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The Invisible Work of Content Marketing · Content, Briefly

• 0:00
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• 0:54
  Hey, everyone, it's Chloe and Eric here for another episode of Content Briefly. To be clear, this is Eric speaking. Hello, Chloe. [chuckles] Hey, Eric. So Jimmy is away this week.
• 1:05
  He's frolicking on the beach with his family, and so a-as is typical when Jimmy's [chuckles] away, we pick, like, a really heavy subject matter. We just like to play with fire. Yeah, exactly.
• 1:16
  [chuckles] Like, every time the parents are away, we're like, "Let's talk about adult topics."
• 1:20
  So today we wanted to talk about all the invisible work that content marketers do and the challenge of getting attribution for our work, so not in the sense of last-click attribution, but getting credit where credit is due, typically internally at the companies we work for.
• 1:36
  This could also be true for freelancers, I guess, who are working for clients.
• 1:40
  But the episode today was born from a community member who actually reached out to us anonymously and said that their team had just gone through this big
• 1:48
  sort of annual planning session where everyone but the content team was given credit for the company's success. I'm actually gonna read an excerpt. Chloe, I didn't tell you I was gonna do this, but...
• 1:58
  So they said, "This sort of thing has been part of the job since the very beginning of my career.
• 2:03
  It used to be easier to accept being more behind the scenes, but now that marketing is under such immense pressure and content's getting more scrutinized, maybe it's time to stop letting others take credit for our work."
• 2:13
  I thought that was, like, a really good way to summarize theme. Little dramatic. I love it. Yeah. So for today's episode, we wanna chat about this sort of general sentiment of not getting credit for the work we do.
• 2:26
  Then I also wanna walk through some examples of I, I feel like content marketers normally end up accumulating other non-content work that tends to go unseen, or because it's not in their job description, we don't necessarily get the credit for it.
• 2:41
  And then finally, and sort of most importantly, how to make yourself more visible in your organization, how to make sure you do get credit where credit is due.
• 2:51
  And we don't want this to be, like, a venting session that said all, all content marketers deserve more credit, but I think this is a really common sentiment and feeling that content marketers have that we wanna bring light to and give you some strategies for getting past that feeling.
• 3:05
  How did I do? I wrote an intro. This might be the first time I've ever written something down to read for the podca- I think, I think I did great. Thank you. I thought that was a brilliant intro. Set us up nicely.
• 3:17
  You know, when I first saw this kind of pseudo request come in, it made me think of something kind of earlier-ish on in my career when a very, very senior sales leader pulled me aside one day and he was like, "Hey, I wanna talk to you about something."
• 3:33
  And I was like, "Okay, [chuckles] what did we do now?" And he was like, "You know, your team has just been doing really great work.
• 3:40
  You've been bringing us great case studies and our blog, and you've been really working with my team a lot. We're doing really well revenue-wise.
• 3:49
  Do we need to work out some sort of, like, commission structure for, like, the content team?" You know, because other marketing team members got some kind of bonus, right, when sales hits their numbers.
• 4:00
  And it was a moment of being really flattered and taken aback, and then kinda being like, "I don't know how that would work," because in theory, content fuels marketing, so I think that that's where that sort of, like, bonus or commission structure and how do we thank our people is really challenging.
• 4:20
  And I've been fortunate in, you know, the rest of my career to have been in a position where the bonus structure is more accurately distributed across the marketing team, but a lot of times I do feel like content can get left out of that.
• 4:34
  So it was a really eye-opening conversation, and I basically said, you know, "First of all, thank you for the recognition and the acknowledgement that we're doing things that your team appreciates."
• 4:44
  And then it launched into a conversation just about how maybe there was a need for more company-wide recognition and appreciation, and that maybe it didn't have to come in the form of, like, a monetary piece.
• 4:56
  But that really sparked the idea of just content throughout the business and evangelizing it. But really it brought me back, I think, to that moment.
• 5:05
  Yeah, it's this weird position we're in where we're responsible for the money that our company makes, but it's...
• 5:13
  Of all the people responsible for the money, it's hardest to draw the line between what content marketers do and the results.
• 5:21
  So you have, like, the inherent, like, attribution on a spreadsheet problem, but then so I don't blame sales leaders, other people in the company for having the sort of soft attribution challenge too.
• 5:35
  Yeah, and I think just thinking about how we, I wouldn't say solved this problem, but how we definitely helped was it had to come from the top down, and I was fortunate to work under CMOs that did understand, like, the value and the importance of content.
• 5:52
  But I will say there was a bit of education throughout the rest of the team to be like, "Hey, when you're talking about these events or this webinar, like, shout out to s- the member of the content team that helped you with the talk track," or, "Shout out to, you know, the blogs that served as the foundation," because we really saw it as one big engine, and, like, yeah, sometimes that meant that-A recap of the event meant that the shout-out list was 10 people long instead of six people long, but it made a difference just to see, you know, our names being splashed across in that way.
• 6:26
  But it really had to come from the top down, and it was a bit of an educational process.
• 6:30
  Yeah, I think you're probably in either one of two situations as a content marketer in that, I mean, there's only really two situations I've been in, where your leader gets it, and they're trying as much as possible to bring light to content marketing because they get the struggle.
• 6:46
  Like, I'm in that situation now at Dock. I'm really grateful for it. My leader understands the value of content.
• 6:51
  They're constantly, like, pumping my tires at town halls and things like that because they get it and they know that, like... 'Cause sales will get...
• 6:57
  Every time a deal comes through, the sales, our Slack channel goes off, the rep gets celebrated. Every month when the sales team get, hits quota, there's a big, you know, the confetti emojis.
• 7:08
  There's not really that moment for content marketing, you know, like, 'cause it's a trickle-down effect, right? Like, we look at the quarter and say, "Did content generate the pipeline it was supposed to generate?
• 7:18
  Yes, it did." Like, it's not the same as [laughs] It's, it's expected. Yeah. It's- It's expected, right? Yeah. It's assumed that if you write 1,000 blog posts that, over time, you'll just see those benefits.
• 7:31
  It'll happen. Yeah. Yeah. So it's not as sexy in that way, and it's more of, like, beating the drum every day than, like, ripping an amazing guitar solo. [laughs] It's kind of the, the way I think of it.
• 7:40
  So it makes sense why it, it's hard to get credit, and I think maybe that's a good transition too, to...
• 7:48
  I think one of the other things that happens to compound this problem is that content marketing, because of our skill set, we normally get swept up into, like, other work that isn't necessarily on our job description, so, like, that we have to "yes, and."
• 8:04
  What is a job description? Yeah. [laughs] I, I rewrote my job description, like, five times. [laughs] I know, right?
• 8:10
  But yeah, so you know, on the job description it says, you write blog posts, you do our LinkedIn, whatever the job is, but then we also get swept up into other things because we're good writers.
• 8:21
  We're typically good product marketers. Like, there's other stuff that happens, so- Mm... um, I asked the community, trying to tie in the Superpath Pro community more into this podcast.
• 8:32
  I asked them if they had- They did...
• 8:33
  examples of things, and so Lauren Singer in the community said, like from what I've seen with clients with smaller teams, the content people end up covering all kinds of comms that aren't, like, content, so product copy, PR.
• 8:49
  They end up doing a lot of the internal sales enablement. And, and they're normally the copy editor for everyone in the company. Like, I think the classic is, like, "Can I get a set of eyes on this?"
• 9:00
  And w- when you're working at a SAS company where, like, 95% of communication is happening through writing, that can really add up, and it sort of adds to your plate and adds to, whether it's the stress of the job or just, like, another thing on your calendar, so I think that was a really nice summary of the kinda things that pile up.
• 9:18
  I will say, though, it, yes, it's a pain, but it is good that you're being brought into those conversations because it is showing, you know, the value of you as an editor or a writer.
• 9:30
  So I do try to not get as frustrated by those because I think, like, the first step is being asked for a lot of things, and then the second step is saying, "I'm working on A, B, C, D, so I can't prioritize those, quote, unquote, 'quick eyes'", because the subtext is what you wrote probably needs an entire rewrite, right?
• 9:51
  Like, and then you say, "But can I get this to you in a day?" or, "Can I get this to you later in my day?"
• 9:58
  And really using that to reinforce kind of the other pieces of the puzzle that you're working on and that you're not just available as a go-to, like, copy editor and, you know, quick QA person.
• 10:11
  But I think it's, like, a step one and then a step two. I think it's a positive sign. For sure, yeah. It, it, it's nice to have a skill set that's valued. I was in a really unique situation once. I worked at a company.
• 10:21
  It was called GlobalMe. It got acquired by a company called Summa Linguae, and it was a localization translation company.
• 10:27
  And ironically, because it was, like, a language services type company, I was, I think, one of two native English speakers in, like, a 300- Mm... person company, and so I became the in-house editor f- for everything.
• 10:43
  Like, you know, sometimes even, like, a big proposal was being sent out, they just wanted... Like, you weren't...
• 10:49
  'Cause the, the in-house employees were typically, at first they were, you know, they spoke Portuguese or they spoke Japanese really well, and English was, like, they could communicate fine- Sure...
• 10:58
  in a business sense but maybe not, like, a polished marketing thing. And so that was, like, the extreme version of, "Can you take a look at this?"
• 11:05
  Where I was, like, the filter for almost everything in the company, and honestly, it became, like, a third of my job. That's interesting. Yeah, it makes sense, but yeah.
• 11:13
  At first I was, like, annoyed by it 'cause I, like, exactly like you said, it, it, it felt like it was outside of the scope of my job, but then I realized, like, how, how, like, privileged I am to be s- native speaker in the, like, default language of business and, you know, I just tried to flip my perspective on, like, I have this in-demand skill set that's needed in the organization, and, like, I'm happy to provide value in it where I can.
• 11:36
  Yeah. So I think what becomes challenging is when you then get challenged later on for, like, why are you prioritizing this and not the thing that I asked you to do, you know? I had that a few times.
• 11:46
  So, like, my example that I was gonna bring is I've often just been wrapped up into, like, HR, internal comms, like, company culture type activities, whether that's been, like, as a content marketer or a generalist marketer, but I find it's the same thing where peop- you know, say you're...
• 12:05
  I was at one company where, like, maybe the vibes weren't so good, and so there was this big push to do more internal events, like culture activities, things like that.
• 12:15
  It was, like, 200-person company.And yeah, and there, that's where, like, the internal comms skill set was really needed, like trying to get people hyped doing that, like, internal marketing and but after a while, I got kind of called out by my boss, who was like, "Ah, you're spending too much time on this.
• 12:32
  Like, you know, your j- job is really to be driving business for the company." Right. And so you're being pulled in a few different directions.
• 12:38
  So I think that's a common experience for marketers and even content marketers. Yeah, I agree with you. Definitely the internal comms piece and the... Yeah. Yeah, I've seen that, too.
• 12:50
  And then I think, like, another interesting thing is, like, you often end up getting pulled kind of upstream into bigger product strategy challenges. Dana Cass mentioned this in our community.
• 13:01
  She said like, "How many times have you been in a meeting with someone from product and someone from engineering, and the conversation, like, devolves into some, like, big company strategy discussion?"
• 13:12
  Like, I think as marketers, you're normally... You're, like, given the company or the product that you have, and you have to do your best job with that.
• 13:18
  But sometimes once you start talking through, "Okay, I have this piece of content," like, "What's our messaging?" And you're like, "Oh, I have to develop our messaging."
• 13:26
  And then if you don't have a product market in your organization, like, you end up going through all these step- strategic steps, and sometimes you end up going back to your company.
• 13:34
  I was in this situation once where I was like, "I don't really know what our differentiation is to competitors." And they said, "You know what? We don't really know either. Like, I think it's just price.
• 13:42
  I think we're just cheaper." And so sometimes you end up, like, un- pulling a thread that you don't want. [laughs] Well, I had to devise a whole- Yeah... content strategy on us being cheaper. Yeah. Oh, wow.
• 13:50
  You're like, how do you... You pull a thread, and it goes somewhere you didn't want it to go, and like- [laughs]... I think that's a common experience as well.
• 13:56
  Yeah, I guess I selfishly, like, I love that because I love being a part of more of those big picture conversations and understanding, you know, how does our business make money and what products are we bringing to the market.
• 14:10
  But I think that the different organizations that I've worked at, it really is the difference between, you know, what your product marketing or solutions marketing people are in charge of versus your content marketing versus whether you have a larger content department, and that's where the overlap might not happen quite as much because there are more, like, defined responsibilities.
• 14:32
  One of the things that I'm actually potentially gonna be working on soon is actually a RACI model for, like, all content that goes out the door because historically we've had more of a stronger product marketing presence, I think, than a content marketing presence.
• 14:47
  So there are shifts in tone, et cetera, and so I think it really depends on the makeup of your business.
• 14:54
  But I do think if you don't have a product marketer, 100% I've been pulled into, "Can you help us write this one-pager? Can you help us do this?" And I'm like, "Am I the best person to do this?"
• 15:06
  Like, sure, I can help you make it sound great. I like these headlines. I'm comfortable with the copy, but is this really doing what we need it to? Am I confident in the actual product messaging in it? I don't know.
• 15:19
  [laughs] You know? So I do think that that's... I think strong content marketers have to have the knowledge of product marketing, and they have to have some of those foundations and vice versa.
• 15:29
  I think the two teams and departments need to really learn how to work together, but I do see a lot of those things falling to content marketing when it's kind of like, should this be my job? Is it?
• 15:40
  Like, I don't know about that. I want to call out one thing that you mentioned, a RACI model. I'm not sure every listener, probably most... Well, maybe not every listener knows what that is.
• 15:49
  Can you just- Oh, God, you're gonna put me on the spot for what that acronym is. Yeah. Please don't use any acronyms that you can't say. There we go. Yeah.
• 15:58
  So RACI model is, uh, responsible, accountable, consulted, and informed. Thanks, Google.
• 16:04
  But essentially it clarifies, like, your roles and responsibilities, so in this case, it might be product marketing is the one that defines our go-to-market actual, like, messaging, and then content is the one that takes that messaging and puts it into a go-to-market ready, like, format, like on our website, et cetera.
• 16:22
  And then it... for me, it'll be, like, the other members of the team that'll be either consulted or just as an FYI, like, this is happening. For sure. So it'll be a new thing, but I'm excited about it.
• 16:34
  I think it'll help align us a lot more. Yeah. I tried the RACI stuff in the past. I think
• 16:41
  it, it didn't work in the organization I had been in, but I think that was more the result of, like, other organizational issues rather than the market. So I'm excited to see how that goes for you. We'll see.
• 16:52
  [laughs] Yeah. So I think this is a good transition 'cause, you know, we wanted to get more into, like, how to make yourself more visible
• 16:59
  both in terms of, like, the extra work you're doing, but mostly in terms of getting more visibility for, like, the core kind of content results and work you're doing. 'Cause I think...
• 17:10
  So, like, let's assume a world where you have said no to all the things that you should say no to and that, like, you know, you are working on where you can provide the most value.
• 17:21
  Like, how do you make more of that value seen internally? So where would you start, Chloe? Yeah, so I think a big thing on this, and I talk about this a lot, is finding, like, your content evangelist.
• 17:32
  So making sure that you're working really cross-collaboratively and with other people in the organization to create your actual content.
• 17:40
  So if you are just slapping someone's name as a byline on at the end of the day, and they haven't been involved in the actual creation, and it's more of an FYI rather than kind of getting them hyped up and on the journey in creating that piece of content, then that's kind of a missed opportunity to me, right?
• 17:55
  Because people are more excited when they feel more connected to what's being published. So I think that's kind of one piece of it.
• 18:02
  The second piece of it is being sure that you're positioning the content in terms of what everyone else cares about, which a lot of times is how does it connect to revenue?
• 18:14
  How does it connect to a wider marketing campaign?
• 18:18
  Like, in that case, maybe how it fueled...Say you had a really big event, and then everyone's excited about the event, but then, okay, well, what is the content repurpose plan from it?
• 18:29
  You know, like always just trying to create that through line in terms of this is how content is just helping other organizations and other pieces in the business. At one of my companies, we...
• 18:41
  the product itself was an employee engagement platform, and part of that was company blogs, essentially.
• 18:49
  And you could segment them, so you could segment them to either different organizations or different offices, et cetera. So we decided to run...
• 18:58
  We had a marketing, overall marketing, you know, monthly blog that our SVP or our VP of growth would run.
• 19:06
  And then I was like, "I would really love a content-focused one because we're doing a lot, and I would like it to be more visible. I don't wanna just have one little paragraph."
• 19:16
  So a member on my team came up with the idea of, or the name for the Content Chronicles, and someone on my team, we each kind of traded responsibilities, and it was a monthly newsletter that talked about what was kind of top performing, what was getting high engagement, what was getting shared a lot on social, you know, what was performing well in terms of revenue, and again, creating that through line so that people understood why we were publishing things.
• 19:40
  And then getting people excited about what was to come. And then the last part of it was kind of almost little shout-outs for people that were sharing and that were really active with our content.
• 19:51
  So we had the ability to tag people to kind of bring them into that blog post and send recognition and engagement.
• 19:57
  And at first, it only went out to the sales and marketing team, and then eventually customer success was like, "Wait, I wanna know about this."
• 20:06
  And then product was like, "Hey, wait, I was tagged in this and I can't access it." So then I just decided screw it, and decided to send it to the entire company and take the segmentation off.
• 20:16
  And we had about a little over, like, one-third of the business that was actively, like, reading this post, 'cause you could see all the stats on that. So that was, like, one big thing that we did.
• 20:27
  If you don't have the means to do that, you can always do, like, wrap-ups in Slack.
• 20:31
  You can pair that with, like, a video, but make it more of a consistent piece so that it's not just, "Oh, we published this piece of content. Yay, here's a blurb that you're gonna ignore."
• 20:41
  But more so, like, make a splash, right? Like, here's our monthly roundup, here's our quarterly roundup, whatever is appropriate for you. Yeah.
• 20:49
  And I think to summarize that, I think it's like use your marketing skill set internally, and I think go to the channels where your team is most active.
• 20:59
  And I try to do kind of a combination of constant drip and then bigger signpost splashes, like you said. So I actually do have just, like, an automation that every time I publish a new blog, it just goes to Slack.
• 21:14
  And the point of it isn't really... like, I don't expect our team to read all of our SEO blog posts, but it's just for them to see sort of like the constant trickle of work that's happening.
• 21:24
  Yeah, and that's just, like, a simple RSS integration in Slack, right? Yeah.
• 21:28
  I think that's one of the easiest things you can do just so that people understand, like, what are you actually doing, what's actually getting published. I love that. Yeah. There's, like, the day-to-day thing.
• 21:38
  Even, like, our founder does daily-ish LinkedIn posts, and even we're just sharing those internally.
• 21:44
  Like, it's partially to get the sort of LinkedIn advocacy and likes and engagement, and we're sort of like our own engagement pod in that way.
• 21:51
  But also it's like a constant reminder every single day to the team that content is happening, right?
• 21:57
  And so there's this, like, daily drip of engagement that I try to do and then, like, see if you can get space at your company all hands or town hall to talk about initiatives.
• 22:08
  And I think, like, the biggest thing for me in pivot and trying to become a more visible senior leader in this world is, like, really try to focus less on tactics
• 22:20
  when you're talking to other people in the organization 'cause I just def- like, I'm a nerd about it, right? So I love to show people, like, the air table I built or the blog we wrote or...
• 22:29
  and you talk about, like, "Oh, we published nine blog posts." But
• 22:32
  kind of every chance you get in front of people, like, explain the why, explain the downstream effects you're hoping to see, show, you know, past performance of something like th- like, just make sure you're not just saying, "Here's what we're doing."
• 22:45
  It's, "Here's what we're doing, why we're doing it, how it connects to you," and then, yeah, try to, like, speak other people's language. Yeah, I think that's really good advice.
• 22:54
  I think the what's in it for me is massive, right?
• 22:58
  Like, if you're talking to your product leaders or you're talking to your product managers and things like that, it's like, oh, you know, we published this blog around company innovations, and that highlighted the work that your team's been doing, which has been really great.
• 23:11
  I would love to work with product manager A on uncovering more of what they're doing in this line of work, for example.
• 23:20
  And then versus your sales team where you're like, "Oh, you know, one thing that we're hearing in the market is A, so we wrote a blog post on it.
• 23:28
  I think this'll really help with prospect conversations because we heard that you're dealing with problem A." You know?
• 23:34
  But really helping them connect the dots as much as possible in terms of what you're getting out in the market and how it relates to them. Totally.
• 23:43
  And another thing I do, which you made reference to, is just making sure that when people do come to you with content ideas that are good, that you're, like, constantly keeping them into the loop.
• 23:53
  And I think in general, I don't know who gave me this advice, but at some point someone told me, like, "Tell people what you're gonna do, tell them why you're doing it, and then once you're done, tell them you did it."
• 24:03
  It's like this... Don't just, like, announce the launch of something. Yes. Yeah. Make it, make- Something should feel like so old hat by the time you've put it out in the world to your company. Like, so...
• 24:13
  because-If you only tell people something about something once, they'll just forget it. And so this- Mm-hmm...
• 24:19
  idea of, like, keeping people involved in the process all the way through, it also shows how much work something is. Like, if you're talking about it for four months because it took you four months, it feels different.
• 24:28
  It removes the perception that you're like the arts and crafts department and everything is easy.
• 24:33
  Yeah, and I think it goes to one of the things that I'm just crazy passionate about, which is just breaking down silos, right?
• 24:39
  It's like the more people you get on that journey of, like, what you're doing, why you're doing it, how they can support you, the more that you can shout out to them and recognize them.
• 24:49
  Like, "Hey, thank you so much for engaging with our content. Thank you for telling us how that helped a deal," for example.
• 24:55
  Like, at one of my old companies, that was massive, and we actually wanted to make it more part of, you know, their OKRs as well in terms of sharing their content or engaging with it, and we never quite got to a model for that, probably because of the commission structure of everything.
• 25:13
  But if there's a way that you can kind of gamify it or, again, having it come from the top down in terms of this being an imperative, I think that's just hugely important.
• 25:23
  You kind of raised an interesting philosophical question for me is like how do I actually like to receive credit?
• 25:28
  [laughs] Like, that, that's the whole, the theme of this episode, but I'm not even sure personally what the answer is. Like, I mean, the big ones are I hope marketing gets the budget that
• 25:39
  we ask for and need and that leadership understands the value of content marketing. So that's why I want the credit. You know, I hope that I'm valued- Yeah... in my salary and bonuses or things like that.
• 25:51
  But so much of it is just, like, internal recognition at a reasonable, like, a, a reasonable [laughs] quantity of, like, pats on the back. You know what I mean?
• 26:00
  Like- Well, I mean, hey, you know I worked at a recognition company for seven and a half years, so we can go on a tangent about that. Yeah, I mean, yeah.
• 26:07
  I mean, I think that it's like no one wants to just not understand where their work is going and why they're doing, and why they're doing things.
• 26:16
  If you keep someone, you know, motivated, if you keep them connected to their purpose, like why are you at your job?
• 26:23
  And if you feel like everything that you're doing is just going into a vacuum and you're not being recognized or appreciated, that's absolutely going to show in your morale and in your outputs as well.
• 26:36
  And I think, you know, you said it very nicely, like, I really want marketing to get the budget, and that's my main motivator. Look, your main motivator is I'd like to keep my job. I think that would be great.
• 26:46
  [laughs] Right? So it's the more that...
• 26:50
  But the more that you can connect yourself to, again, the business goals, and this is what I harp on all the time, it's like that's what needs to be really shouted about, and people get excited about that kind of stuff.
• 27:01
  Absolutely. And that got me thinking too about reporting internally, not just about the tac- Mm...
• 27:08
  like, the, th- you know, the initiatives, marketing initiatives you're doing, but also, like, what should your reporting look like, and I think there's a really good course in the Superpath Pro archives that Jimmy wrote, and it's How to Report on Content Marketing: Narrative, Numbers, Names, and Nuance is the f- catchy title that Jimmy had.
• 27:29
  Ooh, look at Jimmy with his alliteration. You know, if you're in Superpath, definitely check that out. If you're not, I highly recommend it.
• 27:34
  But I read that maybe five years ago, and I think I used to do internal reporting that was very much like, "Here's a spreadsheet. Here's a graph. Look at the graph every month, everybody."
• 27:45
  And, like, you know, the look at... What's the Nickelback "Look at this graph" meme is that.
• 27:50
  But what Jimmy's course talks about is how important it is to include, like, nuance in a narrative in your reporting every month. So here's the data, and here's what I'm interpreting from this data.
• 28:02
  Here's what you should take away. Here's what's interesting. And not to get too stuck in any...
• 28:08
  Like, I think we love to have these repeatable processes for ourselves of, like, I have the sheet, I fill in these numbers, and I hit send, but make sure that you're interpreting data for other people too who aren't necessarily as marketing savvy.
• 28:21
  I think that's a good point, and I think I would also say make sure that you're slicing and dicing the data and bubbling up the appropriate amounts of data.
• 28:30
  Like, I think some LinkedIn thread that I was on a couple years ago and someone was asking for advice about presenting to more of an executive board about content metrics, and their first kind of
• 28:43
  breakdown of it, I had to jump in and say, "Whoa, this is way too much. Like, no one cares about these types of metrics. Maybe your CMO will. You know, as a content leader, you will.
• 28:55
  Maybe your demand gen person will," but you've got to make it palatable for them in a way that, again, just tries to explain how this is affecting, like, your overall revenue, your overall go-to-marketing efforts.
• 29:10
  Don't talk about things like, you know, bounce rate or the fact that you're ranking number one in 15, 20 different keywords. Like, only talk about that if it makes thematic sense, right?
• 29:21
  Like, this is the volume that we have. This is the keywords that we're going after, and this is what we're trying to move upmarket with in this category. Like, that's why that's important, right?
• 29:30
  Like, no one cares if there's been a 10% increase in traffic in a particular keyword, et cetera. Like, don't... So don't overwhelm with data, I would say is my other piece of advice there. Perfect.
• 29:42
  Do you have anything else to add before we wrap up this episode? Any other invisible things you wanna bring to the light?
• 29:50
  Just, just, you know, end it on, like, a motivational, like, I know you might feel invisible, but, like, we're here for you. Like, it's... We've all been there, for sure.
• 30:00
  I think that, you know, I don't have a lot of problem being the loudest person in the room sometimes, but I think that you, whomever feels this way, shouldn't feel that they can't shout from the rooftops what they're doing because the work that we're doing does matter, and it is important to business.
• 30:16
  And so just remember that. Yeah. And I think, again, use your marketing skill set. Even if you're introverted and not great in meetings,
• 30:25
  whatever it is, use your marketing skill set, whatever has, makes you a great marketer, to advocate for yourself and your team as well, and you will get all the credit you deserve.
• 30:35
  And hopefully Jimmy gives us the credit we deserve for this incredible episode when he returns. I hope he does. I'm expecting a thank you card in the mail, even though I don't even think he has my address. He'll find it.
• 30:47
  He'll... You know, if it's important to him- He will... he'll put in the effort. And I will say, shout out the Superpath Pro community. This is super common feeling I think people have of am I doing too much?
• 30:58
  Am I not doing enough? Why am I not being appreciated?
• 31:01
  I think the Superpath Pro community is a great place to sort of either vent out those frustrations or ask those questions, and there's a whole people, group of 400 people waiting to support you, so.
• 31:13
  And understand how to navigate those conversations too, I will say, is the other piece as well. Exactly. So superpath.co. There, yep, that's the website that I've typed 1,000 times. And join the Pro community there.
• 31:28
  Thank you so much, Chloe, for chatting with me about invisible things, and hopefully everyone has a wonderful day. It's been a pleasure. Thanks, Eric.
• 31:37
  [outro music]