Latest / The Complete Agent - The Podcast For Premium Real Estate Agents / 128. Why becoming a better agent starts with becoming a better version of yourself Ft. Matt Giggs
Transcript
- speaker-0: Hello and welcome to the Complete Agent Podcast, where each week we get together to talk all things a state agency. My name is James Kendall, and this week I'm not joined by Ian or Dave, but I've got even better set a better team this week. I'm joined by my wonderful friend and colleague, Michelle Smith, and very special guest, Mr. Matt Giggs. Guys, how are we? speaker-1: Very good, are you? Very, very good. speaker-0: Very good, very good. Let's start with our weekly tradition. How's your week been? Now I know you've been away this week, ⁓ I know you were gonna talk about later on the pod a little bit, but Michelle, how has your week been? speaker-2: My week has been great. So we went to a festival at the weekend, Bestival in Dorset. So I'm not going to lie, I'm kind of a shadow of my former self this week because, you know, what, been to a festival with the kids and it's full on. So I've been doing a lot of mumming and a lot of catching up with work, but had a great client session yesterday with one of our TCA members who are going through the next level of growth. And they have got as far as they can as a business and they're a great business, but through kind of owner input. So my role is putting in the structures and the systems to allowing their team to kind of push forward whilst they go to the next stage of growth. So that's always exciting. I love doing that. It's one of my favorite things to help clients with. So there's been a lot of planning and work around that this week. And just the, you know, it's school holidays, isn't it? So, we probably touch on this later, but I just, feel rung out. You know, it's, you might hear my kids in the background, you know, I'm hoping they're not going to have a row. It's 9.15, so it's not looking good. You know, there's normally one due about now. But yeah, it's the eternal juggle, isn't it? Of kids, work and everything you do in between. But yeah, good week. speaker-0: Matt, you've been on the ⁓ World Tour ⁓ of speaking, haven't you? I seen on your Instagram like you've ⁓ been doing a hundred shows around the world. ⁓ well it seems like anyway. How how's your how's your week been, mate? speaker-1: We love a bit of Instagram, don't we? ⁓ funny enough, I find Instagram a bit better now than LinkedIn. I don't know. Yeah, I've just I don't know. It's a little bit more straightforward, just clips, videos. ⁓ I I I genuinely think the the is the podcast that I do, a State Aged Showdown, has been has been one of the best projects I've ever worked on. Yeah, no, it's been brilliant. I loved it. I it's to be honest, it's what I enjoy doing the most, which is just having great conversations with people. ⁓ speaker-0: I really. speaker-1: You know, that's t that tends to be what my week looks like every week now. So it it really is, you know, doing something that I love most days. I know it sounds a bit cheesy, but I I genuinely do. I look forward to most days. In and I think that's important. If you if you if you're in this industry, it can be quite heavy at times. And ⁓ you know, finding the place where I feel like I'm doing my best work is ⁓ is great. So yeah, speaking in Ireland was fantastic. Never kind of done that before over there and ⁓ the agents there were just incredible. What a great group. There's a couple of hundred agents there. was at a a lovely venue in Waterford called the Theatre Royal. Had some had some big names there, so I thought I'd put mine ⁓ alongside it. That is a joke for anyone listening, by the way. ⁓ I nearly cracked that as I went out onto the stage, but I decided to go down a different route and forget the name of the person that I was referring to from the night before. But it was great. It was ⁓ it was a really good talk, had lots of fun. ⁓ it's really opened my eyes as to ⁓ how different Ireland is to the UK in terms of its marketplace, but also ⁓ they're ahead on things like compliance and regulation, but they're behind on personal development. So I I see that as an opportunity of maybe going back there and And doing some more work on what we're gonna call the spotlight series on on agents in Ireland and and actually go and film in their business, found a story, film a live podcast, do a QA, do a training session, do ⁓ like a Louis Thoreau style awkward questions, silent moments kind of stuff around the team. So producing almost like a documentary for the business. But the reason for that is because they They're very fearful about how they're perceived by people in their towns. They're in small towns, small villages, and they're the most incredibly humble, humorous people that I've ever come across. But good God, they they are hidden. And they're hidden for that very reason, which is a fear of being judged. So that was great. So going to Ireland was great. I've filmed ⁓ we've got eight episodes now in the bank for the show. I met Last week Stephen Brown, which was like an hour and ten minutes of promotion, ⁓ talking about obviously his late wife and stuff like that. And just Vicky Biberis, ⁓ a guy from Dubai who was a bit of a random interview, but really delivered some great ⁓ insights to what's happened since the war, ⁓ the war with Iran and all of those different things. And then Amelia Sordell is a personal brand specialist, and Benji Weinberger from DDRE. So speaker-0: That guy. speaker-1: twenty four, forty eight hours in London, five episodes filmed. But you know what? I left there feeling absolutely amazing. And it feels like, you know, most days I'm able to be in these types of conversations and, you know, I love it. Now, slight drawback, my lad broke his arm at or his wrist yesterday at football. I know. Yeah. So still managed to stay over at his mate's house, which was a you know speaker-0: Ha ha ha. speaker-2: Priorities. speaker-1: Yeah. ⁓ and then ⁓ my middle one's over at her friends. We've got two sleeping over elsewhere tonight. My eldest is in her bedroom. I'm pretty sure she'll come out at some point and tell me off 'cause she tends to parent me ⁓ more now than I parent her. So yeah, but it's been really good, thank you, mate. And ⁓ thanks for thanks for letting me come on and ⁓ meet you and Michelle today. speaker-0: Well it's ⁓ it's second time round, isn't it? This is your second time on the podcast. An accolade not everyone can ⁓ can hold. ⁓ Gatesy's been on a couple of times. speaker-1: My little awards thing with ⁓ the Esther Awards, there's the completed podcast episode. Absolutely, mate. speaker-0: Second episode. Career appearances. Career appearances. just to cap off, so our week as a as a business, ⁓ yeah, okay. I mean, we're starting to slow down a little bit in terms of summer holidays. ⁓ so there's still plenty being done. There's still serious buyers and sellers out there. ⁓ we've got some nice stuff coming on. ⁓ we've got a we're shooting one today, actually. nine hundred ⁓ K sort of modern build with a bit of a rare Bit of a rare beast actually. ⁓ it's on a sort of small development of about twenty-four houses and this particular home bought another half an acre of land next to it. ⁓ so it's a little bit of a a rare entity. ⁓ so we're shooting that today. we then got tomorrow ⁓ gold duster at six hundred. Next week we've got one at ⁓ a really nice one actually. ⁓ three and a half million pounder on loads of land. Really, really nice one. ⁓ and then we've got another one next week at nine hundred at an old chapel. Well, just under nine hundred. So got got lots kind of happening. ⁓ sales month last month was okay. ⁓ you know, didn't break any records, but we just an average month really. speaker-1: Yeah, save for us. Same for us. speaker-0: I mean you may have found, I we'll we'll dive into this in a in a little bit as well, is that you know the the state of agency is that and just one thing I really just wanted to mention on the week is our social media pre-launch strategy that we've been using in ⁓ TCA, and it's just some of the comments that I've had on social media this week. ⁓ now this podcast will be marked as explicit, so I can say it out loud, but I've been called a total wanker ⁓ so far, which speaker-2: I thought your wife didn't comment. ⁓ speaker-0: I thought because I thought it was you. Are you ⁓ random pineapple nine six eight? Is that you? ⁓ No, literally like so it because we don't put the price on the listing, ⁓ in the in the in the pre-launch. This guy's gone a listing without a price, clickbait, total wankers. honestly, I've been absolutely hammered on some of these things here, but I've just been sending them to Dave and Ian and just laughing. ⁓ Literally, I as soon as I get a a comment like that. I block it, I ban it, I delete it, and I move on. It just makes me laugh. And I just think, you know what, I'm just gonna use use your comment that you've given me for extra exposure, for extra views. Because these reels are getting anywhere between I mean, the the lowest one is around five thousand. ⁓ this one in particular is at around forty thousand. And just sharing into local groups, and I see so many agents that are so scared to share into local groups because they're gonna attract that sort of criticism. speaker-1: But who cares? speaker-0: Like it's Facebook, just because people on Facebook don't like ya, who cares? You know, it is what it is. If you and it's a bit like when we send our market update letters out to people. If you don't get people that write back infuriated at you because you've had the bollocks to actually send it, you're not sending enough. So use that as a marker, like especially with social media, with putting yourself out there. If you aren't being called a total wanker, then You're not sending enough out and you're not putting enough into the universe. speaker-1: That was called a Bellend recently. So that was speaker-2: on my face. speaker-0: This is a this isn't a podcast, this is a therapy session. Used on social media. speaker-1: That was a great client. I haven't heard that for ages. And but but you're right, I think ⁓ you know, there's this it's funny, isn't it? 'Cause that when you speak to the agents like you just said and and you it's the same in the UK as it is in Ireland actually, the fear of being judged or trolling or whatever you want to call it. But you know, when you look at it actually in in in essence, they're not actually your clients. They're not the kind of clients you're gonna want to work with, so fuck right off. It's absolutely speaker-0: Thanks right to self identifying. speaker-1: Yeah, thank you for building my algorithm or whatever. And ⁓ no, you can sometimes have a bit of fun with it. Depends on what mood you're in, you know. ⁓ I I don't y you can't take any of it too seriously, that's for sure. speaker-0: People want to be liked, don't they? It's in our human nature that we we want to be liked and accepted by people. But at the same time, as you just said there, Matt, equally it though that social media post has been enough to push that nine hundred K that I'm listing next week over the line. He rang me last night at six o'clock and ⁓ he said, Look, we've been debating which agent we're gonna use. We've had a couple of hours. Obviously, you're double the cost of what ⁓ one of the other agents has quoted. speaker-1: I hope you put him right. I hope you put him right when he said that. Yeah. speaker-0: Yeah, triple. Triple. ⁓ But but I said to him, ⁓ I said, you know, what what is it that's made you made your decision? He goes, to be honest, I really like the social media videos that you do. He goes, I've seen all the abuse that you get ⁓ on there and I've seen like they've disappeared and we had laugh about it. ⁓ but he just said it's different. He goes, I love that you put yourself out there and you don't care and you're doing it for the you know the g you know, I want my property to look like that and I want people coming and seeing my house and exposing it. And because of the strategy that we use. You know, he's f fully on board. You know, it becomes less about a who's gonna value my house the highest and quote me the lowest fee. I've got an expert and a trusted advisor in my room, and I buy into everything that you say and I'm prepared to go on this journey with you because I think you're the best person for the job. and I'd helped him helped him out with negotiating on another house that they wanted to buy locally as well, FOC, before they even signed a contract. ⁓ so Again, just adding that bit of value and having that social media campaign ⁓ has helped get another one across the line. Anyway, let's talk about the so we've got a couple of things to go through. First thing we want to talk about is, and we kind of touched on it already, is kind of this the state of affairs in the industry, and the state of play. How are we seeing the industry between us? Obviously, we've all got different perspectives, right? in terms of our relevant roles. ⁓ I mean, Matt, you don't you want to kick off? Obviously you've been to Ireland, you you know, you talked about how compliant and I mean, so w I know some amazing agents in Ireland. You know, we've even got some in TCA where they're brilliant agents and, you know, really thoughtful. ⁓ and I remember, you know, this particular person said something a really great anecdote about ⁓ you know comparing a state agency with hotels and are you a you know, five star experience? You know, what What does a five-star experience look like in agency? ⁓ and I just think, you know, there are so many great agents. You know, we're in this social media bubble, aren't we, right? It's where, you know, we're all in the same groups, you know, we see a lot of the same circles and we see a lot of the same people pop up again on LinkedIn, Facebook, Instagram. ⁓ but there are a lot of hidden gems that are, you know, out there doing good work, being great agents, being great people, great leaders that we don't know. ⁓ so Wha wha how do you see the state of the industry and ⁓ and where it's going and where are the wins for those that want to get better? Yeah, go for it. Yeah. And we're we'll we'll we'll we'll pass pass it around as we go. speaker-1: Do you want me to go? Go. Yeah. I mean look, I I'm I'm so lucky now to be able to refer to stories, actual people doing the great work today and what those results actually look like. So I'll pick the one that's just gone live today. And it's it's not a deliberate plug, I know it sounds like it is, of ⁓ a state agent showdown, but there's a guy called Ross Final. And Ross ⁓ three and a half years to this day messaged me and pretty much said he wanted to give up on his business. He was charging one percent. He Was running a business and burning out. And I think that's a story, even there, if we cut it off, that a lot of people running small independent estate agencies and possibly self-employed brokers as well will be feeling very, very related to that sort of ⁓ that feeling right now. I suppose Michelle, you're you're probably seeing that as well from your side. ⁓ and I think this is the the thing is that the market. Is what you make of it. Now it's an easy statement to make. I always believe you can make your market. I would rather work in a market where agents don't sell houses overnight, where anyone could pick up a set of keys, show people round, and the house is going to do the selling. And the, you know, the offers will come in, you you ask for more, they go up, the vendor says, Great, we'll we'll we'll take that. It we're not in that climate. We're in a climate whereby Agents only have to be really good at one thing, and that's demonstrating value. And demonstrating value isn't just about this is why we're worth what we're worth. It's actually what you said earlier on, James, which is ⁓ you've demonstrated value to someone prior to them giving you the terms, which was to help them negotiate on an onward purchase. That's value. And I think agents forget that every day you have multiple opportunities. to demonstrate value. And what Ross did, Ross took his mindset from being fixed, focused on ⁓ what was going on around him, because in 2022, if you remember 2023, there was the the high level of interest rates. Things were very different than two years prior or a year prior. And ⁓ agents in the year prior would be posting everywhere saying how great they are, but it's actually the market. As soon as the market turns, it's the market's fault, right? So You can't have it both ways. You've got to decide, is it you or is it the market? Well, first of all, if you say Ross had to decide it's him. So what does that actually look like? Well, first thing is he was drinking too much. He stopped he quit drinking. I mean, it was his own decision. and and that brought to so many changes in his life. He exercised me, James, you look amazing, and so do you, Michelle. But having known James for a while, I'd say, James, you look at your best that I've ever seen in all of the years that I've known you. Now, that's not a coincidence. That's down to a series of things that you've done over time. And I believe a state agency is the same thing. So what Ross did is he worked on himself first, then his business next. Once he got himself right and his energy was there, it's much easier then to go and get into the conversations that you should be in in this market that will demonstrate value. And if you're doing that on a daily basis, you will make a very successful business because your competition is shit. They're not in comp they're not in conversations. They're not even marketing properties to get attention, let alone going and sitting down with someone four weeks into marketing and saying, look, can I show you what we've done, show you what the feedback's been, and show you the route forward if you want to still get to this outcome. And I just feel like there's a huge opportunity for agents that are prepared to look at themselves first and look at the market second. Mm-hmm. And actually, if you do that, you can unpack so many things that you don't even realise that you've got, you can go to that next level. And just to bring it to another example, a lady that works for me, she's been doing the job for twenty years. She's only been with us four or five months, but she's worked predominantly in another area. And she's put her identity into knowing that area. And that's why she got houses on the market in that area and she was successful in that area, earning well in that area. And being in a new area, she feels a bit more vulnerable. So she's got this thing in her head that actually not knowing the prices off the back of her hand and things like that is is and and and fees are higher with us than they were at the previous stage. All of these things have gone into the mix of self-doubt. So all we did is we sat down, we looked at her energy. She's quite a spiritual lady. So she decided to look at her tarot cards and go down the she's a s you know, Queen of Wands, I think it is. So I'll just call her the Queen, right? She's the queen. speaker-0: Yeah. speaker-1: But you laugh, right? And and and actually sh if she believes she is the bloody queen of what she does, which she is because she fucking cares, she's great with people. And when she's on it, she has what's called a with or without you energy. So she can go into appointments. And when you've lose the with or without you energy, you go into what's called desperation energy, where you're trying to win the business. And when you're trying to win the business, the barriers go up, the energy changes and clients don't really want to work with someone. Who is desperate, they want someone who's confident. So she's gone into this zone of changing her energy first. That was the first week, looking at just little tweaks and changes, reminding herself of who she really is, the value that she brings, looking at her track record, a wall of belief. And then second thing was, how many great conversations did you seriously have last week? And she said four in a week. Now, this is someone with bags of experience. And we're not the type of agent to micromanage, count the number of phone calls that you do. Honestly, I didn't build a business to have people like that in my business. I built it to give people the opportunity to come and produce their best work with our direction. So we looked at the four, and the four that she had created a sale, created a listing, created a change in price strategy, and also created a viewing. So four great conversations created something. And we define what a great conversation actually looked like. So I use a framework called Great, very much about understanding. The person first and giving value and all of those different elements. And she's now taken that four a week to four a day. Well, guess what's happened? She's multiplied the result. Okay. So the result was there, but she didn't see it. And I think the result is there, but most agents do not see it today. And ⁓ I think they often punch or they they they they they often look speaker-0: Yeah. speaker-1: Outside rather than inside of the things that you've probably heard before you can control. So they'll look at you know the Right Move Pie chart, they'll look at what Right Move says or what the news is doing, or there's the World Cup, and there's all of these different things. But fundamentally, have you done what you're great at doing every day, which is to give your clients that you work with on every single opportunity an opportunity to understand how they can move from where they are. To the next place. And she that's completely who she is. So she's now not only playing to her strengths. Instead of me going, can you increase your calls from 20 to 50 in a day? Where if you're losing confidence and you're lacking confidence, what's the least thing you want to go and do? What's the last thing on your mind? More is to go and get more rejection, right? Yeah. It's actually you change the perception. And I think that starts with an agent. Change the perception of Your world, if you're running a business, if you're an agent showing up every day, what's your perception of your day? What's your perception of the opportunity? And I think that's what you would be doing with clients, Michelle. I know you've done it, James, with with your guys. And it's something that I really believe in. And what I've probably just focused on a lot more in the last twelve months is is stories. ⁓ you know, turning statistics into stories, using stories so people can connect and That could be with a client, that can be with an agent, that can be with a business owner. And actually helping them rebuild the right perception to go and do the right work every day. So there you go. speaker-2: love that Matt, I love it. And I think it's so common. I mean, we talk about it a lot about your brain has a negativity bias. So it will automatically scan for kind of what went wrong or what could be better. Cause it's trying to keep you safe ultimately. And what you said about your queen, just, I love that. Cause I think it is really tangible and relatable. And I had a client who very similar, he's a one man band. He's really good. He cares deeply. And when we had our coaching call, you know, he's doing good, you know, he is, but everything was wrong and he's not doing enough of this and he's not doing enough of that. And this could be better. He's got a couple of sticky ones and he's worried about the conversation with the sellers because they need price realignments. And, you know, he gave me the backstory on those. When I kind of just paused him and, you know, we went straight back to his why I was like, why do you run this business? What are your value buckets? And when he said, said, any of those empty? And he said, no. and I said, okay, so what's happening? Because what you're telling me is, you know, completely different to actually where you're aligned with your values. And, know, he said, in this, I think this is really interesting. You know, we are. programmed for more, more, more, and it isn't good enough. And when you talk about energy, I really believe in energetics and, you know, wherever your attention goes, that's where your energy flows. So if you're constantly looking at the bad, what needs to be better, without you even trying, that's actually seeping out of your body, isn't it? And that's what clients will feel. So I think that redirection to start off is really important. ⁓ to allow them to have the right energy to get the results that they actually want in the first instance. But just relating back to market, I think what I'm seeing a lot of is agents that have done really well and they've taken their business to a certain level. And because the market has shifted, all the backend stuff that, you know, you can't really see gaps when the market is good. ⁓ you know, if things are broken again, you can't see it cause the volume is just coming, coming, coming and you're, you're servicing it. And I'm finding that a lot of leaders now are having to lift their head up and not be so much in the business, but noticing that there needs to be more work on the business and what needs to happen in the background to give them more sustainable growth that isn't market dependent. So I think this is a really uncomfortable. and absolutely vital stage for businesses, which the market is creating. So you've got to be kind of thankful because, you know, when the market changes, which it will, you know, it will move again to a different stage. Having done that work on the background stuff and the structures and the processes and the culture within your business, that's what, you know, springboards you to the next level of growth. So I think a lot of people are experiencing uncertainty, bit of uncomfortable, you know, nurse. And I always say to clients, there's breakdown before breakthrough. And I think quite a few people are going through that breakdown stage to get to a breakthrough. That's what I'm seeing. speaker-1: But i y you're so true. I think the trouble is a lot of people don't want to work on that stuff because it's it's not a quick win. speaker-2: No, no. speaker-1: That's the problem is that they're seeing that they're they're they're so fixated on quick wins, short term results, that they're not seeing five years down the line. And five years down the line, there'll be a shit market, a good market, and a quiet market. Right? So yeah now, if you want to go on that roller coaster, I tell you what, that's y good luck, you know, 'cause it is a roller coaster. When your when your mood is dictated by the market and your results are dictated by the market, that's a really dangerous place to spend your time in. What's interesting is that if I said to you guys, would you rather work in a market where prices were going up rapidly, demand was really high, and selling a home could be done by a 15-year-old, i.e. my daughter, just go there, open the door, ask everybody on their way out for their highest and final offers to be sent across to us by 12 o'clock Monday. Could you do that? Yes I could. Thank you very much. Would you rather that market where value of an agent actually is possibly in the in the seller's mind less than it is today. So, you know, what we've got today is is what I call controlled opportunity. It's not it's not fucking ⁓ right moves it's gonna go on right move tomorrow. We need to be ready to answer the phones or the newspaper on a Thursday many, many years ago. You know, it's absolutely not. It's not gonna so there's there's there's such a controlled opportunity for everyone from agent to branch manager. speaker-0: Yeah. speaker-1: To business owner, to independent self-employed ⁓ broker. It's such an opportunity. But we're so geared around working in rising markets or what I call ⁓ easy markets. And I've worked in the industry 30 years. I'd say let's say twenty-four of those have been in a rising market. Some are a sharp rise, some are just a steady rise. So, you know, you have to be equipped to work and speaker-0: This speaker-1: And convert the opportunity that this market's presenting for for us today, which is actually a lot of sellers feeling and saying the following. Well, it's a bit quiet, isn't it? How many sellers are saying that today on the ground floor? A lot, because the news is doing half of your storytelling. So actually, if you can enlighten them, show them different approaches to being in control of choosing a buyer. Which you can be if you attractively and aggressively price your home, then you're driving the value up. Then you're going to get to choose who your buyers are. Would you rather that or sit on the market and chase chase the buyer along with the 50 other houses that are on the market too? Now, if if you're an agent, you're able to to explain that and demonstrate those differences of approach, you still leave the decision with the client. And they're only going to just choose what something which is based around their needs. And who's going to want to go to market? Drop the price, then drop the price, and then constantly try and chase the very rare buyer in that price band. So it's I I think we've got a huge opportunity today. But it's very, very hard to ⁓ shift agents' thinking away from how to perceive it today, ⁓ as opposed to being someone that just lets the market dictate their their performance. So like I said earlier, it's You know, in twenty twenty one, if you looked on LinkedIn, everybody was a great estate owner. In Dubai, everybody was, you know, moving there because it's the land of milk and honey and ⁓ every deal's being done. That's not the story. But is there an opportunity? Of course there is. And it's why at the moment, you know, to get in the top twenty percent in this country as an agent, you probably just have to show up on time. You have to probably aren't call people back. speaker-0: Smashing it. Yeah. speaker-1: You probably have to market your properties with professional photography, and then you're in the top 20%. Yeah. To be in the top five percent, you have to do extra things. You have to work on yourself first, bring your energy up, as Michelle said, all of those things. Probably have a bit more of a strategy in play. But the thing that Rachel ⁓ Ross decided to do was focus on one thing first. Rachel's was, I need to have better, more great. Conversations that are impactful every single day. Ross's was how can I expect my business to run at this level if I'm running at this level? And and so you've got to choose what's the the first domino to go down. And I think the first domino is different for Michelle, it's different for James, it's different for me. And ⁓ I think that's where the opportunity is today. So we should be extremely optimistic. speaker-0: Yeah. speaker-1: But realistic about making sure that you make your priorities in line with the with the opportunity. speaker-0: So I think there's a few things that to ⁓ to unpack all of there. So you know I love to unpack Michelle while you're smiling. ⁓ so yeah, definitely you you've got to start with yourself. But I also want to give some practical tips and takeaways for agents that are listening to this today, ⁓ about what this actually looks like and and what you can actually do to implement this within yourself and then also within your business in terms of what the current market's like. So yeah, in terms of working yourself, very kind of you to say so, mate. ⁓ and I I was actually looking ⁓ back at some old pictures ⁓ of myself. ⁓ you know, well, I mean, what was interesting, so my son, bless him, he's nine. And ⁓ we were sitting going through ⁓ old pictures of him on my phone the other day. And ⁓ we were looking at then old pictures of me and he was like, like, Daddy, why were you fat? And I was like, ⁓ mate, like we w how long have you got? ⁓ and I was like, What do you say when a nine year old asked you? I was look, mate, I said look, at the end of the day, it's one of those things, you know, you you've got to prioritize it. And there was there was another thing recently that came up that I saw where they talk about people having midlife crisis ⁓ at like forty. And, you know, p they call it a midlife crisis, but I it was framed in another way where you hit forty and you stop thinking about how you you're living your life for everyone else and you start living your life for yourself and choosing you first. And what what does that look like? And you know, your to speak to you know about your guy Ross, you know, for me it wasn't alcohol. For me, you know, it's it's food, it's exercise, you know. ⁓ but also, you know, get in and we'll perhaps deep dive into this in a bit as well, is ⁓ you know, for your kids, you know, what version is showing up for your kids? What fundamentals are you putting in place? You know, your kids look up to you and if they see overweight, lax parents. That's you know, y your kids are gonna be become small versions of you, right? And the values that you live by and put in place, they're gonna take on board. And I think by being a good role model for my kids in in all various ways, it's not just about whether you're fat, you're thin, whether you, you know, run marathons. I certainly don't do that. ⁓ but it's about what your kids see, they will absorb and they will learn from and they'll you they're like they'll take it one of two ways, right? So, you know, my my dad was an alcoholic. But I don't really touch alcohol. So, you know, you can either break the cycle or you can continue it. but it's also the way with kids and and exercise and and relationship with with food and things like, you know, I've I've had invisalign in the last year. I've decided to straighten my teeth. Like I've I was joking with my other half ⁓ the other night. I was like, you know, it's made me quite vain as I've got as I've hit 40. ⁓ but I've actually taken more of a pride in I mean I've always took pride in my appearance anyway, but like more so, you know, even but also what that has done is to go back to your point, Matt, is it's fed into all sorts of different levels of my life. So in business, in my personal relationships, ⁓ within myself. And there's a great ⁓ anecdotal phrase where, you know, if you hang around with four decades, you end up becoming the fifth decade. And, you know, I surround myself and I'm very lucky that to have a really good network of of of people now and friends and you know people I c I spend time with. And, you know, you you take the energy from those sorts of people. And you know, for example, you know, I do spend a lot of time with Michelle, Ian, Dave. ⁓ and it's generally like at least four days a year. Usually it's at least eight days with all the other stuff that we do, online, offline, talking, and you feed off other people's energy. And, you know, I I look at You know, obviously Michelle, we we've had a lot of time where we've talked about bits. You spent a day in my office. ⁓ you know, I've seen the things that you do at the mastermind, and every time you like speak there, I take away something new. It may not be directly what you were saying on you know on the on the slides, if that makes sense. But it may just be something else that pops up in the room as a result of it where somebody challenges something that's said or somebody takes something on board and go, I haven't thought about this, but da da da and then that ticks something off in your brain. You know, whether it's ⁓ like Dave, for example, talking about a practical tip. And I please bear with me if you're listening to this, my ADHD brain goes all over the place all the time. ⁓ but Dave's anecdotal what what's the best way to put it? Here's his kind of anecdotal he uses with his clients. So for example, practical tip trying to get in in the current market at the moment, right? And ⁓ a lot of instructions I'm picking up at the moment are agents, ⁓ Have been on with other agents. And the biggest thing has been communication. And to your point, Matt, you know, how many great conversations do you have in a week? And it doesn't necessarily have to be with new clients, it needs to be with your existing clients. You know, how are you looking after your existing clients and what what what's the level and the quality of the conversation that you're having with them? So going back to the people that are coming on the market, having conversations with them and having the conversations, the brave conversations that their current agent isn't prepared to have with them. So for example, you know, they're on the market at, I don't know, eight hundred and they've sat on the market at eight hundred, it's going nowhere. And, you know, Dave's anecdote and you if you listen to the podcast, you'd have heard him say it before, you know, but they go through the data. The data comes out at seven three seven. Now, we all know when we've been in that position where telling somebody their house is more like seven three seven than it is eight hundred is it's not an easy conversation to have with someone. But It's the conversation that needs to be had. You know, you don't want to comfort someone with a lie, you'd rather hurt them with the truth. And having that conversation with them and say, look, what's the w why then it write right back? What what's the why? What's the purpose of this move? Why are you moving? What are you looking to do? Then also equally having that conversation and go, look, somebody comes along tomorrow and offers you seven forty, seven thirty, what are doing? You'd be amazed at how many of these people will say, Do you know what, take it? But it's just been sat on the table. There's 60, 70 K's worth of realignment that's been sat on the shelf, hasn't been communicated with for months. And then then educating that client and saying to them to get this, to get to this scenario, here's here's case study A, B, and C, here's the brochure A, B, and C, where this works for this client, this client, and this client. Here's their number if you'd like to speak to them as well. ⁓ but what we need to do is we need to go offers over seven and create a competitive environment, relaunch with new photography. stage and style the house, get a proper social media campaign behind the house as well. Like go through all of that and then say, right, let's let's launch offers over you'd be amazed at how many people will say, James, that sounds brilliant. That's just what I've been waiting to hear. And no one's told me that. These are all this is money that's sitting on the table that's probably in your CRM and ⁓ within your current sphere for your current stock that's on the market. ⁓ we have these conversations with our clients. I had one the other day. ⁓ lot Was on the market with another agent, 700. We took it on at 650. It's gone nowhere. And because I'm really tuned in to go back to your point, Matt, about having great conversations, I'm so tuned into this client's why and what. So I rang them up and said, His name's not John. John, ⁓ it's not worked at 650. The market's telling us that, you know, it's not 650. We've had viewings. We it's not happening. Somebody comes along tomorrow. And offers us six fifteen, six twenty. What are you saying? It's to be honest, I'd I'd probably go with it because the longer I'm here, is is another three, four, five, six months, I'm not nearing my family. Great. Let's go offers over six. Two weeks later, we've got two offers on the table. We've got six fifteen and a six two five on the table that we're working through. And we'll get in mood. And again, to quote Dave, a client never knows what they're going to accept until it's on the table, it's in front of them and it's real. And it actually gets them to where they want to be. And is that fifteen, twenty grand that they were chasing, you know, for the the previous eight to twelve months? Is that gonna get them, you know, how how much is it worth to spend Christmas with the family in the new area unwrapping presents together, then still being stuck in that house, not moved, and not being able to achieve your goal. ⁓ so I just thought I'd unpack that and require That practical advice. I take full credit for that. It's enough to do it, Dave. speaker-2: When you were saying that, JK, I it's solid, solid advice. And obviously I've heard Dave's, know, golden nuggets. But I think taking it a step back, that type of advice can go really, really wrong and it can go really, really right. And what I mean by that is what Matt was saying earlier about getting yourself right, getting your mindset right, getting your energy right. It's actually that. that creates the success in that type of conversation. Because if you're coming from lack, if you're coming from desperation or any of those things, that conversation will not land in the way that it's intended. So I think all of the kind of tools, tactics, strategies that are five-star, which is what a state agency should be about, needs to be delivered by somebody who energetically is in the right place, has got their mindset focused on what the client needs and the client, you know, their whys. But it's too simplistic to give somebody a language pattern to go and speak. They have to do the pre-work as well, otherwise it can just go wrong. speaker-1: Can we just completely speaker-0: I was gonna say talking about our ourselves and so recently another plug for Estate Agent Showdown, the Estate Agents and Podcast by Matt Giggs. We interrupted this podcast now. ⁓ that we we went ⁓ we had a kind of an impromptu podcast, didn't we? Me, you and Gate C for your 50th episode. And speaker-2: I say, my own voice must have got lost in the post-map. speaker-1: Worry, you're coming on for a special. ⁓ speaker-0: Yeah. speaker-2: There we go, smooth maths. speaker-1: Yeah, it's gonna be special one. Like like James's was for th for on the morning of the podcast, can you interview me instead? speaker-0: Yeah, yeah. But yeah, should we go for a coffee in St. Nears and just catch up? Yeah, yeah, no worries. ⁓ by the way, Gates is here and we're gonna do a podcast. Okay, fair enough. Yeah, sounds good. Why not? But what but you know, ⁓ jokes aside, that was a brilliant podcast and a brilliant conversation. And I I really, really enjoy I mean, I always enjoy our conversations anyway, but when we were we were kind of going a l because it was totally unscripted, totally unplanned. And one of the things that I really enjoy like I felt like A lot of people that listen to that podcast, and certainly me, I mean, obviously I I've we've known of each other for a long time and known each other ⁓ better for years. And I I felt like I really got to know Matt Giggs even better on that podcast and people by people, right? And I was one one of the things that kind of came I felt like I was in my own therapy session at the time then as well, because it like just started spilling out of my my mouth. Yeah. We talk one thing that isn't talked about. speaker-1: Yeah. speaker-0: a lot on podcasts. You there's a lot of practical tips, there's a lot of silver bullets, there's a lot of ⁓ what's next in the industry, AI, AI, AI. ⁓ there's a lot of people that listen to podcasts and there's there's not a lot talked about ⁓ you know, we use the sort of mental health thing, but people have talked about mental health and the violin starts playing the background. But the whole like parental guilt thing and the mistakes you make as a parent and but also, you know, working on yourself and You know, being able to be introspective and say, right, you know, I've I've messed up here. And I remember your conversation, Matt, about the whole park, you know, being sat on your laptop and, you know, Melissa and the kids are going over to the park and you know, you've sat there and you've got you know, this you know, this is before the chiseled version of Matt Jiggs that we're seeing today, ⁓ that is not the guy that we were talking about then. But you decided to get up and make a change on that day. And Michelle, obviously, you know, you've you've been on your own journey. You know, we've all been on our own journeys, right? Various different stages of our lives, ⁓ about that personal improvement, whether it is physical or mental, whether it's a combination of one leading into another. ⁓ and I just think if anyone hasn't listened to that podcast, obviously great, you listen to it. But while we're here and while we're talking about it, you know, Michelle, I think you can add a unique insight obviously when it is me, Ian and Dave, it's it can be a very male heavy podcast. I think you can give us some great insight into what that looks like from a fem female and mum mum perspective and you know what that mum guilt looks like. ⁓ for because we do we've got a good spread of listeners actually. ⁓ 30 odd percent of our listeners are female according to the insights. ⁓ I do think there's a real value add there. So maybe if you start Michelle I'll throw the ball over to you like if you can just catch it. And you can tell us what that looks like. So if you've just been away on a festival with the kids, maybe that's a good place to start. So catch the invisible ball. It's all yours. Okay. speaker-2: No, got it. Boom. ⁓ God, it's probably, you know, I'm thick in the summer holidays and I work from home and my kids are 13 and 10. So just to kind of touch, I just feel constantly pulled and that I'm doing a shit job of all things, especially in the summer holidays. Because, you know, they're better, obviously they're quite self-sufficient, but they do want my attention. We've also got horses. So I've got that to fit in as well. And when you're doing my type of work, it literally is, don't come in the office, you know, unless someone's arm is hanging off, I'm not interested. You can deal with it yourself, you know, because I can't be disturbed if I'm on a coaching call with a client. So you're just constantly feeling guilty that, you know, you have work to do and you're not getting that done and then I'm working at night or... they're not getting the attention and I'm acutely aware, I mean my eldest is 13, you know, how long have I got left with her at home? And I'm really, really conscious of that, hence the festival. So this year, me and my husband kind of decided that we were just gonna do everything to have a really fun year with the kids, because you know, Amelia now, she, you know, she's turning her nose up a bit, she doesn't want to spend her time with us. So we booked Bestival Indoor Sit. And to say that I was enthusiastic and excited was an understatement because it's everything I love. Socializing, music, dancing, know, everything in between. But, you know, it came quite apparent that I was the excited one and everyone else was begrudgingly, you know, humoring me. ⁓ So we've got a camper van. It's called Gino De Camper. ⁓ So we loaded him up, you know, bought myself a gold bomber jacket. Yes, I can do that at 46. you know, got the kids like LED lit up glasses, packed everything up and off we went. And I was energy level 10. And I said to the kids on the morning, are you excited? And they were like, mm. And I just thought in my head, I'm like, you ungrateful little sods. If I had this in my day, you don't know you're born. Literally running through everything that you said you wouldn't say as a parent, cause your kids, you know, your parents said it to you. Anyway, we got there. And they were so embarrassed and cringy for the first half of it. So I was singing, dancing, just getting involved, having fun. I took Amelia to Sarah Cox was there and she does a podcast called The Teen Commandments. And it's hilarious actually, but it's about yourself as a teenager and then what it's like to parent teens. me and Amelia, who's 13, went. We just had a right laugh. So she basically got everyone in the tent stand up and played a game of never have I ever. my God. So it started off really tame. Sit down if you have never taken money out of your mum's purse. Amelia stayed stood up. I looked at her. I was like, you kidding me? And she just laughed. Never have I ever tried some of my parents' alcohol. Again, she stayed stood up. And then it got a bit risky, like never have I ever got in trouble with the police. Never have I ever kind of got fruity in ⁓ my mum and dad's bed. But thank God I'd managed to sit down way before, because I sat down on never have I ever snogged a poster. So we didn't even have to cross any of those bridges. And Amelia was just looking at me as horrified, like, ⁓ my God, like you're a human, you've had a life. And it was at that point actually that it switched and my enthusiasm kind of rubbed off on everyone. And by the end of it, they had an absolutely fantastic time and we did make core memories. So back to the question of mum guilt, for me it's ever present. and I go up and down on the rollercoaster. Sometimes I'm winning it being a parent, sometimes I'm smashing it in business. But one thing I have learnt and one thing I think it's really important for my kids to see, because I do work away, so I'll go away for days. I always used to kind of be really apologetic about going away. I'm really going to miss you and can't wait to see you when I get back. all those types of things. And I thought, what am I actually teaching my kids by being like that? I'm teaching them that I don't enjoy what I do. I love what I do. So that's not true. ⁓ That you have to be with someone 24 seven for them to feel loved. That's not true either. So I noticed that pattern and one of my kids had said, ⁓ God, have you got to go away again for work? And in my mind I'm thinking, yeah, I'm staying in the Dakota hotel, going to the Ivy for my dinner. Going to spend time with colleagues that I love and respect and you know, we get a lot from having time together and I'm going to And Ian. Yeah, absolutely. And I'm going to, you know, spend time with members and they're all going to feed off each other and they're going to go away and they're going to be able to improve themselves in the business. And I get huge satisfaction from it. So I switched it up straight away and I started talking about how much I enjoy going away and what giving, you know, what work gives me. And I even started saying about the podcast and do you want to hear, cause I'd spoken about the kids, do you want to hear a bit of this podcast and underneath that, ⁓ God, you know, cringe. Amelia had actually told her mates and ⁓ when a friend came to stage like, ⁓ we've heard your podcast at school. I'm thinking, ⁓ my God, which one? But actually that's the right thing to do. I want to raise strong women. that enjoy what they do and want to add value. And I'm the person that's modeling that. So, you know, I have to do that from the front. So, yeah. speaker-1: So you feel guilty about being a great role model. speaker-2: No, but I think it is put into it as a woman. speaker-1: Yeah, I think it's probably more so for women, I would I would say. I think I don't and I don't think that's right actually, because I think in many respects, you know, if they've got a problem, who do they go to? It's often the mum as well. It certainly certainly is in our house because you're she's a better listener than I am. But but that you know, it it this is what I think social media and all of these different things. I I think the trouble is we're We're living in a very different age than the one we grew up in. So, you know, my mum and dad didn't have a business. They worked nine till five. My dad done shifts, he done nights. So, you know, for me, they didn't have this type of life. So when I was growing up, ⁓ my dad would often be in bed when I woke up because he's done night shifts. My mum was at work. You know it we we live in a world where we're very hard on ourselves. And I and and it's f it's funny, I bet you all had a really great time. And if it wasn't for your insistence and actually going, do you know what, we need to do something like this this year. Because funnily enough, we're going to ⁓ Carfest as a family, hiring a bloody great big thing that we can all sleep in. ⁓ and and you know you've got doing that is a memory that they're going to take with them. Telling her friends is the greatest sign at school that you're doing a podcast is her way of telling you that she's proud of you. Yeah. And do you know what we but we don't think about that. We think about I'm not doing enough. I'm not there enough. One of the things I think James and I touched on is that I think if if you if you say you're gonna be in something or doing something, just make sure you're in it and you're there and you're present. And I think beyond that They're seeing someone who works hard, enjoys what they do, has got a great energy about them. You're helping other people in the world, you're helping people navigate through different challenges, difficult moments. And you're able to also give them your ear, your time, your presence in the moments. Like one of the best things I do ⁓ when my boy isn't at his friend's house on a sleepover, is he always has a sleepover every night. He'd call it a sleepover. Basically it's me lying in bed with him for anything between ten minutes and ten hours if I fall asleep in the bed with him. ⁓ But years ago, and I was saying this to James, that you know, in the first six years of growing the business, I was very selfishly growing the business. Everything was related to driving and growing the business. And you know, the guilt that I felt was I wasn't in those special moments with my children and you know speaker-0: ⁓ speaker-1: even though I would go and watch plays and I would do all of the other stuff, I wasn't really there. I was checking my phone, I was thinking about, you know, X, Y, and Z. And I think sometimes you have to just like lean into the moments that you do have with them. And I think the festival for you, by the sounds of it, that will be like memories for life. And, you know, that is more important than just being around them. speaker-2: Yeah. speaker-1: And but you're you're not you're not actually there, if that makes sense. And you know, I think we're great examples of people that are cutting their way in a very difficult economic world at the moment, providing them with a life that we probably all never had when we were all growing up. And I'm speaking without knowing that for sure. Right. and you know, I yes, I've done things wrong. I probably haven't been around around enough at times, I probably have speaker-2: Yeah, that's speaker-1: of course felt guilt because even though you you're not the one that necessarily brought them into this world, they're still a part of you and you want to see them do well, you want to see them happy and everything else. But do you know real life is tough, isn't it? It is hard work. It is difficult choices. It's difficult moments. And I think the bit that I've tried to get right is for each of my children is to do something with them that I know or be around them. and do things with them that I know that they'll appreciate. So my middle one's you know, she's a bit of a character. Bless her little cot. She well but sh but, you know, she's she she gets the jokes that I share and there's there's there's those moments with her. And so I always more in tune with her in that sense. Jude, it's football and sleepovers and talking about West Ham, James speaker-0: From speaker-1: And then my eldest, she's an amazing cook and an amazing grown up. She's fifteen, but going on, she's nearly sixteen, but she's probably going on twenty one. She kind of parents us really to a degree. She's got very high standards and you know, she's a real credit and she's turning into a very beautiful, kind, ⁓ young lady. ⁓ you know, I know she doesn't want to s talk to me about women's stuff, you know. She she'll talk to her mum about that, but she might want to ask me about cooking a dinner or or something to do with music or whatever. And you know what? That's when I'll be in that moment with her. And I think, you know, we've got to I think the first thing is we've not got to give ourselves such a hard bloody time 'cause I've done that and it does that equally doesn't work. No. That's not worked for me more than just accepting the fact that what I am doing is giving them something that they'll remember, a great role model in life. to know that you have to work through and I've told them about the economic challenges two, three years ago and what that actually means and where we need to be a bit more careful or whatever. And, you know, I've told them that things are tough when they're tough and things are better when they're better. And actually Jess has got a horse, Michelle, and she's very much into her riding and jumping and she wants a horse in a year and she's finished her G C S E's and she's gonna go and earn money and put towards it and You know, ⁓ I I think we've just gotta not be so hard on ourselves, personally. speaker-0: I I really loved in your pod. You said there's ⁓ we talked about ⁓ the Instagram reels. We were obviously on the out parental algorithm where y you said there was a reel where ⁓ there is there's two two ladies sitting at a table in a cafe, like ⁓ talking to each other about their parents and their childhood. And you said on the podcast there, like, you know, what you know, what what's your story from your kids gonna be when they're at that cafe in that in that speaker-1: Two ladies. ⁓ speaker-0: And speaker-1: stranger about their upbringing, their home and speaker-0: What exactly that? What are they gonna say? What are they gonna remember? And then I think the other one I brought up was the you know, there's a there's a reel of an eighty year old grandparent, ⁓ like hugging their grandchild and remembering going back in time for a moment about what it was like to hold their child and for a second they're transported back to their twenty five, thirty, forty year old body of holding their child. And I think that speaker-1: But speaker-0: For me, that was really powerful for me, thinking like, you know, these moments like you said, Matt, where you're at the the theatre, ⁓ you know, like you said, Michelle, you you're you're there you're there, but you're not there, if that makes sense. And I think sometimes having something like that interrupting your day and making you think sometimes makes you think, hang hang on a minute, you know, I need to be here, I need to save this, I need to enjoy this because you know, your kids aren't gonna be nine and five forever. and that that time will pass quickly. And what just one quick thing that I picked up recently off another one of these reels and that it's amazed me ⁓ and it's really has hit hit home was when your child hugs you, don't let go until they let go and see how long they they will hug you for. And that that's I know it's so simple, but it's it's blown my mind. Like lit literally like speaker-1: Yeah. speaker-0: Recently I I've I've impl implemented that, like it's some kind of thing. and I've just been amazed at how long like my s my nine year old son, who doesn't really want that that much of a hug anymore, when he has hugged me, how long he's held on for. And the same with my five year old daughter, like 'cause you always quickly ⁓ hug, and then you're like you as a parent, you're almost like y you're there. ⁓ but then just that Ten, twenty you know, ten seconds turns into twenty seconds and sometimes turn into a minute. You anyone that is listening to this that's got kids of any age, like be the second one to let go and you'll be amazed at how long ⁓ they hold on for. ⁓ so that probably seems like a good place to call it, does it? speaker-1: You should do that with clients as well, Jay. Increase your conversion rate. What you gotta do? Well one of the things you need to do is when you get through the door, just give ⁓ a hug and then be the second one to let go. You never know. It might imagine that. Imagine speaker-0: Can I just say on that quickly, you've just you've just put something in my mind that I had a conversation with someone the other day about handshakes. Yeah. And having a proper handshake, like where, you know, not you're not gripping and trying to break their hand, but having a proper firm handshake and looking somebody in the eye when you greet them, like it it can tell you a lot about a person. And also, you know, I had it's a it was a client that brought it up. He says, ⁓ you've got a good handshake, lad. Like, ⁓ he was In his like mid sixties. Good handshake lad, you good good strong eye contact. I was like, okay, are you grooming me for your sex parties or something? But anyway, whatever. Not again. I know well listen, you've got to get the instruction right, Matt. It's got comparing the two percent speaker-2: Yeah, how have we ended up here? speaker-1: I don't know actually. This was talking about mum guilt and dad guilt and and that speaker-0: It was a lovely, lovely end to the podcast and then I just brought it back like to my ⁓ speaker-1: ⁓ can I take us back? 'Cause I think just very quickly, that that that video that I talked about hit me as well, that one that I said that that your kids will be talking to a stranger about or or you know, someone you don't know about their upbringing and and what will they say sort of thing. And that you know, I think again, it's it's not to make you feel guilty. It's actually I think it's actually a great reminder that we probably do a lot more in their lives than we think. And I think because we're geared around being so hard on ourselves and you could compare this to running a business. How many business owners are really tough on themselves? You've mentioned your client earlier, Michelle. He's really or she's really tough on they're really tough on themselves when they don't actually that doesn't work either, right? And ⁓ you know, I think these things are again perceptional reminders of of of, you know, we're good people. We're all good people. We're all good humans. We're doing our best in the world. Some days you get it right, some days you might not get it right. But I tell you what, on You're probably doing a lot more right than you realise. speaker-0: Yeah. That seems like a good place to call it. Matt, thanks so much. I've as always, I always enjoy our conversations. Thank you so much for giving up time and coming on with us today. speaker-2: Thank speaker-1: Yeah, and hugging a vendor to win you a a better speaker-0: Which bit of the sex party's bit? So yeah, top tip. Shake their hand really hard. Join the sex spot is speaker-2: Top tip. speaker-1: See if Pineapple nine six nine or whatever it was. Yeah. Pineapple nine six nine. speaker-0: Yes, speaking of sex pies. ⁓ speaker-1: See you both. Have a great day. speaker-0: If you've been living under a rock and you don't know who Matt Giggs is, ⁓ you you I'd be very surprised. But i ⁓ on the off chance that you don't, make sure you check out the second best industry podcast estate agency showdown with Matt Giggs. ⁓ he's on LinkedIn, ⁓ he's on YouTube, he's on Spotify, he's on Apple. He's a great guy. Michelle, Matt, thanks so much, and everyone, we'll see you next week. speaker-1: Take care guys. Thanks for inviting me on.