Latest / The Living Loss | Navigating Invisible Grief & Identity / 15 | RP: Living with Grief Fog: Why Your Brain Feels This Way
Transcript
- Cassandra Daiana: Hello everyone and welcome back to the Living Loss podcast. I'm Daiana Bernard and we've decided to replay a very special episode today because to be honest, I'm sitting right in the middle of this messy middle we talk about. Cassandra: Hello friends, I'm Cassandra Harris Towner. Daiana: and I'm Daiana Bernard. Cassandra: As licensed mental health counselors, we're unpacking the quiet complex griefs that don't come with a funeral because you can't heal what you don't acknowledge. Daiana: Welcome to the Living Loss Podcast. We're so glad you're here, joining us in our conversation as we name these losses and create a meaningful path forward together. Please subscribe and share this episode. It helps us grow this community and reach others who need to know that their grief is valid. Let's dive in. Cassandra Daiana: Lately, I've been navigating my own season of loss and I've been reacquainted with grief brain. It's that feeling of not knowing what day it is or even how time is passing. It's this sense of timelessness ⁓ confusion. Cassandra: So there's a few things today that we wanted to talk about before we get into the fun part that we're both looking forward to. the first one was defining grief brain. ⁓ it a little out there, but it's also been considered like almost like a brain fog. ⁓ while we're the middle of a non-death loss, ⁓ our brain's executive function, is, ⁓ you know, that boss the brain. ⁓ Cassandra Daiana: It's total emotional and physical exhaustion. The kind where forgetfulness sets in and you live in this strange dreamlike detachment. Going through the motions while feeling miles away, distanced. If you ever felt like you're failing at life because you can't remember what was said a minute ago or you don't have the Cassandra: is completely overwhelmed. It's like having 50 tabs open on a laptop. Eventually things just start to slow down, things start to lag, and you can't really make two and two make sense all the time. it can be really, really frustrating. I remember a couple years ago when I was dealing with some interpersonal in my marriage, I had grief brain because there was a lot of loss, a lot of acceptance that had to happen. Cassandra Daiana: capacity for one more quote-unquote small problem. I am right here with you. Cassandra: but I felt like I was just walking around in this fog the whole time. I had no idea really whether I was coming or going. it lasted for quite a while, which is incredibly frustrating. I don't want to feel that way, but it didn't really matter what I wanted. It was just what was going on. Cassandra Daiana: Many dynamics can make this situation even harder. makes this even heavier is trying to navigate relationships during these times. Grief has a way of highlighting strange family dynamics and difficult connections that were already a struggle. When you're already running on empty and trying to manage a complicated relationship, Daiana: Mm-hmm. a wild experience that is, I felt that too. And it's almost like a dreamlike state where you know you're living, you're going through the motions, but it's this sense of detachment. Cassandra Daiana: It all feels impossible. There are also friends and family that want to give you quote unquote space, right? And it is often very understandable that people don't know what to say. But reaching out to someone who's grieving just to let them know that they're there to sit next to them on the couch watching The Good Place or watching something. Cassandra: Mm-hmm. had a nice little existential crisis that came along with that, but I feel like that's a conversation for a different day. Daiana: Well, you know, have ⁓ amazing way ⁓ making really sad things sound really funny. Cassandra: therapist was so excited I was having an existential crisis. She's like, normally this happens when you're older, but now it means that like you're advanced in your thinking and you're grieving and you're processing. was like, cool, can we make it stop? ⁓ Daiana: you Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Cassandra Daiana: It is helpful. It's okay to acknowledge that some people in your life might make it harder rather than easier right now. You don't have to fix those dynamics while you're grieving. Sometimes maintaining a safe distance is the healthiest thing you can do for yourself. Daiana: Yeah, can we? that's a really good point though, none of this usually comes just one thing at time. you just said like 50 open, I'm like, that's me on a good day. Like that's me on a good day with 50 tabs open ⁓ and then add on most those tabs being or, what I'm going to come up Cassandra: ⁓ huh. Cassandra Daiana: In the midst of this, there's often a voice, sometimes a small whisper, a small whisper in your own mind, or sometimes it's loud, it comes from outside of you, people around you telling you that you should be strong. I want you to challenge that every time. Daiana: I'm going to talk about next, which is empathy fatigue, That's the emotional burnout. As therapists, we ⁓ predisposed or ⁓ we are more inclined, would that be the word, right? To experience that when listening to a lot of people's losses ⁓ and while having our own. Cassandra: Mm-hmm. Sure. Cassandra Daiana: This is a time to feel as bad as it actually does. You don't need to rush this process. Your only job right now is to do what you can within your means. This is the time, season, to say no to everything outside of your current capacity. It's time to ask for help and more importantly, accept. Daiana: This concept is interesting because it ⁓ sound like you're wearing down, kind of like what you were explaining, Cassandra, ⁓ it's also when you start to feel cynical, Jaded, because your nervous system is stuck in a state of high alert and it might notice it when a complains about Cassandra Daiana: accept it when it's offered. If you have a therapist, now would be the time to reach out. And if you don't have one yet, find a trusted friend or family member who can help you hold that weight. We aren't meant to navigate this loss in isolation. Daiana: miniscule or seemingly small problem and you just snap at them. just get annoyed. You have low tolerance for people complaining or basically that might feel like you're taking on more stuff. And it's not just for therapists. It's when you're grieving a loss of a plan, a relationship, something that's turning your world upside down, but people are not noticing it. You're going to find yourself. Cassandra Daiana: In today's replay, Daiana: More annoyed. Cassandra: It just makes me even think of when I used to work retail. was ⁓ manager of ⁓ a large store and it was Christmas season and was working ⁓ 70 a week during Christmas season and I had a part-time employee complain about the 20 hours that they had been put on. I did respond well. Cassandra Daiana: Cassandra and I dive into why our brains lag like a computer with too many tabs open. We talk about empathy fatigue and how to use ⁓ skills ⁓ as accepts to survive the surges. I'm replaying this because I'm currently using these tools ⁓ and then ⁓ to find own. Cassandra: and had to apologize later on. She was like, you really hurt my feelings. I was like, I really responded inappropriately. Empathy fatigue is that emotional burnout. And I just, I didn't have it in me to be concerned about her 20 hours comparatively. In hindsight, it wasn't her fault either that I was working an obscene amount of hours. Daiana: Hmmmm Cassandra Daiana: safe space while navigating all of this Daiana: Mm-hmm. Cassandra Daiana: So let's normalize needing a minute. I know it's difficult if you can't take time off of work. Daiana: Yeah, yeah, because that annoyance is actually a symptom of your like empathy tank being empty. Cassandra: Mm-hmm. Cassandra Daiana: Here is our conversation on quiet, complex griefs Cassandra: and it was of my own doing. ⁓ up for it, so it doesn't necessarily make it any easier, but... Daiana: Yeah. No, it doesn't. I think of us as parents too, being therapists, ⁓ even when I a teacher, I would come home and like, please don't ask me a question. I had zero tolerance for one more question. And then you feel bad it. ⁓ You definitely do, because it's not ⁓ fault. Cassandra Daiana: It's okay to take a minute, complex grief. Cassandra: Well, when you're experiencing these things, when you're experiencing the empathy of fatigue, when you're experiencing the brain fog, we need to like bust out our distress tolerance toolkit. This the idea where if our brain is foggy or we feel frustrated and or we need Cassandra Daiana: It's difficult and it still requires us to show up for ourselves with a lot, a lot of grace. Daiana: Mm-hmm. Cassandra Daiana: Here's today's episode. Cassandra: to practice our distress tolerance. It's a set of skills designed to help us survive an emotional surge, when you feel that frustration, when you want to say the thing. And helps make the situation better. The distress toolkit does where you won't up throwing your phone against a wall when you can't find your car keys or you have a flat tire. It's ⁓ it's something that can do. ⁓ that alleviate ⁓ distress. Daiana: distress tolerance skill comes from a modality dialectical behavioral therapy, DBT. It's a that I ⁓ use a lot because it's tangible, I hear this a lot. just tell me what to do. And I think that's a natural experience. What can I actually do about it? ⁓ I'm going to add that particular section is called ACCEPTS and it's an acronym for activities, contributing comparison. And when we talk about comparison is I do to tell you this caveat. Cassandra: Mm-hmm. Daiana: ⁓ if you make a comparison for yourself and say man, it could be worse ⁓ You know, isn't as bad as blank that feels very validating to you But if some if you say that to someone or someone else is telling you that is invalidating So I'm sure ⁓ everyone has well, ⁓ don't be upset. It's not like you did, you know lost your job Something to that It's not validating. You could only use comparisons for yourself Cassandra: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Daiana: The next one is emotions and emotions is like watching TV and we're going to be talking about that. Like do something, watch something that changes that emotion. Push away is taking a mental break. Thoughts is thinking about something else completely random and sensations, which is, using your senses. And ⁓ this is I was telling Cassandra earlier that every topic, every little psycho education piece that we talk about could be its own. episode, its own workshop, its own thing. ⁓ So, not going deep into anything. If you hear us speak on anything that you want us to do a episode on, that would be really helpful as well, because ⁓ we couldn't really go in depth into So I will be putting those in that particular skill in the notes. Cassandra: Mm-hmm. I think me personally, we definitely should touch on empathy fatigue and what that looks like on a day to day because people are living with it and they have no idea and that's probably why I get flipped off in traffic from time to time, you know? Like, these things come out in all sorts of different ways. along with the distress tolerance toolkit that she was just talking about, she mentioned ⁓ like thinking of something random, which is why I really do enjoy ⁓ Daiana: ⁓ goodness, yes. Cassandra: watching really random television shows, which is what we wanted to talk about today. we're kind of in and trying to figure out what random shows we watch that are similar, we discovered that we have very opposite and different tastes ⁓ regarding entertainment the type of things we indulge in. I tend to be little bit more on ⁓ the, ⁓ I'm going gently it, the nerdy side. Whereas, yep, no, this is who I am. We grew up, I grew up on Star Trek. didn't grow up in Star Wars. I apologize to everybody out there who is judging me harshly right now, but I grew up on Star Trek. And today I can go and watch an episode of Star Trek and feel grounded, especially ⁓ The Generation, the hands down, when I was ⁓ up at night nursing my daughter, that was what I was watching. ⁓ It ⁓ Daiana: Go for it. Hmm. Cassandra: I think I watched the entire series during that eight week period because I wasn't sleeping so I had to do something. things like Doctor Who ⁓ me through my to mid 30s ⁓ in way that was, ⁓ when was working all those hours, I could come home and completely turn my brain off and watch something that I really, really enjoyed. I have sorts of nerd tattoos. I have ⁓ a statement in Gala Frayn. ⁓ Daiana: You Cassandra: on one of my forearms. have Guide to the Galaxy on the other one, as as ⁓ something from what are going to end up talking about today. But like I said, we have opposing opinions ⁓ on ⁓ good looks like. ⁓ Daiana: You know, it just dawned on me that there's a certain quality about you that reminds me of my cousins. that ⁓ love science fiction. ⁓ love, ⁓ I'm sure they know the things that you're talking about. The only one I got was Star Wars, right? That's it. ⁓ Cassandra: Mm-hmm. Well, it's because we all wear tinfoil hats, is what it is. Daiana: Yeah, no, they really, I remember watching that ⁓ growing up and I can see how escaping to this other world, it works. ⁓ I don't know, for me, it was like, I couldn't understand the concept of what was happening sci-fi when I was little. And they were older than me too, so. ⁓ But I always wanted be into it. And I tried in... During my teenage years, I tried again. My adult years, I'm like, ah, man, I was like, feel like I missed, I definitely have FOMO over not being like a Trekkie or whatever, or liking sci-fi. Cassandra: Well, it's fun because gets wrapped up in most Everything gets wrapped up within 45 minutes to an hour with like a nice little bow. A lot times it's episodic. ⁓ They'll have thing, they'll have this problem, they'll have a solution, and then have an ending. ⁓ it's... ⁓ Daiana: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Cassandra: It reminds me of when I was a kid and I would watch things like Full House where everything was presented and wrapped up within 30 minutes. I miss that. So it's a really, it's a throwback. Daiana: Yeah. Mm-hmm, that's so true. Mm-hmm. Yeah, yeah, that is really true. so probably we were younger, something like Fuller House or ⁓ Family we probably watched those same shows. But ⁓ as you were like reminiscing over the shows, it sounded like you were saying shows that got you through things, right? ⁓ And they were, I don't if you watched Scrubs. Did you watch Scrubs? Cassandra: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. I did watch Scrubs, I love Scrubs, we got another one! Daiana: Yay! Okay, we have one. Which that one is kind of like our young adult years, right? So, Scrubs, and it's coming back. Did you know that? It's coming back this month. So maybe that's one we can watch together, maybe? I know. Do you want to do that? Do you want to watch it and we can talk about it? Okay. Because during the pandemic, I listened to the... Cassandra: Mm-hmm. It is, I'm so sorry. I love that they're all old like us now, too. I think I'm down with it. Daiana: Scrubs rewatch podcast. And then when life started picking up again, I didn't catch every episode, but I love a rewatch podcast. ⁓ Now, that's a good one. If you if you go back, I think you enjoy it. So that's one show. And I I go back and forth through like serious shows and not like I loved Loss. Did ever watch Loss or you've? Cassandra: I have not enjoyed one of those yet, so I'll have to get into it. I tried to watch the first season of Loss and it was just a little bit heavy. Like when I get really anxious while I'm watching a show, I can't keep watching it. Daiana: Hmm. Yeah, so I used to really love psychological thrillers. Once I had my first child, it was like, I cry at commercials. Don't show me even a sad commercial or even something really happy. I notice if you tell me a really happy story, I'll cry. So my whole body changed after that. And then after working in the hospital and COVID and then Cassandra: Mm-hmm. Daiana: being a mental health counselor, I can't really watch really heavy shows, but I still do love them. I actually, a lot of times I go online and find out the ending, cause then it calms me down and then I finish watching it. Cause I do enjoy it. ⁓ I spoilers. my husband, he does not like spoilers. My kids do. So, but I like spoilers if I ask for it. Just tell me if I don't ask for it, don't tell me. ⁓ Cassandra: Mm-hmm. spoilers. I do it all the time. Mm-hmm. I like knowing that everything's gonna be okay, and if it's not, then I don't have to finish watching that episode. Daiana: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Mm-hmm. What are some other shows? So I loved This Is Us, which also has a rewatch. People really didn't said like, they cried every episode. I didn't cry every episode, but I feel like they, it was such a good show. A hit on very universal experiences. As specific as it was, it really, I feel like that was a show that impacted so many people. Cassandra: No. Mm-hmm. Daiana: and brought up a lot of things for people and I think that some people who weren't ready for it like to watch what it looks like to to go through something they weren't ready and then they just hated the show and stopped watching but I really really loved it. see what else ⁓ then I ⁓ I love right now I'm loving Will Trent. I don't know if you heard of that one that's a really good one ⁓ it's Cassandra: Mm-hmm. I'm not familiar. Mm-mm. Daiana: Yeah, it's a lot of action, I like character driven stories, but this one has like lot of action, murder and all of these things, but it really goes in depth to getting to know the characters. Cassandra: That's pretty cool. Mm-hmm. we happened to find one that we both were obsessed with for a period of time that ⁓ incredibly hysterical moments and just jaw-dropping antics also had really serious underlying ⁓ messages and tones would hit you in the feelings if you were paying attention. And there's this There's a couple of shows that each of these actors have put out since that I really want to get into, but I was so excited to find out that we both watched The Good Place. Daiana: the good place. ⁓ Cassandra: It was phenomenal. I have stickers that say, would Chidi do? Daiana: would Chidi do? ⁓ hope that if you haven't watched The Good Place that you go and watch it. That was like a transitional show for me. Like I watched it ⁓ the after COVID when it was like the world was starting to open up, but like there weren't many places to go to yet or ⁓ we didn't feel so comfortable. ⁓ it was a show that that was an escape, but it had that perfect combination of Cassandra: Mm-hmm. Daiana: maybe philosophy or makes you think or, you know, it's about the afterlife. And was depicted in a way that I had never, thought of. Cassandra: It was the afterlife as we assume it's going to be, and then suddenly it's not. I think that was what I enjoyed the most about it. And I must have watched it about the same time. I don't 100 % remember, but I must have watched it about the same time, ⁓ I watched it with my children. Daiana: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Cassandra: and it became one of their comfort shows. I would come home from work and they would be watching The Good Place and so I would sit down and watch whatever random episode they were watching and I'm pretty sure I watched the entire series front to back and then they watched the entire series front to back it ⁓ ⁓ And the that cracks me up about the stickers that say, would Chidi do most of the time? ⁓ He just have ⁓ an crisis and a stomach ache. But as the character progressed, it became so much deeper and so much than that. And watching the character development, there were so many relationships that resonated with the living grief and the loss of who you thought you were and the reasons why things happen the way they happen and understanding that, know, there are some repercussions out there as well. Daiana: Yeah, he was definitely one of my favorite. They were all my favorite, but they have something special about them. So it's like he didn't get he wouldn't be in the good place. he's this philosopher and he is very and does everything the right way. ⁓ But he didn't realize how he impacted people around him, how frustrating he was to be around his poor best friend that was, I think Chidi was his best man and he couldn't make a decision and people around him felt like he was inconsiderate and it yeah, that was just one of the things I about it because you got to see how the character thought about themselves and how they played a part in everybody's life. Cassandra: Mm-hmm. Absolutely. that makes me think of ⁓ character who wasn't necessarily an android, but she wasn't necessarily a human. was she was an information sentient being. was it was really fascinating. ⁓ there I'm ahead of time if there's any sort of spoilers in this, but there was ⁓ a specific between her and one of the other characters ⁓ that when Daiana: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Cassandra: her memory was wiped and their memory was wiped, they forgot about the relationship. later on in the show, when that character ⁓ a relationship with a third character, Janet her body ⁓ remembered, body had grief, like she could not understand why this happening and why she was feeling a kind of way until she found out that they had had a history together. ⁓ And then everything kind of clicked into place and made sense for her, but she still... Daiana: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Cassandra: couldn't approach the relationship in a healthy manner because of this history that she had. there was just so much grief ⁓ up in that along with ridiculously hilarious moments. It was phenomenal. Daiana: I know as you're talking about it, I'm thinking about how there were a lot all of these losses were layered from their living life when when they were on earth and and losing that life and then all of their realizations all their connections to the people in the afterlife and losses within those as well while being hilarious. Cassandra: Absolutely hilarious. I think you were mentioning earlier before we were even recording about Eleanor's trash bag theory, how she was just, she was a trash bag from, what is it, And it was fantastic because she would immediately like relive these moments in her life remembering and so we could see the sort of person that she was and the sort of person that she was becoming. And then there was, as she grew and adapted and became Daiana: Mm-hmm. Yeah, I think so. Cassandra: a better version of herself. She had so much grief and remorse about how she treated people and she finally realized what the impact that she had and and who she actually wanted to be. And it was just watching that transition. Daiana: Hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And she saw parts of herself that were good. She didn't see it in herself, but she saw it in others. And then that's why she was attracted to them and wanted to be around them and be like them. Cassandra: Mm-hmm. Especially considering initial soulmate was Chidi. ⁓ so the two of them together were just phenomenal. Phenomenal. the ridiculous amount of antics that came from that. ⁓ Because wanted to be a better person and she saw that this person could teach her to be a better person. I remember one scene specifically where she was to make a decision at a yogurt shop. ⁓ Daiana: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Cassandra: and let someone behind her step ahead of her ran all the way home to tell him that she did a kind thing for somebody because in the past she wouldn't have. And there was just that moment of awareness and awakening and ⁓ a little bit of grief of the sort of person that she used to be. Daiana: Hmm. Mm-hmm, and I guess redeeming herself as well. Yeah. Cassandra: Mm-hmm, a lot of redemption, which was kind of the whole point of the show, is regardless of who you are or where you are, there's always that opportunity to grow and to learn regardless of the circumstances. Daiana: Yeah. And one of the ways I think of grief and how to live with it is to create meaning around it, purpose around it. And that's what she was doing. She was creating purpose. Like, how can I now make better where I am? There was also this concept of the Jeremy Bearimy me, ⁓ which I loved because so real. ⁓ Cassandra: Which is my other nerd tattoo. Yep. ⁓ my children love because we have idea of I'll love you till the end of Jeremy Bear imy but Jeremy Bear imy never ends. So it just, it is a continuous loop of how they keep time in the afterlife. ⁓ And it introduced in such a way that it rocked everybody's because it didn't sense. But it gives you unlimited ⁓ and unlimited options. Daiana: Hmm... Mm-hmm... Mm-hmm. Cassandra: to to be, to grow, learn. It's And I that's beautiful. ⁓ Mm-hmm. Daiana: And it has the twists and turns and it's not linear. Cassandra: I guess time isn't really linear. There's between like memories and future thinking and all of the things that go along with that time isn't really linear. It's happening all around us all at the same exact moment. Daiana: Mm-mm. Mm-hmm. We were talking about maybe ⁓ that too. But I ⁓ like that's ⁓ show that I could ⁓ of like you were talking about like in the past when things had to start and end. ⁓ when we were just watching TV, we could just turn on a show and whatever episode it was on, it was on and we would just watch that episode. Just like when your daughters were watching it, you just watch that episode. That is truly a show that you can just put on an episode and really enjoy it. Cassandra: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. feel the same way about the office, but we don't have to divert onto that topic. ⁓ Daiana: That was another one that I tried to watch That it would you know, I didn't get into it I ⁓ watched Schitt's Creek because you had told me about it and I it took me a little bit But I ⁓ ended really loving it. Like I that's one of my my favorite shows and But with the office I didn't I think I got to season two and I just couldn't get past it But I know people adore that therapists adore that show Cassandra: Mm-hmm. Daiana: They write papers on it and everything. I'll probably go back to it. I'll probably go back to Cassandra: Speaking of Creek ⁓ we had discussed collective grief not long ago, there was a huge outcry of collective grief when Catherine O'Hara passed. ⁓ was devastating so many and all I could think was I really hope that she knew while she was alive just how much of an impact she made on people's lives. There were all over the place posting on their socials about her and what she did for them and how she changed their lives and I really hope that ⁓ Daiana: Mmm. Yeah. Cassandra: She knew that. I really do. Daiana: I hope so too. what ⁓ left or like her legacy, it's how she made people feel. And that is truly what I believe that that's what we leave behind that that is our legacy of how other people feel when they're around us. ⁓ Cassandra: Mm-hmm. And that kind of reminds me of, like, not to give away the ending of The Good Place, but the idea of returning back to where you came from. Like, returning outward and what you leave behind is what people remember. Daiana: Mm-hmm. you know what that just brought to mind is that we cannot avoid grief, right? Because, like, I don't want to give spoilers, the show is so good. And no how try to not feel losses, it it's like a, ⁓ bear imy ⁓ right back to you. The loop come right back. Cassandra: Mm-hmm. Daiana: And yeah, but she's amazing. She meant a lot to so many people. A mother, a friend, a lot of people grew up with her. Yeah, she's contagious. I loved her in Schitt's Creek. And then I realized, oh my gosh, she's been the mom in, it was like Home Alone, Beetlejuice, right? Cassandra: She was Kevin's mom. Yeah. Daiana: Like she's had a lot of, and because she passed, a lot of people are putting clips of things that she's been in. She's funny. Like was funny, naturally. ⁓ Cassandra: She's incredibly talented, incredibly. Daiana: All right. So as we wrap up today's conversation, we're moving on to our favorite part of the show, Living Loss Lessons. This is where we everything we've talked about with tangible that you can use right now. Cassandra: These lessons aren't about fixing the pain, but about finding a way to carry it. Sometimes it's a tool to practice, and other times it's reflecting on the meaning you've built from a loss you never asked for, strength you gained even in the midst of the hard stuff. So what is your living loss lesson for this week? Daiana: the power of your emotions to generate a different emotion. that is one of the, you know, in the acronyms that is the emotion part. And as what we talked about today was watching a comedy, watching something that still could make you think, but can you help you get lost in it. And when we are on our phones if we're feeling sad, to curate your feed, to watch puppies or cats or people falling, whatever makes you laugh, you know? To have some things are your go-to that you go and watch ⁓ or look or read that will change that emotion ⁓ like that quickly. Cassandra: Mm-hmm. And what comes to mind for me is, as you're speaking about that acronym, was the T, the thoughts. Like how quickly we can change our thoughts by using these distress tolerance skills. they're going to look differently for everyone. Sometimes when ⁓ am upset about something, I will sit and crochet. Sometimes I will chew nails, which isn't ⁓ something recommend, but it is, I will admit something that I do. Or just take moment ⁓ and... ⁓ Thinking about Schitt's Creek and the good place and changes that we all go through and the things that we all reflect on and ⁓ legacy that we leave behind. And you said, the ⁓ grief comes back and it's always gonna come around and shows up at times we don't even expect it to and then we respond a different way. It reminds to make it okay normalize those moments that I need a minute. Daiana: Mm-hmm. Cassandra: Like I might just need to step away from whatever scenario is going on if my kids are overwhelming me while I'm already overstimulated or I'm actively participating in grief in that moment. okay to my thoughts by stepping away and just taking a moment. Because nothing is gonna come ⁓ if I stay, if I stay in it ⁓ for an period of time, but ⁓ it's not change unless I make the change. Daiana: Yeah. Well, thank you so much for being a part of our circle today. Remember by sharing this episode, you're helping us reach someone else who's carrying their loss in silence. Let's keep growing this community together. Subscribe, follow, share, and know that your story matters. Cassandra: And just as a reminder, this podcast is for educational and entertainment purposes only. While we are therapists, we are not your therapists, and this does not replace professional mental health care. you feel like you would like to speak to someone, please reach out to someone ⁓ near you. Thanks so much. Daiana: Bye, see you next time.