Latest / The Dr. Psych Mom Show with clinical psychologist Dr. Samantha Rodman Whiten / Avoidant Husbands

Transcript

Avoidant Husbands · The Dr. Psych Mom Show with clinical psychologist Dr. Samantha Rodman Whiten

• 0:05
  Hi everybody, and welcome to the dr.
• 0:07
  Psych mom show. Today, we're going to be talking
• 0:09
  about a void. And husbands, this is much more
• 0:12
  common than avoidant wives, which is why I made an avoidant
• 0:14
  wives podcast first, because the majority of my blog and most
• 0:21
  psychologists stuff deals with the situation that's more.
• 0:24
  Common of when the male is, the more avoidant attachment
• 0:27
  partner. But I got a request and I am
• 0:30
  nothing if not helpful. So I will just discuss avoid and
• 0:33
  husbands in this podcast. Cast, as soon as I talk to you
• 0:36
  about subscribing, the most recent ones are female sexual
• 0:39
  arousal, and female sexual dysfunction.
• 0:41
  So two sides of that coin are all the all that info is just
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  waiting for you to click on subscribe and then you get that
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  as well as over 70 other subscriber only podcasts, which
• 0:53
  will illuminate the dark corners of the female.
• 0:57
  And male psyche is for you for the low low price of.
• 1:01
  I forget what it is 599 a month, which is Like, 1% of what it
• 1:06
  would be, like to work with me. So you should really get on
• 1:10
  that. Particularly, if you can't die
• 1:15
  work with me, right? I mean, like, not everybody
• 1:16
  could be my client. So, at least you can get access
• 1:19
  to all the stuff that I have. All right?
• 1:21
  Anyhow, and also join my Facebook group, because that's
• 1:24
  where a lot of people. Interact, I interact in there so
• 1:27
  that can be very useful as well. That's a private subscriber.
• 1:30
  Only Facebook group that is separate from the podcast.
• 1:34
  If you go Oh, into the Facebook group.
• 1:35
  You do not get the podcast for free.
• 1:37
  I cannot link Spotify and Facebook nor would I want to
• 1:40
  because those are two separate things, you know.
• 1:44
  So you could choose one or both or people who do both get a lot
• 1:47
  of information. Anyway, so what's an avoidant
• 1:50
  husband? Well, I mean like literally
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  every book in the self-help aisle at Barnes & Nobles, if
• 1:55
  there is even still Barnes and Nobles or self-help aisle or
• 1:58
  anything that is an Amazon is about emotionally unavailable
• 2:01
  men. Why is avoidant attachment?
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  Which You should go back and refer to my attachment Styles
• 2:07
  podcast to know how to avoid an attachment start.
• 2:10
  And then there's the avoided wives podcast, which can help
• 2:12
  you see how this manifests in women, but in men, it's the
• 2:16
  emotionally unavailable guy. It's mr.
• 2:19
  Independent mr. Perfect from my mr.
• 2:21
  Perfect. And his crazy wife podcast.
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  The pathologically independent guy that needs Nobody for
• 2:27
  anything, and just keeps on chugging along, doesn't
• 2:30
  understand why his wife is acting all crazy.
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  You know, wanted to talk about feelings all the time.
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  What's that drama about why she always making problems?
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  And this guy thinks about relationships is smothering and
• 2:42
  difficult, and why? Because he grew up in a home
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  where relationships were smothering and difficult and or,
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  you know, so either he saw, I mean, it's usually both so
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  likely he saw one parent, be avoidant in the relationship,
• 2:57
  the distance, or the one who always kind of wants to get away
• 3:01
  from the other partner and also Our men like this created, I go
• 3:06
  into depth with on the attachment style podcast, but if
• 3:09
  you're always told to go play and go be independent.
• 3:13
  Well, you listen, you know, I mean, if you're in a home where
• 3:16
  emotions and comfort and closeness are not prioritized,
• 3:19
  and rather, the emphasis on Independence, go play, go do
• 3:23
  your own thing, will you listen? I mean, you know like you learn
• 3:27
  the culture of your home and then later on subconsciously,
• 3:30
  that is the only way that you know, how to act so people who
• 3:34
  haven't Avoidant, attachment style, really do not like
• 3:38
  closeness. They find it to be frightening
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  and irritating, and it and intrusive.
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  So it's too much. It always feels like the partner
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  and they pick preoccupied attachment Partners.
• 3:50
  So, so, it's true. Because confirmation bias.
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  If you think relationships are going to be real smothering,
• 3:55
  then you find somebody who's going to be smothering, like
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  that's just what makes sense to you in the world.
• 3:59
  That's what's familiar. That's what makes you think of
• 4:02
  the relationship. You saw growing up and if If you
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  deny that people are subconscious Lee drawn to what
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  they grew up with. I mean, think about your own
• 4:10
  kids, like if every day you told your kid, go play.
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  Go, go do your own thing, go be independent.
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  Most important things to be independent, you know, in your
• 4:19
  words, your actions, your implicit and explicit
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  directives. Would you not think that would
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  impact them? I mean, how not right?
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  So, then why would you say that it wouldn't impact you?
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  I mean, it does the way that animals are trained makes a
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  difference. This is should be By this by
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  this point and this podcast should be a given that childhood
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  impacts adulthood. You know, can be moderated by
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  self-reflection therapy healing relationships, which I'll get to
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  but yes, of course, the way you're raised impact, how you
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  think about the world as an adult like no shit and I mean it
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  it can be a big aha moment for people particularly avoid and
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  people who are trained to think otherwise I am my own man.
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  Everything I do is a choice. I am a rational actor.
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  Really have a Kids are they rational actors, you know, I
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  mean, if they observed a lot of marital conflict, do you think
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  they wouldn't just go replicate it?
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  Of course, they would, you know? So then, like, wouldn't you?
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  So, anyway, that says, like an aside but sometimes people are
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  still like, yeah. I really understand what you're
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  saying, but that doesn't apply to me because I personally have
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  zero linkages between what I saw growing up and who I chose to be
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  as a man and it's like, man, you know how much your money were
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  going to be wasting and therapy proving that shit to you?
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  Like let's just fast forward six months until You're like oh wow.
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  You mean like if you abuse a kid and impacts them as an adult,
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  okay? So it doesn't have to be
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  abusive. It can just be like the culture
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  of my home that impact me as an adult.
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  Oh like yes, no kidding. All right, let's move on and see
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  how, and how to get out of those patterns that I was trained in.
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  So assiduously albeit subconsciously, and
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  unintentionally by my parents, okay?
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  So you like, think about that. If you rail against this idea of
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  there being any continuity between your childhood and your
• 6:04
  adulthood Think about how much you disagree, like, if I were to
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  say, yeah, you know, if your wife's Max, your kid is gonna
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  have no impact on them. You feel like what you're
• 6:14
  talking about. She's not gonna smack my kid.
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  She smacks my kid, then he's gonna grow up and like into some
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  kind of relationship with some woman that treats him like shit.
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  I'll be like, oh, whoa, well no shit of course.
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  I agree bought our what I'm saying is that also happened to
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  you. Not the exact thing you hear.
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  Not the exact thing, not the smacking pop.
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  Probably but another thing like a mother that always turns away
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  and says, go play go play. I'm busy, I'm busy.
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  So what are you going to learn? Don't go to people for comfort
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  then what are you gonna do? You're going to get into a
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  relationship? That's not comfortable.
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  It may be a woman. That's totally different than
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  your mom did. Oh, maybe a woman, that's always
• 6:53
  up your ass to hang out and stuff, but either way, it's not
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  comfortable, not safe, not a place where I can rely on
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  someone. So anyway, so the avoidant
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  attachment man, The guy who values Hobbies.
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  He values his friends, he values work, really values work, he
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  values. Anything that makes him feel
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  independent and liberated and unconstrained by the demand of
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  another person. You can see how this would not
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  appeal to securely attached to women who want more
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  interdependence and it would not appeal to other avoidant
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  attachment women. Because then there's like,
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  nobody is the one who kind of starts the relationship because
• 7:31
  they just both. Don't give a shit, you know.
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  So who is left? Left the preoccupied, attachment
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  woman, the pursuer, the one who finally gets this guy to open up
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  settle down, be closed, Etc, but she does it every day is an
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  uphill battle and the only sort of woman that's going to get
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  involved in that as a woman who deals with her own insecurity
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  issues, who herself was raised to think that relationships are
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  not good and trustworthy and Firming and reassuring.
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  But someplace where you're always begging for somebody to
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  love you. So that's how these
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  relationships, go the Men follows the man around
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  basically, without saying these words, sometimes with saying
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  these words say love me, love me.
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  Pay attention to me. Pay attention to me and the more
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  that she does that the more the man pulls away because I gotta
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  go to work, I don't know what this shit is, you know, calm
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  down, you're acting crazy. We're fine, everything's good.
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  I gotta go, I gotta go, I gotta go.
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  And that's like, really, the Hallmark of the relationship is
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  he's always saying he's got to go either physically or
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  emotionally. I've got to go to work.
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  I got to go do this. I have this commitment, I have
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  this commitment, you know, it's good for us to spend And time
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  apart, etcetera, etc, etc. And that's not saying that, it's
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  not that people don't have to go to work.
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  Of course, they do. Of course, they can hang out
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  with friends and pursue Hobbies, but it's the tone that the
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  emotionally avoided man says this in that makes the woman so
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  upset. It's not oh sweetheart, I got to
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  go now, but I'm going to miss you.
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  I love you. I'll see you soon.
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  And if you really needed me to stay ever, I would even just
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  that when I help couples to say something like that and couples
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  counseling, like the woman like never asked, To do it, unless
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  she's like about to die. You know.
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  Like, like I'll see you two men like and mental be like, no, you
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  don't understand. If I told my wife that if she
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  really needed me, I would be there.
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  Then she would never let me out of her sight.
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  Never let me out of the house and I would lose my job.
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  I'm like you crazy. Like, literally like, think
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  about what you're saying. You got small kids, you think
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  she wants you to be unemployed. What are you really saying?
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  Where is it coming from? Where is this fear coming from
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  that? If you give over trust to
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  anybody, they are going to exploit you and they don't have
• 9:34
  your best. Interests at heart, and they're
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  going to make terrible decisions.
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  It doesn't take a genius to figure out that, that those
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  patterns would be established early in life.
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  So, in this case, the guy was disappointed early on by
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  caregivers, an attachment figures in an emotional way.
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  And now he thinks that if he gives his wife Anne in, she's
• 9:52
  gonna like use it and like exploit him.
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  Whereas the guys that actually can bring themselves to say,
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  Okay, I want a different kind of relationship.
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  Looks like my wife's honestly, so upset all the time.
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  She's going to leave me. I've gotten to the place that
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  I'll try this crazy. Couples counseling.
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  What are you telling me to say? All right, fine, I do mean it.
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  If you would if you really ever did need me, I would be there if
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  you really needed me and if you say really need you I will come
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  home. The guys who say that the woman
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  is like it's like a game changer, you know, because she's
• 10:21
  like really you would really you would or you're saying that
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  because she told you to and the ones that are saying it because
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  they had a different way that they thought about it that
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  they're really willing to try different way of interacting,
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  they thought about it. They're like well shit.
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  I mean it's my wife. Wife, I probably would have done
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  that. Anyway, you know, come home.
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  If she really needed me to all I'm doing is verbalizing it.
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  So maybe I'll take a risk and verbalize it.
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  So they say, yeah, I would if you really needed me, I would
• 10:46
  come home from work. That can be transformational in
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  an insecurely attached relationship of the type that
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  I'm describing because the woman finally gets to feel important
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  like that, she would be a priority if she really needed
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  him. And this is what the preoccupied
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  attachment partner. The wife is wanting all the time
• 11:03
  from the avoiding God just this Roof this validation that she's
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  important in some way because she never felt like that as a
• 11:08
  kid growing up. And so she is too clingy and he
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  is to pathologically Independent, but when they both
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  learn to be more in the middle, then this kind of couple can
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  really improve and grow and develop this more mature, adult
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  kind of relationship versus two children just trying to like
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  grab, you know, like like they're old lately, get
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  something from the other one, you know, with the preoccupied.
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  Attachment wife trying to grab like closeness and security at
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  all costs. And the guy trying to push away
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  and grab its independence at all costs.
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  So that's this is a really common common, common type of
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  interaction and males are more avoidant than females because
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  of, you know, the gender roles, you know, men are supposed to
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  quote unquote, be more independent and so mothers will
• 11:59
  in fact, say, go play. Go Do Your Own Thing.
• 12:02
  More, two little boys and two little girls.
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  And so you end up having it's not good or anything but like
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  that's what happens. And so that goes along with a
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  natural tendency that, boys have to be more sensation seeking and
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  to explore more and to do more things that the parent often
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  feels like they can't control. They have higher rates of ADHD
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  things like that. So at that point sometimes the
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  parent throws up their hands, you know.
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  Usually these parents are uncomfortable with emotional
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  closeness but also the natural temperament of a boy if he's
• 12:34
  this. Like wild sensation-seeking kid,
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  they're going to be like, oh shit, I can't control him for
• 12:38
  shit. I mean I guess he just has to go
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  do his own thing and so that makes the boy then feel like
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  yeah like don't constrain me, you know and they don't learn
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  really how to interact lovingly and interdependently with
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  another person. So there's a lot of issues, both
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  parental issues and environmental issues and
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  temperamental issues, that lead to a boy boys.
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  In general males in general having more avoidant attachment
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  Which these things again, include both the upbringing and
• 13:08
  I go into that more in the attachment Styles podcast.
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  But also a natural temperament where it's like kind of nobody
• 13:13
  can rain the person in so that you from a very young age so
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  they just kind of get to do what they want and then they get into
• 13:19
  that, you know, they're like haha I'm free, you know like II,
• 13:24
  nobody can hold me back and then when a woman tries to they get
• 13:28
  very angry, you know? And this is particularly true
• 13:31
  with in the later stages of monogamy, while in the
• 13:33
  honeymoon. Stage and avoided man can be
• 13:36
  more romantic and I have that in a post the emotionally avoidant
• 13:39
  partner after the honeymoon stage, where did mr.
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  Romantic? Go, you know, so it's very
• 13:44
  equivalent to how women will stop having sex as much after
• 13:47
  the honeymoon stage while, avoid and partners egg, they're gonna
• 13:50
  stop being romantic and close. So the same guy that wanted when
• 13:54
  his hormones, new relationship energy is pumping wanted to be
• 13:58
  close. Well, when he goes back to his
• 14:00
  natural attachment style later after the honeymoon stage, he
• 14:02
  don't want to be close to you. Want to go play golf.
• 14:05
  You know, and he doesn't want you to say shit about it because
• 14:07
  he worked all week, goddamn it. And so etcetera, Etc.
• 14:10
  So this is a type of couple. That is the most ubiquitous one
• 14:14
  and couples counseling, the woman as the pursuer and the
• 14:17
  male is the distance sir. And if this resonates with you
• 14:21
  couples counselor can really help and but just listen to what
• 14:24
  I'm saying. When I did my little tangent it
• 14:27
  wasn't really a tangent if you are somebody that does not see
• 14:31
  continuity between your early life experiences and your later.
• 14:34
  Experiences within your intimate relationship work on that first
• 14:38
  save yourself. See, save yourself.
• 14:40
  Save your time and money. Because if any couples counselor
• 14:43
  worth their salt is going to go into the origin of how you
• 14:46
  became how you are. You know, if you're just talking
• 14:49
  about oh let's learn some, I statements, man, like, you know,
• 14:52
  how many people I see that learned there, I statements and
• 14:55
  still need to come in for a couples counseling to somebody
• 14:57
  who goes a little deeper, all, literally all at this stage of
• 15:01
  my career almost, every couple that I work.
• 15:04
  It has seen multiple couples counselors where they skated
• 15:08
  along surface and then they need to do something deeper, so you
• 15:11
  need to know that there's an impact of how you and your
• 15:15
  partner were raised and be willing to discuss that in order
• 15:18
  to make a couples counseling, actually useful and productive.
• 15:21
  So, that's just my PSA for anybody listening.
• 15:24
  All right, hopefully this was useful.
• 15:26
  Hopefully, this gave a overview of what an avoidant attachment
• 15:29
  man. Looks like also go to the
• 15:31
  avoidant wives one, if that's more relevant and also the
• 15:34
  Stiles podcast. Okay?
• 15:36
  And a follow me on Tick Tock. I am so trendy talk to you all
• 15:40
  soon.