Latest / The Science of Skin / Your Skin Has a Clock: Circadian Rhythms, Aging & Chrono Skincare

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Your Skin Has a Clock: Circadian Rhythms, Aging & Chrono Skincare · The Science of Skin

• 0:08
  SPEAKER_01: Hi, I'm Dr.
• 0:09
  SPEAKER_01: Patty Ferris.
• 0:10
  SPEAKER_01: I'm a board certified dermatologist, and I'm your host for this episode of the Science of Skin podcast.
• 0:16
  SPEAKER_01: I am super excited today to have Dr.
• 0:19
  SPEAKER_01: Ava Shambam with me.
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_01: She's going to be talking about a subject that I know you guys are going to find totally fascinating because I do.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_01: But let me read a little bit of her bio because she's quite accomplished.
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_01: And if you don't know her, then you need to hear a little bit about her.
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_01: She's a California native.
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_01: She graduated Magnum cum laude from Harvard University.
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_01: Why does that not surprise me?
• 0:39
  SPEAKER_01: Because you're super smart.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_01: She's got a medical degree at Case Western Reserve.
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_01: She's the founder of Ava MD Dermatology and also runs Ava T Shambaum Research Center.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_01: She's done tons of clinical trials, many of the pivotal trials, particularly on cosmetic procedures.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_01: She's a big-time injector.
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_01: If I was going to do my lips, I would have her do my lips.
• 1:01
  SPEAKER_01: And also she is on the faculty at UCLA Geffen School of Medicine.
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_01: So she has an academic appointment as well.
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_01: She's written a book, The Heal Your Skin, The Breakthrough Plan for Renewal.
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_01: And she's a regular contributor on all kinds of cool shows because she's an LA-based doctor, especially the doctors and extreme makeover.
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_01: She also launched a skincare line called Lthea.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_01: And this is really going to bring us to the subject that we're going to talk about today, which is Circadian rhythms.
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_01: But before I welcome Ava, I just want to say, first of all, thanks to our audience.
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_01: We have an incredibly loyal audience.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_01: And for those of you who are listening, if you would give us a review, we'd be so grateful and subscribe to the Science of Skin podcast.
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_01: We really appreciate it.
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_01: So, Dr.
• 1:47
  SPEAKER_01: Ava, welcome.
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much, Patty.
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_00: It's like it's uh such a pleasure to be here with you.
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_00: And I just think it's fantastic what you've done to really propel forward more science-based skincare because I think that people really need skin care, as we understand.
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_00: And I mean for the overall health and longevity of your skin.
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that it's really important that you that people get their information from well-trained, informed hosts, you know, and not just like off the internet.
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_01: So you're so right.
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_01: You said two big buzzwords right there: skin health and longevity.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_01: And that kind of brings us into circadian rhythms.
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, first of all, Ava, how did you even get interested in that subject?
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_01: It's so uh very cutting edge.
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_00: Well, it's really it's well, I'll tell you, I heard a lecture about um eight years ago about the presence of opsins in the skin.
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_00: So options are the those are the molecules that are also in the back of your eye and they're light sensitive.
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_00: And so I thought, why the heck are there options?
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_00: Why are there light sensitive molecules in the skin?
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, one thing we know about our body is it's very conservative, it's not going to waste any energy or resources in terms of making something that's not useful.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_00: So looking into what's the purpose of them, that sort of led me to circadian rhythm.
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_00: Of course, one of the purposes is that they sit in the melanocytes, and so they're there.
• 3:19
  SPEAKER_00: So the melanocytes can directly sense light and make more melanin.
• 3:23
  SPEAKER_00: But as it turns out, they're extremely important to the peripheral circadian clog.
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_00: So that was one thing.
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_00: And then I started learning about how night shift workers, people whose circadian rhythm were completely off, they had higher rates of death from cancer, inflammatory disease, and heart disease.
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_00: And so I thought, wow, there's something here that people just weren't really talking about.
• 3:49
  SPEAKER_00: So interesting.
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_00: So tell us a little bit about what these rhythms do in the skin.
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_00: Well, before I get to the skin, I have to introduce the whole like what is circadian rhythm and where does it start?
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_00: So it turns out that centrally, well, first of all, circadian rhythm, which is basically a diurnal variation.
• 4:09
  SPEAKER_00: So you have changes that occur through a 24-hour cycle, right?
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_00: Because that's how long the day, the day, and the night is.
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_00: So it turns out that it is present in all four kingdoms of life.
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_00: So when I say kingdoms, those are that's the very top of the of the ladder.
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_00: So you have animals, plants, you have cells with nuclei, so that would be like amoebas, and then you have um cells that don't have nuclei.
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_00: And so across everything, every living, every living cell in the planet, there's a 24-hour cycle.
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_00: So that shows how important this is to survival.
• 4:51
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so in humans, the circadian rhythm begins centrally.
• 4:56
  SPEAKER_00: So in the old part of our brain, in the thalamus, so that's the part of our brain that's the that is most conserved.
• 5:03
  SPEAKER_00: So it's in a place called the suprachiasmic nucleus.
• 5:07
  SPEAKER_00: Now, these cells also respond to light from your eyes, and then they send out signals throughout the body hormonally or through your nerves or both.
• 5:18
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so that's the central system.
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_00: Now, every cell in our body, every organ has its own circadian rhythm that's basically directed by the central one, but also exists on its own.
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_00: So in skin, it has been shown that every different type of cell in our skin.
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_00: So, for example, the fibroblasts that make the collagen, the melanocytes that make the pigment, the hair follicle, the keratinocytes that are formed, the epidermis, every single one has its own clock, its own circadian rhythm.
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_00: And there's communication because obviously the skin is your first, you know, is much more exposed than that depth of your brain.
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_00: So they both they both work together.
• 6:08
  SPEAKER_00: So it's really, you know, it's it's incredible when we look at the body how elegantly it is designed and how comprehensively it is designed.
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_00: And it's just us that screw it up, you know.
• 6:21
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm assuming because all of the cells in the skin apparently have their own barometer for the circadian rhythm, that it affects things like the barrier function and transepidermal water loss.
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_01: So you have diurnal variations in all of these skin functions, collagen production as well.
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_01: That's right.
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_00: That's correct.
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_00: And so what have so it to your point, yes, we have increased transepidermal water loss actually during the day, and it's better at night, and we have more lipid production, as you would expect, that changes it changes in a 24-hour cycle.
• 6:55
  SPEAKER_00: It also, and so, and so then then you think to yourself, okay, so the options are coordinating it, the central you're coordinating it, and then what exactly is the reason for the creation?
• 7:09
  SPEAKER_00: Why, why does it matter?
• 7:11
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, why does it matter?
• 7:12
  SPEAKER_00: Well, it turns out that what you want to have happen is separate metabolism, which can create these toxic molecules, the reactive oxygen species that can damage the cell.
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_00: You want to separate metabolism from DNA replication.
• 7:30
  SPEAKER_00: So that's the reason that it exists, because you don't want to damage your DNA.
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_00: It's a very practical, and that's why it exists across every single kingdom.
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, to why did I become interested?
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_00: Well, it became interested in the options, and then I learned about the clock genes.
• 7:47
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so where do the clock genes are?
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_00: Talk about clock genes because I kept looking about clock genes.
• 7:51
  SPEAKER_00: I know it turns out they're so important.
• 7:54
  SPEAKER_00: So clock genes are genes that basically they can they control 50% of your genome, they're hugely important, and so basically they do what you think they do, they turn different genes on during the day and they turn different genes on at night.
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_00: So why is this important?
• 8:15
  SPEAKER_00: Well, as overall, it's important for us to like eat during the day and not at night, because DNA replication actually turns out it starts like later in the afternoon.
• 8:27
  SPEAKER_00: Cell turnover really happens more at night.
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_00: And so you don't want to damage your cells that way, I mean, by eating at the incorrect times.
• 8:37
  SPEAKER_00: And they've actually shown that if you feed, this is in a pediatric setting, that if you feed um children like young children who are recovering from bone marrow transplants or in the in the um ICU, that if you feed them at night, they they're they take longer to get out of the ICU than if they just time the feeding because they're they can't swallow, so they're getting it IV, that they time the feeding to happen more during the day.
• 9:05
  SPEAKER_00: Isn't that interesting?
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so they're trying to influence the repair mechanisms and and when things happen.
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_01: It it is super interesting.
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_01: Talk about with skin aging, because I know your circadian, what are we gonna call it?
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_01: Like your feng shui or you know, your circadian rhythms, it they they start to become less effective as you get older.
• 9:27
  SPEAKER_01: So talk a little bit about skin aging and what's really going on here.
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_00: So what happens is like you know, like every other function in the cell, it can become kind of compromised with aging, is that you don't get you don't get as much, it's almost like they call it an oscillation where you have like a peak effect and then it goes down.
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_00: And so this sort of flattens out as you age.
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_00: So different functions of the skin are compromised.
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_00: So you have the ability to repair from damage because it turns out that these clock genes, they're also they control literally damage repair, they will turn on the enzymes that will that will snip out the damage in the DNA, and they will also um they so as you get older, these genes are do not have this this, they're not they're basically have a limited expression.
• 10:25
  SPEAKER_00: So instead of having like a large amount of peptides that are that are formed, it's a much smaller amount that happens.
• 10:33
  SPEAKER_00: So this contributes to decreased collagen production, to um inadequate repair of of damage to the cells.
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_00: And so that's what that's it's a it's actually a quite a significant contributor to skin aging, is is um disruption in the cell in the circadian rhythm.
• 10:54
  SPEAKER_00: And what's also really interesting, this is another way that we screw it up, is by all of our um exposure to ultraviolet light, to the blue light that comes off of your screens, that can screw up your circadian rhythm.
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_00: It's not just eating it, meeting it, eating, having a piece of pizza at midnight.
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_01: Which is why we're showing scroll at night when we wake up.
• 11:15
  SPEAKER_00: We shouldn't scroll.
• 11:16
  SPEAKER_00: That's right.
• 11:16
  SPEAKER_00: That's why you're saying guilty.
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, no, when you wake up at night, that's when you're supposed to be listening to your podcast.
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_00: That's when you put you tune into your podcast.
• 11:29
  SPEAKER_00: I totally should be, but I'm screaming.
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, well, you see, like this is this is the thing, like we were so we were so elegantly designed, and then all of a sudden, like modern life is completely ruined.
• 11:41
  SPEAKER_01: Well, exactly.
• 11:41
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's again, it's broken up that the cycle that the way it was designed to work.
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_00: So you can't just I think it's I think circadian rhythm is I mean, these are this is is so much about science that has just come to light.
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, that we're we're just starting to understand how perfectly designed we are.
• 12:01
  SPEAKER_00: And so, you know, so we were fine before we had electricity, you know.
• 12:06
  SPEAKER_00: We had a little firelight, you know, we like went to bed when we got better off, weren't we?
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_00: We got went to bed when it got dark, you know, got up when it got light, we exercised, we ate a lot of fruits and vegetables.
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_00: Anyway, so then we have light, we have processed foods, but I think that circadian rhythm screen time.
• 12:24
  SPEAKER_00: Screen time.
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_00: No, I think circadian rhythm is is going to be one of the key factors that we're going to be really addressing and supporting as um as we move through, you know, coming back in tune with ourselves.
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_01: And obviously it plays into skin longevities very significantly.
• 12:41
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I mean, even the immune system, even the so the the leukocytes hook to the immune system is completely tied to circadian rhythm.
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_00: In fact, in rats, there's more leukocytes that are available during the day to fight, you know, to fight infection.
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_00: It's interesting why it's during the day in rats, but in humans, they're more at night.
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_00: Isn't that interesting?
• 13:01
  SPEAKER_00: So, yeah, so that's why you probably like want to rest.
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_00: You want to go to bed early if you don't feel well.
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_01: So you took all this knowledge that you gathered over a period of time and you leveraged it in a skincare line.
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_01: So I was telling you before we started, I learned two interesting words chronocosmetics, which is what you developed, and you'll tell us all about it, and chronotherapy.
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_01: So therapies that are are guided by this diurnal, you know, chrono chrono clock that we have.
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_01: It's so interesting.
• 13:33
  SPEAKER_01: So how how did you do it?
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_01: You synced it with the clock genes, from what I understand.
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_01: So tell tell us about it.
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so the clock, so the clock genes, so it's a it's a number of different genes.
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_00: And as I said, they control their a switch that turns things on and off.
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_00: It's a master, it's almost like a conductor.
• 13:51
  SPEAKER_00: You've got the orchestra and you have the conductor saying, okay, time for the winds, you know, pointing to all the different divisions.
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_00: And so um, so what I realized was that there's a lot of, you know, there's just a lot of skin care out there.
• 14:05
  SPEAKER_00: And it's like, okay, you're gonna throw this on, you're gonna throw this on at that time of day, you know, when when do you put a peptide, when do you put a peptide on, when you put an axe antioxidant.
• 14:14
  SPEAKER_00: So in combination with that, we obviously know that the ultraviolet exposure is during the is primarily during the day.
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_00: And so you always wanted to support the skin with molecules with antioxidants that were going to help get, you know, reduce any damage that the ultraviolet penetrating through the sunscreen.
• 14:34
  SPEAKER_00: So at night, um, then you then that's the time that you that there's DNA repair.
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_00: Um, really happens starts happening late in the afternoon, and then also where you're starting to do collagen synthesis and everything at night.
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_00: And so um, so I thought, well, wait a minute, there is when I when I originally designed the skincare, um, which I did with John Gerudo, who was at um, he was at Skin Medica, and then he he actually was behind the elastin um line.
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_00: He was the chief um chemist, and so he and I have worked together for a number of years, and so we originally did a line called Radical Departure, which was a two-week kind of like super amped um system that you and I talked about many years ago.
• 15:17
  SPEAKER_00: Anyway, it had alpha hydroxy, alpha hydroxy in the morning, retinate at night.
• 15:21
  SPEAKER_00: Now that I know more about circadian rhythm, that wasn't exactly the optimal thing to do to really try to hit the skin so hard in the morning.
• 15:29
  SPEAKER_00: But um anyway, so he and I designed this, and so we we went to Cesderma, which is a where you can source a lot of these molecules, and we found um two molecules that actually helped that had been tested in people who worked who were night shift workers.
• 15:47
  SPEAKER_00: And so, night shift workers, as you might expect, have more sallow skin, it's drier, it's more prone to having an inflammatory condition such as eczema psoriasis, and they had increased rates of skin cancer.
• 16:01
  SPEAKER_00: Anyway, I mean that was that was a that was kind of a sideway.
• 16:04
  SPEAKER_00: We're not addressing any skin cancer, it was really about the cosmesis and also just the kind of dry, flaky skin inflamed.
• 16:11
  SPEAKER_00: And so they using these ingredients and the skincare, they found that they their skin actually had better transepidermal water loss, increased lipid production, less the color was better, um, even some brown spots went away.
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_00: So, anyway, so these two, so I have one in the one ingredient in the day, which is called circalis, and it comes from a plant, you know, it's botanical, of course, and then beta circatin, which comes from Ayurvedic medicine, actually, and that's in the that's at night.
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_00: And so both of these increase the oscillation.
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_00: So basically, if you have your cells making, they make these clock genes, which have a negative feedback loop to turn them off after a period of time, so these little peptides that are not continually made to stimulate, you know, to just have a runaway terrain of too much collagen or too much inflammation or um or anything that's out of control.
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_00: So basically, it increases the ability of the oscillation, these two molecules for the day and the night.
• 17:17
  SPEAKER_01: The skin becomes more efficient basically at doing what it's supposed to be doing.
• 17:21
  SPEAKER_01: Right, right.
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_00: You're just supporting the natural rhythm.
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_00: Right, and so then the daytime product also has more antioxidants in it.
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_00: So it has, so we call it the solar sink complex, which also has a very um elegant form of hyaluronic acid, but also it has arganil, which is a potent antioxidant, and then in the formulation itself, it has um it has a very stable form of vitamin C and also some basalol and all those anti-irritants.
• 17:51
  SPEAKER_00: And then the night formulation has some peptides in it, so that you can stimulate some you know collagen production while you sleep, which you're supposed to be doing instead of so there's a day product, a night product, and then we have an eye serum, yeah, an eye serum also.
• 18:09
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and so you know, we just sort of started.
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_00: We have other products that are in the pipeline that will have some more.
• 18:15
  SPEAKER_01: Um has the line been in existence?
• 18:19
  SPEAKER_00: Actually, a couple of years.
• 18:20
  SPEAKER_00: I just haven't really been, I've been busy.
• 18:23
  SPEAKER_00: So I haven't I haven't really promoted it that much, but I'm I'm about to because I think I'm super excited to have you at the summit last year.
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_01: That was great.
• 18:31
  SPEAKER_00: Your booth was buzzing.
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_00: It was really buzzing.
• 18:34
  SPEAKER_00: Lots of really it was really buzzing.
• 18:37
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I think that we were talking a little bit about longevity and so longevity and um basically regenerative treatments.
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_00: And so I think that as we as we as the conversation has evolved, so that all of the products that we design are really uh designed to promote, like increase, like we talk about, health span of the skin, and also to understand that the skin, the skin likes to be beautiful, it likes to be one single color, it doesn't want to have blotchiness or too much redness or anything.
• 19:12
  SPEAKER_00: And so the best way to achieve that is to support the function of the skin at the basics.
• 19:17
  SPEAKER_00: And so circadian rhythm is one of the basics of the skin that we're trying to support.
• 19:23
  SPEAKER_01: I love the idea of doing that.
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_01: It makes so much sense.
• 19:26
  SPEAKER_01: It's a it's a very good strategy, and it's a story we need to talk more about because I think we see in skincare now we're moving away from this sort of quick fix, wrinkle fixer, brightener, you know, like these targeted treatments, moving more towards skin span, which is exactly what you're addressing with this line.
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_01: So I I think you're so timely, you're always on whatever's happening.
• 19:51
  SPEAKER_01: But I think this is a really exciting new area that we're gonna see a lot more about.
• 19:56
  SPEAKER_01: And we're hoping, like I'm gonna do this and say, I hope you'll come to my longevity meeting in February, because we'd love to have you there.
• 20:04
  SPEAKER_01: Um I want to talk about I want to talk about the device too.
• 20:08
  SPEAKER_01: But this is my last question.
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_01: I gotta well, you it's on my list, of course.
• 20:13
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so we'll do talk about the device because this is cool.
• 20:16
  SPEAKER_01: You developed a device to go with your skincare.
• 20:20
  SPEAKER_01: So tell us about the device, it's really unique.
• 20:23
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so what I what I was thinking, so since I since um we've been in dermatology quite a long time, but you know, because we have been in dermatology, we uh, you know, we our skin looks pretty damn good.
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_00: We're not saying how long we've been in dermatology.
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_01: I got you beat, by the way.
• 20:39
  SPEAKER_01: I'm a little ahead of you, I think.
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_00: Not just a little, just a couple years, but you know, but yeah, we're right there.
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, we're right there out hanging in here.
• 20:49
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so and so one of the benefits of having been here for so long is of course that we had all that great music.
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_00: You know, we were there when music was music and not just you know, generating.
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_00: But the other, but um, and we still know how to dance, everybody who's listening who, you know, thinks that we don't.
• 21:05
  SPEAKER_00: But the um, but so so since I since you and I were fortunate enough to really be at ground zero when this whole field of aesthetic dermatology started, and then what did we know then?
• 21:17
  SPEAKER_00: We're just like, okay, we're gonna inject some collagen, we're gonna do a little light laser or a little peel or something.
• 21:23
  SPEAKER_00: But we had no idea that that was gonna improve the health of the skin, right?
• 21:26
  unknown: Why?
• 21:26
  SPEAKER_00: So one of the having been a part of the laser development, laser and light-based and energy-based um devices over the years, um, I've realized how and have come to understand just how effective they are in terms of in improving um the ability of the skin to repair from damage.
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_00: So you that's why I wanted to coordinate the skincare with these devices, because you know you have that.
• 21:52
  SPEAKER_00: You also know that um with the skin, with any light based device, you are gonna stimulate some more collagen.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: Production.
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_00: And you, and there's just different layers that you can stimulate depending on the on the energy-based device that you're using.
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_00: And so you also can, at least with this hasn't been shown with my device, but that you can increase mitochondria production.
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_00: That's next on my list of studies to do.
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_00: Actually, with the with the woman who presented on mitochondria, who works with Saranya Wiles.
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I'm going to have her do with a device.
• 22:28
  SPEAKER_00: Look at the increase in number of mitochondria.
• 22:30
  SPEAKER_00: That'll be great.
• 22:31
  SPEAKER_01: So wait, your device is multimodal, though, isn't it?
• 22:33
  SPEAKER_00: It's multimodal.
• 22:34
  SPEAKER_00: So what I wanted to do was take what we had in the office and then make it, you know, it's like it's like computers used to be the size of your garage, and now they're like, you know, now it's like right here.
• 22:43
  SPEAKER_00: Put them on the pond.
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_00: So I wanted to take the device and then put it into like a really sweet handheld that you could use at home, and then it's rechargeable.
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_00: So yes, it's multimodal.
• 22:54
  SPEAKER_00: So I wanted to address different layers of the skin.
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_00: So the first modality is LED.
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_00: So it has a red LED, which will stimulate mitochondria production and is considered to be regenerative.
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_00: And then there's a blue light, which is anti-inflammatory and also reduces bacterial count.
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_00: So it's good for acne, but also just any kind of inflammation.
• 23:16
  SPEAKER_00: And then there's a red blue light, which acts to create electropuration.
• 23:21
  SPEAKER_00: So you can separate the cells a little bit and drive skin care.
• 23:24
  SPEAKER_00: Drive skincare in.
• 23:25
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 23:26
  SPEAKER_00: And so each of these lights, each of these lights has three different, there's three different settings on the device.
• 23:32
  SPEAKER_00: And then the device also, oh my god, I don't even have it right here.
• 23:36
  SPEAKER_00: But anyway, the device also has radio frequency and then it has current.
• 23:43
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and so the it's more than a microcurrent, it's really more like an electric current.
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_00: And so what it will do is stimulate muscle contraction, so it's nice to address muscle, and then the radio frequency will give you a little bit of instant tightening, and so you get like this instant brow lift, and then you have the red and the blue and the violet light.
• 24:08
  SPEAKER_00: So interesting.
• 24:09
  SPEAKER_01: And you had it FDA approved, didn't you?
• 24:11
  SPEAKER_00: It's just about to get its FDA clearance.
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, yeah, I know you went through the process, so you're just about to.
• 24:18
  SPEAKER_00: We just finished it.
• 24:18
  SPEAKER_00: Zoe Drelo's just finished the the um, she just finished the study for it.
• 24:24
  SPEAKER_00: That specifically, we already did a trial with Zoe and the night serum and really showed some significant improvement in transipadromal water loss and lipid and in tightening.
• 24:33
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and it has been published already.
• 24:35
  SPEAKER_00: I just haven't, I've just been so busy with everything else, but I'm about to go it go deeper into promoting it and roll out some more product too.
• 24:44
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, because it takes time, right?
• 24:45
  SPEAKER_01: And I know you're super busy in your practice.
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_01: This is so interesting, and I cannot thank you enough for joining me today.
• 24:52
  SPEAKER_01: I'm sure everybody's gonna love this episode.
• 24:55
  SPEAKER_01: I love this subject.
• 24:56
  SPEAKER_01: I love the fact that you're always a little bit ahead of the curve.
• 25:01
  SPEAKER_01: And I wish you the best of luck in your ventures.
• 25:03
  SPEAKER_01: It's we are following you and we are cheering for you.
• 25:07
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
• 25:07
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you, Dr.
• 25:08
  SPEAKER_00: Patty.
• 25:10
  SPEAKER_01: I appreciate sharing your expertise with us.
• 25:12
  SPEAKER_01: We're so grateful.
• 25:13
  SPEAKER_01: And everybody, I hope you all enjoy this episode.
• 25:16
  SPEAKER_01: And thanks again, Dr.
• 25:18
  SPEAKER_01: Ava.