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The Price of Pretty: Exploring the Cost of Beauty Standards · She's On The Money

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Speaker 1: My name is Satasha Bamblet. I'm a proud First Nations
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Speaker 1: woman and I'm here to acknowledge country t Glenn youan Ganya, Niana,
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Speaker 1: Kaka yah Ya Binahwaka nian ar gay In, Nimbini, yak
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Speaker 1: um jar, domayagumika Umagahawakawaman damon Immalan Bumba bang gadaboma in
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Speaker 1: and now in waka ghana on yak rum jar Wattanadana. Hello,
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Speaker 1: beautiful friends, we gather on the lands of the Aboriginal people.
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Speaker 1: We thank acknowledge and respect the Aboriginal people's land that
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Speaker 1: we're gathering on today. Take pleasure in all the land
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Speaker 1: and respect all that you see. She's on the Money
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Speaker 1: podcast acknowledges culture, country, community and connections, bringing you the tools,
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Speaker 1: knowledge and resources for you to thrive.
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Speaker 2: She's on the Money. She's on the Money.
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Speaker 3: Hello and welcome to She's on the Money, the podcast
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Speaker 3: that takes a closer look at how we earn, save,
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Speaker 3: and spend our finances. My name is Beckside and joining
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Speaker 3: me today it's brilliant Jess Ricky. While Victoria's out getting
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Speaker 3: the scoop on extra special financial News. We'll be doing
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Speaker 3: a deep dive on a topic that affects a lot
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Speaker 3: of our community. It's a big one. We're talking the
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Speaker 3: cost of beauty standards. Whether we like it or not,
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Speaker 3: our society has some ideas about how women should look,
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Speaker 3: from treatments to products and double standards. We're exploring the
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Speaker 3: price of pretty. Gosh, jess, where do we begin.
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Speaker 2: I have lots of thoughts and feelings. I have so
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Speaker 2: many thoughts and feelings. I have a little bit of anger.
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Speaker 3: Okay, that's allowed.
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Speaker 2: We're going to work through it all in this episode.
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Speaker 2: But I did want to say right up the top,
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Speaker 2: I think it's important to say I we yes, fully
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Speaker 2: one one hundred percent support people doing whatever the heck
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Speaker 2: they want with their bodies. Absolutely, surgery, filler, piercings, tattoos,
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Speaker 2: if you're happy, I'm happy. That's not what this is about.
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Speaker 2: But I do think it's really important that we look
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Speaker 2: at these things with a bit of a critical eye
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Speaker 2: because I do really personally believe that it is driven
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Speaker 2: by a bit of a gendered lens. Yeah, a little
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Speaker 2: bit of patriarchy coming into play. And that's what I'm
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Speaker 2: excited to kind of unpack today, because not only does
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Speaker 2: it take a toll on us from a mental perspective,
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Speaker 2: but there is a real financial price that we're paying.
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Speaker 3: As well before we get into it, though.
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Speaker 2: Amazing. Welcome back to Shit's on the Money. This week,
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Speaker 2: we are getting into the particularly heated topic of the
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Speaker 2: cost of beauty standards. What first inspired this episode was
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Speaker 2: actually a comment from one of our community members, Laken,
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Speaker 2: who wrote, I really struggle with my investing and my
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Speaker 2: beauty goals. I often find that I am so torn
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Speaker 2: between do I invest more or do I save up
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Speaker 2: for big beauty treatments. I really hate that society's attitude
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Speaker 2: towards how women should look has impacted my perceptions so much,
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Speaker 2: and that I'm not investing as much as I should.
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Speaker 2: When this message got sent in our Yeah Team slack,
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Speaker 2: I was already livid. I'm so glad that this is
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Speaker 2: the episode that I got to join for.
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Speaker 1: Yeah.
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Speaker 2: This is a dilimma I think a lot of us
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Speaker 2: really struggle with.
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Speaker 3: I think it's a really good way for the two
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Speaker 3: of us, and you know, VD is out of town
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Speaker 3: and we can go rogue here. It's again one of
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Speaker 3: those episodes where maybe we have a substitute teacher we're
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Speaker 3: just watching a movie, it's raining outside, and we can
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Speaker 3: kind of just do whatever we want. But I think
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Speaker 3: it's also I think we're very much on the same
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Speaker 3: page in this area of the world. When it comes
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Speaker 3: to like societal anything, it's like, where did it come from,
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Speaker 3: why does it exist, and why we're paying the price
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Speaker 3: for something that is arbitrary, made up, plucked from thin air,
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Speaker 3: you know.
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Speaker 2: I think a good place to start is probably talking
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Speaker 2: about those beauty standards. Yes, who sets them, who sustains them.
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Speaker 2: I think they're really deeply tied to gender expectations. Yeah,
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Speaker 2: particularly around women being expected to look a certain way,
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Speaker 2: to be perceived a certain way.
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Speaker 3: I totally agree, and I think it is a shame
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Speaker 3: and it's something that I wish didn't exist because when
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Speaker 3: it comes to like gender issues and stuff, and I
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Speaker 3: know that, like still in twenty twenty six, even though
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Speaker 3: it's pretty obvious by now, there is a double standard
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Speaker 3: and there are unrealistic expectations. I think that everyone wants
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Speaker 3: to be heard and seen. I know that the same
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Speaker 3: thing applies for men, but we have to acknowledge that
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Speaker 3: it's probably a little bit like more strict for women.
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Speaker 3: So it's an uncomfortable thing to address, but I think
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Speaker 3: when it comes to like who sets and sustains these
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Speaker 3: social norms, I really want to talk about, Like also
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Speaker 3: in which social iteration are we talking? There have been
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Speaker 3: so many different types of social norms over the centuries, millennia, millenniums, whatever,
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Speaker 3: And I'm thinking, like, now, it's unfortunate we're in this one.
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Speaker 3: It's just completely made up, But here we are. We
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Speaker 3: have these social norms, and I think that like it really,
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Speaker 3: I mean, everyone is victim to beauty standards and things
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Speaker 3: like that, but I think that because we were born
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Speaker 3: women and we are women and we have an experience
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Speaker 3: as women, that we will probably talk a lot about
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Speaker 3: that today. But I'm sure there are men too who
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Speaker 3: have fallen vic to this as well.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, there's definitely pressure on men. I don't think they're finey,
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Speaker 2: but the financial and social burden still absolutely is falling
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Speaker 2: I think disproportionately on women, agreed, and statistically too, So
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Speaker 2: it's not just like, oh, I feel like, of course
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Speaker 2: we feel like we are women, but statistically speaking, like
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Speaker 2: when you look at the amount that maybe women spend
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Speaker 2: on this kind of thing and all that kind of
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Speaker 2: stuff and we can.
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Speaker 3: See that that actually is a thing. So let's talk
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Speaker 3: about like the double standards and how it's not only
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Speaker 3: double standards, it's like double stands when it comes to
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Speaker 3: men and women, but a lose lose situation one hundred percent.
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Speaker 2: Oh, And I think this is exactly what you were
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Speaker 2: kind of saying with how the goalposts have changed over time.
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Speaker 2: I think that is such a relevant point because even
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Speaker 2: within you know, our lifespan, within let's say the last
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Speaker 2: twenty to thirty years, think about how many trends. You know,
5:52
Speaker 2: when we were young, it was that heroin chic, you know,
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Speaker 2: how wood smokes a cigarette, hasn't eaten a thing a
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Speaker 2: day in their life kind of vibe. And then we
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Speaker 2: kind of moved into this phase where it was the
6:01
Speaker 2: curves are in, Kim Kardashian people getting bbls and all
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Speaker 2: those sorts of things. And then we're moving again back
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Speaker 2: into that cycle of the skin is in and it's
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Speaker 2: it's really scary to observe, but it's like, no matter
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Speaker 2: how you look, at some point in time, you're going
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Speaker 2: to be out of trend. And I think that's so
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Speaker 2: applicable to the expectations and the way that they then
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Speaker 2: play out whether you lean into them or not. You know,
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Speaker 2: if you care about how you look too much, your
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Speaker 2: main and if you don't care at all, she's so sloppy,
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Speaker 2: yes exactly. And it's like, you know, you'll hear like
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Speaker 2: guys be like I like a woman who's like natural
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Speaker 2: and stuff like that. But really if you had a
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Speaker 2: woman who's natural, it's like, oh no, not like that, Like, yeah,
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Speaker 2: you still have to be perfect to some extent, you
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Speaker 2: have to be like and also the you know, and
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Speaker 2: we'll get into it, but like aging, how there's a
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Speaker 2: big double standard there. It's like there's you're kind of
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Speaker 2: only relevant for a short window of time, and so
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Speaker 2: I think that like what's natural is very different to
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Speaker 2: what we are fair and so yeah, there is this
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Speaker 2: pressure to like to be like perfectly natural in the
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Speaker 2: most like unrealistic way, and that can really damage people's
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Speaker 2: like I don't know, the self esteem and yeah, you
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Speaker 2: at least targeted ads. You end up spending a lot
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Speaker 2: of money and before you know it, you're just like, yeah,
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Speaker 2: you're falling victim to this and you might have invested
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Speaker 2: so much in yeah, and it is such a double
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Speaker 2: stand it's really a shame. Yeah, I think a lot
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Speaker 2: of it. The thing that's really interesting to me is
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Speaker 2: how much of it is internalized. If I reflect on myself,
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Speaker 2: for example, I'm not the most confident person in the world,
7:33
Speaker 2: you know, but I try, and I think that I'm
7:35
Speaker 2: very conscious because we work in marketing. I'm very aware
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Speaker 2: of the tricks. I'm very aware of the trends. I
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Speaker 2: would consider myself pretty across those things. And yet I
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Speaker 2: really do still find myself falling victim to the marketing
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Speaker 2: and the pressures that are placed on us. You know,
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Speaker 2: I feel bad about myself, and then because of that,
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Speaker 2: I go, well, should I be doing this, or should
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Speaker 2: I be changing this? Or you should be looking like this?
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Speaker 2: And you get stuck in this loop totally. And I've
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Speaker 2: spoken about this before when we had Emma Edwards on
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Speaker 2: the show, and I said, the beauty industry and the
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Speaker 2: fashion industry really thrive on making women feel like shit
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Speaker 2: about themselves. Yeah, And I think that is so so true,
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Speaker 2: and a lot of the time we don't realize it's
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Speaker 2: happening because we are internalizing totally all of these external expectations,
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Speaker 2: all of these external standards. I would consider myself a feminist, strong,
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Speaker 2: independent woman, all of those fantastic things. But I can't
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Speaker 2: sit here and tell you with a straight face that
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Speaker 2: I haven't brought into all different kinds of trends in
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Speaker 2: the hopes that they would make me feel prettier, more appealing,
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Speaker 2: more intelligent, whatever that looks like. Sure, it's honestly a
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Speaker 2: really confronting thing to unpack it in the way that
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Speaker 2: we're going to today. Yes, I want to talk about
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Speaker 2: who sets their standards. So historically, traditional media, magazines, television, celebrities,
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Speaker 2: those sorts of things have been you know, the gold standard. Nowadays,
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Speaker 2: with social media, our exposure and expectations I think are
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Speaker 2: just blown out of the water. You know, we're seeing
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Speaker 2: idealistic and trend based beauty standards more frequently than ever.
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Speaker 2: Influencers are pushing trends, marketing teams are really leaning into
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Speaker 2: these things. Think about the aesthetics that we see on TikTok.
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Speaker 2: There was clean girl, then there was mob wife. Every
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Speaker 2: new aesthetic, every new trend comes with a series of
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Speaker 2: products or treatments that you should have, you know, the
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Speaker 2: bbl of it. All girls we're getting them, you know,
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Speaker 2: to look like Kim Kardashian or Cardi b or whoever,
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Speaker 2: and then all of a sudden, those people are pulling
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Speaker 2: them out. Really, is the everyday person in a position
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Speaker 2: financially to do that? What are the health implications of
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Speaker 2: doing those sorts of things. And again, I'm so pro
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Speaker 2: do whatever you want with your body, Like I don't
9:43
Speaker 2: want people to think that I'm criticizing people who get
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Speaker 2: work done or criticizing people who dye their hair or
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Speaker 2: do whatever, and really not. But I think that it's
9:53
Speaker 2: no longer just celebrities that we're comparing ourselves to. It's
9:56
Speaker 2: also our peers. And that means that the pressure is
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Speaker 2: just instant and it's not just our money that we're spending.
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Speaker 2: We pay the cost of the treatments, but also the
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Speaker 2: time that you spend in the appointments, the amount of
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Speaker 2: time that girls spend getting ready every day. You know,
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Speaker 2: the euphoria that sound by Cassie knew exactly who she
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Speaker 2: was from a young age, and she sent four hours
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Speaker 2: getting ready every morning. Like, yes, that's very crazy for
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Speaker 2: a lot of people.
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Speaker 3: That is so true.
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Speaker 2: For me to get up in the morning to get
10:21
Speaker 2: ready to come into the studio, it takes me maybe
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Speaker 2: half an hour and I think that's with me cutting
10:26
Speaker 2: that root right down. Yeah, that's a lot more time
10:28
Speaker 2: than my partner's spending getting ready. I can tell you
10:30
Speaker 2: that totally. I heard about this thing that Facebook were doing.
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Speaker 2: Facebook are doing this thing where.
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Speaker 3: Particularly teenage girls, and this is really messed up. You know,
10:41
Speaker 3: if you like post a photo and then you delete
10:44
Speaker 3: it after a little while, I would kind of do
10:45
Speaker 3: that if, like when I was a teenager, if I
10:47
Speaker 3: didn't get more than say two likes. Yeah, And so
10:52
Speaker 3: Facebook targeted teenage girls who they maybe noticed that they
10:56
Speaker 3: posted something and then deleted it. It could be anything,
10:59
Speaker 3: but usually it's like a picture of themselves. They're like, oh,
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Speaker 3: I actually don't like it anymore, and then they will
11:04
Speaker 3: be flooded with ads about weight loss, about a dead ass,
11:09
Speaker 3: I'm so serious and skincare products, all this kind of stuff,
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Speaker 3: and so targeting like vulnerable young women, men or people
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Speaker 3: who are just like not feeling good about themselves. And
11:21
Speaker 3: they knew that, and they were like, they're in the
11:22
Speaker 3: most vulnerable position. We're gonna like throw all this stuff
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Speaker 3: at them, which is insane. So I think that, yes,
11:28
Speaker 3: and now we do live in this time where, like
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Speaker 3: you know, social media, like the targeted ads and things
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Speaker 3: like that. And I know I've mentioned before, I'm like,
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Speaker 3: there is one thing dedicated to me and my wants
11:40
Speaker 3: and needs. I'm so stoked. But when it comes to
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Speaker 3: taking advantage of vulnerable people and people that maybe have
11:46
Speaker 3: a lower self esteem or people that are looking for
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Speaker 3: I don't know, ways to like find confidence in themselves,
11:54
Speaker 3: and then you're just being fed all of this stuff,
11:55
Speaker 3: it's it's it's wild. And but yeah, I just I
11:58
Speaker 3: just remembered that one thing, like men, I just know,
12:02
Speaker 3: and I'm guilty of it too, just like being like
12:05
Speaker 3: I really want to look better or feel better, and
12:09
Speaker 3: you google one thing and then you're just like flooded
12:14
Speaker 3: with all this all this informations, overload of information, and
12:18
Speaker 3: then before you know it, maybe you're a few hundred
12:20
Speaker 3: in the whole, yeah, and not actually feeling that much
12:23
Speaker 3: better about yourself.
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Speaker 2: Big companies have unlimited resources to dedicate to figuring out
12:28
Speaker 2: the best way to make people buy things totally. There
12:30
Speaker 2: are teams with psychologists and teams with people who their
12:33
Speaker 2: job is to go, well, how do we make people
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Speaker 2: feel a certain way? How do we elicit a certain
12:37
Speaker 2: response or feeling to then prompt somebody to take an action,
12:41
Speaker 2: with that action always being buying our product. Cosmetics and makeup,
12:45
Speaker 2: I think is a really good example of that. Traditionally,
12:47
Speaker 2: people may have want colors to know cultural affinity. Yeah,
12:50
Speaker 2: do you think about the beautiful the Maldi tattoos, things
12:53
Speaker 2: like that. It was an expression of culture. It also
12:56
Speaker 2: wasn't always gendered either, if you look back to Elizabethan
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Speaker 2: times and things like that, that the men also wore
13:01
Speaker 2: the wigs, the makeup, yeap, it was. You know, they
13:04
Speaker 2: were doing just as much as maybe not just as much,
13:06
Speaker 2: but you know a lot. Yes, fast forward to today,
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Speaker 2: there's a lot of judgment around who wears what, what
13:14
Speaker 2: kind of impression that gives those people who isn't isn't
13:17
Speaker 2: allowed to wear it.
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Speaker 3: I often think like chicken all the egg when it
13:21
Speaker 3: comes to this kind of situation, you know, like I
13:25
Speaker 3: think a lot of things are completely arbitrary. I don't
13:28
Speaker 3: know why men stopped wearing makeup, men used to wear
13:30
Speaker 3: high heels, Like I wonder where that stopped or what
13:32
Speaker 3: happened there. But when it comes to like, you know,
13:35
Speaker 3: the whole double stands when it comes to aging, it's
13:38
Speaker 3: like men are silver foxes and a man who is
13:42
Speaker 3: like twenty years older than a woman. That's just like
13:44
Speaker 3: a normal relationship. A woman who's one second older than
13:47
Speaker 3: a man is a cougar or whatever. And so I think, like,
13:50
Speaker 3: I wonder if it like at some point when men
13:52
Speaker 3: stopped wearing makeup and it was like the pressures on
13:55
Speaker 3: women to maintain a youthful quote unquote look that never
14:00
Speaker 3: really faded. It's like, is that when women were kind
14:04
Speaker 3: of like seen as less I really need to stress
14:09
Speaker 3: that all of this is in quotes like less valuable
14:12
Speaker 3: as they age, and men quite the opposite.
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Speaker 2: Do you know what I mean.
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Speaker 3: I'm like, is it chicken or the egg? Where women
14:18
Speaker 3: full like kind of pressured to look a certain way
14:22
Speaker 3: and then this started happening. It is interesting to know
14:25
Speaker 3: that men were kind of participating in this as well
14:29
Speaker 3: at a certain point in time.
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Speaker 2: The chicken in the egg thing is really hard because
14:32
Speaker 2: you know, when I think about makeup for me, it's
14:34
Speaker 2: it's that idea of is it self expression or is
14:37
Speaker 2: it as well? Because I know I personally hate your
14:41
Speaker 2: own foundation. I find it so heavy. I don't like
14:43
Speaker 2: the feeling of it on my skin. I tend to
14:45
Speaker 2: opt out of that. But I also have friends who
14:48
Speaker 2: feel so good and so confident and so happy when
14:51
Speaker 2: they've got a full beat, and they love doing a
14:53
Speaker 2: crazy eyeshadow look and using all these bright colored lipsticks
14:56
Speaker 2: and gorgeous. For them, that's their form of self expression,
14:59
Speaker 2: which I think is it's very positive. But it's interesting
15:03
Speaker 2: to think about the fact, well, do we feel good
15:06
Speaker 2: having the makeup on because we think it makes us
15:08
Speaker 2: look the way we should? Or do we think it
15:10
Speaker 2: makes us look more appealing?
15:12
Speaker 4: Yeah?
15:13
Speaker 2: Do you think that it is just a fun way
15:15
Speaker 2: for us to show who we are. It's a really
15:18
Speaker 2: hard line to draw, and again, like reflecting on my
15:21
Speaker 2: own journey because I don't want to speak for anyone else,
15:23
Speaker 2: but I think this branches out into for me the
15:26
Speaker 2: fashion space as well. It's like, well, I like clothes,
15:29
Speaker 2: and I like finding out fits that feel like me.
15:31
Speaker 2: But then I go, but am I buying into the
15:34
Speaker 2: trends and buying into these things because I think it
15:36
Speaker 2: makes me look like a certain kind of person or
15:38
Speaker 2: feel a certain type of way.
15:39
Speaker 3: I do think there is a pressure on women, and
15:43
Speaker 3: I think it's definitely possible for both to be true.
15:46
Speaker 3: That it does make you feel good and all this
15:48
Speaker 3: kind of stuff. But really also when it comes to working,
15:53
Speaker 3: and I would always get this when I worked in
15:56
Speaker 3: an office, I was always everyone would laugh because they
15:59
Speaker 3: said that I had quote unquote a uniform. Because the
16:02
Speaker 3: other women, they would come in every day with beautiful
16:05
Speaker 3: new outfits. Not always knew they would recycle them obviously,
16:08
Speaker 3: but like maybe one you would see every fortnight, and
16:11
Speaker 3: they just always had different clothes every day. And I'm like,
16:14
Speaker 3: but everyone knew me as someone who quote unquote had
16:17
Speaker 3: a uniform. And I'm looking around at all the men
16:20
Speaker 3: wearing the exact same white shirt, the exact same suit pants,
16:23
Speaker 3: the exact same shoes every single day. There was no changing.
16:27
Speaker 3: They didn't have a uniform. I had a uniform because
16:30
Speaker 3: I did the exact same thing as them. And so
16:33
Speaker 3: there's a lot of pressure of like, you know, I
16:36
Speaker 3: cannot wear the same thing every single day. I'm not
16:39
Speaker 3: worried about it. I actually just like it's an uncomfortable thing.
16:42
Speaker 3: But I'm like, I don't care. I'm gonna wear the
16:43
Speaker 3: same thing every day. But we're really are shown in
16:46
Speaker 3: everyday life, you got have changed up. You can't wear
16:49
Speaker 3: the same thing every day. It's really it's almost like
16:50
Speaker 3: embarrassing to wear the same thing every day. You can't
16:53
Speaker 3: wear the same wedding dress to one wedding then where
16:56
Speaker 3: it's the next wedding, it's like a man just needs
16:58
Speaker 3: to buy a suit. I don't know, maybe I'm wrong.
17:00
Speaker 2: No, you're totally right. And I think those expectations in
17:03
Speaker 2: the workplace, especially like you were saying, are really interesting
17:05
Speaker 2: because I know that I've signed contracts historically when I
17:08
Speaker 2: worked corporate that said I must turn up to work presentably,
17:13
Speaker 2: and it's specified that meant with makeup done, with hair done,
17:17
Speaker 2: with nails done.
17:18
Speaker 3: It's like, crazy, are you.
17:19
Speaker 2: Paying my bills? Totally, And then there's the whole conversation
17:23
Speaker 2: around as well. You mentioned the natural makeup look. Men
17:26
Speaker 2: love a natural makeup. When I went to an office,
17:28
Speaker 2: the natural makeup is what would be deemed appropriate. The
17:32
Speaker 2: natural makeup, in quotation marks is often very lengthy, Yeah,
17:37
Speaker 2: very expensive, very time consuming to put together. Every day.
17:41
Speaker 2: It's like, well, you want to look natural, let me
17:43
Speaker 2: just turn up as they look. Yes, exactly, why am
17:47
Speaker 2: I contractually obliged to turn up looking like your perception
17:51
Speaker 2: of a put together person? Not to mention all of
17:55
Speaker 2: the bias and the racial profiling. Yeah, that then underlies
17:59
Speaker 2: all of those things as well.
18:00
Speaker 3: I think I do have a bit of like the
18:02
Speaker 3: luxury I guess like quote unquote, of being more of
18:04
Speaker 3: like a masculine presenting woman. I'm not subject to the
18:08
Speaker 3: male gaze because I don't care about the male gays.
18:09
Speaker 3: I've never felt it. I don't know what it feels like.
18:12
Speaker 3: I'm just kind of living as a woman in a
18:14
Speaker 3: woman's world. And so I also don't wear makeup because
18:20
Speaker 3: I and I never really have. It's ridiculous that that's
18:23
Speaker 3: like a luxury for me to not wear makeup.
18:25
Speaker 2: It's absurd.
18:26
Speaker 3: It's absurd. It's like it should be like acceptable to
18:28
Speaker 3: every single person everywhere in the entire world. But I
18:31
Speaker 3: don't wear makeup, and so I could be wrong, but
18:33
Speaker 3: I think that like for that more like natural that's
18:37
Speaker 3: probably more like a high quality, very expensive type of makeup.
18:41
Speaker 3: It's very specific. It's like you it's like a second skin.
18:44
Speaker 3: Like that doesn't sound cheap at all, No.
18:46
Speaker 2: And I think it I come back to that conversation
18:48
Speaker 2: that Victoria mentions a lot around lifestyle creep and around
18:50
Speaker 2: as we get older and as we have more disposable income.
18:52
Speaker 2: We graduate maybe from you know, supermarket makeup products a
18:56
Speaker 2: price my makeup products to Meca makeup products, and I
18:58
Speaker 2: get more and more expensive as you go. And I
19:00
Speaker 2: think this is the other really significant implication of social
19:03
Speaker 2: media because I have a niece. I have two nieces,
19:06
Speaker 2: but the older one is your eight this year, and
19:10
Speaker 2: I am observing in real time the impact that social
19:13
Speaker 2: media is having on her self, perception, on her buying habits,
19:18
Speaker 2: on all those sorts of things. You know, she's thirteen,
19:20
Speaker 2: fourteen years old, and it's the Sephora Kids of it all.
19:24
Speaker 2: It's a big joke, but really, what the baddy industry
19:28
Speaker 2: has done is they've opened up a whole new market.
19:30
Speaker 2: When I was thirteen, fourteen years old, I was not
19:33
Speaker 2: allowed to wear makeup. I remember fighting my mum to
19:36
Speaker 2: shave my legs because she thought that that was something
19:38
Speaker 2: that you're too young, you don't need to really, I
19:41
Speaker 2: was like, mom, I feel like a wooly mammoth. Please,
19:43
Speaker 2: But do you know what I mean? Like that was
19:45
Speaker 2: not a thing. Whereas now my niece can log onto
19:48
Speaker 2: any social media platform. Yes there are age restrictions, and
19:50
Speaker 2: yes I do back them up, but like, let's be honest,
19:52
Speaker 2: they're getting around them, you know, and people are showing
19:55
Speaker 2: these huge makeup collections with expensive products for her birthdays
19:59
Speaker 2: and Christmas is she's asking for beauty and skincare. She's like, oh,
20:02
Speaker 2: I'd love a retinal. I'm like, babe, you have skin
20:04
Speaker 2: that I would kill for. Nobody's buying you retinal. That's
20:07
Speaker 2: crazy brands. This new world, this new market has opened
20:11
Speaker 2: up because those kids, they're getting money from their parents,
20:14
Speaker 2: they're getting money from their aunties. They're buying these things
20:18
Speaker 2: that they don't need. You know, I'm not going to
20:21
Speaker 2: sit here and say when I was young, I didn't
20:22
Speaker 2: want to be older and mature and cool, but I
20:25
Speaker 2: just didn't have the access or the pressure that they
20:28
Speaker 2: do now. And to hear her talk about how kids
20:32
Speaker 2: get made fun of because they don't have the name
20:34
Speaker 2: brand things or crazy you know, she has a collection
20:37
Speaker 2: a really popular example for anyone who's got girls, the
20:40
Speaker 2: sold Asian Arrow, the body Spray Miss. Yeah, they all
20:43
Speaker 2: want to collect those. They're like fifty bucks pop and
20:47
Speaker 2: there's like a dog during me, Like they're growing these
20:49
Speaker 2: collections of products they don't really need that are costing
20:54
Speaker 2: them or the people around them hundreds, if not thousands
20:57
Speaker 2: of dollars for what. And the last thing I want
21:01
Speaker 2: to say on that note, I guess is just the
21:03
Speaker 2: trend cycle of it all, which again is very social media,
21:07
Speaker 2: and I don't want to seem like social media. I
21:08
Speaker 2: love social media. I love a little bit of mouse
21:10
Speaker 2: time on my TikTok. We exist on social media. I
21:12
Speaker 2: think there's a lot of positive things happening there, but
21:14
Speaker 2: it is also driving these trends. And for brands it's
21:17
Speaker 2: great because they can capitalize on that virality, that momentum
21:21
Speaker 2: to sell us products and products and products. How many
21:24
Speaker 2: people are listening right now that have more than ten
21:27
Speaker 2: lip products? Because I know I do, Okay, flipstick, slip glosses,
21:31
Speaker 2: I've got at all. This is a personal challenge for
21:33
Speaker 2: myself at the moment. I'm not allowed to buy any
21:35
Speaker 2: more until I use up some of what I've got. Yeah,
21:38
Speaker 2: because like you only have one set of lips? True,
21:40
Speaker 2: how many clocks are you a couple? I'm really applying lips,
21:58
Speaker 2: got you?
21:58
Speaker 1: Got you?
21:59
Speaker 3: Okay, gotcha?
22:00
Speaker 2: I'm only using if I am using, you know, a
22:03
Speaker 2: foundational conciller. I'm using one at a time, totally so
22:06
Speaker 2: much product waste that's competing to the world. There's so
22:08
Speaker 2: much money, and because you're buying them incidentally, like you're, oh, well,
22:12
Speaker 2: I want to buy the new trendy the road tinted
22:16
Speaker 2: lip treatment and nearly fel affectim to that very proud
22:18
Speaker 2: of myself that I didn't.
22:19
Speaker 3: Proud of you.
22:20
Speaker 2: That's forty dollars. Forty dollars a year.
22:22
Speaker 3: That's forty dollars.
22:23
Speaker 2: By the end of the year, you have spent thousands
22:26
Speaker 2: and thousands and thousands of dollars on products that you're
22:29
Speaker 2: probably not going to finish before they expire, and you
22:33
Speaker 2: don't even realize it's happening.
22:34
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I see, that's so wild. I did fall
22:39
Speaker 3: victim to the red light face mask.
22:41
Speaker 2: Oh I do really want one of those. I know,
22:43
Speaker 2: what do you go on? I did.
22:45
Speaker 3: It was a while ago, and I have I've only
22:46
Speaker 3: just really started using it because for those who don't know,
22:49
Speaker 3: I'm going through breakup and so I'm trying to like
22:50
Speaker 3: rejig my whole life and so I'm like, let me
22:52
Speaker 3: pull that out of the woodwork. I think, can you
22:55
Speaker 3: see difference?
22:56
Speaker 2: I mean, your skin always has looks nice.
22:58
Speaker 3: Thank you so much. That's really sweet. It probably takes
23:01
Speaker 3: a few weeks, but you can use mine if you like.
23:02
Speaker 3: I think they try before you buy because they are
23:05
Speaker 3: quite expensive, and so I think, yeah, do you have it?
23:08
Speaker 3: Like even like people that you know. I'm not really
23:10
Speaker 3: a make up girly, but anyone can fall victim to
23:12
Speaker 3: these kind of things, and who knows, in my work
23:14
Speaker 3: you might not. But watch this space how I'm really
23:18
Speaker 3: selling a product on a beauty standards podcast that we're
23:23
Speaker 3: really described Sarony is not lost.
23:25
Speaker 1: I know.
23:26
Speaker 3: I'm so sorry. Everyone, ignore all of that.
23:28
Speaker 2: We're gonna take a quick break, reset, refresh, eyes on
23:31
Speaker 2: the prize. We've got a lot more to unload on
23:34
Speaker 2: you guys, just so don't go anywhere.
23:39
Speaker 3: Welcome back everyone. Hay's episode is I think one of
23:43
Speaker 3: my favorites. It's a really interesting one where unpacking the
23:46
Speaker 3: I guess, like the beauty standards societal expectations for men
23:50
Speaker 3: and women, but statistically maybe societally mostly women, and.
23:54
Speaker 2: The cost of that.
23:55
Speaker 3: I forgot how it related to finance because I'm just
23:58
Speaker 3: so obsessed with the societal side of it. I really
24:00
Speaker 3: want to talk about because before the break, we'll discussing
24:03
Speaker 3: body hair and things like that. And you were talking
24:06
Speaker 3: about how you would ask your mum if you can
24:07
Speaker 3: shave your legs, and I certainly did the same thing,
24:10
Speaker 3: but I wonder how many boys, and I'm sure there
24:12
Speaker 3: were for sure, we're kind of thinking, Oh, I'd love
24:15
Speaker 3: to shave my legs because I feel really like a
24:17
Speaker 3: wooly mambeth. I'm getting teased for my hairy legs. Yeah,
24:19
Speaker 3: it's just very normal for men to have hairy legs,
24:22
Speaker 3: hairy armpits. It is interesting. I don't shave my legs anymore.
24:26
Speaker 3: As you know, I very rarely shave our armpits too.
24:29
Speaker 3: And I know it's like because it's we don't see it.
24:32
Speaker 3: That's the only difference between men and women is that
24:34
Speaker 3: we don't see it on women as much. And that's
24:36
Speaker 3: why it's so jarring. It's almost like, if you didn't
24:40
Speaker 3: know me, you'd put me into a box. If you
24:41
Speaker 3: saw my hair, legs, my hairy armpits, whatever, you'd be like, oh,
24:44
Speaker 3: she's one of those you know, very like left, which
24:49
Speaker 3: is true, but almost like you know, you might just
24:52
Speaker 3: have a different image of me. But it's the only
24:55
Speaker 3: difference is that we just don't see it as much,
24:57
Speaker 3: but we all have the same body hair, and it
24:59
Speaker 3: is therefo.
25:00
Speaker 2: It's questionable to me, I'm gonna go down a conspiracy
25:04
Speaker 2: hole if I'm not careful. But the fact that, like,
25:07
Speaker 2: there are some parts of us obviously that women expect
25:09
Speaker 2: you to care for and groom and have lushes, like
25:11
Speaker 2: the hair on our head, the hair, eyebrows, et cetera.
25:14
Speaker 2: But then the rest of our body. It's like they
25:16
Speaker 2: want us to be sphinx cats. I totally agree. Is
25:18
Speaker 2: that's so weird?
25:19
Speaker 3: I should really quickly just call myself out. This doesn't
25:22
Speaker 3: apply to it like people with alopecia or if you
25:24
Speaker 3: struggle to grow body hair or hair in general. I
25:27
Speaker 3: totally know what you mean. It's like the yeah, the eyebrows,
25:31
Speaker 3: the eyelashes, the head hair, and then god.
25:34
Speaker 2: For beard, A woman have a bush, That's all I'm saying.
25:37
Speaker 3: I know absolutely some people do like it. So it's
25:40
Speaker 3: like it depends on the personal You better be a
25:44
Speaker 3: mind reader. You better make sure that you know exactly
25:46
Speaker 3: who you're about to meet and what their personal likes are.
25:48
Speaker 3: Because some people like a bush, some people don't like
25:50
Speaker 3: a bush. Some people want short hair some people. It's
25:52
Speaker 3: like it's like, let us be, let us live. You know,
25:56
Speaker 3: it's just hair, it's hair.
25:57
Speaker 2: Who cares. I'm interested to know that standard came from.
26:01
Speaker 3: I know, I'm really interested. I don't know.
26:04
Speaker 2: I feel like it leans into that again, that ageism
26:07
Speaker 2: that we were talking about before. They like women to
26:09
Speaker 2: appear youthful, almost pre pubescent somebody and do what makes
26:15
Speaker 2: you feel good? Like, am I gonna sit here and
26:16
Speaker 2: tell you when i't get a breaslian? No, I'm not.
26:17
Speaker 2: But it's like again, like that's me internalizing expectations and pressures.
26:23
Speaker 2: Like I remember when I was I would have been
26:25
Speaker 2: like eighteen, and I bought a thousand dollar laser pack.
26:29
Speaker 2: It was like ten solser was really new. Yeah, it
26:32
Speaker 2: was like ten things. It was like one hundred dollars
26:34
Speaker 2: per laser session, which is actually not a bad deal,
26:36
Speaker 2: I feel like, but ae thousand dollars to me at
26:40
Speaker 2: that point in my life was an astronomical amount of
26:44
Speaker 2: money totally, and I felt like it was worth spending
26:48
Speaker 2: it on laser to be hairless. Yeah, And it's again
26:52
Speaker 2: like do what you want with your body? Do I
26:54
Speaker 2: still shave? Yes, I do, But I was prioritizing that expectation,
27:01
Speaker 2: that perception of what people would see when they were
27:03
Speaker 2: you know, and I will say, well, that's more worth
27:06
Speaker 2: it than my financial stability. Yeah. Should I have had
27:09
Speaker 2: a thousand dollars in emergency find Absolutely? I like this
27:12
Speaker 2: is at the point of my life when I was
27:13
Speaker 2: coming back from holidays with literally no money. And so
27:16
Speaker 2: it's interesting because I think that these expectations then sometimes
27:19
Speaker 2: put us in positions where we're making choices that are
27:22
Speaker 2: not good for future us. Yes, to bring it back
27:24
Speaker 2: around to the original message we got from Liken, you
27:26
Speaker 2: shouldn't feel bad about prioritizing putting financial youth first.
27:30
Speaker 3: Totally. We encourage you and anyone listening to investigate where
27:36
Speaker 3: these feelings are coming from. Like I like to think
27:38
Speaker 3: of it like if there was no one else on
27:39
Speaker 3: this planet, Yeah, would you be doing the same things?
27:43
Speaker 3: Would you kind of be like, Ah, I don't care
27:45
Speaker 3: who cares.
27:46
Speaker 2: I don't shave my legs as much in winter asnyone's
27:47
Speaker 2: looking at my legs, And that is the perfect totally exactly.
27:51
Speaker 3: I'm so curious about why barbers and regular like women
27:55
Speaker 3: get a trim and men get a trim and I
27:58
Speaker 3: just I mean, I haven't really been my addresser, but
28:00
Speaker 3: one is way more expensive for the exact same thing.
28:02
Speaker 3: That's very confusing to me.
28:04
Speaker 2: I agree, Well, we're on the topic of the hair.
28:05
Speaker 2: The one other thing I do want to say, yes,
28:07
Speaker 2: we kind of alluded to it earlier, was a little
28:10
Speaker 2: bit of racial profiling. Feel goes into things as well.
28:14
Speaker 2: We talk about there's a certain perception of what is
28:16
Speaker 2: polished or put together or appropriate in the workplace, and
28:20
Speaker 2: more often than not, those things are not conducive to
28:23
Speaker 2: textured hairstyles people who do have cultural tattoos or things
28:28
Speaker 2: of that nature. And I think that these standards that
28:32
Speaker 2: we are fed most of the time are very white leaning.
28:36
Speaker 2: To call a space made. Yes, yes, I think that
28:40
Speaker 2: there are so many people diversity is so beautiful. People
28:43
Speaker 2: looking different, feeling different, embracing who they are is such
28:46
Speaker 2: a wonderful thing, and I think it's really sad. I
28:50
Speaker 2: think about a lot of Asian cultures where whitening products
28:53
Speaker 2: are super popular. In our culture, tanning products are super popular,
28:56
Speaker 2: So we're all chasing something that isn't who we are. Yeah,
29:01
Speaker 2: and again, if it makes you feel good, I'm not
29:03
Speaker 2: going to sit here and say don't do it. But
29:06
Speaker 2: the goalpost is always moving away from us. Yeah, Like
29:09
Speaker 2: we're never going to get there, and so we're constantly
29:11
Speaker 2: going to be spending our money on these products to
29:14
Speaker 2: help us get a.
29:15
Speaker 3: Little bit closer.
29:16
Speaker 2: Yeah. And I feel like I'm being very doom and
29:18
Speaker 2: gl in this episode that I'm so no true. I
29:21
Speaker 2: love it, but I do have to.
29:22
Speaker 3: Port to tackle another area of like beauty stands and
29:26
Speaker 3: things like that, things that are more like I guess
29:28
Speaker 3: like beauty within, you know, supplements and things that we take.
29:32
Speaker 3: Like I used to be big on new tropics, which
29:35
Speaker 3: is not the same as you know, changing my skin
29:38
Speaker 3: or my appearance, but things that we think will help.
29:42
Speaker 3: And you know, there are some things out there that
29:43
Speaker 3: are great, but have you taken something that you thought
29:45
Speaker 3: would like enhance your appearance or your beauty or maybe
29:49
Speaker 3: your hair or something like that.
29:51
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think wellness is like a rapidly growing space.
29:54
Speaker 2: It's like you can take collage and for your skin,
29:56
Speaker 2: you can take hair and nail growth tablets, and there's
30:00
Speaker 2: the jury is definitely out on how effective these things are.
30:03
Speaker 2: Sometimes they might have the right ingredient, but it's not
30:05
Speaker 2: able to be absorbed orally, or it's not in the
30:07
Speaker 2: right proportion, or it's not the right type. There's lots
30:10
Speaker 2: of different things. I will say as I get older,
30:13
Speaker 2: I'm definitely happy to pay for things that fix my
30:15
Speaker 2: problems I think about, like, I'm a stomach issues girly
30:19
Speaker 2: and so you know, if there are supplements that can
30:21
Speaker 2: help with that, great, But I think a lot of
30:24
Speaker 2: it is also the aesthetic of it all, you know,
30:25
Speaker 2: and it is sold as a wellness category item that
30:29
Speaker 2: does lean into how you look. You know, these girls
30:31
Speaker 2: that are selling these products, they're not blurted. They have clear,
30:34
Speaker 2: beautiful skin, and they're skinny and they're happy and they're healthy.
30:37
Speaker 2: And if you just take this vitamin three times a day,
30:39
Speaker 2: you can feel like that too. And I just think
30:42
Speaker 2: a lot of it is not backed by science, and
30:44
Speaker 2: it's not regulated as tightly as it should be. Yeah,
30:47
Speaker 2: because we don't have proof a lot of the time
30:50
Speaker 2: that these things, particularly the beauty focused supplements, that they
30:54
Speaker 2: are successful, that they do work.
30:56
Speaker 3: Obviously I shouldn't be talking about another podcast or or
30:58
Speaker 3: on this podcast, but there was a Science Versus episode
31:02
Speaker 3: about skin care and things of this nature. You know,
31:05
Speaker 3: collagen taking orally and whatever else. And I just found
31:09
Speaker 3: it really interesting because I think I think there are
31:11
Speaker 3: a lot of things we might realize they don't like
31:14
Speaker 3: break the blood brain barrier, or they don't break the
31:17
Speaker 3: skin something barrier, Like a lot of products out there
31:21
Speaker 3: really are kind of useless and so we.
31:25
Speaker 2: Want to believe.
31:25
Speaker 3: And that's okay too, because sometimes placebo is just as
31:27
Speaker 3: effective as the real thing. But yeah, when I think
31:30
Speaker 3: when it comes to what we're buying and what we're taking,
31:33
Speaker 3: the not only figuring out if the product is useful
31:36
Speaker 3: or if it's you know, good quality or whatever, but
31:39
Speaker 3: I think first step is to investigate why we want
31:42
Speaker 3: to do that and what it's really bringing to us.
31:44
Speaker 3: Are we doing it for ourselves, we're doing it for
31:46
Speaker 3: everyone else? What are we doing it for? It's going
31:49
Speaker 3: to be a slow journey. It's not going to change
31:51
Speaker 3: over night to unlearn years and years a lifetime of
31:54
Speaker 3: brainwashing almost from like society. But I think just investigating
31:59
Speaker 3: that is a really good first step.
32:01
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, last space in the Beauty Wellness upkeep if
32:07
Speaker 2: you will that I wanted to tackle was cosmetic procedures.
32:10
Speaker 2: I think a lot of them today are marketed as
32:14
Speaker 2: upkeep or preventative. Have you heard of preventive botox? And
32:18
Speaker 2: it's like, that's like, that's just botox, Like there's nothing
32:22
Speaker 2: preventive about it. You're just getting botox, but we're marketing
32:24
Speaker 2: and packaging it up in a more palatable way, sure
32:27
Speaker 2: to encourage people maybe to use it younger. Things of
32:30
Speaker 2: that nature. I think again to reiterate, people should have
32:33
Speaker 2: total autonomy over their bodies. We're not questioning that absolutely,
32:37
Speaker 2: but I do think we should be questioning why we
32:38
Speaker 2: are pressuring women to appear younger and younger and younger.
32:41
Speaker 2: These treatments are really normalized on social media. But again
32:44
Speaker 2: it's damned if you do, and damned if you don't.
32:47
Speaker 2: Like I've seen creators you have. Victoria's spoken about getting
32:50
Speaker 2: botox on her Instagram very publically, and it's you know,
32:54
Speaker 2: I think, on one hand, it's really great that people
32:56
Speaker 2: are transparent, because when we would look at celebrities or
32:58
Speaker 2: influencers of these people, you go, well, why don't I
33:01
Speaker 2: look like them? And yeah, but maybe they don't look
33:03
Speaker 2: like them either, And so I think transparency is really positive.
33:07
Speaker 2: But the double edge of the sword is that you're
33:09
Speaker 2: exposed to things that maybe you hadn't know you needed
33:12
Speaker 2: to tweak totally. I never thought anything was wrong with
33:15
Speaker 2: my eyelids until all of a sudden I decided one
33:17
Speaker 2: day that I needed an upper bless because everyone's talking
33:20
Speaker 2: about it. Yeah, but I finds such a funny word
33:22
Speaker 2: is that the is the eyelid thing which I haven't
33:24
Speaker 2: had obviously, but I got you got you got your
33:26
Speaker 2: go but new insecurity unlocked. Yeah, because it was all
33:29
Speaker 2: everybody on my social media feed was talking about. Yes,
33:32
Speaker 2: and so it's a real catchweage you because again, if
33:34
Speaker 2: people are transparent or if they're not transparent, I think
33:36
Speaker 2: the impact ultimately is negative no matter what. That's not
33:39
Speaker 2: necessarily the responsibility of any individual, but it is the
33:43
Speaker 2: flow on effect of well, what impact does that they
33:46
Speaker 2: have on all of us as consumers this space?
33:50
Speaker 3: Absolutely, there is like no winning here because nothing makes
33:54
Speaker 3: me sicker and more like angry than when, like you,
33:58
Speaker 3: let's say we're watching a TV show and someone has
34:02
Speaker 3: has had work done. It's like they in their perception,
34:05
Speaker 3: they look beautiful, and I think that literally what we're
34:09
Speaker 3: always told that's all that matters is that you feel beautiful.
34:11
Speaker 3: And someone saying that like they look quote unquote plastic,
34:15
Speaker 3: or they're just like people receiving hate for doing things
34:18
Speaker 3: to their body or to their face or whatever is
34:20
Speaker 3: the most diabolical thing. Because yeah, I'm sorry, but the
34:24
Speaker 3: world has told them that they need to look a
34:26
Speaker 3: certain way. They went and did that, and they made
34:29
Speaker 3: themselves feel beautiful. So there's no even if they if
34:32
Speaker 3: they followed the route of do what makes you feel
34:35
Speaker 3: beautiful and they did that, they didn't win follow the
34:38
Speaker 3: route of this is what will make you beautiful and
34:40
Speaker 3: they did that. It's like the world is telling these
34:43
Speaker 3: people to do all these different things, or maybe they're
34:45
Speaker 3: just living for themselves. I think either way, commenting on
34:48
Speaker 3: what someone else is doing with their own body diabolical.
34:51
Speaker 3: Don't do it completely agree it's ridiculous. We just want
34:55
Speaker 3: everyone to investigate where, why, how, when, where are these
34:58
Speaker 3: ideas coming from, and just know if it's societal, if
35:03
Speaker 3: it's arbitrary, we can release them, we can release them.
35:07
Speaker 2: And really were whatever makes you feel good is important exactly,
35:10
Speaker 2: but also you are beautiful and wonderful and smart and
35:14
Speaker 2: capable and worthy of being exactly as you are. And
35:18
Speaker 2: I know that it's a really hard balance to find
35:21
Speaker 2: but we believe in you.
35:22
Speaker 3: We have so much to say in this face, and
35:23
Speaker 3: I think it's really nice that we were allowed to
35:25
Speaker 3: do this episode. So thank you all for staying with
35:28
Speaker 3: us this whole time. Before we wrap it up, we
35:30
Speaker 3: asked you guys on Instagram what was and wasn't worth
35:33
Speaker 3: spending on? And the clearest overarching theme is that women,
35:36
Speaker 3: becoming far more intentional about beauty spending, are increasingly prioritizing
35:41
Speaker 3: things that feel functional, confidence building, preventative, or time saving
35:45
Speaker 3: over purely aesthetic or trended driven purchases. The category is
35:49
Speaker 3: most consistently considered worth it were good skincare, sunscreen, evidence
35:54
Speaker 3: based or medically formulated products, hair appointments, botox, brow treatments,
36:00
Speaker 3: and some laser treatments, particularly when they improved confidence, reduced maintenance,
36:05
Speaker 3: or delivered reliable long term results. So I think there
36:08
Speaker 3: is a little bit to say that, yeah, if you
36:10
Speaker 3: feel good, then you do good and you can kind
36:13
Speaker 3: of like move through the world better. So there probably is,
36:15
Speaker 3: in some indirect way or direct way, it can improve
36:19
Speaker 3: your quality of life.
36:20
Speaker 2: Sure, yeah, I totally agree. I'll have a chat to
36:22
Speaker 2: the team and see maybe we can pop a wrap
36:24
Speaker 2: up on Instagram with some of your thoughts and feelings
36:25
Speaker 2: because there was a lot to unpack and it is
36:27
Speaker 2: such a complex topic. Guys, we run out of time.
36:29
Speaker 2: We're pushing it to the why we didn't out of
36:31
Speaker 2: a studio. We've got more to say, but we've been
36:33
Speaker 2: kicked out. So thank you guys so much for joining us.
36:36
Speaker 2: I think my final thought is that there is a
36:38
Speaker 2: real privilege in opting out of beauty standards, and I
36:41
Speaker 2: just want you all to think about what would women
36:43
Speaker 2: do with the money, the time, the mental space if
36:47
Speaker 2: beauty stands were loosened and we didn't have all of
36:49
Speaker 2: those things taking up in our brains. Yeap, just think
36:52
Speaker 2: about it a little bit. But thank you so much
36:53
Speaker 2: for joining us for another juicy deep dive. If you've
36:55
Speaker 2: got a topic that you're dying to hear is discussed
36:57
Speaker 2: on the podcast, please send it in. Join the Facebook
37:00
Speaker 2: community if you haven't already, or follow us on Instagram
37:02
Speaker 2: where you can send us dms. Check out the posts
37:04
Speaker 2: all kinds of fun things. Thank you so much for
37:07
Speaker 2: being a part of our community. We will catch you
37:09
Speaker 2: later in the week for Friday drinks, but until then,
37:11
Speaker 2: take care of yourselves. Bye goos bye.
37:19
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