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Half-Life: Abby McDonnell on Finding Confidence in Movement · The Power of Doing What Matters

• # Half-Life: Abby McDonnell on Finding Confidence in Movement Abby McDonnell: [00:00:00] How do we make them confident in certain movements that maybe, they've been avoiding or been fearful of, for a while? And I think when we're able to not necessarily work around, what's going on with them, but if we're able to show them safe movements and have them feel confident in that way, for something that they may not have tried on their own. Announcer: The Power of Doing What Matters podcast: conversations, stories, and insights about health, performance, and the choices that help us move toward what matters most. Dr. Clayton Skaggs: Abby McDonnell is a resilience practitioner here at the institute and we're real excited to have her on the program this week. she is a team member at the institute for just under a year so one of our new, teammates, and so very excited to have you here, Abby, to share your [00:01:00] stories and your knowledge. Abby McDonnell: Yeah. I'm excited to be here. Dr. Clayton Skaggs: Wonderful. So just a quick brief intro. Abby is one of our resilience practitioners. She has a master's in athletic training, and she is a St. Louis native, a former collegiate volleyball player. She currently has one child named Mia and her husband's name is Miles. That's gotta get confusing sometimes. Abby McDonnell: Yes. Yes. Dr. Clayton Skaggs: And, she previously worked as a physician extender with an orthopedic surgery group, so just a wonderful background as do many of our team, team practitioners there at the institute have. What, would you say is maybe a distinction about how we help people there and how they come through? Abby McDonnell: I think one of the biggest things that I've [00:02:00] noticed since I've been working here and I've been learning, and throughout this whole process has been each individual that I work with, has a different spectrum in terms of their own knowledge about themselves. we talk about it but when I moved right out of college into, you know, different settings, it wasn't really taken, that way as much. You know, it was mainly just, you know, treat the injury, treat the area. And then if it doesn't work, then, you know, maybe we need to look somewhere else. I feel like we really explore all the different factors that lead into somebody's condition, whether it's the amount of stress they're going through at work, or whether it's, you know, they, have something else is going on in their life that is affecting them. so I think we really take note of all of those things and, you know, the team really works together in making sure that we communicate that to each other 'cause it does have an effect. And I've seen that with a lot of clients, you know, there's a lot of [00:03:00] those outside sources or external factors, that can play a part in their own recovery and their own journey, which I think is really a true distinction, from what I've seen in other places as well. Dr. Clayton Skaggs: Great. Thank you. Do you have a current story where a client really, found their why, they found why, these things, have, been continuing with them, whether it's their pain or their inability to get, fit or strong or to gain muscle? A, you know, a story that, that maybe relates, that why versus the what? Abby McDonnell: Yeah. Yeah. and it's, actually a more, recent client, that we've been working with and, the biggest ... One of the biggest factors for him, was just having a lot a, of low back pain and, radicular symptoms down the leg, in terms of background. but then diving deeper into kind of what was going on underneath the [00:04:00] surface, you know, finding out that, you know, maybe the job that he was currently in was not the right fit, you know. It was, draining energy, it was draining his time, and a lot of, you know, just his, overall happiness too. And he would say that, you know, to us in, in our sessions as well. and recently, in, in our sessions there's a lot of, there was a lot of fear and there was a lot of, hesitancy, of if this process was really going to help him. And then recently had a job change that is a much better fit for him. and just in his demeanor and the way that he goes about our sessions just, a general happiness about him and more, enthusiasm about what we're doing here. and we're starting to see, overall a slow and steady decrease of his, symptoms as well. Dr. Clayton Skaggs: I think that, that's certainly a, a pattern we've seen, many times there at the institute. And, you know, a [00:05:00] story that, that I often tell, about performance care and recovery from injury from decades ago, is, you know, Manchester United. they were one of the first, sports organizations that really started looking at how to predict injury and improve injury recovery, as they saw how costly it was, and, it still is, in many fields and groups. But they did a deep dive in labs and movement and strength tests and psychological testing, just extensive for that day. So again, decades ago they did this. and what kind of treatments they were getting and so forth. And the thing they found that predicted injury far greater than any of those lab tests or other, structural tests was trouble with the girlfriend. [00:06:00] And so, I always remember, you know, that, that research they did. and it just continues to prove out that when you have some emotional stresses like this fella with his, dissatisfaction with his job, it impacts your body's ability to recover, to see past, the, you know, the, these, these issues that, that allow them to get strong, to get more fit, to allow their resiliency to really come through. So it... Yes, that proves out time and time again. That's not to say that, there aren't physical factors that need to be recovered. Weakness or sometimes, areas of dysfunction or tightness. But, often if, if we don't get our mind in a good spot, we can't even get to those [00:07:00] physical parts. Abby McDonnell: Exactly. Dr. Clayton Skaggs: All right. Well, maybe let's go ahead and, read our insight today and that'll, likely bring forward a few more topics for us to cover. Wisdom of the ages. Half-life. Mickey Mantle, considered by many one of the best baseball players ever, said, "It's unbelievable how much you don't know about the game you've been playing all your life." This quote is from Mantle's book, The Quality of Courage, and reflects his view as he entered the major leagues. It is reflective of the blind spots that can develop over time, blind spots over long periods of time, even when you're having success. In the past week, Mantle would've likely been repeating his words. The Milwaukee Brewers won the World Series for the first time in the [00:08:00] history of their franchise. It took fifty-eight years. They had the best record in all of baseball in two thousand twenty-six, and they lost only two games in the twelve games they played in the playoffs. What adds to the unbelievable is that the Milwaukee Brewers were given a three point eight five percent chance to win the World Series at the beginning of the season the Brewers' low probability to win was also likely due to the perceived talent based on payroll for the players. The Milwaukee Brewers were ranked nineteenth in payroll at a hundred and fifty million dollars compared to the number one ranked team based on payroll, the Los Angeles Dodgers, at four hundred and thirty million dollars. The Brewers beat the Dodgers in the League Championship Series four games to none. In fact, over the past ten years, teams with top-ranked payroll only won the World Series forty percent of the time. [00:09:00] Winning is not the only measure. Maybe most importantly to consider is the experience and purpose of the game. The world and the Dodgers were counting on what was probable. The Brewers and their fans were focused on what was possible. In his intriguing book, The Half-Life of Facts, Samuel Arbesman says humans are not good at recognizing change that happens slow. Arbesman, an applied mathematician, convincingly shows how many scientific facts and beliefs simply expire over time. In fact, he reviews how over fifty percent of the medical knowledge about diseases consistently takes about forty-five years for it to be disproven. This aligns with a frequent comment among doctors: "Half of what I was taught in my training is not true anymore." Arbesman identifies that sometimes the gap for new knowledge to be [00:10:00] accepted or discovered by populations can take decades. For example, the practice of sterilization during surgery or other medical procedures was identified twenty years before it was fully accepted into practice. Modern examples include immediate antibiotics for earaches in young children, acetaminophen for low-grade fever, and bed rest for back pain. All were common applications that are now rarely provided. It took decades for it to change. Daniel Kahneman, Nobel Prize-winning behavioral economist, coined the term theory-induced blindness, an adherence to a belief about how the world works that prevents you from seeing how the world really works. If the advancement of knowledge means approximately one half of what we know and apply currently will be wrong in the next forty-five years, there's reason to pause and practice patience in acting. It seems that simple and less likely will continue to hold true [00:11:00] and do not expire. Breathing practice, reading, walking, lifting weights, socializing, and listening to your body are a few that come to mind. Doing as little as possible and as much as necessary might be an important principle in doing what matters for you. I'm reminded of my daughter's first midwife, Rebecca. I speak about her wisdom and talent in The Power of Doing What Matters. She said, "I have found that you cannot speed up delivery, but you sure can slow it down." Similarly, I have found that it's difficult to speed up building resilience or biohacking good health, but you sure can slow it down anything that really surfaces from that insight for you? Abby McDonnell: I actually, a few things kind of popped out in my mind, in terms of what we do here and [00:12:00] what we practice, and I think the forefront, of my mind was the question that you tend to pose, to, you know, all of us as team members, is what have you learned today? and I think, you know, at the beginning of when I first started, I was very intimidated by that because, you know, what... it posed this question or this challenge to me of what have I learned today? Am I really thinking about, what is my day teaching me, or what am I learning from my experiences? and I think that state of learning or being challenged in that way, is something that I think this insight really hits on, in terms of this idea of being in the middle of, theories or change or recognizing change. and I think a lot of us can, a lot of us and, a lot of, clients can be caught in this, this phase of relying on older theories. and so what are... It poses the question just kind of like you do of [00:13:00] what is, what are you learning, currently learning? What have you learned today? Or what, whether are you in that state of, challenging yourself, in your day-to-day life? And, that's easier said than done. It's, definitely a, difficult question. But it does challenge, especially me to look at my day and really figure out, you know, what, what is this day trying to teach me? What are... What is my work trying to teach me? What is... You know, going home and being a parent, what is that trying to teach me? so finding that, that space in my life to kind of challenge, my own brain to continue learning. Dr. Clayton Skaggs: Well, that's great. And, that, that's a, lesson I learned early. Still have to bring it front of mind for myself from time to time as, as my days get full. And, I came up with it as, as I was active in early [00:14:00] practice and there would sometimes would be a case I'd be walking into that I was maybe gonna be more challenged by or, they weren't improving as, as I'd hoped they would. And, and I would say before I'd walk through the door to see them, "What can I learn from this encounter?" And, and so that's where that came from. And, I think it, it transfers to our listeners who are maybe, in the middle of, you know, improving their performance, im- improving their, fitness and are, and resolving their pain and signal, history, is, to pause enough, so, so to take that moment and, even if you're in the middle of, you know, increased signaling down your leg or increased, neck issues or knee issues, to pause and say, "Well, what happened?" Like some of our previous, [00:15:00] insights. and, what could this mean?" It does- You know? And, so just that, that pause, like, like we're talking about relative to what can I learn, what does it mean, really can make the difference. And, I think relative to this insight, certainly just because, the, that, you know, what we The way we've thought things have worked for years and then sometimes decades, like, like you're exampled here in the, in, in the, reading, you know, that, we threw antibiotics at earaches for, decades before we really identified that, wow, a lot of these are viruses, and antibiotics really aren't, gonna help that earache. or to try to quell a fever early is, not, necessarily serving, you know, serving our body either. [00:16:00] It ... And even though that was the practice for a long time. So- sometimes the pause is to reflect, that, there might be a new way. There might be a new way. Abby McDonnell: I think that's come up, more in a personal experience, but being a newer, parent, I, you know, just as an example, I think there's, A lot of things that my parents did or, you know, raising me, that when I bring up new ideas about raising my daughter, they, furrow their brows or, you know, question me like, "Why would you do it that way?" and you know, there's a lot of, you know, newer research that has come out since, they were parents, with, young kids. And I think they... There's a- That's just another example of, I think new or older theories being challenged or, having more research around them, in terms of what works, or what, what doesn't. And I think, that, that was another forefront of my [00:17:00] mind. I was like, oh, this can be applied to that scenario as well in more of a, a joking way as I picture my mom's face as I, you know, try all these things with my daughter that she never did with me. So it's a, this theory or, this theory-induced blindness can, you know, span, a lot of different aspects of life as well. Dr. Clayton Skaggs: Yeah, and the, I think the challenge, and e- even as I wrote this insight, it, made me ponder, considerably. Well, then if, if half of these things are gonna be expired in, 45 years, were they true to begin with? And, so that- that's one of those deep philosophical ones, I guess. And I think what the insight speaks to some degree, is, that, that might be why it, could be of high value to keep doing the things [00:18:00] that you know are proven, you know, decade or over a century, or centuries, over, over a century. because those, have been tried and true for a long time. So- moving, taking, taking time, taking rests, breathing practice. You know, while, our institute has only been, operating a couple decades, and emphasizing breathing, breathing practice and breathing awareness, has, been around for thousands of, years. So, so, so I think, you know, some of this evidence that, Arbesman brings forward about half-life and, so many things, is a bit of an indication to, to at least stay, true and strong on, on, on some of these things that are, very known. Abby McDonnell: Yeah. And I think, I... This insight, I really do like this insight, [00:19:00] mostly because it, it does offer a, a challenge for a lot of people to kind of live in the space of looking back and, not necessarily challenging everything, but you know, if things aren't going to plan or working or, you know, something seems, a bit awry, where is that space where you can look back and challenge, old theories or your own old thinking? and how do you live in that and progress forward? kind of like you said, how do you pause, and challenge yourself a little bit to, gather information, look for, you know, different things, and just pay attention and be mindful of it. I think that pause to, you know, challenge those things is, hard for a lot of people, but a good practice to, do as well. Dr. Clayton Skaggs: Yeah. and I think, I, I've had several cases in, the past week that, that, had, had some exacerbation so they, you know, they, maybe had some [00:20:00] exacerbation of a radicular problem in their neck. They had-- One had a radicular exacerbation increase of signals, down their leg. and, again, pausing to, to really calibrate, and then, not necessarily doing more, but continuing to, follow, what, what is known to, be in-indicated to help. time and time again, that, that, will resolve, and but it, That pause in patience is, critical. And I just had a case this week, that had been to four surgeons and extensive physical therapy. And, when I taught him some breathing and, a few other of our simple exercises, he said, "Well, I'm, really excited because no one, you know, no one has, talked about these things or, [00:21:00] taught me that." And, so, he, saw the difference and knew that something different was more likely to work than more of the same. Abby McDonnell: Yeah, and I think the- Previously when, I've... in different settings that I've worked with in the past, I think my, my first one out of college was with a chiropractic and physical therapy clinic, and then, my second one was as a physician extender with, Loyola Hospital in Chicago. And I think, those experiences have helped, shape me into the, practitioner that I am. But they've also, since coming here, I found that I've been able to look back and almost challenge some of the things that I've learned in the past, you know, six years, and be able to rethink them or, grow my own knowledge in that way. Specifically, working here, I think that I've found, especially looking back at [00:22:00] my old physical therapy, clinic, I learned so much from there. but also applying the things that I'm learning here and looking back and kind of having this, challenge within my, brain and discussion and, dialogue to try and figure out, okay, what is it that I truly learned and what am I gonna take from that experience and bring into my current experience versus what am I gonna challenge and maybe rethink, what I... old theories or what I used to think. and so I think there's a, a spot to be open to that, looking back at even Dr. Clayton Skaggs: just past Abby McDonnell: experiences, to kind of shape who I am and shape the practitioner that I am today. And I think this, this job and this experience has given me the space to do that. and kind of throughout, you know, your podcast, we, you guys talk a lot about pausing or taking the time to, [00:23:00] really figure out what's going on and, I really resonated with that pause or just taking time to not rush to decisions or, pausing and not rushing into progressing someone, just because that's what I may have used to do in the past. You know, just maybe to get people in and out of the door. I think this has been a great opportunity and experience to really try and pause and have the space to do that. not a lot of places can do that or work, workspaces, have the option for that. So I've really come to appreciate that because it's helped me grow as a practitioner and it's helped me grow my own knowledge because, this place has given me time and, space to expand my knowledge and challenge things that I've learned in the past. Dr. Clayton Skaggs: Oh, fantastic. Yeah, the, this, the same client I saw this week, he shared at the end of the visit that, [00:24:00] he said, "You know, I, I really have enjoyed being able to, share what I had these concerns about and have the time to ask these questions because I feel like in all those encounters," his four surgeons and extensive physical therapy, he said, "You know, you know how it is. You... I had five minutes." and so to really answer their questions I think is, extremely important. and then for your, the practitioner to have time to, to pause and make the right decision I think is what you're also speaking to, which is, equally, you know, equally valuable for sure. Abby McDonnell: Yeah. Dr. Clayton Skaggs: what would, what do you think is one of the most valuable things that clients, could hear? Abby McDonnell: I truly [00:25:00] believe that the state of their mindset has a lot to do with it, and I think one of the biggest things that I've noticed, with a lot of clients, in terms of progression or in terms of how they respond to certain, exercises or, activities, is their, simply their confidence about it. How do we make them confident in certain movements that maybe, they've been avoiding or been fearful of, for a while? And I think when we're able to not necessarily work around, what's going on with them, but if we're able to show them safe movements and have them feel confident in that way, for something that they may not have tried on their own, for the fear of, exacerbating their symptoms or, you know, for the fear of, having, more pain or having more signaling, I think that [00:26:00] is something that's so powerful for clients is when they can gain their own confidence, and ability to listen to their body and know what movements, are good for them and, safe for them, and be able to grow from that. I think learning what their capacity is and being confident in that is a huge, indicator and aspect of their training, or where their training is gonna go as well. And I think I've seen that the most with, a lot of our clients is, you know, when they do have especially for people who are just starting out, let's, you know, for example, for somebody who may not have picked up any dumbbells or, you know, tried anything, in terms of, like, twisting motions or anything like that. When we're able to show, how they can control that and how they can do that in a safe way, their reaction to something like that a lot of the time is like, "Wow, I never thought I would be able to do that." [00:27:00] or I, you know, "I didn't think I was gonna be able to do that." And so I think the power of, enabling their confidence through their movements, and through their own capacity, whatever, they land on that spectrum, I think is really important, as, you know, clients continue on their journey. Dr. Clayton Skaggs: Yeah. that's, that's, fantastic. That's a hallmark of the ability to gain that self-efficacy and, you know, it's, one of our opportunities and the real rewards of what we get to do. Some days it's really challenging- to, help someone find that, that confidence, that certainty to know they, they can try that, and then once they try it they know, "Wow, that... I'm safe to do that." And, those are, magic words when, you hear them say, [00:28:00] "Well, I didn't think I could do that, but I did, and I didn't have any trouble," and, "Wow, I've never done that before." so those are those are some of our favorite words, right? All right. Well, Abby, thank you so much. I look forward to more and more fun, fun, encounters with you and, appreciate all you do there. Abby McDonnell: Oh. Well, thank you so much. It was, you know, a pleasure to be welcomed on and, glad to have this conversation as well. Dr. Clayton Skaggs: All right. Thank you. Announcer: The Power of Doing What Matters podcast. This program was produced by Tim Sirmon, Emily Csengody, and Clayton Skaggs. I'm Madeline Carico. Imagine 100 million people focused on doing what matters. Listen to the Power of Doing What Matters podcast on Apple, Spotify, or [00:29:00] YouTube.