Latest / The Relentless Pursuit of Winning Podcast / Becoming Yourself Again: Burnout, Recovery, and Reinvention | Monica Stewart

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Becoming Yourself Again: Burnout, Recovery, and Reinvention | Monica Stewart · The Relentless Pursuit of Winning Podcast

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  On a physical level, a mental level, an emotional level.
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  Like my nerves were so fried, but I didn't um see it because nobody ever warns you about that.
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  It affects every single system of the way that your body functions, like your sleep, like your ability to focus, the way that you respond to any kind of stress.
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  In our conscious mind are always trying to get better and we're always trying to get happier But our subconscious mind just want to stay right here.
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  The thing that helped the most was collapsing all of my identities and not looking for work-life balance, but looking for work-life integration and pursuing what makes me feel
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  the most alive in any moment.
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  Hey, welcome to another episode of the Relentless Pursuit of Winning podcast.
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  My name is Rick Meekins.
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  I'm gonna be your host as usual in our studio.
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  We have Monica Stewart.
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  How are you today, ma'am?
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  Hey, I'm so good.
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  It's really great to be here again.
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  I'm so glad to have you again.
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  So glad to have you.
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  Guys, this is gonna be a really cool show.
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  We're gonna talk about the spiritual journey of the entrepreneur.
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  It's not a conversation that we typically have.
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  You know, this isn't necessarily a religious conversation, but this is a conversation that is probably gonna answer some questions for you that that may just been like muddling
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  around in your mind.
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  So before we get into it, I would love it.
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  I would be honored if you'd like to subscribe and hit the bell so you can get updates every time we drop a new episode.
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  And without further ado, let's get to it.
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  So, Monica,
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  For our guests that didn't get a chance to meet you last time, can you give us a little bit a little bit of a background on who you are, what you do, and why you do what you do?
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  Yeah, totally.
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  So my name's Monica.
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  I am the founder of MSP Consulting and I help B2B SaaS founders grow sustainable revenue systems between one and ten million in sales led ARR.
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  I've been doing this, I mean, in some way, shape, or form for my entire professional career, which is over fifteen years.
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  And the reason that I do this is because I have learned over time that I have a really very specific skill set that
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  that can help founders at this one really specific stage in their journey.
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  and I have tremendous respect for what it takes to to to grow and run your own business.
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  And I want to help people on that path where and where and when I can.
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  Thank you so much.
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  You know, one of one of the you know, I've I've been an entrepreneur for for thirty, thirty odd years.
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  And, you know, there there is a there's there's certainly been growth, you know, from a mental perspective.
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  There's been a growth from a you know, just a just a toughness perspective, you know, learning how to, you know, control the punches and that sort of thing.
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  But I think one of the things that, you know, I've experienced over the past, you know, four or five years is is more of that, you know, there's something else to it.
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  And we
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  spoke last time really briefly in a in our conversation about that spiritual journey.
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  And I'd I'd love to I want to get into that.
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  So can you start off and just give us like an overview of what that looks like?
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  Yeah, totally.
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  And I think maybe to answer that, the best thing to do might be to just kind of like walk through what my path has been a little bit.
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  So um my parents were both entrepreneurs.
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  When I was growing up, I never knew anyone that had a job, which was really interesting because I'm the still the only person in my immediate family to graduate from college.
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  And when I did that, I was like, I didn't even know like what I wanted to study.
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  I didn't even know what jobs were, basically, but I did know
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  That I wanted to be successful and I never wanted to be broke in my life.
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  when I say like corporate life, I never worked in a in a company more than a hundred people.
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  So for a lot of people it wasn't that corporate, but for me it was, right?
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  spent a lot of years learning how to navigate being successful within companies, and I did become very good at that.
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  a lot of great success stories that I'm very proud of, like got into leadership really quickly, all of that.
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  and then I started to kind of get this bug where I started to realize like I I could do this on my own.
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  Like I, I I could consult.
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  create my own service and my own product and I can work with whoever I want to work with and I can start to become, you know, sort of like the captain of my own ship.
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  Because when I was working within organizations, I was like unmanageable.
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  Like I was always like my my goal was to be the highest performer Um and I I succeeded at doing that and I just like worked my way to freedom basically.
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  And then I saw that there was this other path where I was like, I could just create my own freedom and I wouldn't be having to like, you know, like work within this other structure.
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  And so th I got really excited about that and then I ended up still getting convinced to go and work for other people.
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  twice after that.
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  And then finally like got to the point where I was ready to fully go out on my own.
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  Had like a burnout period in the middle there.
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  And then I think like really committed to like locking in and growing my own business about three years ago.
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  and so those are kind of the the the chapters of the story is like first chapter trying to find freedom within this other structure because I didn't know any other way.
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  Second chapter realizing that there was another way, failing to actually get there because I wasn't ready.
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  I didn't believe in myself enough yet.
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  and I also was like, you know, I would get really
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  really seduced by the idea of like being wanted and chosen.
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  And I'm like, these people like really want me to work with them.
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  Like that feels really good.
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  that's chapter two.
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  And then, you know, eventually waking up and realizing like, I'm I'm still working for somebody else again.
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  and then chapter three is you know going through like a year and a half of like serious burnout and then coming out of that and saying like okay I'm finally ready to take myself
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  seriously and really commit to myself really
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  And commit to what I know I can do in the world and and go out and actually like try to build something.
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  So so the question becomes, I mean, that that's the spiritual aspect of that.
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  I mean, there's there's, you know, the the the unseen, the untouchable component of of who we are that tends to dictate, you know, our thinking or or drive some of our thinking.
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  And, you know, sometimes we we rebel, you know, against that and we put ourselves in in burnout, you know, because you know, we're supposed to be doing this other thing or our
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  spirit's just like, Hey, you know, we want you to, you know, go build bridges and it's like, well, I just want to be safe and you know, blah, blah, blah.
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  What what was the what was that what was that experience like for you?
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  so I think that for me, I always have been someone who I pride myself on being able to say yes to things and I never want to let people down.
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  So like I can do this, I can do this, I can do this.
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  And it took me a really long time to realize that no one else is ever going to tell you to put something down.
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  Because everything that you're carrying, you're carrying for someone else and
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  They're like you're helping them, like they're benefiting from that.
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  And not in a not in like a nefarious or manipulative way, but that's really not their job because they also don't know all of the other things that you're carrying.
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  So I think like for me, the my burnout journey was getting to the point where I had said yes to so many things and I was carrying so many people and so many different
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  responsibilities.
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  And it was like I was also really high on proving to myself that I could do that.
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  And it was like, I can't believe this is all working and like I'm managing all these things.
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  And I was really l living like three completely separ separate, good like fully different lives all at the same time.
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  and I didn't ignore I didn't listen to any of the warning signs And then I finally got like the message that
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  You can't do this anymore.
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  And I remember, I mean, what happened was that I ended a really big consulting project that I was working on that was massively successful.
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  Um, and I was like, Okay, I'm gonna take a little break now.
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  And then that break lasted a year and a half.
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  Like I would open my computer and I just I didn't plan on taking the break, but I would open my computer and just stare at it for like an hour.
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  Like I didn't even know what to do.
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  I didn't I like I just my brain just literally stopped functioning.
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  and now I recognize that like, you know, then I started reading about signs of burnout and I recognized that like, that's actually what was happening, you know, like On a physical
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  level, a mental level, an emotional level.
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  Like my nerves were so fried, but I didn't see it because nobody ever warns you about that.
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  So once I kind of saw that, and and like no one ever tells you how serious it's going to be.
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  You're like, like you're, you know, go take a vacation, like sure, you're stressed, whatever.
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  It's
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  It affects every single system of the way that your body functions, like your sleep, like your ability to focus, the way that you respond to any kind of stress.
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  and so then, you know, I had to kind of like re rebuild that.
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  Um, and I think in the process of doing that, it gave me the opportunity to ask, like, what do I want to build towards?
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  Because I know that I'm definitely not gonna go, you know, back to the way that I was doing things before.
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  That's like not an option.
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  And so, like, what do I actually want to create for myself now that I've put myself in a position where I can create anything though?
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  And how did how did you what did you do?
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  Did you I re I remember with my my own journey, I'd I'd run, you know, epiphany for 20 years and I just got to a point where it was like it was just like okay, it was it was
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  dying.
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  You know what I'm saying?
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  I had no more it had no more spark, had no more juice.
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  And you know, I I literally had to sit down at one point, and and and just sit with it.
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  It was like, okay, what what is next?
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  you know, what is gonna be different?
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  What is what is this thing going to be that I'm gonna build?
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  What what was it for you what was that like for you?
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  Because I mean you were you were working for companies and all of a sudden you're just like, wait, stop.
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  I can do this for myself.
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  Yeah.
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  Well and and also like one of the one of the companies that I the last company that I worked for actually before I went out on my own was a I helped to build a really big
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  consulting agency and that actually put me off of of wanting to do my own consulting for a really long time.
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  and it's well like one of the reasons why I took this like whole break from the industry was because I was like I don't want to do it like that.
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  Like I would not build that for myself.
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  And I didn't really
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  I guess I didn't really stop to consider that like I could just do something completely different.
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  So I did think really intentionally about like what do I want this to look like.
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  And one of the things that was always really core for me is like the reason that I do this work is to work with founders.
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  It's not to build a multi-million dollar company.
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  It's not to I mean I I do want to be famous, but like it's not so that like I don't want to speak at conferences, like
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  I d it's not about like me becoming a big name.
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  For me, it's more about becoming very well respected for what I do.
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  And so the c for the for me, the core of that is like I want to do I want to put myself in the position where I can always do like the best work possible and I wanna spend as much
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  time as possible with my clients, which means that I don't want to have employees ever.
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  and it's more important to me to be able to have like a really scalable way of working with clients than it is for me to have, let's say, like the freedom to take a bunch of
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  time off every year.
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  So, you know, there's like different models that people have when they're building a services business.
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  And I think like one model is like the time freedom work-life balance model, right?
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  and sometimes I see people doing this because they want to spend time with their family or because they have something else that they do that's like, like they're a writer and they
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  wanna like have time to write their book or ride horses or like, you know, whatever their thing is.
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  At this point in my life, there's nothing else that is taking my attention away from this, like other than you know, having a social life and like taking care of myself, this is the
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  thing that I want to spend time on.
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  I was at an event last night.
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  For tech week, and I was like having a great conversation with somebody, having a glass of wine, and I was like, I gotta go.
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  Like, I I wanna go home, and there's a couple more things that I wanna work on tonight before I go to bed and start my day tomorrow.
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  It's like it it like keeps drawing me back in that way.
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  And I also didn't really wanna optimize for like mega scalability.
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  And you know, that path usually looks like you spin up a big funnel.
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  And then, you know, you you start bringing in like as much business as you can.
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  And then when you scale past your own capacity, then you start hiring people to help you with delivery and fulfillment.
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  And then that grows.
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  I mean, that's the agency model, right?
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  it's like very like lucrative model, but also comes with a bunch of things that I don't want.
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  Like I don't want employees, I don't want to have to I don't want a bunch of overhead.
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  And it's because like I want to, I actually want to be in the work.
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  So that was that was something that was very like core for me.
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  And it was very helpful actually in realizing that there was a path to creating a business that I would really enjoy because I realized like, I could just strip away all the things
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  that I don't like to do.
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  I could literally just not make those things a part of my business.
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  Like I'm not great at RevOps, I don't do RevOps.
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  like I don't do like I don't get involved in things that are not like my core areas of expertise.
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  Um and so my focus has really been like, okay, how can I turn down the noise on everything else so that I can really be spending the majority of my time in my zone of genius.
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  Mm.
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  Mm.
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  Mm.
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  How did how did you how did you arrive at this?
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  I mean, I I I know that you know, as entrepreneurs, you know, we we certainly have choices, you know, and and about how we how we do things.
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  But I think when we start to, you know, kind of peel back the banana, you know, there there are certain things that, you know, we're we're known, you know, for trusting our
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  gut, so to speak.
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  You know, what what's
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  Is is is that kind of where you went with this or is there is there something different?
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  I think that it was it definitely came from a place of intuition and it it also came from a lot of self reflection and self-inquiry.
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  and I mean this might be kind of a weird answer, but it also kind of came from AI.
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  Like, I have I mean I've comp like when we talk about like when I started doing consulting was like whatever.
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  2017.
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  And when I say when I started doing consulting, there was a company that wanted to hire me as their VP of sales.
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  And I was like, look, you don't even need a VP of sales right now.
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  You've got like two reps, like you're way too early for that.
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  This is not, there's not enough full-time VP of sales work here for me to even do.
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  And I was like, I don't want to work here full-time anyway.
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  But I was like, I can I know what you need, I can help you, and I can do that for you in like a day a week.
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  And they were like, Great.
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  Like how much is it gonna be?
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  And I was like, my God.
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  And so I spent like a whole I spent like a so much time like putting together this proposal and I asked friends and all of this stuff.
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  And I was like, it's gonna be five thousand dollars a month.
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  And they were like, Great, let's do it.
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  And I was like, Really?
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  Sh I definitely should have asked for at least twice that much.
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  but like I had no idea what I was doing.
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  I I I just made I just made like workshops and like I just started creating like
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  you know, material that I would come in once a week and like I would teach these reps.
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  And like I I really didn't know.
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  but so starting from like that long ago, and then, you know, when I was like really deep in it was like 2018, 2019 when I was helping to build this agency.
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  and then like in the last couple of years, looking at the way that the industry is going, I'm very aware that you can go to Claude right now and you can say, like,
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  Hey, can you give me a discovery?
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  Here's my company, here's my website, here's what we do.
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  Can you give me a discovery outline according to the principles of force management or challenger or a medic or whatever it is?
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  Now, is this gonna be good?
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  No, not really.
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  Is it gonna be like C plus?
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  Yeah.
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  Is it gonna be better than what most founders are doing?
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  Definitely.
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  So there's I mean, just like with anything, like I think AI is creating this situation in a lot of industries where like you can kind of get a good enough version of stuff.
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  And like what we used to do like as sales consultants is we used to be very gatekeepy and we're like, we have the keys to the castle and you haven't closed deals and we've closed
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  all these deals and like you know, we're a special breed and like we're gonna teach you the ways.
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  And that is just not the case anymore.
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  Like people don't need to go through us to get basic access to this information and sometimes like pretty decent access to this information if you really want to take the
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  time to study it, right?
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  So so I really thought like, all right.
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  What am I what am I gonna build my business on that's future proof?
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  And for me, that is like the work that I do with people one on one.
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  Like the majority of of the things that I work on with my clients, like they're my my clients are smart.
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  Like most of the time they they already know what I'm telling them.
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  Like, you know, when we have like had a meeting earlier today,
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  That was a proposal meeting with a founder, and I was like, look, I'm not gonna tell you anything today that's gonna be like news to you.
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  Like you already know these are the things that you need to work on.
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  But the difference is that like I can help them get there a lot faster than they would on their own.
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  And how am I able to do that?
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  Through like the interpersonal skills and emotional intelligence skills and the intuition that I have and my ability to read the room and my ability to move people from one place
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  to another.
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  And like all of the things that made me good at sales are now like sort of like energy work skills that I use with the founders that I work with, which is totally decoupled from
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  like, here's how here's your demo framework and like here's your discovery script and like all of that stuff.
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  So, you know, I also thought like, okay, if my ICP, if my clients can now go to AI and they can get a lot of these, I mean
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  At the agency, we used to charge people $30,000 for building a sales playbook.
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  And you can just get that right now in like 10 minutes.
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  And again, it's not gonna be great.
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  But also a lot of the sales playbooks that consultants charge to build are also not great.
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  Like, let's be honest with ourselves right now.
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  So I'm like, okay, if this is the direction that the world is going, how can I just start to take that and harness it for myself and make all of my delivery really, really, really
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  good?
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  really high quality because I'm not a generic LLM.
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  I have my whole brain that I can put into it.
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  but also make that like the smallest thing that I spend time on when I'm working with people so that I can give them like an enormous amount of value there.
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  And I can still have a considerable amount of time that I can devote to each client to working with them one-on-one, which is and helping them to get to the next phase of their
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  development as leaders.
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  And their relationship with their team to change and all of those things that need to happen for change to happen in an organization, which is something that I'm uniquely
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  positioned to do.
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  And is also like the thing that I enjoy the most.
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  Like I don't want to teach the same medic workshop forever, you know?
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  Like that, that would that would be boring to me.
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  So I think that was another I would get burned out doing that.
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  So I think that was another thing that I wanted to optimize for is like, what do I think is most interesting about this work?
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  And then how can I create space to do that while still giving all my clients all the pieces of the work?
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  Mm, mm.
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  So it sounds like you went through a lot of self reflection.
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  I guess we jump back into it.
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  Yeah.
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  So we were talking about we were talking about AI and like how you design your business for the things that you want to optimize for, I guess was the question.
• 18:38
  Yeah, yeah.
• 18:38
  well what I what I was thinking is is that, you know, you've obviously gone through a lot of a lot of growth, a lot of personal, you know, introspection in order to get where you
• 18:49
  get on the trajectory that you're going on.
• 18:50
  One of the things that in your note that you sent me, one of the things you talked about was the idea that growth is a nervous system event before it's a business event.
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  And I and I wanna I wan I wanna I want you to explain that a little bit and
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  What that looked like in your experience.
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  Totally.
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  So I don't know if anyone listening to this is familiar with the work of Gay Hendrix.
• 19:10
  You'll know what I'm talking about.
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  And if you're not, you should go and look up Gay Hendrix upper limit theory right now.
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  so I listened to this podcast like three years ago and t totally changed my life.
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  I bought the book, I sent it to everybody, and so his his theory is that
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  Everybody has a sort of a set level within them of where they feel comfortable in terms of like every factor of your life, like how healthy and like fit you feel comfortable being,
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  like your set like body state, the amount of love that you think you should have in your life, the amount of money you think you should have in your life, how happy you should be,
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  like how free you should feel, like all of these sort of
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  It's like we have these little set temperature dials for all these things in our system.
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  And so what your body wants to do, your entire system is not designed to be optimized.
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  Your entire system is designed to be comfortable.
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  You know, that's why, like, you know, anyone who's you're into fitness, I'm into fitness.
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  That's why we constantly have to keep shocking our system to keep getting results.
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  Because our bodies are really good at adapting to a status quo.
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  And so the idea is that
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  you know, we as In our conscious mind are always trying to get better and we're always trying to get happier and we're always trying to have more love and more money and more
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  success and all the things that we want.
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  But our subconscious mind and our entire nervous system, we just want to stay right here.
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  Like we just want to stay where we are.
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  And that set point is different for everybody.
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  and so when you and you don't really notice it until you start to approach or exceed it.
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  Mm-hmm.
• 20:39
  you approach or exceed it, what happens is that you will usually totally subconsciously do things to bring yourself back down to that level.
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  So it's like, let's say that you are trying to lose 20 pounds and and it's happening.
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  And you're like, my God.
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  Like, and I feel and I feel hot.
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  And like people are looking at me and like, I need to buy new jeans.
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  And like, this is great.
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  And then you might be like, you know what?
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  I'm just a little like, I'm just like,
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  I I deserve it.
• 21:05
  Like, I'm gonna go treat myself.
• 21:06
  And and then you like just binge for like a whole weekend, right?
• 21:10
  And of course you can get back on that train.
• 21:12
  But what your subconscious your body is trying to go back to the old person that you were because it's like, wait, this isn't us, this isn't what we do, and this isn't what our
• 21:20
  friends think we do.
• 21:21
  And like you're gonna get kicked out of the tribe if you keep acting like this.
• 21:24
  Like, this isn't what the people around you signed up for.
• 21:26
  And there's all these like little alarm signals that start to go off.
• 21:29
  And it manifests itself in a lot of different ways.
• 21:32
  Like it could be
• 21:33
  like for some people it's like a physical illness.
• 21:35
  Like if you're y things are going great and then all of a you're like, I have headache.
• 21:39
  I don't know.
• 21:39
  I feel so sick.
• 21:40
  It could be that.
• 21:41
  It could be like we all have our own self-sabotaging behaviors.
• 21:44
  And I'm sure, you know, everyone listening to this, you're probably you can probably think of a couple of that you have right now, right?
• 21:49
  It could be being tired.
• 21:51
  It could be starting a fight with your partner.
• 21:54
  Like it could be could be a million things.
• 21:56
  Could be just like staying up way too late doom scrolling and starting to zone out.
• 22:00
  Like
• 22:00
  Yeah.
• 22:01
  Whatever it is.
• 22:02
  And so the work is to start to recognize that behavior when it comes up in yourself and and and and kind of talk to it.
• 22:10
  And instead of just going with it and letting it run your life, recognize like, and sometimes you recognize after you've done the thing, like you're gonna you're gonna do the
• 22:18
  thing a bunch of times.
• 22:19
  But the the difference is in recognizing that behavior and then saying, like, okay.
• 22:24
  Okay, cool.
• 22:25
  I see I see what we did there.
• 22:27
  Like we probably shouldn't have gone out on a Thursday on this week when we have a lot of things to do, but but we did, and I know why, and that's okay.
• 22:35
  You wanna feel comfortable, like you wanna like this is this would be a normal thing for us to do in the past version of of of us.
• 22:42
  and I get it, but like we're gonna try to not do that again.
• 22:46
  And I know it's gonna be a process, it's probably gonna happen again, but we're gonna keep working towards this thing because
• 22:51
  how good we felt before that and all like all the great things that were happening and all the great things that were lined up.
• 22:56
  This is the new baseline.
• 22:59
  And then over time, and it can take like quite some time, you start to become, you start to behave as the person where that actually is their baseline.
• 23:08
  And you get comfortable with it.
• 23:10
  And then over time, that actually becomes your baseline.
• 23:12
  But this process never ends.
• 23:14
  It it it keeps going.
• 23:15
  So like
• 23:16
  You know, for me, some of the ways that this has shown up is I remember the first time that I had a post go really viral.
• 23:22
  it was out of nowhere.
• 23:22
  And it was like not even a post that I thought was I I typed it in the back of a car on the way to the airport.
• 23:28
  And it was like 10,000 views, and I was like, cool.
• 23:31
  and then I went into an appointment and I came out like an hour later and I looked at my phone and it was like 50,000 views.
• 23:37
  And I was like, wow.
• 23:39
  and this is like a Friday, like late afternoon.
• 23:42
  and then I remember like walking home and like I was texting with my friends, but I kept checking LinkedIn And over the course of the next 24 hours, it went to over half a
• 23:51
  million.
• 23:51
  And I know that it's not real, it's just like numbers on a screen, but it was like being perceived, no like I felt so exposed.
• 24:00
  And like, and that's another that's another level is like your level of visibility is is a real thing.
• 24:06
  And I was not prepared to deal with it.
• 24:09
  And so I called my friend, we went out, we had a bunch of drinks, and like I just disassociated basically.
• 24:16
  because I could not handle it.
• 24:18
  And I felt it brought up so much anxiety and like I was not okay.
• 24:22
  Um, and now I've had that happen a couple of times, and now I'm like, cool.
• 24:27
  And now, you know, now I'm kind of like sad, like when I think it's gonna happen and it doesn't.
• 24:32
  but it took a couple of times, or like, you know, holding the amount of money that I want to make.
• 24:36
  like I've gotten to levels in my business that I had planned for multiple times, and then I'm like,
• 24:42
  Okay, all right, we're doing this, we're doing this, and like I get the clients.
• 24:45
  And then once it's actually happening, I freak out and I sabotage it.
• 24:50
  because I I don't actually feel comfortable.
• 24:53
  I'm like, I can't, I can't, I can't do this.
• 24:55
  Like it's gonna happen eventually, like, and I start like getting kind of avoidant.
• 25:00
  And that's also happened a couple of times, and like over the past two years, I've
• 25:04
  put a lot into intentionally building my business and working on my nervous system so that I feel completely comfortable handling the size that my business is right now.
• 25:15
  And this time it's actually working.
• 25:16
  Um, but it took like, you know, two false starts over the past two years in order to get here.
• 25:22
  Wow, wow.
• 25:23
  You're you're very kind to your nervous system.
• 25:25
  You know, you just like kinda coax it along.
• 25:27
  It's okay, you know, we're gonna get this next time.
• 25:30
  You know, it's it's it's inter
• 25:31
  was a big shift too.
• 25:32
  I had to learn how to do that because I learned that like you know, and like part of the thing about about running your own business is like you don't have a boss, you don't have
• 25:39
  coworkers, no one's telling you you're doing a good job.
• 25:42
  Only I am gonna tell me if I'm doing a good job or not.
• 25:45
  And if I'm always I was such a bad, toxic, boss to myself, where it was never enough.
• 25:51
  I was never working enough, I was never doing enough.
• 25:53
  If I made any mistakes, it was totally not okay.
• 25:55
  And like I wouldn't want to, I wouldn't want to work for me, but I have to work for me.
• 26:00
  So like that that was also something that I had to work on was like, okay, if it's just me, myself, and I here, I need to start creating some emotional safety for myself with
• 26:10
  myself the way that I would for anybody else.
• 26:13
  Like I would never treat anyone else that I worked with the way that I used to talk to myself about myself.
• 26:17
  Wow.
• 26:18
  Wow.
• 26:18
  That's that's huge.
• 26:19
  My my coach tells me, you know, that we have to we have to celebrate these little wins.
• 26:24
  And it's like, you know, I'm I'm always just like, well, we we have another level to get to, you know, it's like you accomplish a thing, it's like, you know, what's next?
• 26:31
  But I I really respect what you said about, you know, these these these unexpected, you know, accomplishments that that you you know, that that you sabotage and and I'm sure
• 26:41
  that, you know, other people experience that.
• 26:43
  You know, it's unknown territory.
• 26:44
  I I know that even with this podcast.
• 26:46
  You know, when, you know, I I remember coming in and it was just like, you know, there's all these inquiries, people are just like, Hey, can I be on the show?
• 26:52
  Can I be on the show?
• 26:53
  And it's like, my gosh.
• 26:54
  You know, and it's like, whoa, you know, and and exactly, that's exactly what I did.
• 27:02
  But, you know, it's it's it's amazing how our nervous system protects us.
• 27:07
  It does.
• 27:07
  It does.
• 27:08
  It is it is trying to help you.
• 27:10
  It is trying to keep you safe because we don't know we don't know the difference between feeling overexposed on LinkedIn and like actual danger because our nervous system doesn't
• 27:21
  know what LinkedIn is.
• 27:22
  So and I mean like Gay Gay Hendricks talks about this.
• 27:25
  Like we are you know, we're we're tribal creatures and anytime that you
• 27:31
  start to experience like really different results in an area of your life, it actually puts you in danger of leaving the tribe.
• 27:38
  Like it it it puts you in danger of being like, hey, one of these things is not like the other.
• 27:43
  And you know, I I'm sure that you've experienced this.
• 27:45
  Like I've also experienced like as I've grown in my life and grown in my business and grown as a person, your relationships change and like
• 27:53
  You know, the conversations that you have with people change and sometimes like you changing triggers other people and so that is actually a a very real thing.
• 28:01
  Yeah, yeah.
• 28:02
  You you know what I've experienced is you know, in the upgrading process was as you as you as you mentioned, you know, you know no longer fit in your tribe.
• 28:11
  You know, and it be it invited a new different level of loneliness because I didn't know, don't know perhaps even now, you know, how I'm gonna get to that next level of of
• 28:21
  contentment.
• 28:22
  You know what I'm saying?
• 28:23
  Because what I was doing before no longer fits.
• 28:26
  the definitions that I had for myself, the definitions that other people had for me no longer fit.
• 28:31
  The language changes.
• 28:32
  You know you know what I mean?
• 28:34
  How d did you experience that?
• 28:35
  And if so, how'd you navigate it?
• 28:38
  I I experience that all the time.
• 28:39
  I'm in I'm in a good season of that right now 'cause like there's the there's like the
• 28:45
  There's the where you start, and then there's the uncomfortable part where you're pulling away from where you start.
• 28:50
  And then there's the in-between part where you're like, I know I can't be here anymore.
• 28:55
  But you haven't like landed on the other side and you haven't found your new tribe or like rearranged your relationships with the people who are your forever tribe.
• 29:04
  And that that part is really hard and like that that part is really lonely.
• 29:08
  And I think for me, one of the things that came up there was I realized that I had a lot of limiting beliefs around the types of people that I wanted to be closer to and wanted to
• 29:20
  spend more time with, which was that like, you know, I wasn't on their level or
• 29:24
  I was like too wild or too weird or like that we wouldn't have anything to talk about or that they wouldn't think I was cool or you know, like whatever it was.
• 29:35
  and it turns out that that is not true.
• 29:38
  And like I now have a great group of people around me that I feel like we're aligned in the things that we want and the things that we're working on and also just who we are as
• 29:48
  people.
• 29:49
  Um
• 29:50
  And that has been fantastic.
• 29:52
  And I'm looking forward to like, you know, doing even more of that.
• 29:56
  this year.
• 29:57
  And like I also have kind of like shifted around some of my relationships with some of my with some of my older friends.
• 30:03
  and it's cool because now one of the things that I hear from from some of them is they're like, you're so inspiring, like seeing you go through this journey and like knowing who
• 30:12
  you were.
• 30:13
  you know, when I met you versus like how you're showing up in your life now and like all of the things that you've accomplished.
• 30:18
  Like, I want to do that, you know?
• 30:20
  Um, and that's cool because like I'm like, yeah, let's go on the journey together.
• 30:25
  Like, like one of the things that I'll do is like I have like friends that will come over and like co-work with me.
• 30:30
  And that's amazing because it's like, you know, if they're like I might not be able to go out and get drinks with you guys as often as I would want to, but
• 30:37
  Mm-hmm.
• 30:38
  you wanna come over and you wanna co work with me, that's amazing.
• 30:40
  And then we can go on a little walk and we can go have some wine after work and like, you know, seeing like how people meet you on your journey is also really cool.
• 30:49
  That is cool.
• 30:50
  That is cool.
• 30:51
  It's it's interesting.
• 30:52
  you know, how sometimes in your evolution you inspire people, you know, not not intentionally.
• 30:57
  You know, you're you're just doing you, you know, you don't even see it coming and someone's just like, wow, you know, you're just doing the thing and it's just like, I want
• 31:04
  to do that.
• 31:04
  I mean, that's that's that's huge.
• 31:06
  You know, it's uh you know, that's that's that inspiration from yeah, I don't want to say from behind, but that that that's kind of that push, you know, I think sometimes to keep
• 31:14
  going.
• 31:15
  Um, you talked about you talked a little bit about curiosity.
• 31:18
  You know, sometimes, you know, and and I'm what I'm taking that to understand is, you know, allowing yourself to you just just explore what's out there versus, you know,
• 31:28
  creating a very specific expectation.
• 31:30
  Can you talk a little about a little bit about that?
• 31:32
  Totally.
• 31:33
  Yeah.
• 31:33
  So like I think the way that this comes up for me the most is in like my actual like my actual client work.
• 31:39
  Um so you know, going back to like kind of seeing where the industry is going and seeing where the world is going in general, there was a there was like a dropping of the ego that
• 31:49
  had to happen because again, like we are not gatekeeping anymore.
• 31:52
  It's not about me.
• 31:54
  It's about where I can get you.
• 31:56
  That's my value.
• 31:57
  And so,
• 31:58
  I think I learned something in every single project that I do.
• 32:02
  And sometimes that's from the teams that I'm working with.
• 32:05
  Like there's often like people on on the teams that I get to work with that have a better idea for how to do something than I do, which is great.
• 32:12
  and then sometimes it's because like I get to solve new problems with with every company and with every project.
• 32:18
  And so, you know, sometimes like thinking like, okay, well, this is a little bit different.
• 32:22
  Than the way that I've done this before, because of, you know, the way that their business is set up or whatever.
• 32:28
  All right, well, how do we how do we adapt to that?
• 32:32
  And then sometimes that will give me clues.
• 32:33
  I'm like, you know what?
• 32:34
  This would actually work better for a lot of people.
• 32:36
  I'm gonna rethink this.
• 32:38
  Like, I think a lot more people need this part of the of the discovery conversation or like whatever it is.
• 32:44
  Um, or like we don't need to be doing research this way, we should be doing it with this type of AI prompt, or you know.
• 32:49
  It's always, always evolving.
• 32:51
  So like I always lean into like I really use all of the work that I do as kind of like my own lab to like always be asking myself, like, does this really make sense?
• 33:01
  Is this really the right way to do it?
• 33:03
  Am I am I like really teaching people like the best knowledge that is available?
• 33:07
  like I think an example of this is I have all these workshops that I do.
• 33:11
  And now because I don't have to like click around on a
• 33:15
  PowerPoint in order to make my my workshop content.
• 33:18
  every like let's say four or five times that I run a workshop, I'll take the transcripts from those meetings and I'll run them through a CLOD project that I have and I'll ask it
• 33:29
  to summarize for me what are the things that I talked about consistently in the sessions that I ran that are not actually in the deck that aren't included in the official content.
• 33:38
  And then I'll review that.
• 33:40
  And if there are themes that are coming out that like I missed when I put it together before, I'm like, okay, cool, yeah, we need to update that part because that's not
• 33:47
  applying anymore.
• 33:48
  Or people are asking questions that I haven't answered in here.
• 33:51
  And so I'm constantly iterating on all of my content and it's always getting better because I'm always leaning into like, well, what did I miss?
• 33:57
  You know?
• 33:58
  And it's like my favorite part of sales is discovery.
• 34:01
  And it's almost like I'm doing like meta discovery on my own business all the time.
• 34:06
  what else is there?
• 34:07
  Like, you know, what else could we be doing?
• 34:09
  Um and sometimes I talk to other consultants that are like, yeah, you know, I've got like, yeah, I know there's all these other things going on, but like I've got a pretty good
• 34:19
  thing going.
• 34:20
  I strongly believe on a like on a on a
• 34:23
  spiritual and personal level that like you cannot skip any steps in life.
• 34:28
  So I am constantly seeking out like if there's a change to be made, like I want to find it and I want to do it right now because I don't want to have to do it later.
• 34:36
  And I don't want it to like, you know, it's like I feel like the universe is always like we can do this the easy way or the hard way.
• 34:42
  And like I want to do it on my own terms the easy way before I'm like forced to change.
• 34:47
  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 34:48
  It's gonna happen one way or the not one way or the other.
• 34:50
  I absolutely believe that.
• 34:51
  I th I think it's I think it's I think it's interesting in, you know, the journey to to kinda honor, you know, your your spirit, you know, and your spirit is like pushing you in
• 35:00
  a certain direction.
• 35:01
  And you know, you you c you kind of wonder about people that that don't honor that, you know, people that'll just say, Okay, well I'm I'm just gonna get by, I'm just gonna do the
• 35:09
  the bare minimum, you know, and and there's
• 35:12
  I'm I'm I'm kind of curious, you know, about those folks.
• 35:15
  I I don't I would never want to live in that camp.
• 35:18
  You know what I'm saying?
• 35:19
  But it's it's just like it's it's just different.
• 35:21
  You know?
• 35:21
  I can
• 35:22
  Yeah.
• 35:23
  Yeah.
• 35:24
  I mean, I I do know, I know some I can think of some people that I know very well that like you know what?
• 35:29
  Honestly, I think that growth looks different for everyone.
• 35:32
  And like I don't know I don't know if we know enough about somebody's inner world to know if that's really what's happening for them.
• 35:39
  Like, you know, I have I have some friends that like for them their thing is not like their thing is not their career.
• 35:45
  Like
• 35:46
  Mm-hmm.
• 35:46
  have good jobs, like they're good at what they do, but they want to like, they want to leave that at the door when they come home.
• 35:51
  And they have like other things in life that they're, you know, that they're that they're driven by and that they're inspired by.
• 35:58
  Um, my best friend is like this actually, and I've been friends with her for 20 years.
• 36:02
  And like she is, I mean, she's an a a tremendous person and she's gone through so many phases, obviously, in the time that we've been friends.
• 36:09
  And if you were to look at it from the outside, you might not know that.
• 36:13
  But I think that yeah, I mean, I think, yeah, growth I think looks different for everybody.
• 36:17
  And we're all starting in different places and we all have different tasks that we have to complete in this life.
• 36:24
  And like I I'm very conscious that like my path in this life is to be pushing like hard on the on the birth and death cycles and the growth and the reinvention.
• 36:35
  I got a
• 36:36
  Birth chart reading actually from someone about six months ago and six or seven months ago.
• 36:41
  And she was like, Yeah, you're just gonna keep becoming a completely different person every three years, like forever.
• 36:48
  And I was like, forever, like this is it's never it's never gonna stop.
• 36:52
  And she's like, Yeah, that's just that's you in this lifetime.
• 36:56
  She was like, Is it like, do you ever get tired?
• 36:58
  And I was Yeah, it's exhausting.
• 36:59
  But I guess like this is just you know, but I understand that that's not everybody's passion.
• 37:04
  And I don't think that that I I would not discount the work that anybody else is doing because I I just I think it looks different for everybody.
• 37:11
  Yeah.
• 37:12
  Yeah.
• 37:12
  And and I and I'm sure that some people would look at like, you know, the choices that I make and they're like, why are you doing all of that?
• 37:19
  Like, why can't you just like, you know, why can't you just chill?
• 37:24
  And unfortunately I cannot.
• 37:25
  I cannot chill.
• 37:28
  I feel you on that.
• 37:29
  You know, what's is interesting is I was I was reading recently, I don't I don't remember where it was, but we're they were just talking about the idea that some people start this
• 37:38
  process much later in life.
• 37:40
  You know, in their thirties, forties, fifties, you know, whatever that is, and they become they begin to
• 37:45
  you know, really get on that track and it's like, okay, I'm gonna build the thing or I'm gonna become the person or or whatever it is.
• 37:51
  And that's it's it's a whole you know, I I look at it sometimes as, you know, you've got this whole, you know, forty years of becoming, you know, your soul is getting your spirit
• 38:01
  is getting ready, your nervous system you had to experience all of these things and then you're ready to become, you know, that version of yourself that you're ultimately going to
• 38:10
  be.
• 38:10
  And I I I think that that's
• 38:12
  I thi I th I think that that's amazing.
• 38:13
  I I think the people that don't give up, you know, and say, Okay, I I'm gonna go through this.
• 38:17
  I'm gonna go through this difficult change.
• 38:20
  I'm going to allow my nervous system to to level up so that I can, you know, take this thing that's there for me.
• 38:26
  I th I'm just so I I I th I just have so much respect for those people, you know.
• 38:31
  Me too, yeah.
• 38:32
  I I I love those stories.
• 38:34
  I watch, I don't know if you like Martha Stewart, but I watched like all of her documentaries.
• 38:38
  And she started Martha Stewart Omni Media when she was like fifty.
• 38:42
  Like she got divorced from her husband and really like got serious about her catering business when she was fifty.
• 38:48
  Yeah, when she was oh, five zero.
• 38:52
  Yeah.
• 38:53
  She she had three lives.
• 38:55
  Like she got divorced and and like really started going all in on her catering business when she was like in her early 40s.
• 39:01
  I you know, in astrology, like if you look at your chart, you see where you have like things concentrated in your chart.
• 39:07
  It's like North Node versus South Node.
• 39:09
  And South Node is people who came into this life with a lot of stuff, a lot of karma.
• 39:15
  And sometimes it helps them and sometimes it doesn't.
• 39:17
  Sometimes it means that your job in this life
• 39:19
  is to work through karma from past lives and that can look a bunch of different ways.
• 39:24
  And then other people, you come into this life with not a lot in the South Node.
• 39:28
  This is how my chart is I'm all North Node, which is all destiny.
• 39:32
  But it also means that you come into life like with nothing kind of, you're kind of like a blank slate.
• 39:37
  And so your whole work in this lifetime is to is to move towards your destiny in this lifetime.
• 39:42
  And you don't have like anything that's dragging you down, but you also don't really have anything to work with that's helping you and you have to create it all.
• 39:49
  so I think that's another way to think about it is like, you know, we also have different jobs and we have different reasons that we're here and some of us are here to create
• 39:58
  something and some of us are here to get rid of things.
• 40:01
  Mm.
• 40:01
  Yeah, I had I had a friend that was I thought was telling me about that.
• 40:04
  it was it was interesting.
• 40:06
  They were talking about how your soul actually got to pick, you know, part of your journey before you, you know, before you're even born.
• 40:12
  I I was just like, Wow, that's that's that's kinda cool.
• 40:15
  It's kinda cool.
• 40:16
  It is right.
• 40:17
  Yeah.
• 40:18
  I think about that a lot and I'm like, I wonder like I wonder why like why why this path.
• 40:24
  but like what I always come back to is like the the greatest like the h all that I have to do is just is just become the person that I came here to be.
• 40:37
  And so that's why I take this
• 40:39
  this works so seriously because like when I feel called towards something, I never question it because it it always takes me in the right direction.
• 40:47
  So like, you know, for the past couple of years, I'm like, okay, what I'm what I have to do now is like I'm I have to go and build this business and then I have to become the
• 40:56
  person that can hold that business.
• 40:58
  And so I'm like, okay, let's do it.
• 41:01
  I don't I'm not gonna ask why.
• 41:02
  Like that's just okay.
• 41:03
  That's that's that's what I'm here to do.
• 41:05
  And
• 41:06
  You know, we were talking about like inspiration earlier.
• 41:08
  I've been so inspired by so many people.
• 41:11
  Sometimes people I don't even know.
• 41:12
  Like sometimes it's just someone that I saw somewhere and I'm like, wow, their energy.
• 41:17
  Like, you know, like just the vision of like how that person is showing up, like is imprinted on me.
• 41:23
  And like we never know how we impact other people's lives and like how we're showing up for them.
• 41:30
  And so I also very strongly believe that like
• 41:32
  The work that you're doing to become the person that you are here to become, create the thing that you're gonna create.
• 41:38
  It's like you have to do it because if you don't do it, you're not just letting yourself down, you're letting down everyone else where you were supposed to play a role in their
• 41:46
  story.
• 41:46
  And now they don't have that thing there.
• 41:48
  And like you you can't like you can't mess up the the chain of interdependence, right?
• 41:53
  It's like we are all.
• 41:54
  We're all we're all the protagonists of our own movie, but we're all characters in other people's movies.
• 41:59
  And so like you need to show up and do that walk on part, like even if that's all it is, that still matters to other people.
• 42:06
  I love that.
• 42:07
  I love that.
• 42:07
  I love that.
• 42:08
  We walk on characters to other people's movies.
• 42:13
  Yeah.
• 42:14
  Yes.
• 42:15
  Yes.
• 42:15
  Yes.
• 42:16
  I th I think the biggest struggle
• 42:19
  with the journey sometimes is, you know, you have direction, but you don't necessarily know what destination looks like.
• 42:26
  You know what I'm saying?
• 42:27
  And and so you have to learn to navigate.
• 42:30
  My opinion is you have to learn to navigate in shorter sprints.
• 42:34
  That could look like one day at a time.
• 42:36
  Is that has that been your experience?
• 42:37
  And and how did you if so, how did you learn to navigate that?
• 42:40
  gosh, a hundred percent.
• 42:42
  Like I was well, because I mean, like you said, we don't know where it's gonna go.
• 42:49
  Like, I like to do something that I find fun is to like go and like go back in little snapshots in my life.
• 42:57
  Um, because it helps me to understand, like I'll go back to a particular moment in time, whatever, some years ago, and then I'll think about okay.
• 43:07
  Who was that person?
• 43:08
  What was I doing?
• 43:09
  What was I thinking about?
• 43:10
  What did I think was gonna happen?
• 43:12
  What was I worried about?
• 43:13
  And then I'll play the next two years of life that happened after that, just to remind myself like, dude, you had no clue.
• 43:20
  You had no clue.
• 43:22
  Like, I'll like I I like to think about who like who I was, where I was, and what I was feeling before like big life events happened, right?
• 43:29
  Before I started that relationship, before I quit that job, before
• 43:32
  I, you know, realized that I could make that move somewhere or whatever.
• 43:36
  just to remind myself that like for what's gonna happen in my future, I am that person now that's just sitting here doing a podcast with you, blissfully unaware of like what is
• 43:45
  about to happen.
• 43:46
  Um I also like to do it because it's a good way to see your progress.
• 43:50
  You're like, I don't know, am I really like doing anything?
• 43:53
  Am I just like spinning my wheels?
• 43:54
  Am I really progressing in life?
• 43:55
  And then it's like, okay, well, what were you doing six months ago?
• 43:58
  And you're like, yeah, I don't know, I did a lot of work.
• 44:00
  six months.
• 44:01
  but the yeah, the only the only way I think the only thing you can do is just keep following the path little by little because like I mean all everything about my life now I
• 44:11
  never would have been able to predict five years ago because I didn't even know that these things I didn't meet the people that are in my life now.
• 44:17
  I didn't even know that these things were possible, right?
• 44:20
  Yeah.
• 44:21
  I'm with you.
• 44:21
  I'm with you.
• 44:22
  I've I had no no intention of being a podcast host or media producer or anything like that.
• 44:28
  It's not on my radar at any point in my life.
• 44:31
  But you know what?
• 44:31
  I I wouldn't give this up.
• 44:32
  This is this is absolutely amazing.
• 44:34
  From from a from a from a spirit perspective, I'm gonna I'm gonna ask you the question that I always ask my guests.
• 44:41
  We're able to define winning in whatever way that we want to.
• 44:44
  The difficulty, the challenge that we always face, and we talked about this a little bit, is that maintaining that relentless pursuit.
• 44:52
  It's breaking out of, you know, that comfort zone.
• 44:55
  What do you what would you recommend to our guests to help them maintain that relentless pursuit?
• 45:00
  Hmm, that's such a good question.
• 45:02
  so I think for me the thing that has helped is collapsing my different identities.
• 45:09
  so for a long time I felt this like this tension between, you know, the different like versions of Monica that exist.
• 45:18
  And I'm like, you know, like
• 45:20
  I wanna go over here and I wanna be festival Monica, but like I have to be podcast Monica and then I've gotta be like work Monica and whatever.
• 45:28
  Going back and forth between these different identities and I never felt like I had enough time in any of them and it was like constantly frustrating and and that makes you feel
• 45:36
  tired.
• 45:36
  That makes you feel burned out pretty quickly.
• 45:38
  And I think the
• 45:39
  the thing that has really helped is like harmonizing and collapsing all of those so that I feel whole and I feel like I am expressing myself fully in all of the things that I'm
• 45:52
  doing.
• 45:53
  It was upgrading my sense of self in different parts of my life so that I no longer felt like I was
• 46:00
  Playing a role, I felt like, no, this is really who I am.
• 46:03
  Like, this isn't me like trying to be this person.
• 46:05
  This is authentically a part of me and I don't have to apologize for it in other parts of my life.
• 46:10
  and then it was also like really tuning in to what I actually want to do and spending a lot less time trying to live up to other people's expectations and visions of me.
• 46:26
  Yeah.
• 46:26
  I not only felt like I was playing a role for myself in some areas of my life, but the the the the tension was coming from me playing a role for other people where they still
• 46:37
  expected me to show up as a slightly older version of myself.
• 46:39
  And I had to be okay just saying like I don't want to do that anymore.
• 46:44
  Like this is the now, like yeah, that was what I did, but now this is
• 46:50
  th this is authentically like how I am.
• 46:53
  And like just really honing in on like you are only following your own path all the time.
• 47:00
  And then when you start to do that, you don't have work-life balance, you have work-life integration.
• 47:05
  It's kind of like skiing.
• 47:07
  It's like you get like on that little path and you're just like going so fast because you're so like you're so locked in.
• 47:14
  Mm-hmm.
• 47:14
  I don't know if that metaphor makes sense, but I think that yeah, that that was The thing that helped the most was collapsing all of my identities and not looking for work-life
• 47:23
  balance, but looking for work-life integration and pursuing what makes me feel the most alive in any moment.
• 47:30
  And sometimes that is literally working until I fall asleep in front of my laptop on my couch.
• 47:36
  And sometimes that is like going to the pool with my friend.
• 47:39
  And sometimes it is sitting at home and staring at the wall in silence and just like decompressing.
• 47:46
  But the important thing is that whichever th of those things I'm doing, it's because it's serving like my vision and my highest self.
• 47:53
  Yeah, yeah.
• 47:54
  I I'm I'm just reminded of like, you know, just being able to go into every space and just this is just me.
• 47:59
  Take it or leave it.
• 48:00
  Yeah.
• 48:01
  Wherever I go, there I am.
• 48:03
  But like in a good way.
• 48:05
  Absolutely, absolutely.
• 48:06
  Because you know, you you bringing the most authentic version of yourself and you know, as you've alluded to a number of times, you're giving this to other people.
• 48:14
  You're allowing them to experience you, all of you.
• 48:17
  You know, it's just like wow, they I didn't even realize this facet of you existed.
• 48:21
  You know.
• 48:21
  Amazing, amazing.
• 48:25
  Monica, is there anything else you want to share with our audience before we call today?
• 48:29
  no, that's it.
• 48:29
  This has been such a good conversation.
• 48:31
  As always, thank you so much for having me on.
• 48:34
  and I would say like if you guys enjoyed this conversation, these are one of the things that I write about all the time on LinkedIn.
• 48:39
  You can find me there, Monica Stewart.
• 48:41
  send me a DM.
• 48:42
  I always love to hear from
• 48:42
  Outstanding.
• 48:43
  And I will make sure that in the show description we have linked we have access to your LinkedIn profile so folks can follow you.
• 48:50
  And folks, thank you so much for watching or listening to another episode of the Relentless Pursuit of Winning Podcast.
• 48:55
  We'll catch you next time.