Latest / Recovering Out Loud / Facing the Darkness: Depression, Suicidal Thoughts & Survival in Recovery

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Facing the Darkness: Depression, Suicidal Thoughts & Survival in Recovery · Recovering Out Loud

• 0:01
  Hi there, welcome back or welcome to Recovering Out Loud
• 0:04
  Podcast, the show where we get real about mental health and
• 0:08
  addiction. I'm so glad you're here.
• 0:10
  If you or someone you love is struggling with drugs or
• 0:13
  alcohol, please reach out for help.
• 0:16
  Send me a message on all social media platforms at Recovering
• 0:20
  Out Loud Pod or by e-mail at recoveringoutloudpod@gmail.com.
• 0:26
  You are no longer alone. Thanks so much for coming down,
• 0:45
  Mary. I really appreciate it.
• 0:46
  We met online. I was watching some of your
• 0:48
  videos. And correct me, I hope I don't
• 0:50
  screw this up, but your account is mental health with Mary.
• 0:54
  I love it. Yeah, I love it.
• 0:56
  Yeah. You do these, like, hilarious
• 0:57
  little videos where you're kind of whispering into the camera
• 0:59
  and, like, you know, telling your story.
• 1:01
  And I just really like that. I I I found it awesome.
• 1:03
  And you reached out to me. And so I'm happy you came down.
• 1:06
  Thank you. Thank you.
• 1:08
  Why don't you tell us a little bit about, you know, what
• 1:11
  brought you into recovery and you're very passionate now about
• 1:14
  mental health and recovery and how you kind of came to this
• 1:17
  point of being an advocate and speaking out about it and making
• 1:21
  these hilarious videos. Honestly I feel like mental
• 1:25
  health and addiction and recovery are spoken about but
• 1:28
  not truly spoken about. I feel like we live in this
• 1:32
  world on social media where everyone is very like, drink
• 1:36
  your green juice or go for a 10 minute walk or do this or do
• 1:40
  that. Buy my product.
• 1:42
  Exactly. And then like then you see all
• 1:44
  these mental health advocates where they're advocating mental
• 1:46
  health, but they're also like a gin event and you kind of
• 1:48
  forget, like my followers are either addicts or people in
• 1:52
  recovery. They don't want to fucking see
• 1:54
  you. What is that, by the way?
• 1:55
  What's the gin event? Yeah.
• 1:57
  There was this like gin company that had this like event kind of
• 2:02
  thing and there were a lot of like Wellness influences and
• 2:05
  mental health advocates that were at the event.
• 2:06
  And I was like, I'm so sorry. If you're following pages people
• 2:10
  that are addicts or or in recovery, should you really be
• 2:14
  promoting that? So I kind of figured I'm nine
• 2:17
  years sober. If someones going to talk about
• 2:20
  it, somebody that's actually probably lived it should
• 2:23
  probably talk about it. And let me tell you, it's scary
• 2:26
  at like at points because I'm exposing not only myself but my
• 2:30
  family as well. And that can be quite
• 2:32
  challenging. Have you had any backlash from
• 2:34
  that? Like people kind of saying stay
• 2:37
  in your lane, you know, because there's a lot of good positivity
• 2:40
  and negativity. Oh my goodness, absolutely.
• 2:43
  There has been people, including my own family, feeling very
• 2:46
  embarrassed and ashamed, not because just my past, but
• 2:50
  because of where where I am now. And I completely respect that
• 2:54
  because again, we've lived in a culture.
• 2:57
  You've been Natalie, me being Greek, where suffering in
• 3:01
  silence is far more admirable and protecting people's
• 3:05
  reputation is far more admirable.
• 3:07
  But unfortunately that ends up either A killing us or B putting
• 3:11
  us into in these chairs. Exactly.
• 3:16
  Exactly. Exactly.
• 3:19
  Yeah. What so, so you're nine years
• 3:20
  sober. Amazing.
• 3:21
  Congratulations. You were saying you got, you
• 3:24
  know, before we were talking about a little bit about your
• 3:26
  back story and you got sober at 23.
• 3:28
  Yes, right. Or 23.
• 3:29
  Yes, yes, yes, same like me. I came in at 23.
• 3:33
  What was that like? Tell tell us a little bit about
• 3:35
  what that was like and how you ended up in recovery.
• 3:38
  Well, technically, to be honest with you, I hit rock bottom.
• 3:42
  I had absolutely nothing and no one left.
• 3:45
  And I feel like unfortunately, I had to hit rock bottom.
• 3:49
  And I'll be honest with you, like my dad and my sister were
• 3:52
  nothing but supportive, but they also had to be like, you know
• 3:54
  what? If this is how you're going to
• 3:55
  be, we're not supporting this. So I had to unfortunately hit
• 4:00
  rock bottom in order to get help.
• 4:02
  It took me more than one time to figure it out.
• 4:06
  I was young and stupid. I was also with a lot of people
• 4:10
  that raving was really big back then.
• 4:13
  It was really, really big. And unfortunately I couldn't
• 4:16
  just rave for the weekend. I had to keep doing the drugs
• 4:21
  from Monday to Sunday. It was what I needed to function
• 4:24
  and I was with partner where I don't want to shit on him.
• 4:27
  We're obviously not together now where he still tell this day
• 4:31
  partakes in it and good for him because he's able to
• 4:34
  differentiate like the difference between partying on a
• 4:36
  Friday and being able to go to work the next day.
• 4:39
  Meet you. I couldn't and and that caused a
• 4:42
  lot of issues as well in our relationship because he was very
• 4:45
  much like, well, what do you mean you're not doing it?
• 4:47
  I said I can't come out, but I can't.
• 4:49
  And it caused a lot of issues because I think our initial
• 4:54
  connection was based off of that.
• 4:56
  But unfortunately I knew that I didn't have the willpower to be
• 5:00
  like, no, I'm going to stop. I was like, I need more, I need
• 5:04
  more. So it became that kind of really
• 5:07
  tug of war of I don't have the willpower to be able to be like,
• 5:10
  no, I'm stopping. And kudos to people that can't.
• 5:13
  Like I'm not shitting on them, but like I I can't.
• 5:17
  Yeah, yeah, once I start, you know, I don't know how to stop,
• 5:20
  right? No, I don't know how to and I
• 5:21
  don't know how to stay stopped too.
• 5:22
  That's the other thing that's this is like the two-part thing
• 5:25
  in addiction, right? You, you bring up a really
• 5:28
  important point there. I talked to a lot of people that
• 5:31
  have had past relationships that were built on, you know, this
• 5:35
  connection of drug use, partying, alcohol use, where you
• 5:39
  get sober and you're kind of like, huh, we don't have a lot
• 5:42
  in common. We have nothing in common.
• 5:43
  What the Hell's going on? I'm like, yeah, I'm like, OK,
• 5:47
  like, you wanna pass me the mozzarella stick?
• 5:50
  Like, what the fuck are we doing?
• 5:51
  Like, he literally got to the point where I was like, this is
• 5:55
  a disservice to the both of us. Like, I'm not the girl for you.
• 5:58
  You're not the guy for me. And like it like, I wish him all
• 6:03
  the best, like I truly do. And he's an amazing person.
• 6:06
  Just not for me. And like now he's with someone
• 6:10
  where they party and do all that stuff and God bless them, they
• 6:13
  can party and go to work the next day.
• 6:14
  I. Can't Yeah, yeah.
• 6:18
  And then yeah, it's like you get you get sober and you have not a
• 6:21
  lot in common. You actually don't even enjoy
• 6:23
  each other's company, right. And the same, the same thing
• 6:25
  happened for me with my friends, right where I first, when I
• 6:29
  first got sober, I came back from Minnesota and it was
• 6:31
  advised that I I kind of still take some more time in my
• 6:35
  recovery community and stay away from my friends.
• 6:36
  And that was, it was hard for my friends, but I was so bought in
• 6:40
  at that point that I was like, I'm doing whatever you say, man,
• 6:43
  because I don't want to go back there, right?
• 6:45
  I don't want to do that again. And so I spent I think it was
• 6:48
  like 4 months before my friends even even heard anything from
• 6:51
  me. And I needed to do that, right?
• 6:53
  And then so my point with all that was I start hanging out
• 6:57
  with my friends again and you start to realize like who your
• 7:00
  real friends are and who your fake friends are.
• 7:02
  And when I say fake friends, I just like you said, it's just
• 7:04
  you're just don't have your interests are different.
• 7:07
  You're, you know, you're, you're doing different things and then
• 7:09
  you kind of just slowly fade away.
• 7:11
  Right, exactly. They're like they're good
• 7:13
  people, They're just not good for you.
• 7:14
  And that's not shitting on them as a person.
• 7:16
  It's just to everyone's built differently.
• 7:21
  Some people have, I don't want to see a stronger willpower, but
• 7:24
  let's be honest, like I can't be friends with people that rave
• 7:28
  every weekend because I still have that monkey on my back
• 7:32
  being like, well, like, and if I dab into it once, who we
• 7:38
  kidding? Yeah, It's not a one time
• 7:40
  situation. Yeah.
• 7:41
  And we don't know what's gonna happen next.
• 7:43
  No, no, no do. You still go to rave sober or
• 7:46
  have you? Or do you still like the music
• 7:48
  even? So OK, so funny enough, is I
• 7:50
  still OK? So I only listen to the music
• 7:53
  when I run because running is I don't like, I don't know if
• 7:58
  you've noticed, but like I run at least 10 to 15 KA day.
• 8:01
  It's just kind of what keeps me sane, and I love that music.
• 8:04
  And to be honest, I only like it when I'm running.
• 8:08
  Maybe because it's giving me the same endorphins that the drugs
• 8:13
  used to do at the same time. But I did go to a few raves
• 8:16
  sober. Well, it was not my scene.
• 8:27
  I suckle like a sore thumb, like a real sore thumb, if you know
• 8:32
  what I mean. Like I was like, ohh, sweet
• 8:34
  Lord, this is not yeah. Ravings really changed and it's
• 8:37
  like, no, I've changed. No yeah no, no, I change.
• 8:41
  I I just couldn't. I was like this is disgusting.
• 8:44
  I was like, I don't know what time no yeah and like yeah just
• 8:47
  wasn't my vibe. I.
• 8:48
  Always say this but because I still do.
• 8:50
  I really enjoy techno music and I still do from time to time
• 8:53
  like going to to raves. The times don't really line up
• 8:56
  with my schedule right now. It's hard for me to stay up till
• 8:59
  6:00 AM nowadays, but I I used to go to after hours and, you
• 9:02
  know, leave at 10 AM. Oh my God, Good old CZ.
• 9:05
  Yeah, good old CZ. I would literally walk out
• 9:09
  Sunday with my eyes peeled open. I was like, Oh my God, it's
• 9:12
  11:00. Like, first of all, when the
• 9:16
  bouncers at Zone know you, that's a problem too.
• 9:19
  Yeah. When you're the last one to
• 9:21
  leave Zone because the lights go on, that's a problem.
• 9:25
  That's a problem. Yeah, that's a like when I went
• 9:28
  to the Zone closing party, I cried.
• 9:31
  That's a problem. My favorite after hours is
• 9:33
  closing. What a tragedy.
• 9:35
  Yeah, it turns out they just reopened up again, like
• 9:37
  somewhere else. I was here.
• 9:38
  Yeah, and that's all they reopened on Queen St. and a lot
• 9:42
  less sketchy. I got to know all the bouncers
• 9:44
  there. But yeah, so my in my relapse, I
• 9:46
  spent a lot of time at that place and man, I I look back and
• 9:50
  I'm like some of the conversations you have with
• 9:52
  people on those on those patios are on those smoking areas.
• 9:55
  Like, Oh my God, I think back now I'm like, oh, you were going
• 9:59
  to change the world together. And then oh for.
• 10:01
  Sure. 10 AM, came around and I was like, Get Me Out of here,
• 10:04
  right? And why is that guy carrying a
• 10:06
  briefcase walking down the street?
• 10:07
  Like, what's going on, right? He's going to work, You know,
• 10:09
  I'm going home at 10 AM. Something happens, though.
• 10:13
  Something happens where now you go to a rave, you go to a party
• 10:18
  and like, there's like this shift in the night, you know?
• 10:20
  2:00 AM, probably around 2:00 AM, people just start to change,
• 10:24
  right? And it's like zombies start
• 10:26
  coming out and you're like, OK, I, I've had my fun here and it's
• 10:28
  time to go home, right? But we never went home.
• 10:31
  We just kept going. I was that zombie.
• 10:33
  And like, and like, there were moments where like, I was like,
• 10:36
  I think this person's eyes like going.
• 10:39
  And I was like, whatever, doesn't matter.
• 10:41
  Like I'm still jamming. And then I was like, like, I
• 10:44
  look back at it now and like, I have a daughter.
• 10:47
  She turns 1 tomorrow. Wow.
• 10:50
  And I, like, think about him now.
• 10:52
  I'm like, Oh my gosh. If she ever, like, finds out
• 10:55
  about this, which obviously she will because I'm all over social
• 10:58
  media, she's gonna be like, mom, what the hell was wrong with
• 11:00
  you? Like, did you not think?
• 11:02
  And I'll be like, no, honey, I really didn't think, which is
• 11:05
  why I'm gonna try and, like, tell you, like, if you're gonna
• 11:09
  party, please just be smart about it because you know what
• 11:13
  can happen when you, I don't want to say, have the wrong
• 11:16
  friends, but when you have an environment that isn't best
• 11:19
  suited for you. And like, I'm not here to shit
• 11:22
  talk people. I'm just here to be like,
• 11:25
  sometimes the people that come into your life come in for a
• 11:27
  reason. And hopefully you learn that
• 11:29
  lesson before. Sorry to trigger you end up 6
• 11:32
  feet under. Yeah.
• 11:33
  Yeah, so I had a mom reach out to me last week totally
• 11:39
  overwhelmed, not knowing how to help her 15 year old son.
• 11:42
  She picked up What's Wrong with My Teen after I had mentioned it
• 11:45
  here and messaged me a week later saying she finally felt
• 11:48
  seen. That's why I bring stuff like
• 11:49
  this up. If you're a parent in the thick
• 11:51
  of it, confused, scared, or just tired, this book is a great
• 11:55
  place to start. Check the link in the show notes
• 11:58
  below. It's actually a good point.
• 11:59
  I was going to ask you like, what do you, what does a what
• 12:01
  does a parent say to their kid when well, mom, you use drugs,
• 12:04
  right? Like, why wouldn't I use drugs,
• 12:06
  right? But to your point, there's a lot
• 12:08
  of, you know, things nowadays where you can take precautions,
• 12:10
  right? Fentanyl testing kit is the
• 12:12
  first thing that comes to mind. Even drug testing in general,
• 12:14
  it's it's like really cheap. You want to know what's so
• 12:17
  funny? Please Fucking at one point.
• 12:19
  Thank God we got the kid. At one point the can I say the
• 12:23
  MD made the word. Yeah, yeah.
• 12:24
  OK. We love talking.
• 12:26
  About drugs, Sorry, sorry. So the so the Molly that we were
• 12:29
  doing it was fucking bad bath salts.
• 12:32
  And I only found that out like 3 months later because my partner
• 12:36
  at the time, he, he got like a drug kit test and he was like,
• 12:41
  Oh my God, we're doing bath salts.
• 12:42
  I was like. Jesus.
• 12:44
  Excuse us? Like all this shit that we've
• 12:47
  put into our bodies and like, yes, I get it.
• 12:48
  My body is a temple. Let me tell you, I did not treat
• 12:51
  my body like a temple. I treat like a fucking trash
• 12:53
  can. Yeah, yeah, A.
• 12:55
  Big old one of those one of those trash cans on the
• 12:56
  driveways when the house is getting renovated.
• 12:58
  Just throw it in there. Worse.
• 13:00
  Worse. Drywall and bricks and shit.
• 13:03
  Like it's, it's so funny to think about.
• 13:07
  Like now I check if like the meat was grass fed, but back
• 13:11
  then I was taking pills from strangers like like it's so
• 13:14
  funny to like see how like though now I'm like, wait, is
• 13:19
  this made with like no pesticides?
• 13:21
  No this, no that. But yet like though 10 years ago
• 13:25
  I was like oh magic pill box. Let's go for it.
• 13:28
  I mean this one was better than the last batch, OK?
• 13:30
  Perfect. Cool for me, Yeah.
• 13:32
  Oh. My God, no, it's so true.
• 13:33
  It's funny to see the transition when you become an adult, even
• 13:37
  though to be honest with you, I don't think you become an adult
• 13:40
  and I'm only 31. I don't think you'd be become an
• 13:41
  adult until you're 30. Like, to be fully transparent, I
• 13:44
  think 30 and under you're still a kid figuring out your life.
• 13:48
  Yeah, like truly. Yeah, a lot changed for me too.
• 13:52
  I mean, when you get sober though, like at 23, you do
• 13:56
  mature a lot quicker, right? Because they say when you're
• 13:59
  using drugs, your brain just stops maturing up until the
• 14:01
  point you stop using drugs, like at least the way we were using
• 14:04
  them. So I remember being more mature
• 14:07
  than a lot of people my age when I came in at 23.
• 14:09
  And, you know, you just start looking for different, like I
• 14:13
  said, different things in your life, different preferences.
• 14:17
  You're, you're, you know, you, you value going to the movies on
• 14:19
  a Friday night instead of going to the bar, right?
• 14:22
  What was it like for you coming in at 23 with your friends and
• 14:25
  family? How did they react?
• 14:29
  My friends and my family were extremely supportive to be
• 14:33
  honest with you. They all knew I had a problem.
• 14:37
  My good friends that I'm still friends with till now, even
• 14:40
  their parents who God bless them all, they were all very
• 14:43
  supportive of me getting help. They knew I was a troubled kid.
• 14:48
  I had, I had a very, I don't want to say difficult child to
• 14:53
  but it was quite challenging. It's funny, I've never really
• 14:58
  shared this too much, but my mom, she, I've talked about her
• 15:01
  leaving, but I've never actually talked to the extent of her
• 15:03
  leaving. My mom left us for another man
• 15:06
  and that was very challenging for me to stomach and I blamed
• 15:11
  that for the reason I became who I was.
• 15:14
  But I have to remember that her doing what she did was a
• 15:18
  reflection of her own ethics and morals and values.
• 15:21
  It had nothing to do with me and me using that as the reason to
• 15:25
  use OR or me trying to attempt suicide and doing all of these
• 15:30
  bad things to myself. It was actually my fault.
• 15:33
  And this is where we fall a lot is we are very quick to be like,
• 15:37
  well I'm a victim. Nobody fucking told you to
• 15:40
  inject the God damn needle in between your toes.
• 15:43
  You chose that. Yes, your mom left you but that
• 15:47
  doesn't give you the right to now allow your life to
• 15:51
  completely fall apart. It's OK.
• 15:54
  Yes it's shitty what she did, but you allowing that to
• 16:00
  basically control your whole life and the rest of your
• 16:03
  upbringing? That's a youth fault.
• 16:05
  That's not in her fault. And justify your actions.
• 16:07
  Exactly, exactly. And that was one thing also that
• 16:11
  with a lot of rehab places and a lot of recovery, as I find it's
• 16:15
  very victimhood mentality. I don't know if you've seen that
• 16:19
  a lot, but it's well, this happened to me.
• 16:21
  Well, you know what, there's people that have had way worse
• 16:23
  and they've never done drugs, you know what I mean?
• 16:26
  So yes, did that affect me? Absolutely.
• 16:31
  But I was the one that chose to do drugs.
• 16:33
  I was the one that chose to self harm.
• 16:36
  I was the one that did all this. Was there reason behind it?
• 16:40
  Sure. OK, but who we kidding?
• 16:43
  When my mom did what she did, she didn't realize that it was
• 16:47
  gonna impact me to this degree. But I also can't be blaming her
• 16:52
  as well because she didn't tell me do the drugs.
• 16:55
  I was the one that couldn't deal with the pain.
• 16:57
  So I was like, screw this. Let me find a way out.
• 17:00
  You know what I mean? So it was kind of wow, I'm sorry
• 17:03
  I got so heated. It's so weird.
• 17:04
  Like my God, I know, sorry, but it's it's so crazy to think that
• 17:09
  we as addicts or X addicts or I guess we're still addicts.
• 17:14
  I guess I don't know what to say.
• 17:15
  Like, I don't know X addicts. I consider myself an.
• 17:17
  Addict. Yeah, right.
• 17:18
  Like I was an addict. I'm an addict.
• 17:20
  Whatever. Same thing.
• 17:22
  It was still our fault. Yes, pain happened to us, but we
• 17:26
  had the option. Like I look at my sister, for
• 17:29
  instance. Her and I have the same
• 17:32
  upbringing, same life. She's completely fine with
• 17:35
  substances, you know what I mean?
• 17:36
  So it was kind of like I was the one that took it.
• 17:39
  And yes it was painful but again I was the one that chose to self
• 17:44
  destruct instead of being like this happened to me make it
• 17:47
  better. I used it as a crutch to keep
• 17:50
  doing the bullshit that I was doing.
• 17:52
  And then keep telling yourself that it's okay if everybody had
• 17:55
  their mom leave them, they would use too, right?
• 17:57
  They would shoot heroin, they would take meth, whatever.
• 17:59
  Whatever your thing is. Right.
• 18:00
  Yeah, but turns out a lot of people had moms leave and they
• 18:03
  were like, no, Mary, it was just you.
• 18:07
  So you got to stop using that excuse as your crutch because
• 18:10
  then you'll never get better. And oddly enough is we have a
• 18:13
  very complicated relationship, her and I, and still tell this
• 18:17
  day sometimes I'm like, wait a second, I'm blaming her.
• 18:20
  That's not cool. That's not cool.
• 18:22
  I'm the one self destructing because I can't manage my own
• 18:26
  emotions. Sure it affected me, but I also
• 18:31
  got to take ownership for the shit that I've.
• 18:33
  Caught. Yeah, there's, there's a a few
• 18:35
  things. It's a great point.
• 18:37
  Sorry. I went off.
• 18:37
  No, you're good. I I think it's a, it's an
• 18:39
  important topic because yeah, it's, I was taught when I came
• 18:44
  in that we have a part in everything in our lives, right.
• 18:48
  The other thing too, is like, you know, your mom leaves you,
• 18:51
  your dad leaves you, your husband, whatever leaves you,
• 18:57
  it's done. It's already happened, right?
• 18:59
  So, like, why am I still dwelling in it?
• 19:01
  There's a lot of healing that has to be done, right?
• 19:04
  But what's my part in it? Well, OK, you know, I went to a
• 19:08
  lot of people might not like this, but there's even a part.
• 19:12
  So I went to treatment with a guy.
• 19:15
  He's a beautiful, beautiful human being.
• 19:18
  He was sexually abused when he was a kid and he was so angry,
• 19:22
  so angry right when he came in the the transformation.
• 19:26
  I watched this man go through, you know, having all this
• 19:29
  resentment and victim and what do you like?
• 19:32
  What do you mean? I have to do anything to heal
• 19:34
  from this. What do you mean?
• 19:35
  Like, no, it was her fault, their fault.
• 19:37
  This this happened the his part in all of this.
• 19:42
  And this is just my opinion. Like I said, a lot of people
• 19:44
  might not like this, but what if, what if my part in that,
• 19:48
  sure, it was a horrible thing that happened.
• 19:49
  It doesn't, you know, give that person any right to do it.
• 19:52
  It's a horrible thing should never have happened, but it did.
• 19:55
  It happened. What if my part in it is not
• 19:57
  forgiving that person, Right? And that's a really fucking hard
• 20:00
  concept to comprehend. Why would I forgive them?
• 20:03
  They win. Why would you know, there's this
• 20:04
  ego thing that comes in and it's like, well, resentment is like
• 20:07
  drinking poison and hoping the other person dies.
• 20:09
  That's right. So like I'm having this
• 20:11
  resentment towards my mom. She's not even thinking about
• 20:13
  it. I'm the only one suffering here.
• 20:16
  Now what right, I, you know, I'm not in control of what happens
• 20:19
  in my life, but I'm, I'm in control of how I react to it,
• 20:23
  you know, simple as that. So there's, there's a lot there
• 20:25
  where it's like, and a girl came on this podcast, you know, her
• 20:28
  name's Ashley and she said it perfectly.
• 20:29
  I love the way she said it. She 'cause she had sexual abuse
• 20:32
  in her, her life, right? And you know, she's told this on
• 20:35
  the podcast before she had to shift her mind and she had help
• 20:40
  of a counselor from this victim mentality to survivor mentality.
• 20:45
  And I love that. It's like a simple play on
• 20:46
  words. It's like I'm not a victim, I'm
• 20:49
  a survivor. I went through this.
• 20:50
  Yes, it was hard, but now I have an experience to help and offer
• 20:55
  other people that have been through it right. 1000% I think
• 20:58
  we have this misconception that we're forgiving for them.
• 21:01
  No, you're forgiving for yourself because if you don't
• 21:05
  forgive yes, even though you are forgiving them, it's so that way
• 21:10
  this doesn't hold the power over you anymore.
• 21:13
  And there's this misconception where, well, if I forgive them,
• 21:16
  then all is done. No, no, no, no, no, no, no.
• 21:18
  You are forgiving so that way when you wake up the next day,
• 21:22
  it's less painful for you. Forgiveness, yes, is to make the
• 21:26
  other person feel good, sure. But deep, deep down, forgiveness
• 21:31
  is for you to feel OK with being hurt.
• 21:35
  It's accepting. I've been hurt.
• 21:38
  I forgive them. I may not forget, but I forgive
• 21:41
  them because if I forgive them, I have peace.
• 21:46
  And that's where we have this misconception where forgiveness
• 21:49
  isn't for the other person, it's actually for you to live in
• 21:52
  peace and harmony. As cheesy as those two words
• 21:55
  sound, it's. True, though.
• 21:57
  Yeah. No, it's true.
• 21:58
  Excuse me? Yeah, it's and it's a great
• 22:01
  point, right, Because a lot of us come in here with trauma and
• 22:04
  you know, you, you articulated it well.
• 22:05
  It's like you were justifying it and and healing, you know, that
• 22:09
  was your medicine, right? Was was whatever.
• 22:11
  So what, what can you kind of talk about like what a day
• 22:15
  looked like in addiction versus what a day looks like now, if
• 22:19
  you remember that far? What a yes yes.
• 22:23
  Especially not with my whole baby brain, which is actually a
• 22:25
  real thing. After you have kids, you
• 22:27
  literally lose your memory. OK so me being an addict, I
• 22:33
  literally woke up every day just trying to get high.
• 22:36
  I was trying to chase away the pain.
• 22:38
  I woke up, I felt extremely suicidal.
• 22:41
  I wanted to ignore the suicidal thoughts for drugs and anytime
• 22:46
  any sort of depression or suicide hit I would just numb
• 22:49
  the pain. It was very easy for me to just
• 22:51
  look and numb the pain Now when I'm suicidal, which is every
• 22:56
  fucking morning when I wake up. Because unfortunately that's one
• 22:59
  of my issues is I do with constant suicidal ideologies,
• 23:03
  which is why I'm up running 10 kilometers a day.
• 23:06
  Because if I don't get up and move my body and give myself
• 23:09
  that sort of endorphin, I know I'm going to chase something
• 23:12
  else. So I'm very much on just taking
• 23:14
  care of my mind, body and soul. Whether that's going out with
• 23:18
  friends, obviously sober, or whether that's going to a movie
• 23:23
  or whether that's just sitting at home on the couch with my
• 23:26
  husband or my daughter. I'm just looking at things that
• 23:30
  give me happiness without that happiness, if that makes sense.
• 23:37
  Because I'll be honest with you, I was fucking happy when I was
• 23:39
  doing drugs. But I mean, who wouldn't be?
• 23:41
  You're numbing the pin and you're in La La land.
• 23:43
  I was having the time of my life.
• 23:45
  So there are moments where, don't get me wrong, they're
• 23:50
  still that monkey, they're still that itch.
• 23:52
  But I also know that I have way too much now to lose.
• 23:56
  I have a little girl, I have my friends, I have my family.
• 23:59
  I have people that I guess always relied on me, but I never
• 24:03
  realized that they did. And I was just like, they don't
• 24:06
  need me. They don't need me around.
• 24:08
  And it was very much like almost like a cry for help without me
• 24:11
  realizing that I was like, does nobody see how fucked up I am or
• 24:15
  how messed up I am Now I don't care people see how messed up or
• 24:18
  fucked up I am as long as I get up and I do what I have to do
• 24:22
  kind of thing. So now when that monkey creeps
• 24:24
  up on me and I say monkey because I don't know how else,
• 24:26
  but when that monkey creeps up on me and I can feel it, I'm
• 24:32
  like, you're going for a run, or you're going to, as cliche as
• 24:36
  the sounds, meditate, or you're going to go to church on Sunday,
• 24:41
  or you're going to just sit with the feeling.
• 24:44
  And as much as the feeling sucks, if you don't sit with the
• 24:48
  feeling and you keep running from it, you're going to end up
• 24:50
  running right back into drugs. Yeah, and it ends up ultimately
• 24:53
  blowing up in your face, right, to A to a more intense degree.
• 24:59
  So you've been in addiction yourself.
• 25:01
  You've also dealt with a loved one in addiction, right, And had
• 25:05
  addiction around you while being sober, right?
• 25:08
  And probably both, right. What can you talk about what
• 25:13
  that's like? And I don't know, just I talk
• 25:16
  with a lot of families and it's tough, right?
• 25:19
  It's really hard to watch someone do that to themselves,
• 25:22
  especially when you know the answer, right?
• 25:24
  You're like, I always say this, but it's like there's a river,
• 25:26
  you're on the other side of the river and you have the bridge.
• 25:29
  It's like just, dude, just cross the bridge.
• 25:31
  Like this is the answer. And on the other side, it's like
• 25:35
  they don't see the bridge, right?
• 25:36
  And I was like that too. I didn't see the bridge.
• 25:37
  It was just a a Moat and water and sharks, right?
• 25:41
  What's what's dealing with a loved one in an addiction like?
• 25:44
  And how did you navigate that? It's crazy.
• 25:47
  The addicts gets praised like we were saying, and the families
• 25:50
  forget how much praise they get. It is fucking challenging to sit
• 25:54
  there and watch your loved ones literally destroy their life.
• 25:58
  And you know what can happen if they don't get the help they
• 26:02
  need? And I'll be honest with you, I
• 26:05
  enabled a lot of the behavior because I didn't, because I had
• 26:08
  been an addict myself. I was like, you know what,
• 26:12
  you're going to get better. We're going to like, I enabled a
• 26:16
  lot of it rather than saying, no, this is not acceptable.
• 26:19
  No, instead it was I had a soft spot because nobody else
• 26:23
  understood like I did. So I was like, how do I come
• 26:27
  down on my loved one when they are going to be like, well,
• 26:32
  weren't you in this position? So it was, it was very
• 26:34
  challenging because there were moments where I was like, oh, my
• 26:38
  goodness, was I like this with my family?
• 26:41
  Was I this unhinged, unlogical human being?
• 26:47
  And it became extremely challenging because instead of
• 26:51
  me putting my foot down, I was like, you know what, we'll try
• 26:55
  again tomorrow or I understand. And it was like, Mary, what the
• 27:00
  fuck are you doing? That's not what you're supposed
• 27:03
  to do. And oddly enough is there's been
• 27:05
  a few loved ones and a few that actually ended up unfortunately
• 27:10
  where I've had to go to the funeral.
• 27:11
  And I wish that I was able to be like, what the fuck are you
• 27:16
  doing? And thank God with this loved
• 27:18
  one, I was able to think like, thank God.
• 27:20
  But there were a few that unfortunately, I didn't know how
• 27:26
  to do it because when you're on both sides, it's much more
• 27:31
  challenging because your empathetic part comes out.
• 27:36
  And trying to stay sober in this chaos was very challenging.
• 27:42
  But also hit me, if I'm this person's safe spot in this
• 27:46
  person's safe zone, then I better fucking hold it together
• 27:51
  because if we both fall, then I'm not that person that they
• 27:54
  can run to anymore. And there were a lot of times
• 27:58
  where I was like, Oh my gosh, what am I doing?
• 28:02
  But I was like, but if I don't do this, this person has nobody
• 28:05
  else. So it was very, very challenging
• 28:09
  and it was a very tug of war to deal with that.
• 28:12
  Some of my loved ones had similar addictions and some of
• 28:15
  them didn't which made a lot more easier especially when it
• 28:18
  wasn't the same addiction as me and I say easier as if it was
• 28:23
  like a walk in the park but it didn't trigger my monkey as
• 28:28
  other. Oh, I see.
• 28:29
  OK, Yeah. Like as other loved ones, like
• 28:31
  if your issue is alcohol, it won't trigger me if I see
• 28:37
  alcohol, but if I see a bag of cocaine on the table I need to
• 28:41
  get the fuck out because I don't have that willpower.
• 28:46
  How did you ultimately get them help into treatment into like,
• 28:51
  what was the final? How did you do that?
• 28:53
  How did you bridge the gap? To be honest with you, with this
• 28:56
  one individual, God bless them, they were able to figure it out
• 29:02
  themselves. They had hit rock bottom and it
• 29:04
  was like, I'm going and I was like, good for you.
• 29:07
  I support it. It was, it was this person
• 29:11
  extremely insightful and very emotionally intelligent.
• 29:16
  And that's one thing that I actually was kind of envious
• 29:20
  about was because I didn't have that emotional intelligence to
• 29:24
  realize what I was doing was actually wrong.
• 29:26
  So they knew right away that I needed to get the help.
• 29:30
  They just, I think, needed all of us to come together and be
• 29:33
  like, we're here for you, which is actually, to be honest with
• 29:36
  you, quite admirable. I didn't have that.
• 29:39
  I had to completely hit rock bottom.
• 29:40
  Yeah. Bang your head a few times,
• 29:42
  right? I think, and a lot of people
• 29:45
  don't like hearing this because they want the answer, like I'm
• 29:47
  talking about loved ones. But to me it sounds like all you
• 29:50
  did was show up, right? And that that's more than
• 29:53
  enough. Like that's really all you have
• 29:54
  to do, but you also have to set boundaries where it's no, I'm
• 29:57
  not going to enable this. No, this is not like if this
• 30:01
  continues, we can't be friends or we can't live under the same
• 30:06
  roof or we can't. There's so many different.
• 30:08
  What? So yeah, what what does enabling
• 30:10
  look like versus support now? Is, I would say enabling is
• 30:16
  allowing the self deprecation and allowing the justifying.
• 30:21
  Well, this happened to me so This is why.
• 30:23
  OK, great. I agree it sucks that happened
• 30:25
  to you. So let's go to therapy and talk
• 30:28
  about it. We're not going to grab a bottle
• 30:30
  or we're not going to snort a line or we're not going to do
• 30:33
  this or we're not going to. Do that, yeah.
• 30:35
  And then to your point, it's like if they cross said
• 30:36
  boundary, it's like, you know, you got it.
• 30:38
  My wife had to get to a point where you're not following the
• 30:41
  rules in this house. They're very simple rules.
• 30:43
  They're not hard to follow, right?
• 30:44
  It was, you know, stay sober, attempt sobriety to some degree.
• 30:48
  And for me, it was like going to 12 step recovery because she
• 30:50
  knew that that worked for me before.
• 30:52
  I want to see you putting in the work, right?
• 30:54
  And she wasn't asking for a lot, but I couldn't, I couldn't keep
• 30:56
  up with it. So I couldn't do it because like
• 30:58
  I said that that river in the middle was just like, I couldn't
• 31:02
  crossover, right? It was like too hard for me at
• 31:04
  the time. I didn't want to even start.
• 31:07
  And so she, we went to therapy to your, to your point.
• 31:09
  And I remember sitting in my therapist's office, our, our
• 31:12
  marriage counselor, therapist, whatever you want to say.
• 31:14
  And like she was straight up just calling me out, right?
• 31:17
  Because she knew that I had, I could handle it.
• 31:19
  But also I, I had been in recovery before, so it wasn't a
• 31:22
  new concept to me. She's like, you're being a
• 31:23
  little boy. And I looked her in the eyes and
• 31:26
  I said, I know I agree with you. I can't stop though.
• 31:29
  Like I just can't fathom being sober right now because it's so
• 31:33
  hard. Like I said, she said, well, you
• 31:35
  know, and they can, you know, we're gonna, you're not
• 31:38
  following the rules of the house.
• 31:39
  Like I said, we're gonna have to kick you out, right.
• 31:42
  And Rebecca, this is Rebecca saying that to me.
• 31:44
  I'm gonna have and it was the hardest thing for her to do.
• 31:46
  She reminds me today. She's like, it was so hard for
• 31:47
  me to kick you out knowing that you had a a chance of dying out
• 31:51
  there, right? It was so hard.
• 31:53
  But ultimately she's like, I'm really happy I did it because it
• 31:55
  brought me to a new bottom and I waved the white flag a little
• 31:58
  bit earlier. 100% like one of one of my loved ones that was
• 32:02
  struggling, which I dabbled into speaking about it.
• 32:06
  It was one of my best friends. She was or they were a sorry
• 32:11
  they were a heavy drinker. And I remember I explained to
• 32:16
  this person, if you continue to do this, our friendship is done
• 32:20
  and for about a year and a half we didn't speak.
• 32:23
  Obviously they got sober and they became a significantly, I
• 32:29
  don't want to say better person, but they became who they were
• 32:31
  always meant to be. Now we are very close, but for a
• 32:36
  year and a half I said I cannot have this around me.
• 32:39
  And it was very challenging for me to cut off people that have
• 32:41
  been friends for so long. But as I was watching them self
• 32:44
  destruct, I was like, listen, you're not taking what I'm
• 32:47
  saying seriously. So maybe if I completely back it
• 32:51
  up and stay out of your life, maybe, just maybe, you'll
• 32:56
  comprehend and clue in. And it's funny because years
• 32:58
  down the road later, she still tells me you're the only one
• 33:01
  that never actually left. I said I was never leaving you.
• 33:05
  I was just on the sidelines watching you fall on your face
• 33:08
  because I couldn't be front and center watching it anymore.
• 33:11
  Yeah, yeah. And then, you know, but it's
• 33:14
  your point. It's like I'll always be here
• 33:15
  when you decide to get help, right?
• 33:17
  Soon, the minute my phone rings and you're saying I hey, I'm
• 33:20
  done. I I want some help.
• 33:21
  Like I'll be there for you. I'll be the first one to run.
• 33:26
  What's something today, Mary, that you're actively working on
• 33:29
  about yourself? Taking ownership for my shitty
• 33:33
  behaviors because don't get me wrong, even though I'm sober I
• 33:36
  still fuck up. Not in the substance part, but
• 33:39
  in just. The life part.
• 33:40
  Yes, exactly. And just taking ownership of my
• 33:45
  actions and like I give my husband full credit.
• 33:50
  I am sometimes not a pleasant person to deal with no honesty
• 33:55
  truly, truly. I'm not like I give him full,
• 33:57
  full credit. I'm not a sweetheart that you
• 34:00
  see right now. Sometimes I can be completely
• 34:03
  unhinged and I mean when I would get unhinged, I would resort
• 34:08
  back to drugs. Now obviously I can't especially
• 34:11
  I just can't do that now to my husband or to my daughter.
• 34:14
  It's not fair to the both of them.
• 34:15
  Like they didn't sign up for me to go back to my old ways.
• 34:18
  So it's every day is a challenge because every day I have to try
• 34:23
  and be a better person. And sometimes when that monkey
• 34:27
  tries to creep up. And so I just been like, listen,
• 34:29
  I feel like I want to use again. I'm so ashamed that I'm just
• 34:32
  like, fuck off, stop talking to me.
• 34:33
  And I'm like, Oh my God, I'm so sorry.
• 34:35
  I didn't actually mean to just lose my shit on you.
• 34:37
  Yeah. Saying, saying sorry, but then
• 34:40
  actually meaning it. So to me today, like making
• 34:43
  amends is very different than saying sorry, right?
• 34:45
  I was very good at the saris before.
• 34:47
  I've said a million of them. I practice it in the mirror a
• 34:49
  million times. Not actually, but I've, I've
• 34:51
  practiced it enough with people where I could say sorry to
• 34:54
  anybody, right? But I didn't, I would just do it
• 34:57
  again, you know. And so today, making amends,
• 34:59
  living men's is a big one for me too, where it's like I'm, you
• 35:03
  know, that. Let me think of an example.
• 35:05
  That person, I don't know, in that one time I was staying in a
• 35:11
  hotel and a very expensive one around here because I was a
• 35:14
  baller, right? And that's what put me in so
• 35:16
  much debt. You know, when I was when I was
• 35:18
  in my relapse, I was like, I'm going to go all out and I'm
• 35:20
  going to stay at the, I've never stayed at the, you know, fancy
• 35:23
  hotels in Toronto. So I'm going to do that.
• 35:25
  And I did it over Christmas, and it was horrible over New Year's
• 35:28
  and Christmas. And there was a guy there that,
• 35:31
  like, brings your stuff up to your room.
• 35:32
  I'm blanking on the name for that guy.
• 35:34
  Concierge, maybe. I don't know.
• 35:36
  Bellboy. Bellboy maybe.
• 35:37
  Yeah. But he was much more fancy than
• 35:39
  that. Anyways, he came up to my room
• 35:41
  and I was like, hey, man, you want to, like, drink?
• 35:43
  Because this is what I do. I bring people down.
• 35:45
  Right. And he's like, yeah, sure.
• 35:46
  And he came and sat down and, like, we had a few drinks, and
• 35:50
  he went back to work, like, after having a few drinks,
• 35:53
  Right. So something, you know, simple
• 35:55
  like that, where it's like I was, I can't really go back and
• 35:58
  make amends to that guy. And that seems like a small
• 36:00
  example. You know, I've, I've done a lot
• 36:01
  of worse than that. But it's like, like things like
• 36:04
  that that you would just never do.
• 36:05
  It's like put people in vulnerable situations to lose
• 36:07
  their job or, or bring people down with you.
• 36:10
  You know, maybe he was an alcoholic and I made him
• 36:12
  relapse, you know, anyways, you never know, right?
• 36:14
  So I can make a living amends to that today.
• 36:18
  And that's like, I'm not going to repeat those behaviors of
• 36:20
  bringing people down. You know, that's I've brought in
• 36:24
  a lot of people with me, whether it was with ketamine, you know,
• 36:27
  ketamine was a big one where I would always have it or cocaine
• 36:30
  like we were talking about before, or, or meth, you know, I
• 36:32
  had them in pills. I was always giving them to
• 36:35
  people. And like, you know, I don't have
• 36:37
  to bring people down with me today, right?
• 36:38
  I can live amends and, and live a sober life and make amends
• 36:43
  that way. I'm not repeating the behavior
• 36:45
  over and over again, you know? Yeah, that's.
• 36:50
  Actually, one of the hardest things to actually openly admit
• 36:53
  is like you were at fault. I'm wrong?
• 36:55
  Yeah, that's a that's a huge thing in recovery that I feel
• 36:59
  like not even just recovery, even just like mental health.
• 37:04
  I feel like, because again, I feel like everyone forgets,
• 37:07
  addiction to mental health actually come hand in hand and I
• 37:11
  feel like everyone forgets that usually.
• 37:15
  I mean, I can't speak on you, but I feel like the majority of
• 37:18
  people that I've walked and the loved ones that I know that I've
• 37:22
  suffered is it was either some sort of anxiety or depression
• 37:25
  and they couldn't handle it. So instead of owning it insane,
• 37:28
  I'm depressed or I'm anxious. It was let me take the bottle or
• 37:32
  let me take this pill or let me do this or let me do that
• 37:35
  because at least then they were numbing the pain rather than
• 37:38
  actually being like, I'm depressed because it's a lot
• 37:40
  harder to take ownership of your actions rather than.
• 37:46
  Isn't that crazy, though, that it's like, it's so much easier
• 37:49
  to go out and go on a Bender than it is to just say, hey, I
• 37:53
  need help and I and then to do the work to fix it.
• 37:56
  Right. Just blows my mind.
• 37:58
  But yeah, I mean, I, I, yeah, like looking back, it's like,
• 38:02
  yeah, that's that's all I was good at doing was just the quick
• 38:04
  fix the Band-Aid, right? I won everything yesterday.
• 38:07
  Something that I'm working on today is greed, like a big
• 38:12
  character defect of mine is greed, right?
• 38:14
  And then like this kind of ungratefulness, like anger,
• 38:17
  opposite of gratitude. I don't know, maybe anger where
• 38:20
  it's like I should be making more money, I should be doing
• 38:24
  this. And I kind of fall back into
• 38:25
  this. Why isn't my podcast blowing up
• 38:27
  more or my social media or you know what I mean?
• 38:30
  And it's like, that's something that I actively have to work on
• 38:32
  tonight. I, I do this thing where I wake
• 38:35
  up in the morning and I pray about it and I talk to like
• 38:38
  whatever universe higher power that I have.
• 38:40
  And it's like, just help me be myself today, Help me be
• 38:44
  authentic, help me be the man I'm was meant to be.
• 38:47
  And then help me work on like my character defects.
• 38:49
  I call them these things that I'm actively working on.
• 38:52
  That's just a big one for me today.
• 38:53
  And it's not easy, right? Like, I fall back into it a lot
• 38:56
  because instead of drugs, we pick up these character defects
• 38:59
  a lot where it's like to heal your pain, you know, snapping on
• 39:02
  someone at the grocery store is kind of like a coping mechanism,
• 39:05
  right? And it it just comes out
• 39:06
  sideways, you know? I literally, it's funny, I have
• 39:09
  to go back to anger management because I'm realizing as my
• 39:13
  daughter has healed a bunch of wounds, but he's opened up a lot
• 39:16
  of wounds and I'm realizing that I'm a very fucking angry person
• 39:21
  and I need to really control my anger.
• 39:24
  I mean, I don't take it out on my husband, which sometimes I
• 39:28
  do, but for the majority part, I don't.
• 39:29
  I take it out on my dad and my sister.
• 39:31
  They get the, they get it all the time.
• 39:38
  My mom doesn't get it as much actually, but I give it to my
• 39:41
  dad and my sister. And I feel really awful saying
• 39:45
  that. But the longest time they were
• 39:47
  all I had and they're the only ones that never left me.
• 39:50
  So Even so, now's this day when my mom upsets me because let's
• 39:54
  face it, parents will always upset you.
• 39:56
  I take it out on them. And instead of me being like,
• 39:59
  you know what sheeps at me, I need to just sit with the
• 40:03
  emotion. I'm like, well, fuck you, dad,
• 40:05
  fuck you, Nicole. I'm not at the both of you,
• 40:08
  Papa. How dare you let her speak to me
• 40:10
  that way. And it's like, but Mary, we
• 40:11
  can't control what she says and what she does.
• 40:15
  Only you can control how you react.
• 40:16
  I'm like, well, and then I get so like defensive and angry.
• 40:20
  And it's funny because I'm starting to realize like.
• 40:24
  I'm not using but my behavior is just as bad as if I was using if
• 40:32
  that. Makes sense.
• 40:33
  Yeah. Recovery is not just stopping
• 40:34
  drinking and drugs, right. It's no, there's a whole, you
• 40:37
  know, litany of things that we have to do because if, you know,
• 40:43
  people might think to themselves like, well, what's the big deal
• 40:46
  if I'm losing my mind on people or like, at least I'm not using
• 40:49
  drugs, right? And it's I think a lot of people
• 40:52
  failed to make the connection between my.
• 40:54
  Line when I was younger was at least I'm not using it my dad
• 40:56
  like OK, but you're shin on us for literally asking if you want
• 40:59
  cheese on your burger. Yeah, I was like.
• 41:01
  Right, You're, you're terrible to be around, right?
• 41:03
  It's like we, we are, we're on egg shells around you.
• 41:05
  But people don't, I think a lot of people don't make the
• 41:07
  connection that if I'm continuing that behavior, I'm
• 41:10
  going to be using drugs in no time because I don't, I don't
• 41:13
  like being a bad person. I don't like pissing people off.
• 41:16
  I don't like, and then people are going to stop coming around
• 41:17
  me. You know, I'm going to be the
• 41:19
  last person to know that I'm an asshole, which is like the word.
• 41:21
  I don't know if you've ever been in that situation where you're
• 41:23
  like the last person to know that you're an asshole.
• 41:25
  I really had no idea. I'm like what Or you're?
• 41:28
  Being an asshole. Sorry, yeah.
• 41:31
  I'm a prick. They're like, yeah, you don't
• 41:32
  realize I was like or the whole like, we can't tell you things
• 41:37
  because you got so angry make about you.
• 41:39
  And I'm like, first of all, that was hard to swallow because I
• 41:43
  was like, excuse you, what the hell you're saying.
• 41:45
  And then I got defensive and I realized, Oh my God, look at how
• 41:48
  you're acting. No wonder why people are saying
• 41:50
  that. And then it was, it was, I don't
• 41:52
  want to say funny, but funny to say that when I got clean, me
• 41:59
  having to deal with my suicidal ideologies became even more
• 42:02
  real. To the point where once I got
• 42:06
  clean, I still ended up going back in the psych ward because I
• 42:09
  realized I was never actually dealing with my situations.
• 42:12
  I was just bandying it with drugs.
• 42:15
  And then once I got clean, I realized I'm still depressed.
• 42:21
  I'm still suicidal. So obviously doing drugs was
• 42:28
  just a Band-Aid and although it made me feel good, it didn't
• 42:31
  actually. I still struggle everyday with
• 42:34
  suicide ideologies. And there's no moments where I
• 42:37
  said to my husband, like, I don't think I can do this
• 42:39
  anymore. And he was like, I understand.
• 42:43
  I mean, not fully, but I mean, I can understand where you're
• 42:46
  coming from. And he's been very supportive of
• 42:49
  like, So what should we do? I was like, can we go for a walk
• 42:53
  and grab some ice cream? Although it's not a quick fix,
• 42:55
  it's a little distraction to get my mind off of how suicidal I
• 43:01
  really. Truly am so I got so dark for a
• 43:03
  second. No, no, it's a depression.
• 43:04
  I I don't think we talk. You know, when I started this
• 43:06
  podcast, I wanted to do addiction mainly, but I also
• 43:08
  wanted to bring in other mental health.
• 43:10
  And one of the reasons I, you know, wanted to have you on here
• 43:12
  is like depression is a real thing that for a lot of people
• 43:15
  that don't struggle with drugs and alcohol.
• 43:16
  You take away the drugs and alcohol now it's like boom,
• 43:19
  depression amplified times 1000 every day.
• 43:22
  So how do I deal with it? Right.
• 43:25
  How do you deal with it? You talk about going for ice
• 43:26
  cream, distracting yourself. And I know that it might sound
• 43:29
  very well. What the fuck?
• 43:30
  Like you're listening to this and you're like, the fuck is
• 43:32
  going for ice cream you're going to do.
• 43:33
  But you know what it's like. You'd be surprised that just
• 43:35
  like a little bit of distraction I can fully understand.
• 43:38
  Yeah, like or or this need for routine.
• 43:42
  Like it's funny because I make fun of all these Wellness
• 43:44
  creators for like, oh, tab your Masha in the morning and do this
• 43:48
  and do that. I'm like listen as much as I'm
• 43:51
  shit on them and make fun of them, there is some truth.
• 43:54
  Like you need routine. Like I'm sure you learned in
• 43:57
  rehab, routine and structure is very important.
• 44:01
  But like routine and structure doesn't mean having a fucking
• 44:03
  matcha and chia seeds. It means going outside for a
• 44:06
  walk, getting 8 hours of sleep, showering, making your bed,
• 44:11
  keeping your space clean. Like who would have thought?
• 44:13
  Like the basics that they teach you in kindergarten are actually
• 44:17
  like skills that you need to survive.
• 44:20
  And that's something that I feel like people forget is like once
• 44:22
  you get clean and sober, you're not done.
• 44:26
  There's still so much more to do, like having to wake up every
• 44:29
  day and doing a simple task. Like every morning I wake up and
• 44:33
  I make my bed. People are like that is like.
• 44:38
  What's the big deal? Yeah.
• 44:40
  And it's like when you come home from a shitty day and at least
• 44:43
  your environment's clean, you're like, Oh my God.
• 44:46
  Because like, look, there's days where I come home and like,
• 44:50
  don't get me wrong. Like I am fed up with the world.
• 44:52
  But then I look at my house and I'm like, OK, it's clean.
• 44:55
  One less thing for me to like. Snap about at least something is
• 44:58
  in order, right? The the world doesn't make
• 45:00
  sense, but my house makes sense. Exactly.
• 45:02
  Something is in order. Exactly or or this whole need
• 45:06
  for routine, like as much as it's really been like wake up at
• 45:12
  5:00 AM, brush your teeth, go to Pilates, go to this, go to that.
• 45:16
  As much as I make fun of it, there is also some deep down
• 45:19
  truth to having routine and structure.
• 45:22
  I'm not saying wake up and go to a reformer Pilates or do me and
• 45:27
  run 1015 KA day. But if you have some kind of
• 45:30
  structure and routine, at least when that monkey comes, whether
• 45:34
  it's addiction or depression, you're like, you know what?
• 45:38
  I have a routine I need to stick by.
• 45:39
  And this is one thing that I feel like there's this
• 45:42
  misconception where like when you have depression, it's hard
• 45:47
  to take care of somebody else when you can't take care of
• 45:49
  yourself. And yes and no, because like, I
• 45:54
  was in the psychiatric ward at a young age.
• 45:57
  My first admission was I was 13 to 14.
• 46:00
  There was a nurse slash teacher Teresa.
• 46:04
  She's literally why I graduated. Let me tell you something.
• 46:07
  Teresa would knock on my door saying you got chemistry to
• 46:09
  finish, let's get up, let's go. And the reason was because when
• 46:13
  you were in there for a month, the world doesn't stop just
• 46:16
  because you're in rehab or you're in the psych ward.
• 46:19
  So it was very crazy to see how I still have to get my shit
• 46:22
  together for school because when I got out of the psych ward, I
• 46:26
  had to go back to school. The assignments were still
• 46:28
  piling up, the the tests were still coming.
• 46:31
  So if I came out with nothing done, do you know how much more
• 46:35
  anxiety provoking, how much more stressful that would have been?
• 46:38
  Yeah. You're behind on life.
• 46:39
  Right, exactly. So it's crazy to see how we live
• 46:44
  in this world where it's like you're depressed.
• 46:47
  That's OK, Sit down in your bed for five days.
• 46:51
  I am so sorry. I don't know any psychiatric or
• 46:53
  the suit to sit in your bed for five days.
• 46:54
  You're like, get your ass up and do what you got to do.
• 46:56
  Because guess what? Your world outside is still
• 46:59
  moving and eventually you're going to get back out there.
• 47:01
  And if you get back out there and you're not ready, you're
• 47:04
  coming right back in. And trust me, you don't want to
• 47:07
  go back in. And it's going to be worse, too.
• 47:08
  Exactly. Because you're more behind.
• 47:10
  Exactly like she used to knock on my door.
• 47:13
  Mary, we got chemistry. I'm like, but I don't want to.
• 47:16
  OK, fantastic. Let's go.
• 47:19
  Like it was very much like, I don't want to shower.
• 47:22
  OK, well, you smell, So what are you going to do?
• 47:26
  It was very like, you don't want to do it.
• 47:30
  Woo Hoo. Get in line.
• 47:32
  Yeah, no one wants to do it. Yeah, and then and then, oddly
• 47:36
  enough, is when you end up feeling better.
• 47:39
  You're like, man, am I glad I at least did the bare minimum.
• 47:43
  So I when I got back out into the world, at least my ducks
• 47:47
  were in a row. They weren't just scattered
• 47:49
  everywhere. You know, it's a there's a lot
• 47:51
  of good stuff there routine, being regimented.
• 47:55
  One thing I liked and you know, IA big part of my life.
• 47:59
  I used to run marathons too, and long distances when I was
• 48:04
  training for those, I found a lot of motivation in like David
• 48:08
  Goggins. He's a, you know, Navy SEAL guy
• 48:10
  that my. Husband's obsessed.
• 48:11
  He's great. Obsessed.
• 48:12
  He read his books. Yeah, he.
• 48:14
  He tries to make me run without headphones.
• 48:16
  I'm like you've. Lost.
• 48:17
  I do that. Yeah, No, no, no, no, no.
• 48:19
  Because I get stuck in my thoughts.
• 48:20
  No, no, I need my music on. No, I can't do it.
• 48:22
  I love. It he used to talk about, he
• 48:24
  used to always say like, like and sure, you know, say what you
• 48:26
  want about him from a mental health perspective.
• 48:28
  A lot of people criticize him for not whatever, I don't care.
• 48:30
  It helps me. He used to say like nobody is
• 48:34
  coming to save you. No ones coming to save you,
• 48:37
  right? Sure.
• 48:38
  It sounds harsh, but it's true. Like I'm, you know, I'm going
• 48:41
  through something right now. Sure, my mom can and my wife can
• 48:44
  show up all they want, right? And be like, it's OK, honey, you
• 48:46
  know it's going to be OK. But at the end of the day,
• 48:49
  they're not going to pull me out of bed and get me to go to work
• 48:51
  or to go to the gym. It's like they have to.
• 48:54
  Yeah, that too, right? I don't want them doing that.
• 48:56
  Exactly. It's like I have to come to a
• 48:57
  point where it's like, listen, buddy, like it's you and me and
• 49:01
  that's it. You know, you can choose your
• 49:02
  two options. You can choose to suffer.
• 49:05
  You know, pain is inevitable. Suffering is optional.
• 49:06
  I love that one. It's like you can pain's gonna
• 49:09
  happen no matter what. I'm gonna walk out of here
• 49:10
  today. Something bad's gonna happen for
• 49:12
  the rest of the day. And it's how I react that that,
• 49:14
  you know, I can choose to sit in it.
• 49:15
  Suffering is like, Oh my God, I can't believe that thing
• 49:18
  happened to me. Well, you know, poor me, my life
• 49:20
  sucks. How am I gonna get through this?
• 49:21
  Oh, my God. Like, you know, I'm gonna do
• 49:24
  nothing, blah, blah, blah, blah. All this shit in my head.
• 49:26
  It's up to me to to react to it, right?
• 49:31
  I want to talk about like, you know, so nine years is a long
• 49:34
  time. Can you talk about, you know,
• 49:38
  some tough times where maybe you know, you were close to relapse
• 49:44
  or did you ever have any moments like that where it's like you
• 49:48
  came close or like you really struggled, whereas like you
• 49:50
  almost picked up or or drank or. Yes, COVID.
• 49:54
  Yeah, yeah, I got through COVID sober too.
• 49:56
  Actually, I was completely sober through COVID.
• 49:58
  COVID, it was comical. I could meet you in aisle 3 at
• 50:02
  Loblaws, but I couldn't go for therapy because it just at that
• 50:07
  time it wasn't yet ready for virtual because of how quickly
• 50:10
  COVID hit. So I thought it was comical that
• 50:13
  the marijuana store underneath my condo was open, the LCBO was
• 50:19
  open, but I couldn't go. To group or the gym.
• 50:24
  Yeah, I couldn't do some. I couldn't do things that made
• 50:27
  me feel good. But if I want to go downstairs
• 50:28
  and smoke a joint, no problem. But if I want to go to a
• 50:32
  meeting. No, yeah.
• 50:35
  None. That was COVID for I think a lot
• 50:39
  of people who even weren't addicts.
• 50:42
  But I'm dabbled in alcohol or marijuana or whatever.
• 50:45
  I feel like COVID really amplified because all I would do
• 50:48
  was set home and drink or smoke weed.
• 50:50
  There was nothing else to do. And the second time was being
• 50:55
  pregnant. Pregnancy sucked for me,
• 50:59
  honestly. I had prenatal depression.
• 51:00
  Obviously I couldn't partake in it because I was pregnant.
• 51:05
  And during COVID, I couldn't partake in it because there was
• 51:09
  so much societal pressure, because growing up European,
• 51:15
  you're doing so well. If I let that monkey win, it
• 51:19
  would have been a whole situation.
• 51:20
  So I allowed, oddly enough, was I allowed pressure to keep me
• 51:25
  sober and I allowed being pregnant to keep me sober
• 51:30
  because obviously there was no way I was going to fuck that one
• 51:34
  up. So there were two times where my
• 51:38
  depression got really bad. And again, it was always for me,
• 51:42
  I use a lot of the times because of my mental health issues.
• 51:45
  It wasn't even when I was raving, I was raving to chase
• 51:49
  something away. Everything was always to chase
• 51:52
  the feelings that I was having or to get rid of whatever was
• 51:57
  going on at the time, whether that had been my psychotic
• 52:02
  episodes or whether I that had been any form of my psychiatric
• 52:09
  issues that would have come up. I didn't want to deal with them.
• 52:13
  So I was like, take drugs, because if you take drugs, those
• 52:17
  psychiatric issues seem to just decrease.
• 52:19
  Yeah, it's almost like I always say it's like the volume button,
• 52:22
  right? Drugs and alcohol for me, it was
• 52:23
  like it just turned down the volume in my head for a moment,
• 52:27
  you know where it was. Like, you know, nothing
• 52:31
  mattered, right? Yesterday didn't matter.
• 52:33
  Tomorrow doesn't matter. I don't care.
• 52:34
  I'm living right now. This is fun, right?
• 52:37
  Or this feeling for some reason you forget that like I was just
• 52:41
  crying for two hours. I want to end my life now.
• 52:43
  I'm like, oh, I'm a high. This is great.
• 52:46
  But then the come down is a fucking nightmare.
• 52:51
  And then God forbid we do with the come down.
• 52:52
  So what we keep doing? Yeah, that cycle, right.
• 52:55
  I know it'll fix this. And then, yeah, I mean, that is
• 52:57
  drug use, you know, in a in a nutshell, right.
• 53:00
  Essentially, it's like the circle, you know, the monkey
• 53:02
  wheel. As you I mentioned, I wanted to,
• 53:05
  I, I was thinking about this as you were talking to because
• 53:08
  we're alike in that alcohol wasn't our main thing, right?
• 53:11
  I, I was the same way where it's like alcohol for me.
• 53:14
  It's like I just when I would have it, it was like I could not
• 53:18
  stop thinking about what was next, whether it be benzos, you
• 53:20
  know, cocaine, anything. I was like, oh boy, like, let's
• 53:23
  go. It started the kind of engine,
• 53:25
  right. So I, I consider myself an
• 53:27
  alcoholic today. How did you come in?
• 53:30
  A lot of people struggle with this.
• 53:31
  I find I was able to admit this was me too in 23 at 23.
• 53:35
  Yeah, I'm a drug addict. The all the evidence is there.
• 53:38
  I I get it. Yep.
• 53:39
  Drug addict. Check.
• 53:39
  I get it. Stop using cocaine.
• 53:41
  OK, I'm in right. I that was ruining my life.
• 53:44
  I'm not an alcoholic though, right?
• 53:47
  I could probably have one drink. How did you how did you deal
• 53:50
  with that? That how did you come to a
• 53:52
  realization where you realized that all mood and mind altering
• 53:55
  substances were the same and that you were going to stay away
• 53:57
  from alcohol? That was actually quite easy
• 54:00
  because when I was drinking the next day, I felt like a bag of
• 54:05
  shit. So I was like, Oh my God, this
• 54:09
  is the same feeling I have when I was doing drugs.
• 54:12
  So it's funny, when I got clean, I was still drinking wine here
• 54:15
  and there with my friends because to me, I can have a
• 54:19
  glass of wine and not have a glass of wine for three years.
• 54:22
  Like alcohol was never and like still not to this day.
• 54:25
  Mind you, I don't drink, but I mean, if I were to partake in a
• 54:29
  glass, I could have one glass and then I'm done because for
• 54:36
  some reason I never got that high from alcohol.
• 54:41
  So therefore, because I never got what I wanted to meet
• 54:44
  alcohol was just to be social, I would have a glass of wine.
• 54:48
  So I'm a very lightweight when it comes to alcohol, not to
• 54:51
  drugs. When it comes out, I'm a very
• 54:52
  lightweight. I would have one glass of wine.
• 54:55
  I was feeling tipsy. The next morning I was
• 54:58
  completely depressed. I was like what the fuck am I
• 55:00
  doing? I was like, Mary, this is
• 55:02
  exactly like drugs. That was probably triggering too
• 55:06
  I bet. Right?
• 55:07
  Like those feelings would trigger you to want to use
• 55:08
  drugs. Interesting.
• 55:10
  It was yeah, it was very weird because like though for me out
• 55:13
  so funny enough is a lot of my loved ones that are in recovery,
• 55:19
  all of their, I don't want to say their substance issues.
• 55:23
  That's so wrong to say, but all of their monkeys were alcohol.
• 55:27
  So I could be around that and it never bothered me because to me
• 55:32
  I didn't like alcohol. I didn't like the taste of it.
• 55:34
  I don't know what it was actually.
• 55:38
  I do know what it was. I have an underlining eating
• 55:44
  disorder so or had or have or. I don't know how the fuck you
• 55:47
  want to describe it but alcohol was calories.
• 55:53
  Very stupid mentality for me to think, but alcohol was calories
• 55:57
  so drinking alcohol was. Like eating a cheeseburger.
• 56:03
  And then because I would be drunk, I would be hungry that I
• 56:07
  would want a cheeseburger. So I would end up the next day
• 56:12
  feeling like a bloated bag of shit, which then made me spiral
• 56:17
  down to Oh my God, I had one glass of wine, had 20 chicken
• 56:22
  Nuggets. Now I feel like complete ass
• 56:25
  physically. I'm mentally depressed.
• 56:27
  I was like, this is not, this is not for me at all.
• 56:31
  So it was easy for me to just be like alcohol.
• 56:34
  No. So it's funny, like if there was
• 56:37
  alcohol around us today, yeah, I could care less.
• 56:41
  So even in social situations you did you have problems with that
• 56:44
  where it's like, cuz I know for me in the beginning, it's like I
• 56:48
  feel like I everyone's looking at me.
• 56:49
  People are noticing I'm not drinking when in, in retrospect,
• 56:52
  in hindsight, nobody gives a fuck, right?
• 56:54
  They're too busy thinking about themselves and worried about
• 56:56
  their own drinking. Or if people came up to me and
• 56:59
  said, hey, why aren't you drinking?
• 57:00
  That's kind of weird. It's usually because they had a
• 57:02
  problem with it or simply it was their problem.
• 57:05
  Yeah, yeah, yeah. So was that was that tough for
• 57:07
  you or is it tough for you today?
• 57:09
  To be honest with you, no, it it was tough for me to get back out
• 57:16
  into the rave scene and be sober.
• 57:19
  Drinking alcohol wasn't because I never really drank.
• 57:23
  So Mary not drinking. Big fucking deal.
• 57:28
  It's Mary not drinking. It was never that.
• 57:31
  It was never that itch for me. But going back to thinking
• 57:34
  people give a shit about you, it's funny because we all think
• 57:37
  we're the main characters. I can tell you right now I was
• 57:41
  doing cartwheels for shits and giggles in the Athens airport to
• 57:44
  calm down my daughter. This past week.
• 57:47
  Yeah, yeah, literally like a few days ago.
• 57:49
  I can tell you something. Nobody, Gee, they nobody looked
• 57:54
  at me. Nothing.
• 57:55
  It calmed down my daughter. But I can.
• 57:57
  I'm sure you like maybe someone looked at me but like I don't
• 58:01
  give a fuck. Like it's crazy how we're like,
• 58:03
  Oh my God, people are watching me.
• 58:06
  Like I'm so sorry. Like I'm sorry.
• 58:09
  Like unless you're like Joe Burrow or like I'm sorry, like
• 58:12
  Tom Brady, like no one's looking.
• 58:15
  I'm so sorry. No one is looking at you.
• 58:20
  I can assure you, I can assure you, like people are so consumed
• 58:26
  with are people looking at me that they don't even notice What
• 58:30
  the hell are you doing? Yeah.
• 58:31
  Exactly, That's great. I just pictured you doing
• 58:35
  cartwheels in the airport. Do you have a video of it?
• 58:37
  No, actually. I should have, you know what,
• 58:39
  actually we're travelling in a few weeks with my daughter and
• 58:44
  my husband. So I will actually do cartwheels
• 58:46
  on purpose so that way people can see like nobody gives a
• 58:50
  shit. People are so consumed with
• 58:52
  their own lives that nobody cares.
• 58:54
  And that's the problem is I feel like everyone's like, oh,
• 58:57
  they're watching me. Listen, if you're that because
• 59:00
  you're about people watching you put a fucking soda in your hand,
• 59:04
  put a lime in or a lemon. And just because I know also a
• 59:08
  lot of people are very uncomfortable with sharing, I
• 59:12
  can't drink or I can't that and like, I respect that.
• 59:14
  I completely respect that. So if you don't want to deal
• 59:18
  with that situation, put a soda water in your hand, put a lime
• 59:26
  in it, and no, I'm gonna know the difference, I can tell you.
• 59:28
  That's what I do and because I enjoy soda water but also it
• 59:31
  just eliminates any. Any.
• 59:33
  Questions and it just makes my life easier.
• 59:34
  Yeah, exactly like. And I'm hydrated.
• 59:36
  Yeah, exactly. Like, yeah, or, or like they'll
• 59:40
  go to the bar and be like, can I have a Coke and then with the
• 59:42
  Coke and put a lime in there. People think you're drinking rum
• 59:47
  and Coke. Not that I support that
• 59:49
  illusion, but I also respect people not feeling secure.
• 59:54
  So if you don't feel secure, I respect that.
• 59:57
  I'm nobody to be like, no you whatever.
• 1:00:00
  Do what you got to do to get through that social event.
• 1:00:02
  And I know some people might disagree.
• 1:00:05
  Like I know for a lot of people they say like don't even drink
• 1:00:11
  non alcoholic beer. I have a lot of loved ones that
• 1:00:16
  were Alcoholics but they love the taste of beer, not alcohol.
• 1:00:21
  So they literally drink non alcoholic beer all the time.
• 1:00:26
  OK cool. They'll literally show up at
• 1:00:29
  parties with their own 6 pack of non alcoholic beer.
• 1:00:34
  Amazing. Like do whatever makes you feel
• 1:00:39
  comfortable. And that's why I get so upset
• 1:00:40
  with rehab. But not just rehab, just that
• 1:00:43
  whole bubble. It's like, well, you cannot go
• 1:00:47
  to a bar when you're 3 months sober, no.
• 1:00:50
  If you have the willpower to sit there and drink a Coke with no
• 1:00:54
  rum and you can hang out with your boys or your girls, why
• 1:00:58
  not? And you have the exit plan, the
• 1:01:00
  support system in place. Exactly when we I find that when
• 1:01:04
  we shelter the attic too much, we're actually doing more harm
• 1:01:09
  than good. Like I respect the whole don't
• 1:01:12
  drink a non alcoholic beer but if the person is drinking non
• 1:01:15
  alcoholic beer over and over and over again and it doesn't faze
• 1:01:19
  them, it actually makes them more comfortable Because I know
• 1:01:22
  a lot of loved ones where they drink because of their social
• 1:01:25
  anxiety. So if they have a non alcoholic
• 1:01:28
  beer in their hand, no one's going.
• 1:01:31
  To say shit. And also too, if you're at a
• 1:01:32
  point where that non alcoholic Jesus that non alcoholic beer is
• 1:01:37
  saving you from shooting heroin in the bathroom, fucking more
• 1:01:40
  power to you buddy. Like you know what I mean?
• 1:01:43
  And like, yeah, like and like, OK.
• 1:01:45
  Or like when people leave rehab and like, well, they're smoking
• 1:01:49
  cigarettes. I'd rather me smoking a fucking
• 1:01:51
  pack a day. Like, not that I condone lung
• 1:01:55
  cancer. Like, like, that's not what I'm
• 1:01:58
  saying. But I'm also saying like.
• 1:02:02
  One thing at a time. Yeah, exactly.
• 1:02:05
  Every time I left rehab I was smoking and I quit all three
• 1:02:08
  times, you know what I mean? Like it's, I'm okay.
• 1:02:10
  Hopefully we'll see, yeah. I hate smoking now.
• 1:02:13
  Yeah, like, okay, every time you're in the psychiatric ward,
• 1:02:17
  I can tell you this, I picked up smoking all the time.
• 1:02:20
  Once I left the psych ward, I stopped smoking because again,
• 1:02:23
  it was a social thing to do when you were dealing with a bunch of
• 1:02:27
  shit. And it's not like you could do
• 1:02:28
  much in the psych ward. So I mean, you would go for
• 1:02:30
  walks and what'd you do? Hit your vape or have a
• 1:02:34
  cigarette? It was just.
• 1:02:35
  Something to. Do yeah, it was just something
• 1:02:37
  to do and like yes, you're still feeding the addiction, but like
• 1:02:40
  I'm sorry, I'd rather than nick an addiction than the heroin
• 1:02:43
  addiction if I'm being totally. Transparent.
• 1:02:45
  That's great, I want to end with this.
• 1:02:50
  If you could say something merry to someone suffering with
• 1:02:53
  depression or suicidal ideations, what would you say?
• 1:03:00
  Fuck. Oof, that's a hard one.
• 1:03:03
  OK, I'm going to try not to tear up crap.
• 1:03:06
  OK, Your mind is very good at playing tricks, don't let it
• 1:03:15
  win. I'm telling you right now, you
• 1:03:17
  are worth so much more alive than dead, and I would much
• 1:03:22
  rather hear your story than hear it at your funeral if I'm being
• 1:03:25
  completely transparent with you. So I'm sorry, I'm trying not to
• 1:03:30
  cry. Just know that it's your mind
• 1:03:33
  playing tricks on you. I'm telling you this for a fact.
• 1:03:37
  We all need you here. We all want you here.
• 1:03:40
  This is just that fucking monkey telling you that the world is
• 1:03:44
  better off without you, and the world is not better off without
• 1:03:47
  you. The world is a far more shittier
• 1:03:48
  place with you not in it. Sorry, I tried to cry.
• 1:03:52
  That's. Beautiful.
• 1:03:54
  Thank you. Thanks so much for coming down,
• 1:03:57
  Mary. I appreciate you.
• 1:03:58
  Thank you. Thanks for listening.
• 1:04:00
  Please help us grow the channel and like, share and subscribe
• 1:04:04
  for more content. The discussions and stories
• 1:04:06
  shared on this podcast are for informational and motivational
• 1:04:09
  purposes only. This content is not a substitute
• 1:04:12
  for professional medical advice, addiction treatment, or therapy.
• 1:04:16
  If you or someone you know is struggling with addiction,
• 1:04:19
  please consult A licensed physician, addiction specialist,
• 1:04:22
  or mental health professional. You are no longer alone.