Latest / New Worlder / Episode 112: Martin Rosberg

Transcript

Episode 112: Martin Rosberg · New Worlder

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_00: This is the New Order Podcast and I am one of your hosts, Nicholas Gill.
• 0:04
  SPEAKER_00: Co-host Juliana Duque will be joining shortly.
• 0:08
  SPEAKER_00: Today we are speaking with Martin Rosberg.
• 0:11
  SPEAKER_00: Martin is a natural cheesemaker that lives in Colonia,
• 0:16
  SPEAKER_00: Uruguay,
• 0:17
  SPEAKER_00: a small community across the Rio de la Plata from Buenos Aires,
• 0:21
  SPEAKER_00: Argentina.
• 0:23
  He is Argentine and he once ran a boutique hotel and restaurant
• 0:28
  in Palermo in Buenos Aires.
• 0:30
  But he moved away years ago to find a quieter life on a small
• 0:34
  farm with his family.
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_00: He built a few stilted houses that he still rents on Airbnb.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_00: Then he gradually started making things.
• 0:43
  He started making breads and eventually a few cheeses just kind
• 0:47
  of to give to the
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_00: guests that were staying there.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_00: But he really fell down the cheese rabbit hole.
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_00: This led him to the world of natural cheese making,
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_00: which is kind of like natural wine,
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_00: but with cheese,
• 1:00
  using traditional methods with natural cultures and without
• 1:03
  expensive equipment.
• 1:05
  It's essentially how cheesemaking was done for 8,000 years
• 1:09
  until about a century
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_00: ago when modern practices entered into the craft.
• 1:14
  Martin now makes 20 kinds-ish of natural cheeses from his farm
• 1:19
  in Uruguay.
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_00: Several of them are his own unique styles,
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_00: while others are kind of following other well-known cheeses.
• 1:27
  cheese styles from around the world he also teaches workshops
• 1:31
  on natural cheese
• 1:32
  making and gives tastings all over the world including at his
• 1:37
  farm so you can go
• 1:38
  there or he'll come to you so martin has been a good friend of
• 1:43
  mine for 15 years or
• 1:45
  so maybe i'm not even sure anymore he used to be clean shaven
• 1:49
  and wear suits
• 1:51
  Now he has this burly cheesemaker on a farm with all these
• 1:54
  crazy cheeses.
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_00: Anyway,
• 1:56
  he was leading a few workshops at the very beautiful Colts Foot
• 2:00
  Valley Farm in
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_00: Cornwall,
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_00: Connecticut,
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_00: which is a small dairy farm and makes its own cheese.
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_00: And it wasn't that far from me.
• 2:07
  So I went and I drove there and I picked him up and he stayed
• 2:11
  at my house for a
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_00: couple of days on his way back to New York City,
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_00: where he was flying home from.
• 2:16
  and also was uh giving a tasting and one of the most
• 2:20
  connecticut things ever
• 2:21
  happened on the drive to my house so two cars got into an
• 2:26
  accident trying to
• 2:28
  navigate the ins and outs of a covered bridge and we just had
• 2:31
  to like sit there and
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_00: watch it for 20 minutes and
• 2:34
  SPEAKER_00: It was it was kind of funny and it was very scenic.
• 2:39
  And then back at my place,
• 2:40
  we,
• 2:41
  of course,
• 2:41
  tasted some cheeses and drank wine.
• 2:44
  But we decided to do this somewhat sporadic podcast
• 2:47
  conversation from my barn,
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_00: which is where I always record while Juliana was able to join by laptop,
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_00: just kind of like set up in front of the couch.
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_00: And Martin was one of the first guests on this podcast.
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I don't even know what episode.
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_00: And it's always good to hear from him.
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_00: But it was nice recording the conversation in person in the barn.
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_00: He's the first person to do that after 112 episodes.
• 3:13
  SPEAKER_00: And it made it feel like we were recording in a studio in some ways.
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_00: And maybe one day it could develop into one.
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_00: It just needs some time.
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_00: Kind of like a cheese.
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_00: If you haven't subscribed to my newsletter,
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_00: just go to newworlder.com or search for New Worlder on Substack.
• 3:31
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• 3:32
  The paid subscribers get access to all of the content and the
• 3:35
  back archives.
• 3:36
  again that's newwater.com also look for my books such as the
• 3:41
  latin american
• 3:42
  cookbook at small bookstores everywhere also check out our new
• 3:47
  water youtube
• 3:48
  channel we have full episodes there as well as some clips and
• 3:52
  other video content
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_00: i'll put this one up there it's a
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know how it's going to even work out.
• 3:58
  I haven't edited it yet because it's Julie on the laptop and us
• 4:04
  sitting on a couch.
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_00: I'll figure it out.
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah, it'll be there.
• 4:07
  SPEAKER_00: Just go to youtube.com slash newworlder and you'll see it.
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_00: And please subscribe, like us, and share us.
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_00: It actually helps when you just hit the like or the star button.
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_00: you know, just like hit pause and do it right now.
• 4:21
  SPEAKER_00: It's seriously, it helps us get listened to.
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_00: And, and yeah, thank you.
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_00: Enjoy the show.
• 4:27
  Yeah.
• 5:11
  SPEAKER_00: Hey, Julie.
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_02: Hi.
• 5:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so this is the first time we're doing this.
• 5:17
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not even sure how to set up.
• 5:18
  SPEAKER_00: What do we do?
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so Martin Rosberg is here in my barn at my house.
• 5:26
  SPEAKER_03: I felt a disadvantage here.
• 5:27
  SPEAKER_03: I'm so jealous of you guys.
• 5:30
  It's funny because I feel like I'm interviewing you because I'm
• 5:33
  used to talking to
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_00: people through the...
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_03: Well,
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_03: remember you're not.
• 5:38
  yeah hey so so martin is here he was passing through
• 5:43
  connecticut which is like you
• 5:45
  were giving what were you doing exactly why don't you explain i
• 5:48
  was uh teaching
• 5:49
  SPEAKER_01: cheese making yeah where in a farm in cornwall what's it called uh goats
• 5:57
  SPEAKER_01: You were there?
• 5:57
  SPEAKER_01: We never heard the name.
• 6:01
  SPEAKER_01: We just made the cheese.
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_00: Coltsfoot Valley Farm.
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's not that easy.
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_01: Coltsfoot Valley Farm.
• 6:09
  SPEAKER_00: In Cornwall, Connecticut.
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 6:11
  And they're starting a new dairy there and they want me to come
• 6:15
  over and help them
• 6:16
  SPEAKER_01: out and teach a little bit.
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_01: So that's what we did.
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_00: So you taught how many classes?
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_01: I did two classes and one tasting.
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_00: So you brought cheeses from Uruguay.
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 6:27
  SPEAKER_00: Was it hard to get them in?
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, just to clear them.
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_01: And they come vacuum sealed, it's okay.
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_01: Actually, they always ask, is it just cheese?
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_01: I reply, what do you mean?
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_01: It's just cheese.
• 6:37
  SPEAKER_01: It's just cheese.
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_03: I love that.
• 6:41
  SPEAKER_03: It's just cheese.
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_03: That tells a lot of how people say cheese, I guess, right?
• 6:46
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 6:47
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 6:47
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 6:51
  SPEAKER_01: and meat mostly.
• 6:53
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 6:55
  But when they say,
• 6:56
  you think when they say just cheese is we are lacking a main
• 7:00
  theme here?
• 7:00
  No,
• 7:02
  I think they really worry about beef because it can carry way
• 7:06
  more diseases and also fruits.
• 7:09
  SPEAKER_01: So cheese is something that is not high of a dangerous category for them.
• 7:15
  SPEAKER_01: So they're okay.
• 7:15
  SPEAKER_01: In terms of spreading disease.
• 7:17
  SPEAKER_00: Spread disease.
• 7:18
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 7:18
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 7:19
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 7:19
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 7:21
  SPEAKER_01: So how were the classes?
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_01: Very good.
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_01: Very good.
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 7:29
  SPEAKER_01: It was fun.
• 7:30
  SPEAKER_01: You go to someone else's dairy,
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_01: you have different equipment and different milk,
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  SPEAKER_01: and you have to adapt everything to their place.
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  SPEAKER_00: And it was fun.
• 7:41
  SPEAKER_00: It was good.
• 7:41
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_00: Cool.
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_00: And the people were excited?
• 7:44
  SPEAKER_01: It was super excited.
• 7:45
  SPEAKER_01: We had people from New York and from here.
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  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 7:49
  SPEAKER_00: Were they there specifically because of natural cheese making,
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_00: or was it just...
• 7:53
  SPEAKER_00: Some of them were.
• 7:54
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 7:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, some of them were.
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_01: The rest of the days I've been just making cheese with Tommy.
• 7:59
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so they're just starting their dairy.
• 8:03
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
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  SPEAKER_00: Is it hard to start a dairy?
• 8:06
  SPEAKER_00: Very.
• 8:07
  SPEAKER_00: Like a small dairy, especially, like they're all disappearing.
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  SPEAKER_00: Yes, at least.
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know about...
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_01: Especially if you have your own cattle,
• 8:15
  SPEAKER_01: it's very hard because you need to...
• 8:17
  Learn how to manage cattle and have a place for them to live in
• 8:21
  the winter.
• 8:22
  And then figure out how you're going to make cheeses every day
• 8:26
  if you make natural cheeses.
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  SPEAKER_01: High-quality cheeses are made every day.
• 8:30
  So you need to figure that out,
• 8:31
  how it works into the schedule of the farm.
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  SPEAKER_01: So it's not that easy.
• 8:37
  SPEAKER_00: What about these people taking the classes?
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  SPEAKER_00: What kind of cheeses are you teaching them?
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_01: for contest style and the blue cheese that we make nearby.
• 8:55
  These are things people can make in their house or do they have
• 8:57
  like a barn or a farm?
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  SPEAKER_01: They can make it in my home with a small scale, no problem.
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  SPEAKER_01: They just need good fresh milk.
• 9:07
  SPEAKER_00: So you just need access to raw milk.
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  SPEAKER_00: I think we just happened to drive through a raw milk country.
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  SPEAKER_00: We passed four places that said raw milk signs.
• 9:29
  SPEAKER_00: I don't see that where I live here.
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  SPEAKER_00: I think it's quite common.
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  SPEAKER_00: I didn't know that.
• 9:40
  SPEAKER_00: I could make raw milk cheeses here.
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_00: Natural cheeses.
• 9:44
  SPEAKER_03: I'm curious of that.
• 9:45
  SPEAKER_03: How
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_03: interested people are in doing this?
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_03: What is your main audience?
• 9:51
  Because one thing is to the gastronomic aspect of it and how to
• 9:57
  pair cheeses and
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_03: how to eat them and how to appreciate them and get to know them.
• 10:02
  A different level of interest is I want to have my own
• 10:06
  cheesemaking domestic thing.
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  SPEAKER_03: I wonder who is interested in that.
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_01: Well,
• 10:20
  cheese is made to serve it better and also to make some of
• 10:24
  their own sometimes yeah
• 10:26
  we have cheese fanatics that they can get the cheese they want
• 10:30
  i mean we all want a
• 10:31
  very good camembert right okay well you cannot have that in the
• 10:36
  u.s unless you make
• 10:37
  it for yourself it's not 60 days old you cannot sell it no so
• 10:43
  if you make your own
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  SPEAKER_01: it's legal to make your own just
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_01: and learn about that.
• 10:49
  SPEAKER_01: In Latin America,
• 10:50
  I get a lot of people just trying to learn how to make ramen
• 10:54
  cheeses because
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_01: they're even less common over there.
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  SPEAKER_01: Mostly it's people that travel,
• 10:59
  SPEAKER_01: they've been abroad,
• 11:00
  they've tried best dishes in France and Italy and Spain and
• 11:04
  they just want to make
• 11:05
  SPEAKER_01: them.
• 11:06
  And then you also have cheesemakers that want to transition
• 11:09
  into natural cheesemakers.
• 11:13
  it's a wine now natural wine and it was for bread and it went
• 11:16
  back now it's you
• 11:18
  know natural ways of fermenting coffee before you toss it so
• 11:21
  it's uh so it's a
• 11:23
  variety of yeah different different missions objectives explain
• 11:28
  what is natural
• 11:29
  SPEAKER_00: cheese maybe how is the difference um so
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_01: that were all natural.
• 11:52
  So they worked with the same ferments present in the milk,
• 11:55
  same bacteria present in the milk.
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_01: So the ferments came just from the milk.
• 11:59
  And they were usually on the recipe of the recipients where
• 12:02
  they make the cheese,
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_01: just present there.
• 12:05
  As they milked every day,
• 12:07
  they were managing like a sourdough in that surface.
• 12:16
  delapsed because it started pasteurizing and we selected
• 12:20
  different materials to
• 12:21
  SPEAKER_01: make different cheeses so the flavors of the cheeses you can buy now are
• 12:25
  commercially available most of them come from a bacteria that
• 12:29
  is developed to give
• 12:31
  them that flavor it's not the flavor of the milk or the natural
• 12:33
  fermentation okay
• 12:35
  SPEAKER_01: so natural cheesemaking is making cheeses the way they were made 8 000
• 12:51
  SPEAKER_01: sourdough, but with milk.
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_01: The ferment's just from the milk.
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_01: And then the rennet and salt.
• 12:59
  SPEAKER_01: That's it.
• 13:00
  And with just those ingredients,
• 13:01
  you can make pretty much any cheese you don't.
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_01: And they taste more of the old ways, of the old cheeses.
• 13:09
  SPEAKER_00: Where do you get like a natural starter?
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_00: You can start your own.
• 13:15
  SPEAKER_01: How would you do that with cheese?
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_01: Well, the same way you start a sourdough
• 13:22
  starter you instead of using flour and water uses milk so you
• 13:27
  get raw milk and you
• 13:28
  let it ferment for 48 hours until it curdles because the
• 13:34
  original ferments are
• 13:35
  present in the milk they're there for the for the babies to to
• 13:40
  help them digest the
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_01: milk and once you have that you you start a feeding process like you said
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_01: away from the cheese to keep the fermentation going.
• 14:00
  But I'm guessing you are selective about the milk you used to
• 14:03
  start with,
• 14:04
  right?
• 14:05
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it has to be good milk from healthy animals.
• 14:10
  SPEAKER_01: And mainly it has to be warm still from the udder.
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_01: Because that's the highest quality of milk.
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_01: You have almost no bacteria in the milk at that time.
• 14:26
  And when time passes,
• 14:27
  you get more and more bacterial development in the milk.
• 14:30
  SPEAKER_03: External, yeah.
• 14:30
  Or even if you cool down,
• 14:32
  you know,
• 14:33
  there are certain bacteria that develop in cold weather.
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_01: So in the cold environment.
• 14:39
  SPEAKER_01: So lysteria and miscarpia coli still develop in the cold environment.
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_03: Uh-huh.
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_01: So you need it fresh, fresh, fresh.
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_01: And that's how the best cheese in the world can make.
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_01: Like the salineados, the blue de tarmignano, all these
• 15:07
  The weld we're making,
• 15:09
  we just add the starter and the ready to make the change right
• 15:12
  away.
• 15:12
  SPEAKER_01: So you don't let it go at all.
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_01: And that way you don't
• 15:17
  SPEAKER_01: the good stuff.
• 15:19
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_00: Now,
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_00: I was just thinking like,
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_00: yeah,
• 15:22
  maybe I could just drive the Connecticut and buy the raw milk
• 15:25
  from the dairies.
• 15:27
  SPEAKER_00: You can.
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_00: But would it be too cold by the time I got here?
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_00: You know, an hour away?
• 15:32
  A little bit too cold because you can add your starters when
• 15:35
  you get there.
• 15:35
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_01: So it starts the fermentation in the way.
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_01: And when you get here, you just warm it up a little bit.
• 15:42
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 15:42
  SPEAKER_01: And it won't affect the
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_01: I'm fermenting for a couple of hours.
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_00: But I'd have to,
• 15:53
  SPEAKER_00: because I'm assuming what they're selling,
• 15:55
  SPEAKER_00: all these signs on the side of the road,
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_00: it's not straight out of the oven.
• 15:59
  SPEAKER_00: No.
• 15:59
  SPEAKER_00: It's like I'm not going to like, it's not like cook to order.
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_00: No.
• 16:03
  SPEAKER_00: Like to arrange it.
• 16:04
  I don't like pull up and be like,
• 16:05
  I'd like some raw milk and then just squeeze it out.
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_01: No.
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_01: You can always buy raw milk and make it out of that.
• 16:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 16:12
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe that's good.
• 16:13
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_03: How, I mean, you made all this journey yourself.
• 16:18
  SPEAKER_03: Can you tell us about that?
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_03: Because you went through the whole thing that you are teaching now.
• 16:23
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 16:24
  Basically,
• 16:25
  I live in a farm and I was,
• 16:27
  I had worked in recent business many years in Europe.
• 16:31
  So I tasted some of the best cheeses in the world over there
• 16:33
  when I was young.
• 16:35
  SPEAKER_01: And I moved back to South America and really missed the cheeses.
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_01: I just said, well, what can I do?
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_01: And I really said,
• 16:45
  SPEAKER_01: well,
• 16:46
  I want to learn how to make cheese because I miss the cheese I
• 16:48
  had when I was in
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_01: Europe.
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_01: And there's no way I can get them.
• 16:53
  So I just bought the books that looked more interesting,
• 16:57
  most interesting about cheese.
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_01: And I bought them and started reading them.
• 17:02
  Amongst them,
• 17:03
  there was a David Asher's book,
• 17:06
  The Art of Natural Cheese Making.
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_01: And he teaches the book, How to Make Natural Cheeses.
• 17:14
  So I started just buying four milliliters of raw milk and
• 17:17
  making two little camemberts.
• 17:19
  SPEAKER_01: And I was lucky enough to have a couple of nice cheeses in the beginning.
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_01: So I knew it was possible to make nice cheeses.
• 17:27
  SPEAKER_01: And then I started just developing cheesemaking for me and my family,
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_01: basically,
• 17:33
  SPEAKER_01: until the pandemic.
• 17:35
  And then we just built the dairy and we started making cheese
• 17:39
  on a bigger scale.
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_01: Still a tiny scale, but bigger than what it was.
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_01: And we developed all the range of cheeses we're making now,
• 17:46
  SPEAKER_01: which is more than 20 different cheeses.
• 17:51
  SPEAKER_00: So what cheeses are there right now?
• 17:53
  SPEAKER_00: Because when you started with just Camembert.
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, just with Camembert, which is the thing that is the most.
• 18:00
  SPEAKER_01: So now we make Camembert, of course.
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_01: We also make Lactic cheeses in San Marzano, Epoise.
• 18:09
  SPEAKER_01: We make...
• 18:11
  Mature lactic cheeses that are not common in Europe,
• 18:15
  but we develop some.
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_01: We make halpan cheeses in different styles,
• 18:18
  SPEAKER_01: more like a Comté and more like a Parpétit d'Argillard.
• 18:25
  SPEAKER_01: We make English-style cheeses, cheddar, Wednesdaydale.
• 18:29
  SPEAKER_01: We make blue cheeses,
• 18:31
  SPEAKER_01: both like the Breu de Termignon style and the French style,
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_01: more like a Roquefort,
• 18:37
  SPEAKER_01: but more like cow's milk.
• 18:39
  SPEAKER_01: We have Promolas.
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 18:44
  SPEAKER_00: And these are all going where?
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_00: Like, where are you selling these?
• 18:47
  SPEAKER_01: I have a little club in Montevideo.
• 18:51
  SPEAKER_01: About 35 to 40 people a moment.
• 18:53
  SPEAKER_01: I send them, like, boxes.
• 18:55
  SPEAKER_01: I actually bring the boxes to Montevideo.
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_01: Go to a friend who has a bar.
• 18:59
  SPEAKER_01: People come to a bar.
• 19:01
  SPEAKER_01: And it's like a cheese.
• 19:03
  SPEAKER_01: The cheese box.
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_00: I was just talking to you on before this.
• 19:07
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I could move to Uruguay.
• 19:10
  SPEAKER_00: Like it's, it's so now like politically it's still stable or is it?
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 19:19
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, I know what is happening in the rest of the world.
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_03: The rest of the world.
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_03: One of the most stable places right now.
• 19:27
  SPEAKER_03: So yes, I'll say.
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_01: Nothing really changes much, which is a good thing.
• 19:33
  SPEAKER_01: Nothing.
• 19:33
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_00: But it's like the only place.
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, exactly.
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_01: Can we, can we go?
• 19:40
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, yes, welcome.
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_01: It's an open country.
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_01: We welcome people.
• 19:45
  Are you exploring or have you explored with Uruguayan cheeses
• 19:49
  or Argentinian
• 19:50
  SPEAKER_03: cheeses or other South American?
• 19:52
  SPEAKER_01: Not so much.
• 19:53
  I mean,
• 19:53
  Uruguayan and Argentinian cheeses are just developments of
• 19:57
  European cheese.
• 19:58
  SPEAKER_01: They all come from the same European culture.
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_01: And I just don't want to make the same cheese the industry is making.
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_01: When I make Camembert, I say, well, this is not just Camembert.
• 20:14
  SPEAKER_01: This is always Camembert.
• 20:16
  SPEAKER_01: Because now the Camembert is like fresh cheese.
• 20:20
  SPEAKER_01: They have some fungus on top, and that's it.
• 20:23
  SPEAKER_01: It's really fast to go into market.
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_01: So it's very different to the classical, old, antique Camembert.
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_01: So I just try not to do whatever else everyone is doing.
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_01: Marapine style, a little bit
• 20:45
  most most cheese in the area yeah yeah did people tell you
• 20:50
  about uh paipa cheese in
• 20:53
  colombia yeah yeah yeah it's nice nice i like the colombian
• 20:59
  cheese is really nice
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_03: is it not overrated it's a simple cheese
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_01: whole region are simple because this is the needs of the dairy farmers.
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_01: The hardest
• 21:32
  SPEAKER_01: more or less mature for short terms of time.
• 21:35
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I think it's more because it's our only semi-mature cheese.
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_03: So I think that's why.
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_03: But it's also,
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_03: there is a point in how locally made it is,
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_03: you know,
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_03: the different communities that are doing the terroir thing.
• 21:51
  I think there is a point about that with the milk they use and
• 21:55
  the specific flavor
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_03: of the region.
• 21:58
  But,
• 21:59
  yeah,
• 22:00
  I always wonder about that,
• 22:01
  like in international standards,
• 22:03
  how good it really is.
• 22:06
  You know,
• 22:06
  it tastes good,
• 22:08
  it's special,
• 22:08
  but...
• 22:09
  Yeah,
• 22:10
  it's a simple cheese.
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_01: I mean,
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_03: it's not...
• 22:13
  SPEAKER_01: I find that young French cheeses are not...
• 22:17
  SPEAKER_01: Most of the flavor in the cheese comes from the bacteria,
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_01: the fungus,
• 22:23
  SPEAKER_01: and the yeasts developing in time.
• 22:27
  So if you have a fresh cheese and it's just a couple of weeks
• 22:31
  old or a month old,
• 22:33
  SPEAKER_01: you need more time to develop stronger flavors.
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_01: I mean,
• 22:37
  SPEAKER_01: not all cheese has to be very strong in flavor,
• 22:40
  but the reason why I get called from Colombia when there are
• 22:42
  three times the cheese
• 22:43
  SPEAKER_01: making is because they want to learn how to make this European cheeses.
• 22:47
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 22:48
  SPEAKER_01: Culturally, they were lost there because there was no need to make them.
• 22:51
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 22:51
  SPEAKER_03: And is there all the process of how the bacteria develop or I don't know,
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_03: they just change during the process?
• 23:01
  SPEAKER_03: Is it true that they are more digestive?
• 23:03
  Because I have noticed myself that because I haven't lived in
• 23:08
  Colombia for years,
• 23:10
  SPEAKER_03: I eat less fresh cheese.
• 23:12
  Now I eat more mature cheese and I notice I have less tolerance
• 23:16
  to fresh cheeses.
• 23:19
  SPEAKER_03: They're heavy for me now.
• 23:21
  SPEAKER_03: I wonder.
• 23:22
  SPEAKER_01: Fresh cheeses have a lot of lactose.
• 23:25
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, that's fine.
• 23:26
  SPEAKER_01: Lactose is the sugars of the milk.
• 23:28
  SPEAKER_01: And when you eat your cheese,
• 23:30
  lactose goes down and down and down because it keeps on
• 23:33
  converting into lactic
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_01: acid.
• 23:35
  So if you eat a very mature cheese,
• 23:37
  a two-year-old cheese,
• 23:38
  there's no lactose at all.
• 23:41
  SPEAKER_01: So there's...
• 23:47
  SPEAKER_01: More mature cheeses are going to be easier to ingest.
• 23:49
  SPEAKER_03: Easier, yeah.
• 23:51
  Yeah.
• 23:51
  SPEAKER_03: Huh.
• 23:53
  SPEAKER_01: Well.
• 23:53
  SPEAKER_01: Natural cheesemaking,
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_01: what we do when we make cheeses,
• 23:56
  SPEAKER_01: we copy the same process that we as babies do with our mother's milk.
• 24:01
  SPEAKER_01: So all of us are cheesemakers at the beginning.
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_01: We take our mother's milk,
• 24:04
  SPEAKER_01: and in our stomach,
• 24:06
  SPEAKER_01: we acidify it,
• 24:08
  SPEAKER_01: we curdle it with our own enzyme,
• 24:11
  SPEAKER_01: and then we make cheese out of it to assimilate it better.
• 24:17
  SPEAKER_01: make natural cheese, except that we ferment it to get it acidified.
• 24:22
  SPEAKER_01: It was the same enzyme that we use as babies,
• 24:25
  SPEAKER_01: and all mamas used to make cheese of the balanced milk.
• 24:29
  And we cut the curds like our stomach cuts the curds to make
• 24:32
  cheese,
• 24:33
  and we take the whey off.
• 24:35
  SPEAKER_01: So when you're eating a good cheese, you're eating a predigested milk.
• 24:41
  SPEAKER_01: that's really good for you.
• 24:42
  SPEAKER_01: It's like, you can seal it really well.
• 24:44
  SPEAKER_01: The milk we can't, we cannot curl the milk in our stomachs anymore.
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_01: We adults, we're not babies.
• 24:50
  There is something about your project too and I like to
• 24:55
  highlight that because it's
• 24:56
  SPEAKER_03: such a good example of
• 24:58
  how something can develop organically and that shows in the
• 25:04
  ways you talk about it.
• 25:06
  SPEAKER_03: For me, such a good example of a good use of social media.
• 25:11
  SPEAKER_03: If it's not my favorite Instagram page,
• 25:14
  SPEAKER_03: I don't know which one is because seriously,
• 25:16
  SPEAKER_03: it's so,
• 25:17
  SPEAKER_03: it feels so genuine.
• 25:19
  SPEAKER_03: It's like you forget you are in social media when I see your videos.
• 25:25
  SPEAKER_03: It's educative.
• 25:27
  SPEAKER_03: It's fun.
• 25:28
  SPEAKER_03: It's provocative because, you know, it looks so good.
• 25:33
  So I know you don't have a strategy for this,
• 25:36
  but I just,
• 25:37
  it's such a positive example of,
• 25:41
  SPEAKER_03: It's possible to do this if you have an honest,
• 25:44
  SPEAKER_03: organic project that has grown according to values,
• 25:48
  SPEAKER_03: a setting.
• 25:49
  SPEAKER_03: It's coherent.
• 25:52
  SPEAKER_03: I love that.
• 25:54
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you.
• 25:54
  I think I did a good job showing my process of learning how to
• 26:02
  make cheese.
• 26:03
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 26:04
  SPEAKER_01: Just for eight years now.
• 26:05
  SPEAKER_01: I know Nick from, I don't know, 20 years almost now.
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_01: And I wasn't making cheese when I met him.
• 26:10
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, like you should have seen him when I met him.
• 26:13
  SPEAKER_00: Like he wore suits and things.
• 26:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, basically.
• 26:15
  SPEAKER_00: I quit everything and just make cheese now.
• 26:19
  SPEAKER_01: But I think part of the process of
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_01: Showing how things go well and they don't go so well.
• 26:39
  SPEAKER_01: And helping people out with their own projects.
• 26:43
  I get tons of messages from cheese makers saying,
• 26:45
  well,
• 26:45
  this isn't working.
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_01: What can I do better?
• 26:47
  SPEAKER_01: Well, just be generous and help them out.
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_01: And try to share all your successes and also your mistakes.
• 26:54
  SPEAKER_01: Because that's good for everyone.
• 26:57
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 26:58
  SPEAKER_03: It is magnetic.
• 27:01
  SPEAKER_03: But I think it's this...
• 27:04
  SPEAKER_03: I don't know.
• 27:05
  SPEAKER_03: It feels so simple and natural as the cheese is, right?
• 27:11
  SPEAKER_03: What about the breads that you show?
• 27:13
  SPEAKER_03: Because those are my favorite breads too,
• 27:16
  SPEAKER_03: the thin ones,
• 27:17
  SPEAKER_03: the European ones that are like,
• 27:19
  SPEAKER_03: and the pairing with the right cheese and the right jam is like seven.
• 27:25
  SPEAKER_03: Did you buy them or did you make them?
• 27:28
  SPEAKER_01: Before I made cheese, I baked breads.
• 27:31
  SPEAKER_01: I was a baker before I was a cheeseburger.
• 27:34
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 27:35
  SPEAKER_00: You don't mean like a bakery?
• 27:37
  SPEAKER_00: No.
• 27:39
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 27:40
  SPEAKER_01: I built a wood fire oven.
• 27:44
  SPEAKER_01: I made sardos and different breads.
• 27:47
  SPEAKER_01: And we still make breads every week on the farm.
• 27:50
  SPEAKER_01: I make breads at the farm.
• 27:55
  SPEAKER_01: of home-baked breads and cheeses.
• 27:58
  SPEAKER_01: And the thing with breads is up to a point,
• 28:01
  I started getting bored because I had the bread I liked and
• 28:06
  didn't want to create
• 28:07
  SPEAKER_01: anything else.
• 28:09
  SPEAKER_01: And cheese gives you the chance to really create the same ingredient,
• 28:14
  SPEAKER_01: making all these different cheeses.
• 28:16
  SPEAKER_01: It's just amazing.
• 28:18
  SPEAKER_01: I think there's nothing like it.
• 28:19
  SPEAKER_01: There's nothing like it.
• 28:21
  SPEAKER_00: What's the bread that you like now?
• 28:23
  SPEAKER_01: I like it slowly fermented.
• 28:31
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah,
• 28:32
  SPEAKER_01: two-day fermentation,
• 28:33
  SPEAKER_01: Italian Udobe's,
• 28:35
  SPEAKER_01: white bread,
• 28:36
  SPEAKER_01: and I like my sourdough rye bread with no sugars and no grease.
• 28:46
  SPEAKER_01: Sometimes with some seeds in them.
• 28:48
  SPEAKER_01: But that sourdough also in two days of fermentation.
• 28:53
  SPEAKER_01: I really like those too.
• 28:54
  SPEAKER_01: Those are my bread right now.
• 29:00
  and then working with a bakery in long island on a book but
• 29:03
  they have a pickled rye
• 29:05
  bread so it has like little bits of pickles in it nice so it's
• 29:08
  amazing like it's
• 29:11
  it's i think it's something rare but it's something original
• 29:15
  but yeah it's so good
• 29:17
  SPEAKER_01: nice nice yeah we i just
• 29:22
  SPEAKER_01: I'm doing toasted hazelnuts on the rye bread.
• 29:25
  SPEAKER_00: On the outside?
• 29:26
  SPEAKER_00: No, on the inside.
• 29:27
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, okay.
• 29:28
  SPEAKER_01: And then you toast it.
• 29:29
  SPEAKER_01: It has all these smells of the hazelnuts.
• 29:32
  SPEAKER_01: It's super nice.
• 29:33
  SPEAKER_01: But, I don't know.
• 29:35
  SPEAKER_01: We're going to rye.
• 29:36
  SPEAKER_03: Do you know how to make bread, cheese, and jam?
• 29:40
  SPEAKER_03: You'll survive everywhere, basically.
• 29:42
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, yes.
• 29:44
  SPEAKER_03: You're pretty much, you'll be okay.
• 29:48
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 29:48
  SPEAKER_03: When did you get those rye crackers?
• 29:54
  SPEAKER_01: Rye crackers.
• 29:55
  SPEAKER_01: I'm making them down with rye bread,
• 29:56
  SPEAKER_01: so we cut them really thin,
• 29:59
  SPEAKER_01: and then we bake them in the oven,
• 30:01
  SPEAKER_01: dry them.
• 30:03
  SPEAKER_01: They're super nice.
• 30:06
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 30:06
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 30:06
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 30:09
  SPEAKER_01: Half of what I'm eating right now.
• 30:11
  When I'm alone at home,
• 30:12
  it's just a piece of that with some cheese and I'm done.
• 30:16
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 30:17
  SPEAKER_03: Exactly.
• 30:18
  SPEAKER_01: Breakfast.
• 30:18
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 30:19
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 30:21
  SPEAKER_03: Coffee maybe.
• 30:21
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 30:22
  SPEAKER_01: Do you drink mate?
• 30:30
  SPEAKER_01: No, I did for a long time, but I started having too much acidity.
• 30:33
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, yeah, it's awesome.
• 30:36
  SPEAKER_01: I drank too much when I drank.
• 30:37
  SPEAKER_01: It was like a liter.
• 30:37
  SPEAKER_01: It just wasn't good.
• 30:39
  SPEAKER_01: I can't really pace myself, so I stopped.
• 30:42
  SPEAKER_03: In which state of the process do you taste things?
• 30:46
  Like,
• 30:46
  do you actually taste the milk and then...
• 30:49
  You taste it every bit of the process.
• 30:51
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, our taste buds are a great...
• 30:56
  SPEAKER_01: great way to detect problems with cheese making.
• 31:01
  So from the starter to the milk to the curds as they go
• 31:07
  acidifying,
• 31:08
  you can taste it.
• 31:09
  SPEAKER_01: And we do.
• 31:11
  SPEAKER_01: We also test acidity and other things, but we taste it very, very often.
• 31:17
  And then once the cheese is in the aging process,
• 31:21
  we also get a special knife in and
• 31:30
  SPEAKER_01: So you haven't been, Nick, yet?
• 31:38
  No,
• 31:39
  I've been to his farm,
• 31:40
  but it was when you first moved there,
• 31:42
  I think.
• 31:43
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 31:44
  SPEAKER_00: Within a year or two.
• 31:45
  SPEAKER_00: So that was, like, what?
• 31:47
  SPEAKER_00: How long have you been there?
• 31:49
  SPEAKER_00: 14 years.
• 31:50
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so it's probably, like,
• 31:54
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I want to say it was like 10, 11 years ago.
• 31:55
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 31:56
  SPEAKER_00: About 11.
• 31:56
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 31:57
  SPEAKER_00: Almost 12, maybe.
• 31:59
  SPEAKER_00: I wasn't there full-time.
• 32:00
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I was there full-time.
• 32:01
  SPEAKER_01: I was still working in borsares.
• 32:02
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 32:03
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I remember that.
• 32:06
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah, you weren't making cheese there.
• 32:07
  SPEAKER_00: You just started with bread, I think.
• 32:09
  SPEAKER_00: We just started with bread.
• 32:11
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, but what were you even doing?
• 32:13
  SPEAKER_00: Were you even renting out the rooms yet?
• 32:16
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe we just started.
• 32:17
  SPEAKER_00: I think you just built a couple.
• 32:18
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, we have a couple of tree houses that we rent.
• 32:21
  SPEAKER_02: Wow.
• 32:22
  SPEAKER_01: We just started with that.
• 32:24
  SPEAKER_01: I quit everything.
• 32:24
  SPEAKER_01: That was my plan B. Just quit.
• 32:28
  SPEAKER_01: So I was managing .
• 32:29
  SPEAKER_01: I quit everything.
• 32:31
  SPEAKER_01: They said, OK, we're going to build houses.
• 32:34
  SPEAKER_01: We're going to rent this tree in three years.
• 32:37
  SPEAKER_01: That'll be it.
• 32:38
  SPEAKER_01: And it was.
• 32:40
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 32:41
  SPEAKER_01: But then what happened?
• 32:42
  SPEAKER_00: You got bored?
• 32:43
  SPEAKER_01: I got bored because, you know, renting houses is boring in the end.
• 32:48
  And they started making birds,
• 32:49
  and they're making cheese,
• 32:50
  and the houses came to a second place.
• 32:54
  SPEAKER_03: How much of the project you'll say happens there?
• 32:58
  SPEAKER_03: How much people go to you and how much you go to people to...
• 33:02
  SPEAKER_03: It's like...
• 33:05
  SPEAKER_01: Well,
• 33:05
  more and more of bringing people to the farm for cheese making
• 33:09
  and for cheese
• 33:10
  SPEAKER_01: things,
• 33:10
  SPEAKER_01: including dinners,
• 33:15
  and wine tastings with the cheese and main courses too so we we
• 33:20
  started to do that
• 33:20
  every month now and uh classes cheese making classes every
• 33:25
  month the second month
• 33:26
  too so we try to bring the people to the farm yeah instead of
• 33:29
  me going out so much
• 33:31
  SPEAKER_01: because it's time
• 33:33
  SPEAKER_01: but it's not something I want to do all the time.
• 33:37
  SPEAKER_03: And you cannot take all the knowledge with you,
• 33:40
  SPEAKER_03: whereas if you're there,
• 33:41
  SPEAKER_03: people go there,
• 33:42
  SPEAKER_03: they can actually see.
• 33:43
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's different.
• 33:44
  You can come to my eating centers and see the cheese there,
• 33:48
  and place them there.
• 33:50
  SPEAKER_01: We can make smaller groups.
• 33:52
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 33:52
  SPEAKER_01: Instead of having 20 people, you have to eat people there.
• 33:55
  SPEAKER_01: You can come for a whole weekend, so we make cheese several times.
• 34:00
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 34:02
  good because it brings also life to the place yeah yeah if
• 34:07
  you're just going away
• 34:08
  the place is just slowly dying yeah yeah yeah but we were
• 34:14
  talking earlier like
• 34:16
  maybe you'll do more events and open it up and just have other
• 34:20
  kinds of yeah you
• 34:22
  know making yeah yeah no i think i'd be cool i could see a
• 34:28
  fermentation festival or
• 34:31
  SPEAKER_00: or,
• 34:31
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 34:31
  SPEAKER_00: not with a festival or whatever,
• 34:33
  SPEAKER_00: like workshops or...
• 34:36
  SPEAKER_01: I've also come to some cooks or friends,
• 34:40
  SPEAKER_01: chefs and cooks,
• 34:42
  to come and do dinners and pasta making classes and bread
• 34:48
  baking classes and just
• 34:49
  SPEAKER_01: open up more like a center of knowledge,
• 34:52
  SPEAKER_01: not just cheese.
• 34:54
  SPEAKER_01: So, it's slow, you know, we are a tiny team and
• 35:00
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 35:00
  SPEAKER_01: We need to do it a little bit, but it's common.
• 35:03
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's great.
• 35:05
  SPEAKER_01: And everything we do there, we can always add cheese to it.
• 35:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 35:08
  SPEAKER_01: So we make very bad cheese.
• 35:10
  SPEAKER_01: If we make pasta, we add cheese.
• 35:13
  SPEAKER_01: It's like, I think that's why the ships are so happy to come.
• 35:16
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, hey, yeah.
• 35:17
  SPEAKER_00: Plus there's wine around.
• 35:18
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, it's easy to bring wine.
• 35:20
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, shit.
• 35:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 35:21
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, do wine tastings there.
• 35:23
  SPEAKER_00: There's very blind wine.
• 35:24
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 35:25
  SPEAKER_01: I'm working closely now with one winery there.
• 35:28
  SPEAKER_01: It's a family at Acres, and we make it
• 35:39
  SPEAKER_03: I went to Gruger in Switzerland.
• 35:43
  SPEAKER_03: It's the town of Gruger.
• 35:45
  SPEAKER_03: And I went to one of the factories.
• 35:48
  SPEAKER_03: But I couldn't tell how industrialized it is.
• 35:52
  SPEAKER_03: You know,
• 35:53
  SPEAKER_03: I don't have that sense of,
• 35:54
  SPEAKER_03: I mean,
• 35:55
  SPEAKER_03: I saw they obviously have equipment and it's very touristic.
• 36:01
  SPEAKER_03: I couldn't tell.
• 36:02
  SPEAKER_03: I guess it's like medium,
• 36:05
  SPEAKER_03: you know,
• 36:05
  SPEAKER_03: it's semi,
• 36:06
  SPEAKER_03: it's halfway,
• 36:06
  SPEAKER_03: it's not completely artisanal,
• 36:08
  SPEAKER_03: but it's not this huge,
• 36:10
  SPEAKER_03: you know,
• 36:10
  SPEAKER_03: it's not industry.
• 36:13
  SPEAKER_03: But yeah, I mean, it tasted good, but I don't know.
• 36:17
  SPEAKER_03: I didn't feel that connection necessarily.
• 36:21
  SPEAKER_03: It was just,
• 36:23
  SPEAKER_03: I guess,
• 36:23
  SPEAKER_03: interesting because the town is called that way and,
• 36:25
  SPEAKER_03: you know,
• 36:26
  SPEAKER_03: it's beautiful because it's Switzerland,
• 36:28
  SPEAKER_03: but...
• 36:29
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 36:29
  SPEAKER_03: Have you heard about it or similar?
• 36:32
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah,
• 36:32
  SPEAKER_01: you have Gruyere and then you have Gruyere del Pache,
• 36:35
  SPEAKER_01: which is the one that is made up the mountains.
• 36:37
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 36:38
  SPEAKER_01: That's another thing.
• 36:39
  SPEAKER_01: It's like, that's not a factory.
• 36:42
  SPEAKER_01: No.
• 36:42
  SPEAKER_01: You said, I went to this cheese factory.
• 36:44
  SPEAKER_01: It's like, well, factory for cheese?
• 36:46
  SPEAKER_01: Shouldn't it be a farm?
• 36:48
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 36:49
  SPEAKER_01: Well, dairy.
• 36:50
  SPEAKER_01: But understand what you say.
• 36:51
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, most cheese
• 36:54
  SPEAKER_01: It could bring meal from all over the place.
• 36:56
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it was not a farm.
• 36:57
  SPEAKER_03: I wouldn't say it's a farm.
• 36:59
  SPEAKER_01: It's a, yeah.
• 37:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, factor.
• 37:01
  SPEAKER_00: But like Parmesan, right?
• 37:03
  Like I've seen photos of all this cheese,
• 37:05
  like the warehouse is full of it.
• 37:25
  but smaller with warmer milk is going to be better as time goes
• 37:30
  by with the milk
• 37:31
  still liquid it degrades it oxidizes itself it loses quality
• 37:39
  for protein and fats
• 37:41
  and cream so it's not the same you can still make good cheese
• 37:46
  but it's better
• 37:47
  SPEAKER_03: better but not more than cream
• 37:51
  SPEAKER_01: Still,
• 37:52
  SPEAKER_01: in France,
• 37:52
  SPEAKER_01: in Switzerland,
• 37:53
  SPEAKER_01: usually all the regulations for the PDOs,
• 37:57
  SPEAKER_01: they have milk from close to the farm from the same region.
• 38:02
  SPEAKER_01: Because it's better for the cheese.
• 38:06
  SPEAKER_01: The milk is closed and it's just been milked.
• 38:10
  SPEAKER_03: Is there something you haven't mastered yet?
• 38:12
  Like a challenge you have and you are working on it and you
• 38:16
  consider it out?
• 38:18
  SPEAKER_01: I'm working on a bigger...
• 38:20
  SPEAKER_01: the bigger dairy,
• 38:22
  SPEAKER_01: maybe,
• 38:22
  SPEAKER_01: to make a little bit bigger cheeses,
• 38:24
  SPEAKER_01: like going a bit like 25-kilo cheeses instead of 7-kilo cheeses,
• 38:29
  SPEAKER_01: the biggest we make right now.
• 38:31
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 38:33
  SPEAKER_01: So that I haven't mastered.
• 38:34
  And it's going to be,
• 38:34
  you know,
• 38:35
  you change the scale,
• 38:36
  everything changes a little bit.
• 38:39
  SPEAKER_00: Is that common in natural cheese making, that size?
• 38:42
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 38:42
  SPEAKER_00: It's a perfect size for now.
• 38:43
  SPEAKER_00: OK.
• 38:44
  SPEAKER_01: So usually that's why it contains 5 kilos.
• 38:46
  SPEAKER_01: And it's about that size.
• 38:49
  SPEAKER_01: So it's great for that.
• 38:50
  SPEAKER_01: And to age over two years.
• 38:53
  SPEAKER_00: But to age for two years, that means you need a lot of space.
• 38:56
  SPEAKER_00: Like bigger cheeses and a lot of time.
• 38:59
  SPEAKER_00: What are you going to do?
• 39:02
  SPEAKER_01: We're talking about with this winery.
• 39:04
  SPEAKER_01: We're going to open a new dairy with them at the winery together.
• 39:09
  So I think we're going to start with just maturing some of the
• 39:14
  wine cheeses.
• 39:15
  SPEAKER_01: And then if we get along well and we
• 39:17
  SPEAKER_00: than you could expect.
• 39:18
  SPEAKER_01: You could expect to make it that.
• 39:20
  SPEAKER_01: But I don't know.
• 39:21
  SPEAKER_01: There's always cheeses that you want to make.
• 39:23
  SPEAKER_01: There's like so many cheeses, so little time.
• 39:25
  SPEAKER_01: To get to a nice cheese, it takes time to develop it.
• 39:30
  SPEAKER_01: You find those little tricks that make it really good.
• 39:33
  SPEAKER_00: I could see a t-shirt of that,
• 39:35
  SPEAKER_00: like,
• 39:35
  SPEAKER_00: so many cheeses,
• 39:36
  SPEAKER_00: so little time,
• 39:37
  SPEAKER_00: and a picture of your face on it.
• 39:38
  SPEAKER_00: Like, you could still give them at, like, the workshops.
• 39:42
  SPEAKER_03: I can see the raspberry label.
• 39:44
  SPEAKER_00: The catchphrase, yeah.
• 39:48
  SPEAKER_01: No,
• 39:50
  SPEAKER_03: I think in 200 years we'll have the Rosberg label,
• 39:55
  SPEAKER_03: you know,
• 39:56
  SPEAKER_03: tradition and,
• 39:58
  SPEAKER_03: you know,
• 39:58
  SPEAKER_03: just something like that.
• 39:59
  SPEAKER_03: I was asked,
• 40:00
  SPEAKER_01: this trip I was asked by some serious,
• 40:03
  SPEAKER_01: it's like,
• 40:03
  SPEAKER_01: well,
• 40:04
  SPEAKER_01: do you have some sort of certification for natural cheese making?
• 40:08
  SPEAKER_01: Like you have the wines that are biodynamic or something?
• 40:11
  I just said,
• 40:12
  well,
• 40:12
  we should have it because otherwise it would just be another
• 40:15
  sourdough
• 40:17
  SPEAKER_01: label on things that are not really traditional.
• 40:20
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know, I have to figure out a way to do it.
• 40:22
  SPEAKER_00: In cheese shops, do they ever label if it's natural cheese, just as raw?
• 40:28
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, very few cheese makers.
• 40:29
  SPEAKER_00: But is all raw milk cheese natural?
• 40:32
  SPEAKER_01: No, no, at all.
• 40:34
  And even artisanal cheeses now are made with industrial
• 40:38
  techniques,
• 40:39
  industrial solders.
• 40:40
  SPEAKER_01: Sometimes raw milk, but sometimes it isn't.
• 40:43
  SPEAKER_01: Most of it, artisanal cheese in Argentina and Uruguay is made with
• 40:49
  industrial so there's really no way of knowing unless you so
• 40:53
  far yeah unless you
• 40:54
  ask in in the in the ingredients should say pasteurized milk or
• 41:00
  raw milk even raw
• 41:01
  milk you get sometimes if you if you bring it up to 60 degrees
• 41:05
  Celsius which is
• 41:08
  like a low way of pasteurizing it's not pasteurization it's
• 41:12
  close you can still say
• 41:14
  SPEAKER_01: it's raw milk it's not the same
• 41:22
  SPEAKER_01: It brings up to 60 degrees Celsius.
• 41:24
  SPEAKER_01: You kill a little bit of bacteria.
• 41:26
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 41:26
  So it's probably the shit I saw and that we saw on the road,
• 41:30
  like from the places we passed.
• 41:31
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 41:32
  SPEAKER_00: No, no, just the raw milk, all the science for raw milk.
• 41:37
  SPEAKER_01: No, that's raw milk, raw milk.
• 41:38
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, okay.
• 41:38
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 41:39
  SPEAKER_01: This is too big cheese.
• 41:42
  SPEAKER_03: How do you study for all this?
• 41:44
  SPEAKER_03: What are your main sources?
• 41:46
  SPEAKER_01: Well, partially with David Asher, who teaches cell
• 41:55
  SPEAKER_01: He was teaching, I was translating, so partially with him.
• 42:00
  And then just reading books and trying to find videos of old
• 42:03
  grannies making cheese
• 42:04
  SPEAKER_01: in Spain or guys making cheese in there.
• 42:16
  SPEAKER_01: Because the fermentation is always the same,
• 42:18
  SPEAKER_01: so you start your make with your milk,
• 42:20
  SPEAKER_01: you add the starter and the rennet,
• 42:23
  SPEAKER_01: and then it comes from how to make good cheese from that,
• 42:26
  SPEAKER_01: cut the curds bigger or smaller,
• 42:28
  SPEAKER_01: salt it earlier or later,
• 42:31
  SPEAKER_01: press it or not press it,
• 42:32
  SPEAKER_01: cook it or not cook it.
• 42:33
  So you're always trying to figure out exactly how these cheese
• 42:38
  were made 150 years ago.
• 42:40
  So partially it's reading and partially it's just experimenting
• 42:43
  and see what works
• 42:44
  SPEAKER_01: for the cheese.
• 42:45
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 42:46
  SPEAKER_03: And colleagues, right?
• 42:47
  SPEAKER_03: Just being in touch with.
• 42:48
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
• 42:50
  SPEAKER_01: A couple of years ago,
• 42:52
  SPEAKER_01: I went to teach in Sardinia with Samuel,
• 42:56
  SPEAKER_01: a cheese maker from Sinos,
• 42:58
  SPEAKER_01: and we made pecorino salad.
• 43:07
  SPEAKER_01: So from next year,
• 43:08
  I'm trying to be more teaching in Europe because it's always
• 43:13
  cool to go and show
• 43:15
  the British how the French do things and the Spanish how the
• 43:18
  Italians do things
• 43:19
  SPEAKER_01: because they don't share so much.
• 43:21
  SPEAKER_01: And we, as Uruguayans, we can go and just be... We have all the cultures.
• 43:29
  SPEAKER_01: We are open.
• 43:31
  SPEAKER_01: We are open to the world.
• 43:37
  SPEAKER_03: Well, tell me if I've made this up.
• 43:40
  SPEAKER_03: I have felt that I got some umami flavors when I combine,
• 43:48
  SPEAKER_03: but it's just like spontaneous,
• 43:50
  SPEAKER_03: like a piece of cheese with a piece of apple.
• 43:54
  SPEAKER_03: and a nut or something.
• 43:56
  SPEAKER_03: It's just,
• 43:57
  SPEAKER_03: I don't anticipate it,
• 43:58
  SPEAKER_03: but there is like this moment in which I feel that,
• 44:01
  SPEAKER_03: wow,
• 44:01
  SPEAKER_03: this combination was umami,
• 44:05
  SPEAKER_03: like involving cheese.
• 44:08
  SPEAKER_01: Well, the cheese ass already has the umami in it.
• 44:13
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 44:14
  SPEAKER_01: But the combination brings it out to life, like wine.
• 44:20
  Because it's the acidity in the apple that brings up the
• 44:28
  contrasts with the fats in
• 44:29
  SPEAKER_01: the cheese and brings you that contrast.
• 44:32
  SPEAKER_03: So I didn't make it up.
• 44:35
  SPEAKER_01: No, no.
• 44:37
  It's a good way to appreciate what is present in the cheese
• 44:41
  that develops during the aging.
• 44:43
  SPEAKER_03: Good.
• 44:44
  SPEAKER_03: Good.
• 44:45
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 44:50
  SPEAKER_03: I look forward to going.
• 44:53
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 44:53
  SPEAKER_01: I really do.
• 44:54
  SPEAKER_01: You like it.
• 44:56
  SPEAKER_01: You guys are very nice.
• 44:57
  SPEAKER_03: I do.
• 44:58
  SPEAKER_03: And again, I think, I don't know.
• 45:00
  SPEAKER_03: I mean,
• 45:01
  SPEAKER_03: I don't know if you have thought about it,
• 45:02
  SPEAKER_03: but it's just the way in which you communicate the process.
• 45:06
  SPEAKER_03: It's so educational.
• 45:07
  SPEAKER_03: I feel that I really learned.
• 45:09
  And that doesn't have to be,
• 45:10
  you know,
• 45:11
  this long text about,
• 45:13
  no,
• 45:13
  it can be a paragraph.
• 45:14
  SPEAKER_03: It can be three lines.
• 45:16
  SPEAKER_03: but you actually learn something.
• 45:18
  SPEAKER_03: It's very organic.
• 45:20
  You know,
• 45:20
  when they call organic content in social media,
• 45:23
  it's usually BS.
• 45:25
  SPEAKER_03: This is organic content for me.
• 45:27
  Well,
• 45:27
  I have a lot of people say,
• 45:28
  well,
• 45:28
  you should plan your posts and you should...
• 45:32
  Yeah.
• 45:32
  SPEAKER_01: If I don't post anything in two or three days, I couldn't.
• 45:36
  SPEAKER_01: I was doing something else.
• 45:39
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 45:40
  SPEAKER_03: And you have thousands of followers.
• 45:42
  SPEAKER_03: So that's not, you know, that's...
• 45:45
  SPEAKER_03: What do you think about that, Nick?
• 45:47
  SPEAKER_03: About what?
• 45:48
  SPEAKER_03: That the way he, for me, is very special.
• 45:52
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah, like just post.
• 45:54
  SPEAKER_00: No,
• 45:55
  SPEAKER_00: actually,
• 45:55
  it's funny because I actually had him speak to my best culinary
• 45:59
  social media class.
• 46:02
  SPEAKER_00: I teach every year.
• 46:03
  SPEAKER_00: Like what was like a year or two ago, right?
• 46:05
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 46:06
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 46:06
  SPEAKER_00: Just because I like to talk about exactly that,
• 46:10
  that he gets engagement on social media because he's not
• 46:14
  following some weird
• 46:15
  SPEAKER_00: script or 2 PM every day or,
• 46:20
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 46:20
  SPEAKER_00: It's kind of random, but it's honest and real.
• 46:23
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it's genuine.
• 46:25
  SPEAKER_00: I think ultimately that works,
• 46:27
  SPEAKER_00: but still,
• 46:28
  SPEAKER_00: we were talking today,
• 46:29
  SPEAKER_00: it's like how fucked up the algorithms are now.
• 46:32
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, it doesn't matter what you do.
• 46:35
  SPEAKER_00: It's just like nothing works anymore.
• 46:37
  SPEAKER_01: No, I think there's a core base that follows everything you do.
• 46:43
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 46:43
  SPEAKER_01: But here's the thing.
• 46:44
  SPEAKER_01: It's like, I think... It's not as wide as it was.
• 46:47
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think you could...
• 46:49
  SPEAKER_00: create an audience just by being real and honest.
• 46:52
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 46:53
  SPEAKER_00: Before,
• 46:54
  SPEAKER_00: but now it's like,
• 46:56
  and you could grow your audience just by actually saying
• 46:59
  something and showing
• 47:00
  SPEAKER_00: something interesting.
• 47:02
  SPEAKER_00: But now it doesn't matter.
• 47:04
  SPEAKER_00: You can't grow it at all.
• 47:05
  SPEAKER_00: You can show a little bit, some to the people who already watch you.
• 47:11
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 47:11
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 47:12
  SPEAKER_00: I like, I don't know how it works anymore.
• 47:13
  SPEAKER_01: I think if you,
• 47:16
  I mean,
• 47:16
  it doesn't work for content creators that we are,
• 47:20
  which are educational.
• 47:21
  SPEAKER_01: I think it works for dancing and making things that are silly.
• 47:26
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 47:27
  SPEAKER_01: And they're short and silly and engaged in that way.
• 47:41
  Maybe even a post with a text that talks about natural crevents
• 47:45
  or natural cheeses
• 47:46
  SPEAKER_01: or natural wine.
• 47:47
  SPEAKER_01: That works because people want to read it.
• 47:51
  SPEAKER_01: But just showing your life used to be something really good.
• 47:58
  SPEAKER_01: It's not working at all.
• 48:00
  SPEAKER_01: I also show you a lot of recipes.
• 48:07
  SPEAKER_01: to people.
• 48:09
  SPEAKER_01: You're giving away something for free and you could write a book.
• 48:14
  SPEAKER_00: But then that's the thing.
• 48:15
  SPEAKER_00: It's like you are giving away something for free too,
• 48:18
  SPEAKER_00: but you're not giving it,
• 48:19
  SPEAKER_00: you're giving it to not so much the people,
• 48:21
  SPEAKER_00: you're giving it to Instagram,
• 48:23
  SPEAKER_00: to Meta,
• 48:24
  to these fucking tech jerk offs that are just doing all the
• 48:30
  shit that's destroying
• 48:31
  SPEAKER_00: everything else.
• 48:32
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
• 48:34
  I'm trying to do more and more recipes,
• 48:36
  but directly to people via Substack.
• 48:40
  SPEAKER_01: Still for free, but you know.
• 48:42
  SPEAKER_01: What's the name of your Substack again?
• 48:43
  SPEAKER_01: It's just my Martin Rosberg.
• 48:47
  So how many people will you say contact you because of
• 48:50
  Instagram and that leads to
• 48:52
  SPEAKER_03: something else or they just benefit from the...
• 48:56
  SPEAKER_03: It's hard to measure,
• 48:57
  SPEAKER_03: right?
• 48:57
  SPEAKER_01: I get most of the people from my
• 49:03
  SPEAKER_01: from social media, both Instagram and Twitter.
• 49:06
  SPEAKER_01: We have a big following too.
• 49:08
  And it's funny because sometimes I keep on posting the photos
• 49:12
  of the cheeses we
• 49:12
  SPEAKER_01: serve for the guests at the tree houses.
• 49:15
  SPEAKER_01: And some people never wrote to me, never spoke to me.
• 49:18
  And one day someone's like,
• 49:19
  okay,
• 49:20
  I'm sick of seeing this and not being able to taste it.
• 49:22
  SPEAKER_01: I'm coming over for a weekend.
• 49:24
  SPEAKER_01: I'm going to have dinner.
• 49:25
  SPEAKER_01: They're just listening to you and reading.
• 49:31
  SPEAKER_01: They talk like they were friends.
• 49:33
  SPEAKER_01: They know you, but you don't know them.
• 49:34
  SPEAKER_01: It's very, very special, very weird.
• 49:37
  SPEAKER_01: A lot of people I can get today to come to my events come from there.
• 49:45
  SPEAKER_01: Most of them.
• 49:47
  Yeah,
• 49:47
  it's still valuable that people are interested in a better
• 49:51
  flavor,
• 49:52
  right?
• 49:53
  SPEAKER_03: And they get attracted to that.
• 49:54
  SPEAKER_03: You can tell in pictures that it's different, right?
• 49:58
  SPEAKER_03: It's a different quality.
• 50:04
  SPEAKER_01: in X or Twitter,
• 50:05
  SPEAKER_01: what do we call it,
• 50:07
  SPEAKER_01: that people say,
• 50:08
  SPEAKER_01: oh,
• 50:09
  the best time of my day in Twitter is when I go and look for
• 50:12
  your post about food.
• 50:14
  SPEAKER_01: There's no politics.
• 50:17
  SPEAKER_03: There is something.
• 50:18
  SPEAKER_01: Food and wine and just enjoying life and cooking, you know, baking bread.
• 50:25
  SPEAKER_01: Turn on the oven, cook something, you're going to be much happier.
• 50:29
  SPEAKER_01: that if you're watching TV or watching TikTok videos,
• 50:33
  SPEAKER_01: just turn off the phone and just cook something.
• 50:36
  SPEAKER_00: No, yeah.
• 50:36
  SPEAKER_00: I think social media works better like that.
• 50:40
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 50:40
  SPEAKER_00: You know,
• 50:41
  SPEAKER_00: it's like,
• 50:41
  SPEAKER_00: I think once politics enter the conversation on social media,
• 50:46
  SPEAKER_00: that's when it starts.
• 50:48
  the algorithm starts pushing you in one way or the other and
• 50:51
  enraging you.
• 50:53
  SPEAKER_00: But at some point, it's like you can't not say anything.
• 50:56
  You can't just turn off the news,
• 50:57
  especially the shit that's going on now.
• 51:01
  SPEAKER_00: But at the same time, it's like... You can go back to the old ways.
• 51:04
  SPEAKER_01: The paper in the morning,
• 51:05
  SPEAKER_01: and then the rest of the day,
• 51:06
  SPEAKER_01: you can enjoy yourself and do something about it.
• 51:10
  SPEAKER_00: I mean like participating in the conversation, though.
• 51:12
  SPEAKER_00: I've tried to stay away of posting about politics because I know it's...
• 51:17
  SPEAKER_00: It doesn't do anything.
• 51:18
  It's just feeding it to the same people that already know that
• 51:22
  what Israel is doing
• 51:23
  SPEAKER_00: in Palestine is wrong.
• 51:25
  It's like,
• 51:26
  I'm not reaching anyone else by posting on fucking...
• 51:31
  You're changing anyone's mind.
• 51:32
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I'm not changing anyone's mind.
• 51:34
  It's just creating division on an algorithm so this tech
• 51:38
  company can make money.
• 51:40
  SPEAKER_00: That's it.
• 51:41
  So if I'm going to have those conversations,
• 51:43
  it's going to be the writing...
• 51:46
  SPEAKER_00: Not on social media, I mean, you know, wherever, or in person.
• 51:50
  SPEAKER_00: I think we should do more in person.
• 51:51
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, me too.
• 51:52
  SPEAKER_03: Well, you get that engagement in the workshops too.
• 51:56
  SPEAKER_03: But what I like about it is, it's like, it's not denying reality.
• 51:59
  SPEAKER_03: It doesn't feel like,
• 52:00
  SPEAKER_03: you know,
• 52:01
  SPEAKER_03: their Instagram stuff that are like,
• 52:03
  SPEAKER_03: let's pretend nothing had happened and it feels so fake.
• 52:06
  SPEAKER_03: This is, no, this is part of life.
• 52:08
  And this is a side of life to enjoy,
• 52:11
  to learn,
• 52:12
  to get into something seriously and honestly.
• 52:16
  SPEAKER_03: So it doesn't, you know, it doesn't clash or denies anything.
• 52:20
  SPEAKER_03: And that's why I find it so.
• 52:21
  SPEAKER_00: No,
• 52:21
  SPEAKER_00: but it's like at times I do feel weird though,
• 52:25
  SPEAKER_00: if I'm not speaking out of something like social media and it's like,
• 52:29
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 52:30
  SPEAKER_00: like,
• 52:30
  like I feel weird just posting about things I'm eating or
• 52:34
  things I'm doing in my
• 52:35
  SPEAKER_00: garden when,
• 52:36
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 52:37
  SPEAKER_00: there's ice raids everywhere,
• 52:38
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 52:38
  and it seems like you're denying that that's happening if
• 52:42
  you're not speaking about
• 52:43
  SPEAKER_00: it.
• 52:44
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 52:45
  SPEAKER_01: I, I,
• 52:48
  engage,
• 52:49
  but just I try to live a better life now without...
• 52:53
  Yeah,
• 52:54
  I think you have to.
• 52:56
  SPEAKER_01: I share what I'm doing that day, but it's not planned to share.
• 53:01
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe people would like this recipe of whatever I'm doing.
• 53:06
  SPEAKER_01: It's a simple vinaigrette that you put in a glass jar and you shake it.
• 53:10
  SPEAKER_01: So maybe people would like this, but it's not about a
• 53:17
  SPEAKER_01: reading all this because it really takes energy for me.
• 53:20
  SPEAKER_01: No, of course.
• 53:24
  I'm conflicted always because I feel like it feels weird to
• 53:30
  just post other things
• 53:33
  SPEAKER_00: when all that shit is going on.
• 53:35
  SPEAKER_00: But you still have to post the other things.
• 53:37
  It's like I've come to the realization to where you still got
• 53:41
  to post about the good shit.
• 53:43
  it doesn't matter how much,
• 53:44
  you know,
• 53:45
  the social media politics isn't helping anyone.
• 53:48
  SPEAKER_03: Oh,
• 53:48
  SPEAKER_03: I totally get what you're saying,
• 53:50
  SPEAKER_03: Nick,
• 53:50
  SPEAKER_03: because I'm here today for the last three days in LA.
• 53:54
  SPEAKER_00: Are you okay, Julie?
• 53:57
  SPEAKER_00: Like, are you all right?
• 53:58
  SPEAKER_03: No, and we are talking about this.
• 54:00
  SPEAKER_03: I'm like thinking, should I take my passport with me or not?
• 54:03
  SPEAKER_03: You know, yeah, it is.
• 54:06
  SPEAKER_03: I know what you mean, but at the same time, I think it's,
• 54:10
  SPEAKER_03: indirectly helping the cause,
• 54:13
  SPEAKER_03: sending the message of we can create community in healthy ways,
• 54:18
  SPEAKER_03: in more sustainable ways.
• 54:19
  SPEAKER_03: So that's why I think it doesn't clash.
• 54:22
  SPEAKER_03: I get what you're saying, but I think it's helping in a different way.
• 54:27
  SPEAKER_00: No, no, I totally agree.
• 54:28
  SPEAKER_00: Like I wrote about this like a few months ago in Subsection.
• 54:31
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 54:33
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 54:34
  SPEAKER_03: But yeah, I mean, tell me about it.
• 54:36
  SPEAKER_03: This food is in flames again for different reasons.
• 54:39
  SPEAKER_00: But it's hard.
• 54:39
  SPEAKER_00: But it's just like you have to choose.
• 54:42
  SPEAKER_01: We have our own fight behind good food and getting away from food.
• 54:55
  SPEAKER_00: Are you arguing about Cocina de Autor?
• 54:58
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I'm arguing about Cocina de Autor.
• 55:00
  SPEAKER_00: What do you think of that phrase?
• 55:02
  SPEAKER_03: The concept you mean?
• 55:04
  SPEAKER_00: Cocina de Autor.
• 55:05
  SPEAKER_01: I'm sick of this.
• 55:06
  SPEAKER_01: The concept.
• 55:07
  SPEAKER_01: Cocina de Autor.
• 55:08
  SPEAKER_01: This jam is queso de Autor and mermeladas de Autor.
• 55:13
  SPEAKER_01: Everything is de Autor.
• 55:20
  SPEAKER_03: I know.
• 55:21
  SPEAKER_03: It's silly.
• 55:22
  SPEAKER_01: You should give a little lemon zest to your pasta.
• 55:25
  SPEAKER_01: It's not that at all.
• 55:26
  SPEAKER_01: It's just you're cooking.
• 55:29
  SPEAKER_01: You've done it for thousands of years.
• 55:31
  SPEAKER_01: You learn from many, many other people.
• 55:33
  SPEAKER_01: It's not that at all.
• 55:34
  SPEAKER_03: And you know what I realized?
• 55:36
  I mean,
• 55:36
  as many labels,
• 55:37
  it's just once you use the labels,
• 55:39
  it loses the meaning of it.
• 55:41
  SPEAKER_03: So there is that.
• 55:42
  SPEAKER_03: But when I was editing a magazine in Colombia and I have writers,
• 55:46
  SPEAKER_03: you know,
• 55:47
  SPEAKER_03: working on articles,
• 55:48
  SPEAKER_03: they use those kind of things because it's,
• 55:50
  SPEAKER_03: you know,
• 55:50
  SPEAKER_03: they go to that commonplace.
• 55:52
  SPEAKER_03: And I said, what do you mean by cocina de autor?
• 55:57
  SPEAKER_03: Tell me.
• 55:58
  SPEAKER_03: And their explanation was actually pretty good.
• 56:00
  SPEAKER_03: So I said, that's what you need to write.
• 56:03
  Get rid of the label because you are trying to say something
• 56:07
  that is interesting.
• 56:08
  SPEAKER_03: So just forget the author thing and maybe you'll get to a better place.
• 56:15
  SPEAKER_01: Just describe how he combines ingredients.
• 56:18
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 56:19
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 56:21
  SPEAKER_01: He or she, yeah.
• 56:24
  SPEAKER_03: That's more impressive.
• 56:25
  SPEAKER_03: You don't need the label.
• 56:26
  SPEAKER_03: You don't need talking.
• 56:27
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it's just silly.
• 56:29
  SPEAKER_03: It really is.
• 56:30
  SPEAKER_00: But there isn't a label like that in English, is there?
• 56:33
  SPEAKER_03: A signature, maybe?
• 56:35
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 56:36
  SPEAKER_01: No, you wouldn't say that.
• 56:39
  SPEAKER_03: Well, signature dishes or, you know.
• 56:41
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, but that's like the main dishes of the place.
• 56:44
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 56:45
  SPEAKER_03: Are you saying, Nick, that you're more narcissistic than you guys are?
• 56:50
  SPEAKER_03: That's what you're saying.
• 56:54
  SPEAKER_01: I think it sells, but we've got a good time.
• 56:57
  SPEAKER_03: No, but you're right.
• 56:59
  SPEAKER_03: But they say,
• 57:00
  SPEAKER_03: I mean,
• 57:02
  SPEAKER_03: so when they want to emphasize the chef,
• 57:06
  SPEAKER_03: how would you say they do it then?
• 57:07
  SPEAKER_01: Because they do.
• 57:09
  SPEAKER_01: Very creative chef.
• 57:10
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 57:11
  SPEAKER_01: Combines...
• 57:18
  SPEAKER_03: Who made this thing up?
• 57:20
  SPEAKER_03: The outdoor thing?
• 57:21
  SPEAKER_03: Probably in Spain?
• 57:23
  SPEAKER_01: It's not like you're a writer.
• 57:24
  SPEAKER_01: I'm sure it's from Spain.
• 57:26
  SPEAKER_03: From Spain, yeah.
• 57:27
  SPEAKER_00: I'm sure it came up in Spain.
• 57:30
  SPEAKER_01: The same molecular?
• 57:31
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 57:33
  I'm sure it did,
• 57:33
  but it just...
• 57:35
  And it probably made sense,
• 57:36
  you know,
• 57:37
  with El Boyi.
• 57:38
  SPEAKER_00: But now it's like...
• 57:41
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah,
• 57:42
  SPEAKER_00: one other guy,
• 57:43
  SPEAKER_00: whatever guy,
• 57:43
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 57:43
  SPEAKER_00: putting lemon zest on his pasta is like,
• 57:46
  SPEAKER_00: yeah,
• 57:46
  SPEAKER_00: that's not exactly right.
• 57:47
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 57:48
  SPEAKER_01: It's cocina.
• 57:49
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you're not for on Adria.
• 57:51
  SPEAKER_01: It's cocina de un humano.
• 57:54
  SPEAKER_01: You're just cooking.
• 57:56
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, cocina de humano.
• 57:58
  SPEAKER_03: He's human, yeah, human, human.
• 58:01
  SPEAKER_01: I love your writer.
• 58:01
  SPEAKER_01: If you're a writer, published writer, then you'll say cocina de autor.
• 58:05
  SPEAKER_01: Cocina, yeah.
• 58:06
  SPEAKER_01: Because you're, you know, Borges or something.
• 58:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 58:08
  SPEAKER_01: So...
• 58:10
  SPEAKER_03: You'll keep doing your workshops.
• 58:13
  SPEAKER_03: We'll go there.
• 58:14
  SPEAKER_03: We'll be happy.
• 58:15
  SPEAKER_03: And what else?
• 58:16
  SPEAKER_03: And maybe we'll stay.
• 58:18
  SPEAKER_01: You come to Dubai, yes.
• 58:20
  SPEAKER_01: Or maybe we'll meet at one of my workshops in Europe next year.
• 58:26
  SPEAKER_02: Where are you going?
• 58:27
  SPEAKER_01: I have a plan to go.
• 58:29
  SPEAKER_01: This September, I'm going to Italy and Spain.
• 58:33
  SPEAKER_01: November, Germany, Berlin, which is Berlin.
• 58:37
  SPEAKER_01: How is the cheese situation there?
• 58:46
  It's like a market full of cheesemakers and there's talks and
• 58:51
  cheesemaking courses.
• 58:52
  SPEAKER_01: I'm going to come and I'm going to do a course,
• 58:54
  SPEAKER_01: a workshop before,
• 58:55
  SPEAKER_01: I think,
• 58:55
  SPEAKER_01: the week before,
• 58:56
  SPEAKER_01: nearby Berlin.
• 58:58
  SPEAKER_00: Is there like a natural cheese fairs like that?
• 59:02
  SPEAKER_00: No.
• 59:02
  SPEAKER_00: Like raw wine, but raw cheese?
• 59:04
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 59:05
  Well,
• 59:05
  the one in Bra by Slow Food in September this year,
• 59:09
  it's every second year.
• 59:12
  SPEAKER_01: It's the biggest for Romeo.
• 59:13
  SPEAKER_01: It's not just Romeo, it's mostly Romeo.
• 59:16
  SPEAKER_01: But we go there.
• 59:17
  SPEAKER_01: The natural cheese makers is like the small table of 10 people.
• 59:20
  SPEAKER_01: Really cool, though.
• 59:24
  SPEAKER_01: just a few of us.
• 59:25
  SPEAKER_01: Dixon from here, just a few cheese makers.
• 59:29
  And then UK,
• 59:29
  I think I'm going to be in UK in March,
• 59:33
  and then Asia in June next year.
• 59:35
  SPEAKER_00: Meet up with Max, Max Jones.
• 59:37
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, of course.
• 59:38
  SPEAKER_01: I want to see him in September now.
• 59:39
  SPEAKER_01: He's setting up a workshop there too, I think.
• 59:43
  SPEAKER_03: So you are on tour.
• 59:45
  Yeah,
• 59:46
  my youngest is leaving home in my house every year,
• 59:49
  so I need to,
• 59:50
  you know,
• 59:51
  be free again.
• 59:53
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 59:55
  SPEAKER_01: Because I stopped having kids at home.
• 59:58
  SPEAKER_01: So they grew up.
• 1:00:00
  SPEAKER_01: So now I can travel with no problem.
• 1:00:03
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, you can.
• 1:00:05
  SPEAKER_03: I have a question.
• 1:00:07
  SPEAKER_03: Do you think in different countries people use cheese in a different way?
• 1:00:12
  SPEAKER_03: That it has a different purpose?
• 1:00:13
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, absolutely.
• 1:00:15
  SPEAKER_01: But that's true of all foods.
• 1:00:17
  SPEAKER_01: But in Europe, the cheese is more seasonal.
• 1:00:21
  The fresh cheese is in the summer and the hard cheese is more
• 1:00:24
  in autumn and winter and spring.
• 1:00:27
  SPEAKER_01: In the US, the cheese platter has to have everything, hard and soft.
• 1:00:33
  SPEAKER_01: At any time of the year, it doesn't matter.
• 1:00:35
  SPEAKER_01: It doesn't matter if it's summer or winter.
• 1:00:44
  for granted yeah mattress is a luxury some people eat cheese
• 1:00:48
  every day some people
• 1:00:49
  eat cheese only for for for christmas so it's really different
• 1:00:54
  so it's really
• 1:00:55
  different yeah some people just eat slices that are made with
• 1:01:04
  particles so it's i
• 1:01:06
  think that's how colombia is by the way we put cheese in
• 1:01:09
  everything yes and you
• 1:01:11
  SPEAKER_01: picked i i
• 1:01:13
  SPEAKER_01: You make cheese.
• 1:01:14
  SPEAKER_01: If you're on a farm, you make cheese even for each lunch.
• 1:01:18
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:01:19
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 1:01:20
  SPEAKER_00: What do you think about the vegan cheeses?
• 1:01:22
  SPEAKER_00: Have you ever had any that you like?
• 1:01:25
  SPEAKER_01: I've never had any.
• 1:01:26
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, really?
• 1:01:27
  SPEAKER_01: No.
• 1:01:27
  SPEAKER_01: But just because I didn't have them in front of me.
• 1:01:30
  SPEAKER_01: I would taste them.
• 1:01:31
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not against them.
• 1:01:33
  SPEAKER_01: I don't think calling them cheeses is good.
• 1:01:35
  SPEAKER_01: Fair enough.
• 1:01:36
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:01:36
  SPEAKER_01: But I have to taste them to tell them.
• 1:01:38
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's a flavor.
• 1:01:42
  SPEAKER_01: I don't think we'll get to the depth.
• 1:01:50
  SPEAKER_03: Well,
• 1:01:50
  SPEAKER_03: without thinking much,
• 1:01:52
  SPEAKER_03: guys,
• 1:01:52
  SPEAKER_03: the two of you,
• 1:01:53
  SPEAKER_03: what will you say is your favorite cheese right now?
• 1:01:56
  SPEAKER_03: Without thinking.
• 1:01:57
  SPEAKER_01: Usually the last one I manage to create it the way I want.
• 1:02:02
  SPEAKER_01: Cheese?
• 1:02:02
  SPEAKER_01: It's like my last kid.
• 1:02:04
  SPEAKER_01: It's like my last son.
• 1:02:06
  SPEAKER_03: Why are you just last baby?
• 1:02:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, the last baby is the cutest, right?
• 1:02:11
  SPEAKER_01: Then they grow up.
• 1:02:12
  SPEAKER_03: And what is the last one?
• 1:02:14
  SPEAKER_01: It's a cheese I made following a Spanish technique.
• 1:02:17
  So two years ago,
• 1:02:19
  I went to Spain and presented my cheeses to a group of
• 1:02:22
  cheesemakers there.
• 1:02:24
  SPEAKER_01: And we talked about the techniques and how they were made.
• 1:02:28
  SPEAKER_01: And then each of them presented their own cheese.
• 1:02:30
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:02:31
  And they talk about how they make it and how they made them and
• 1:02:35
  what techniques
• 1:02:36
  SPEAKER_01: they use and the temperature of cooking and all this stuff.
• 1:02:39
  SPEAKER_01: And it got to a point where a Galician man presented the cheese and said,
• 1:02:44
  SPEAKER_01: well,
• 1:02:44
  SPEAKER_01: this cheese is really,
• 1:02:45
  SPEAKER_01: really simple.
• 1:02:46
  SPEAKER_01: It just made itself.
• 1:02:47
  SPEAKER_01: He didn't give any, any, any idea of how it was made.
• 1:02:51
  SPEAKER_01: And we asked him, oh, it's simple.
• 1:02:53
  SPEAKER_01: It's very simple.
• 1:02:53
  SPEAKER_01: It's so simple, so simple.
• 1:02:55
  SPEAKER_01: So I started thinking about this,
• 1:02:57
  SPEAKER_01: and when I got back to the dairy,
• 1:02:58
  I started making tests and trying to recreate this cheese that
• 1:03:02
  I knew nothing
• 1:03:03
  SPEAKER_01: about.
• 1:03:03
  SPEAKER_01: Going back to studying about old Spanish cheeses,
• 1:03:09
  SPEAKER_01: and I made this cheese called Simple,
• 1:03:11
  SPEAKER_01: of course.
• 1:03:12
  SPEAKER_01: And I realized it's like in the style of Gamonero style,
• 1:03:17
  SPEAKER_01: so it's dry and very well aged,
• 1:03:19
  SPEAKER_01: has some glue inside it too.
• 1:03:21
  SPEAKER_01: It's very buttery in the mouth and meaty.
• 1:03:28
  okay okay so that's my favorite right now okay and you call it
• 1:03:33
  simple because at
• 1:03:34
  the end of the night that that that same cheeseburger came to
• 1:03:37
  me and said well i
• 1:03:38
  want to know how you make your alpines i said what do you mean
• 1:03:40
  well if you saw how
• 1:03:41
  you sold them better and i said well you didn't say anything
• 1:03:46
  about your jesus he
• 1:03:47
  SPEAKER_01: was like no no
• 1:03:55
  SPEAKER_01: I have to do this.
• 1:03:57
  SPEAKER_01: I have to copy you.
• 1:03:58
  SPEAKER_01: You know, insist on that.
• 1:04:07
  SPEAKER_00: cheese right now?
• 1:04:08
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 1:04:09
  SPEAKER_00: There's a lot of good Connecticut cheesemakers.
• 1:04:13
  I find them in the shops kind of near where I am because I'm
• 1:04:16
  right on the border.
• 1:04:17
  SPEAKER_00: We can see Connecticut.
• 1:04:19
  SPEAKER_00: I can actually point now, but Connecticut's right over there.
• 1:04:22
  SPEAKER_00: It's my neighbor's because I'm on the state line.
• 1:04:25
  SPEAKER_00: But I have one that I bought the other day.
• 1:04:27
  SPEAKER_00: This is just the last cheese I bought from Arithustra Dairy.
• 1:04:33
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's the name of it.
• 1:04:35
  SPEAKER_00: It's pretty well known.
• 1:04:36
  SPEAKER_03: What is it again?
• 1:04:37
  SPEAKER_00: Arathustra dairy?
• 1:04:39
  SPEAKER_00: I might be saying it wrong,
• 1:04:42
  but it had a nice alpine cheese that had a hard rind with a lot
• 1:04:46
  of shit on it.
• 1:04:48
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know what it was,
• 1:04:49
  SPEAKER_00: but it had this nice grassy herbal flavor,
• 1:04:53
  SPEAKER_00: but not too strong,
• 1:04:54
  SPEAKER_00: very mild.
• 1:04:56
  SPEAKER_00: It was just a beautiful cheese.
• 1:04:59
  SPEAKER_00: I should have taken a photo of it because it's gone now.
• 1:05:03
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe there's still a tiny bit in there.
• 1:05:05
  SPEAKER_00: I'll have to look.
• 1:05:06
  SPEAKER_00: You can try it.
• 1:05:07
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:05:08
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, they have a lot of like cheeses.
• 1:05:10
  SPEAKER_00: There's a lot of good Connecticut cheesemakers that I have access to.
• 1:05:15
  SPEAKER_00: The New York side, I don't know.
• 1:05:17
  SPEAKER_00: Do you know much about that?
• 1:05:18
  SPEAKER_00: Is there a lot of New York cheesemaking?
• 1:05:19
  SPEAKER_00: Like upstate?
• 1:05:20
  SPEAKER_00: No.
• 1:05:21
  SPEAKER_00: There's not, right?
• 1:05:21
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 1:05:22
  SPEAKER_00: It's more Connecticut, Vermont.
• 1:05:24
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think so.
• 1:05:25
  SPEAKER_01: I think so.
• 1:05:27
  We were going to go on a cheese trip once because he was like,
• 1:05:33
  what,
• 1:05:33
  four years ago?
• 1:05:34
  SPEAKER_00: Five years ago?
• 1:05:36
  SPEAKER_00: 2020.
• 1:05:36
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:05:38
  SPEAKER_00: And he was coming up to do, were you taking a class?
• 1:05:41
  SPEAKER_00: I was taking a class.
• 1:05:41
  SPEAKER_00: He was taking a cheese class and visiting dairies.
• 1:05:45
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, okay, I'll come with you.
• 1:05:47
  SPEAKER_00: And then the pandemic happened, like right that day.
• 1:05:51
  SPEAKER_00: Like he was here.
• 1:05:52
  SPEAKER_00: He stayed at my apartment.
• 1:05:54
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, so were you stuck?
• 1:05:56
  SPEAKER_00: Like literally the day like New York shut down.
• 1:06:00
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I arrived in March 11th.
• 1:06:02
  SPEAKER_01: Oh.
• 1:06:04
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:06:04
  SPEAKER_00: So, and like everything was canceled suddenly.
• 1:06:07
  SPEAKER_03: And what did you do?
• 1:06:08
  SPEAKER_03: How did you get somewhere else?
• 1:06:11
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I just took the flight the day before they closed everything.
• 1:06:16
  SPEAKER_01: The last flight.
• 1:06:17
  SPEAKER_01: They closed everything.
• 1:06:19
  SPEAKER_01: Otherwise, I would have stayed here for three or four months or not.
• 1:06:23
  SPEAKER_03: Happened to many people on the last flight.
• 1:06:25
  SPEAKER_03: It happened to me, too.
• 1:06:27
  SPEAKER_03: I moved somewhere else the day before the pandemic started.
• 1:06:32
  SPEAKER_03: And I got stuck there for months.
• 1:06:33
  SPEAKER_03: But it was a good, I guess, situation.
• 1:06:36
  SPEAKER_03: Where were you?
• 1:06:37
  SPEAKER_03: Were you in Colombia?
• 1:06:38
  SPEAKER_03: I was moving.
• 1:06:39
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, at the time I was moving from Bogota to Cali.
• 1:06:43
  SPEAKER_03: And literally everything shut down.
• 1:06:46
  SPEAKER_03: the day after.
• 1:06:47
  SPEAKER_03: And I was stuck there for three months.
• 1:06:49
  SPEAKER_03: Well, my favorite is manchego.
• 1:06:52
  SPEAKER_03: I love it.
• 1:06:53
  SPEAKER_03: I mean,
• 1:06:54
  SPEAKER_03: from the ones I have tried,
• 1:06:56
  SPEAKER_03: which is,
• 1:06:56
  SPEAKER_03: I guess,
• 1:06:57
  SPEAKER_03: five percent of the cheeses of the world or two.
• 1:07:00
  SPEAKER_03: I don't know.
• 1:07:08
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 1:07:09
  SPEAKER_01: They have that.
• 1:07:10
  SPEAKER_01: It's really, really, really fun.
• 1:07:14
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:07:15
  SPEAKER_03: I love it.
• 1:07:17
  SPEAKER_03: It's just, I don't know what is it, but my favorite.
• 1:07:20
  SPEAKER_03: Do you like it?
• 1:07:23
  SPEAKER_02: You have one, right?
• 1:07:27
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:07:27
  SPEAKER_01: So you like Pecorino, Sardo, Pecorino?
• 1:07:30
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:07:30
  SPEAKER_01: You like it.
• 1:07:31
  SPEAKER_01: You like all of it.
• 1:07:32
  SPEAKER_01: That's all Sheepsfield.
• 1:07:34
  SPEAKER_03: That spectrum of cheeses.
• 1:07:38
  SPEAKER_03: That gamma.
• 1:07:39
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 1:07:41
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 1:07:42
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think you like Pecorino better than Manchego.
• 1:07:44
  SPEAKER_01: The real Pecorino sardo.
• 1:07:46
  SPEAKER_01: It's super interesting.
• 1:07:47
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:07:49
  SPEAKER_01: I like it.
• 1:07:50
  It makes the situation better here,
• 1:07:52
  too,
• 1:07:52
  because not the easiest day in LA.
• 1:07:56
  SPEAKER_00: This makes every situation better.
• 1:07:59
  SPEAKER_03: Exactly.
• 1:08:00
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:08:00
  SPEAKER_00: But no, I like this setup.
• 1:08:02
  SPEAKER_00: This is kind of cool.
• 1:08:03
  SPEAKER_00: I think this can work.
• 1:08:05
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:08:05
  SPEAKER_03: Just invite everyone, Nick, to your barn.
• 1:08:07
  SPEAKER_00: You were just in New York.
• 1:08:09
  SPEAKER_00: Like you could,
• 1:08:10
  SPEAKER_00: you could have,
• 1:08:11
  SPEAKER_00: if we could have timed this a little better,
• 1:08:12
  SPEAKER_00: we could have all three been here.
• 1:08:13
  SPEAKER_03: It was so short on last minute, but yeah.
• 1:08:16
  SPEAKER_00: I'd have to get like another camera somewhere.
• 1:08:18
  SPEAKER_03: My son is living in New York and it was his 21 beer day.
• 1:08:23
  SPEAKER_03: So I had to go last minute and spend time with him,
• 1:08:26
  SPEAKER_03: but,
• 1:08:27
  SPEAKER_03: but I went for three,
• 1:08:28
  SPEAKER_03: four days,
• 1:08:29
  SPEAKER_03: three days.
• 1:08:29
  SPEAKER_03: But yeah, next time.
• 1:08:31
  SPEAKER_00: We know that it works here in the barn, I guess.
• 1:08:34
  SPEAKER_00: I'll see when I process everything.
• 1:08:36
  SPEAKER_03: I'm so jealous of your office situation.
• 1:08:40
  SPEAKER_03: Maybe Dan's being a dairy.
• 1:08:42
  SPEAKER_00: I don't think I can start a dairy here.
• 1:08:49
  SPEAKER_03: You see, that's how we started.
• 1:08:52
  SPEAKER_00: No,
• 1:08:52
  SPEAKER_00: yesterday driving and seeing all the dairies that really aren't that far,
• 1:08:57
  SPEAKER_00: like within 45 minutes,
• 1:08:59
  SPEAKER_00: and there's probably some closer,
• 1:09:00
  SPEAKER_00: it just happened to be where we were driving,
• 1:09:03
  SPEAKER_00: when there was raw milk all over the place.
• 1:09:08
  SPEAKER_00: I could work with that, you know?
• 1:09:11
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe.
• 1:09:11
  SPEAKER_00: You should.
• 1:09:12
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:09:13
  SPEAKER_00: Next year you come, I'll go to the class.
• 1:09:16
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, sure.
• 1:09:17
  SPEAKER_00: Enjoy it.
• 1:09:19
  SPEAKER_01: I have many students that make cheese just for the pleasure of it.
• 1:09:25
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:09:26
  SPEAKER_01: And some of them are like,
• 1:09:28
  SPEAKER_01: well,
• 1:09:29
  cheese changed my life because I can go there and make cheese
• 1:09:31
  and everybody else
• 1:09:32
  SPEAKER_00: is...
• 1:09:32
  SPEAKER_00: I like doing things on my property.
• 1:09:35
  SPEAKER_00: Like, as you can tell, I've got the garden up.
• 1:09:37
  SPEAKER_00: What do you think I should be doing?
• 1:09:38
  SPEAKER_00: What would you do?
• 1:09:41
  SPEAKER_00: You see my house.
• 1:09:42
  SPEAKER_00: We worked in the garden.
• 1:09:43
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I told you.
• 1:09:45
  SPEAKER_00: Chickens is a good one.
• 1:09:47
  SPEAKER_01: Chickens, yeah.
• 1:09:49
  SPEAKER_01: Fire pit.
• 1:09:50
  SPEAKER_00: I have a fire pit.
• 1:09:52
  SPEAKER_00: I need to set it up better to where I have a proper cooking fire pit.
• 1:09:57
  SPEAKER_00: This is more like bonfire kind of thing.
• 1:09:59
  SPEAKER_01: Cooking fire pit.
• 1:10:01
  SPEAKER_01: Cheese pig is good, too.
• 1:10:03
  SPEAKER_01: Get people together to cook meat on the grill.
• 1:10:06
  SPEAKER_01: Mm-hmm.
• 1:10:08
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 1:10:09
  Now,
• 1:10:10
  I could even see,
• 1:10:11
  like,
• 1:10:11
  holding some,
• 1:10:13
  like,
• 1:10:13
  underground dinners here,
• 1:10:15
  like,
• 1:10:15
  regularly.
• 1:10:16
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:10:16
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:10:17
  SPEAKER_00: I would want to do it downstairs at this barn,
• 1:10:20
  SPEAKER_00: which is just,
• 1:10:20
  SPEAKER_00: like,
• 1:10:21
  SPEAKER_00: it's a ping pong table and storage in the winter.
• 1:10:23
  I could see setting it up in a way to where I could do
• 1:10:27
  something interesting.
• 1:10:29
  SPEAKER_03: You are a great cook, too, Nix.
• 1:10:31
  SPEAKER_00: Do you think so?
• 1:10:32
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know about it.
• 1:10:33
  SPEAKER_03: I know.
• 1:10:33
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:10:35
  But I could make something interesting just with things that I
• 1:10:38
  forage and,
• 1:10:39
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 1:10:39
  SPEAKER_00: things that I grow and preserve.
• 1:10:42
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:10:42
  So I could figure something out with what I have here that
• 1:10:46
  could be interesting
• 1:10:46
  SPEAKER_00: that's not around here.
• 1:10:48
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 1:10:50
  SPEAKER_00: But I think it'll be a little while.
• 1:10:54
  SPEAKER_00: This is like in the back of my head in five years maybe.
• 1:10:58
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:10:59
  SPEAKER_00: And if I had some cheeses, it would be great.
• 1:11:02
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 1:11:04
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:11:06
  SPEAKER_03: I think goes and give people a workshop from your barn.
• 1:11:10
  SPEAKER_00: Well, you can make a workshop here, yeah?
• 1:11:11
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:11:12
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's what I'm saying.
• 1:11:13
  SPEAKER_00: Like downstairs, I could put in like a kitchen and do some things.
• 1:11:17
  SPEAKER_00: Nice.
• 1:11:17
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:11:19
  SPEAKER_00: Nice.
• 1:11:19
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe.
• 1:11:20
  SPEAKER_00: One day.
• 1:11:21
  SPEAKER_03: Thanks for inspiring us.
• 1:11:23
  SPEAKER_03: And again, congratulations for the way you are communicating all this.
• 1:11:28
  SPEAKER_03: It's really great.
• 1:11:29
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 1:11:30
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 1:11:34
  SPEAKER_03: It is true.
• 1:11:35
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, it feels that way.
• 1:11:37
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you very much.
• 1:11:40
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 1:11:40
  SPEAKER_01: All right.
• 1:11:40
  SPEAKER_00: All right, Julie, I'm going to stop it.
• 1:11:43
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:11:44
  SPEAKER_00: But this was cool.
• 1:11:44
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I like it because it's funny.
• 1:11:50
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 1:11:51
  SPEAKER_00: It's just like I feel almost like you're interviewing us in a way.
• 1:11:56
  SPEAKER_00: Like in a way that's not, you know, it takes pressure off of me, I think.
• 1:12:01
  SPEAKER_03: I like it.
• 1:12:02
  SPEAKER_03: I love it.
• 1:12:05
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you everyone for listening.
• 1:12:07
  SPEAKER_00: You can find out more about Martin at martinrosberg.com and yeah,
• 1:12:14
  SPEAKER_00: he has all the information about his workshops there.
• 1:12:18
  SPEAKER_00: Check him out.
• 1:12:19
  Follow him on Instagram and wherever else on social media he is
• 1:12:22
  because it's pretty informative.
• 1:12:26
  SPEAKER_00: And if you haven't subscribed to the newsletter, go to newworlder.com
• 1:12:32
  SPEAKER_00: And check us out on YouTube as well.
• 1:12:34
  SPEAKER_00: YouTube.com slash newworlder.
• 1:12:37
  SPEAKER_00: And that's it.
• 1:12:37
  SPEAKER_00: And thanks to my friend Pat Bazzup for the music, as always.