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Starting Solids Anxiety: What to Feed Your Baby with Petit Gourmet Academy · Dam Parenting

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Welcome back to Down Parenting, and welcome to day two of our 12
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Days of Christmas. Maybe today you're en route, or
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maybe you've arrived, or maybe you're just watching someone
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else travel while you stay exactly where you are.
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Wherever you're listening from your village is still here.
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These episodes are part of our Christmas Support pack.
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Not advice, not pressure, just conversations that make this
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season feel a little less heavy. Day 2 is for the emotional side
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of going home, and what it's like to return may be changed.
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In today's episode, we're talking about going home for the
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holidays, not just being a trip, but also being emotional.
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We return not just as ourselves, but as parents, carrying new
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roles, new responsibilities, and sometimes very old expectations.
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In this episode, Doctor Naomi Gibson helps us map the
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emotional landscape of going back home while raising our own
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families. And her table is nostalgia, but
0:57
the reality of who we are now. So going home for Christmas can
1:02
trigger memories from the past and it can bring us into contact
1:07
with the unconscious feelings that are actually rooted in our
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childhood. I know for me it does.
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So we have Doctor Naomi Gibson back with us.
1:14
Hi, Naomi. Hello.
1:16
Hi. I think it's not just like for
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Christmas. This is for every single holiday
1:20
that we're going to go back to one of the parents homes.
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And Christmas is is especially a very stressful and emotional
1:27
time for many. And emotions I think are like
1:29
triggered by the interactions we can have with our family.
1:33
And I think going back with our child.
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Now as a parent, we figured this episode was paramount for you to
1:40
be able to now help us navigate this specific field.
1:44
I guess as it would be. Let's just first talk about
1:47
stepping back into like those childhood shoes.
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So when we go back to our family and we enter into that house,
1:52
first of all, we're entering into that house just as
1:54
ourselves and we're entering into that kind of childhood
1:56
thing. Is there something you can talk
1:58
to us about about that? Like is there some way you can
2:00
help us not be fitting into those size 2 shoes because we're
2:03
now adults and can we now come in as an adult and see ourselves
2:07
as an adult now? Well, it's very difficult, isn't
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it? In psychology we have these
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terms about systems, so we all operate in different systems.
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So you have like your parent child system, you might have a
2:18
husband wife system, you might be a sister and have a brother.
2:24
But when you go back as a parent, you're also a parent and
2:27
a child. Basically.
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All that to say is it's really complicated and messy.
2:32
And you might have your sort of feel quite comfortable in your
2:35
role as a parent to your child. But then when you are a child to
2:39
your parent, you might be able, you might just behave in a
2:41
different way. And yeah, to just kind of expect
2:45
some complexity with that. It's a really well known kind of
2:49
phenomenon that when we go into those family dynamics, even if
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they were on the most part like healthy and not traumatic, which
2:58
is certainly not everybody's experience, it's complicated to
3:02
enter those systems in a different way.
3:04
Yeah. Something I was keeping in my
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mind is that your parents know how to push your buttons because
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they put them there for you. They know, they know the kind of
3:12
that that might trigger you or make you feel uncomfortable or
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or be sort of difficult because, you know, they were designed in
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your family. Yeah.
3:21
I can see you smiling. Marin.
3:22
Is that have you noticed your buttons being pushed?
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Yeah, I was just, yeah, it was. So you're funny when you said
3:28
this, that your parents know your buttons because they put
3:31
them there. I was like, yeah, yeah.
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And then also your siblings, because I have siblings, your
3:37
siblings also know your bottoms and vice versa.
3:39
So it's really this whole, everyone's playing each other
3:43
like a big piano piece. Yeah.
3:45
And when you were saying this about the systems, I feel like I
3:48
have to wear all these different hats.
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That's my, I'm now the child. But at the same time, I want to
3:54
be independent from this relationship of with my parent,
3:57
like with my mother then. And then at the same time, what
4:00
I also find so difficult is the dynamic that I have with my
4:06
husband and my new family, with my child, like us three, and
4:11
then navigating this within my original family.
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And then I get into this weird dynamic.
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I kind of, and this always shows that I mean in in conflict, like
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who do I back up? You know, whose back do I have
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when I put it like to the extreme or what?
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What is the the fear that I carry with me when I go into
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these situations that if there's any conflict that who do I back
4:37
up? Is it going to be my, my, my
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sister and my mom and this original family, which I may
4:43
agree on certain things with, or is it then my husband and my, my
4:48
child? It's like this, this weird
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balance that you have to. I don't want to disappoint
4:53
anyone. That's the bottom line.
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So I don't want to disappoint any relationship.
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And at the same time, I want to stay true to myself and back, be
5:01
there for my child and not make my husband feel abandoned or my.
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It's like this whole. It really is complicated, that's
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why. We're having this conversation
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because I was like, I cannot be the only one who feels like
5:12
this. And it just makes my head
5:14
explode when I think about all these.
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Yeah, like these systems that you and kind of.
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Are you trying to get free therapy from Doctor Naomi?
5:22
No, no, no, no, no, you can't. It's not about me.
5:27
But yeah, these these systems are, it's not so often that you
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have such an obvious conflict between your different roles as
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the when you go back to your family, family home or indeed
5:39
like your partner's family home or something like that.
5:41
Like it really puts into sharp focus what your different roles
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are. And yeah, sometimes that means
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entering a different system and backing somebody up or saying,
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I'm not going to get involved in this because we are our own
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family now. It's really hard.
5:57
And I can't remember who described this.
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The psychologist described it as the family dance.
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So when you're growing up, everyone knows the the role that
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they play in the family dance. And then when we have our own
6:10
families, we have a naturally take on a new dance, you know,
6:14
and say when you go back, your your family of origin might be
6:17
doing some kind of foxtrot, but you're now used to a samba.
6:21
The rhythms don't match. Then you've maybe got your in
6:24
laws and they're, you know, they're doing a waltz and it's
6:26
all just messy. People are bumping into each
6:29
other. Yeah, sometimes it looks like
6:31
just sort of taking a step back and maybe slowing down the
6:34
rhythm of the dance to carry on that metaphor, just to sort of
6:37
see it for what it is, a complex lot of systems all acting
6:41
together. I was going to say I had a
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really messy. Beautiful.
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Mine was basically we're, we're grown up into adults, but now
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we've moved to a different country.
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So now we're mixing with a lot of international families.
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Plus we have the Dutch, plus we have this new, what are they
7:01
called, the gentle parenting generation.
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And we're trying to break cycles like, and then we want to be
7:06
organic and we want to be sustainable.
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We want to save the earth. And there's so much happening
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and we're kind of living in this bubble of like who we are right
7:13
now. And then going back home and
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it's like, you know, here's your dinner and you're like, oh, we
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don't actually eat that. Or, you know, is this, you know,
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free range or do you have keno at home?
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You know, you have these kind of things and you're kind of going,
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I'm a very different person. And that's one of the things I
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remember like a long time ago when I left home at a younger
7:35
age. And I remember going back and I
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remember kind of sitting there feeling like a complete
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outsider, looking at my friends and my family and kind of
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thinking, I, I don't do any of this.
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Like I, you know, I, I don't know, I felt so distant.
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And now, like when I go to my family with my daughter, my
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whole thing is like, I just want to make sure we stick with our
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routine for my daughter. I, you know, I just want to make
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sure she has her safety mechanism, which are boundaries
8:03
and routines. And I'm so strict on them to the
8:06
point that we end up cooking every night or, you know, we're
8:09
having to do it all because it's like, well, if this is what we
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want for a child, we then have to do everything because we're
8:13
not going to rely on our family to do it.
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We're not going to expect them to step out of their boundaries
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and start doing stuff just because we want it that way.
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That was something I did find challenging because then it's a
8:24
case of, I think many people agree, when you have a young
8:28
child, it's not a holiday. You're taking the show on the
8:30
road. And it's actually even more so
8:33
because you're now you're doing it outside your own environment
8:35
without your utensils and your your usual, you know, setup.
8:38
Can you give us any phrases or something, you know, to be able
8:41
to kind of address our family to be kind of like, you know,
8:43
that's, you know, this is what we're doing, You know, like, oh,
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we're going to do it this way. We have dinner at this time
8:49
because this is for our child. You know, we don't wait until
8:51
9:00 for dinner now. So is there anything we can do
8:54
with that with our family to kind of be saying, you know, we
8:56
still have our routines? Yeah, I think you're, it's all
9:00
about boundaries, isn't it? And I don't know whether I'd
9:01
necessarily go to my parents or, you know, maybe you would, but I
9:05
certainly wouldn't say these are my boundaries with my child.
9:08
But maybe just what your expectations are.
9:10
You know, it could be around lots of sweets and chocolates or
9:13
something and just be like, yeah, we're we're thinking that
9:17
they might have had enough chocolate in these last few days
9:20
running up to ship to Christmas. Can we not do chocolate for
9:23
breakfast? Or, you know, just kind of just
9:25
spell out what you might be expecting or if there's certain
9:28
times, certain things about sleeping.
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Just kind of to be able to say, yeah, what you need, what your
9:34
child needs, what your family needs without it being
9:37
necessarily dictatorial. Just these are the things that
9:40
make life feel a bit smooth. Also maybe to think to yourself,
9:44
what are the things that you can loosen up as well because these
9:48
holiday times can be nice opportunities to try things out
9:54
as well. It might be that you've always
9:55
had like a 7:00 bedtime, but actually, you know, there's a
10:00
party going on and it might feel nice for the children to go to
10:02
bed later or you know, but you know, you know your child, you
10:05
know your family, you know what fits.
10:08
But just have a plan ahead. What might be the sticking
10:11
points? Because that can also look like
10:13
difficult conversations as well and having boundaries around
10:17
those. It might be that, you know, you
10:18
always tend to sway into talk about politics, but you're
10:23
feeling like that might not be the kind of atmosphere you want.
10:28
Or maybe that always leads to conflict.
10:29
Or, you know, you can just say, yeah, spending enough time
10:32
talking about that, like, let's let's move on, move the topic on
10:35
or, you know, find something amusing or funny to sort of
10:40
deflect if if that's feeling too, too hard.
10:43
Because yeah, certainly conflict does easily come up in these
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sort of family environments when everybody's sort of working out
10:50
a new, a new dance, a new way to be together.
10:53
I think it's a lot about when you were saying this about
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exploring the Gray areas more because it's like sometimes I
10:59
feel like my opinion is still black and then the other is the
11:03
white. And then we are standing there
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and we're just screaming at each other like, no, mine is right.
11:07
Mine is right. But then it's like he said,
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where's the the middle ground? What you said about how, where
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can I loosen up my boundaries and still be in the Gray area
11:16
and not transferred completely to the other side.
11:18
But really, and I think we've talked about this in another
11:21
episode, funny in this third option, right?
11:24
So really like exploring for myself at bedtime is usually it
11:30
whatever. But then how can I stretch it
11:33
that I still feel comfortable or what can I adjust in the next
11:36
morning? So really like more into these
11:39
experiments and options. What, what am I still
11:42
comfortable with and where can I let go?
11:45
And I guess what's also important is that sometimes I
11:48
feel, how can I still keep the connection, you know, because
11:51
sometimes like this is my view on this and this is your view on
11:56
this. But it's the end of the day, I
11:58
still want to be connected with you.
12:00
So where can we, yeah, how can we translate this into the, this
12:05
connection part into the, the needs and maybe look between or
12:08
behind. Why am I so rigid on this?
12:11
Like, what is my need behind this?
12:13
And what is maybe another way of still making sure that my need
12:18
is fulfilled, but in a different costume because I'm dancing
12:22
another dance. So what's the what's the other
12:24
costume I can put on that I still can dance my dance, but in
12:29
another way I. Guess and I wonder whether then
12:31
it would help to think about your intention, like have that
12:36
as a bit of a sort of a bullseye in, you know, what's my
12:39
intention for this trip to see family?
12:41
What's my intention for this Christmas?
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And that could be, yeah, feeling connected to family.
12:45
That could be wanting the children to have a really fun
12:50
time or spend time with grandparents, or it could be,
12:52
you know, wanting some rest. So to just come back to that
12:55
bullseye again and again, like what do I intend by this trip,
12:58
by this visiting? And then hopefully that will
13:00
lead those things. If your intention is to feel
13:03
more connected and learn a bit more about your parents in this
13:06
stage of life, then maybe you would invite more of those kind
13:09
of conversations or things that might look a bit like they could
13:11
touch on conflict. But if that's something that
13:13
feels kind of authentic and important to you as your
13:17
intention for the trip, does that make sense?
13:19
That sort of. Yeah, totally.
13:22
Yeah, I think that's good because then you can always come
13:25
back to this when you're spiralling maybe, or you're in a
13:28
situation you can remind yourself, wait a minute, stop.
13:31
What was my intention for this trip?
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How can I come back to that? I think that is.
13:35
I think that particularly helps when your intention is for your
13:39
children to have, you know, a relationship with their
13:42
grandparents, uncles, stepmother, you know, whoever it
13:45
is. Then sometimes there's a
13:48
different way that people manage things like discipline,
13:51
boundaries, emotions, all of these things.
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But actually you can kind of say, well, I did really want
13:56
them to spend time with Aunty and and she has some wacky
14:01
ideas, but they're learning about the world through her.
14:03
And, you know, that can kind of be a guiding principle.
14:07
And it can also help with that, you know, loosening the rigidity
14:10
on things like bedtime eating, stuff like that.
14:13
If you're like, yeah, my intention is for them to, you
14:16
know, learn about the culture that I come from.
14:18
When we live in a country abroad, then yeah, maybe that's
14:22
OK to stay up later and do whatever your family does on
14:25
Christmas Eve. You know, it could be loads of
14:27
different examples, but maybe have that as a bit of a guiding,
14:31
guiding light through the trip that you can kind of come back
14:34
to and rest in. Like, OK, this was my intention.
14:36
It's going a bit West and I'm feeling a bit funny, but this is
14:39
still working for me. May I ask a question for those
14:42
who are going back, especially with the newborns?
14:45
So they're going back with like very, very, very young little
14:48
babies and it's those aunts and uncles or other members of the
14:52
family, brothers and sisters or parents even.
14:55
And they just obviously want to cuddle the baby and kiss the
14:57
baby. And you're kind of like, please
14:59
don't kiss this baby. Like I just, you know, because
15:02
of the, you know, viral season or whatever it is, and
15:04
especially herpes, for example, like there's a lot of stuff that
15:07
you're like, please just don't. And The thing is, there is a
15:10
psychological thing like the cuteness thing where you really
15:13
want to kill something because you think it's so adorable or
15:16
something, I can't remember what it was called.
15:17
You want to choke like a kitten because it's so adorable.
15:21
And The thing is, it can be the same with a newborn where you're
15:23
like, I just want to hold it. I want to smell it, and I want
15:26
to kiss it. And it's like, amazing.
15:28
How can parents you know directly be able to say please
15:32
don't because there are members of families who don't listen?
15:36
Yeah, that's tricky. Yeah.
15:38
I think I'd probably think about your reasons why you don't.
15:41
If it's like, OK, they were born slightly early and they're more
15:45
vulnerable to viruses, you know, that's a completely legitimate
15:49
reason. Or maybe a family member smokes
15:51
or something like that, that you can say like, yeah, I'm just
15:53
going to keep hold of her. I'm just going to.
15:55
Or she's this is a new environment for the baby.
15:57
Like let me just hold her and you can see her from here.
16:00
You know, there's ways to communicate it.
16:01
That's not like leave my baby alone.
16:04
That's yeah, this is kind of saying, or you can almost also
16:08
say something about yourself, like put it on you like, oh,
16:10
we're just getting to know each other.
16:12
Can I just hold on or to a bit longer?
16:13
I'm feeling like she might need me and I need her, you know,
16:15
something like that. Yeah.
16:18
I think as, as much as possible, just try and communicate it in a
16:21
in a light way. And I think people do get it,
16:24
don't they, with newborns and they they need to be with other
16:26
parents. OK.
16:27
Your experience is different. Yeah.
16:29
I've spoken to a few mothers out there and they've told me some
16:31
stories where literally they could not be more clearer about
16:35
it. And the family members just,
16:38
they just don't listen and they proceed to do whatever they
16:40
intended to do in the first place.
16:42
Yeah, yeah. And it could well be the newborn
16:44
example, but it could also be, you know, giving your child
16:48
meat. When you've said that you don't
16:49
eat meat as a family, there will always be members of your family
16:52
or extended family that kind of want to step across that
16:56
boundary. And it's then kind of, you can't
16:58
control other people in this situation or ever, but you can
17:02
control yourself. So if that boundary is really
17:05
important to you, if you know you don't want strangers to kiss
17:09
your baby, you can't stop them doing that.
17:11
But you can, you can move yourself away or you can say,
17:14
no, that's not going to work right now.
17:16
Yeah. They can always sort of be a
17:18
expectation that we're going to be able to control other people
17:20
or other people are going to be able to guess what we're
17:22
thinking or know these things about us.
17:24
But sometimes it really needs to be kind of spelled out.
17:27
And if somebody's not listening, then, you know, leave or say it
17:31
again. Or, you know, I think newborn
17:33
babies are also like a really nice excuse to get some time on
17:37
your own in those in those moments at Christmas or whenever
17:40
to just be like, OK, baby needs to go and lie down and I need to
17:43
go with them. Or you need to go and feed in a
17:45
dark place or you need to take them out for a walk.
17:47
Like there's quite a few opportunities to take some space
17:49
if you needed to. I'm hoping that's going to help
17:52
ease some of the parents bringing their child back for
17:55
Christmas right now so. Yeah, maybe also like going back
17:58
to the whole, I mean, this is in my head because I'm practising
18:01
it with my toddler saying don't say no, tell them what you what
18:05
they can do something. Oh, you can't hold the baby, but
18:09
maybe don't you want to let's go out for a walk and then you can
18:12
push the stroller. I kind of like really?
18:15
Then go again. I was like, OK, I'm not
18:17
comfortable with them because maybe they smoke or whatever.
18:20
Like I'm not comfortable with them holding them.
18:22
However, I am comfortable with them having a relationship.
18:25
So how can I do this in a third way?
18:27
Let's go for a walk and you can push the pram or you can make
18:31
the bottle. Hey, I really need like so much
18:33
help right now. Why don't you go and prepare the
18:35
bottle, Stuff like that. I guess this is what I then
18:38
would come up with being in the mindset of I'm not going to tell
18:41
them no, but what what can Ioffer them?
18:44
What I'm comfortable with them doing, maybe?
18:47
Yeah. And it also I think speaks to
18:49
that as a new parent, mum or dad, you're you've got yourself
18:54
in a new system, even if it's not your first baby and you're
18:57
trying to work out your role within that space.
19:00
And then that can be very confronting if you say, got a
19:03
grandparent who wants to take over and do the things that you
19:06
were just sort of learning to do and getting comfortable with,
19:08
like to just kind of go kindly on yourself that you're learning
19:13
how to do it. And it's OK to say, yeah, to say
19:15
that, to say, I'm still learning about this and I'm kind of don't
19:19
feel comfortable with somebody else taking them right now.
19:21
Or, you know, because I think also family members can really
19:24
kindly offer, you know, I take the baby when you go to sleep or
19:28
I'll do this or why don't you go for a bath?
19:30
But actually that can feel really too much as a new parent
19:33
to be separated from your baby, even if it's from comes from a
19:36
nice place to not like reject the offer necessarily, but to
19:40
say, yeah, right now I need I need the baby close to me
19:43
because that's what feels most comfortable and take you up on a
19:46
different kind of offer. Like I'd love a cup of tea
19:49
though. Or.
19:50
Whatever it might be, yeah. Yeah, I think for like for me,
19:53
for example, definitely on my side, it's a case of when you're
19:56
in the moment. I'm sorry, but I have a brain
19:58
fog. I this is literally I'm going to
20:00
be writing these notes down like what Marin just said.
20:02
Hey, you could push the stroller or you know what you said,
20:05
Naomi, like I can't right now, but I could do with a cup of
20:08
tea, like the butts or yet like to add on to a conversation.
20:11
Like, I mean, these are things that I can't think of in the
20:14
moment. In fact, if anything, people
20:17
might accuse me of being very. I'll shut people down.
20:19
Or I'll tell them no or be too strong with them.
20:21
But it's just because I don't know how to communicate that.
20:24
I don't know how to, yeah, say it.
20:26
So like, these are really good examples to hopefully for anyone
20:31
to listen to and be kind of like, oh, that's a good one.
20:34
You know, add that to my little arsenal to be able to manage
20:37
this, what I'm about to step into.
20:39
And also maybe the coming back to the thought that I'm Speaking
20:43
of, I assume they want the best for us, right?
20:47
So it's like, what do they want? They want us to feel loved that
20:51
I'm speaking with the parents. So we're usually coming into an
20:54
environment where we think they want the best for us, they want
20:57
the best for our child, but they might not have the right tools
21:02
to communicate that or their tools, they're used to this way
21:07
of communicating because that's what they learned.
21:10
So I guess when I get frustrated with certain people in my family
21:15
or in my environment, I think, do they really try to harm me
21:18
right now? No, they they're trying to
21:21
connect, they're trying to love me.
21:23
But their way of doing it might not be what resonates with me.
21:27
But I can see the intention. I can see the core.
21:31
And now maybe I can help them here.
21:33
Maybe let's use a screwdriver instead of a hammer to get this
21:38
nail. That kind of facilitated with
21:41
other tools that we have learned now to get back to the the core
21:46
of they want the best for us, they want to help us, but they
21:50
might not know how. Yeah, and that's why when I
21:54
think about boundaries, people can often think they're really
21:56
harsh and I think they're kind. You're telling people what you
21:59
need from them. You're telling people what you
22:01
expect of yourself, what you can they can expect of you.
22:03
And that is a kindness because without that, then you're
22:07
feeling resentful, angry, frustrated with somebody, but
22:11
you haven't told them what you need.
22:12
And so how can they, how can they know they're going out with
22:16
the screwdriver and you're. Yeah, you're not telling them
22:18
it's the wrong tool. So then thinking ahead of time,
22:20
what's my negotiable things and what are my non negotiable
22:23
things? You know, be it with your child,
22:25
with yourself, with your partner.
22:27
What can you flex on and what's just a hard line?
22:29
This is what we do in our family and this is what works sort of
22:32
thing. Taking a sidestep here, for
22:35
example, if we're going back to say the mother's house and the
22:39
partner is going with them, how can the partner ensure, you
22:43
know, that they're also being heard or you know that they're
22:46
still involved because, you know, we are the mother, for
22:48
example, is going back into that dance.
22:50
But how can the other partner be able to still be themselves,
22:54
still have the position, still be the, you know, parents of the
22:56
child still have their voice heard as well.
22:59
How do we kind of how can they communicate with the other
23:02
partner and how can that partner communicate with them to be like
23:04
checking in or something to make sure that it's, you know,
23:07
everyone's being heard and it's not a case of one person's just
23:10
doing their best. Yeah, I think a certain amount
23:14
of joining the family dance should be expected.
23:17
Like if if it's your, if you're the mother and it's going back
23:20
into your parents house, there will be things that just feel
23:23
familiar, be it like traditions or just the way you eat or the
23:28
way your mum makes a coffee, whatever you, you know that.
23:31
And sometimes that needs kind of communicating or teaching to
23:34
your partner and checking in whether that's OK.
23:36
You know, these are the type of things we we do here or.
23:39
Yeah, I hadn't even realized that I was talking like that
23:42
with your parents and we hadn't. We don't do that at home.
23:44
So it's also kind of, I guess inviting people to sort of step
23:48
out of the out of the dance, step out of the the rhythm and
23:52
sort of see it for what it is sometimes, which is really hard
23:54
because we basically just get sucked up.
23:56
And, you know, the partner might feel like an outsider.
23:59
But to yeah, I think you said it to just kind of check in like
24:02
how is this feeling for you? Or you know, what do you need to
24:07
feel more comfortable or. Is that like once a day?
24:10
Or I don't know, whatever feels, whatever feels right in your
24:14
relationship. Or if you might notice that they
24:16
aren't, yeah, they aren't behaving like they would
24:19
normally or they don't seem very comfortable to kind of check in
24:21
there and vice versa. I guess what you would almost
24:24
what you would do in your relationship anyway to see how
24:27
how people are doing. I'm just thinking it's like
24:30
sometimes we could be really in the flow of that dance.
24:32
And that's the problem is like we can't see or we forget to
24:36
check in. That's that's the thing in my
24:38
head of like, oh, should it be like every night when you're
24:41
going to bed, it's like, Hey, how was your day?
24:42
And it's like, well, you know, 10 AMI was done for it.
24:45
No one was listening to me and you're kind of thinking, oh,
24:47
this is too late to check in. So.
24:50
Yeah, I guess with any of these things, it's always going to be
24:52
individual, isn't it? What happens in your own
24:54
relationships and what feels and helpful for you as a couple and
24:58
you as a family? One thing that I think also when
25:01
we were talking about this and I was like reflecting also what we
25:06
often forget is that language, literal language also plays a
25:11
big role in this because I'm going back to Germany.
25:14
So I'm speaking German with my family and my husband does
25:16
understand German. But when we're really like
25:19
talking, talking fast and then using family slang or like this,
25:22
and then he just doesn't get the full conversation.
25:26
And then that might make him feel frustrated or he then asks
25:30
me and I'm like getting irritated because then I have to
25:33
translate back. And this whole language barrier.
25:36
Sometimes some of the stuff literally gets lost in
25:39
translation. So I think this, this also
25:41
something that we have to think parallel to all these emotional
25:47
things and needs that sometimes the language is also a barrier
25:52
that can then also carry with the relationship between my
25:55
partner and my family or vice versa.
25:58
And that's sometimes that I forget this.
26:01
And also I get into a different, I don't want to say personality,
26:05
but I do speak a little different and behave with my
26:09
mannerisms when I'm speaking German and my tone gets
26:12
different and all that. And then I react out of this
26:16
personality, putting this in quotations to then my husband,
26:19
who's like, what are you doing? Because I'm not in my English
26:24
role in my English mannerism. And that I have noticed also
26:28
causes quite some irritation sometimes.
26:31
Or when he doesn't under literally doesn't understand
26:35
some stuff that maybe my grandma says and then that causes or he
26:38
has not the vocabulary then and then he uses a word that she
26:42
might then CSO confrontational or whatever.
26:45
So this is also big that plays into this whole dynamic when
26:50
when I go back back home with the literal language.
26:53
Yeah. And that's just that's another
26:55
layer of complexity onto it and more opportunities.
26:59
I guess sometimes it'll be literally interpreting the
27:02
language for your partner. Did you understand that?
27:05
But also just that feelings interpretation that we were
27:08
talking about of like, how was that for you?
27:10
Or bet that was a bit confusing or were we talking a bit fast or
27:14
Yeah, just kind of checking in something that I was thinking
27:17
about that felt important to say that it's Christmas or, you
27:20
know, whatever Holidays is not often the time to be healing
27:23
deep wounds. Just when we're thinking about
27:26
our families, like there can be a lot of pressure, especially if
27:30
you know, you're doing work on yourself or you're parenting in
27:32
a different way or, you know, whatever that looks like to kind
27:35
of go back in and be like, look, dad, I don't like that you do
27:40
this or brother, we always, you know, it's just not the time
27:43
like go easy on yourself. There'll be things that feel the
27:47
right time to bring up and, and probably the Christmas dinner
27:50
table is not one of those moments.
27:53
That's the greatest gift. Yeah.
27:54
Yeah. But just to kind of it's, it
27:56
wouldn't be nice for you either. And yeah, just as just as it's
28:01
probably just not the time to kind of be opening those wounds.
28:04
And that can feel difficult if you're feeling like you're not
28:07
acting in an authentic place, if you have made lots of changes in
28:11
your life and things. But yeah, to just kind of be
28:14
compassionate with yourself that it's probably not the easiest
28:17
moment to do that, especially if you know, alcohol is often
28:22
involved in these in Christmas times and celebrations
28:25
generally. And yeah, I think it's just,
28:28
yeah, perhaps not the not the easiest opportunity to or the
28:33
safest. And I suppose we've also
28:35
touching on people on, you know, these kind of OK families
28:38
dynamics. But for some people, it's
28:40
really, really hard. It's really hard work to go back
28:43
to into their family homes. And there might have been lots
28:45
of trauma, abuse, these things. And to actually go back perhaps
28:50
to where you grew up, all those childhood places can be really,
28:54
really hard work. So to kind of go, go easy on
28:57
yourself. And, you know, that can
28:58
sometimes look like driving somewhere yourself.
29:01
And if you wanted to leave, you could.
29:03
Or if you got really overwhelmed or triggered or yeah, just to
29:07
say that. And that can also be very lonely
29:08
as well if you sort of not returning to a safe family
29:12
place. Could I also ask then about when
29:14
we go home, especially for Christmas?
29:16
As we said, one of the things we tend to do is also the meet up
29:19
with our friends. And The thing is now as a new
29:24
parent or just even living abroad or whatever it is, the
29:27
relationship changes. And you know, they, they kind
29:32
of, they might be still the same themselves, they might have
29:34
changed themselves or whatever. But it's just like, how do we
29:36
kind of deal with that aspect of kind of, you know,
29:40
traditionally, like, for example, myself and my
29:42
schoolmates, we always go out for Christmas dinners.
29:44
Like that was something we did for a long time at Christmas.
29:47
And you know, if you're doing that and then one year you go
29:51
back, say with a newborn, and then you're going out to meet
29:54
these people and you're sitting there thinking, I don't really
29:57
have much in common with you anymore.
29:59
Like it happens, some of us. And it was just that thing that
30:02
I'm like, how do we do? We give ourselves a break for
30:04
that and just say, look, it's just now it's just, you know,
30:07
there's a lot going on. There's too much demands on
30:09
ourselves. Don't be thinking this way.
30:11
Or is there, you know, is this a common thing that might happen
30:14
with us? Yeah, I mean, it's a common
30:16
thing that always happens. I think you spoke in the last
30:18
episode about Friends being there for a reason or a season,
30:22
and it just might be that those school friends were there for
30:26
that very important seasonal. And then you kind of try and
30:29
find ways to connect and it doesn't feel so connected.
30:32
But they're also those same people might have been a similar
30:34
phase of life to you with a family or whatever.
30:36
And actually it feels easier to connect, I think.
30:40
Yeah, I think there's an expectation with going back to
30:43
your family home and going back to your C school friends or
30:46
university friends or, you know, whomever that things will be the
30:49
same like that the dance will be the same, but that it's probably
30:53
and should have got an update. And sometimes it's the update
30:56
that feels like a bit jarring. It doesn't feel like it can sort
31:00
of be confusing, but to just sort of expect it like, you
31:03
know, how much you've changed either by becoming a parent,
31:05
living abroad just by time, and to kind of expect that of other
31:09
people as well. So the friendship might look
31:12
different and behave differently.
31:15
It's not like a software update where it just does it
31:17
automatically in the background and we're all good then.
31:20
Well, sometimes it is. And those friendships are really
31:22
special, aren't they? That you can be like, hey, I've
31:24
known you since I was 10, but now you know, you've both got
31:26
kids and whatever and it's different.
31:29
But the fundamentals are still there.
31:31
And some, some of the software updates are just a bit jinky.
31:35
Just not it's not. It's not working the same.
31:38
I yeah, I just, it was just something like I, I remember
31:41
speaking to a few people and we kind of did discuss like the
31:44
differences and I just, yeah, especially a Christmas time when
31:48
this is when we tend to. Oh, and the worst part for me is
31:51
like, like this is not just for me.
31:53
This is usually for everyone is when you go back home and you're
31:56
the one that has to drive around to see everyone and like, no
31:59
one's coming to you and you're just like, are you kidding me?
32:01
Like I've, I've already flown here, you know, the best you
32:04
could do is come and see me as well.
32:06
Is there a way that we could actually kind of, do you think
32:09
it's reasonable to kind of say to people, hey, look, I can't
32:11
come to you. I know I always did for 20
32:13
years, but now I'm not going to see.
32:15
You can come to me. Yeah, that's a boundary thing,
32:17
isn't it? Saying what you what you hope
32:20
for what you expect be like OK, we're going to be in this one
32:24
place this afternoon would love to see you please come and see
32:27
us whatever to just sort of spell it out what your
32:30
expectations and hopes are and with people can do that, then
32:34
great if they can't also great. You've told them what you what
32:37
you want, or you could wilfully and step into the fact that
32:42
you're going to go and visit people and make it be a choice,
32:45
not a resentful choice, but to actually say like, yeah, okay, I
32:49
can't see this piston or they can't buy that, but I want to
32:51
see them. So I'm going to make the the
32:53
effort. And that's very different to
32:55
just driving round door to door saying you're here if you're
32:59
kind of stepping into it willingly and with a different
33:03
kind of intention. Yeah.
33:04
Coming back to the intention, like what is my intention here?
33:07
And when you were saying this, Eva, I was thinking of, yeah,
33:10
maybe going also into the the meeting of the intention.
33:14
Is this going to be a chance for reconnection or connection in
33:18
general? Or is this going to be a chance
33:19
for me to let go, You know, because sometimes this can also
33:23
when you then realize, or actually I'm realizing we don't
33:27
have, we've had something in common.
33:28
But now it's really like we're, we can't like hit a middle
33:31
ground here. But then this is also for me at
33:33
least was a peaceful realization of, OK, great.
33:37
I don't need to worry about seeing this person the next time
33:40
because I can just let this go now.
33:42
And then it's it's not resentful, but it's just like I
33:46
can make this peaceful cut. It's fine if I ran into them in
33:49
the streets. I'm going to be friendly letting
33:52
this this go. This can then also be the
33:55
intention or the realization of this meeting.
33:57
And then I think that's equally great because that frees up
34:00
resources on my end, so. Yeah.
34:03
OK, so let's let's take a step back and back into the home I
34:07
guess. So as a parent or a partner,
34:10
what can I do to help my partner and my child feel like happy and
34:15
secure in this visit home? Like any tips that you might be
34:18
able to make the time more enjoyable or less stressful?
34:22
Yeah. So I'd be thinking first about
34:24
your expectations of the trip and to kind of spell those out,
34:28
you know, either in your partnership or with your family.
34:31
Like, you know, could be literally like we're going to
34:33
stay at Nan's house for three days and we're going to do this
34:36
and we're going to eat this kind of food, you know, those sorts
34:38
of practical things. But also what you're expecting
34:41
in terms of those negotiable and non negotiable boundaries, you
34:44
know, to have those explicit with your partner.
34:46
So then perhaps that your partner could also remind you of
34:49
those subtly if you are totally lost in the dance to say like,
34:53
yeah, we did say we were going to do this, Shall we do still
34:55
this, you know, those kind of things.
34:57
The other thing would be thinking of ways to regulate
35:02
yourself when you're when you might be triggered and a trigger
35:06
just means, you know, and there's an emotion that comes up
35:09
that doesn't belong in the now. So it'll be, you know, being in
35:13
your childhood bedroom and then just suddenly feeling trapped or
35:16
confused or something that's like this doesn't belong to
35:18
right now. And if you feel like that, it
35:21
can be really helpful to kind of go back, get into your physical
35:24
body. You know, it might be like, get
35:26
outside for a minute, splash water on your face, ground
35:30
yourself in your breath, these sorts of physical things which
35:34
can help in the moment. Yeah.
35:36
So having your expectations set and ways to regulate yourself.
35:39
I always rely a lot on exercise generally, and I think like
35:43
during holiday times that can go out of the window.
35:46
And that's been something I've regretted in previous, you know,
35:49
editions of Christmas. So I always take my running
35:52
staff now and I'm like, OK, even if it's Christmas morning,
35:56
especially if it's Christmas morning, I'm going to get
35:58
outside, I'm going to do some exercise before, you know, the
36:01
whole day take shape. And so thinking about those
36:04
things that you have in your arsenal, in your tool bag at
36:06
home that you want to take with you, that may help you feel
36:09
grounded and regulated and. I think those are three
36:13
excellent points that you actually gave.
36:16
Yeah, I hope anyone listening is actually going to be able to dot
36:19
these down, remember them, and execute them when it comes to
36:22
the actual day in itself. Yeah.
36:24
I want to throw in one more thing.
36:25
When you said, because this is now that you said this, I
36:28
remember that my husband and I used to do this in the past that
36:32
I will remind us as a couple of this.
36:35
We had this one phrase that we said to each other when we knew
36:40
the other one has to leave the situation and the other person
36:43
has to hold the frame. So we said, let me check if they
36:47
have orange juice. And that was the signal for the
36:51
other person. OK, Martin really needs to leave
36:54
now or my husband really needs to get out the situation.
36:57
That was always like, let me, yeah, let me just run to the
37:00
kitchen. Let me check if they have orange
37:01
juice. And that was our little innocent
37:04
sentence. So maybe you could come up with.
37:07
Yeah, just something that only. Yeah, only, yeah, exactly the
37:11
same for that was our safe sentence when we knew the other
37:14
person needs to leave right now, there's no time for explanation.
37:19
And then they can come back. Or even if I noticed, I said, do
37:23
you want to go and check if they have orange juice?
37:26
And he said, Oh yeah, let me, let me check.
37:28
And then that's also something that we could keep an eye on
37:31
each other when we when we needed to give each other space
37:34
then in these situations. So everyone thinks you guys are
37:37
obsessed with the orange juice? Exactly, and hopefully no one of
37:41
my family is listening to this because now they know.
37:43
I literally was just thinking that.
37:46
With the new one now. So, yeah, well, close your ears.
37:50
We'll have a trigger warning for your family members.
37:52
I think this is actually you, you really finalize those points
37:55
so well, Naomi, that it's, we really kind of, we hit the nail
38:00
on the head there with the hammer or with the screwdriver,
38:02
whatever one tool you're going to be using.
38:04
But I think, yeah, but I think that that that's a great way to
38:07
end this. Thank you so much, as always.
38:10
Hopefully everyone can enjoy and take away everything that's been
38:14
happening here. And maybe you guys are going to
38:15
start using your orange juice phrase now from now on as well
38:18
in your homes. But yeah, thank you again,
38:21
Naomi. Thank you, have a good trips
38:24
back into the. Into the unknown super well.
38:29
Thank you so much, everyone. This has been Doctor Naomi, the
38:31
good enough psychologist.