Latest / To All the Men I've Tolerated Before / Classical Music

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Classical Music · To All the Men I've Tolerated Before

0:20
Speaker 1: Hey tolerators, this is to all the men I've tolerated before.
0:24
Speaker 1: With Naaniy Katona, your weekly look at everyday misogyny. TikTok
0:29
Speaker 1: brought me another talented guest this week, and we are
0:32
Speaker 1: welcoming Tony Palell to the team. Tony is a classical
0:36
Speaker 1: music composer and has just dropped her composition the morning
0:39
Speaker 1: after on Spotify. She is here to talk about the
0:43
Speaker 1: way misogyny affects classical music and has impacted her musical
0:47
Speaker 1: career as a young black woman. Tony, thanks for being here.
0:52
Speaker 2: Thank you for having no problem.
0:55
Speaker 1: I'm super excited for you. It's always really fun to
0:59
Speaker 1: release something thing and then just have it out there.
1:02
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's it's honestly, the whole journey of releasing my
1:06
Speaker 2: music has been exhilarating. I'm not gonna lie. I was
1:10
Speaker 2: a bit surprised how much fashion I got because I
1:14
Speaker 2: think coming from a family who kind of they you know,
1:18
Speaker 2: I was always taught to go to school music. They're
1:21
Speaker 2: not going to make a living off of music. And
1:23
Speaker 2: I got a lot of support, so I think it's
1:26
Speaker 2: is fine, and of course I've can invite it to
1:28
Speaker 2: the podcast, So thank you.
1:29
Speaker 1: Day no problem. We love to amplify the work of
1:33
Speaker 1: women and women making it happen on the show. And
1:36
Speaker 1: I think that's so interesting because I think a lot
1:39
Speaker 1: of people have that same take where it's like my
1:42
Speaker 1: family told me that I had to go to school
1:45
Speaker 1: and it wasn't going to be music, art, dance, creating,
1:49
Speaker 1: whatever that was going to get me through life. And
1:53
Speaker 1: I always feel like I was, like, I know, but
1:55
Speaker 1: then no one talks about the careers in like I
1:59
Speaker 1: worked in a theater in an office, booking tickets and
2:03
Speaker 1: field trips and stuff, and that got me further into
2:06
Speaker 1: the creating process. And we have to just start be
2:10
Speaker 1: more open about like what opportunities are actually out there
2:14
Speaker 1: in the creative fields.
2:16
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, that's so true. I feel so my parents.
2:21
Speaker 2: My dad into trade school, my mom to college, has
2:23
Speaker 2: two master degrees. And it's kind of interesting because they're
2:27
Speaker 2: like the polar opposite when it comes to, you know,
2:31
Speaker 2: going into music or containing to college. Like my mom
2:34
Speaker 2: she believes that it's very hard to be finiously successful
2:37
Speaker 2: without college. My dad another hand, he's like, whatever you do,
2:41
Speaker 2: you you know, whatever you put your heart to and
2:44
Speaker 2: put your work ethic and make sure your work ethic pooves,
2:49
Speaker 2: you know, it pooves that, you know. How about say
2:52
Speaker 2: is My dad will say, don't expect to have the
2:55
Speaker 2: reward of a hard worker if you're lazy. That's what
2:58
Speaker 2: he would tell me. And it's kind of hard because
3:00
Speaker 2: you know, I always did wrong in high school. However,
3:03
Speaker 2: my heart has always been to music, and I don't know,
3:08
Speaker 2: I definitely relate to you, Lisa that pretending to be
3:12
Speaker 2: how much more you became successful in it. I didn't
3:16
Speaker 2: think I would get over close to ten kviews, ten
3:20
Speaker 2: thousand bees. People to this day still like my music
3:23
Speaker 2: final music, you know, And it's sad, but I feel
3:27
Speaker 2: like when ever people tend to not go tells to
3:30
Speaker 2: college Welt, they give more judgment, They get totally more
3:35
Speaker 2: no more times than they are said yes. And I
3:39
Speaker 2: don't know, it's just I'm still thinking. I'm just like
3:42
Speaker 2: in shocked to this day because I told my sister
3:45
Speaker 2: I was actually talking to her that every day. I
3:47
Speaker 2: was like, the music is still getting strange shade. And
3:49
Speaker 2: as a kid, you know, I used to watch the
3:51
Speaker 2: Lee go on this buyside some people, Oh my god,
3:53
Speaker 2: like they're big, they're famous. I want to be like
3:55
Speaker 2: that one day, but it seems so far away. I
3:59
Speaker 2: don't know.
4:00
Speaker 1: Yeah, the whole college thing. I go back and forth
4:03
Speaker 1: on it because, you know, all it's rooted in such
4:09
Speaker 1: classism and capitalistic mindset and there's only one way to
4:14
Speaker 1: do something, and there's only one way to be successful.
4:18
Speaker 1: And I remember going to college and being next to
4:22
Speaker 1: people who I was like, these people could have gone
4:24
Speaker 1: straight into the workforce, Like they don't want to be here,
4:27
Speaker 1: they don't want to be reading a book or doing
4:31
Speaker 1: any of this. And I just I feel like, especially
4:36
Speaker 1: now with all the cuts to the Department of Education
4:40
Speaker 1: and whether or not we're even valuing education, it's one
4:44
Speaker 1: of those catch twenty twos where we won't invest in
4:47
Speaker 1: our high schools, our middle schools, and our elementary schools,
4:50
Speaker 1: but we'll tell every kid that the only way to
4:53
Speaker 1: make a salary and have health insurance is to have
4:56
Speaker 1: a college degree. So make it make sense.
5:01
Speaker 2: That's so true, because like, tell me why I ended
5:04
Speaker 2: up getting myself into the school, right. I even when
5:09
Speaker 2: I graduated from high school, I had many colleges that
5:12
Speaker 2: offered me six three years scholarships. I the brown In school. However,
5:16
Speaker 2: I dropped out. I would say when I was eighteen,
5:18
Speaker 2: because I wasn't sure what I want to do, and
5:22
Speaker 2: I couldn't help but feel like, you know, growing up
5:24
Speaker 2: as the email child, I was like, I'm not the oldest,
5:28
Speaker 2: but I'm not the youngest. So I learned something from
5:30
Speaker 2: my oldest sister, but I also learned what not to
5:32
Speaker 2: do from my younger brother, you know. And I feel like,
5:35
Speaker 2: because I did well in school and I always had
5:38
Speaker 2: a passion to learn, it's kind of been the expectation that, oh,
5:41
Speaker 2: she's going to be sleeping big, she's going to go
5:43
Speaker 2: into doctor or maybe a lawyer. And it's kind of
5:46
Speaker 2: hard to verbalize my dreams without verbalizing my dreams without
5:53
Speaker 2: being overwhelmed by anxiety, because I feel like I tell people,
5:58
Speaker 2: I tell people I want to be a musician, but
6:00
Speaker 2: some of them believe in me. But some of them
6:02
Speaker 2: are saying they told me, they're like, it might be hard.
6:05
Speaker 2: You know, not a lot of musicians make it. I
6:08
Speaker 2: get told you you don't have what it takes for,
6:10
Speaker 2: you're not going to make it. And over time, I
6:13
Speaker 2: let the words gets me to a point where I
6:16
Speaker 2: didn't take myself siousity and as hard for people to
6:19
Speaker 2: take you seriously, and you can't take your self curious.
6:21
Speaker 1: And that was something out to warn I just and
6:26
Speaker 1: I tried to be more mindful about how we talk
6:29
Speaker 1: about arts and creativity around kids. Like for example, I
6:34
Speaker 1: was with my aunt and her grandkids one day and
6:37
Speaker 1: they were playing with plato. I think this was around
6:41
Speaker 1: when they were all still under the age of like five,
6:44
Speaker 1: and one of them was like, when I grow up,
6:50
Speaker 1: my job is I'm going to make jewelry. And then
6:54
Speaker 1: my aunt right away went, that's a great hobby, but
6:56
Speaker 1: I don't know if it's a job. And I was like, God,
6:59
Speaker 1: damn it. I was like, and now Nanley has to
7:01
Speaker 1: get on her high horse. So I pulled up my
7:03
Speaker 1: TikTok and I showed her just accounts and videos of
7:07
Speaker 1: people making polymer clay earrings on TikTok. I go and look,
7:11
Speaker 1: this woman owns her business. She makes these ear rings,
7:15
Speaker 1: she puts these earrings on the Internet, and then she
7:18
Speaker 1: sells them. Now did I go into how hard it
7:21
Speaker 1: is to be a small business owner. No, but I
7:24
Speaker 1: did tell her, I go, there are jobs where people
7:27
Speaker 1: do this. Someone has to design the earrings that we
7:30
Speaker 1: buy from Target, Like we can do this, it's fine.
7:36
Speaker 1: And I just the way that we'll just like automatically
7:39
Speaker 1: shoot down kids out of the fear of something not
7:44
Speaker 1: being lucrative.
7:46
Speaker 2: Yes, oh my god, speak on it. That's so true.
7:50
Speaker 2: I feel like you tell kids to follow their dreams
7:53
Speaker 2: us long as it's realistic or regarded as the listic,
7:57
Speaker 2: and it's not fure because you have only people who
8:02
Speaker 2: have the potential to be brilliant artists, brilliant musicians are
8:06
Speaker 2: hell even brilliant businesspeople, but because they don't have the
8:09
Speaker 2: resources or their parents may out give them the resources
8:13
Speaker 2: supply and not feel they become limited force to work
8:17
Speaker 2: into something that they were never attended to do.
8:20
Speaker 1: I recently found out that the only reason Marie Shelley
8:22
Speaker 1: could write Frankenstein that we teach in schools is because
8:27
Speaker 1: her friends supported her for a year. They were like,
8:30
Speaker 1: we'll take care of your bills and food and whatever
8:34
Speaker 1: for a year, and she was able to write one
8:36
Speaker 1: of the biggest novels. Slash became millions of movies of
8:41
Speaker 1: all time. And it's just like if we lived in
8:46
Speaker 1: a country that had those support systems in place, where
8:50
Speaker 1: you didn't always have to worry about the grind. Imagine
8:56
Speaker 1: the things that we would have up with. And I
9:00
Speaker 1: feel like it's the time where like jobs were the scarcest,
9:04
Speaker 1: that music and art and books and everything. Like I'm
9:09
Speaker 1: thinking like the Harlem Renaissance, the European Renaissance, like all
9:14
Speaker 1: of that stuff.
9:15
Speaker 2: That's so true. It's funny so that because I took
9:18
Speaker 2: college history in high school and we learned about the
9:20
Speaker 2: Great Depression, and they're in a Great depression. I think
9:23
Speaker 2: Fber created a job for many starving artists to the
9:27
Speaker 2: point where they were doing gigs. And not only they
9:31
Speaker 2: were they able to make great money from it, but
9:33
Speaker 2: the works became a nominant, a big thing in history.
9:37
Speaker 2: Like it's so amazing, and I feel like that comedy
9:41
Speaker 2: we are now, I'm not seeing learning the depression, but
9:44
Speaker 2: we are in a recession, and I think we're going
9:47
Speaker 2: to see a lot of art, great amount of artists
9:50
Speaker 2: that we're out of it. But it is scary because
9:54
Speaker 2: it's just scary to know how with a snap of
9:58
Speaker 2: a finger, how keyes so quickly you know. It's really sad.
10:04
Speaker 1: We're on three of a new administration and already we're
10:09
Speaker 1: just feeling like the claw pressed out on us. To
10:13
Speaker 1: be like, we're in a recession, we're not valuing education,
10:17
Speaker 1: we're taking away funding for museums. So I'm so worried
10:22
Speaker 1: about kids in school currently and like what they're going
10:27
Speaker 1: to even be able to experience through school because I
10:32
Speaker 1: remember probably the first time I went to an art
10:36
Speaker 1: museum was because we went on a field trip or
10:39
Speaker 1: something like that. You know.
10:42
Speaker 2: That's true. I think literacy is a really key component
10:45
Speaker 2: in art, especially producing great art. I remember I'll never
10:49
Speaker 2: forget as a kid, I didn't know how to read
10:52
Speaker 2: at all. Like when I was in kindergarten. My teacher
10:55
Speaker 2: told my mom she was like, if she can't read
10:58
Speaker 2: catch up without the cage, she's going to go back.
11:00
Speaker 2: And my mom, being a teacher, she was like, no,
11:02
Speaker 2: I'm not letting them, my kids get in line. So
11:04
Speaker 2: she sat me down and made me practice for hours
11:06
Speaker 2: and hours. And the reason why I say this is
11:09
Speaker 2: because I think with so much stress, even during back then.
11:12
Speaker 2: I was born in two thousand and four, so I
11:15
Speaker 2: grew up when the economy crashed down in the two
11:18
Speaker 2: thousand and eighth per session. I remember my parents stressing
11:21
Speaker 2: how they're going to get paid bills, but they still
11:22
Speaker 2: find a way. And the reason I say that is
11:24
Speaker 2: because I think even though technology has improved, oh excuse me,
11:30
Speaker 2: I'm so sorry, I can't rest in the backgroup, I
11:32
Speaker 2: think so embarrassing. But with the rise of technology bathing,
11:39
Speaker 2: I think it has made it easier for people to
11:42
Speaker 2: become literate, But in a way, it's also stepped back
11:45
Speaker 2: because it's hard for us to It's hard for us
11:49
Speaker 2: to pay attention to ourselves because we're always paying attention
11:51
Speaker 2: to other people lives. Even though I grew up in
11:54
Speaker 2: an age where social media just started happening, I was
11:58
Speaker 2: fortunate enough to pop the time where I have parents
12:01
Speaker 2: who would tell me to put aside my phones, read
12:04
Speaker 2: a book for an hour and then write what you
12:07
Speaker 2: think it is right, what's the moral of the story,
12:09
Speaker 2: what's the gary? And I would say, practicing this every
12:12
Speaker 2: single day not only help refine my literacy in art,
12:18
Speaker 2: but it taught It gave me an eye to know
12:21
Speaker 2: what's the difference between good art and bad art. And
12:25
Speaker 2: I feel like it's a controversial thing. I'm sorry if
12:29
Speaker 2: I see much the strength in the topic, but I
12:32
Speaker 2: feel like this is controversial thing because a lot of
12:34
Speaker 2: people say I do agree that there's a lot of
12:38
Speaker 2: people think there's no such thing as bad art. And
12:40
Speaker 2: while that may be true, art, you know, it's very freeformed.
12:44
Speaker 2: There is objectively good art and then art that's how
12:49
Speaker 2: about it is It's not bad, but it could be.
12:53
Speaker 2: It's still in their early stage, is getting refine exactly.
12:56
Speaker 1: Yeah. I think the best art has an art. It
12:59
Speaker 1: has a point of view. And if you're never taught
13:02
Speaker 1: the point of view of others, how do you know
13:04
Speaker 1: your point of view?
13:06
Speaker 2: Yeah? So true, that's so true. Oh my god, no,
13:09
Speaker 2: because I feel really talk about this for hours, Like
13:11
Speaker 2: The Hundred Games was my favorite book series is the
13:14
Speaker 2: birth Grade. And as I'm like, okay, so kids had
13:19
Speaker 2: to fight to the death, I'm reading about President Snowcapnets,
13:23
Speaker 2: the dynamic between them, a girl who's stuck in poverty
13:26
Speaker 2: talking to a guy who's rich enforcing bringing all these
13:30
Speaker 2: kids from different economical situations for a game. And not
13:35
Speaker 2: only it wasn't until years with that really was like, wow,
13:38
Speaker 2: this is deeply connected to our promitis today. I didn't
13:42
Speaker 2: even know that even back then in the history, black kids,
13:46
Speaker 2: black boys, and possibly black girls as well, they will
13:50
Speaker 2: be recruited to do a game where they would have
13:52
Speaker 2: to fight each other physically in order to get a lottery.
13:55
Speaker 2: And you never looked. That's why it's so important to
13:59
Speaker 2: stay in touch with literacy, because art repeicates life, you know.
14:03
Speaker 2: And I had I not been an avid reader, or
14:07
Speaker 2: even had my mom and dad sit me down to
14:09
Speaker 2: try to read until I got better, I probably wouldn't
14:13
Speaker 2: be decent as I am arts and I am now,
14:18
Speaker 2: you know. And I like that you said that. I
14:21
Speaker 2: really think that's postfoundly. You said that if you don't
14:24
Speaker 2: understand the poet of view of others, how can you
14:26
Speaker 2: understand yourself well?
14:27
Speaker 1: And I think of what I'm budding up against it
14:31
Speaker 1: as I take like my screenwriting courses and my comedy
14:34
Speaker 1: writing courses and whatnot, is that I waited until I
14:38
Speaker 1: was in my mid thirties and I had a real rooted,
14:42
Speaker 1: grounded knowledge of myself and my point of view and
14:47
Speaker 1: my what was going to be important to me in
14:50
Speaker 1: the art that I create. And then you have these
14:53
Speaker 1: people who just show up and I'm like, oh, you
14:57
Speaker 1: just truly showed up, And it's like, what would you
14:59
Speaker 1: like to write about? And they're like, what would I
15:03
Speaker 1: like to write about? And I'm like, I really can't
15:05
Speaker 1: answer that for you, Like, I uh, and I think
15:10
Speaker 1: it I And maybe this is a controversial take, but
15:13
Speaker 1: I think that we still get to based on our
15:16
Speaker 1: taste levels, but also on craft, say when people have
15:20
Speaker 1: it and say when people don't. Because I'm so snobby,
15:24
Speaker 1: I recently told my friend, I was like, I feel
15:27
Speaker 1: like I should be able to call HBO and revoke
15:30
Speaker 1: people's white Lotus privileges based on the stupid things that
15:34
Speaker 1: they say about white lotus and how they don't get
15:36
Speaker 1: the point of it. Yeah. I heard about the TV
15:40
Speaker 1: what is It So White Lotus and hopefully we're doing
15:43
Speaker 1: an entire episode about it. It's about white tourism. So
15:47
Speaker 1: every season you're in a different colonized or like preyed
15:56
Speaker 1: upon community, Like the first season was in Hawaii, this
16:00
Speaker 1: current season is in Thailand, and it's all about how
16:04
Speaker 1: the rich, wealthy people view this culture that they truly
16:08
Speaker 1: have no authority over. And then and then it's white
16:13
Speaker 1: people watching white people take over this culture or talk
16:18
Speaker 1: on this culture or whatever, and the things that go
16:20
Speaker 1: over people's head that they'll complain about in the show.
16:23
Speaker 1: And I'm like, that's my white's point.
16:27
Speaker 2: Okay, I think, you know, it's interesting. I'm talking to
16:30
Speaker 2: my boyfriend yesterday and we were talking about colonization and stuff,
16:34
Speaker 2: and it's so interesting. I basically, like a lot of
16:38
Speaker 2: people think that racism is you know, it happens such
16:43
Speaker 2: a long time ago, but it is still occurring. And
16:46
Speaker 2: not only that, but you have to realize these white
16:49
Speaker 2: supremacis and allies of white supremacists right in order to
16:53
Speaker 2: kill other civilizations, to generally kill them, they have to
16:59
Speaker 2: kill them. It is way deeper. They have to give
17:02
Speaker 2: their consciousness because no way in how you can be
17:05
Speaker 2: okay with uprooting and destroying someone's miniage or civilization's massive
17:13
Speaker 2: amount of civilizations forever and so up to implement your
17:17
Speaker 2: own and then turn them out and say, oh but
17:21
Speaker 2: it's in our god given might eat name.
17:23
Speaker 1: Yes, And it's the very prideful audacity for me, like, okay,
17:30
Speaker 1: let's take music. I work for my sister's house once
17:33
Speaker 1: a week so I can hold the baby shit she
17:36
Speaker 1: need to be. And we've been watching comfort movies so
17:40
Speaker 1: he'll have good taste. And this week we watch That
17:43
Speaker 1: Thing You Do, which I don't know if you're familiar
17:45
Speaker 1: with that movie, but it's Tom Hanks discovering this like
17:50
Speaker 1: do walk kind of fifties motown group of white guys
17:54
Speaker 1: called the Wonders, and they have a one hit wonder
17:57
Speaker 1: that thing you do. And the drummer he's a white
18:02
Speaker 1: guy and he loves jazz and he wants to be
18:05
Speaker 1: a jazz drummer. So every time he talked about jazz,
18:08
Speaker 1: I was like the original La la land everybody, because
18:12
Speaker 1: I'm like, sir, get yourself out of jazz, you know.
18:17
Speaker 2: So it's it's true, it's sad in a way, but
18:22
Speaker 2: I'm glad you brought up music because as a kid,
18:27
Speaker 2: I didn't really I always love classical music. However, I
18:31
Speaker 2: was told that classical music it's not a black people think,
18:34
Speaker 2: they're like, what are you doing in black like classical music?
18:36
Speaker 2: You know, R and B, soul, gospel, those are our genmas.
18:41
Speaker 2: But it wasn't just what you know. I learned over
18:45
Speaker 2: time that I learned not too long will actually that
18:48
Speaker 2: there were black classical musicians in the day of Mosa.
18:52
Speaker 1: And most of and did you mean yeah I heard you, Oh, okay.
18:57
Speaker 2: Okay, sorry, no, it was black classical music media Mozart,
19:01
Speaker 2: and I think that he'll simply because as a kid,
19:04
Speaker 2: I always ilsold that why are you going into music
19:10
Speaker 2: that your people didn't create? You know? You know, And
19:16
Speaker 2: I don't know how to explain this. I think even
19:19
Speaker 2: with in terms of rock, it's hard to navigate in
19:22
Speaker 2: genres as today as a black woman, even though we
19:25
Speaker 2: progressed or whatever, if we really did progress, because a
19:29
Speaker 2: lot of people, you know, there are some black rock artists,
19:33
Speaker 2: especially black female artists, who pioneer, are the pioneers of
19:37
Speaker 2: rock music, but they will never give the credit because
19:40
Speaker 2: they're overshadowed by what's that's right? You know. And I
19:44
Speaker 2: think the movie dream Girls that highlights this. It talks
19:49
Speaker 2: about the Jennifer has been beyond the Girls. They made songs,
19:53
Speaker 2: but they never really got their credit in the beginning
19:56
Speaker 2: because you know, other groups were able to to make
20:00
Speaker 2: a proper all their song, you know. And I think
20:04
Speaker 2: to connect that the reason why I made classical music
20:07
Speaker 2: was because I don't believe and make the music with
20:10
Speaker 2: one genre. I feel like that's limiting. I would love
20:13
Speaker 2: to graduar with the song in every genre. But I
20:17
Speaker 2: really want to make classical music because I don't think
20:21
Speaker 2: of myself as a good singer I feel like I'm decent,
20:23
Speaker 2: you know, But I always, I'll tell myself, I always
20:26
Speaker 2: want to make music that you see for me.
20:29
Speaker 1: Oh, I love that.
20:30
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I think even with I'm still navigating making
20:36
Speaker 2: my own sounds. But I really love to make music
20:39
Speaker 2: that connects to people, almost sounds like a scene and
20:42
Speaker 2: stuff like the song I Need The Morning After. I
20:47
Speaker 2: guess I can say what the project is about since
20:49
Speaker 2: it's happening into music. The Morning After symbole life is
20:53
Speaker 2: death in a metaphor of way. It's not death physically,
20:57
Speaker 2: but death spiritually. It's about death of a person's character,
21:02
Speaker 2: the innocence of who they were before going through a hardship,
21:05
Speaker 2: whether it's the death of relationship the worst, whether it's
21:09
Speaker 2: the depth of their innocence about the being assaulted, or
21:13
Speaker 2: even I don't know, even losing a loved one, which
21:17
Speaker 2: I did experience, you know, two a while real three
21:21
Speaker 2: because I'm not the wors but my parents divorced one
21:23
Speaker 2: that's a kid. So but meeting the Morning After was
21:26
Speaker 2: therapeutic for me because at one point music was still
21:31
Speaker 2: thing that saved my life. I didn't have the best
21:35
Speaker 2: mental health unfortunately, because I went through some tremado stuff.
21:40
Speaker 2: And besides leading, I always come to music ever since
21:44
Speaker 2: I was a kid.
21:44
Speaker 1: I was six.
21:45
Speaker 2: My dad would put out songs from the fifties, the sixties,
21:49
Speaker 2: the seventies and just listen to people like Billie Holliday,
21:54
Speaker 2: Kylie Thomas, Elvis Presley, Frank Sinatra, some thing above God music.
22:02
Speaker 2: It just sounded to me.
22:03
Speaker 1: It just spoke to me. It's you know, you.
22:08
Speaker 2: Ever had experience like so.
22:10
Speaker 1: When I was teaching in an urban school in Dayton,
22:15
Speaker 1: the kids would always make fun of me because they'd
22:17
Speaker 1: come in in the morning and I'd be listening to
22:19
Speaker 1: my Motown playlist and I was like, I love the Supremes,
22:23
Speaker 1: I love like I for one thing, my mom used
22:28
Speaker 1: to love me watch Dirty Dancing every night when I
22:30
Speaker 1: couldn't sleep. So a lot of that music it's in
22:32
Speaker 1: that movie. And I love the Commodores and all of it. Like,
22:36
Speaker 1: there's nothing happier than Motown music. Motown is the best.
22:41
Speaker 1: Oh yeah. And I went and saw Motown the Musical,
22:45
Speaker 1: the Broadway production, and I had the best time. And
22:51
Speaker 1: I think and like, Okay, one of my favorite artists
22:54
Speaker 1: is the Taylor Swift and that day tortured Poets album
23:03
Speaker 1: where it's like, this is about anger, This is about
23:06
Speaker 1: being sad that you're angry. This is about being angry
23:09
Speaker 1: that you're sad. This is about telling the people who
23:12
Speaker 1: build you up just to tear you down to fuck off.
23:16
Speaker 1: Like that resonates with me as a woman, because we
23:19
Speaker 1: love to watch a woman succeed right up until we've
23:22
Speaker 1: decided that she's reached too far and then we shove
23:25
Speaker 1: off the cliff like we did with Beyonce with Cowboy Carter,
23:28
Speaker 1: like well, how dare you try to be a country musician,
23:32
Speaker 1: And it's like Beyonce can do it all. That's what
23:34
Speaker 1: makes her Beyonce.
23:37
Speaker 2: That's so true, though, I feel like, you know, I
23:41
Speaker 2: love that you brought up Swift because ever since I
23:43
Speaker 2: was a kid, I loved Taylor Swift, especially with herb
23:45
Speaker 2: and Juliet, Like I wasn't every freaking song of her.
23:48
Speaker 2: I love Tailor Swift and sing for Beyonce, but I
23:52
Speaker 2: and that's why I made music, Like there's nothing wrong
23:57
Speaker 2: in making fun music. But I really love music that's
24:00
Speaker 2: in connected to politics, because if they co exist, you
24:04
Speaker 2: can't have music without you can't have music without it
24:11
Speaker 2: pertaining to politics. Because too, it's hard to say, even
24:15
Speaker 2: like learning about the history lend in the early nineteen hundreds,
24:19
Speaker 2: they would write comic books about things that were happening
24:21
Speaker 2: to this day. It's still art, and I try not
24:24
Speaker 2: to be stereotypical or refraining from stereotypes and in music
24:29
Speaker 2: in literally like I also write too because I feel
24:32
Speaker 2: like the moment I make my art fulfilled with stereotypes
24:37
Speaker 2: of prejudice or for example, I'm sure you heard the
24:39
Speaker 2: indie black fem in trope. You know, I haven't watched
24:43
Speaker 2: movies anymore that could pick those things, because I feel
24:46
Speaker 2: like the moment nique art that revolves in on that
24:51
Speaker 2: stereotypes of different ethnic groups is propaganda in a way,
24:54
Speaker 2: and I don't like I don't know if you saw
24:56
Speaker 2: they were calling Beyonce say a propagandas because her cowboy cutter.
25:01
Speaker 2: It was like about America, and America is the country
25:05
Speaker 2: that has it seems which is due. But the problem
25:09
Speaker 2: with I can say this is being a black woman artist.
25:12
Speaker 2: Even my friends, they will say, is like black women
25:18
Speaker 2: we have a weird, unique standing in America. It's like
25:22
Speaker 2: we can't do too much because then we'll see ass
25:26
Speaker 2: this coffee just annoying for some person to be around it.
25:32
Speaker 2: We can't be too confident, we can't be too loud
25:35
Speaker 2: about our gifts are Even Kamali Harris when she ran
25:38
Speaker 2: for presidency, people hated her so that she doesn't have
25:42
Speaker 2: what it takes too overplied. When may you qualify too underqualified,
25:46
Speaker 2: it's not going to make you qualify. So it's a
25:48
Speaker 2: weird justaposition, and I'm still figuring out and it's just
25:52
Speaker 2: annoying because I really do love Beyonce her music. I
25:58
Speaker 2: feel like, even you don't have to. I don't know
26:01
Speaker 2: if I'm making sense right now, but I like because
26:06
Speaker 2: I feel like, even what his song wanted to be,
26:08
Speaker 2: he always made music that's relevant to the times.
26:13
Speaker 1: So yeah, we did a whole episode on Cowboy Carter,
26:17
Speaker 1: and I think either I or my smarter friend al
26:21
Speaker 1: Renthia or my smarter friend Julia said that the album
26:25
Speaker 1: in it of itself is a mass like you've gone
26:28
Speaker 1: to church with Beyonce and there's some shit. She says
26:34
Speaker 1: some shit, And I said that my favorite part of
26:36
Speaker 1: that album was She's like I go. It was like
26:39
Speaker 1: she was threatening us the entire time to not like
26:43
Speaker 1: this album, Like I dare you to tell me that
26:47
Speaker 1: as a black woman, I don't have any place in
26:49
Speaker 1: country music. I dare you. And I think that's so powerful.
26:56
Speaker 1: I think that currently in our current political landscape, and
27:02
Speaker 1: of course everything's political. Like I said this about the
27:06
Speaker 1: most recent season of Love Is Blind, when a man
27:09
Speaker 1: was like, I just don't feel like my political and
27:12
Speaker 1: religious views being different than your political and religious views matter.
27:16
Speaker 1: And I texted my friends and I was like, the
27:19
Speaker 1: reason why white men have the privilege to say that
27:22
Speaker 1: everything's gotten too political, or that it doesn't matter if
27:26
Speaker 1: I'm a conservative and you're a liberal we can still
27:28
Speaker 1: coexist and have babies and whatnot, is because the things
27:33
Speaker 1: that I'm fighting for don't actually touch them, so of
27:37
Speaker 1: course they just get to ignore the fact that, like,
27:39
Speaker 1: I'm in support of black lives matter and gay rights
27:43
Speaker 1: and feminism and all that, and they can be like, oh, pitshposh,
27:47
Speaker 1: who cares about that? And it's like, well, the people
27:49
Speaker 1: that your people affect, the people who your people decide,
27:55
Speaker 1: don't get to have rights. That's why we're fighting. And
27:58
Speaker 1: you're sitting there going it's fine if you're fighting. I
28:01
Speaker 1: just don't feel like I have.
28:02
Speaker 2: To yeah, that's so true. And okay, this kind of
28:07
Speaker 2: discussed me. But I kind I used to be a
28:12
Speaker 2: little conservative. I didn't know you, but I was sixteen.
28:16
Speaker 1: I had a conservative moment.
28:20
Speaker 2: But I and this is why I need music. I
28:23
Speaker 2: need to mead because I was very religious. I grew
28:27
Speaker 2: up in a religious house, so I don't along that
28:30
Speaker 2: any religious relief and not be caustic anyways. But the
28:33
Speaker 2: reason I toy I balk to it is because I
28:36
Speaker 2: remember watching these people on YouTube like saying Trump is
28:39
Speaker 2: like the Savior. He's going to tie LGBTQ, so that
28:43
Speaker 2: makes him like this really whole saint right, And I'm
28:49
Speaker 2: thinking to myself, I have gay people, my feelings, so
28:52
Speaker 2: I feel like when I was sixteen, that's when I
28:54
Speaker 2: started to questionings and I'm like, I don't like how
28:57
Speaker 2: go speaking out gay people. So that's strike number one.
28:59
Speaker 2: And unto I'll never forget. It was when George Floyd
29:03
Speaker 2: all you know, the Black Lives Matter, he was murdered
29:07
Speaker 2: by police officers. And I was watching this church which
29:09
Speaker 2: I had been watching for years now. It was this
29:12
Speaker 2: white pastor and he said, I don't know why people
29:16
Speaker 2: are looting destroying businesses all for some God, and it
29:22
Speaker 2: really struck in there for me because I'm like thinking, oh,
29:25
Speaker 2: my God, like, no way you can be a pastor.
29:28
Speaker 2: They have this credit for a man like that. And
29:32
Speaker 2: it's sad because you know, Americans, religion is deeply embedded
29:38
Speaker 2: that culture. Every Sunday we go to church, not going
29:42
Speaker 2: to Sunday. It's like a scandal in itself with some
29:44
Speaker 2: churches because they're like, Oh, you don't really care about
29:46
Speaker 2: God like that. You're like hethen, you know all that stuff.
29:50
Speaker 2: And the reason why I say that is because it's
29:53
Speaker 2: really hard because religion isn't embedded in African American music history,
29:58
Speaker 2: so it's kind of like it's a beautiful thing, but
30:01
Speaker 2: also it's a beautiful thing but can also be sad
30:06
Speaker 2: because knowing the history of how Christianity was introduced to
30:09
Speaker 2: Africans and how there's that guilty conscious for those who
30:15
Speaker 2: choose to leave from the religion because it's hard to
30:19
Speaker 2: still feel connected to the community that worships something that
30:24
Speaker 2: doesn't resonate with me. You know, there's not many black
30:29
Speaker 2: Betheas or agnostics I know, and I think that to
30:32
Speaker 2: myself becauss asady subject and I feel like the way
30:38
Speaker 2: that we adore God. We all not dore God, but
30:45
Speaker 2: the way that many of the raised this the way
30:47
Speaker 2: that Christians adores Trump or no, the way that Reprobaicans
30:52
Speaker 2: adore Trump is the same way they adore white superencis
30:59
Speaker 2: because Christianity is so embedded into life supremacy. And that's
31:04
Speaker 2: why I decided to make music that I want to do.
31:08
Speaker 2: Because for a thousands, for about hundreds of years, everyone
31:14
Speaker 2: was taught to worship.
31:17
Speaker 1: Anything.
31:18
Speaker 2: That was why we were taught to separate from our culture,
31:23
Speaker 2: separate from our skin bleed, trusting and change. I hear
31:26
Speaker 2: our genetic makeup to even the thing that moved us intrinsically,
31:33
Speaker 2: like our rhythm are blues. We were told, oh, too depressing,
31:38
Speaker 2: too strong, you can't sing it, but only for it
31:41
Speaker 2: to be replicated by the same people that told us
31:43
Speaker 2: saying us. And I feel that's why I make classical music,
31:47
Speaker 2: That's why I make rock, because I mean, give me
31:49
Speaker 2: something that was once taken from my people. I'm not
31:55
Speaker 2: saying that white people didn't create classical music, because they definitely,
32:00
Speaker 2: they definitely did make that genre. But I'm saying that
32:05
Speaker 2: in a sense, I add Rob at classical be piece.
32:08
Speaker 2: There are black musicians who also had a piece in
32:12
Speaker 2: making classical music to what it is today. And I
32:16
Speaker 2: feel like as a real artist, every artist goes through this,
32:20
Speaker 2: not a real artist, because I'm still worry I'm not.
32:21
Speaker 2: Some artists pown to that, you know, because there are
32:24
Speaker 2: many things I have to learn. But I feel like
32:26
Speaker 2: we all go through this time period about the theater, musician, painter, writer.
32:31
Speaker 2: We all go through this period where we are discovering
32:36
Speaker 2: who we are, which will lead to the art we make,
32:41
Speaker 2: because it all ties back down to who am I,
32:45
Speaker 2: What art am I making? Who am I speaking to?
32:49
Speaker 2: Even in this one song I wrote when I was seventeen,
32:52
Speaker 2: I wrote, I don't know me anymore? And that song
32:56
Speaker 2: came because I remember I was. I was very really
33:00
Speaker 2: I was a religious sell it. I carried my Bible
33:03
Speaker 2: to school. It was doing too much at that point,
33:05
Speaker 2: you know, well so much. I was like, oh girl,
33:09
Speaker 2: under I'm like, I like through other things too, But
33:13
Speaker 2: I learned that you can't. My dad always tell me
33:17
Speaker 2: you can't force people to come to God. You are
33:21
Speaker 2: not God if you can't manage yourself all these gets
33:24
Speaker 2: to manage other people, you know. And I remember I
33:28
Speaker 2: was sixteen after going through a depression because the Process
33:33
Speaker 2: suicide episode. I was sixteen and I said, Okay, whatever
33:39
Speaker 2: the song that I'm going to meet, I'm gonna make it.
33:43
Speaker 2: I'm gonna listen to me because I felt in order
33:45
Speaker 2: to be a good singer, I ever had to make
33:47
Speaker 2: Christian music, you know, because I was taught if it's
33:50
Speaker 2: not a God, then it's not going to be good.
33:53
Speaker 2: And so I'm making music. And then a year past
33:57
Speaker 2: and I'm sitting down. I was writing songs, but everything
34:03
Speaker 2: spoke to you like this one. And I said, to God,
34:07
Speaker 2: my ancestors, I said, please give me a song idea
34:11
Speaker 2: and I'll listen. And I was doing my homework and
34:14
Speaker 2: I heard this melody in my head and I took
34:17
Speaker 2: up this paper and I started writing the lyrics. So
34:19
Speaker 2: I don't know me anymore. Walks throughout across I'm losing
34:23
Speaker 2: the side of my dream as getting hard to see.
34:27
Speaker 2: It's like ever since then that happened, more and more
34:30
Speaker 2: usic ideas has come. And I think when artists truly
34:36
Speaker 2: decide to stop putting in a box that they would
34:39
Speaker 2: never intended to fix, that's when the real art comes,
34:42
Speaker 2: you know.
34:43
Speaker 1: I think that it's so powerful when you finally take
34:49
Speaker 1: that moment to ground into yourself. I was taking a
34:54
Speaker 1: screenwriting class and they asked what our why was behind
34:58
Speaker 1: why we write? And I was like, well, I write
35:02
Speaker 1: because I was told that I could. Like someone just
35:04
Speaker 1: went like, you'd be good at that, and my Capricorn
35:09
Speaker 1: high ability kid brain went up. So I was already
35:11
Speaker 1: told that we're good at that, and we hate failing,
35:14
Speaker 1: so we might as well do this. And so I
35:19
Speaker 1: had to go back and I had to like look
35:21
Speaker 1: at outlines and look at scripts and whatnot, and finally
35:25
Speaker 1: I went, I write because I want to tell the
35:27
Speaker 1: story of women, and I want those women to be complicated,
35:31
Speaker 1: and I want to honor the women like my mother
35:35
Speaker 1: and my aunts and my grandmothers who had to put
35:38
Speaker 1: up with so much. So I could write these stories
35:42
Speaker 1: down and be a person who fights against things like
35:46
Speaker 1: misogyny and racism and homophobia and things like that. I go,
35:51
Speaker 1: my writing honors women full stop. At the end of that.
35:55
Speaker 1: There's also because I'm a comedy writer and I'm like,
35:58
Speaker 1: and I'm going to make fun of men, misogyny and
36:01
Speaker 1: patriarchy along the way because when they're fragile egos get
36:06
Speaker 1: real mad. Nothing makes me happier, Nothing makes me happier
36:10
Speaker 1: than to watch a fragile man break.
36:13
Speaker 2: Did you ever get anyone to I'm asking you if
36:18
Speaker 2: for advice, like, how did you ever? Did you ever
36:21
Speaker 2: get anyone who tried to discourage you from tapping into it?
36:25
Speaker 1: You know, it's growing up in the Midwest, and like
36:29
Speaker 1: small town Midwest USA, you get taught that they were like,
36:34
Speaker 1: you're not really discouraged, but you're not encouraged. It's just
36:38
Speaker 1: kind of like this middle ground where it's like, well,
36:41
Speaker 1: the special people get to do that. The special people
36:44
Speaker 1: get to make art, and you just wake up one
36:46
Speaker 1: day and everyone knows that you're special. And if you
36:50
Speaker 1: haven't been called special yet, then you get a regular
36:52
Speaker 1: person's job. You get to be a teacher or a
36:55
Speaker 1: doctor or whatever. And it's the special people that get
36:59
Speaker 1: to write and make music and singing and be in
37:02
Speaker 1: movies and things like that. So, you know, my Harry
37:06
Speaker 1: Potter Hogwarts letter never came in the mail to be
37:09
Speaker 1: like it's you, You're special and you know, And so
37:14
Speaker 1: I was never encouraged to view myself as an artist,
37:18
Speaker 1: as a creative and then my dad has told me,
37:24
Speaker 1: because with podcasting and writing about misogyny and how misogyny
37:29
Speaker 1: affects our culture while also being a person who lives
37:33
Speaker 1: under capitalism and needs a day job, he has asked me, well,
37:38
Speaker 1: do you think it's about it's what you talk about
37:41
Speaker 1: and the things that you post about online that make
37:43
Speaker 1: you unhireable, Like they look into you and they think
37:47
Speaker 1: that you're going to be a lot because of the
37:50
Speaker 1: of the feminism and the podcast and at all. And
37:53
Speaker 1: I went, that's not a fault in me. That's a
37:57
Speaker 1: fault in the system that I'm talking about. Like if
38:01
Speaker 1: men are going from my LinkedIn to my Instagram and going, whoa,
38:06
Speaker 1: she loves women of all people, and then they're not
38:11
Speaker 1: hiring me. Or if an exhausted woman who's living underpatriarchy
38:17
Speaker 1: comes to my page and is like, oh my god,
38:19
Speaker 1: she's just going to be a ballbuster in this office
38:22
Speaker 1: all day and that's going to annoy the men who
38:24
Speaker 1: will eventually annoy me. That's not actually my flaw, that's
38:29
Speaker 1: the flaw in the system. It's the flaw of the
38:32
Speaker 1: system that I'm talking about. So, yeah, it's weird, how
38:35
Speaker 1: insidious and discouragement comes through. And how Also the way
38:41
Speaker 1: that I get discouraged is that no one wants to
38:45
Speaker 1: be in conversation with me about what I'm doing except
38:48
Speaker 1: for my other creative friends. So if I'm talking about
38:52
Speaker 1: a script that I'm writing, or a podcast episode that
38:55
Speaker 1: I'm producing, or a new creative connection I've made, the
38:59
Speaker 1: answers I get normally are, well, I don't know anything
39:02
Speaker 1: about that, and then it's like full stop, we're not
39:04
Speaker 1: going further who, We're not asking questions. It's so the
39:10
Speaker 1: unspoken thing is I don't know anything about that, and
39:14
Speaker 1: I don't want to know anything about that. And then
39:17
Speaker 1: the unspoken thing beyond that is which means I don't
39:20
Speaker 1: actually want to know anything about the work you're doing.
39:24
Speaker 2: That's so annoying. And you know, honestly, the thing that
39:28
Speaker 2: annoys me is there's always going to be those groups
39:30
Speaker 2: of people, especially people you would think that would support you,
39:33
Speaker 2: they don't even support you when it comes to that,
39:35
Speaker 2: and it's just annoying. I I have just brought up
39:40
Speaker 2: a memory.
39:40
Speaker 1: I'm just like, no, I have I have a fantastic uncle,
39:44
Speaker 1: one of my mom and i'most brothers where it doesn't
39:47
Speaker 1: matter what you sit down to talk to him about
39:50
Speaker 1: he because he's so knowledgeable. He's read an book about it,
39:54
Speaker 1: he's listened to an NPR episode about it. He just
39:57
Speaker 1: saw John Stewart talk to you about it, and he
40:00
Speaker 1: loves to dive deep in with you. So I told
40:03
Speaker 1: him I had just like wrapped up my sitcom writing
40:06
Speaker 1: class or whatever, and he was like, well, you know, Nadley,
40:08
Speaker 1: I just would listened to an NPA. Nope, it was
40:11
Speaker 1: a book. I just read a book, and I think
40:13
Speaker 1: it was a nonfiction book. I think it was a
40:15
Speaker 1: memoir and one of the characters it revolved around several people,
40:19
Speaker 1: and one of the people just talked the entire time
40:22
Speaker 1: about how writing is something that you have to do,
40:25
Speaker 1: but it's something that kills you and tortures you the
40:28
Speaker 1: entire time that you're doing it. And I was like yeah,
40:32
Speaker 1: and he's like, so how do you combat that? And
40:34
Speaker 1: we had and I told my mom, I go, that
40:37
Speaker 1: was the first time anyone's asked me that shares my DNA,
40:41
Speaker 1: what my process looks like and how I get over
40:45
Speaker 1: blocks and what and why the work is important to me.
40:49
Speaker 1: And I go, y'all, sit on, that's cool. Nadley and
40:54
Speaker 1: then you leave it there and that's.
40:57
Speaker 2: An awesome feeling. I family members who work with you,
41:04
Speaker 2: and they've asked and being like, what are you working on?
41:06
Speaker 2: And it is a good feeling because like not having
41:10
Speaker 2: people who should prove you it is really cool. It
41:13
Speaker 2: is and I feel like to have people who will
41:16
Speaker 2: always be there for you, not just saying all, good job,
41:19
Speaker 2: but actually, hey, what is something I can do?
41:23
Speaker 1: What time?
41:23
Speaker 2: What do you need for this project to happen? What
41:27
Speaker 2: resources can I show you? It's amazing.
41:30
Speaker 1: So and I think one of the ways that white
41:32
Speaker 1: supremacy keeps hold of things like music and art and
41:37
Speaker 1: television and things like that is it has us convinced
41:42
Speaker 1: that because everything has to be making money, everything has
41:46
Speaker 1: to look the same. So they'll keep Yeah, so they'll
41:50
Speaker 1: keep making Marvel movies until the day that I die,
41:53
Speaker 1: because Marvel movies make money. Yeah, great, Great's Anatomy will
41:59
Speaker 1: keep putting out episodes till probably literally I or Shonda
42:03
Speaker 1: rhymes guys. And it's because they're like, well, it works
42:08
Speaker 1: and it's making ABC money. And I talk about that
42:12
Speaker 1: all the time. I go. When we focus on the money,
42:14
Speaker 1: everything's so boring. The Marvel movies have become so sanitized
42:20
Speaker 1: and boring, and I think the last one that I
42:24
Speaker 1: even felt anything for was Black Panther and then Wakanda
42:28
Speaker 1: Forever the sequel. Absolutely, and it's a joy that we
42:33
Speaker 1: even got those two movies made in White People, USA, Disneyland.
42:41
Speaker 2: You know, that's so true because capitalism does fill originality.
42:46
Speaker 2: It forces people to do things out of survival and
42:49
Speaker 2: when you don't have the means to do it or
42:52
Speaker 2: even like for me, I Marlein, Nowed's great, but growing
42:57
Speaker 2: up I see things in bad neighborhoods. I see people
43:02
Speaker 2: who were strown out or even they died early because
43:07
Speaker 2: of you know, things that occurred there. And it's sad
43:10
Speaker 2: because I was telling my boy Thrond yesterday, I said,
43:12
Speaker 2: there's so many brilliant people in these projects quote unquote
43:16
Speaker 2: projects the head, but they're most likely they are enough.
43:23
Speaker 2: We're going to be recognized because either someone willcate their talent,
43:27
Speaker 2: use their voice or their artistry and masking that's their
43:30
Speaker 2: own and they won't have any money to fight a
43:33
Speaker 2: lawsuit because it's harder then arder to navigate that, or
43:37
Speaker 2: they probably do want to become musicians, but they don't
43:40
Speaker 2: have the resources to do so because the situations that
43:44
Speaker 2: makes it harder for them to access it. And I
43:48
Speaker 2: really say, white subpency is the depth about it really
43:53
Speaker 2: is the death of other civilizations when you think about it,
43:56
Speaker 2: because even like the hair project, I was told I
44:02
Speaker 2: remember I was working in this phone story. They told
44:04
Speaker 2: me for wearing my app so I can wear that
44:06
Speaker 2: because that will make the customers uncomfortable. Taught to use
44:10
Speaker 2: parents and relaxis that can cause cancer later on. It
44:13
Speaker 2: literally creates death to everything, even music too, music that
44:18
Speaker 2: sells in mainstream for Black Americans, anything that's derogatory. You
44:24
Speaker 2: never you really see black artists nowadays making mean. You
44:30
Speaker 2: have them there, but they're not as propelled in the
44:32
Speaker 2: media as opposed to artists who rap about vulgar stuff.
44:36
Speaker 2: And there's nothing wrong with that, you know, art doesn't
44:38
Speaker 2: have a limit, But it becomes a problem when you
44:41
Speaker 2: limit other artists to propel something that takes other people deaf.
44:46
Speaker 2: You know, it's I don't know if that makes sense,
44:50
Speaker 2: and I don't know, I don't know. I feel like
44:53
Speaker 2: none of the sense.
44:54
Speaker 1: And I think like, as a white person in America,
44:58
Speaker 1: the one thing that with be the most dangerous for
45:01
Speaker 1: me to do is to not enter conversations and to
45:05
Speaker 1: not talk openly about how white supremacy has killed culture
45:10
Speaker 1: and cultures in our lifetime. And you know, one time
45:16
Speaker 1: at book club we read The Other Black Girl and
45:20
Speaker 1: they had just adapted it for Hulu. And the twist
45:25
Speaker 1: of the Other Black Girl is that they were they
45:28
Speaker 1: were dullifying the like black culture out of these women
45:35
Speaker 1: through hair product. And I was sitting with a bunch
45:37
Speaker 1: of white people and I was like, you know, that's
45:40
Speaker 1: so interesting. I go. The metaphor is so strong there
45:43
Speaker 1: because of how our culture and how our culture country
45:48
Speaker 1: views black women's hair blank faces. And I'm like, I go,
45:53
Speaker 1: do you guys? I was like, Oh, do you guys
45:55
Speaker 1: not know about the hair movement and black women reclaiming
45:59
Speaker 1: the right it's to wearing their natural hair and stuff
46:03
Speaker 1: blank faces? And I was like, oh no. And I've
46:07
Speaker 1: had other white people tell me before, like, well, I'm
46:09
Speaker 1: not comfortable about talking about that because someone from that
46:14
Speaker 1: culture isn't representing the culture here with us. I go,
46:18
Speaker 1: so we as two white people can't talk about how
46:20
Speaker 1: we've ruined things because I'm ready to talk about how
46:23
Speaker 1: we how we've ruined things.
46:25
Speaker 2: Like no, that's I love that. First of all, thank
46:28
Speaker 2: you for being an advocate for us. I think it
46:32
Speaker 2: really does be happy to see that as someone who
46:35
Speaker 2: speak who isn't afrae to speak up as politics, especially
46:38
Speaker 2: as someone who benefits from the system. You don't have
46:41
Speaker 2: to do that, but you chose to do that, and
46:43
Speaker 2: I appreciate that because I hate when people say that. Oh,
46:48
Speaker 2: I mean, when I was in a greate someone said that,
46:50
Speaker 2: why do we sell them? Lussay to happen? A long
46:53
Speaker 2: time ago I had another and growing up, believe you
46:56
Speaker 2: down the white ear from a good quarter two thirds
47:00
Speaker 2: of my life. I'm twenty, so hearing the words that,
47:04
Speaker 2: oh you're lucky you wear horse here the N word.
47:07
Speaker 2: You can imagine how a black girl who not only
47:12
Speaker 2: is told many times of how she's ugly because of
47:15
Speaker 2: her Dirk skin, her actrid scents of features, but set
47:19
Speaker 2: shows as well that passed dark woman as the you know,
47:23
Speaker 2: the the supposed to go black girl trope. It really
47:26
Speaker 2: does break you self esteem. And it took me a
47:31
Speaker 2: long time to replain my roots, even separating myself from Christianity,
47:35
Speaker 2: because it was hard for me to stud with the
47:38
Speaker 2: religion that said yes to you, or it was hard
47:44
Speaker 2: for me to except Christianity knowing that my incestors didn't
47:46
Speaker 2: have a right to practice her own. They were strict
47:50
Speaker 2: from me. And I don't like it because it all,
47:54
Speaker 2: It all, sir, goes back to art. How you portray people.
47:58
Speaker 2: If you're portraying stereotyze to each race. If I'm just
48:02
Speaker 2: pretraying to stereotype to this person or to this person,
48:05
Speaker 2: this person. Everyone knows TV influences people. That's why they're
48:09
Speaker 2: in the super Bowl. They pay millions of dollars send
48:11
Speaker 2: for these people. If I'm going up, especially in the
48:14
Speaker 2: era where I'm not exposed to different people of different races,
48:18
Speaker 2: and I'm only seeing this TV show that shows that
48:20
Speaker 2: person of a different race that's going to attack my
48:23
Speaker 2: mind over time, you thin think that's how we are
48:25
Speaker 2: right and this is why we need DEI a lot.
48:28
Speaker 2: I can say DEI is not important. DI makes other
48:34
Speaker 2: voices heard. It doesn't eliminate one voice. So there's no
48:38
Speaker 2: such thing as oh, this is the only right way.
48:41
Speaker 2: And I know it sounds like I'm talking Jim Lush
48:43
Speaker 2: to hear me out. Do you know that one versus
48:46
Speaker 2: Christianity says, I'm the way that true in the light. Okay,
48:51
Speaker 2: So take that concept right and think about how white
48:56
Speaker 2: supremacists they went to most countries. They went to India,
48:59
Speaker 2: they went to a said, they went to Africa. They
49:02
Speaker 2: forced into the Americas as well, the indigenous right. They
49:07
Speaker 2: told everyone to adopt their customs and taught them to
49:11
Speaker 2: strip themselves because they have the answer to everything. And
49:16
Speaker 2: when you think about even oh, this whole conspiracy thing,
49:19
Speaker 2: what aliens and stuff like aliens. I don't believe in aliens.
49:24
Speaker 2: I don't want to believe in aliens. Okay, But when
49:27
Speaker 2: you think about how the confortable buildings they come to earth,
49:30
Speaker 2: they colonize, they destroyed, they do all these things. It's
49:35
Speaker 2: really a projection of everything that has been done in history.
49:40
Speaker 2: And you know, I don't hate like a white people think,
49:43
Speaker 2: oh my god, she hates white people. You know, I
49:45
Speaker 2: don't hate white people. I love white people. I don't
49:48
Speaker 2: like white supremacists because even through art sprays weren't allowed
49:54
Speaker 2: to sing. Sometimes because when they were singing, I learned
49:57
Speaker 2: something when they were single or even they hear us
50:00
Speaker 2: in the form of fashion as a way to escape.
50:03
Speaker 2: Singing was the sign whenever I forgout what song specific
50:08
Speaker 2: song of us, but whenever someone was about to escape
50:10
Speaker 2: or prepare for all the ult they will sing to
50:13
Speaker 2: God as a way to come together before they were
50:16
Speaker 2: prepared for the battle. That's why when people say even
50:20
Speaker 2: a controvers will take that art is not important. If
50:23
Speaker 2: you're majoring at art, you're an idiot. No art is important.
50:27
Speaker 2: It may not be important to think that always the
50:29
Speaker 2: greatest way to get risky. But if you can't understand
50:33
Speaker 2: as this, you can't understand communities, how the hell you
50:36
Speaker 2: think you're going to be able to be a doctor
50:37
Speaker 2: When they start planning porn and saying that, oh, you
50:39
Speaker 2: can't be a doctor because you're you're not from this country,
50:42
Speaker 2: or you can't be a doctor because you're black, therefore
50:45
Speaker 2: you're underqualified. It affects us all.
50:48
Speaker 1: And this whole idea of classical music always belonged to
50:53
Speaker 1: white people because we only heard about the white people
50:55
Speaker 1: who made classical music. I tell people all the time
50:59
Speaker 1: that the education that we are delivered as children is purposeful,
51:03
Speaker 1: and its purpose is to keep us comfortable with white
51:07
Speaker 1: supremacy and misogyny and all of the things that got
51:10
Speaker 1: Trump into office and Elon musk Bridge and Jeff Bezos
51:14
Speaker 1: rich and all of it the like. Gone are the
51:19
Speaker 1: days where some hippie, well meaning teacher has the time
51:25
Speaker 1: to radicalize her fourth graders, Like that teacher on recess
51:30
Speaker 1: she does like she's tired, and she's not allowed and
51:34
Speaker 1: she's got to teach to tests and she's got to
51:37
Speaker 1: like her entire paycheck revolves around whether or not her
51:40
Speaker 1: test scores prove that she's a good teacher. And they
51:44
Speaker 1: do not take into consideration how many of your kids
51:47
Speaker 1: are on free and reduced lunch, how many of your
51:50
Speaker 1: kids are coming from an okay home emotionally, physically, and mentally.
51:55
Speaker 1: And no, it's just it's all about output. So of
51:59
Speaker 1: course we never knew that black people made classical music.
52:03
Speaker 1: It doesn't go along with their their narrative. We have
52:08
Speaker 1: to see, we have to seek out that information.
52:11
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, in order and that's something I also
52:14
Speaker 2: figure it out. In order to keep stereotypes alive, they
52:18
Speaker 2: have to manipulate situations that are aligned with the service.
52:21
Speaker 2: Black people are uneducated, well, you killed their ancestors, wants
52:26
Speaker 2: to educate themselves. Black people they're potical aggressive, well, I
52:33
Speaker 2: mean imagine the borsonous situation for hundreds of more hundreds
52:39
Speaker 2: of years where you were abused to the most gualforms
52:43
Speaker 2: of fashion and was told that if you were to
52:45
Speaker 2: fight back, you would go to help. How do you
52:48
Speaker 2: think that affects the mind. That's warfare, not just physical warfare,
52:53
Speaker 2: but psychological warfare, biological warfare. When they stript black farmers
52:59
Speaker 2: from money, took their food, land away from them, all
53:03
Speaker 2: sorts of things. And then let's not even get into
53:05
Speaker 2: the medical warfare of the Tuskegee experiments, of what they
53:09
Speaker 2: did to black prisoners. And I think I don't believe
53:14
Speaker 2: in all black people are better than white people.
53:19
Speaker 1: No.
53:19
Speaker 2: I think the problem is because I believe everyone. I
53:24
Speaker 2: wasn't taught to hate others by my parents. Some parents
53:27
Speaker 2: told me you love everyone, you love and treat everyone equally.
53:31
Speaker 2: I think the problem is white supremacy created a safe
53:35
Speaker 2: space for mediocrely to live that would never someone exceeded.
53:38
Speaker 2: They punished them for it. They stript because think about it,
53:43
Speaker 2: even like you noticed how they go to every country,
53:47
Speaker 2: every country they went to water, the Americas, they had gold, spices, Asia,
53:51
Speaker 2: they had ivory, India. I know they have something because.
53:57
Speaker 1: They got died. They made eyes for the silk. Yes, yes,
54:03
Speaker 1: I have a friend who's not a historical customer. I'm like,
54:06
Speaker 1: I know what's in India. It's the silk.
54:10
Speaker 2: I love dad now. But every country day went to
54:14
Speaker 2: it was because they were looking for something, because they
54:17
Speaker 2: didn't have them. And I think over time they because
54:22
Speaker 2: I've learned about European manisce I honestly Italian. I also
54:29
Speaker 2: learned about in middle school, right, and you learn about
54:32
Speaker 2: how Grownan and even Greeks and I could be wrong.
54:36
Speaker 2: They operated in norstrips to the point where they were
54:39
Speaker 2: killing each other up. So they looked to other countries
54:43
Speaker 2: to regain themselves, and in the process they got so
54:47
Speaker 2: used to forcing people to do to work for them
54:49
Speaker 2: that they didn't want to throught. They didn't want to
54:53
Speaker 2: become a sessional. Because if I can bring someone, if
54:57
Speaker 2: I can bun someone that they're not good and that
55:00
Speaker 2: they stop trying, and that they stop believing in themselves,
55:03
Speaker 2: I'm allegating myself through the process. And so I don't know,
55:09
Speaker 2: it's too deep. I'm sorry I got people to go,
55:12
Speaker 2: but I'm so passionate about this prophet, and I will
55:15
Speaker 2: say something else, even beyond doing country music. I felt
55:21
Speaker 2: like heard bringing those black country artists. That was so
55:27
Speaker 2: beautiful because there are black people who have done country
55:31
Speaker 2: music before Beyonce, but you never really see them highlighted
55:35
Speaker 2: in that moment. And it hurts because a lot of people.
55:41
Speaker 2: I think I speak for many black women when I
55:43
Speaker 2: say this, and black men as well, but black women,
55:46
Speaker 2: because I'm a black woman, I speak for us when
55:49
Speaker 2: you say this. A lot of people think of us
55:52
Speaker 2: as angry, and we are, but it's not because we
55:57
Speaker 2: want to be angry. We aren't just born. No one
55:59
Speaker 2: is born easily, right, Okay, not what's boring angry?
56:02
Speaker 1: And I.
56:04
Speaker 2: There are some things I have to feel from that
56:07
Speaker 2: was okay that I always wondered why people would be like, oh,
56:13
Speaker 2: I can't believe there's right to come see there's recy,
56:16
Speaker 2: come see that. But I understand it. You can't. And
56:20
Speaker 2: that's the problem most people have. They get mad at
56:23
Speaker 2: us for speaking out a system, but you can't. You
56:26
Speaker 2: can't recommend me for calling out a system when it's
56:28
Speaker 2: the same system that you benefit from.
56:32
Speaker 1: That's not there.
56:33
Speaker 2: And that's why music isn't really it's really important even nowadays,
56:39
Speaker 2: more than ever because there's so much things going on.
56:42
Speaker 2: Music is the key to freedom and always is, it
56:45
Speaker 2: has always been, and they're always will be.
56:48
Speaker 1: If you I'm going to move us into our closing ceremony,
56:52
Speaker 1: if you had to impart a lesson onto the listeners
56:57
Speaker 1: to be like, if I've learned one thing about my
57:00
Speaker 1: experience in creating and composing and studying classical music, it
57:06
Speaker 1: is this, what have you learned about our world or
57:09
Speaker 1: yourself through that process?
57:13
Speaker 2: I learned not to, Okay, so I'll say this. I
57:19
Speaker 2: learned people who limit you limit themselves. And I say
57:24
Speaker 2: that because going into classical music, I was always toldal,
57:28
Speaker 2: it's going to be hard. You're not a real music
57:31
Speaker 2: composer if you didn't take music lessons, or if you
57:34
Speaker 2: play digitally or whatever. Right, But I learned that classical music,
57:38
Speaker 2: when you think about itself, it's not there's some classical
57:42
Speaker 2: music that's consistent, but if you listen to many classical music,
57:46
Speaker 2: it's always stow sad, and then it's you're never just
57:50
Speaker 2: really bored when you're listening to classical music, because it's
57:55
Speaker 2: always taking into a different route of the beat. You know,
58:00
Speaker 2: My life is life is a linear it's your life
58:05
Speaker 2: is a linear and you never know where you're going
58:07
Speaker 2: to go. So investing yourself first. Believe in yourself, and
58:13
Speaker 2: seriously something that's been working on about the same or
58:17
Speaker 2: last thing. Take yourself seriously because if you don't, no
58:22
Speaker 2: one's going to take you seriously.
58:23
Speaker 1: Right. I think my biggest takeaway from this conversation is
58:28
Speaker 1: I am reminded of a line that I have thrown
58:32
Speaker 1: out hundreds of times since she said it, but I
58:35
Speaker 1: sold this from Leah Kotb katib Off of Love Island,
58:39
Speaker 1: where she said that sounds a lot like white women scared,
58:42
Speaker 1: and I've used that against white people. I'm like, well,
58:45
Speaker 1: that sounds like white people scared. Fear is part of
58:50
Speaker 1: the oppression. It's part of the it's their number one tool.
58:53
Speaker 1: Trump welled it to become president. And now look at
58:57
Speaker 1: us all and they made us afraid of the things
59:01
Speaker 1: that we don't understand. And that's what colonization was built upon.
59:05
Speaker 1: They went into other countries and immediately went what if
59:08
Speaker 1: they don't like our way of living, oh will make
59:11
Speaker 1: them and and we're feeling those ramifications today. So if
59:18
Speaker 1: you feel uncomfortable listening or talking about these things, good.
59:23
Speaker 1: They're not comfortable subjects. Fight through it. Don't just be
59:26
Speaker 1: a white person scared your entire life.
59:30
Speaker 2: Yes, silence is violent.
59:32
Speaker 1: I mean amen, ill alu. It's why every time my
59:40
Speaker 1: seven week year old nephew is just staring into my
59:44
Speaker 1: soul like he needs me to say something. The other day,
59:47
Speaker 1: I told him how Britney Spears ended up in a conservatorship.
59:50
Speaker 1: I'm like, let me tell you how capitalism and white
59:53
Speaker 1: men got Brittany in servitude in the house that she bought, Like,
59:59
Speaker 1: because if it can happen to Brittany, it can happen
1:00:02
Speaker 1: to your gorgeous aunts. So we have to talk about it.
1:00:05
Speaker 1: Like Brittany had way more money than me, and I
1:00:09
Speaker 1: was like, oh my god, anyone could be in charge
1:00:12
Speaker 1: of my medical record.
1:00:13
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's true.
1:00:17
Speaker 1: What would be a manifestation and a hope that you
1:00:20
Speaker 1: would like to put out into the collective energy some
1:00:23
Speaker 1: one day.
1:00:24
Speaker 2: I don't want to write against my son. I would
1:00:33
Speaker 2: I say that because my former self is someone who
1:00:39
Speaker 2: would never have the coach to do things and go Now,
1:00:43
Speaker 2: even you know, even going into music after dropping out
1:00:47
Speaker 2: and being total you're gonna regret and you're never gonna
1:00:50
Speaker 2: be big telling myself that and other people thinking that.
1:00:53
Speaker 2: I don't want to prove my phone and self wrong.
1:00:56
Speaker 1: So yeah, I think what I want to manifest is
1:01:01
Speaker 1: in these trying times where it all seems hopeless, I
1:01:05
Speaker 1: hope we find the hope to then just push the barriers,
1:01:08
Speaker 1: because if they're not going to pay us for anything,
1:01:10
Speaker 1: then we don't have to play by their rules. I've
1:01:13
Speaker 1: been saying in my writing classes, everything I write down
1:01:17
Speaker 1: is play until they want to pay me for work,
1:01:21
Speaker 1: and then I'll and then I'll care about their opinions.
1:01:26
Speaker 1: So I hope that we do see a big surge
1:01:28
Speaker 1: in creativity and people taking risks, because now is the
1:01:32
Speaker 1: time for people to be taking risks because nothing matters.
1:01:36
Speaker 1: They're tearing everything down, so it's going to be us
1:01:40
Speaker 1: who have to build it up.
1:01:42
Speaker 2: We're gonna have to, Yeah, our denervation is definitely going
1:01:44
Speaker 2: to be want to build it up.
1:01:47
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, honestly, Tony, this was fantastic. Thank you
1:01:51
Speaker 1: so much for taking a chance on someone who reached
1:01:53
Speaker 1: out to you via TikTok.
1:01:55
Speaker 2: Yeah, thank you, And I you know, this is my
1:02:00
Speaker 2: first interview, so I'm sure you have your.
1:02:04
Speaker 1: Make sure that all of the listeners know where they
1:02:06
Speaker 1: can find you and support you.
1:02:08
Speaker 2: Yes, I'm studing on all platforms music. You can find
1:02:12
Speaker 2: me under Lady Litel so that will be l ed,
1:02:15
Speaker 2: you know, Lady l A d Y and entitles l
1:02:18
Speaker 2: E I D E O, and I'm on Spotify, Apple Music.
1:02:22
Speaker 2: I saw among student platforms.
1:02:24
Speaker 1: So awesome, and I will make sure to link that
1:02:28
Speaker 1: all in the show notes and then you can find
1:02:31
Speaker 1: us at men. I've tolerated pod on Instagram and nat
1:02:35
Speaker 1: Lee Kay one two four on a bunch of different
1:02:38
Speaker 1: platforms that are my personal social medias that are also
1:02:42
Speaker 1: just open to people because we're just cross uh posting
1:02:45
Speaker 1: at this point. We're on YouTube, We're on Pinterest, We're
1:02:50
Speaker 1: on all of them. Just find us and remember, tolerators,
1:02:55
Speaker 1: you don't have to smile through anything you're tolerating, including
1:02:59
Speaker 1: three white men who have used an abusive system to
1:03:02
Speaker 1: tell you that your work and your art isn't valued
1:03:06
Speaker 1: and isn't validated. Smiles are for joy