Latest / Project StrengthCast / Founder of Siege Fitness talks about the Indian fitness space | Ep.6
Transcript
- jay: Hello everyone, welcome to episode six of Project Strength Gast. And the thing is, today we are joined as usual by Kaushul and Tapas, and myself is Jay. It looks like I'm in heaven, but it's just poor lighting, right? But today, our special guest is gonna be Pranav, the founder of Siege Fitness, right? The guy's taken out like taken us to the next level in terms of production quality, helped us with a lot of things. And I think it's kind of important to kind of paint a larger narrative of the fitness space, right? We wanna kinda some point or the other get into kind of improving the entire quality of the environment, right? Like all aspects of it. So we wanna have all players from the space of fitness involved in our conversations. And I think like a lot of the kind of fundamental understandings and principles that we share are shared by Pranad when it comes to his own company that is Siege Fitness, right? So, like I've known Pranav for like a while, right? And honestly, like when we were setting up like my gym in the first place, like Pranav was one of the guys who had one of the most strongest inputs in terms Tapas: Thanks. jay: of equipment, like in terms of how we want to kind of go about things. So the things, the main topics we want to kind of discuss on today, right? Like what actually inspired Pranav to kind of like get into Siege Fitness? Because like myself, the guy had a corporate background. And like myself, he was not the biggest fan, if I could say that, by all accounts, right? Then you kind of wanna know understand what is the philosophy Tapas: you jay: the guy has in terms of his company, like w what does he see the future, Tapas: you jay: where is it now, what all of the things that he's trying to come out with, how is he trying to improve the entire landscape? Then we wanna kinda talk about like why companies like Siege are an integral partless the towards the fitness spectrum here, because like when we work with a lot of clients who work in these commercial gyms, we face like lot of difficulties just from an equipment standpoint. Like how is Siege gonna be the guy that's capable of filling in that void, right? And we also want to kind of touch upon like the fact that Pranau is not only just a manufacturer of equipment, but the guy also trains Tapas: Hmm. jay: himself. So it's kind of important. Like I think it's important when somebody builds something, they also try and test the thing so they have a better understanding of the thing. Right. Then we also want to f kind of understand how does Siege choose to work with an athlete, right? If you follow Siege you understand that they work with like athletes from different disciplines. It's not just powerlifting, it's Tapas: you jay: not just strength training, but they have combat support athletes as well. Right. And in the end, we also want to have Pranov kind of give us an understanding of like when he starts out, what are the things that he avoided, what are the lessons he learned. So it's gonna be like an understanding of the company, the man behind the company and the lessons he's learned across his time. Right. So like I'll stop sounding like I'm reading off a teleprompter and I'll get to like the first question. Right. Tapas: Yeah. jay: I know that's how that was like manufactured as hell. But like Tapas: Yeah. Pranav: All right, guys, thanks for thanks having me on board. jay: so that's what happens when you No, no, my my pla like our pleasure, dude. Like Tapas: Our pleasure, yeah. jay: Yeah. And and like I I wanna just jump into the main thing itself. Like when you kind of started Siege Fitness, right? This wasn't like plan A, right? Like so like if you could kind of just tell people like what inspired you to kind of create it 'cause I I I found the story hilarious in the beginning 'cause I was like okay, the guy just decided and he said, Fuck it we ball. Pranav: It was a necessity pretty much. This was during COVID. you know, gyms were shutting down and there was nowhere to train. So at the point of at that time, you know, I decided to make a power rack for myself. I wanted to buy a power rack. but, you know, I wasn't able to find anything proper anywhere. So I have a background in manufacturing and we've got the capacity. So we just decided, okay, let's let's just make one. And it came out really well and that's pretty much how we started. jay: No, cause the thing is like the gap in the market was kind of evident at that point of time, right? There's like nobody 'cause I'm fairly su certain like during p the pandemic, most people had to kind of like like just asking out of curiosity, like probably like household from like a coaching standpoint, probably from a manufacturing standpoint. Both of you guys know this, like were home gyms a big thing at that point of time. Like in India. Pranav: No. Tapas: video starting up Kaushal Sumedh: No. Pranav: I Tapas: now. Kaushal Sumedh: Yeah. You you wanna you wanna Pranav: I wouldn't say that home Kaushal Sumedh: you wanna talk about the yeah, manufacturing part first? Yeah, good. Yeah, yeah. jay: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Pranav: I'll go ahead first, I think. Yeah. at I mean this is like in twenty twenty, like as a even though we did have a background in manufacturing, I don't know j like I don't wanna swear. But I don't know anything jay: Yeah. Pranav: about you know, running a business or like how the market worked. But at that point of time I was a consumer as well, right? 'Cause I went into the market looking for something. I was just not able to find anything worthwhile online or even offline at the at the time. there just weren't any real brands out there and whatever was out there was just not up to scratch. So even today today obviously like the the market has grown, but there's still a lot of room to grow from like Tapas: It's still relatively new. Pranav: from a consumer perspective, right? There's still a lot Tapas: Hmm. Pranav: of ignorance in the market and we do just don't have that garage gym culture that is it's Kaushal Sumedh: Yeah. jay: Yeah. Tapas: That's true. Pranav: huge in the US and like that You know, it it it brings about a lot of innovation in that space 'cause there is a lot of demand and like the customers are well aware of how to use, you know, all these different implements and equipment that manufacturers put out. So that's stiff competition and there's like a lot of ground, you know, a lot of fertile ground to to come up with new ideas. it is growing in India. That's I'm I'm really I'm you know glad to say that that it is growing and we're heading in the right direction, but like I'm not saying this from a n in a negative way. I mean it's it's it's very promising 'cause like there is a lot of room to grow. And I I'm very optimistic about where it's gonna Kaushal Sumedh: Yeah, so like as Pranav said, pretty much like there's no culture of that garage gym in India. Because in the US and in other countries also it's kind of big. In the UK also you'll kinda see it, but in India it's not because mostly because people don't have houses that can have that kind of space. Most people live in like smaller houses with multiple people living in one one place at a time, right? So that that was the main reason I think that's the main reason why most people didn't have that. Plus, like nobody ever expected something like COVID to shut everything down. So they never prepared for Situation like that. Tapas: Thank Kaushal Sumedh: But as soon as that happened, especially with like how there was so much awareness of you know people getting a lot more aware about like you should be fit, you should be more Tapas: Mm. Kaushal Sumedh: a lot more this thing into lifting. So people start getting into it, and then I think that's where you know a lot of companies started to grow from there. But yeah, like as he said, there was a big there was a very clear gap in the market, and it's fertile ground for him to just start growing something from the ground up. Yeah. Tapas: Because not jay: I just Tapas: really anybody jay: I Tapas: is catering to home gyms directly. jay: Yeah, and I Kaushal Sumedh: Ho home gyms or even like general, you know, like p power lip like there were never any good power racks to begin with in India. That Tapas: Hmm, yeah. Pranav: Even even now Kaushal Sumedh: was always a Pranav: if you go to any of these older gyms, right? Like it's just Kaushal Sumedh: Yeah. Pranav: not a it's not a an important like aspect of the of the gym. The gym owners don't jay: Yeah, yeah. Kaushal Sumedh: Yeah, yeah, yeah. The the power racks are just not good. Pranav: yeah, they just don't seem to find it important, I would say. Kaushal Sumedh: I mean most jay: Okay, like Kaushal Sumedh: of them have those like those hook kind of power racks still where you you can't unrack anything, you can't set up a per particular height. So Tapas: Hmm. Yeah. Pranav: Yeah, right. Yeah. jay: Yeah, yeah. Kaushal Sumedh: it is problematic if you want to use that rack for anything, any kind of compound lift, like literally anything. Right. That's Tapas: Yeah. Kaushal Sumedh: where I think siege racks are so much better because you have like they're they're very well made. They're w they have like a very good what is that? Like they have like smaller Pranav: Yeah, it's all it's it's laser cut, right? Like it's yeah. jay: No adjustable, right? Kaushal Sumedh: Yeah, it's all l it's all laser cut and it's like the quality of the steel is like very evident. So you have like you have like proper what is that? The holes the whole spacing and all that is so good. It's all standardized. Pranav: The whole spacing and all that. Yeah, it's all standardized, right. Kaushal Sumedh: Yeah. So you so a p a person of any height, anybody can do it really well. So that that that's jay: Yeah, I Kaushal Sumedh: And that's very important for people who want to train at like who want to at least work out seriously. Like we're not talking jay: Seriously. Kaushal Sumedh: about Tapas: Hmm. Kaushal Sumedh: going and competing and becoming a world champion or anything like that. Even if you're just a general person who wants to work out, you want to work out properly and you want to enjoy working out, yeah, you'll need something that's at least decent. I'm not saying you need the best, most expensive equipment out there, but much better than whatever you find in the market. Like that hook kind of rack has to go. It has to be removed from everywhere. jay: Yeah, and and I and I'd say this Pranav: I mean for me, Tapas: Even though... jay: like you you go sorry, go ahead, my Pranav: No, I was just saying Yeah, go on, go on. Sorry, go on. Tapas: No, no, I just wanted to add the... This is the bench cutting. Like generally you'll see like benches which are like extremely thin. Though that also Kaushal Sumedh: No. Tapas: needs to be just obliterated. jay: Like like I I just want to throw this thing as like like five years ago, like six years ago you go into like a commercial gym, you don't really see squat racks at all. Like you you won't see like but like at least where I ev even in like places like Cochin and Kerala, like where I am, five, six years ago you'd walk in a gym like a squat rack was like an anomaly, right? Maybe like one place or like fifty would have this. But today it's like the most common thing that you can kind of find out, like, you know. And like like Pranas said that that that culture, the garage this thing culture is like slowly it I feel like it's slowly growing. Like I have like more and more of my clients kind of asking me like how do I set up a home gym? What would I w what would you want me to like Kaushul you would have seen it with your own guys as well, right? Like more and more Kaushal Sumedh: Yeah, yeah, yeah. jay: guys wanna kind of get that kind of like home setup like kind of there. Kaushal Sumedh: In fact, even if they even if they're not looking for home setups itself, I see a lot of people who are willing to collab with the gym, talk to the gym owner and be like, Yeah, look, I want to have jay: Yeah. Yeah. Kaushal Sumedh: better equipment in my gym. So I think I should like ca can I bring my own barbell. That is a very common thing right now where a lot of people would want to buy like a barbell and put that up, you know, wherever they Tapas: Hmm. Kaushal Sumedh: go to. Or they'll ask the gym owner like whether they can buy one, keep something like that. Right. So Tapas: Yeah. Kaushal Sumedh: people are starting to demand for much better equipment, which is a good thing. 'Cause it's it should have always been a thing. When you be I mean, that's the thing, like when you're opening a business, of course you want to take care of your budget, but you also want to do things right so you don't have to keep changing things. 'Cause like how many times are you going to keep changing jay: Yeah. Kaushal Sumedh: equipment? Especially heavy equipment like in gyms layer. 'Cause removing, putting it back, picking up stuff and all that, it's a it's it's not easy to do again and again. Tapas: Yeah. Kaushal Sumedh: So you might as well do it right the first time. jay: Yeah. Pranav: say you know since you're talking about like the power rack that's just it's a very interesting piece of equipment when you actually look at it right it very seems very basic but Kaushal Sumedh: Yeah. Pranav: the way I look at it it's like it's like the foundation of your your your gym it's also like a jay: Yeah. Yeah. Pranav: it's a like like a Lego block right like it's like a it's like a building set you can add n number of attachments to it and that's sort of a niche I would say right now because I'm trying I'm coming out with Every single possible attachment that you can fit onto a rack. If you can fit it onto a rack, I'm making it. And Kaushal Sumedh: Yeah. Pranav: I have like a ton more things, you know, in the pipeline, like when it comes to just power rack attachments. you know, got cables now. We we got we got everything pretty much, just like a few few things left out. So and obviously that's it's a lot of room to innovate, to come out with new things. again, when we innovate, when I design anything, I I don't ape anything, right? Like because Tapas: Hmm. Pranav: again, when you look at like jammer arms, for example, then these aren't like things which which are new. They've been there for like Tapas: Yeah. Pranav: a long time. They've been there like way before. Like Rogues been all the companies in the US have been making them. there aren't anything new. But then we have like a few things which set them apart, like the fact that you can move them laterally, right? The fact that jay: Yeah. Pranav: you can set the starting position of the jammer. Or if you want to just lock them in a particular angle and And you press from there. So whatever attachments we come out with, I always try to innovate it in some way because I don't want to ape anything, right? Because I mean, these things are already there. I mean, they're and they're functional. What can I do to an existing product without, you know, obviously without compromising on the functionality, but I at the same time I don't want to make like make it gimmicky or like put on like just some bells and whistles just for the heck of it, so I can charge the customer, you know. Tapas: Yeah. Pranav: more. I don't care about doing that. I just wanna put out like functional heavy duty shit. Sorry, heavy duty stuff. So we try to put on whatever you know innovations we come out with, we try to keep everything as functional as it can be. jay: Yeah, because like go for go for go ahead. Tapas: That's kind of like what your philosophy is also right? Like that's the next topic there like just making sure that it's the most value for whatever like little space that your equipment occupies. Pranav: Yeah. Tapas: I've seen the commander and it does like a lot of things compared Pranav: Yeah. Tapas: to like a normal rack of that size that you would put in. Pranav: Yeah, jay: Can I just throw can I just throw a loot again? Pranav: I mean the comm the commander's like my my my pride and joy, you know. That's like that's the crowning that's the crowning jewel. jay: I I just wanted to kind of ask a little thing here and in terms of like something Pranav meant and like both like like Kaushan and Pranav kinda mentioned something that I think interacts like very well when you look at like performance and commercial stuff. Because from a performance-oriented you would want equipment that like from these power racks should be able to take a beating, right? Like you don't want stuff that kind of like we've all experienced one of those old gyms where with those diabolical racks where it can just fall apart. Pranav: Yeah, and the J hook like goes flying in the other direction and the bar crashes on your head and then you're like in a wheelchair. Yeah. jay: Exactly, right? And the one of the fixed pin stuff and all of that. Like you'd want equipment that can take up beating, but also like when commercial spaces take up equipment like this thing. One of the things that I like as a gym owner myself, I'd just say like you'd want something that's aesthetically pleasing as well. Right? So like when you kinda build something Tapas: Hmm, absolutely. jay: Right, like again, this is kind of weird. I'm just throwing Norman's name in here, but he was also telling me it's like whatever product you kind of build, it has to have functionality, but it has to have that aesthetic pleasing look. Like terms of like when I was using my sheets, Pranav: It does. I would say it does. jay: he was just like, you need to kinda have a balance of functionality and aesthetics, right? So like when you look at design philosophy, right? Do you look at like certain fundamentals irrespective of the price point you have in the equipment that you will never compromise on? Like these fundamentals you will never compromise on them. Pranav: so when I'm putting out a product, when I'm designing a product, I would say the cost aspect of it is something which is like dead last, right? it's not something that I consider in the initial status whatsoever because I'm not trying to I'm not trying to c I we don't we don't cut costs because I all my customers know this. I mean, and you guys know it. we don't we don't cut costs in it. we don't cut any corners or we don't we don't try to do that sort of a thing. I mean again like like I stated previously as well. it's all about making like heavy duty products which can take like a beating. Because you know, like my J hooks and in my racks, you see in the videos Tapas: Hmm. jay: Yeah. Yeah. Pranav: with the hydraulic that jig that I made. So that can take like you have my racks, which can like my two by two racks, right? The gladiator, the home gym rack, the home gym rack. jay: Yeah. Pranav: That can take like 800 kgs on the J Hooks, which is a lot, right? And then you got my three by three, the bigger racks which you all have at your gyms, those can take like over over a ton, like 1.2, 1.3 tons is what we've tested them at. So the first, the most important aspect of, you know, anything that I make is like it should be able to take like a ton of weight. because I mean it's it it's gotta be safe to use, right? We don't want like any accidents. besides that, it's just the functionality, man. Like it's gotta be functional. I don't want any gimmicky stuff. You've seen all these home gyms where they have the multi-gym thing, right? They've got like the chest press and the the Tapas: Yeah. Pranav: the butterfly and the lat pulled on and nothing works right. Like it's just there. It's Tapas: Yeah. Pranav: just there for the heck of it. jay: I'm surprised people still stell those. Pranav: Yeah, I mean people buy them. That's the thing. Like people buy them because there is like I mentioned initially, like there is a a lack of awareness or like you know, people are not as aware of what makes a piece of equipment good. It's not just the fact that you can cram like ten machines into one and nothing's working right, like you know, all the biomechanics are off and like you can't load any proper weight on it. And it's a mess. And then like the sellers take advantage of that, right? Because if the customer isn't aware, then you can make anything you want and you can stick it to the client. and people buy it. So Tapas: It has like functionality, but it doesn't do any of the functions like properly. Yeah. Pranav: No. Yeah, it's it's severely hampered and it's you know, it nothing works right, like basically. Tapas: Hmm. Pranav: And if you try to put any like kind kind of weight or any kind of stress on it, that's coming off. That's just gonna crumble. Kaushal Sumedh: Yeah. Pranav: So Kaushal Sumedh: like this is something that I experienced recently, whatever exactly you were talking about. Like I had a client who wanted to buy something for her like home gym and it was the exact same thing where like it was a lot of stuff but like nothing really works. None of it does anything. So then I that's what I told her I was like you're you'll be wasting money and space if you buy something like this. I'd rather you just don't buy anything rather than buying this. Yeah, you have like there's a lot of Pranav: That makes sense, yeah. Kaushal Sumedh: yeah, yeah, there's a lot of pieces of equipment like that, especially more of these weird brands. Like not I not specific brand names, but like off Tapas: Yeah. Kaushal Sumedh: brand equipment that you'll see. Which yeah. Yeah. Yeah, a lot of white label kind of brands. That's exactly Pranav: Yeah, you there's quite a few coming up. Yeah, there is a lot of white labeling going on. yeah. Tapas: White label maybe? Kaushal Sumedh: what I was thinking of. Like They they don't have like a proper brand name or something, it's just something it's just some copy pasted stuff from something else. Pranav: Yeah. Kaushal Sumedh: And it looks enticing in the beginning because you're like, if I pay this much, I can get a leg press, I can get this, I can get a chest press, I can Tapas: Hmm. Kaushal Sumedh: get a pulley, I can get that. all of these things jay: Yeah, that never pays off in the long run. Kaushal Sumedh: put into one thing. But yeah, but none of them really even work. And eventually I Tapas: You'll notice that you're unable to any of them well. Kaushal Sumedh: mean most of them don't load much anyway, because you're trying to load so many things at once you can't, and then They're not good enough like heavy duty equipment because they will break down quite soon. I've seen cables break down very quickly on stuff like that. So there's no point in putting money like that. You know, wasting money like that. Pranav: I think that sort of ties into how we design the commander, right? Tapas: Hmm. Kaushal Sumedh: Mm. Pranav: I'm gonna talk about the commander a lot, sorry guys. But Tapas: Peace. Pranav: so when you buy when you buy like a regular functional trainer, like again, this is more from you know, a home and like a a personal training studio Tapas: Hmm. Pranav: perspective. because you're trying to maximize efficiency, right? In the minimum amount of square footage, how much can you get done properly, right? Not like in a gimmicky way, like not like what we were just talking about. Kaushal Sumedh: Yeah. Pranav: so in the commander, like what we've done is we've we've basically you can switch between the one is to one and two is to one ratio. There's nothing really to switch. You basically have like two sets of pulleys on either side. So if you use Tapas: Hmm. Pranav: just one, you get like one is to two, which is your regular or sorry, your two is to one, which is like your regular functional trainer. You can use that for like your flies and like your light or stuff. And but if you just connect both the pulleys side by side, right? So just the handle has like two slots, all the handles. You can hook them on, or we got like a connector plate that just hooks on to both the carabiners. You get one is to one. Kaushal Sumedh: Yeah. Pranav: so that's good for like your heavier movements, which Tapas: Yeah. Pranav: you will miss out on if you have like a regular functional trainer. Then we've obviously done a lot of things like how you can take the trolleys up like a little higher than you normally can. So you get like the full range of motion. And small things we've done like in the connector plates to make sure Tapas: even the Smith attachment to that. Pranav: The cables don't get like twisted up when you're pulling them. Everything is all like s you know, stable and solid. jay: I I I kinda wanna put a thing up here is like it this is where I think it's kind of important, like the person who kinda builds these things also trains a bit themselves, right? Right. I I Tapas: Hmm. jay: think a lot of the times like people may build products that they don't really know much about. Again, not naming names, but like I'm fairly certain all of us who've lived in commercial gyms have experienced like a certain piece of equipment. You would a s assume it has a certain like like strength profile and like a resistance profile and strength profile matching in terms of certain things. But the things just don't work, right? Right. It it's just like a thing that doesn't make sense to us. Like so when when it comes to this stuff, like it's kind of im I'd say like the fact that Pranal trains himself, right? Like the guy lifts himself, you kind of have an understanding of like what's missing in the market as well. I always like to throw this thing out of people. Like I can tell how good a gym is based on how good their back equipment is, for example. Right? Because Tapas: Hmm jay: it's kind of like the more c kind of intricate they have in terms of like back equipment, quickly I can understand. Okay, like the guy who bought this thing, built this thing, kind of had like at least an understanding of like the foundational things, right? Like as someone in the fitness space, like I wanna ask you for now, like how important is the fact that you train yourself, like how much of that does kind of you think impacts the way that you design stuff as well? Pranav: Yeah, I think that's that's very important. It's like it's you you you can't be making things about, you know, you can't you can't make fitness equipment if you don't train yourself. Like you shouldn't be doing it. 'Cause it's it's it's way it's too important. 'Cause you you won't understand anything, any any of the flaws in your equipment, you're never gonna catch them. Like if if like the strength curve is off or if your cable length is too short, you're losing resistance. You won't even know what the hell that means. So Kaushal Sumedh: Yeah. jay: Yeah. Pranav: it's very important that you know how to train. Tapas: That's kind of why Kaushal Sumedh: Wells. Tapas: we have a lot of machines at gyms where you go and see who designed this, why is it like this. I have a preacher curl Pranav: Yeah. Tapas: at my place and yeah, have a very similar feeling. jay: Yeah, dude. Diabolical activities. Like Pranav: Also, you're Kaushal Sumedh: Yeah. Pranav: not gonna be able to, again, if you if you wanna set up a brand or like a business which is gonna last like a lifetime, right? You want jay: Yeah. Pranav: to be able to innovate and really make your mark in the space. And if you don't train, if you don't know anything about lifting, how are you gonna innovate? Like what what are you gonna innovate? So Yeah, you won't even like jay: Yeah. You don't know what problem solve for, right? You don't know what problem exists. Tapas: Absolutely. Pranav: if you need to recognize the problems to solve, and then only then you can come up with like proper solutions. Kaushal Sumedh: It's the same exact thing with like gym owners as well. Because gym owners who've been training for a while themselves, they'll have a very good understanding and idea of how to build a gym. Same thing, like what equipment to make, sorry, what equipment to take, bu then place where. You know, these are important things. And this is it's very similar, like how you said as an equipment manufacturer you have to know what exactly is happening or how machines are supposed to be built so that you can get the best biomechanics that you possibly can, so that people can have a good Experience working out on those equipment, right? Because that's the end of end of the day. That's that's what client customer relationships are. Like where you're trying to give them a good experience, an experience where they're feeling like they matter. Like, yeah, okay. Tapas: Hmm. Kaushal Sumedh: because like one thing that I've always told anytime, anytime comment like they've anybody has asked me, I always say, like, yeah, go for siege, because one thing that you'll not regret is the support. jay: Yeah, four facts. What a fact. Kaushal Sumedh: That's something that I always tell people. Like support is great. You'll always have like a good response. You'll always have like a you know, you'll never get like a yeah, it's a you problem, go fix it yourself. Because that's how most other people respond. Whereas Tapas: Yeah. Kaushal Sumedh: C does a good job of saying like, yeah, let me look into it and let's see what solution we can come down to. And if there's no solution, then we'll we'll replace it. Which is like a good way to go about things. So a lot of people will be like, you know, pretty happy with that. Pranav: Yeah, because now go on, go on, you go on first. Sorry, you didn't mean to cut you off. jay: Dude, and I and I swear to God, not doing sorry, go ahead. No, I was just saying, like, not doing that is the easiest way to like lose a customer, right? Like when Kaushal Sumedh: Yeah. jay: when we kind of got some stuff, like I kind of talked to Pranal, like, can we get X, Y, and Z? Maybe like looked into like he never said like he could have just said like no. Like, cause I've experienced that with Tapas: Thanks jay: other guys where you kind of ask them, man, can we kind of Like for example, I'll I'll give us a like a very simple example, like without naming names, I'll always mention these things. Like sometimes guys just don't understand that it's a fundamental flaw flaw in the machine Kaushal Sumedh: Yeah. jay: that can be very easily fixed. For example, Kaushal Sumedh: Yeah. jay: a lot of the times I've seen like they'll have very heavy cable stacks, right? And they'll have that one is to one resistance. But the padding they have around it for like, for example, leg extension or something, you have a heavy stack, but the padding is like dang near like clouds, right? The metal just hits your like sh like your like shin bone and it's dude. I'm not here to train Muay Thai, right? I'm here to do leg extensions. Right. This is not what I'm here for. Tapas: Yeah, you gotta put a yoga mat around it. jay: Right? Exactly. And and the and the goofy thing is like when you tell these guys this thing, they just don't understand the logic. Like Yeah. Kaushal Sumedh: Yeah, they just they just dismiss it. They're like, it doesn't matter, just go ahead with it, doesn't matter. But you can't push weight when your yeah, when your shins are getting crushed, you can't push a leg extension Pranav: Many of the Tapas: and nobody else complained. jay: Exactly. Yeah. Kaushal Sumedh: like that. It's not possible. It's physically like not possible to keep pushing like that at that intensity multiple times without feeling like your go your shins are gonna break. So jay: Yeah. See and and this is where like when the guy who doesn't train kind of builds a gym, they don't understand things like perception of effort, Kaushal Sumedh: Yeah. jay: right? It'll make a difference. Like how shall for example like a guy like Parth who needs that kind of heavy-duty equipment, right? He has to kind of be in an environment that caters to that stuff, right? Kaushal Sumedh: Yeah. That it's it's a thing I spoke about like a couple of years ago. I don't know if anyone has seen, but like on my Instagram I posted that video about why it's difficult to grow past a point as an Indian because you don't have equipment that ca allows you to grow. 'Cause like every ch every single gym has like what a double bully system lad pull down at seventy k that ends at seventy kgs. That's like a single arm lad pull down that you can fin you can get strong enough to pull that single arm in like what weeks? jay: Yeah. Yeah. Kaushal Sumedh: Like I've gone to so many places where I can just max out the machine and be like, yeah, I I can't put more so many Tapas: Hmm. Kaushal Sumedh: times, right? And you can't put in like like you can't just put a gym pin and like even stack more plates because the equipment is not built for handling more. So yeah, they're gonna snap. Pranav: Correct. Yeah. The guide rods are gonna snap like if you yeah. Kaushal Sumedh: So like if I'm somebody who's capable of like doing 120 or 130 kgs for reps, but I'm always limited at 70 kgs, then how am I gonna grow past a point, right? Because if I wanna grow at Tapas: Yeah, definitely. Kaushal Sumedh: some point, I have to push in like I have to push jay: Yeah. Kaushal Sumedh: the one ten, one twenty, one thirty, and then eventually I need to have more load than that if I'm stronger than that. Assuming I'm stronger than that. Right. So w Tapas: And there's this like, yeah go on go on. Kaushal Sumedh: So what I'm saying is like if something limits you from pushing your limits, then how can you push your limits? jay: Yeah. Tapas: Hmm, yeah. Kaushal Sumedh: Right? So you need equipment that allows you to go further beyond, which is why heavy duty equipment, like you're saying, is is pretty important. Like, you know, whether it's machine, whether it's cable, whether it's like plate loaded, whether it's whatever, like even free weights, whatever, it has to handle. Even free weights, if as a matter of fact, if you talk about it, if the barbell can't handle it, you can't, you can't like You can't deadlift jay: Yeah, yeah. Kaushal Sumedh: or like you can't squat more, like 'cause 'cause I've seen situations where like the ball starts bending around your back. If you start Pranav: Right. Yeah. Tapas: Hmm. Kaushal Sumedh: putting like more not even that much, like one eighty, two hundred kgs, which isn't like crazy load. It's not too heavy. Pranav: Correct. Yeah. Because most Tapas: Yeah. Pranav: most gyms over here in India they a lot of gyms I would say. Maybe not now Kaushal Sumedh: Yeah. Pranav: it's like it's changing, but like Kaushal Sumedh: Yeah. Pranav: at least before, right? Like there's nothing like a power bar, like what is that? Like Tapas: It's a... Yeah. Pranav: it doesn't exist. jay: Yeah yeah. Kaushal Sumedh: Yeah. Pranav: One thing I would like to go back to, you guys are talking about customer support, right? that is something that's like very core to Siege Fitness and to me as well, personally. And this goes into everything that I do, it's not just the customer service like the After sales support, but it's very important, you know, as a business owner, or you have a responsibility towards your customers. You need to respect your customers, you need to respect your audience, you need to respect even like your followers on Instagram. so that whenever we design a product, right? Like I want to make it the best thing that I I won't I will never sell something which I won't personally use. So Whenever we are designing our products and whatever we are putting out there, we we make it to the best of our abilities. We we run all sorts of, you know, whatever our QC process is extremely thorough. And I won't be ashamed to admit it. We because it's like a it's a process, right? So when we started in initially, we had a lot of products which weren't 100%, you know, the best that they could have been. Tapas: Hmm. Pranav: Because our own knowledge at the time was limited. but you know. We are we are not afraid to admit that. but like obviously, like if the customer has a problem, we like no matter what, like we solve it. We never charge them anything. We don't say that, hey, you gotta pay for the shipping or hey, you gotta pay for the replacement the the warranty period. jay: Yeah, yeah. Pranav: Our products have lifetime warranty. Why would I not give lifetime? I have like full confidence. I know like this thing can last. So we give that. And if something goes wrong, I mean it can go wrong, but if it if it When it does go wrong, we obviously we we re we we provide replacement. It doesn't happen very often. It happens very, very Tapas: you Pranav: few times. But when it does, like, you know, we we provide like full support. And that sort of goes into like our marketing material as well, right? I have a lot of respect. Tapas: Yeah, yeah, Pranav: I know my customers are you know, my clients or like my prospective clients, they're all knowledgeable and they're aware. So whatever c marketing content we put out, again, it's like it's catered. It's catered to you in a way where we respect your intelligence. jay: Yeah. No question because I think that's that's one of the biggest things that's li I I would say again, this is just my personal opinion. It isn't anyone else, it's just my thing. It's it's I've I'm experienced because I've worked elsewhere, like in different countries as well. Like there's a lack of continued professionalism that you can kind of experience in like things here, right? And if you can scale off of that, like people like from a business standpoint, I always tell people churn rate is not something you should be proud of or like if you can have it, Pranav: Exactly. jay: yeah, like like for example, if Kaushal Sumedh: Yeah. jay: we're now you're gonna come up with like Like for example, I I'll kinda give both of you guys an example. Like if you have like a hundred loyal customers that buy out every product that you drop, business is gonna be like fairly good, right? Like Pranav: Yeah. jay: you just have like an environment for the similar. Like if you have if you're like a coach and you said I've coached ten thousand people to like success, it's kinda to me, it's kind of a red flag. Like I don't know if you guys would kind of agree to that thing as a Pranav: You don't have any recurring clients then, right? Yeah. Kaushal Sumedh: Yeah. Tapas: Yeah. jay: Yeah. Kaushal Sumedh: I mean if you're if you have like ten thousand people, it just shows me that ten thousand people want to leave you. That's jay: Yeah, yeah, exactly. Right. Kaushal Sumedh: that's what I understand. Because I I've been coaching for what, like ten years now, and I think I've barely pushed like three hundred different people. Because they just stay once they join. jay: Yeah. Yeah. Pranav: Right. Kaushal Sumedh: And most of them are still current clients. Like most jay: And and and you Yeah. Kaushal Sumedh: of them have not left yet. And they always come back later when they have like better situation. Usually they leave because they're of something else. So you'd rather like you make a lot more money that way, you do a lot more business that way than, you know. jay: Yeah. I a and I I I and I think Tapas: Chasing new people all the time. jay: the most important thing for people to understand is like you kind of even if a relationship ends, right? Like it has to end because like maybe they have financial reasons, maybe life Kaushal Sumedh: Yeah. jay: kinda takes over. Like You if you continue to have like a business relationship with that person, if you just end on good terms or you kind of cater and keep your word, it kind of becomes very important. That's why I think personally, right? Because like I coach people, but I also had to run a gym and like we're starting other things as well. And the harshest thing that we've kind of realized is the lack of professionalism sometimes. Like a lot of the times you experience, right? And I think it's from a coaching standpoint or a manufacturing standpoint, people need to be mindful of the fact that business relationships don't end the second transactions happen. Right? It's like a long term. Pranav: Yeah, that's definitely that's definitely true. You see that like 'cause I I a lot of my clients tell me about their experience with the I love my clients by the way. I I really love them all. So thanks thanks a lot to jay: Thank you. Pranav: all of them, including you guys, of course, because you you guys are jay: Yeah. Pranav: my clients too. But you know, they they they tell me horror stories about like how they got treated by other, you know, manufacturers or other brands. And it just never makes sense to me. Like why why would you do that to like your custom your customer? But it's happening, it's have it happens a lot. So that's again that's something in within the industry that that standard it needs to improve. people just Tapas: There's like a very collective limiting mindset, you You notice jay: Yeah. Tapas: this with like the local gym owners who treat the gym and its customers like they kind of run the gym like a grocery store. They come and they sit and they go away. There's no, you feedback. There's nothing like what can we add? What can we make better? They Pranav: Yeah, they don't care. that's true. Yeah. Tapas: only care about that. Pranav: Also, like you know, this is another thing which we are we're very grateful for, 'cause we get to interact with a lot of like all of you guys. I it was like I got to interact with y'all before you before all this, right? Like all you guys in the industry, you know, get getting getting all your inputs and collecting a lot of information from you guys when it and that goes into designing. very specific like you know sport like I'm not a power lifter. So when we were making the combo rack you know Kaushall and there are so many so many powerlifters. There was Rajat, there was Mohammad Azmut, there was Jay Shankar. All you guys gave me so much like good information and that just goes into our product because we don't again like the cost factor that comes towards the end. Right. At the end of the day I want to put out like good, like really good solid products that that perform as advertised. So being able to collect all that inputs from, you know, the the the market. I think that's kind of Tapas: people themselves. Pranav: yeah, like especially from like accredited guys within the field, like all of y'all. you know, that's like that's that's the favorite part of my job, I would say. Favorite part of running the business when we are designing and launching something new, getting to collect the inputs. I'm coming out with a lot of new stuff. So yeah, that's like that's really exciting always for me. jay: like innovation like that, like I I don't know if Tapas forgive me like if I'm mis misremembering this but the owner of your gym one of the guys one of the owners is like very invested in actually upscaling the place right like as I'm always surprised when I see like how well Tapas: He is, he really wants to jay: equipped your like gym is. Tapas: Our gym, so like the one that I go to, really really good for bodybuilding and like stuff like that. Powerlifting also it's very good, you we have everything that we need except for like the bench being a little issue. But yeah, he's really into that and one thing that I have noticed from that personally and from everybody around me is that it just makes the whole community, communal environment a bit better. Everybody's a little bit happier, they're a little bit more satisfied with coming there. Yeah, we still have that bench as an issue there but Even with that, are able to manage and like things he really wants to do that. Like you said, he really wants to update, there's like a few issues there, which is why he's unable to right now. yeah, having just even just having that mindset, where in like you yourself are somebody who likes to trade and you're creating a space where you would want to train. then that will attract a lot of people who are similar, jay: And and and I just want to mention something in like Kaushul's case. Like I think this was because one of the first times I I think I interacted with Kaushul was like the equipment thing and he was talking about the limitation that it creates. Like I don't know I don't know where it was, but you had to like use a certain back machine and then when you max out you had to start doing pendularos and things like that. Right. Right. So like Kaushal Sumedh: Yeah. Like a couple of years ago for me it was like I pretty much maxed out everything where I had to change to other e exercises that are not the best for hypertrophy, but you kinda have to do it because Load was such a limiting factor for me. Like I jay: Yeah. Kaushal Sumedh: said, right? Like most lat pull downs basically just they just ended 70 kgs and then also double jay: Yeah. Kaushal Sumedh: pulley, which means like you're not getting that whole entire 70 kgs also. So you're getting lesser. Yeah, half the resistance. So Pranav: Yeah, you're getting one is two. Like you're getting half the resistance essentially. Yeah. Kaushal Sumedh: you're basically like it's so light, stuff like that. jay: Can you could you guys explain that to someone? I know it's a dumb request. Could could you guys explain that to someone? Like like I I know a lot of guys who still don't get it. Pranav: So when you say one s to one, if you have 100 kgs on the weights stack, right? You put it all the way down. when you when it's in one s to one, you're you're gonna get 100 kg of resistance on the handle. Whereas in two is to one, if you put 100 kg on the stack, you're only gonna get 50% of res 50% of resistance on the handle. So 50 kgs on the handle. Kaushal Sumedh: Yeah. Pranav: when in in a regular functional train or anything with adjustable pulleys. it is always one two is to one where you get only half the resistance. But whereas in your lat pulldowns where the pulleys are fixed, that's where you're gonna get one is to one resistance. Or you can just buy the commander where you get like dual pulleys. So you get one is to one on an adjustable frame. Sorry for the ad Kaushal Sumedh: Yeah. No Pranav: read. Tapas: Yeah. Kaushal Sumedh: no. I if if it is good and if it works then why not? Tapas: Yeah, definitely. Kaushal Sumedh: So like that wa that was basically something that I had a problem with and like I'd seen so many other people that I also coached. 'Cause eventually even if they're beginners, right, they do get strong enough to start pushing low to that kind of an extent. And then you you do you do need equipment that allows you to push things really well consistently so that you can, you know, get stronger and bigger and better. Because that's a part of being like even reaching like higher stages. Because I work mostly with athletes who want to go to that level, right? So you want people who you want like equipment that allows you to push to that level. Otherwise, how can you go, right? Like if if you're so limited, like to the point where you're getting only thirty five Ks of Lad pull down, then how are you gonna grow a like your back properly? Or like not just lat pull down, any any of almost all the equipment in that gym was like that, right? So you're getting so less You kinda have you can't just keep spamming reps. Cause like at some point you're just like, how many reps are you gonna spam? To the point where like this thing. So you're gonna do much better if you have like enough in enough intensity, enough volume workload, Tapas: Hmm. Kaushal Sumedh: and for that b for both of things to for all of these things to come together and work together, you kinda you also need equipment that allows you to put in that kind of intensity also. Cause yeah. So Tapas: Absolutely, jay: And equipment like I think like equipment like that also creates great environments for like people to train 'cause what I noticed because like Instagram, you kinda see like some of the best guys in the states right now, they all kind of w you can kinda see they all kinda work out in the same gym and they can kinda like really push hard because they have options for that, right? Like people may not like see Kaushal Sumedh: Yeah. jay: this, but if you have like for example, you you you're back squatting and all of a sudden you have a reason for something from a spinal standpoint prevent you from back squatting. If you have access to something like a bell squat, like access Tapas: Hmm. jay: to equipment Can like help you kind of like mimic the stimulus. Kaushal Sumedh: Yeah. jay: So, like dude, like Dylan Johnson, for example, when he kind of went to Wolves right now, he had like a pretty bad like quad injury, but like he could kind of replicate, he had a certain I forget the nature of the injury, but he he was using bell scores to kind of replicate that that that things, that stimulus. So, like when gym owners, when the entire market as a whole have an understanding of the fact that these kind of factors exist, the very nature of the entire ecosystem starts to grow. Right, like for 'cause I was watching like like on on c I think on Scousal stories I was watching today where like Park was like lifting, like there's no gym where he could go and like like I think he has to do weighted pull-ups, he has to do a lot of other things. Like he like he can Tapas: you jay: max out a lot of machines, right? Like there's no chance he could go to like a j the general gym and kind of even get any of those stimuluses. Kaushal Sumedh: Yeah, I mean most chess press machines also are so badly designed. Like there's no like I I've seen so many of my own guys who have like chess press machines where they they kinda have to like, you know, go like like that rather than like that. Because jay: Yeah. Yeah. Kaushal Sumedh: like this is this allows you like a much better path for you to like retract and then press also. But like jay: Yeah, yeah. Kaushal Sumedh: they have parts where like as they go down, they kinda have to like do this because of the limitation of the machine, and then they and it's like a bastardized JM press. jay: Yeah. Tapas: you Kaushal Sumedh: At that point, you're not really getting chest in it. So yeah, there are so many reasons for why equipment has to be good. If your equipment isn't good, you're gonna suffer, Tapas: Yeah. Kaushal Sumedh: your your market's gonna be like peop people are not gonna enjoy trading. I mean people don't enjoy trading, they're not gonna come back to you. You you'll suffer as a brand. Tapas: Absolutely, jay: Yeah, and I think I think I think that's where like when someone builds a gym and cuts corners in the very first part of the gym, right? They may be saving Kaushal Sumedh: Yeah. jay: a lakh or two up front, but I'd say like on a monthly basis in the long run that's gonna cost you like a ton of cash. Yeah. Tapas: And the longer it's going to cost them more. Yeah, definitely. Kaushal Sumedh: Yeah. Pranav: Yeah, aga again like jay: And and yeah. Pranav: it th most of the equipment that we make, it's it's again it's better suited for Tapas: Hmm. Pranav: there's there's a better appreciation in like a home gym or like a a personal training studio like the one that Kaushal Sumedh: Yeah. Pranav: you know, Jay is gonna be opening up soon. And then again, like you it goes everywhere, right? It's not just for like a j again, like for like like not specifically for powerlifting, but even for like general users and you know, combat sports and all these other other jay: Yeah yeah. No 'cause I would say like what like Again, like correct me if I'm wrong, but powerlifting is just like strength training with like a specific focus, right? I think strength training is gonna be the emphasis, like as the fitness and health and fitness sector is gonna grow by billions in like the coming years, right? And by whatever means, like like strength training is gonna be a central part of it. Whether you're like a combat sport athlete, whether you're like gen pop, like I'm a true believer in the fact that when someone says I co like you can eventually initially everyone starts off as gen pop, right? If everyone starts starts off as gen pop and if you have access to good enough and equipment good enough training environments you can build into that elite kind of situation right I Tapas: Yeah. jay: all because I always think of the situation like when I used to watch old Pete Rubish videos in Madison they had this mad dog fitness or mad town fitness there was him there was Josh like John Hack Pranav: Yeah, I remember that. jay: got all these kind of psychopaths training in the same environment and why did they all come there? Because the owner Dan was like he drove around in the entirety of America collecting the best equipment. Right? So like when you Pranav: He used to design his own he used to fabricate jay: Yeah. Pranav: his own things as well. So I th though these jay: So like Yeah. Pranav: guys were like very, you know, that's pretty much what we are trying to do over here as well. I mean we're not just fabricating junk, but like Kaushal Sumedh: Yeah. Pranav: you know, you as a user you will have a lot Tapas: you Pranav: of you know, you will understand like a lot of the like problem. Like for example, even in on the on the jammers, right? Like on the jam rams, being able to move them sideways and like being able to control how far they swing in and out. So it like it replicates like, you know, a dumbbell or like a converging press. So jay: Yep. Yeah. Pranav: again, that that degree of innovation again it requires requires experience at the gym. Yeah. jay: Someone experienced in the field, right? 'Cause you can't just have a Tapas: understanding the jay: designer come up with it. You're saying Tapas? Tapas: No, I was just going to say like on this topic only, know, on spending and all, we had this point on how like it's the juicy part, like everybody's going to want to this part on how Siege actually like chooses who they kind of sponsor, you know. jay: Yeah. Tapas: Like if you want to get into that. Yeah. Pranav: Right. Okay. No, I mean, yeah, of course, why not? Like let me let me get that out there. for us when we are choosing an athlete, right? or anyone to work with, the first thing that I would would like to see is are they a good fit for the brand itself, for what we do at Siege? Like are you aligned with that? Are you is your personality in you know, alignment with what's going on with Siege or with with the with what we are doing with our brand? that's the first thing. Besides that, the other thing that I would look at is what are they doing for the for the fitness space? Not for like only powerlifting, but like just in general, like in the fitness space. What are they doing? Are they are they making people aware? Are they, you know, are they putting out like good cont good knowledge out there? Not necessarily good content. I don't care about you as a content creator, it's just the are you helping people out with like your with your content? that's it. I'm not gonna look at your follow account. That makes like zero difference to me. I don't care if like the quality of your production is like good, that doesn't matter. Are you aligned with the brand and are you helping people out? That's what's most important. Tapas: You can avoid impact. Pranav: Yeah, and that's where the impact comes from, right? only in those cases, and again, like that's a very limited number of people. So if we don't accept or if we don't respond, or if we don't Please don't ever take that personally. that's it's just that you you're you probably will not be a good fit. And then that's just not sustainable. so yeah, we just work with a very limited number of people. like very few. Again, like you I don't think there's any more depth I need to go into besides that. jay: Thing is like you just don't stick to the like like you said, you don't only sponsor guys in powerlifting, you sponsor guys in the fitness space. Pranav: Yeah, like we got we got Ben, man. Ben's such a fucking crazy, crazy fighter. Like it's such a pleasure to watch watch him. absolutely insane guy. So we have we have him and then we have like proper like powerlifters and then we obviously got like a lot of coaches also that we work with. So we're not necessarily sponsoring and like you know giving things out like that. It's also just getting to work with them and getting to collect like inputs from them and that goes into like when we design you know our equipment. So that way we do work with quite a lot of people. We are very, very privileged for that and that's you know something that I'll never take for granted. jay: like base of like going building something up like this right like the last I also want to kind of like we have this as a topic that we want to kind of go over the thing is that when you kind of start something like this you kind of alluded to it early in like you made a couple mistakes in the beginning right like Pranav: Right. Tapas: Yeah, yeah, jay: like bo like you have extensive experience in like manufacturing now at this point I think C is now what six years in the game five years in the game five years right like cows are like ten years of Pranav: Yeah, about five years. Yeah. It will be five in like in October will be five, yeah. jay: Yeah. And like Tapas: Ciao! jay: counsels are like 10 years of experience in coaching. Like when you guys look back at your careers, right? Like if someone wants to kind of get into this business, like from prana your perspective, right? Because you mentioned it's a growing space, there are a lot of space, like like Pranav: It is, yeah. jay: like like there are a lot of like markets that you can still sell into. Well, when you start a business like this, what are like your biggest lessons that you picked up over like the last five years? Pranav: I would say if you're like getting into any, I'm not just talking about the fitness space, right? Or manufacturing in general. you need to have the capacity to manufacture. You need to have like the capability of you need to have the right machines, you need to have the right sort of a knowledge base with you and with like the staff that you hire. Do not get into the manufacturing space if you cannot do that, because it's going to be a very expensive endeavor. And it's not gonna work out really well if you cannot if you don't have the capability. once you've got that, then you know pick pick like a niche. Don't just generalize, don't make everything that you can. Just pick a niche, pick something that you resonate with, obviously, because that that's very important. Like as a like, because I I like the way power racks look and I like what they do. So I make them. So pick pick like a niche and then and respect your customers, you know. Tapas: Yeah. Pranav: Like. Have like a lot of regard for, you know, what they do. And don't Tapas: How would you say that like it's different to operate in the Indian space compared to outside because I know you've been out there as well. Pranav: Yeah, we do have yeah, that's we have like we have clients in the US as well because we export Tapas: Hmm. Pranav: over there. We've been doing that since twenty twenty two. very very lucky to you know have the have the chance to do that. And now we are expanding to Australia next. We are our Australian store is opening I think next month, if I'm not wrong. So that's gonna be great. but yeah, what I would say is the level of awareness You know, I said this in the beginning and the garage gym culture, which is already it's very strong. But obviously, because that you have like a ton of competition. But like I'll get to the competition Tapas: Hmm. Pranav: bit in a yeah in a few minutes. But the level of awareness over there and the appreciation for the quality that we put out, like minor things like the attention to detail, like you know, how we put UHMW plastic on, like all our so there's no metal to metal contact, how everything works smoothly and like the quality of the fit and finish. I'm not saying people here don't appreciate it, but the level of appreciation is a lot higher over there because they are aware more aware of of of these things. The min minor, like the the the minutiae, that's a lot greater over there. And the the markets over there are not as price sensitive. So yeah, that's a that's another factor. That's the big that's the that's the biggest difference here. Kaushal Sumedh: Yeah, I I th I think things are changing a little bit here also. Like current generation yeah, yeah, yeah. Chi curr c current generation Pranav: Absolutely. Yeah. Absolutely. A lot of people are big Kaushal Sumedh: has like a better they don't mind spending more of their money. Tapas: Yeah. Pranav: It's not just the current Kaushal Sumedh: So so Pranav: generation I would say, 'cause I do have a lot of gym owners and like older folks as well. Kaushal Sumedh: No, I mean to say like current generation as in like people who are below forty now, they are Pranav: right. Kaushal Sumedh: much more willing into like earlier, like you know, people of our parents' generation, for example, they were not willing to spend money like that. They would be like, Tapas: Mmm. Kaushal Sumedh: why do you want to spend so much? Why don't you look for something cheaper, right? But but Pranav: Yeah, again that like when you look at the older General C still don't have power acts. That's like not a thing there. Kaushal Sumedh: Yeah. Pranav: Yeah. Kaushal Sumedh: Yeah. So nowadays you have more and more people who are willing to spend on good good stuff. You know, as long as the thing is good, they don't mind losing a little extra, but they want to have something that'll last and like actually works really well. So there's Pranav: Right. Yeah. Kaushal Sumedh: a lot of shift in that way also, because more and more kids are willing to spend for other things. Like spending for coaching was not a thing. And parents also weren't okay with that kind of a thing. When we were growing up, it was not like you could you couldn't just go and be like, Yeah, I want to go go go get coached by somebody that I just met online. they they would just like, you're gonna yeah, jay: That's a scam back in the day. Tapas: Yeah. Kaushal Sumedh: yeah, that's a scam, right? That that wasn't a thing at all. But nowadays you see a lot of I mean still happens, scams still happen, but you see a lot of kids nowadays who are willing to spend on things like that. And parents also are willing to be like, Yeah, you know what? Like he's not doing anything bad. He's he's got a good Tapas: Hmm. Kaushal Sumedh: hobby. It's a nice thing to at least put into and you know, if they do well on the side, then great. Tapas: Absolutely, I can't relate with the... Pranav: Yeah, the level of awareness is also is improving like quite a bit, right? Yeah. Kaushal Sumedh: Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, that's what we were talking about before, also, right? Like programming was not a thing at all, like even s five, six years ago. People would Tapas: Mmm. Kaushal Sumedh: not accept that. They would just laugh at it and be like, why do you need that? Just do three into five or five into five. Right? That that was the level of understanding. But now more and more people, that awareness is growing, and people Pranav: Yeah. Kaushal Sumedh: kind of like as you said before, like people didn't even know what a power bar is. But now they're starting to understand, like, you Pranav: Yeah, yeah, exactly. Now Kaushal Sumedh: want a bar with a center nurling for squats. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That was Tapas: Hmm. Pranav: Exactly. And there's also jay: Yeah. Kaushal Sumedh: not a thing at all before. Pranav: Yeah. That also sort jay: See a and I and I I I I'll Pranav: of okay, sorry, I'm cutting everyone off. Go on. jay: No no No, I I I was just gonna say is the fact is that like It's i it's th there is evidence to the fact that it's still largely a growing and not fully grown. I think it's still in an infantile position simply because we we we all have like we all have clients Pranav: yeah, yeah, absolutely. Kaushal Sumedh: Yeah, yeah, for sure. Tapas: Yeah, absolutely. jay: who work in these commercial gyms, right? And you'll see the fact that a lot of like a lot of my guys don't have access to central nurling bars. They just have like and these guys are not working out in like your local like no-name gym, right? They're working out Tapas: Mmm. jay: in like these commercial like hubs of gyms, like and the reality is like at some point or the other this narrative Of commercial like health and fitness is gonna merge with this quality health because you can't like kind of have this narrative without that element of quality at some point or the other because the internet won't allow for it, right? More and more people will call on for it. Tapas: Because right now you see a lot of these... Yeah, go on. jay: Now I'm just gonna say, even the last thing that Pranam mentioned something important that I've seen personally is the fact that the metal on metal contact, for example, the small details like that, right? I appreciate it a lot. Like, I forgive me that I don't I don't remember the name of the material, but like when you re-rack a bar. Pranav: Yeah, the plastic, UHMW. jay: Yeah, like f so for example, just just basic care like that extends the lifeline of like a barbell for like years, dude. Because like when you go Pranav: Absolutely. jay: like sometimes see in gyms that they have great barbells but there's just sheer n and you I I've experienced this with manufacturers myself as well. Like those like dude, there is no way you can there are some equipment that we bought that there's no way you can kind of like sell that to someone in the long run. Right? Essentially Kaushal Sumedh: Hm. jay: we bought it from them had a custom like or like chain setting on RN. Because they didn't have an understanding on their end as well. Pranav: Yeah. jay: Yeah. Pranav: I think people are demanding more and more, you know, even when it comes to things like attachments and things like that, like for the because people are understanding now that okay, you can put a bunch of stuff on on this rack. So jay: Yeah. Pranav: again that that Tapas: Hmm, yeah. Kaushal Sumedh: Yeah. Pranav: gives us an opportunity to innovate again. 'Cause like if some if there is a dip because we are not we're never afraid to like take criticism or like take inputs from even regular clients, right? Sometimes they come up with like crazy ideas and I jay: Yeah. Yeah. Pranav: always I I I really appreciate that. But Kaushal Sumedh: Okay. Pranav: That sort of opens up another space for for us to innovate when it comes to attachments. Cause there's a lot, a lot more that we are coming up with. again, I think we would we were discussing earlier about something about competition, right? and yeah. So I was jay: Yeah, yeah. Tapas: how that kind of helps grow the space with like you bringing better products in. Pranav: just talking like I'm just tying it back into into the into the innovation aspect because like you we were speaking about in the States. since it's it's a well developed market and there are a lot of competitors, a lot of players, a lot of local guys and the the people even like they're getting they're getting white labeled things from China, but they are they have Kaushal Sumedh: Yeah. Pranav: their own plants in China where they manufacture. They own the the factories over there in China, like Kaushal Sumedh: Yeah yeah. Pranav: parts of it where like I I I I don't know if I guess you can we can speak about international brands over here. Bells of steel, for example. They manufact all the things are manufactured in China. And same thing goes for like even rep, like a lot of Quite a quite a few of the of the products that they put out Kaushal Sumedh: The rep fitness you're talking about. Yeah. jay: So they own the mu they own the factories then? Pranav: Yeah, yeah, they do. So they have like a a very high degree of control over what they are making over there. So it's not strict it's not a w white labeling, strictly speaking, but it's made as per their, you know, whatever specifications over there. so when you have that sort of a a well-developed market, right? and there's a a high a high degree of competition, there's a high degree of awareness, you really need to step up your game in that sort of a space, right? You need to innovate and like you need to like dial up the quality. And that's where like I would say that that's the only point where like price sensitivity should factor in. Where that is also that's just one of the few you know dials left to turn over there in that particular sort of a well developed market scenario. But Tapas: I think we're Pranav: again that that is as a manufacturer that's like Somewhat lacking, I would jay: something he Pranav: say, over here. And it's it's very important. Like it's we we need to have some sort of situation like that over here eventually. Because that allows us as manufacturers to put out better quality products. And then the competition ends up, you know, benefiting the customer ultimately, benefiting us as well as as makers, because we are able to perfect our craft. so yeah. jay: This is where I like I I'll Time goes on and people get more and more educated on this stuff, right? Quality of equipment and stuff like that. Like I I'd say one international brand name and like based on how a person reacts, I quickly know okay, like how low how in depth like if I were to say this name, like if I were to say techno gym, right? Like in terms of their stuff, right? Like they used to have like a grip on the market, but like we all know Kaushal Sumedh: Yeah. jay: when I say that what what without getting into legal trouble, if Pranav: Yeah, right. Yeah. jay: I were to say techno gym, everyone here quickly just understands what I mean by the fact is that it's it they have that that narrative around them now, right? So it's because I think that innovation element in them is like kind of like gone another way. Because when you look at things like for example, like in the States, like when you look at something like I I would say this, for example, when someone has something like Arsenal strength and they try to mimic that thing, right? I think what people miss out on is like the last 20% of detail that these guys have. Right? You can create the frame. But Pranav: Correct. Yeah. Kaushal Sumedh: Yeah. jay: like I think b a lot of the times I I personally would argue this because I talk to like a lot of these manufacturers, they just don't lift and they don't understand. Tapas: Yeah. jay: So they don't see the minute problem. Like like like for example, when Kaushul talks about the fact that a chest press machine that has like that resistance profile kind of go like that. All of a sudden you kind of understand the guy who designed this really didn't think about it. Right? Kaushal Sumedh: Yeah, I didn't think about it at all. jay: Yeah. And and and yeah. Yeah. Pranav: So we don't make a lot of machines as of now, but like I'm definitely that's in that's in the pipeline. Kaushal Sumedh: No, but like as you said though, like when you started Even something like some something as simple as squat racks like power racks or jay: Yeah. Yeah. Tapas: Yeah Kaushal Sumedh: barbells, power bar, like you know, these they were they weren't Pranav: Yeah, that was it wasn't even there. Kaushal Sumedh: a thing. But like now you have like you have good number of options also nowadays. Like, you know, Siege, Pranav: Yeah. Tapas: Hmm. Kaushal Sumedh: of course, was one of the first ones to begin, but you do have good number of options and like it's good to see that there are more, there's more competition as well because it makes you also want to innovate. It makes Pranav: Yeah. Kaushal Sumedh: you up your game. Because like end of the day, right? Like as as the the more It's all about like lasting longer than these brands to some degree. Pranav: Yes. Kaushal Sumedh: Cause like as while you start before and there are other brands that have come, even if there are similarities in quality. Pranav: We weren't actually like within the market, within India, we were not the first ones. There there were like a couple of other guys as well. Yeah, that was one of the first. One of the three, I guess, yeah. Right. Kaushal Sumedh: No, but like you were one of the first ones. W one of the earlier ones. Yeah, one of the first ones. Yeah, Tapas: Hmm. Kaushal Sumedh: yeah, one of the three. There were other brands that did start before, but like Pranav: Correct. Kaushal Sumedh: During that time is when people started to notice like there's a market here that we jay: Yeah. Kaushal Sumedh: can actually Tapas: Yeah. Kaushal Sumedh: work on. Pranav: Yeah, yeah. Kaushal Sumedh: So you know, like e even if the like quality of barbells or like equipment can be similar today, as people start to grow, they start cutting corners, right? So eventually Pranav: That's true. Yeah, that always happens. Tapas: this. Kaushal Sumedh: brands start to fall off because like people will be like, Yeah, I mean I bought a jay: Yeah, yeah. Kaushal Sumedh: barbell like two years ago, but the current one it just doesn't feel the same anymore, right? So then people will, yeah, and because of that kind of competition, the brands. That continue to innovate and actually feel like what they can improve on, those will continue to move forward. Whereas the other ones will just be left behind. Because as you see more Tapas: Definitely. Kaushal Sumedh: and more people get into it, and even machines, as a matter of fact, people are starting to like do better. Because like the earlier, a couple of years ago, there's only one brand that I can think of. And they never did a good job, so they were always there everywhere because that was the only brand, only option. jay: Yeah, they're the only option on the market. Pranav: Correct, yeah. Kaushal Sumedh: But now you see more and more people, like you're talking about, you were talking about that RSE strength, this thing. Like you can copy the kit. jay: Yeah. Kaushal Sumedh: And it'll still be great. Right? It'll jay: Yeah. Kaushal Sumedh: still be much better than what you find in the rest of the country. But it's still like yeah, as you said, it's still missing those finer details. jay: All things. Kaushal Sumedh: Yeah. Pranav: So okay guys, I'm almost there. jay: And and this is where I I I I and and and I I all Kaushal Sumedh: Yeah. jay: I also want to kinda say the fact that this innovation thing, right? When lifters actually think about equipment, I'm gonna mention a brand that I think is like stellar in my it's like Megamas. Like the way that they kinda design that right? Pranav: Yeah, absolutely yeah, too good. Yeah. jay: Like when when you kind of think about that, when you think about like the guys over at like prime when they kinda make like back equipment and stuff, I personally think when you kind of think about the last 20%, right? That is where like equipment becomes like elite level, in my opinion. Because there's only so much you can do in terms of biomechanics, right? Pranav: Correct. jay: But like how you can kind of reduce perception of effort, how you can kind of like allow for better setting up, how you can allow for better adjustments, right? Pranav: Yeah. jay: Because there's gonna come a time where a gym that will have a guy come of cowshold size, but there's also gonna be a guy that's gonna come that's like maybe like 50 kilos that's just starting. or at a young age. You wanna have like equipment lineups that can kind of cater and I think elite equipment does that very well. They're highly, highly, highly adjustable. Like MegaMaster is like really good. Kaushal Sumedh: No, like as I said also, Tapas: Yeah. Kaushal Sumedh: like like the guy who's at fifty kgs now, you never know how fast he might improve. Like jay: Yeah, exactly. Kaushal Sumedh: a year later the guy might be stronger strong enough to like, you know, push more than everything that's available at the gym. So you might as well be well equipped. Of course, within your budgetary constraints and all of that, but you Tapas: Yeah. jay: Yeah. Kaushal Sumedh: might as well be well equipped to make sure that people are happy enough with your stuff so that more and more people continue to join and tell you. And at the end of the day, a lot of business is word of mouth. It's a lot of word of mouth. People, Tapas: Yeah. jay: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Kaushal Sumedh: people will like you can have all the Google reviews you want, but people will talk later. Right? jay: Yeah. Yep. Kaushal Sumedh: You can put a Google review saying that this guy is amazing or this place is amazing. But eventually when somebody comes and asks you in person. You know, you'll kinda be like, Yeah, I didn't like I didn't really like it or whatever. Pranav: Again that ties into like, you know, we a fundamental lack of respect for the customer. All Kaushal Sumedh: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yep. Tapas: Yeah. jay: Yep. Yeah. Pranav: it comes down to just that. Tapas: truth shall prevail. jay: And and and also the last thing I want to mention on my end is like there's no re i it's not like cause and effect, yeah, I don't want to say direct cause and effect, but it's not unlike it's not like unbelievable to hear the fact that like a gym with great equipment produces some of the best lifters, right? Like it it's essentially you have more access to more tools, you therefore can solve more problems, like tapas. I'm su like at your young age, like in your gym, like how many guys who are like sixteen, seventeen to right? Tapas: Honestly speaking, I feel like it's kind of like a domino effect when you have good equipment you attract better people and honestly I jay: Yeah. But yeah. Tapas: have this is like a personal thing you guys can like give your input but I feel having a good community just having people to work out with who share similar goals or jay: Yep. Yeah. Kaushal Sumedh: Yeah. Tapas: are much better than you that by itself helps you progress a lot more just overall Kaushal Sumedh: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Tapas: yeah so that's something that I have noticed like at my place also at my gym I know there's like a lot of teenagers that come there are you kids who are in school like 11 wealth or stuff like that and classes and they left a lot. left quite a lot for that age and yeah, it's pretty, it's pretty inspiring looking at that. And I feel if we are able to create a community or at least if we're able to bring the space up to a point where there's a lot of these mini communities everywhere, the strength space will multiply 10 folds jay: Yeah. Yeah. Tapas: because right now I feel like you see there's a lot of luxury gyms that I know a few here as well, which are luxury gyms. have like, you know, they have all these fancy walls and like a lot of The lighting is absolutely like very phenomenal, but their equipment is not really that good. Like the equipment is where they don't invest as much. think that also needs to be turned around a little bit. jay: the as the as the customer's like level of intellect kind of grows in this space Tapas: Hmm. jay: it kind of becomes like not investing is almost insulting the customer in that way. That's why I think Tapas: Yeah. Kaushal Sumedh: Yeah. jay: like a I I think in the long run a lot of these big name corporate b gyms right they're just gonna get cooked simply by the fact that people are just gonna be like dude this is not what I think a leg press should be doing my spin yeah Kaushal Sumedh: Now like one thing that I really want to add in here is like you have businesses and places that are purely commercial and then you have businesses and places that are very like community driven. And when you have a well community-driven business, it's kind of important that people don't cut corners and they understand that the more you give back, the more you get back. jay: Yep, yep, yep. Yep. Kaushal Sumedh: Right. Yeah, as a whole community, when you're somebody who goes to a gym and you're like, yeah, I'm willing to pay you the full amount that you're charging, that's fine. And then you'll see, like, you'll just keep getting newer and newer equipment in the gym, right? So it's very similar to the like any business, also. Like the more you're able to put into a business, the more you're able to help you know, a business in its initial stages, jay: Yeah. Kaushal Sumedh: the more the businesses will be willing to give back to you later on. jay: Back to you. Yep. Kaushal Sumedh: Like not every single business is out to bleed you dry. jay: Yeah. Kaushal Sumedh: Yeah. So some pe some like Tapas: That's true. That's true. Kaushal Sumedh: people need to understand that as well. And things will definitely they're already improving a lot. Tapas: improve. Kaushal Sumedh: There's a huge difference since like a c just a couple of years. Just just from like Tapas: Because like Kaushal Sumedh: second covet lockdown to now, there's a huge difference. Yeah. Pranav: Yeah. The the the customer Tapas: Hmm, yeah, definitely, definitely. Pranav: as they get as jay: And and and Pranav: people get more aware, right? again, that that that opens up Tapas: Exactly. Pranav: a lot of avenues even for as a manufacturer, right? We get to innovate, Kaushal Sumedh: Yeah. Pranav: we get to put out like new things 'cause now people know. Okay, like earlier when we got into the space, the just like regular jammers, they were like the lot of people don't even know like what what they are and what they do, like the jammer arms. So Now like almost every every customer that I sell a power act to, like, you know, has some sort of interest in looking at it as a as a base where they can add like a bunch of different attachments and grow the thing. So again, like as people get more aware, you know, we've we're it's gonna allow us to come out with like more stuff. So Tapas: Hmm. Pranav: it's it's pretty it's it's it's these are like you know, go yeah. Tapas: As people get more technically aware as well, they're just going to start choosing better. like even the, even people who. jay: Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Pranav: Yeah. Because I think the price sensitivity I'm I'm sorry to cut you off, but like the price sensitivity factor is over here it's like extremely price sensitive the market, right? But Kaushal Sumedh: Yeah. Pranav: I feel people are wisening up to the fact that like, you know, when you spend more, it's not necessarily a bad thing because you're getting a yeah, you're getting a Tapas: Scam. jay: Yeah. Pranav: much better quality product and maybe you don't need all those other gimmicky features that you have in those multi-gym things. so people are are getting aware. It's it's it's happening slowly, but like it is happening. So that's very encouraging for me. jay: I don't I don't I I I will Kaushal Sumedh: Yeah. jay: bet my life I have yet to come across a multi gym that is actually like kind of like what you should do. Pranav: Yeah, no man, they're all they're all pretty much dog shit. Like I'm I'm sorry, fuck, I'm not supposed to fuck keep cursing, sorry. Tapas: Yeah. jay: Yeah, lucky and ten dollars in the swaj, yeah. Tapas: Yeah. Yeah. Pranav: A bad Kaushal Sumedh: Yeah, it's okay, it doesn't matter. jay: No, but Pranav: But yeah, they're they're they're like they're no good. Like they it doesn't do anything, right? Why would you like use that? Like you can just Tapas: Purpose driven like specific machines are way better. jay: No. Dude, I swear to God, like Pranav: Yeah. jay: I have all three of you here. I'm just gonna ask you, like, y'all ever been to a place and see, that multi gym, that was a useful thing. I have never, like. Pranav: No man. That's why I that's why I never I never bothered making one 'cause it's it's the probably the most pointless thing that you can do. Like it nothing works. It's just Tapas: Those are just cheap like Pranav: it's not gonna work. Like just don't buy it, please. Tapas: I feel, I feel that just like a cheap thing for like people who promise like a society James, you just put that in there. Pranav: Yeah. I mean this is again like it's it's like jay: Exactly, Dora. Pranav: th these are just like white label things which come out of China and they they just cram like a bunch of stuff into jay: This is like like yeah. Pranav: one thing and then they're like, Okay, this is gonna work but it it's like it's bad. It's really bad. Tapas: because the only place where I have seen this multi gym thing where there's like a leg press and a dip bar and a chest thing on like all of them and I've seen it so Pranav: Yeah. Tapas: commonly in societies and Kaushal Sumedh: Yeah, and like having so many things at once also, no, none of them are good. Nothing works. Yeah, yeah, nothing works. Pranav: Nothing works properly. Nothing works properly. Everything gives you like jay: Good yeah. Not even no exactly. Tapas: Absolutely, absolutely, yeah. Pranav: ten percent performance what what the what's the point? Kaushal Sumedh: Yeah. What's the point? jay: And and and I can say this, like you know in all of these multi-press things there'll be a leg extension attached, multi-things, there'll be a leg extension. It never works. Yeah, it never works. Pranav: Yeah, and the it's like so small, like you don't get any leverage. Like what what is this? Kaushal Sumedh: Yeah, and it's so bad. Tapas: Yeah, yeah, Pranav: Yeah. Tapas: it's like, yeah. Kaushal Sumedh: You don't even fit into it. I don't think even like anybody above like five, two will yeah, they won't fit. Tapas: 75? Yeah. Pranav: You know, we we have Kaushal Sumedh: They won't fit. Pranav: like a we have like a leg extension attachment, right? That we make. Tapas: Mmm. Kaushal Sumedh: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Pranav: So I'm it's like it's like it's really heavy. Like I'll I'll I'll say it right off the bat. Like it's it's really heavy and almost unwieldy to use. But what we have done is we've allowed the seat to basically tilt backwards. So as a si the jay: Yeah. So you get that stretch. Pranav: yeah, as a seat tilts, because again, this is like an arc motion, right? And you're like using static Tapas: Mm-hmm. Pranav: weights. The bottom half of the resistance gets eliminated because of the arc motion. So jay: Yeah. Pranav: by tilting the seat, you kind of you get resistance right from the start. So things like that, right? Like these other like extension, whatever in these multi-gym things, they don't do things like that. So it just doesn't work. Yeah. jay: I don't know who makes them dude. I I don't Tapas: Thanks jay: know who makes some of that guy that person needs to get back to 'cause like Tapas: Yeah. Pranav: Yeah. jay: 'Cause 'cause like in all account you're just wasting raw material, dude. Like in in all account. Tapas: Yeah. Pranav: Do it like I mean, like see that's the thing, the I mean if they're they're only gonna make it if people are gonna buy it, right? So I mean jay: Yeah, I Tapas: Yeah, jay: yeah. Tapas: it goes back to the same thing I mentioned earlier about the average person. Like, you know, a lot of these local gym owners viewing the gym as like a grocery store, they can set up Pranav: Yeah. Correct. jay: Yeah. Tapas: once and then just keep going there every single day. Pranav: So as people get aware, again, see, that's that's the reason why I s why we sponsor people and why we work with people, right? 'cause I shouldn't give away these secrets. Okay, whatever. But people Tapas: Secret. Pranav: people need to be aware. Like the c the awareness, the the level of knowledge in the space right now, man, it really needs to go up. So it's it's yeah, Tapas: 100%. Pranav: so that's like that's like my responsibility as a As a manufacturer, right? As a provider in the space. I need to get I need we need to get those we need to get those numbers up. jay: Yeah, the a and the reality is like with the internet this like everything's quality is starting to go up like when I think when I was growing up, hearing of a teenager benching a hundred kilos was like a mythical creature, right? I was like Pranav: Yeah. jay: do they like you walk in one of those places like everyone's doing it. Right? Yeah. So the thing is like the entire Tapas: Now it's like another day. Yeah, it's another day now. And the thing is like... Kaushal Sumedh: Yeah. jay: yeah. Tapas: Yeah, go on, go on. jay: I think like the thing is like where the Western market has the advantage in my opinion is collegiate sports. Right? When you go to like Tapas: Yeah. jay: university, when you go to like high school level stuff, the NCAA, all these things like dude, when I was when I was in grad school in Canada, like the gym had like 18 squat tracks. Pranav: Yeah. jay: Right? It is is insane. Tapas: Hmm jay: Right? 18 squad racks, 18 deadlift platforms, the whole nine yards, like they had a football team right there. Yeah. Pranav: That's just not there over here. Cause even when we get you know, when we get these college gyms trying to set things up, they just want to multi-gym. I'm like, come on, man, like why you put Kaushal Sumedh: Yeah. Pranav: what why are you asking for this? It's not good for any of the students. Yeah, then there's that that jay: Centers of education too. Pranav: again, like it's as the awareness improves, right? Like the knowledge level. People have jay: Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Pranav: to be aware of how important these things are. So it will at some point of time hopefully, you know, take hold. jay: Yeah. Pranav: Collegiate sports, yeah. jay: I think five years time i if you're behind if you if in five years time you can't have any more gimmicks I feel like like at least from like Tapas: Yeah. jay: a larger perspective because people are following out. Yeah. Yeah. Pranav: Yeah. Hope I hope so. I mean I hope so. Tapas: We're going to make this space a bit smarter, a lot smarter. Pranav: Yeah, we gotta make the space smarter. Hey, that's like gotta put that on a t shirt, man. Tapas: Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's kind of our whole thing, right? That's kind of our whole goal. And it's been working out pretty well till now. People who've been watching and all. Yeah. Pranav: Yeah. We gotta get rid of AI jay: Yeah. Pranav: we gotta get rid of AI generated content, by the way. It's disgusting. Tapas: Yeah, for sure, for sure. jay: That like by by all accounts that's you can kind of tell by the first five seconds, yeah. Yeah. Pranav: Let me talk about that. Yeah. Let me talk about that. Cause that's like a that grinds my gears. Yeah. Again, it's Tapas: Like that shit freaks jay: Yeah. Pranav: like a fundamental lack of disrespect. You don't disr you don't respect your audience's intelligence. Yeah. And you're you're Tapas: Yeah, the people who are there. Yeah. Pranav: putting all this low effort like slop. Right? It's and it's now again, I'm so glad people catch on to these things, right? Tapas: Yeah. Pranav: It's it's it's dreadfully obvious like when something is made on Tapas: And like the amount of time you spend like prompting it and generating it, could have just gone on Canva and made one. It looks so much better. Yeah. Pranav: Yeah. You could have just yeah, put put in a little bit of effort. Like it's not so difficult. jay: Yeah, yeah. Pranav: You see it you see it all over jay: Docause it cut. Pranav: Instagram and like you see people like companies putting out like the product posts and like even in the Tapas: Yay. Pranav: right let me just say this off bat, we don't use AI anywhere. Like Tapas: Mm-hmm. Pranav: I don't care like if it it drops my efficiency down and I'm making zero money. I will never use AI. I don't Kaushal Sumedh: Yeah. There's just something weird about that art, even if it looks good to some people, is yeah. It never looks Pranav: Yeah, it never looks good. It it jay: Dude, it's frightening dude. It's it's nightmare fuel Pranav: doesn't even look good. jay: sometimes. Pranav: It doesn't even Kaushal Sumedh: Yeah. Pranav: look good. That's the that's the funny thing. Like it it looks like Tapas: Absolute dog shit, yeah. Pranav: crap. Like it looks like dog shit. Like why would you why would you do that? Tapas: Yeah. Pranav: And even like we don't use it on on any of our marketing c it's pretty obvious seen on things. Even Tapas: Hmm. Yeah. Pranav: on all the captions and like on the website page, write ups, there is no AI any we don't have any AI chat bots. You know, we respect our customers to like put a person on it or like I'll talk to them myself, right? Kaushal Sumedh: Mm. Pranav: it's it's bad, man. Like peop like peop people need to like ban that shit. Like I swear to god. Tapas: Yeah, like people advertise their products with AI and then like you look at the advertisement instantly you're like, why are they wasting their money on that? Yeah. Pranav: Yeah, it's dog like who the fuck would wanna buy that, man? It's like jay: It's frightening though. Pranav: dog shit. They need to cut that shit out, man. I'm swearing so much, dude. I'm sorry guys. jay: I don't wanna Tapas: You jay: go off on like a tangent Kaushal Sumedh: that's okay. jay: here, but I wanna ask you guys, like on Instagram you see these AI ads for like these T V shows or like stuff like that. Y'all y'all ever seen that stuff? Like weather generating thing? Pranav: I've seen worse things than that, dude. Like I've seen worse things like people advertising events Tapas: Dude, you've got enough. Pranav: and competitions with the jay: Yeah. Pranav: AI generated Tapas: Like, and it all looks the same, like there's like one photo and there's like all these like wiggly art. Yeah. Pranav: Yeah, it all looks the same. It's the same. Yeah, it's all the same. Like come on, you don't have to do that, please. jay: And and you and you can also tell tell when some I sorry, you got yeah, yeah, yeah. Tapas: Someone is talking with an AI script. Like after a point, you just recognize it. Like you're like listening to the real, they're like talking something useful. I was like, no, wait. Yeah. You can just recognize it. Yeah. Yeah. Pranav: Yeah, it's GPT talk. It's GPT talk, right? Yeah, it's awful. jay: No human talks like this, dude. And and the the worst part is like sometimes you'll get someone coming and they're like, Yeah, I I work see, I always, for example, I think AI is kind of d dangerous in in one way in the fact that it will kind of take away that need for critical thinking. Like sometimes when you program Tapas: Yeah, definitely. jay: for a client, right, and Kaushal Sumedh: Yeah, yeah, for short. jay: you see this program and you're like, Dog, for you to have this as a tertiary day, there would have been a specific reason the coach would have seen something there, right? And this is where I'd say like just you still make sure critical thinking is an important part. Like when you're designing something like program or designing something like a brand, designing something like equipment, right? Like this whole thing about AI efficiency, like Pranav said, like in the name of efficiency, people will cut ten corners and then everything is gone. Yeah. Pranav: You're cutting out the soul, like the the people use AI Tapas: Yeah, absolutely. Pranav: like in to make like the the logo or the figurehead of your business. How jay: Yeah, bad minimum stuff. Pranav: could you do that? Like that's that's terrible. Like how how can you expect jay: These are like Tapas: I jay: business mistakes you wanna avoid in the beginning. I would rather as a coach Tapas: Absolutely, jay: much rather make a mistake, tell my client, like, hey, listen, this was not the move. Right? Pranav: Yeah. jay: Like, like I I'll share open out out loud now, like in terms of like again Tapos, like Sunai's bench stuff, right? We just tried something out and I was like, I wanna Tapas: Yeah. Yeah. jay: try this out, and I was like, but this is now an educated guess based on prior data. Now it works. Tapas: Yeah. jay: And like if you remove critical thinking, it's a big, big, bad move in my opinion. Tapas: using AI in terms in like coaching and programming that's got to be one of the most stupid things to do. Yes. I was going to. Pranav: That's a crime. They need to they need to they need to criminalize that shit, put these people behind execute them, man, come on. Tapas: Because like even yeah, we make a lot of mistakes and like sometimes yeah, I understand like even I say that at all. You can just say it. You're like, okay, I, I, there's Pranav: Yeah, come on. Tapas: this, I need to learn this. Okay. But it's my job to figure it out for you and I'm going to do jay: Yeah. Tapas: it. It should have been like, okay, Pranav: That's awful, yeah. Tapas: so like, how do I do this for my client? And then it gives you some bullshit. And then you paste that on. Pranav: They copy jay: Yeah. Pranav: they don't even remove the quotations, man. Like I've seen those. How how would you do that? Like, come on. Tapas: Yeah. Pranav: You can't even control C, control V properly. Like that. That that's the that's the level of effort and people start putting into, you know, making things. jay: Yeah, yeah. Pranav: I mean, it's it's pretty scary when you think about it. Like it takes away the desire jay: And and and now we'll show Pranav: to like do anything, right? jay: Yeah. And and the thing is like it it kind of fundamentally removes like the most critical of human things of like actually problem solving something. Right? Pranav: Yeah. Tapas: Hmm. jay: and as Pranav and I are like fans of Warhammer, we both know like what happens when you rely on AI for too long, right? It never ends up well, right? Right. Right. Pranav: yeah, we do, we know that. We know that a little too well. Yeah. jay: So like yeah, i i it's just that. It's in my opinion, it's like the ecosystem will have like yeah, go ahead. Sorry. Tapas: I have feeling that the demand for actual experts or people who actually use their brains still is going to be significantly higher in the future. Just because everybody. Pranav: Yeah, I have a feeling it's gonna this is like a bubble. At some point of time it's probably gonna jay: Yeah, yeah. Pranav: like like burst. jay: I I know this is like not like f fitness related aspect, but I have like friends like who kinda tell that, you know, like in the beginning AI was supposed to replace like early like early stage like engineers in this coun computer science sector. But now the problem is like the two AI systems are too expensive to maintain. You'd much rather pay. Like coaching in my opinion, coaching is the same thing, man. Like 'cause I just don't think when you kinda monitor a client for long enough, you will see patterns and no way AI like there's no chance AI in my opinion. Tapas: Hmm. jay: There's no chance that you can cut a corner around someone telling you I feel Kaushal Sumedh: Yeah. jay: this is like Kaushul. There's no way AI is gonna like commit someone to just say like on the last week, actually don't be like a coward about this thing, right? There's no way, there's no chance. Kaushal Sumedh: Yeah. It's always gonna just give you what you input. No, that's what people don't understand. You're just inputting something jay: Exactly. Tapas: It just throws it back to you. Kaushal Sumedh: and it just gives you back it just throws it back to you. So you're you're you're more or less in the same like it just tells you kind of what you want to hear for the most part. jay: Yeah. You can justify the ten by ten set at RP ten dude. Like it'll ill Tapas: Yeah. jay: it'll justify it for you. Tapas: I don't know if you guys have seen those memes, like a person jay: Yeah, yeah. Tapas: asks the AI, like, take off a color and then it's like, yeah. And then it's like, what's the color purple? It says, yeah. And then you look at the thinking process, it thinking about pink. jay: Yeah. Like no, i i it's just the fact is like whenever you're creating a brand I it's just my personal opinion. Like this is my last say on the AI thing on my end. Whenever you're kinda creating it, put a human spin on it, right? People are not attracted to what yeah. Yeah, just o honestly. Pranav: Just don't use it. Don't do not do not use AI for anything creative. Just don't jay: Yeah. Pranav: do it. That's it. Like you should shouldn't do it. Don't like have some respect for your audience and for your customer. Tapas: Like that is our stance here at jay: Yeah. Tapas: our podcast and at SEEDS. This is our stance on AI. jay: Yeah, Pranav: Yeah. jay: like we have seen Terminator total. Pranav: I will never use AI. May we we might we might utilize it for like inventory control or if we don't even use it there. jay: Yeah. Pranav: But like if I were to use it, then that's probably the only place I'd use it for. But I wouldn't even do that. I'd rather just hire someone, you know? I'd rather just give someone a job. Get a job instead of using AI. jay: Yeah, it's like operations optimization, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. on on that note on my end, like right, like I I'm very happy with the fact that we had this conversation because like I think it's kind of important Tapas: Yeah, yeah, definitely. jay: for us to kind of understand the ecosystem as a whole and how I will still say this as much as coaching can help, access to equipment is gonna be equally important. All right. Access towards like an environment, like I think this kind of an episode is where like if you're a gym owner, you should kind of pick up something from here. If you're like a coach, there are things that you can pick up here. I think if you're someone that wants to get into the manufacturing sector, there are things that you can clearly pick out of here, right? It's it's it's an inter Connected space, it's a growing space. There are always caveats. If you can find an entry point into something in all aspects, it's gonna be easy. It's there. The only thing that requires is that critical thinking, right? Don't rely on AI. Yeah. Yeah. Pranav: Again for y'all coaches, right? Tapas: Yeah. Pranav: for your clients you're training like outside. they got like a home or they got like a smaller space or as a coach if you wanna set up like a PT studio, I think that is our niche. Like we can we can serve you Tapas: Hmm Pranav: better than any other other brand jay: Yeah. Yeah. Pranav: 'cause we've got things that can you make full like use of yeah, like Tapas: Utilize page perfectly. Yeah. Pranav: efficiently utilize like a small space. Like Truly multifunctional pieces of equipment, not jay: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yep. Pranav: not like a multi gym, like something that which actually works, right? So yeah. Kaushal Sumedh: Yeah. jay: We should start a campaign called the multi gem killer, dude. Like honestly. Like it's just the whole objective is like get those things up. Yeah. Yeah. Pranav: Yeah. I mean that's that's what the commander essentially is, man. You know, as a coach, like when you're like setting up a space for like your client, then like that's pretty much all you need. jay: Yeah, and the commander's gonna be very who like I have guys who are like powerlifters who use it, but I have guys who are like combat athletes that also use it. So like in my opinion, it is not for powerlifting, it's for strength training. Strength training is Tapas: Very versatile, yeah. jay: central and integral to like gen pop athletes. It can be for anyone. It's gonna be something that you absolutely need. Tapas: 100 % yeah. Pranav: I mean again, like this is again all thanks to you guys or guys like you, like who I collect all my inputs from. you know, you guys allow me to make these sorts of products. Cause without that input, it's it's difficult for like one man to like design and make everything. Cause we have a very small limited team when jay: Yeah. Pranav: it comes to the actual designing aspect of it, right? It's pretty much me doing all the work. you know, from conceptualizing the product and then I have people who do the actual the blueprints or drawings for the laser cutting and all the other industrial work. But yeah the conceptualization that's where like all of your inputs like it just it's gold. Yeah. So thanks a lot guys. Especially caution. You know, I've been taking inputs from him for from like a long time. Kaushal Sumedh: Yeah. Been a while actually since we started to talk to Pranav: Yeah. Kaushal Sumedh: each other about stuff. Pranav: I didn't didn't Korshal recommend Jay Shankar a siege? Kaushal Sumedh: Yeah. siege is one thing like you know you might find something similar quality-wise, maybe if you want, if you look enough, but I would always tell them like support is like nothing, nothing comes close to jay: Yeah, second or not, yeah. Kaushal Sumedh: that kind. That that's what I used to tell every single person. jay: And I've experienced that. Like I I have actual direct experience. Pranav: Yeah, that's that's something that we yeah, 'cause yeah, 'cause I I I I won't be ashamed to admit, like sometimes something can go wrong, right? it can Kaushal Sumedh: Yeah yeah, of course. Pranav: go wrong. So but that doesn't mean we'll ever leave anyone tw twisting in the wind. So Kaushal Sumedh: Yeah. Tapas: Alright. jay: Let's Like I as as always, as we Pranav: All right, I think this was a jay: exit the podcast, I have to mention this one thing. If you've made it this far, you have access to Stopas's like credit card details. He will be sharing it. Just just DM him. Don't be don't be shy. Like some of you guys s some of you guys are shy. Tapas: No, no, no, you do not, you do. Dude, I've had dudes DMing me, dude, you can't be doing that anymore. Pranav: Yeah. jay: Just get his cr financial data. It's very easy. Just ask him, DM him. But yeah, one of like wanna say a big thank you, not just for coming on the show, but for like the support for the show as well. Right. Like when we were like just starting out Yuri study told us like this is something you kinda believe in. So like we really, really do appreciate that thing, man. Yeah. You know, compelling me to get Pranav: Yeah. Thanks guys, thanks a lot. jay: you get a laptop that works. That was like very important. Tapas: Yeah jay: Like, you know. 'Cause like the I'm I'm gonna get a new one. It looks like Pranav: Is this your laptop? Bruh. Tapas: Yeah. jay: I'm in heaven at this moment. it kinda looks like I died like, you know. But Pranav: Yeah. Like a halo behind you. jay: exactly. Tapas: Yeah. jay: Like I'm I'm gonna upgrade myself, but like thank you for your time, dog. Like and and your support. And I Pranav: Hey, no worries man. Like it's it was a pleasure. It was a pleasure. I'm so glad that this thing really took off. So it's it's great. Yeah. Tapas: People absolutely like love it for now. Like till now whatever we've done. No, no, I said till now. I meant to say till now. Okay, stop. Yeah. jay: Yeah, for now. Give out your credit card details. Pranav: No, it's not gonna I I feel it's just gonna get better and better, right? jay: Yeah. Pranav: Let's let's see, let's figure out a way to like make a studio where we can like yeah. Tapas: And absolutely, thank you jay: Yeah. Tapas: like for everything that you've done for the podcast and everything. Pranav: No worries man. Just don't share my credit card details. Tapas: Yeah, I'll try not to. I'll try my best. I'll try my best. jay: They share your credit card details. That's that's the one thing. Okay guys, see y'all. Like love you. Bye bye. Touch some grass. You know, talk to your loved ones. Bye bye. Kaushal Sumedh: All right. Bye bye. Pranav: All right. That was fun, man. That was actually fun. Tapas: And yeah, yeah, bye bye.