moment, man, that's just wrong. You know. I
41:18
Speaker 2: feel like Brian always has to have his way. I
41:20
Speaker 2: feel like, you know, I'm it's always you know, I'm
41:25
Speaker 2: the one I'm just made to feel like it's my
41:28
Speaker 2: fault or you know whatever. I could like this, this
41:31
Speaker 2: just isn't right, this isn't fair, and why is blah
41:34
Speaker 2: blah blah blah blah. Like I could have gone down
41:37
Speaker 2: that road and I could have just nursed that and
41:41
Speaker 2: just been working on a really good mad and just
41:44
Speaker 2: started to create this bigger story of you know, like
41:48
Speaker 2: just the version of that. Or I could have stopped
41:52
Speaker 2: in that moment and taken those thoughts captive and thought, Nope,
41:56
Speaker 2: I am not going down that road where that tree's going.
41:59
Speaker 2: I'm gonna chee use the road that says, you know what,
42:02
Speaker 2: I believe Brian wants the best for me and for us.
42:07
Speaker 2: I believe that Brian loves me. I believe that he's
42:11
Speaker 2: feeling some kind of pressure in some way, and this
42:15
Speaker 2: is how it comes out. It's not I don't. I
42:18
Speaker 2: want to remove like the emotion or how personal I
42:23
Speaker 2: could be taking this, and I just want to say
42:28
Speaker 2: I want to believe the best in him and believe
42:30
Speaker 2: that this was just you know, I mean, he was
42:34
Speaker 2: struggling in that moment or whatever, and that doesn't mean
42:38
Speaker 2: that I don't I'm not going to stand up, and
42:40
Speaker 2: I'm not going to use my voice and I'm not
42:42
Speaker 2: going to tell you when something's not okay. That's not
42:45
Speaker 2: at all what I'm saying, because I did actually do that.
42:48
Speaker 2: We sat down and I felt like, in a very
42:51
Speaker 2: strong way, I told you how it was making me
42:54
Speaker 2: feel way. All right, So so girls, listen to this.
42:59
Speaker 2: Don't think that I'm like, no, just.
43:02
Speaker 1: Shove it down, and you guess you actually have learned
43:06
Speaker 1: not to bury it, because that was what was hurting you,
43:08
Speaker 1: hurting us, making you you know.
43:11
Speaker 2: But I think in that moment that helped to capture
43:15
Speaker 2: those thoughts. I mean, I could have very well gone
43:18
Speaker 2: down that other path where I created some big version
43:22
Speaker 2: of the story that you always blah blah blah and
43:25
Speaker 2: you never blah blah blah blah blah, and and in
43:28
Speaker 2: some way, okay, people maybe could have agreed with me
43:31
Speaker 2: and go, yeah, that's probably kind of true. But why
43:35
Speaker 2: would I want to go down that road? Like if
43:38
Speaker 2: I can have the four you know, just that thought
43:41
Speaker 2: of I have a choice, there's a fork in the
43:44
Speaker 2: road here. I'm gonna choose this higher road and believe
43:48
Speaker 2: that you want the best for us, and not go
43:52
Speaker 2: down that rabbit trail, it just it. If you can
43:56
Speaker 2: divorce better for me.
43:58
Speaker 1: If you can divorce the story you tell yourselves during
44:02
Speaker 1: a strong emotion. Yeah, I've heard somebody talk about, you know,
44:06
Speaker 1: in the context of free will, if you can think
44:09
Speaker 1: about when you get angry, you've got a narrative going on,
44:13
Speaker 1: somebody cuts you off in traffic. You know, you've got
44:15
Speaker 1: this story you're telling yourself. And if you can take
44:18
Speaker 1: the emotion of anger and the way what you're truly
44:21
Speaker 1: feeling in your body and detach it from the story
44:29
Speaker 1: and literally you're not telling yourself any story. You're just
44:32
Speaker 1: and you just pay attention to how you feel. Within
44:34
Speaker 1: thirty seconds, you could be laughing, almost feeling like how ridiculous,
44:39
Speaker 1: Like what is this? And so you told yourself a
44:42
Speaker 1: different story. You said something that benevolence you were giving
44:47
Speaker 1: me in that What were the statements you made about
44:52
Speaker 1: me that was benevolent.
44:54
Speaker 2: I believe that you believe the best in me, that
44:57
Speaker 2: you want the best for our relationship. That you know,
45:00
Speaker 2: you were probably just struggling with your own You had
45:03
Speaker 2: your own battle going on in front of you, and
45:05
Speaker 2: that's how it came out towards me.
45:06
Speaker 1: And so so many times. So John Gottman GOTTM. A. N.
45:12
Speaker 1: We've mentioned him several times and people ask for the
45:14
Speaker 1: resources we mentioned. One of his books is The Relationship Cure,
45:18
Speaker 1: where I first heard him mentioned positive Sentiment Override, and
45:23
Speaker 1: the other one is The Seven Principles for Making Your
45:25
Speaker 1: Marriage Work. He mentions it again, the positive sentiment override,
45:30
Speaker 1: which basically covers over a multitude of sins in your marriage.
45:34
Speaker 1: When you have a positive sentiment override, you know your
45:38
Speaker 1: spouse does not mean you harm, like I believe the
45:42
Speaker 1: best about them. You give this kind of good will.
45:44
Speaker 1: So there was this benevolent attitude towards me, and that changed.
45:48
Speaker 1: The other thing you said that changed to you. I
45:51
Speaker 1: was going to finish that sentence is if you know,
45:56
Speaker 1: like Brian has his own stuff going on, that was
45:58
Speaker 1: about him. You said something, don't take it personal. I've
46:02
Speaker 1: always said, if so, if Brian's missing the mark, the
46:05
Speaker 1: Greek term for sin is an archery term to mean
46:08
Speaker 1: it means to miss the mark. You've heard us say
46:11
Speaker 1: that you may know that. So if Brian's missing the mark,
46:16
Speaker 1: can you depersonalize his sin and know that's about him?
46:20
Speaker 1: It doesn't so most of first going what does that
46:23
Speaker 1: mean for me? What does that say about me? What
46:25
Speaker 1: does that you know mean for my experience? We personalize
46:29
Speaker 1: it and we get hurt and we get resentful. But
46:31
Speaker 1: if you can depersonalize it and say that's about Brian,
46:35
Speaker 1: and you went a step further and said, man, he's
46:39
Speaker 1: got stuff going on. So if he's missing the mark, like,
46:42
Speaker 1: how can I pray for him? How can I help him?
46:45
Speaker 1: You know, how can I not personalize this so that
46:47
Speaker 1: I can this means nothing about my identity right now?
46:51
Speaker 1: That is next level consciousness stuff. I mean, I think
46:55
Speaker 1: that's where a relationship can truly truly grow. So and
47:00
Speaker 1: it's so tricky, I know, it's a fine line. Well,
47:03
Speaker 1: what you do, your sin affects me? Yeah, the sin
47:05
Speaker 1: of a husband can affect a wife. The sin of
47:07
Speaker 1: a father can affect his kids and his entire family.
47:12
Speaker 1: The sins of the mother right can affect the family.
47:17
Speaker 1: But when you don't see it as a personal attack
47:21
Speaker 1: or a personal affront, and yes, it affects you, but
47:26
Speaker 1: can you say the same is true for me? God
47:30
Speaker 1: is my author and the definer of my faith and
47:34
Speaker 1: who I am in my identity and so when this
47:37
Speaker 1: person's acting the fool. Can I stay in my identity?
47:41
Speaker 1: I mean that is literally the trick to every relationship,
47:44
Speaker 1: and I think in every interaction when you have with
47:46
Speaker 1: other human beings, can you stay in the evolved place
47:50
Speaker 1: that you are, knowing that you're still nothing's changed in
47:53
Speaker 1: your world. You just got new information based on what
47:56
Speaker 1: your spouse just did to show up, or or the
47:59
Speaker 1: latest revelation or the latest confession or the latest bad
48:04
Speaker 1: behavior whatever. But can you stay in the place where
48:08
Speaker 1: you're not just wrecked because you know, wreck people wreck people, right,
48:13
Speaker 1: and and so that is that's man. It's hard. Yeah,
48:17
Speaker 1: but I appreciate you giving me that benevolence. And yeah,
48:23
Speaker 1: when you then confronted me with it instead of accusation, interrogation,
48:30
Speaker 1: instead of like finger in my you, you you because
48:35
Speaker 1: of if you were personalizing it, it'd be all about
48:38
Speaker 1: how bad I hurt you and you really, I don't
48:40
Speaker 1: want to forgive you because you hurt me.
48:41
Speaker 2: You.
48:42
Speaker 1: I want you to pay. I want you to feel.
48:45
Speaker 1: You know, we're watching Kate Fear. You know, we just
48:47
Speaker 1: that guy, you know, old Max. Katie wanted everyone to
48:50
Speaker 1: feel what it was like to be you know, to
48:53
Speaker 1: feel the pain he had felt, and that's what we do. Yeah,
48:57
Speaker 1: and so you were able to give me the time
49:02
Speaker 1: and the space to say, hey, you're malfunctioning and you
49:08
Speaker 1: were missing the mark, and here's how it affected me.
49:11
Speaker 1: But I think your demeanor got me to a place
49:14
Speaker 1: a lot quicker of confession and said, dang it, man,
49:19
Speaker 1: you're right, I was selfish. I was being selfish and
49:22
Speaker 1: that may not have come had you put me on
49:25
Speaker 1: the defensive, because then you know, hey, I want to
49:28
Speaker 1: defend and excuse and rationalize and all the things we do.
49:34
Speaker 2: Good stuff today, Yeah you think, Yeah, well we're back, folks.
49:39
Speaker 1: You ready missed it. Yeah, there was something else I
49:43
Speaker 1: wanted to dive into, but you know what I'm looking. Yeah,
49:46
Speaker 1: we're fifty minutes, so y'all got a little longer episode today.
49:50
Speaker 1: But we're gonna there's some stuff that I'm seeing in
49:54
Speaker 1: a lot of the marriages that we're seeing right now,
49:57
Speaker 1: kind of a common theme that we're gonna touch on
50:00
Speaker 1: next time.
50:01
Speaker 2: Sounds good, Yeah, and one thing we started with, but
50:05
Speaker 2: we'll have to hold this for next time. But you
50:08
Speaker 2: were asking if it's been a while since we've done
50:11
Speaker 2: the podcast, but we said, it was kind of like
50:13
Speaker 2: riding a byeicckle.
50:19
Speaker 1: Oh no, okay, So do you think I'm gonna like
50:26
Speaker 1: cue the music. You're laughing and I'm gonna But that's SmartLess.
50:31
Speaker 1: It does the byes. We have a different sign off.
50:35
Speaker 1: Oh so okay, it was it was later, remember that later,
50:42
Speaker 1: But we're gonna get We're gonna get a new one
50:44
Speaker 1: for this new season.
50:45
Speaker 2: Oh my goodness.
50:46
Speaker 1: So yeah, thanks for getting the bye. That was My
50:50
Speaker 1: reaction was like that. It was like Will Arnett to
50:53
Speaker 1: Sean Hayes, he's bye, been.
50:56
Speaker 2: So long since we've done it.
50:58
Speaker 1: If you don't know SmartLess, they all always come up
51:00
Speaker 1: with some stupid word to say.
51:02
Speaker 2: Bye bye goodness.
51:05
Speaker 1: So yeah, so let's and we've done bye, We've done later.
51:09
Speaker 1: I know.
51:10
Speaker 2: Let's we'll think of another one.
51:11
Speaker 1: No, no, no, let's think of another one right now, and
51:13
Speaker 1: then we'll do it. What's going to be the catchphrase
51:17
Speaker 1: to sign off? It'll be what until next time? Or
51:26
Speaker 1: we're out of time? He is just something with the
51:30
Speaker 1: word time. See ya, okay, see ya, Okay, let's do that.
51:36
Speaker 1: What's that artist that never shows her face in their name?
51:45
Speaker 2: Is that too easy? Yeah? That's too easy, but let's
51:47
Speaker 2: just use it for this time. That's fine. Her name
51:49
Speaker 2: is see Ya. Do you know