Latest / No Appointment Necessary / The Recruitment Episode Every Clinic Owner Needs to Hear

Transcript

The Recruitment Episode Every Clinic Owner Needs to Hear · No Appointment Necessary

• 0:00
  Michael: Right, welcome to No Appointment Necessary.
• 0:02
  Michael: Today we are talking all things recruitment with Laura from Recruit Therapists.
• 0:07
  Michael: I met Laura Christ six months ago.
• 0:10
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 0:10
  SPEAKER_01: Along those lines.
• 0:12
  Michael: We met six months ago.
• 0:13
  Michael: I was very, very wary because anyone that knows me knows I'm wary about anybody in this industry.
• 0:19
  Michael: Um and we all know that recruitment for some clinics can be a huge problem.
• 0:24
  Michael: We know that um a lot of clinics struggle.
• 0:26
  Michael: We know that it's it's you know, there's a lot of there's a belief that there's a shortage of of MSK clinicians.
• 0:34
  Michael: And I'd been recommended to Laura by a couple of people who had said some nice things.
• 0:39
  Michael: So we I put through a very stringent test with one of our clients and she did really well.
• 0:44
  Michael: And since then, we're actually using her for some roles at HFDG.
• 0:48
  Michael: So hello Laura, do you want to quickly introduce it?
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so I'm Laura, Laura Gillam.
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_01: I'm the founder and co-director of Recruit Therapists, and we are doing perm and locum placements, and our predominant client base is the same as yours, Michael.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_01: So private clinics up and down the UK, popping off to the different parts of the world when we do.
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_01: And uh yeah, so I I'm really excited about this today.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_01: I'm a little bit nervous, but who thought I had a drama degree?
• 1:14
  Michael: Yeah, this is it.
• 1:14
  Michael: And Laura doesn't know what we're gonna be talking about because the way I running these podcasts is just to throw ideas and have a conversation and get some natural reactions stuff.
• 1:25
  Michael: So nothing prepared and and so on.
• 1:27
  Michael: But first thing I'm gonna start with is uh a bit of a bugbear of mine in the industry as a whole, which is people seeing everything as a cost.
• 1:36
  Michael: So, from our perspective, we have a lot of people that see marketing as a cost.
• 1:39
  Michael: They say, Oh my god, it costs a thousand pounds, that's so much money, and they forget that actually if you spend a thousand pounds, you make ten thousand pounds.
• 1:47
  Michael: It's like every pound you put in, you get ten pounds back.
• 1:50
  Michael: Yeah.
• 1:51
  Michael: And I think recruitment is the same.
• 1:52
  Michael: I think the corporate world, you know, you see that if you hire someone, it generates you X amount of return.
• 2:00
  Michael: And if it costs you a thousand pounds, ten thousand pounds, whatever, it's worth doing.
• 2:04
  Michael: But in this industry, I think you you face it all the time where people say all the time.
• 2:09
  Michael: My God, I can't afford it.
• 2:10
  Michael: It's so much money.
• 2:12
  Michael: I so speak to that a little bit.
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I think that is it, it says like a double side to that, because not only are we coming at it from gosh, law recruitment, it's really expensive, I can't afford you.
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_01: I haven't even had the conversation yet.
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_01: That's the first, that's the first battle I come into when I'm like trying to approach people and saying, you know, see you're advertising a job repeatedly, by the way.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_01: So you're still advertising a job that you were advertising a year ago, you've still not failed that position.
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_01: How many hours are you putting in?
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_01: Do you writing those adverts, do you putting them out across the jobs boards to get the same repeat nonsense back?
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, particularly in our sector, in in MSK physios for sure, you are being bombarded by, quite frankly, crappy CVs.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, they're really talented, they're great on CV, they're from different countries.
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_01: That's not what my clinics are looking for.
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_01: My clients want that UK, British experience under their belt.
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_01: So that's that's the first hard thing to find.
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_01: If this isn't what you're doing as your day job by trying to find that right MSK physio with five years experience that's also got Pilates, that by the way, is a driver because we live in nowhere.
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_01: It's really hard to do that.
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_01: That's that's my full-time job.
• 3:19
  SPEAKER_01: You know, so how many hours are you putting into that?
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_01: Are you putting in enough?
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_01: Probably not, because you can't.
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_01: You're running a clinic.
• 3:25
  Michael: Yeah, well, there's there's two elements to cost, aren't there?
• 3:27
  Michael: There's the first is exactly what you just spoke about, which is how many hours do you spend doing that recruitment yourself and failing miserably, and probably in the end hiring the wrong person because you it's all you can find.
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_01: Now we're in a rush, now we need someone, yeah.
• 3:41
  Michael: Exactly.
• 3:42
  Michael: You know, this applies to pretty much everything, whether it's accountancy, you know, I still know clinic owners that are trying to do their own books to save a few quid.
• 3:48
  Michael: Yeah.
• 3:48
  Michael: But then there's the other cost.
• 3:49
  Michael: And I can give you a real world example of a clinic who uh they are at the moment, in fact, it was a couple of months ago, they found someone now, but um, their clinician on average makes£500 a day.
• 4:00
  Michael: And across a week, five days, that's two and a half thousand.
• 4:02
  Michael: So across the the month, that's£10,000 of revenue.
• 4:07
  Michael: And they didn't want to pay a recruitment consultant because you know it's a lot of money, right?
• 4:11
  Michael: It's a few thousand pounds to hire someone.
• 4:12
  Michael: But when you think about it, well, you just lost£10,000 of revenue by not having someone for a month, and at the same time, you are helping the clinic around the down around the corner because all of those patients that you cannot see are now going to them.
• 4:25
  Michael: So there's a opportunity cost as well.
• 4:28
  Michael: And I think people often forget that.
• 4:29
  Michael: And and I, you know, I'm not suggesting for one second that recruitment and consultants are cheap, but when you look at both of those costs in terms of opportunity cost and cost of doing everything yourself, people should be paying the money.
• 4:43
  Michael: So I think it's an interesting point to start with, which is sometimes things aren't as expensive as you think they are, and sometimes you're not really saving any money at all.
• 4:53
  SPEAKER_01: No, and actually, you know, we've tried to cater our terms, for example, to suit every individual.
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, am I in it to make money?
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_01: Of course I am.
• 5:00
  SPEAKER_01: I've got to pay for a roof over my children's head as well.
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_01: But I'm not here to rip people off.
• 5:04
  SPEAKER_01: And that's the other thing, you know, that I wanted to speak about today is this persona that recruitment agents have.
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_01: I can't, we can't all be tied with the same brush, right?
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_01: You know, people buy into me because I'm super transparent.
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_01: If I don't think someone's got all the things on their wish list, I'm gonna highlight them before I've even sent them in for an interview because there's what's the point in getting to the end and going, oh, by the way, red flag that I didn't tell you about.
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it's the other concept is that in recruitment, obviously they all work differently, but you're not paying until you've found that perfect match, right?
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_01: It's almost like try before you buy, really.
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_01: There's no fees.
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_01: That's all on me.
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_01: I'm paying your adverts, I'm paying for all of the databases, I'm paying for all of that marketing that I do.
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_01: They haven't got to do any of those costs that they'd be doing independently.
• 5:51
  Michael: On the other hand, on the other hand, I I will say that um, and like with any industry, whether it's a physiotherapist, it doesn't really matter, a plumber, whatever, you get you do get a lot of bad apples.
• 6:02
  Michael: And I think generally my experience with recruitment consultants has been pretty poor.
• 6:06
  Michael: And on the whole, I don't like them very much.
• 6:09
  Michael: I think many of them are chancers.
• 6:10
  Michael: I think many of them don't really give a shit, and they will just throw whatever they hope sticks.
• 6:17
  Michael: But speaking to you, like I you just sent me a CV through, you were very honest about the person that you were sending through.
• 6:22
  Michael: The answer is a flat out no, by the way.
• 6:24
  Michael: I haven't responded to that yet.
• 6:25
  Michael: Right.
• 6:26
  Michael: It's a flat out no, not gonna look at that person, not interested.
• 6:30
  Michael: But the fact that you put that out there to begin with, I'm not wasting my time interviewing them.
• 6:34
  Michael: But most consultants don't do that, they will just throw it.
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_01: We're gonna shy away from there because actually, if we just get them to meet them, they might like them, and then and then we'll un you know, we'll we'll uncover that truth at that stage.
• 6:46
  SPEAKER_01: Like it's bollocks.
• 6:47
  SPEAKER_01: Get it out of the way now.
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_01: Let's save you time, me time.
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_01: Another reason I'm being hired is because you haven't got the time.
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_01: That's my job, right?
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_01: So when people are coming up going, we haven't had CVs for two weeks, because there's not been anything worth sharing with you, quite frankly.
• 7:01
  Michael: It's like that pain in the ass estate agent where you say, I want a four-bedroom house with a garden, it must have parking, and you they take you to a two-bedroom flat with no garden and no parking.
• 7:10
  Michael: You're like, why are the fucking showing me this?
• 7:12
  SPEAKER_01: It's gotten unsweet.
• 7:15
  Michael: And look at the walk-in wardrobe, and it's like, do I look like someone that wants that?
• 7:18
  Michael: So, yeah, I I do I do appreciate why people are very worried.
• 7:22
  Michael: But that's why, you know, you do your due diligence.
• 7:24
  Michael: You know, if I'm gonna see a physio or a plumber, I make sure I check reviews out.
• 7:28
  Michael: I try and get my testimonials from from other other clients.
• 7:33
  Michael: You've got plenty of those.
• 7:34
  Michael: So, okay, next topic, which is one that I find is is incredibly interesting in this industry.
• 7:40
  Michael: In every other industry I've worked in, particularly the corporate world, one of the most important things is culture.
• 7:46
  Michael: And it is how you retain staff, it is how you get staff in the first place, and culture is everything.
• 7:53
  Michael: And and you get the very top guys, you know, the the kind of the Googles and the Metas and the TikToks who create these incredible office, um, offices and these incredible benefits and everything else, and it just feels like you're going into a playground every day.
• 8:07
  Michael: But even some of the smaller companies, it's much more about, you know, how does the company feel?
• 8:13
  Michael: What is the company culture?
• 8:14
  Michael: What are they trying to achieve?
• 8:16
  Michael: And I see very little of that actually in um MSK clinics.
• 8:20
  Michael: Uh, there's I rarely see people really building a culture, and you know, you I I speak to someone and say, Well, what's your culture?
• 8:25
  Michael: And they say, Well, well, we go out for lunch once a quarter uh on a Friday afternoon.
• 8:30
  Michael: It's like, well, okay, that isn't really culture building.
• 8:33
  Michael: That's a nice little thing, and you know, uh great, you've made us work our asses off and we get pizza on uh Friday once a quarter.
• 8:40
  Michael: It's it's not it's not really culture and no one gives a shit about it.
• 8:43
  Michael: Uh but what do you see in terms of um the first of all, the relationship between uh a clinic with great culture and the ease of hiring and the ease of retention?
• 8:57
  Michael: But also, why do you think clinics don't really focus on culture very much at all?
• 9:02
  Michael: And then the third part of that actually is um, in my opinion, and what we certainly do, I don't ever look at skills first, I look at a personality first.
• 9:15
  Michael: The skills can often be taught, you can train people.
• 9:18
  Michael: And if the person doesn't fit into our culture, we don't hire them.
• 9:23
  Michael: You could be incredibly left-wing and whine about the the environment all the time.
• 9:28
  Michael: I'm sorry, you're probably not gonna get a job with this, or right wing and believe that, you know, well, I won't get into it.
• 9:33
  Michael: But the point is, you need to have a cultural fit as well.
• 9:35
  Michael: So talk me through culture and yeah, speak to those.
• 9:40
  SPEAKER_01: I think there's a really big, um, if I'm brutally honest, because I am, a really big discrepancy between what my candidates that I'm talking to are looking for now compared to when I first started this like what three years ago.
• 9:51
  SPEAKER_01: It's really changed.
• 9:53
  SPEAKER_01: This has become a major focus for what candidates are looking for.
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_01: And I don't feel like the private sector, I can't speak for the NHS, we're not involved with them.
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_01: What the private sector are missing is that trick.
• 10:04
  SPEAKER_01: And I don't know where the communication is lacking there.
• 10:07
  SPEAKER_01: Like they're obviously interviewing candidates themselves.
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe they're not brave being brave enough to say that that's what they need within their networking environment.
• 10:15
  SPEAKER_01: But so much corporate, so much, you know, rigid, so much looking what you you said there.
• 10:21
  SPEAKER_01: Um I don't look at a skills list, I don't look at qualifications.
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_01: Granted, in the physio land, we need some qualifications, we have to have our registrations in place, all that stuff.
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_01: But the important thing to me that I'm forever trying to drill home to the clients that I speak to is personality is key.
• 10:37
  SPEAKER_01: And they'll put it on their wish list.
• 10:39
  SPEAKER_01: You know, obviously, Laura, we need someone that's confident, they've got to be good with the patients, they've got to be good to fit in the stuff.
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_01: But it's I feel like it's me going in more to say to them, but what does that personality look like?
• 10:51
  SPEAKER_01: What do they get for their own sanity working in your team?
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_01: And so there's this sort of missing gap somewhere.
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_01: And so part of my job, particularly when I'm giving my adverts, I used to do the most dull, boring adverts, like I can't even tell you they're just, and so we need this, and they all look the bloody same.
• 11:09
  SPEAKER_01: So what why is that standing out?
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_01: So what we try to do is go, what's great about these guys?
• 11:15
  SPEAKER_01: Why do you want to work here?
• 11:16
  SPEAKER_01: Is it the team socials?
• 11:18
  SPEAKER_01: Amazingly, that is a really huge thing for people to just say, you know, going out for once once a month with the team is a big deal.
• 11:25
  SPEAKER_01: But that that culture in terms of I did a post, what was it, a week, two weeks ago, and it's just like it's the most successful post I've ever done.
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_01: And all it was was me just saying, you know, how important it is to be recognised, to be valued, to have to be heard.
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I've got ideas that I want to bring to the table.
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, brilliant, Bob.
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_01: Tell us those ideas.
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_01: Don't shut them down because that person could be the make or break between the next really exciting step for your clinic moving forward.
• 11:51
  SPEAKER_01: They might be a new grad, they might be super senior.
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_01: It doesn't matter about their skill set, it's about the ideas that they can bring and be valued for them.
• 12:00
  SPEAKER_01: So I think that's a really another important factor.
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_01: And also just, you know, putting in putting in the right people with the right team.
• 12:07
  SPEAKER_01: Not everyone is fun and crazy and sociable and all the things, right?
• 12:11
  SPEAKER_01: Some people like the more introverted characters.
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_01: That's not who I am, but I can work with those people.
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_01: And if you've got a clinic that is slightly old school, I can work with them as well because I know who they're looking for.
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_01: But in the main, where we're at in today's world, it's huge.
• 12:27
  SPEAKER_01: It's absolutely massive.
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_01: And if you don't have that, I mean, people like you, that's your job to try and encourage them to be that way.
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_01: And that's my job to encourage them to look at a different route, think outside the box.
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you've asked for this wish list, it's not realistic, and people want different things now.
• 12:43
  Michael: So yeah, I and I think it's sort of if you look at another thing, it's it's I keep hearing, you know, people are asking for too much money and so on and so forth.
• 12:52
  Michael: But actually, pay isn't everything.
• 12:54
  Michael: And you know, something about us is, and we've discussed this before, we offer so many different some monetary benefits, but but many not monetary benefits that sort of will bring people in who maybe want 10 or 20,000 pounds more, but they love what we do, they love what we offer, whether it is for women and maternity or whether it is the the trips that we do or the freedom that we give.
• 13:17
  Michael: Um, and I think that that you know I I know a lot of clinics that have no problem hiring whatsoever.
• 13:24
  Michael: They've got people approaching them daily and they're turning people away.
• 13:28
  Michael: Why is that?
• 13:28
  Michael: Well, they've really thought about the culture within the business, they've really thought about compensation beyond just pay.
• 13:35
  Michael: Um, they've really thought about what the business looks like from an external perspective to not just patients, but to also staff.
• 13:42
  Michael: Um, you know, whether that is the technology that they've got, whether that's how they've kitted out the clinic, whether that's, you know, is this place look like a really cool place to work?
• 13:51
  Michael: Um But why do you think so few, and maybe I'm wrong, and maybe I have a bias sample, but would you agree that too few clinics really think about that?
• 13:58
  Michael: And if so, why do you think they don't?
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_01: I think I think there's some traditionalists out there that go, well, this this is what we've been doing today, and this is how we do it, and this is what our patients like, and this is what our client base comes to us for.
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, that's great, that works for you, you've made a real success, you carry on your merry way.
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and without sounding big-headed, I am now being more selective of uh clients that I would represent, not because I'm like, you know what, I I can't do the job for you, it's because I want to also put candidates into roles that they're excited about.
• 14:31
  SPEAKER_01: I'm excited, I can deliver that excitement through the phone, and it's genuine excitement, i.e., I'm working on your role at the moment.
• 14:38
  SPEAKER_01: Bloody hell, I want your job.
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm excited to talk about that because it's got all of these great things going for it, your dynamic, your culture, they're the massive things that are coming up.
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_01: And when I'm speaking to people and you know, we are discussing salaries and things, I'm saying, you know, is it all about that?
• 14:53
  SPEAKER_01: Are you taking a pay card?
• 14:54
  SPEAKER_01: Are you taking a pay increase?
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_01: Is that relevant when you've got all these other things going for it?
• 15:00
  SPEAKER_01: And the answer is generally, as a rule, they're like, yeah, I'm I'm willing to forego a bit of that.
• 15:05
  SPEAKER_01: Now I'm probably gonna get some backlash because I've done a few posts where um it's talked about AHPs looking for more money.
• 15:12
  SPEAKER_01: And my argument to that would be, of course, we've all got roofs to pay over our heads.
• 15:17
  SPEAKER_01: But if that's your main priority, then I probably can't help you either, because there's gonna be things I.
• 15:35
  Michael: Yeah, if if we look at uh, you know, I could pick out any 300 job adverts right now, and every single one will say, I want a physio, these are the working hours, this is the pay, and that's it.
• 15:45
  Michael: It they all look like a fucking Brettamanger menu, all exactly the same, all really boring, not really selling the clinic.
• 15:51
  Michael: And one of the things that that that we know nowadays, especially in terms of marketing, it's not any it's no longer about selling a USP or a pro or a feature per se.
• 16:02
  Michael: It's about selling feelings, right?
• 16:03
  Michael: We get this in everything.
• 16:04
  Michael: I did I think I mentioned yeah, I saw the new Range Rover Sport advert, and there was, you know, then this beautiful countryside, and uh there's a woman that's sort of being a bit noisy.
• 16:13
  Michael: I mean, it's a terrible advert, really, but woman's being a bit noisy, and the guy's like, okay, whatever.
• 16:18
  Michael: He walks out, it's beautiful, autumnal, kind of, you know, leaves falling, and he gets into the car and he closes it and it's go silent, and then he drives off.
• 16:26
  Michael: And it's like this feeling of like it's a it's amazing.
• 16:29
  Michael: I want that feeling, right?
• 16:30
  Michael: It showed the car once, didn't talk about a single feature of the car, didn't do anything other than selling that feeling.
• 16:36
  Michael: And and I think we all want that, and we all want that, whether it's yeah, we're buying a nice, I don't know, renting a nice cottage or going to a hotel or a flight or whatever the case may be.
• 16:47
  Michael: And and I think a lot of clinics are forgetting that, that it's not just about this is the money, this is the location, this is whatever.
• 16:54
  Michael: I I mean, I know a lot of clinics, for example, that get patient, sorry, get client a Christ, my brain's gone, that get staff through because they offer a lot of responsibility.
• 17:05
  Michael: You know, you are responsible for this.
• 17:07
  Michael: We want you to grow this part of the business.
• 17:09
  Michael: We want you, we're not going to micromanage you.
• 17:11
  Michael: We're gonna give you all kinds of responsibility and some budgetary responsibility.
• 17:15
  Michael: If you want to buy some new toys, you can make that decision because this is your your role rather than you know, every other job advert being the same.
• 17:23
  Michael: All you're doing is you're walking into the room.
• 17:25
  Michael: And quite honestly, with many of them, it doesn't matter.
• 17:28
  Michael: You know, once you're inside that room, you don't know where you are in the country, what clinic you're working for, everything's pretty much the same.
• 17:34
  Michael: And so I think it's it's really important now for clinic owners who want to hire the best candidates to provide the best experience and the best feel for those candidates.
• 17:44
  Michael: Because otherwise, there's only so much you can do, right?
• 17:47
  Michael: Here's another fucking boring clinic that does exactly the same thing that bangs on about your attention rate and you've got to see patients X number of times.
• 17:56
  Michael: Yeah, it's just fun.
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_01: It's not fun.
• 17:59
  SPEAKER_01: And it's not I put it down to that trusty, you know, cliche as it is.
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_01: That's Sunday blues.
• 18:05
  SPEAKER_01: Are you getting to Sunday evening going, oh shit, I've got work tomorrow?
• 18:09
  SPEAKER_01: Like, okay, that's your checkout time off your pop.
• 18:11
  SPEAKER_01: Find something new because that's a crappy place to be.
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_01: I've been there in many career stops that that I've had and gone, I need I need to change this up now because this is just gonna get worse.
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_01: That isn't gonna get better.
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_01: They're not suddenly gonna change their culture and DNA of the of the clinic you're in.
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_01: That's that's what that is.
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_01: So make an executive decision to look, what is it that I want?
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_01: Is it more money?
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_01: Probably not.
• 18:34
  SPEAKER_01: If you, you know, you could be on a shed ton of money and still be getting Sunday blues.
• 18:39
  SPEAKER_01: That's that's speaking a lot of volume to me personally.
• 18:41
  Michael: Yeah, and I think I mentioned this to you.
• 18:44
  Michael: I I uh and you ask any of our staff that one of the founding principles of our business is I don't want anyone on a Sunday to be stressed or worried or having the Sunday scary is about going to work next day.
• 18:56
  Michael: We build everything around the fact that we want people to to on a Sunday think, oh great, it's work tomorrow.
• 19:02
  Michael: What are we gonna do?
• 19:03
  Michael: What's the challenge?
• 19:04
  Michael: What's the fun?
• 19:05
  Michael: And the moment you you have a a number of staff who think, oh, I just don't want to go in tomorrow, you've lost them and your attention rate's gone and and and it's it's just not good.
• 19:15
  Michael: And that's so it's so important.
• 19:17
  SPEAKER_01: That is proper spreading material right there.
• 19:19
  SPEAKER_01: Like one bad apple in there sets the whole car off, doesn't it?
• 19:23
  SPEAKER_01: So it's yeah, it's vital.
• 19:25
  Michael: Again, it comes down to comes down to that culture that you're providing and showing that you actually care about the team.
• 19:30
  Michael: You know, this is another thing.
• 19:31
  Michael: I I I see a lot of you know, from my perspective, if if I see people unhappy, I will figure out why, I will ask them why, and we will do our best to fix it.
• 19:41
  Michael: If people do say, Oh, I don't want to go, and we've had it, where where someone recently was like, I just I do not want to come into work.
• 19:47
  Michael: Why?
• 19:48
  Michael: These reasons, done, we'll fix it.
• 19:50
  Michael: Yeah, and and you know, that's another thing.
• 19:52
  Michael: It's just showing care for clinicians.
• 19:54
  Michael: And I feel like and maybe part of this is the contract, the nature of contracting in the industry, which I think is a ridiculous.
• 20:00
  Michael: Terrible thing, but that's a that's another topic, I think.
• 20:02
  Michael: Um, because well, we won't go into that now.
• 20:05
  Michael: But um, you know, you you need to care about the staff, and the more you invest in them, and again, not financially, but the more you invest in them, uh the more they're gonna invest in you.
• 20:15
  Michael: Yeah, if I if I called up the team on a Friday night at 11 pm, they'll all happily get on a zoom and and fix a problem.
• 20:23
  Michael: Why?
• 20:23
  Michael: Because we we offer we invest in them and and they know what they're getting as well.
• 20:27
  Michael: So it's an it's really open door policy, isn't it, Michael?
• 20:31
  SPEAKER_01: Ability to get can is somebody comfortable to come and approach me as their boss and say, this isn't this isn't quite working for me, actually.
• 20:39
  SPEAKER_01: The amount of candidates I speak to leaving their job now because they've tried to speak to their boss or manager and it's been shut down or it's been poo-pooed, and they're like, Okay, well, where do I go from that?
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_01: What's it again?
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_01: No room to grow, no room to have that conversation.
• 20:56
  SPEAKER_01: They could have retained that staff member, quite frankly, if they'd have sat down, had an open oise of conversation, and gone, okay, this is the problem.
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_01: Here's here's here's some ideas of how we can fix it.
• 21:06
  Michael: Yeah.
• 21:07
  Michael: Well, sticking on on the culture, just for one last question.
• 21:11
  Michael: Going back to that cultural fit of a clinician, I'm interested to know when a clinic owner approaches you or when you're working with one, what is the balance between I want a really high-level clinician with these skills and this, you know, this experience, and they must be a minimum, you know, whatever, band-aid or whatever it might be, versus I want them to be a really great character, I want them to be fun, I want them to be diligent, I want them to be accurate and on time, I want them to be a hard worker.
• 21:38
  Michael: So my feeling is the majority of clinic hosers really focus on the skill first, and then the second bit is like it's just secondary or tertiary.
• 21:48
  Michael: Whereas I think in most businesses it it's the other way around because you can teach skills, right?
• 21:52
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and I'm actually So so I've I've got my questions, right?
• 21:57
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm kind of shooting myself in the foot here because one of my questions is okay, in an ideal world, how many is experience you're looking at?
• 22:05
  SPEAKER_01: But that gives me it gives me the gist of where they're at.
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, that that tells me a lot of how easy am I going to find this to fill this role, and how hard is it gonna be to find this unicorn?
• 22:15
  SPEAKER_01: I refer to a lot of my AHPs as unicorns.
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and so you're absolutely right in what you say.
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_01: That absolutely comes first.
• 22:24
  SPEAKER_01: That wish list of the qualifications, the years of experience in that role, how many years that they need to have done this.
• 22:31
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, they've been a rotational, don't want them.
• 22:33
  SPEAKER_01: But you know, well, that was six years ago.
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_01: No, I don't want that.
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I just want MSK, but I want it in this, and you're like, bloody hell, like your your wish list is insane.
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_01: It's not realistic.
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_01: And that's where I build up the relationship with my client to say, look, you need to think a bit outside the box.
• 22:50
  SPEAKER_01: And when we've introduced candidates and they've gone, oh, I hadn't really thought of that.
• 22:54
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I'm not claiming to be a physio.
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not claiming to be able to go, I can ask them clinical questions and I know if they're good or not answers.
• 23:02
  SPEAKER_01: I can look at a bloody CV of a physio and say, that's a great CV.
• 23:06
  SPEAKER_01: But more importantly, I'll have an interview with that person before I've sent them to my client and said, What's your per?
• 23:11
  SPEAKER_01: Tell me a bit about you.
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_01: What's what's brought you into doing this?
• 23:14
  SPEAKER_01: Why does this job appeal to you?
• 23:16
  SPEAKER_01: That's all of me getting a feel for their what I call their DNA.
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_01: I've said it to you several times.
• 23:21
  SPEAKER_01: This one doesn't quite fit HMDG DNA because it's it's huge.
• 23:25
  SPEAKER_01: And so when I can represent a candidate, they've kind of got more hope of getting through that interview application or you know, interview process because I've been able to put forward my sixpence worth and said, you need to give this one a shot because they're too busy focusing on this wish list of qualifications, years experience.
• 23:45
  Michael: You see, that's really interesting because uh I I know many talent managers again outside of the industry, and they very rarely say, I need someone who went to Oxbridge, they must have a 2-1, they must have eight years experience in this particular thing and data analysis.
• 24:00
  Michael: Their primary goal is I want someone who's gonna fit in with the team.
• 24:04
  Michael: I want someone who is going to sometimes actually not be a mirror of what we've got, but be something a little bit different to add a different element to the team.
• 24:13
  Michael: So I see that a lot where uh I remember once a very big company, them saying we can't keep hiring white male middle class um people from Oxford because we're just gonna end up with no innovation and nothing different.
• 24:25
  Michael: So we actually want to hire some kind of crazy people, some some graffiti artists and and so on and so forth.
• 24:30
  Michael: It is interesting with this industry, um, and you just confirmed it, it is these are the this is the wish list of things I want.
• 24:36
  Michael: When when we spoke, I don't think I I said a thing about what I need their qualifications to be.
• 24:42
  Michael: I don't even care if they went to uni, I don't care about any of that.
• 24:44
  Michael: Are they a good person?
• 24:46
  Michael: Are they something something I I said to you was, can I go to the pub with them?
• 24:49
  Michael: Yeah.
• 24:50
  Michael: And if I can't, they're not coming into the business.
• 24:52
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 24:53
  Michael: And so I wonder whether life would be a lot easier for clinic owners if they stopped focusing on the wish list and more on the person.
• 25:01
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 25:03
  SPEAKER_01: I think you know, you've you've hit the nail on the head, and I can't tell you how bloody refreshing that call with you was.
• 25:08
  SPEAKER_01: We spoke for an hour for me getting the details of who you're looking for.
• 25:12
  SPEAKER_01: And literally, I was like, so any, you know, I'm used to asking those questions, what degree do we need?
• 25:17
  SPEAKER_01: What what qualifications?
• 25:18
  SPEAKER_01: How many years experience?
• 25:19
  SPEAKER_01: None of that came in.
• 25:20
  SPEAKER_01: You're like, find me a decent personality, find me a decent human that can interact with people.
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, wow, this is this is so refreshing.
• 25:27
  SPEAKER_01: I, you know, it is a completely different job that we're we're sorting for you took to our normal hands-on therapist.
• 25:33
  Michael: Well, yes and no.
• 25:34
  Michael: No, no, no.
• 25:35
  Michael: Let me sort you, yes and no.
• 25:36
  Michael: Here's the thing: if you focus on the qualifications, the degree, the the years of experience, and all of those things, doesn't matter if you're a physio or if you're a marketing person, it doesn't really matter.
• 25:47
  Michael: You are dealing with other people in your job.
• 25:50
  Michael: And if you are not focusing on someone's personality, who they are, how likable they are, what their characters like, you can have all the skills in the world, but patients will hate them.
• 26:00
  Michael: And our clients will hate them.
• 26:02
  Michael: I want people who, when a client talks to them, they go, This, uh, these guys are so nice, these are good guys, rather than oh my god, he's he's he's got a first from Oxford.
• 26:11
  Michael: Who gives a shit, right?
• 26:13
  Michael: And I think that the same goes for patients.
• 26:15
  Michael: I think there's patients doesn't know a good clinician from a bad clinician.
• 26:18
  Michael: Now, obviously, I'm not saying hire people who are awful because they can they've got a nice smile, but I think almost some extent, and and I'm sure there's gonna be a lot of clinic owners that that hit back at me on this, but I think it's more important to have someone who is likable and personable and kind and works hard than someone with great clinical skills because you can have all the best skills again and that you like, but a patient isn't gonna listen to them, they're gonna just think, oh, they're a dick and off you go.
• 26:46
  Michael: I think you get more buy-in from patients when you're a really nice person and not just someone who has a lot of you know, and rebookings as well.
• 26:53
  SPEAKER_01: They're they're going to be, I I really click with that physio.
• 26:56
  SPEAKER_01: I want to come back and see that particular he's not a fan.
• 26:58
  SPEAKER_01: No, I want that one.
• 26:59
  SPEAKER_01: You know, that's the person you want on your team.
• 27:01
  SPEAKER_01: That revenue that you can get from them because of their personality is huge.
• 27:05
  SPEAKER_01: Versus someone that hasn't got that, that's really good, hands-on therapist, great, they that you know, they've sorted my back right out.
• 27:12
  SPEAKER_01: I'm gonna go for the person that's made me laugh on the journey of being ouched all over because it really hurts, you know.
• 27:18
  SPEAKER_01: That's the person that I'm gonna be back to.
• 27:21
  Michael: And and what's interesting is whenever we're doing any kind of marketing or whether it's website building, whatever it might be, we always are very clear with clinics.
• 27:28
  Michael: When we put up the team photos and the team portfolio of of who's working there, I couldn't give two shits whether they got a first uh degree, whether what extra qualifications they've got.
• 27:39
  Michael: I want to know are they a mum?
• 27:41
  Michael: Um, do they have a dog?
• 27:42
  Michael: Do they, you know, this is people by people again.
• 27:46
  Michael: You know, you've never gone to your dentist and gone, oh, let me check where he went to university or what his qualifications are.
• 27:51
  Michael: You want to know other stuff.
• 27:52
  Michael: And the same applies to patients, right?
• 27:54
  Michael: It's it's I mean, we do it.
• 27:56
  Michael: You go to our team page, we don't talk about qualifications or who works where, we talk about what we enjoy doing.
• 28:02
  Michael: We put our personal pictures so you can see what we're like.
• 28:05
  Michael: And again, that's so important for patients and our customers, and everybody else's customers have said this to you as well.
• 28:11
  Michael: You know, people care about who you are, that you're a mum, that this is your business, and that you're you're fighting to, you know, this is the interesting stuff.
• 28:19
  Michael: Yeah.
• 28:19
  Michael: And and I think clinics should focus more on that.
• 28:22
  Michael: This takes us to the next thing.
• 28:23
  Michael: Because we've talked about pay, and maybe pay isn't always the most important thing.
• 28:27
  Michael: And quite honestly, if you know, if someone comes to us and says, and I we had this, someone's someone said this is the money I want, and this is the most important thing, well, in that case, you're actually not the right person for us, so goodbye.
• 28:39
  Michael: We don't want you.
• 28:40
  Michael: But saying all of that, I think there is a massive tendency right now for clinicians to hugely overvalue themselves.
• 28:47
  Michael: Um, I see it all the time where they're like, oh, I deserve£70,000 a year,£90,000 a year, or 65% of the of everything I bring in.
• 28:57
  Michael: And of course, because they're donuts, they don't actually know margins within clinics.
• 29:02
  Michael: They don't understand the economics of how a clinic works, so that actually, you know, they all think that the clinic owner's making millions of pounds and driving around in Ferrari when actually they're making fuck all and you simply they're often at a loss, their margins are just not there.
• 29:18
  Michael: And so this isn't like going to work for you know bar cap where it's like they make 20 trillion a year and you can negotiate an extra hundred grand.
• 29:25
  Michael: And and I think there's a lot of clinicians that don't understand that, they just throw out a number and say that's what I'm worth.
• 29:31
  Michael: How do you how do you counter that?
• 29:34
  Michael: How do you deal with that?
• 29:35
  SPEAKER_01: If I'm completely honest, there's some that you can't counter.
• 29:37
  SPEAKER_01: If if somebody's coming to me going, I want 85k, I'm like, you're you okay, for being a physio, that's that's a lot.
• 29:44
  SPEAKER_01: Where have we got that figure from?
• 29:45
  SPEAKER_01: They're like, Well, that's what I'm worth, that's what I can get.
• 29:47
  SPEAKER_01: And they're the they're the candidates that go, okay, well, I'm I'm probably not the agent to help you because I don't have those sorts of roles if I'm honest.
• 29:54
  SPEAKER_01: I don't, you know, I don't have a reel of vacancies that I can go, oh yeah, you'd be a great fit for that.
• 30:00
  SPEAKER_01: And also that to me, again, has some sort of heightened ego about it that I'm like, I you're probably not the person that the clinics I work with would probably want to entertain either.
• 30:12
  SPEAKER_01: So there's that aspect where I can't answer, where I I can't help those people, you know, they're too far out of my reach.
• 30:18
  SPEAKER_01: But in general, you know, for example, pods, okay, they're what we really do call unicorns because there are just so few of them.
• 30:26
  SPEAKER_01: And we've been putting out posts recently, like, where are they hiding?
• 30:29
  SPEAKER_01: But the expectation when a grad comes out, and it's not it's not just pods to be fair, but physios are more desperate, they're the complete opposite end because there's no jobs for new grads, right?
• 30:39
  SPEAKER_01: As in physio.
• 30:40
  SPEAKER_01: And so they're like, I'll work for pittance.
• 30:43
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, I don't want that for you either, actually.
• 30:45
  SPEAKER_01: The problem there is a different entity where clinics don't want to take on new grads, they want the experience.
• 30:51
  SPEAKER_01: That's a whole different path.
• 30:52
  SPEAKER_01: But a pod, for example, would come to me and and Billy, my my colleague.
• 30:57
  SPEAKER_01: I would like um 40k.
• 30:59
  SPEAKER_01: Have you just graduated?
• 31:00
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I know I graduate in summer.
• 31:02
  SPEAKER_01: So you've not even graduated.
• 31:03
  SPEAKER_01: You're asking me to find you with a 40k.
• 31:06
  SPEAKER_01: Now, the problem you've got there is that some clinics are that desperate that they'll do it.
• 31:12
  SPEAKER_01: Great, if I can find those clinics.
• 31:14
  SPEAKER_01: But at the same time, it's my job to rein in that expectation from a candidate to say, you're not there yet, right?
• 31:20
  SPEAKER_01: Most clinics pay is in line with the NHS banding, most of them.
• 31:25
  SPEAKER_01: We have a few that go above and beyond.
• 31:27
  SPEAKER_01: We have a few that cut down a little but have more, you know, in benefits, commission structures, etc.
• 31:33
  SPEAKER_01: And so when you're getting those candidates through, it's my job as an agent.
• 31:38
  SPEAKER_01: You know, a lot of clients go, oh, well, agents are out to screw us.
• 31:41
  SPEAKER_01: They just want to get the most salary for their candidates.
• 31:44
  SPEAKER_01: Of course, do I want to be paid more?
• 31:45
  SPEAKER_01: Of course I do, but I also want to make a right fit.
• 31:48
  SPEAKER_01: So if they're not the right fit for you, I'm not gonna place them with you because I'm gonna lose them and give you your money back in a rebate period.
• 31:55
  Michael: Well, well, also I think it's worth pointing out, uh don't want to get into the the the weeds in this, but in terms of the percentage that you're earning, getting an extra 10 grand as a wage is not exactly changing your life, right?
• 32:07
  Michael: Um you're not suddenly going to the Maldives on holidays.
• 32:09
  Michael: So I think misconception.
• 32:13
  Michael: Um yeah, it's interesting.
• 32:15
  Michael: I think there are a lot of clinicians that just overvalue themselves.
• 32:18
  Michael: And and again, maybe that's uh you know, that can be solved by clinic owners pushing the other benefits.
• 32:23
  Michael: It's like you know, if I was a 30-year-old woman who was looking at maybe having children relatively soon, I'm not leaving the NHS.
• 32:30
  Michael: You know, I I don't know what it offers now.
• 32:32
  Michael: What is it now?
• 32:33
  Michael: 20 years, 100% pay and time off, and you know, of course you're not going to match that.
• 32:38
  Michael: But there's lots of things you can match.
• 32:39
  Michael: And again, I don't think it's all about money.
• 32:41
  Michael: And if you've got someone that's just so money hungry that that's all that matters, they're probably not right fit for your clinic anyway.
• 32:47
  Michael: It's an interesting one because I think it sort of this sort of leads on to another question.
• 32:50
  Michael: I heard today and I heard yesterday that there is a huge issue in the industry, um, that there are simply not enough clinicians around and there's a massive recruitment problem.
• 33:02
  Michael: I don't believe it because I know plenty of clinics that, again, are turning away clinicians.
• 33:07
  Michael: I don't think there's a there's a volume problem.
• 33:10
  Michael: I think it's a clinic problem of clinics that don't recruit properly and don't know what they're doing.
• 33:17
  Michael: And, you know, a lot of the people that say, I just I've been I've I've spent the last nine months trying to hire someone.
• 33:22
  Michael: What have you done?
• 33:22
  Michael: Well, I put it on Physio Bob, I put an advert on Indeed, and I put it on LinkedIn, and I even put 10 quid behind it on LinkedIn, and you're like, well, yeah, this is like me saying that out, yeah.
• 33:35
  Michael: Well, it's like me saying, Well, I've really hurt my leg and nothing's helped.
• 33:38
  Michael: What have you tried?
• 33:39
  Michael: Well, I've put some deep heat on it for the last nine months.
• 33:42
  Michael: Like, come on.
• 33:43
  Michael: I the people are out there, you've just got to do the uh the best job to find them.
• 33:47
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 33:47
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that's that's again, and I shoot myself in the foot here, but transparency and all.
• 33:52
  SPEAKER_01: I think that's been a huge learning curve for me, right?
• 33:55
  SPEAKER_01: So when I started this, I've entered the health and well-being world, tickety-boo, lovely time.
• 34:00
  SPEAKER_01: I can find some physios.
• 34:02
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, shit, there's no physios.
• 34:03
  SPEAKER_01: What why have I entered this niche sector?
• 34:05
  SPEAKER_01: It's very niche where we started.
• 34:07
  SPEAKER_01: And what I have come to find is we were scrapping around for jobs.
• 34:10
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I say we, it was it was me to begin with, just scrapping around for jobs.
• 34:14
  SPEAKER_01: I'll take a job, I'll charge you peanuts, I'll just give me some work to again that trusty roof over my house needs to be there.
• 34:21
  SPEAKER_01: But now I can be more selective, not because you know, I'm raking it in, but because I've learned that actually I want to represent companies that are all the things that we've already talked about, that have that open door, the culture, that the paying the benefits to the right level that it needs to be.
• 34:38
  SPEAKER_01: All those things factor in for me.
• 34:40
  SPEAKER_01: So as much as I'm trying to sell the dream to um a new client and say, look, I can help you, I'll also say, actually, I can't help you because your wish list is too high, or you know, it I can't, I can't cater for that because you're in a complete black spot where I haven't got a lot of networked connections to physios.
• 34:58
  SPEAKER_01: But to me, what it's become is a real highlight to go, if I post an advert and it's exciting enough and it shows all the wonderful things we've talked about, I'm gonna get more applications through.
• 35:10
  SPEAKER_01: And actually, what I don't want to lead people to believe is because if they're doing the same thing as clinic owners and going, well, my adverts do say that.
• 35:17
  SPEAKER_01: Actually, Michael, advert applications are crap, right?
• 35:21
  SPEAKER_01: So we don't really get applications.
• 35:23
  SPEAKER_01: My job and Billy's job is to go out there and speak to people and network and go, how are you doing?
• 35:28
  SPEAKER_01: Softly, softly.
• 35:29
  SPEAKER_01: Are you open to exploring this?
• 35:31
  SPEAKER_01: And they're like, oh, that looks good.
• 35:32
  SPEAKER_01: I'd like to hear more.
• 35:33
  SPEAKER_01: We post adverts to have a presence.
• 35:35
  SPEAKER_01: We don't actually post adverts to expect applications.
• 35:38
  Michael: That's interesting because um I think most people think you post the advert and that's what gets the the the the person in or at least speaking to you.
• 35:48
  Michael: And I know that that isn't the case, and I know that some of this is people call themselves recruiting consultants all the time, they're more headhunters than anything else.
• 35:56
  Michael: But I wonder whether if the adverts were done in such a way, and let's say you had the the creative and the material, whether they could work.
• 36:04
  Michael: So, for example, uh when we put an advert out, we will put uh a couple of um team almost testimonials out where they've posted something and said, We did an amazing trip with the team to Ibiza last year.
• 36:17
  Michael: It was so much fun.
• 36:18
  Michael: Here's some pictures, just to give a bit of team um kind of input.
• 36:22
  Michael: Then we might do a video of some of the cool things that we do and some of the interesting things about us, and we'll actually include stuff that isn't just here's your wage, this is you know, it it's it's much more than that.
• 36:33
  Michael: We it's almost like if I had an Airbnb and I wanted to rent out an Airbnb, I would have lovely videos, I'd have pictures, I'd have, you know, routes to the local restaurants.
• 36:42
  Michael: Yeah.
• 36:42
  Michael: Do you find that clinics ever do that and offer you that kind of creative or that kind of material?
• 36:47
  Michael: And if they don't, do you think it's something that would be an interesting thing for them to do that would put them above everybody else?
• 36:53
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I I I I I don't think there's any doubt behind that at all.
• 36:57
  SPEAKER_01: Um, if you can showcase, you know, it's a showroom.
• 37:00
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you don't you don't buy a car and not go and see it.
• 37:04
  SPEAKER_01: You don't just go off of somebody's recommendation and go, oh, that's this is a great place to work.
• 37:09
  SPEAKER_01: It's all the things collected together that makes you're building a picture, you're seeing it visually, and you're reading about it, and you're going, This sounds, this looks something I want to be part of.
• 37:21
  SPEAKER_01: Those adverts that we see a hundred of them a million times a day are the ones that I used to do.
• 37:27
  SPEAKER_01: We're looking for this.
• 37:28
  SPEAKER_01: We're based here, and this is what we need, and these are the essentials, and this is desirable, and this is what you're gonna get.
• 37:34
  SPEAKER_01: Well, you're you you're not standing out.
• 37:36
  Michael: You know, do that fun stuff, show the team, show a social Well, Laura, the one way you and the only way you can stand out is by then offering more money than everybody else, right?
• 37:46
  Michael: So it it's almost like a vicious circle because you you put the same advert out as everyone else, and the only way you can put yourself above anyone else is by saying, Well, we pay more, right?
• 37:56
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 37:57
  SPEAKER_01: And I I think that that black and white process, that advert, if you've got a six-figure salary on there with all the other boring stuff that's on there, okay, that might grab your attention.
• 38:07
  SPEAKER_01: But if you've got all the wizzy stuff that makes you look modern, contemporary, like I'm not talking we've got to re-jig our whole clinic and everything and make have a paint up and all the stuff and have the modern technologies.
• 38:19
  SPEAKER_01: It's it is just building a, you know, is this a great place to physically be working in?
• 38:25
  SPEAKER_01: Am I in a cold dark cupboard of a room with dim lighting and no natural sunlight?
• 38:31
  SPEAKER_01: You know, those things, they're really important.
• 38:33
  SPEAKER_01: Your bloody mental health work, frankly, of you going to work every day.
• 38:37
  SPEAKER_01: So if you can put that on an advert and you can demonstrate, here's the outside of our clinic, isn't it?
• 38:42
  SPEAKER_01: Beautiful look at our view, we look across across we're a five-minute walk to the beach.
• 38:46
  SPEAKER_01: All those things are selling a package and it's it's a no-brainer, absolutely.
• 38:51
  Michael: Yeah, you're selling yourself.
• 38:52
  Michael: You're you're selling yourself.
• 38:54
  Michael: Okay, final question, completely related to that.
• 38:57
  Michael: I I wonder, and I don't know the answer, but I wonder how important social media is when you are recruiting.
• 39:03
  Michael: Um, I know I used to look at a company's social media.
• 39:06
  Michael: If I was looking for a job, I'd look at what their Instagram looked like, maybe not TikTok, but I imagine TikTok now.
• 39:12
  Michael: Um, and if you have nothing but a load of things that say we got a spare massage spot going tonight for 50 quid or, you know, here's the best ways of curing condition X.
• 39:23
  Michael: That probably I assume isn't as good as, hey, look at our cool team, here's some of the cool things we do.
• 39:29
  Michael: Because we know that from a marketing standpoint, actually showing off the business in that way is way better anyway.
• 39:34
  Michael: Yeah.
• 39:34
  Michael: But I assume that that really helps with recruitment too.
• 39:36
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it does.
• 39:37
  SPEAKER_01: And to be honest with you, I mean, you and I had have had a conversation where I need to up my game.
• 39:44
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm going to make more of a conscious effort to to do everything that I've just said.
• 39:49
  SPEAKER_01: Like take your own medicine, Laura, because I need to work on my market.
• 39:53
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I do think social media has a presence.
• 39:56
  SPEAKER_01: I think if if I was going for a job, would I be Looking at Facebook and Instagram and checking that they're posting every day.
• 40:03
  SPEAKER_01: No, I'd be looking at what's the value of that post bringing.
• 40:06
  SPEAKER_01: Does that inspire me to go, that looks fun?
• 40:09
  SPEAKER_01: Or I really like uh they've got this new innovative technology, or they look like a really great team to BBS.
• 40:15
  SPEAKER_01: So I do think there is a presence for that.
• 40:17
  SPEAKER_01: When it comes to social media, if we're talking about things networks, such as LinkedIn, I think if you're not on LinkedIn, I where have you been?
• 40:25
  SPEAKER_01: Like you need that is a huge networking platform there, literally geared towards the audience you want it to be.
• 40:32
  SPEAKER_01: Again, another life learn that I had was that I was just shooting out connections, being selective now, you know, like who do I need to target?
• 40:39
  SPEAKER_01: I need to target more band six physios because that's what my client wants at the moment.
• 40:43
  SPEAKER_01: I need to target pods because they're just unicorns that don't exist.
• 40:46
  SPEAKER_01: I need to target these particular clinicians because they're the ones I want to be representing because of all of those culture things.
• 40:54
  SPEAKER_01: So it comes full circle of what you should be doing out there.
• 40:58
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, you're the marketing expert, but to me, I've now learned I need to sell me.
• 41:03
  SPEAKER_01: Like I can sell me by myself, but I need to market my sales ability.
• 41:07
  SPEAKER_01: I think that's what you said to me the other day.
• 41:09
  SPEAKER_01: And he was like, You're shit at it.
• 41:10
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, Oh my god, yeah, I'm absolutely shit at it.
• 41:14
  Michael: Wasn't like that, was that that crash?
• 41:16
  Michael: Was that that we're shit at it?
• 41:17
  Michael: Just okay.
• 41:18
  Michael: Right, well, let's let's leave it there.
• 41:20
  Michael: We've got enough recruitment now.
• 41:21
  Michael: Um, I suppose let's do a final question.
• 41:25
  Michael: Just a fun one.
• 41:26
  Michael: If there was one tip you could give to any clinic to help them with their recruitment, other than hire me, um, what would it be?
• 41:36
  Michael: Or alternatively, what's the one thing that just makes you want to kill yourself every time you see a clinic do?
• 41:42
  Michael: Choose one for negative.
• 41:44
  SPEAKER_01: Let's go with what what they should do.
• 41:47
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, so absolutely use yourself as a shop window, not just the clinic, but you as an employer.
• 41:54
  SPEAKER_01: What presence are you delivering when you're interviewing somebody?
• 41:58
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, you're out to find the right person for you, but guess what?
• 42:00
  SPEAKER_01: That person needs to want to work with you as well.
• 42:02
  SPEAKER_01: If you're an arsehole, if you're stuck up your own self, if you've got nothing but clinical questions being thrown at, you've lost that person already.
• 42:12
  SPEAKER_01: You're not inspiring them at all.
• 42:13
  SPEAKER_01: You might be a god guru of font of all knowledge and they can learn some things from you, but I'm certainly not going to want to work for that person because you know get me out.
• 42:23
  SPEAKER_01: So you've got to market yourself, as do I, what you can bring to someone's table.
• 42:27
  SPEAKER_01: It's not just here's what I want, you know, it is that.
• 42:31
  SPEAKER_01: And if that is it, if people are coming back and giving feedback, and that's something else that a good agent will do.
• 42:37
  SPEAKER_01: If you're doing something wrong, I should be able to say, actually, that this is the feedback we're getting.
• 42:43
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe, maybe let's mix it up a bit and look at a new route of how we can do things differently.
• 42:48
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, I can help with that.
• 42:49
  SPEAKER_01: I can't help with everything, but I can point in the right directions.
• 42:52
  Michael: Okay, perfect.
• 42:53
  Michael: Let's leave it there.
• 42:54
  Michael: Anyone that wants to speak to Laura, uh, do a search on Google recruit therapists.
• 42:58
  Michael: She's very good.
• 42:58
  Michael: We've got lots of clients who have said very nice things.
• 43:02
  Michael: What's your email actually if people want to just throw you an email?
• 43:04
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, my direct one is Laura at recruit therapists.co.uk.
• 43:09
  SPEAKER_01: And if you look at it written down, it was a it was a bad decision that we now stand by.
• 43:14
  Michael: Anything with therapists.
• 43:15
  Michael: We've we've we've uh Yeah.
• 43:18
  Michael: And by the way, I don't for anyone who hasn't this before, I don't generally promote people.
• 43:23
  Michael: In fact, I very rarely do.
• 43:25
  Michael: Uh this isn't supposed to be a promotion thing, but uh you've done a good job for lots of clients.
• 43:29
  Michael: And I know I know that uh it you know, lots of people are having struggles trying to hire people.
• 43:33
  Michael: So um if Laura can help the yeah, get in touch.
• 43:36
  Michael: We'd love to.
• 43:37
  Michael: Thank you very much, Laura.
• 43:38
  Michael: Lovely chatting.
• 43:39
  Michael: Hopefully it wasn't too scary for you just having No, it's a lovely time.
• 43:42
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I I was expecting a lot worse, Mark.
• 43:44
  Michael: There you go.
• 43:45
  Michael: Told you.
• 43:45
  Michael: All right, thanks very much, Laura.
• 43:47
  Michael: Cheers everyone.