Latest / The Dr. Psych Mom Show with clinical psychologist Dr. Samantha Rodman Whiten / Help-Rejecting Complainers!

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Help-Rejecting Complainers! · The Dr. Psych Mom Show with clinical psychologist Dr. Samantha Rodman Whiten

0:05
Hi everybody. And welcome to the doctors psych
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mom show. Thanks for subscribing to
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everybody that did and for everybody who didn't, you are
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missing a lot of bonus content. My most, recent one was on
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Thing that I say, which is great.
0:38
So today, what we are going to be talking about is the idea of
0:42
the help rejecting complainer and this is a term in therapy
0:46
for a client that complains, and complaints and reject any time
0:50
that you try to offer any sort of suggestion, whether that is a
0:53
solution or a reframe or anything at all, and with these
0:59
clients ends up getting in therapy over.
1:02
Time is just somebody who sits there and listens.
1:04
Because that's all that they seem to want.
1:07
And then no shock their problems.
1:11
Stay there problems. Never go away.
1:13
Because they're not really doing anything nor do.
1:16
They really seem on a deep level to want to do anything to
1:18
resolve them. So none of you are really
1:23
dealing with having a help rejecting client.
1:26
I don't think. I mean, I have some therapists
1:28
listeners but the majority of my listeners are just lay people.
1:33
So what I'm talking I'm about is when you or your partner or help
1:38
rejecting complainers. So there is some idea that be
1:44
especially with women that women are supposed to complain and
1:49
complain and complain. And then if the man offers any
1:51
sort of solution, he should be summarily executed you know,
1:55
possibly a slight overstatement but you wouldn't really know it
1:59
from popular discourse on how men are supposed to communicate
2:04
and how they're Always failing, by the way, just anything?
2:09
That tells you that 50 percent of the world is just completely
2:12
crazy. Whether that's politics or
2:13
gender ideas, when you got a really interrogate that, right?
2:17
Like if 50% of the world is wrong, then they're not wrong,
2:23
you know? They're just different than the
2:24
other 50% or of whatever you're dealing with.
2:28
So when people talk about how people Especially men are just
2:35
supposed to sit there and listen and listen and listen and Nod
2:38
and say, oh that sounds hard. That sounds hard.
2:41
I mean, as anybody ever actually been in a conversation like
2:44
that, it's so funny because women are supposed to be the
2:48
more emotionally aware gender. But I don't do that like with
2:53
other women and no women really do that to me.
2:57
I mean sometimes so like, you know, you would say oh my kid is
3:00
having a hard time at school, they don't have any friends.
3:04
Three so upset. So what?
3:07
Usually your friend isn't like that sounds hard.
3:10
In fact like, you know that would sound really kind of rude.
3:14
Almost like like almost like disconnected.
3:17
Usually what people do? It sounds almost patronizing
3:20
really. And usually what people do
3:23
instinctively is they say, oh my God, that sucks.
3:27
And then they ask more questions.
3:28
You're like. So really likes.
3:29
He doesn't have any friends. Like did you tell the teacher
3:32
and then you'll be like, yeah, you know, I told the Teacher the
3:35
teacher you know, she doesn't seem to care and I wonder if
3:38
this is because like we picked the wrong school or whatever.
3:41
And then the friend the female friend I'll probably say
3:44
something like well did you think about a different school
3:47
maybe? Because you know like I tried a
3:49
different school when I had that problem with my daughter when
3:52
she wasn't fitting in, you'd be like.
3:54
Well yeah but the thing is is that the different school has
3:56
this issue and then you'll talk about it like that.
3:59
But in no way. Do you say how dare you try to
4:02
solve my problem? All I called you for was to
4:07
validate me and to empathically, listen, without trying to
4:12
problem-solve. If you said that, you wouldn't
4:14
have any friends left because instinctively, when you care
4:17
about somebody, you do try to help.
4:20
Yes, of course, you can say, oh, wow, that's terrible.
4:23
I feel so bad. But then you would try to
4:27
potentially specially. If the conversation wears on and
4:29
on, either bring it to something where you empathize because it
4:33
happened to you there by showing.
4:34
Knowing that they're not alone or you would try to help them
4:38
come up with Solutions. If you are somebody who just
4:41
complains and complains and complains, probably don't have
4:44
much friends left. So you do not have many friends
4:46
left. My son, confuses much in many
4:49
you don't have many friends left so you probably don't even
4:53
remember what a normal conversation is supposed to
4:55
sound like. So in couples counseling there's
4:59
all this active listening and all this I statements I don't
5:03
really deal. So much would that?
5:06
I mean, except if somebody is just constantly saying to the
5:08
person you're an asshole, you're an asshole that I mean, yeah.
5:12
It's like they shouldn't be starting every sentence with you
5:14
but that's not exactly the biggest problem.
5:17
I don't really truck so much with these like jargon Laden,
5:21
really strict rigid categorizing of different sorts of
5:27
communication and to what's acceptable and what's not and
5:30
what's toxic and what's dysfunctional and what know this
5:33
stuff is It's hard to eat to memorize what to get, right?
5:36
And what to get wrong. So in all of this, there needs
5:40
to be something else looked at here which is why when a couple
5:44
shows up week after week and one says, you know, he didn't listen
5:48
right again, he didn't validate me, didn't empathize the the
5:52
question at some point needs to be.
5:54
Why are you complaining all the time though?
5:57
You know, because if you did this at work or you did it with
5:59
the kids, you did it with your friends, it wouldn't go well,
6:02
you know? And so Maybe this person is not
6:06
the best Communicator. Sure.
6:08
But also maybe they're really trying to help because it seems
6:11
like you're struggling with so many things all the time and you
6:15
know, they are actively trying to solve a problem because they
6:20
love you in as much as they can. Which seems to only be by
6:24
potentially suggesting something.
6:27
Because usually when they tried to help in other ways, you don't
6:29
let them. So here's an example of how it
6:32
would go a woman says to her husband Work is so terrible.
6:36
I hate work. So he's I guess supposed to say,
6:40
oh my God, that sucks for you. Now, let's just think about it.
6:44
So he says, oh, that's so terrible for you.
6:46
Well, I have never seen that one go well, yet what?
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She's usually saying is solve this problem.
6:55
Basically, tell me I don't have to work or tell me that I am
6:59
being unappreciated. They are, and I should apply for
7:02
a different job or basically say, That is in sucks for you in
7:06
nice word. So also maybe this woman
7:10
complains about everything including work.
7:12
So we really doesn't know what to say.
7:13
So then he just says aha. Right now I am certainly saying
7:17
not saying that there are not people who are shitty listeners,
7:20
of course there's this normal distribution of everything,
7:23
including listening speaking everything but we have to also
7:27
look at the person who's complaining all the time and
7:29
then finding infinite problems with the way that other people
7:33
respond to them complaining. All the time.
7:35
This is an issue and it is usually the issue of the help
7:38
rejecting complainer. So how do you deal then with a
7:43
help rejecting complainer? Well, the first thing to do is
7:47
to understand that this probably is not that you just haven't
7:51
hacked the system of how to respond.
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So, frequently people think, oh, because my spouse continues to
8:03
tell me that I'm a bad listener in a bad Communicator.
8:05
This must be why they're so upset with me all the time.
8:08
This is really not usually why they're so upset.
8:10
With you all the time, it doesn't have to do with that.
8:12
You don't say the right thing at the right time, there's usually
8:15
bigger issues at play. Also you have to look for a
8:19
pattern. Is this person always
8:22
complaining kind of to everybody if.
8:25
So then this is kind of just what they do.
8:28
They will never ever accept your help or your feedback because
8:32
they like to complain. This was probably the culture
8:35
and their family of origin, which you know if you're married
8:39
to that, And so think about it, do their parents always
8:43
complain, do they? And if it's your wife that she
8:47
and her mother constantly have complaining conversations on the
8:50
phone, where there's endless complaints.
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If so, then this is just kind of what she does.
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This is just how it goes and men can also obviously be help
9:00
rejecting complainers. Although usually they do not get
9:03
up their wives ass about how she is or isn't responding to the
9:06
complaint, but men can certainly complain.
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And Reject all fol, all help. So, you know, a man can
9:14
frequently say, oh, work sucks. Yeah, work sucks.
9:17
Are a bunch of assholes. And so, then, you know, after a
9:20
while, the wife will be like, well, you know, maybe and he's
9:22
like, nah, nah, that wouldn't work because of this.
9:25
And she'll be like, well, maybe this.
9:26
And he's like, no, no, no. You don't know how this industry
9:29
works and then she'll say well what about?
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And he'll be like ah fuck it and then he'll just like you know,
9:35
go sulk somewhere else. So both men and women can be
9:38
help, rejecting complainers. So if you if this the first step
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obviously is, if this is your partner and there are constant
9:46
complainer understand, it's really probably not you.
9:49
That is the problem. You know, you've tried a whole
9:52
bunch of shit, right? I mean, when they tell you to
9:54
just nod and say that sounds hard, I'm sure you've tried it.
9:57
I mean, you could try it right now.
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Maybe they'll be the one person in the world due to Chronic
10:01
complainer and she responds. Well, to that sounds really hard
10:05
said over and over doubtful. But maybe now this doesn't mean
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to say, Say that like you should never empathically.
10:13
Listen and say, oh, that sounds really hard ever.
10:15
You should. But usually this is not what to
10:18
do. When somebody is a chronic
10:20
complainer, this is what to do. If somebody says like I had a
10:24
bad day at work, you say, oh, that sucks.
10:26
But if every day is a bad day at work, you know, and then you
10:31
yourself are reprimanded for ever saying anything that isn't
10:34
oh that sucks. Well then, you can imagine that
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this person has a chronic complaining problem and then You
10:40
get a lot of freedom because you don't have to think of yourself
10:43
anymore. As a terrible Communicator, who
10:45
is like the world's worst partner because you can think
10:48
know this person really just likes to complain that you know,
10:51
or they may not like to complain but it's a culture of their home
10:55
probably and something they're very familiar with.
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The next thing that you could do is you can point out when you're
11:01
being reprimanded for not listening effectively.
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You can try to point out how you feel at some point.
11:08
You know, maybe not in the middle of while they're
11:10
hysterical crying because you're such a bad complainer but our
11:14
listener. But at some point you can say
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you know I feel like you're really very negative about work
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and I don't know what to say or do.
11:23
I'm concerned that you are extremely unremittingly upset at
11:29
work constantly you know. And that is why I have suggested
11:34
that you get a different job and you know sometimes Quite
11:38
honestly, the person has no idea how they're coming off, they
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really don't. So they don't know that they're
11:44
coming off as constantly very negative in their mind work,
11:48
maybe kind of all right. Or like whatever work is
11:50
supposed to be, but they, they have no idea because again, when
11:55
they grew up or in their friend group and or wherever constant
12:00
complaining is the norm. So this actually may give
12:02
somebody a little bit of a wake-up, call it also,
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hopefully, if it's somebody who has Any sort of self-awareness
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and they're constantly - about work.
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This may actually involve acts per them to think, if I am
12:17
really negative about work so much, maybe I should get a
12:20
different job, right? But the point is, people don't
12:23
usually say this, they don't usually say, you know, I'm
12:26
concerned because this is a constant thing.
12:28
You know what they usually say when they get frustrated is oh
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you're always complaining, I can't do anything right.
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Can I, you know, whatever I say is wrong with you, so they kind
12:37
of bring It. Back to like the communication
12:40
stuff and away from the problem at hand, which appears to be
12:43
that this person is consistently negative about, at least one
12:47
thing. Now, sometimes there is a
12:51
solution that the person wants and that's why they keep on
12:55
complaining. So sometimes like a woman is
12:57
complaining and complaining about work and missing like the
13:00
kids or something because she really wants the husband to say
13:03
so stop work. You know, so go to part-time,
13:06
you know, if you want to stay home with the kids, stay.
13:08
Kids, right? So let's say that.
13:11
That was the thing that the woman secretly wanted, if this
13:14
is you, and you are constantly complaining about an issue and
13:17
hoping that your partner, finally recognizes what it is
13:21
and you've been rejecting all of their previous Solutions because
13:24
they're just the wrong solution. Well, instead of wanting them to
13:28
read your mind which may never happen.
13:30
It's usually going to work out a lot better to say what you're
13:35
thinking, you know, which in this case might be Be well, you
13:40
know what, actually there is a solution and it isn't any of
13:43
these things that you're telling me about how to communicate with
13:45
my boss better. It's that I don't really want to
13:48
work until the kids are in school and maybe the guy will be
13:52
receptive, maybe it'll lead to a different kind of conversation,
13:54
who knows? But if you have some and it's
13:57
not, obviously, this is just one example.
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But, you know, or like let's say like you're constantly
14:04
complaining about your back hurting, a lot of people do.
14:08
Like this and they really want to ask for a back rub and to the
14:12
other person who may not know this or is not from a, you know,
14:16
has never really given back rubs and relationships before or
14:19
something. They'll keep coming up with all
14:21
these different solutions. Why don't you go to a
14:22
chiropractor, why don't you go to acupuncture?
14:24
Why don't you try this or that? Why don't we stretch together or
14:28
like some bullshit? But then the other person is
14:30
keeps on waiting for them to say or I'll give you a back rub or
14:34
like or why don't you go get a Weekly massage or like whatever
14:37
it is that they're you know? Secretly wanting the person to
14:39
say. But again, mind reading is not
14:43
really a skill that most people have.
14:46
So if you recognize yourself in this and you reject all
14:50
solutions, because you do have a secret preferred solution that
14:53
the person didn't hit on yet and you're just resentful that they
14:56
didn't, this is taking up years of your life here, this
15:00
resentment and it's ruining your relationship.
15:03
You might as well, just ask for what you want, and then at least
15:06
be mad that they didn't do it. Don't Be mad that they didn't
15:09
think about it, that's on you. If they don't do it, then you
15:12
could be mad if you want. But you know, at least ask So,
15:17
if you are a person by the way, these this is not just in
15:20
relationships. If you have a parent and if
15:22
you're an adult child who has a parent that is a help rejecting
15:26
complainer then with very good as the gray rock method which is
15:30
I've have post about it. I could link you to that in the
15:33
description gray rock is a method for dealing with
15:36
difficult people in which you just act.
15:40
Really Bland I think I even did a podcast episode about this now
15:43
that I'm talking about it you just act real Ali Bland and you
15:47
just say ah ha ha ha, and you do not give them anything to really
15:51
engage on. So anything dramatic.
15:54
So you know, if your mother calls you up and she started
15:57
saying, oh, you know, everything hurts, my doctors are terrible,
16:01
nobody loves me, you know, I dying slowly.
16:05
I think that I have some kind of cancer but none of the tests
16:08
show cancer and I don't know where I should live and I don't
16:11
have enough money to retire. And Bubba, Bubba, Bubba, you
16:14
just say aha. Aha, I'm sorry.
16:18
Uh-huh. Yeah.
16:20
Uh-huh. And they're going to stop doing
16:23
it at some point and maybe move on to your poor sibling or
16:26
something. Because you're not that much fun
16:28
to engage with. Of course, if this really messes
16:31
with your head, you know, then you know, you got to think about
16:34
what boundaries to put in place for when you pick up the phone
16:37
but in general, if if somebody like a co-worker or a parent is
16:42
a help rejecting complainer, just stop giving help.
16:46
Stop giving Solutions. Now you have a term for it so
16:49
you can know it's a thing. There are people who tried to
16:54
evoke people, giving them solutions.
16:56
They try to elicit that but then they hate it when it happens
17:00
because it isn't the right solution or because in some way
17:03
their entire goal was to feel miserable and you are trying to
17:06
take them away and divert them from that goal.
17:09
So it's not your job to be anybody's punching bag if they
17:13
just want to be miserable and go on Long, Dance about how
17:16
everything sucks now is a multiple choice here.
17:22
Do a true-false, is it helped rejecting complainer when your
17:26
wife comes home and says oh you know my boss gave me, you know a
17:33
2 out of 5 on the evaluation and I'm sad, no false.
17:38
This is not a help rejecting complainer, right?
17:41
That's just somebody who is, you know, sad or upset about
17:44
something. What about this one?
17:46
Oh my boss is a real piece of shit.
17:48
She's always such a piece of shit, you know, you tell me that
17:50
I could get another job but I don't really have the skills to
17:52
get another job. You told me that, I could quit
17:54
work but I don't want to quit work because I would feel too
17:56
guilty. You tell me that I could go back
17:59
to school. But, you know, I think that I
18:01
would hate school. And you know what, I just really
18:04
hate when you just sit there and don't say anything.
18:07
So this is, this is a help rejecting a blader.
18:09
If that is the case, then you do what I told you to do.
18:13
Which is, first of all, you know, you diagnose it in.
18:16
Had you say I hope rejecting complainer I guess it's not me.
18:20
It's her. What does it come from while I
18:22
hear her family? Does this sort of thing a lot?
18:23
Fine. Nothing to do with me.
18:25
I could take it less personally, second of all.
18:27
Now, I'm going to tell her how I feel.
18:29
You know, when you come in every day most days after work and you
18:33
tell me about your boss and how much your boss sucks.
18:36
It really makes me concerned that this is not a good
18:38
situation for you and I'm concerned.
18:40
So I tried to help you. So if there is something that we
18:45
can do to get you out of this, Situation.
18:46
I would like it and you seem pretty depressed about this and
18:50
I'm concerned about you. So, make it about your concern
18:53
about the person and sometimes that is really what they
18:58
secretly. Want you to do, is to express a
19:01
lot of concern and worry and thereby show your commitment and
19:05
your love. Instead of just trying to shoot
19:07
Solutions. But if it's a true textbook how
19:11
projecting complainer they will say well that's just crazy
19:15
because you know that there's no Listen to this.
19:16
And now on top of it, I feel guilty because you're concerned.
19:18
And then, you know what, you know, what they were always is
19:21
what do I always say? Couples counseling.
19:24
If you're at the end of your rope with a help rejecting
19:27
complainer then and that is your partner, then couples counseling
19:31
can really help. Because at some point, the
19:34
couple's counselor is going to notice the same pattern and they
19:38
are going to point out the difficulty of communicating in
19:43
this consistently - style and hoping for a positive response
19:47
and how this actually does not set anybody up to potentially
19:50
succeed in this relationship. So, it's always good to have a
19:54
third party there who can see dysfunctional communication
19:58
patterns and point them out, not in a nasty, shaming way.
20:02
But in a way, like G like you seem so upset, but yet he
20:06
doesn't know what to say. And so can we all work together
20:09
on what should be done in this situation?
20:12
And maybe if you validate you and tells you, we You or maybe
20:16
this or maybe that or maybe we just don't talk about the same
20:20
topic every single day for 45 minutes at least, you know, etc,
20:23
etc. Alright, so hopefully you guys
20:27
liked this idea and you can probably spot many help
20:32
rejecting complainers in your life, just by my descriptors.
20:36
And if you are the help rejecting complainer then do not
20:40
reject this. Help this idea of therapy helps
20:43
with this because you were probably raised by another help
20:46
rejecting complainer and it's probably a parent that you get
20:49
frustrated with talking to even now.
20:52
So, if you, if you notice this description is you then work on
20:58
it because it is a difficult interpersonal, trait.
21:01
And it will be passed down to your kids who are going to, then
21:05
come home and say, my teacher hates me.
21:07
Nope, nothing to do about it. Yep, I hate school.
21:09
Nope, nothing to do about it. My friends are terrible, nothing
21:11
to do about it now. Nothing to do about it, right?
21:13
And this is not what you want to model.
21:16
Your kids instead you want to model receptivity to help
21:21
responsiveness to what other people say and overarching
21:26
positive vision of your place in the world and of the future, you
21:31
know, because the depressive Triad the it's called the
21:35
depressive cognitive Triad, which is the types of thoughts
21:38
people have when they're depressed are negative thoughts
21:40
about self world and future. So sometimes being a help
21:44
rejecting complainer can We indicate on diagnose depression
21:48
as well. So, you'll never know until you
21:52
go to a therapist and or Google DSM, diagnosis for depression
21:57
and you could knock off your own symptoms on the chart.
21:59
It's not too hard to do, then you'll be armed with some
22:02
knowledge. If you do seek therapy with
22:03
whether or not you meet criteria for depression, so many of us
22:06
do. All right, guys, have a good
22:08
night and I'll talk to everyone soon.