Latest / The Dr. Psych Mom Show with clinical psychologist Dr. Samantha Rodman Whiten / Financial Values And How They Affect Your Relationship

Transcript

Financial Values And How They Affect Your Relationship · The Dr. Psych Mom Show with clinical psychologist Dr. Samantha Rodman Whiten

• 0:05
  Hi everybody and welcome to the Doctor Psych Mom Show.
• 0:09
  Today I'm going to talk about financial goals and how you can
• 0:13
  use them to figure out what your values are in the in the present
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  moment, so your day-to-day life. And my most recent subscriber
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  episode was about career struggles that women have in
• 0:24
  midlife. So obviously, as you can tell, a
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  lot of people discuss these kinds of issues with me at the
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  stage that they're at money and goals and how long they want to
• 0:34
  work etcetera. So.
• 0:35
  So these are pretty salient for most of the people that are
• 0:38
  listening, I'm sure. So of course do subscribe if you
• 0:43
  want to hear that episode as well as 140 others and and join
• 0:49
  my Facebook group if you want the 499 cheaper option than the
• 0:53
  899 for the monthly podcast subscription.
• 0:56
  That gets you my group with lots and lots of cool people to talk
• 1:00
  to threads. And actually I got this very
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  topic from something that was discussed in the Facebook group
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  OK, so how should your financial goals interact with what you do
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  day-to-day? So there are a lot of different
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  ways that people think about this.
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  And a lot of times men in particular think that if they
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  really put their nose to the grindstone for X amount of years
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  or decades, then they can have like a retirement after that
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  where they truly finally enjoy their life.
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  That usually is antithetical to how many women view the years of
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  having young kids especially. So for example, the woman would
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  feel that the guy should spend a lot more time at home while the
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  kids are young because they'll only be little once and she
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  herself is going to cut back on her career or be in a more
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  flexible job or stop working entirely and and so she gets
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  very upset. This is what I call the young
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  mother stage. I have a post, the young mother
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  stage and why to come home early from work.
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  So women feel very alone and abandoned at that stage where
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  they're biologically vulnerable. They are have just been
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  pregnant, they have tiny little kids, they are caring for them
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  physically all the time. And the guy's just like gone all
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  the time at work. And he may have the best of
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  intentions to provide for his family and his long term goal
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  may be to be, you know financially independent and such
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  that he doesn't have to work after a certain point, even a
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  fairly early point like financial independence.
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  Retire early, fire the acronym, the Reddit fire.
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  You could Google that. But anyway, so a lot of those
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  guys want to retire early, like in their 40s and that's why
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  they're trying so hard before that to make a lot of money.
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  Now the problem is, is that a lot of women that.
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  So if a guy wants to retire and like spend time with his wife at
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  like 45 or 50, guess what? Like that's when she has her own
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  like change of heart. The kids are older, she doesn't
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  want to be at home caring for them or she wants to go back to
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  work. So I've seen that happen a lot
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  where, like, men and women have totally different financial and
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  career goals that like, intersect.
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  Like, just when he thinks he's made enough money to kind of
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  phase back at work or have more flexibility, she wants to ramp
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  up because her kids are like out of the house, you know, I mean,
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  it's it's like totally different for a woman when every, every
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  reason she wasn't working was having little kids that want you
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  around and you're got to, you know, go pick them up from
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  school or hang out with them, you know, the whole afternoon
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  driving them places. Then all of a sudden they become
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  teenagers. They could kind of do whatever
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  they want. They drive themselves places or
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  they leave the nest entirely. And that's when a lot of women
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  want to focus on career and if the guys made so much money that
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  they don't really have to work, then a lot of them go and
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  volunteer and get really into that and a lot of them work
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  anyway, even if he's made enough money.
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  So the point is, is that you and your spouse need to constantly
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  be having financial discussions and there's a lot of people that
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  say they have financial discussions and all that really
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  means is like they talk about their budget and like kind of
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  day-to-day stuff but not overarching plans.
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  Like I have a podcast. Do you and your spouse have the
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  same hopes for the empty nester years?
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  That really dovetails with a lot of what I'm talking about.
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  So minute to minute, you know, yeah, you may be on the same
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  page that like, spending like $300.00 on like a piece of
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  clothing is is bullshit. And like you should only spend
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  like 2000 for a vacation or like whatever.
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  But then long term, the guy may think it's so obvious that he's
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  like busting his ass now so that they can enjoy themselves and
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  travel together or something starting in their 50s.
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  And she's thinking that that's when she's finally going to go
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  back to work and after menopause.
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  Her, her obviously, as I discussed so many times, her
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  desire to caretake and to even be engaged in an intimate
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  relationship can drop. And she has different sorts of
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  priorities. And you can, of course, listen
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  to my Menopause podcast and also my podcast on how women's brains
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  and bodies change in their 40s. So and of course, nobody can
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  predict the future. So if you guys are like, both
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  like 35 years old and you're talking about these things and
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  she just has one baby and she's like, OK, yeah, that sounds
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  good. I understand.
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  Like, you know, I want to get a bigger house.
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  And and you know, like, you're right.
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  We need a bigger house. We need this.
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  We need that. So yeah, you should totally work
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  a lot. That may be really different
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  from how she feels when she has a second baby and she feels
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  like, you know, he's kind of never around.
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  And so it's important to have more regular check insurance
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  with how you guys feel your financial values Concord or
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  don't Concord. And those can change all the
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  time, Such as some guys think that they're going to be cool
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  working constantly. And then they realize that means
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  that they'll never get to do Little League with their kid the
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  way, same way their dad never did it with them.
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  Or they'll never really be able to enjoy a weekend because
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  they're always, you know, having to run into work or on call or
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  whatever the case may be. And at that point, let's say the
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  woman is really into the idea of getting a bigger and better
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  house or sending the kids to certain camps or having certain
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  vacations, then they are no longer aligned.
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  So these conversations about values and finances are things
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  that couples therapy can really help with.
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  But you on your own can DIY a lot of these conversations by
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  being interested and curious about what each other really
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  thinks. Because the truth is that there
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  are no people who are rich enough that they do not have
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  conflicting financial values. For real.
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  I mean I work with very wealthy people a lot of the time and
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  still they are fighting about whether they should get like a
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  fifth home or 6th home or something.
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  I mean if you are not on the same page, you cannot out earn
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  that. And then frequently they're
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  fighting about when they're so wealthy that they're fighting
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  about literally what are they teaching their kids and are
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  their kids just starting spoiled brats and how much money should
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  they give their kids? Should the kids even know how
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  much money they have? You know, should they pay for
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  everything for the kids? Should they pay for nothing for
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  the kids, You know. So it's not as though you can
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  out earn incompatibility about financial values.
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  This is something where people really have to do a deep dive
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  and get to a common ground and respect and understand and
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  empathize with one another's positions.
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  Now, what's going to be obviously very important here,
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  as it always, is how you grew up.
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  And that can really, really short circuit a lot of potential
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  conflict because instead of people viewing each other as,
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  you know, the enemy, they can do a deeper dive on understanding
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  why their spouse thinks the way that they do.
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  So for example, you know, if you feel, let's say, that you're
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  busting your ass at your job and you want your husband to bust
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  his ass equivalently at his job. So then you guys can have a
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  bigger house and your kids can have a yard and a pool and all
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  these things, right? And he thinks that he would
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  rather be be around, you know, and not not always be at work.
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  And a lot of people are dual career couples are in this.
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  You know, when I have this dynamic, I call the lean in wife
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  and the underachieving guy or something like that in my post.
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  But anyway, so like, let's say that they had a deeper
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  conversation about it. He could understand that she was
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  raised like in a tiny apartment and she always felt kind of
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  embarrassed inviting her friends over.
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  And things were dirty and they didn't have enough of anything,
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  and they never went on vacations.
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  And she doesn't want that kind of life for her kids.
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  She wants a life of plenty. And she associates that with
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  material and money because that's what she never had.
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  Of course, I'm sure there were other problems too.
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  And that's a proxy variable. And then on his end, what if he
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  felt that his dad was at the office all the time and never
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  spent any time with him? And that was something that
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  always made him sad as a kid. And so he's trying to remedy
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  that. And this is totally not unusual.
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  This would be a fairly normative way that couples have differing
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  values about making money and the relative merit of time
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  versus money for the children. So a conversation where you're
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  going deeper and really trying to understand where each other
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  comes from can be transformative and allowing couples to take a
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  step back and get out of this. I'm right versus You're right
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  because nobody's right. You know, I have a podcast about
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  that about some people like stuff and some people don't.
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  And nobody's right or wrong, 'cause that was another question
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  that I got, like, oh, aren't those people shallow?
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  That all they care about are things I'm like, no, you know, I
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  mean, like, like, that's like cultural.
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  That's like saying, like, isn't it shallow for like somebody to,
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  you know, want There's just anything.
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  Like, I mean, isn't it isn't it shallow for somebody to want
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  like a velvet Yamaka in the in, you know, the synagogue?
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  Like, no, like, that's what you're supposed to want.
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  And that's like I considered a nice thing.
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  So like literally in every religion, in every culture,
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  there are things that are associated with special or good
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  and that are more expensive and literally every culture ever.
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  So are people shallow for wanting those things, things
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  which are proxy variables for good, you know, No.
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  You know, like I watched that, that documentary or whatever on
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  the woman who we had an affair. And do you remember what I'm
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  talking about? Guys, it was on.
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  It was both on Netflix and Hulu. They did different versions of
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  this woman's history and she was this Midwestern woman and she
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  got into an affair with this guy.
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  And then there ended up being a murder, love and death.
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  That's what it was called. It was really good.
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  But anyway, though, a big thing that they were doing was all
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  they were gathering money and raising money so that they could
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  get a different church. They could get a nice new
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  church. And when they had the nice new
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  church, they felt that they would attract all these, you
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  know, participants and all of these congregants.
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  And so that was their financial goal.
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  And as long as everybody's on the same financial goal and
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  that's like their big thing is to, you know, raise money for
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  this big church, then it's not shallow.
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  It has a greater purpose. So talking about money in a
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  different sort of way, as a proxy variable, as a symbol, as
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  a way that many people try to remedy deficits and their
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  upbringing can be very, very useful when you're struggling
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  with differences of opinion on this issue and really any issue.
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  But this is the, you know, this is what we're talking about
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  today, but there is no marital issue that you're going to have
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  that is not better served by you guys individually going on a
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  deep dive and figuring out why you think the way you do instead
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  of just assuming this is the quote, right way to think and
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  these are the right values. So a woman, for example, who
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  thinks her husband should be around more, she usually is
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  like, well, of course you should be.
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  You should be because you should be.
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  Because that's what dads do when they love their kids as they're
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  around. They don't just work to make
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  money. You should be around.
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  And so of course the guy's going to be like, fuck you.
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  Don't tell me what I should do. I'm a good dad.
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  I'm trying to provide because she's attacking what he should
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  do or shouldn't do. The same as if he says to her,
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  you shouldn't care where we live.
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  You just shouldn't care shallow to care where we live.
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  It's shallow to care about how big the house is.
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  You just shouldn't. So when people tell each other
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  what they should and shouldn't do is, you know, useless.
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  Really all it does is make you feel more separate from each
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  other and really just angry and resentful.
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  Whereas if people go individually and figure out why
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  do they have the financial values that they have and how
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  can I communicate that better to my partner?
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  Things obviously go a hell of a lot better, right?
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  As as you can imagine. Because then people do not feel
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  so attacked, and people try to understand one another.
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  And that understanding is the foundation of a deeper
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  relationship where you're really, really looking out for
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  one another instead of feeling me against you, that me against
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  you. Feeling is basically the worst
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  possible feeling that people can have within a marriage.
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  So if you've listened to this so far, it's something that you
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  could do. You could think about what your
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  financial values are and why, where those originate in your
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  family of origin. And then you could initiate A
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  deeper conversation with your spouse about how your financial
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  values are similar and different and where they are now, where
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  you think they'll be in five years, where where they might
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  not be in five years, where they were five years ago.
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  Have they changed over time? What variables have made them
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  change, et cetera, et cetera. That would be a very interesting
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  conversation for most people to have that would make them feel
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  closer as a couple. All right.
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  So I hope you found this interesting, guys.
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  And please be sure to subscribe and to get then 140 more
• 13:42
  episodes close to or probably it is by now and I will talk to
• 13:47
  everybody soon. Have a great day.