Latest / The Dr. Psych Mom Show with clinical psychologist Dr. Samantha Rodman Whiten / "The More Partners A Woman Has, The Less Special She Thinks Sex Is!"

Transcript

"The More Partners A Woman Has, The Less Special She Thinks Sex Is!" · The Dr. Psych Mom Show with clinical psychologist Dr. Samantha Rodman Whiten

• 0:05
  Hi everybody and welcome to the Doctor Psych Mom Show.
• 0:08
  Today I'm going to talk about this statement that I heard on
• 0:12
  my Facebook page, and it's a comment that I get frequently
• 0:16
  from guys that say that while I say, of course, as you know that
• 0:22
  if a woman does not like sex before you, then she's not
• 0:26
  probably going to like sex after you.
• 0:28
  And meaning that if a woman has had very limited prior sexual
• 0:32
  experience Despite that, it may make you feel good to be her
• 0:35
  first or to be her second or whatever, you know, you got to
• 0:39
  think about why she's not had any, you know, experience.
• 0:43
  And and either it's because she was raised in in a kind of sex
• 0:46
  negative culture that told her to repudiate her sexuality at
• 0:51
  least before marriage. And of course, it's very hard to
• 0:53
  turn that spigot back on after you've turned it off or because
• 0:57
  she doesn't really like sex. And then how the hell is she
• 0:59
  going to like it with you, especially after the honeymoon
• 1:01
  stage. Right.
• 1:02
  So And we will get to that in a second, right after I tell you
• 1:05
  to subscribe my most recent subscriber episode.
• 1:09
  Let us see. I know it was good.
• 1:12
  Good how to repair after marital coercion and what coercion is
• 1:17
  and isn't another hot topic anyway.
• 1:20
  So back to this. The more partners a woman has,
• 1:23
  the less special she thinks it is.
• 1:24
  So there was this article on Prairie voles and people tried
• 1:28
  to move it into the realm of humans that said that, like, the
• 1:31
  more people you have sex with, the less likely you are to bond
• 1:34
  with somebody. That's just bullshit.
• 1:36
  Oxytocin is not just in women, it's in men and women.
• 1:40
  It's a bonding hormone, and men bond just as much after sex as
• 1:44
  women do, and women bond just as little as men do.
• 1:47
  It's all based on the individual, you know, person and
• 1:51
  the sex and all sorts of things. You know, That's interesting
• 1:55
  because guys grow up thinking that of course they are going to
• 2:00
  relish their early sexual experiences and then later they
• 2:03
  may marry a woman that they love.
• 2:05
  And never does it occur to them that if they sleep with a whole
• 2:08
  bunch of women that they wouldn't be able to fall in
• 2:10
  love. Guess what?
• 2:13
  Women are people too, obviously. And they're the same way.
• 2:18
  You could have sex with a whole bunch of guys in your, you know,
• 2:22
  college and 20s and whatever. And then you find somebody that
• 2:26
  you love. And then they cite this other
• 2:28
  study, which when you look at it, it's really funny because it
• 2:31
  shows people say the more that this is used to say, the more
• 2:35
  partners you have than likely you are to get divorced.
• 2:38
  In fact, they showed that after 10 partners you were likelier to
• 2:41
  get divorced, but not as likely as with two, with two versus one
• 2:47
  was the most likely. So it was like a low rate at one
• 2:50
  partner, obviously, because these people are religious,
• 2:53
  right. And then, you know, and so
• 2:55
  they're not supposed to get divorced.
• 2:57
  Then as soon as you've had two, it like jumps up and they had
• 3:00
  all sorts of like cockamamie. The explanations in this
• 3:03
  article, like maybe just the presence of one other partner
• 3:06
  makes women realize that this there are options.
• 3:09
  But then it dropped again. It went up at 2:00, then it went
• 3:12
  down for 3456. All that stuff was kind of
• 3:16
  lower. And then it jumped up again at
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  10. So.
• 3:19
  And then when you looked into the study, the fine print, it
• 3:22
  said that it wasn't even statistically significant.
• 3:25
  The difference between 2:00 and 10:00.
• 3:26
  Anyway. So all that we know from this
• 3:29
  study, that is, I assume the origin of why people say this
• 3:32
  statistic is that people who only have one sexual partner are
• 3:36
  less likely to get divorced. Know shit, You know they are
• 3:39
  religious people who are in very traditional cultures.
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  Those are the people who stay virgins until they marry.
• 3:44
  And only today, in today's day and age, those are the people
• 3:47
  who don't have, you know, other partners is people who wait to
• 3:50
  have sex until marriage. And those people are religious.
• 3:53
  And religion at that level really looks down upon divorce.
• 3:57
  So, you know, obviously it's just a proxy variable, really.
• 4:01
  So anyway, but what about this bonding thing?
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  Guys who are very insecure, They like the idea that if a woman
• 4:08
  has no comparison points and she can't ever leave him because she
• 4:11
  won't know that, she could have any options.
• 4:13
  Can you imagine taking this rationale if you were going to
• 4:16
  hire somebody, You know, you're going to hire a nanny for your
• 4:19
  kids and you say, listen, I want somebody who's no experience,
• 4:21
  preferably she's never even seen a child before.
• 4:24
  We're going to take her in and then we know she can't leave our
• 4:26
  children. Also, she might kill them, you
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  know, though, because she's had no fucking experience with
• 4:30
  children, Right? So think right you You don't
• 4:33
  want to engage with somebody and anything that's important to
• 4:37
  you. If they have no other options.
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  Them having no other options or thinking that they have no other
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  options means they are either like kind of shitty at whatever
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  The thing is or they have really low self esteem.
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  So if a woman thinks that she has no other options, that
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  doesn't mean she's a happy, healthy person.
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  She's a person who feels stuck and trapped and low self esteem
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  about herself, right? And also, and here's like
• 5:02
  another thing, when women haven't had sex with their exes,
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  or even when they haven't even had any exes, they've only had
• 5:09
  crushes, they still can idealize those people and perceive them
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  as potential options. Alternatives.
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  Rather, to the guy that they're with, people idealize other
• 5:20
  people all the time. People want people fantasize
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  about people that they don't have sex with constantly,
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  possibly more than the people that they have had sex with
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  because they haven't had sex with them yet.
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  Women that haven't ever had sex before their husband.
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  If they don't like sex, they think it's because of their
• 5:35
  husband. They don't realize it's because
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  they were raised sex negative, this that the other they were.
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  They assume that the man knows what the fuck he's doing so that
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  if they don't like sex, it's due to him.
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  And I see these women all the time in my office, They think
• 5:47
  something's wrong with the dude because he cannot make her have
• 5:51
  an orgasm. She was told never to touch
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  herself, never to be a bad girl, never to explore, never
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  certainly never to have sex with anybody else.
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  So if her body doesn't function in the ways that, you know, she
• 6:01
  perceives in romantic comedies and, you know, romantic novels,
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  then she assumes that it's his fault.
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  Had she only had a few other boyfriends, she might have
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  learned about herself differently and realize that,
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  you know, she's got to engage in in it as well, in whatever she's
• 6:18
  doing and and be instructive and and teach him what to do.
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  But of course, she's not going to know that if she's never had
• 6:24
  sex before, there's a window. Like with anything.
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  I've never, never, never I. And you know, I try to go back
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  and say, is it really? Never let me think.
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  Never met a man who regretted having sex before marriage.
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  I've never met that. I now let me think.
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  I have never met a woman who regretted having sex before
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  marriage. Now, you could say these people
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  are sex positive, they're coming into you.
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  They're not all sex positive, many of them getting dragged
• 6:53
  into me by a husband or a wife, usually a husband who wants to
• 6:57
  be having more sex. But when I'm thinking about it,
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  I don't think anybody regrets not having sex before marriage,
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  except in only the most romantic sense that you think, oh, I when
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  you're in your honeymoon stage, you say, oh, I wish I could have
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  only have been with you. Nobody means that they like the
• 7:11
  sex that they were having. Or, of course, in the
• 7:13
  unfortunate case that something happened and they were molested
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  or abused or, you know, it was a rape.
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  I mean, terrible things, right? In those cases, obviously,
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  people regret those experience. I'm not even talking about that.
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  I'm saying in the case of consensual premarital sex,
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  particularly in the context of a relationship, I have never heard
• 7:32
  somebody say, man, I just wish that I never had sex with my
• 7:35
  high school sweetheart. I just wish that prom night we
• 7:38
  just wouldn't have had sex. Unless of course the guy turns
• 7:41
  out to be like a super huge asshole or something, you know?
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  But in the case that the sex and the relationship were good,
• 7:47
  which is most people, most things, then you know, people
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  like doing it. And every time you sleep with
• 7:54
  somebody, teaches you something about yourself.
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  I think it's so funny when the guy say it's sex isn't special
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  if she's done it with a lot of people.
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  So she should say, you know what?
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  Sex also isn't special when we do it too much, really, at once
• 8:07
  a month, we're both yearning for it so much.
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  It's the most romantic, magical union of souls.
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  If we do it more than once a month, though, it really, you
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  know, loses its edge. That should be the appropriate
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  response because if something is fun and good and you like it,
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  don't you want to do it? I mean, it would be like saying,
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  and I said this in one of my videos that I did on this topic,
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  it would be like saying it really, you know, it wasn't
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  special for the ex football player to play in the Super
• 8:33
  Bowl. It wasn't special for him
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  because he had played so much football before, get played so
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  many games that, you know, the Super Bowl really wasn't
• 8:40
  anything for him. No, the Super Bowl would be the
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  equivalent of married sex with your, you know, soul mate, how
• 8:47
  people feel in the honeymoon stage, you know that this is the
• 8:50
  love of their life and the person they're going to marry
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  and they're having sex with them, but how the hell, why does
• 8:54
  that have anything to do with the sex that they've had before?
• 8:57
  It doesn't have anything to do with it except you're better at
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  it, just like Tom Brady. See, there, I thought of a
• 9:02
  football player. I don't think he plays anymore,
• 9:05
  does he? Oh, who cares.
• 9:06
  But anyway, Tom Brady, I know he's probably in the Super Bowl
• 9:09
  since I've heard his name and I know nobody.
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  Then it's got to be, you know, special for him to be in the
• 9:15
  Super Bowl, even if he's played a whole bunch of football.
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  Right, Because it's a Super Bowl.
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  So it was probably also very he probably also slept with a lot
• 9:24
  of women, but it was still, you know, great another Super Bowl
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  for him to sleep with Gazelle or whoever supermodel he used to be
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  with. Also, it doesn't stop you from
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  bonding. It doesn't stop you from bonding
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  with your second child to have bonded with your first child.
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  I mean, it just doesn't make any sense.
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  People are able to bond with other humans.
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  We are bondable creatures. We don't have a finite amount of
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  bonding to do, otherwise. Nobody would love their second
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  or third child, right? But you still do.
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  So it what this is, is it reminds me always when guys say
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  this of that show and book You You by Carolyn Kipnis Kipnis.
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  And it's the Netflix show based on the book also where the main
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  character is this guy who experienced, you know, a bad
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  child and he becomes obsessed with women.
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  And basically he tries to, you know, do what what these guys
• 10:19
  really secretly wish for, which is to give these women no other
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  options to like trap them and basically make manipulate them,
• 10:27
  stalk them, become whatever it is that they want the perfect
• 10:32
  man that they want. And basically kind of give them
• 10:35
  no other options but to be with him.
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  And that isn't real. And it doesn't work out for
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  people. You know, The Collector by John
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  Fowles. Like, literally, the guy traps
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  the woman in like his house and she becomes his prisoner.
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  He's giving her no other options, right?
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  They can only be together themselves in this romantic
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  union in which he's so romantic that he doesn't even want sex
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  with her. If you haven't read that book,
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  it's a classic. But anyway, the point being, do
• 11:04
  not ever let yourself go down this crazy rabbit hole that your
• 11:07
  sex life is somehow worse because your partner had sex.
• 11:11
  There's a couple guys say, Oh yeah, I was always comparing
• 11:13
  myself to her exes. That sounds like a you problem,
• 11:17
  you know, Because think about it, the inverse.
• 11:20
  What if a woman was always comparing herself to the man's
• 11:22
  exes? I have never, ever heard a man
• 11:25
  turn around and say, you know what?
• 11:27
  It's the same for men and women. Instead, somehow, women
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  uniquely, are supposed to be impacted, and their bonding is
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  supposed to be uniquely impaired.
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  No, that's only because the guys are insecure about their ability
• 11:38
  to live up to whatever she was doing with her ex.
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  But the guy would be insecure even if she was in love with
• 11:44
  somebody from afar. Even if she looked at the
• 11:47
  Walmart cashier for a be too long.
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  There's no helping insecurity, you know, and the most
• 11:54
  openminded and sexually playful and experimenting and fun sex,
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  sex. People who think that sex is fun
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  tend to incorporate fantasies, you know, They ask about dirty
• 12:05
  stories from the people's past and exes and and what you did
• 12:09
  with who. These are people who are
• 12:10
  confident with their own experiences, with their bodies,
• 12:13
  with their sexuality and and all information is good information.
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  Frequently people are so shocked if they've been raised so
• 12:20
  differently. They're like, oh, I would never,
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  ever talk about X's. Never ever.
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  I would get too upset. That's called experiential
• 12:27
  avoidance in the in the psychology literature, fear of
• 12:32
  negative emotion. Fear of negative emotion is
• 12:35
  associated with a host of terrible mental health outcomes,
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  including anxiety, depression, PTSD, etcetera.
• 12:42
  It's not good in any domain. If you're scared to hear your
• 12:45
  spouse say something because you might feel a negative emotion,
• 12:48
  that's probably something that you take into other aspects of
• 12:51
  your life as well, right? You know you, you're scared to
• 12:54
  watch some things. It might trigger you.
• 12:56
  You're scared to read some things.
• 12:57
  It might upset you. You're scared to go too deep in
• 13:00
  a conversation because you might feel off balance.
• 13:02
  You're you may be scared of therapy because you don't
• 13:05
  exactly know what the therapist going to say, what they're going
• 13:07
  to uncover, what interpretation they're going to make.
• 13:09
  You know, maybe somebody will say something about your family
• 13:12
  that you weren't expecting. You don't want to think about
• 13:13
  that, don't want to talk about it, and you don't want to think
• 13:16
  about things when you don't want to feel things.
• 13:19
  That's associated with being raised in a negative, scared,
• 13:23
  anxious home. You know, where people were
• 13:26
  scared of, of beliefs, scared of ideas.
• 13:29
  There's only one way to think, one way to feel, and that does
• 13:32
  not give you an open minded, fun, open, loving, connected
• 13:37
  relationship. You know what Fear is?
• 13:41
  The death of intimacy. If you want intimacy, then you
• 13:43
  want to get outside your comfort zone.
• 13:45
  You, you want to explore new places mentally and physically
• 13:49
  with your partner. So if you're scared of thoughts,
• 13:51
  if you're scared of of the thought that your partner might
• 13:54
  ever compare you to somebody else, that is something that you
• 13:58
  could go into therapy for. That's where all these young men
• 14:00
  should be that are scared that they're, you know, potential
• 14:03
  mates are going to have slept with somebody else.
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  God forbid. You know, those guys are all
• 14:08
  going to be in my office in 10 years, you know, or those of
• 14:13
  other therapists with women who hate sex, you know, because
• 14:17
  that's that's who doesn't have sex.
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  Predominantly. It's people who were taught to
• 14:21
  be sex negative and people who had bad experiences and people
• 14:24
  who don't like it and they can't see the forest for the trees.
• 14:28
  And so they're they're making short term decisions based on, I
• 14:31
  don't want to feel anxious, I don't ever want to feel
• 14:33
  compared. But believe me, she could
• 14:36
  compare you more in her head than she could with any real
• 14:39
  world experience, you know? And also the fact that there
• 14:43
  would be an increased rate of divorce in and of itself is is
• 14:47
  not a bad thing because that sometimes you should get
• 14:52
  divorced, right? I mean, there's plenty of people
• 14:55
  who are in religious marriages that they can't or they feel
• 14:59
  that socially they cannot get divorced, but they're not happy
• 15:02
  at all and they're even in abusive marriages and they just
• 15:05
  won't get out because they're not supposed to do something
• 15:07
  bad, like at a divorce. So it's not bad to think that
• 15:11
  you have options so that you're not trapped in in in your life,
• 15:14
  you know? And so it it there's just so
• 15:16
  much to think about on this topic.
• 15:18
  And And if you've ever found yourself dealing with a spouse
• 15:21
  who who says these sorts of things is sorts of closeminded
• 15:25
  things about women or if you, in fact you're a man that's found
• 15:28
  yourself thinking, well, you know, it's the reason that I'm
• 15:32
  so preoccupied attachment is because my wife slept with too
• 15:34
  many people. No, no, it's not.
• 15:37
  That's not the thing. Now you could say, but but when
• 15:40
  does it end? What if a woman slept with, like
• 15:41
  1000 people? Well, shit, that sounds like an
• 15:45
  addictive problem. Exactly the same as I would say
• 15:47
  if a man slept with 1000 women. That sounds like what percent of
• 15:52
  your life are you giving over to sex?
• 15:54
  I mean, you know, like there was also some dude, you know, on my
• 15:57
  Facebook that says, you know, I got to have sex three times a
• 16:00
  day or I'm unhappy every times a day.
• 16:03
  Can you have a job? I mean, come on, man.
• 16:06
  You know, so sometimes I get those topics where it's like,
• 16:08
  man, you know, you sound like actually a sex addict.
• 16:12
  Somebody who says that I cannot be in a relationship because I
• 16:14
  have to have sex 3-4 five times a day.
• 16:17
  No, that that isn't good. It's having, like 1000 casual
• 16:20
  sex partners. Sounds like that was an
• 16:23
  obsession. It sounds like that was your
• 16:25
  main thing that you were doing. So no, that's not good.
• 16:29
  But ten over over how many years are we talking?
• 16:31
  Really? What's so interesting about
• 16:33
  this? And it's not just a sexual
• 16:35
  partners thing, It's because most people had sex within
• 16:39
  monogamy, right? They have sex within.
• 16:41
  So it doesn't have to be marriage.
• 16:43
  But like the average person will have like a few relationships
• 16:46
  and that's where they get their sexual experience.
• 16:48
  So if you don't even want somebody who's had sex, then
• 16:50
  you're also saying that you don't want somebody really,
• 16:53
  who's been in any sort of intimate relationship.
• 16:55
  So they don't have practice at either one.
• 16:57
  They don't have practice at sex. And they don't have practice at
• 17:00
  intimate relationships either, you know.
• 17:03
  And so then how do you think that's going to go when you
• 17:05
  start being married to that? They you don't even, they don't
• 17:08
  even know if they like into the relationships.
• 17:10
  They've never even really had one.
• 17:12
  So they may well not like it at all.
• 17:14
  And then that sucks for you. It's like, you know, my my
• 17:17
  analogy that I've used in some other video, which was if you're
• 17:20
  hiring a secretary, would you hire a secretary who's never
• 17:24
  seen a computer, never, you know, done any sort of
• 17:27
  administrative work, And then before you even see what you
• 17:31
  could do, you sign a contract that says that you have to
• 17:33
  employ her forever. That's what marriage is to
• 17:36
  somebody who's never had sex. And so you can't imagine what
• 17:39
  the hell the sex life is going to be like.
• 17:41
  And sex is a big part of marriage, as I think most of you
• 17:44
  are aware. I feel given my podcasts and my
• 17:47
  posts and all my stuff. So anyway that is what I think
• 17:50
  about the topic and I thought hope you find it interesting and
• 17:54
  worthy of listening. And please do subscribe only 899
• 17:59
  a month for 130 plus episodes, most of which are at least 15
• 18:03
  minutes. That is a lot of listening for
• 18:05
  you people that like to listen. And always please join my
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• 18:15
  myself and all of my followers. I have like over 404 hundred
• 18:20
  something people in there now. Like 412 or something.
• 18:23
  There's a lot of people in there.
• 18:24
  All right, I'll talk to everybody soon.
• 18:26
  Have a great day, guys. Bye.
• 18:27
  Bye. Oh, and PSI forgot when I was
• 18:32
  doing this description that I had promised you guys a parallel
• 18:35
  in an anecdote for my own childhood.
• 18:37
  And it is this. When I was young, my mother
• 18:41
  taught me to read before kindergarten, but very young and
• 18:46
  not a surprise I'm sure to you guys since you see how prolific
• 18:49
  I am and how much I write and read now.
• 18:52
  But anyway, so I got into, I think it was preschool or
• 18:56
  something, and the teacher told me, this older woman, she said
• 19:00
  that I it was so unfortunate that I already knew how to read
• 19:04
  because I wasn't going to be creative like the other
• 19:06
  children. The other children had to look
• 19:07
  at the book and make up stories for themselves.
• 19:10
  And because I had already learned how to read, I was not
• 19:13
  going to be creative. Now that is obviously quite a
• 19:17
  stupid statement, you know? And why?
• 19:20
  Because I mean, shit, you could read so much.
• 19:22
  If you know how to read, that is hardly the death of creativity.
• 19:26
  You could read all sorts of shit.
• 19:28
  And I was writing and reading and I wrote my own novel and all
• 19:31
  these things when I was a little kid.
• 19:33
  And you know, I was very creative.
• 19:35
  And it's like I was certainly not hindered by the ability to
• 19:39
  consume actual books and stories, right?
• 19:42
  So that really reminds me. It's really analogous to this
• 19:46
  idea that if a woman knows about sex and is skilled at sex and
• 19:52
  has learned about her body, she is somehow going to be less able
• 19:56
  to enjoy sex within marriage, How she's learned more.
• 20:00
  She's ahead of the game. She will be able to bring that
• 20:04
  same sexual skill into the marriage.
• 20:07
  And of course, learn more. Everybody's different about that
• 20:09
  individual person and you know what they like and how they,
• 20:14
  their own dynamic is in bed and so forth.
• 20:17
  But thinking that having more skill.
• 20:20
  Makes You Worse Off is some sort of fiction, and it really puts
• 20:25
  on the pedestal this idea of of of childlike innocence, almost
• 20:29
  in the Garden of Eden. Can't support childhood, can't
• 20:32
  read, but just makes up stories. A woman who, you know, never had
• 20:37
  sex at all, but then just bounds into her husband's arms naked on
• 20:41
  the wedding night with a big smile, Excited to learn this
• 20:45
  shit is fiction. It's just fiction.
• 20:47
  And it comes from just this, you know, fetishization of innocence
• 20:51
  that is was stupid when the woman said it to me when I was
• 20:54
  young, and is equivalently stupid when men say it about
• 20:57
  women now. All right, In case anybody had
• 21:00
  tuned in purely for that anecdote, now you have it that
• 21:03
  I'll talk to everybody soon. Bye guys.