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Job Hopping to Increase Your Income · She's On The Money

0:00
Speaker 1: Hello.
0:01
Speaker 2: My name's Santasha Nabananga Bamblet. I'm a proud yr the
0:05
Speaker 2: Order Kerni Whoalbury and a waddery woman. And before we
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Speaker 2: get started on She's on the Money podcast, I would
0:11
Speaker 2: like to acknowledge the traditional custodians of the land of
0:14
Speaker 2: which this podcast is recorded on a wondery country, acknowledging
0:18
Speaker 2: the elders, the ancestors and the next generation coming through
0:23
Speaker 2: as this podcast is about connecting, empowering, knowledge sharing and
0:27
Speaker 2: the storytelling of you to make a difference for today
0:31
Speaker 2: and lasting impact for tomorrow.
0:33
Speaker 1: Let's get into it. She's on the Money. She's on
0:37
Speaker 1: the Money. Hello, and welcome that She's on the Money
1:00
Speaker 1: cast for millennials who want financial freedom. My name is
1:03
Speaker 1: beck Syed and with me is Victoria. Divine? Hey wrong,
1:07
Speaker 1: divine Victoria. Yeah, it's good name, isn't it. Thanks mum.
1:10
Speaker 1: He is a very good name.
1:11
Speaker 3: I say, thanks mum, not dad, because obviously came from
1:14
Speaker 3: my dad, but my mum chose to marry him.
1:16
Speaker 1: Oh well, good.
1:17
Speaker 3: Old decisions from women.
1:19
Speaker 1: Good on you all the divines to be honest. Yeah,
1:22
Speaker 1: it's a group effect. It's a group effort. Now, Victoria divine,
1:25
Speaker 1: divine victoria. We've shared on the pod before that I've
1:29
Speaker 1: done a fair few different jobs in my life. You have,
1:32
Speaker 1: it's relatively impressive. Thank you. I'm kind of getting over
1:35
Speaker 1: the embarrassment. I used to be quite embarrassed, but now
1:37
Speaker 1: I'm like, that's cool. I've done like a million jobs.
1:40
Speaker 1: Why is it embarrassing? I don't know. It's just like
1:42
Speaker 1: something you don't really hear of. I'm like, I was
1:43
Speaker 1: a kitchen for five seconds, and then I was a
1:45
Speaker 1: barista for five seconds, and then I was this and
1:47
Speaker 1: then this, and kept jumping and jumping and hopping. You're
1:50
Speaker 1: just working out what you like, totally. Thank you.
1:53
Speaker 3: That's much better than just getting into a job and
1:55
Speaker 3: being like, can't leave because I just started and this
1:59
Speaker 3: is trash. Yeah, everybody else who's winning X winning.
2:04
Speaker 1: Thank you. That's a very good way to reframe it.
2:06
Speaker 1: This is relevant today because we are talking about something
2:10
Speaker 1: that involves changing your career on the regular, but in
2:12
Speaker 1: a strategic way. So just hopping to literally increase your income,
2:17
Speaker 1: I feel like it's necessary nowadays. Hey yeah, I think so.
2:20
Speaker 3: It's really frustrating, but the rise of job hopping is
2:24
Speaker 3: changing the landscape of employment, with companies needing to adapt
2:27
Speaker 3: their retention strategies to keep employees engaged. While loyalty and
2:32
Speaker 3: engagement with your workplace is really important, often the most
2:35
Speaker 3: effective way to get the salary increase you want, sadly,
2:38
Speaker 3: is by changing jobs and companies.
2:40
Speaker 1: So let's face it.
2:41
Speaker 3: Many salaries are unfortunately not keeping up with inflation, and
2:44
Speaker 3: lots of people are considering leaving.
2:47
Speaker 1: Well, let's talk about it.
2:48
Speaker 3: Oh, it's an interesting concept and it makes me really sad.
2:52
Speaker 1: Side notes.
2:53
Speaker 3: I used to work in employee engagement and satisfaction Like
2:56
Speaker 3: that used to be my job. I used to be
2:59
Speaker 3: secondered into other companies. We used to do employee engagement
3:02
Speaker 3: surveys and then I would implement strategies to increase engagement
3:07
Speaker 3: and it was tightly I guess, correlated with remuneration, right, So, like,
3:12
Speaker 3: I know a fair bit about this, and this is
3:14
Speaker 3: why it annoys me, because I'm like you guys unable
3:16
Speaker 3: to read, like, pay your people properly and they won't
3:21
Speaker 3: leave you. Good strategy. I mean, it's not the only strategy.
3:25
Speaker 3: But from my perspective, it's funny because there's three factors
3:29
Speaker 3: that I think play into employee engagement, say stay and strive. Okay,
3:34
Speaker 3: if somebody was like at a barbecue on a weekend
3:38
Speaker 3: and they said, hey, Beck, tell me about your job,
3:40
Speaker 3: I would want you to be saying good things about
3:43
Speaker 3: the company, not in my presence, so I'd want you
3:46
Speaker 3: to be like, oh, yeah, it's a really good company,
3:47
Speaker 3: Like they treat me well. They you know, remunerate me
3:51
Speaker 3: properly for the work that I do. The second point
3:54
Speaker 3: is stay. So you want to stay with the company,
3:57
Speaker 3: You're not looking for another job. And the reason you
3:59
Speaker 3: want to stay is because all of your quote hygiene
4:02
Speaker 3: factors are being met. So for me, a hygiene factor
4:05
Speaker 3: is kind of like you're being paid enough to live
4:07
Speaker 3: a reasonable life. You're being paid enough for the job
4:10
Speaker 3: that you're doing. You are being paid for the jobs that.
4:14
Speaker 1: You are undertaking. And then strive.
4:17
Speaker 3: So that's the like lust point that I think is
4:21
Speaker 3: a real key indicator of whether an employee is willing
4:25
Speaker 3: to stay or not strive.
4:26
Speaker 1: Is that above and beyond?
4:27
Speaker 3: Like, is that employee going above and beyond in their job.
4:31
Speaker 3: We're not saying, oh my gosh, are they staying till
4:32
Speaker 3: ten pm? Because I don't think that's a reflection of
4:35
Speaker 3: work ethic at all.
4:36
Speaker 1: I think you know again.
4:37
Speaker 3: Side note, if you can't do your job within the
4:40
Speaker 3: thirty eight hour week that you've been allocated, there's one
4:43
Speaker 3: of two things happening, right. Either I, as your boss,
4:46
Speaker 3: have given you too many jobs for that period of
4:49
Speaker 3: time and I'm taking advantage of you, or you, as
4:52
Speaker 3: the employee, you're just dragging your feet and you actually
4:54
Speaker 3: have to spend a whole heap of time outside of
4:56
Speaker 3: work hours to get the job that I allocated you done.
5:00
Speaker 3: It's one or the other. Staying till ten pm not sexy. No,
5:03
Speaker 3: Like above and beyond is more. You're willing to put
5:06
Speaker 3: the time, energy, and effort in. I'm not expecting you
5:08
Speaker 3: to work six million other hours, right, to be clear.
5:12
Speaker 3: So it's interesting in twenty twenty three, when we have
5:16
Speaker 3: accessed all of the information, all of the.
5:18
Speaker 1: Data that says these are.
5:20
Speaker 3: The three things that really play into employee retention.
5:24
Speaker 1: People like nah, nah.
5:27
Speaker 3: Other than that, people do not realize how bad it is.
5:31
Speaker 3: And then they're like, oh, I'm so surprised beck quit.
5:35
Speaker 3: She said she was going to a different job, and like,
5:37
Speaker 3: I'm just so surprised. I thought she loved her job. Yeah,
5:40
Speaker 3: but you are underpaying her, and when she asked for
5:42
Speaker 3: a raise, you said no. And then she found out
5:45
Speaker 3: that her friend, who had recently started and she'd trained,
5:48
Speaker 3: got paid more than her. She was just done with
5:50
Speaker 3: your shit. Yea, the problem is you, babe. It blows
5:53
Speaker 3: my mind. And I know that this concept is going
5:56
Speaker 3: to be new to some people in our community, but
5:59
Speaker 3: also not new all to a lot of people, because
6:01
Speaker 3: a lot of the times we've had really nice money
6:04
Speaker 3: diarists on the show talking about how they left a
6:07
Speaker 3: role to increase their salary, or they left because they
6:09
Speaker 3: weren't being respected or remunerated in the way that they
6:12
Speaker 3: should have been. And I just think today, let's look
6:14
Speaker 3: at a few things. Let's look at the concept of
6:16
Speaker 3: job hopping. Let's look at the outline of the best
6:19
Speaker 3: way to do it, and also look at the potential
6:22
Speaker 3: pros and cons to get you really thinking about whether
6:25
Speaker 3: it might work for you. Because it's not the nineteen
6:28
Speaker 3: fifties anymore. You don't join one company and work there
6:31
Speaker 3: until you retire anymore. It's just not what's gonna happen there.
6:35
Speaker 1: It's not gonna happen that's very maybe nineteen fifties yeah, perfectly,
6:41
Speaker 1: because what I've done is I've looked up some stats
6:44
Speaker 1: for you, stats goal, and I wonder if you're keen
6:46
Speaker 1: to hear.
6:47
Speaker 3: I'm so excited because I know some of the stats already.
6:50
Speaker 3: I don't know what you've found those, So dig them up,
6:52
Speaker 3: show us what you've got.
6:53
Speaker 1: It's over these down. So if it sounds like I'm reading,
6:55
Speaker 1: it's because i'm reading, it's because you're reading. So according
6:59
Speaker 1: to his study by USA's ADP Research Institute, yeah, I
7:04
Speaker 1: would have to.
7:04
Speaker 3: Read twenty one of the mouth makes sense.
7:09
Speaker 1: In twenty twenty one, jobs witches saw their wages grow
7:12
Speaker 1: five point eight percent year over year in June, while
7:16
Speaker 1: job holders experienced a three point one percent gain derived
7:21
Speaker 1: from payroll data of eighteen million workers.
7:25
Speaker 3: So the maths is quite clear. You leave your job,
7:28
Speaker 3: you get paid more.
7:29
Speaker 1: Job hoppers get paid more. Job stayers maybe some get
7:33
Speaker 1: paid more, but they get paid less. The science is science. Yes,
7:37
Speaker 1: I mean they get a pay rise, but maybe rarely.
7:39
Speaker 1: I don't really know what all. Stop trying to back
7:41
Speaker 1: the employers right now. That's driving just a big fensit.
7:44
Speaker 1: I'm getting splinters. So back home here in Australia, over
7:47
Speaker 1: fifty five percent of bossies have been at their current
7:50
Speaker 1: workplace for less than five years, while just one in
7:53
Speaker 1: ten have been with the same company for over twenty years.
7:57
Speaker 1: That's refreshing, actually, because you know, when you speak to
8:00
Speaker 1: middle aged no get rid of that. Maybe you have
8:02
Speaker 1: shouldn't say, let's not get rid of that, let's keep that.
8:05
Speaker 1: I love that. I think I'm middle but it's true,
8:06
Speaker 1: this is the problem.
8:07
Speaker 3: I think it's true like people of my parents' generation
8:10
Speaker 3: were much more likely to stay in a job for
8:13
Speaker 3: a significant period of time because for them, loyalty paid off. True,
8:19
Speaker 3: whereas I don't think loyalty pays off in the same
8:21
Speaker 3: way that it used to. And that's actually really sad. Yeah,
8:24
Speaker 3: because you know, I don't know. I look at it
8:27
Speaker 3: from two perspectives. I suppose I used to be an employee,
8:32
Speaker 3: and I have had those conversations where I've said I
8:35
Speaker 3: need a race and I've had it declined. I'm also
8:38
Speaker 3: now an employer and I have two different teams in
8:41
Speaker 3: which I employ more than thirty people. So these conversations
8:45
Speaker 3: are things that I deal with literally every single day
8:48
Speaker 3: in the background. And I don't know if it's my
8:52
Speaker 3: personality I don't know if anybody else is like this,
8:55
Speaker 3: because I get maybe it's the ADHD thing. Do you
8:59
Speaker 3: know that people with ADHD have a higher sense of
9:03
Speaker 3: justice than anybody else, Like, it's actually not just ADHD,
9:06
Speaker 3: it's nearest bicy friends across the board. Whether you are
9:09
Speaker 3: on any type of spectrum, you have a higher sense
9:12
Speaker 3: of justice. So if you see something that is wrong,
9:14
Speaker 3: you're more likely to get involved in the fight or
9:16
Speaker 3: not like it or not agree with it. And I
9:18
Speaker 3: think that that could play into this, but it just
9:22
Speaker 3: really frustrates me that if I have good employees, the
9:26
Speaker 3: idea that they would think that they weren't properly remunerated.
9:29
Speaker 3: I'm immediately like, beck, I want to talk about it,
9:31
Speaker 3: like I want you to be so happy with your
9:33
Speaker 3: salary because you know that it's a reflection of your
9:37
Speaker 3: capabilities and what you've put into the role and what
9:39
Speaker 3: the role is worth. And we have these open, honest
9:42
Speaker 3: conversations and I don't think that should.
9:44
Speaker 1: Come as a surprise.
9:45
Speaker 3: I mean, I am she's on the money, but it
9:49
Speaker 3: blows my mind when I hear from people in our
9:51
Speaker 3: community that they don't get the same grace of having
9:53
Speaker 3: those conversations with their employer. Their employer might go, oh, well, Beck,
9:57
Speaker 3: I can't afford that. You're kind of like, well, if
9:59
Speaker 3: that's a ca you can't afford me. Like, and I
10:02
Speaker 3: know a lot of people are going to get up
10:03
Speaker 3: in arms and they might say, oh VI, but small
10:05
Speaker 3: businesses can't afford to just give pay rises.
10:09
Speaker 1: Your responsibility as.
10:11
Speaker 3: Well to find a way to remunerate your employees so
10:13
Speaker 3: that they have a living wage. Your employee chose to
10:17
Speaker 3: be an employee for the stability. Otherwise everybody would have
10:21
Speaker 3: their own businesses, right, Beck, Like everybody would be out
10:23
Speaker 3: on their own because the idea of business is that
10:27
Speaker 3: you make more than an average salary.
10:29
Speaker 1: Otherwise, why bother?
10:30
Speaker 2: Right?
10:31
Speaker 1: So, why would.
10:33
Speaker 3: You not have these open, honest conversations with your employees.
10:37
Speaker 3: But at the same time, I completely understand, like, sometimes
10:40
Speaker 3: your hands are tied in which case, why aren't you
10:43
Speaker 3: having that conversation with your employee?
10:44
Speaker 2: Beck?
10:45
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, things.
10:46
Speaker 3: Are really stretched at the moment. I know I should
10:49
Speaker 3: be paying you more, but I just can't cut.
10:51
Speaker 1: It right now.
10:52
Speaker 3: At least you know where you stand, and that gives you,
10:56
Speaker 3: as the employee, the opportunity to go well, actually that's
11:00
Speaker 3: not good enough for me at the moment, like rising
11:02
Speaker 3: cost of living, I can't really afford things. I might
11:05
Speaker 3: just start looking for a new role, or you might
11:07
Speaker 3: go no, it makes sense. I really respect that my
11:09
Speaker 3: employer has been so transparent with me. I'm actually kind
11:12
Speaker 3: of happy with the income. It would have been nice
11:14
Speaker 3: to have more, but like, I much prefer to like
11:16
Speaker 3: work at this company that I adore, then go somewhere
11:19
Speaker 3: else just for higher pay. Because everybody's values are different, right,
11:22
Speaker 3: So there's not a right or a wrong. But I
11:25
Speaker 3: think we need to be transparent, and I don't think
11:27
Speaker 3: in twenty twenty three most people are. No, so it
11:30
Speaker 3: blows my mind that people expect loyalty without giving back
11:35
Speaker 3: loyalty to their employees.
11:38
Speaker 1: True, that makes so much sense. Makes me mad. It
11:41
Speaker 1: makes me mad too. I'm actually kind of having a
11:43
Speaker 1: bit of an epiphany as you say that. I'm like,
11:45
Speaker 1: I think I have a lot of ADHD tendencies, maybe
11:48
Speaker 1: neuro spicy time.
11:49
Speaker 3: I told you this is so wildly inappropriate and I
11:53
Speaker 3: should not be diagnosing you. But the second I met you,
11:55
Speaker 3: I was like, oh, near a spicy friend. We both
11:58
Speaker 3: spit on our chairs. While we record.
12:00
Speaker 1: I can't keep still.
12:01
Speaker 3: I'm making paper cranes across the table. I'm gifting them
12:04
Speaker 3: to you. We have fidget toys that have now been
12:06
Speaker 3: confiscated because we make too much noise with them. Like, Babe,
12:09
Speaker 3: I'm really sorry to tell you this, but you are
12:12
Speaker 3: on some spectrum.
12:13
Speaker 1: I'm not sure which one it is that makes it,
12:15
Speaker 1: that makes it. The one that really tipped it over
12:17
Speaker 1: the edge for me was the injustice thing that you
12:19
Speaker 1: said Toeah. It makes me cry and it makes me
12:21
Speaker 1: so I can't like express can't let it go. I
12:24
Speaker 1: can't let it go. I can't let go become obsessed
12:26
Speaker 1: with it. So I'm going to maybe look into that.
12:28
Speaker 1: But V before I do, I have one thing for you, right, stats,
12:33
Speaker 1: girl show me. In February twenty twenty two, one point
12:37
Speaker 1: three million Australians changed jobs, accounting for ten percent of
12:42
Speaker 1: employed people, which was the highest annual job mobility rate
12:47
Speaker 1: since twenty twelve. I am not surprised. Do you know why.
12:51
Speaker 1: I'm not surprised?
12:52
Speaker 3: Why Because that was coming off the back of COVID true,
12:56
Speaker 3: so it was like, I don't know, I feel like
12:58
Speaker 3: lots of us were in the exact same position in COVID,
13:00
Speaker 3: where we're like, we've got a secure job. I'm not
13:03
Speaker 3: going to quit my job right now, because if you've
13:06
Speaker 3: got a job that's stable, like, don't mess with something
13:09
Speaker 3: that's not broken, especially at a time where there's not
13:12
Speaker 3: a lot of economic stability and you're not really sure
13:14
Speaker 3: what's going on. So I think a lot of us had,
13:17
Speaker 3: let's call it those two years of thinking time during.
13:20
Speaker 1: COVID to go do I want this?
13:22
Speaker 3: Do I not?
13:22
Speaker 1: And a lot of us were kind of like teeing up.
13:25
Speaker 3: Okay, Well, when this COVID thing's over, I'm going to
13:28
Speaker 3: find a new job. And I feel like when it
13:30
Speaker 3: started to be over, everybody got a little bit more comfortable.
13:34
Speaker 3: And then the new year happened and the end of
13:37
Speaker 3: January came and then February, Bam, I'm still in that
13:42
Speaker 3: dead end job that I don't want to be in. Yeah,
13:44
Speaker 3: I'm going to move. So that kind of makes sense
13:46
Speaker 3: as to why it was the biggest transition.
13:48
Speaker 1: But I think we got a lot of.
13:50
Speaker 3: What would you say, like exposure or like insight to
13:54
Speaker 3: our employers and how much they actually respected us or
13:57
Speaker 3: not during COVID.
13:58
Speaker 1: Has I definitely agree to kind of like, let us
14:01
Speaker 1: figure out if this is really what we wanted. It
14:04
Speaker 1: kind of was a time for everyone to really reflect
14:06
Speaker 1: on what the hell we're doing and what are we're doing.
14:09
Speaker 3: Most of us ended up working at home on jobs
14:12
Speaker 3: that we might not have liked. Yeah, and that I
14:14
Speaker 3: don't know if you have a job that you don't
14:16
Speaker 3: like and the only reason that you're really staying was
14:18
Speaker 3: for the culture that makes it even worse. Totally, So
14:22
Speaker 3: V let's break down the advantages of a job hopping.
14:25
Speaker 1: All right, let's talk about it.
14:26
Speaker 3: So salary increase is one of the advantages, right, So
14:31
Speaker 3: you can earn more Mueller kind of sexy. So when
14:34
Speaker 3: you stay with the same company for an extended period
14:36
Speaker 3: of time, your salary increases are often limited to standard
14:40
Speaker 3: raisers and your performance based ratings.
14:43
Speaker 1: Right.
14:43
Speaker 3: By moving to a new employer, you could negotiate a
14:46
Speaker 3: higher starting salary based on your updated skills or experience
14:50
Speaker 3: or the market demand. Miss jessic Ricci, who we know
14:53
Speaker 3: and love, has said before, I don't know how I
14:56
Speaker 3: feel about this as her current employer that whenever she
15:00
Speaker 3: goes for a new job, she just asks for ten
15:03
Speaker 3: percent more as a base to begin with, because she's like,
15:05
Speaker 3: I'm not leaving for less than ten percent more.
15:08
Speaker 1: It's always worked for her. Yeah, I love that.
15:09
Speaker 3: I kind of love that rule. I am the type
15:12
Speaker 3: of person that I think that's good. Please don't leave me, Jessica,
15:14
Speaker 3: negotiate your pay with me. But it's one of those
15:17
Speaker 3: things that just have some balls. Yeah, you want to
15:20
Speaker 3: move jobs back and you've done this job for a
15:22
Speaker 3: little while, just tack on an extra ten k.
15:25
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's actually very very smart.
15:27
Speaker 3: I think it's quite intellig Yes, Yeah, the next skill diversification,
15:32
Speaker 3: so job hopping. It's going to expose you to a
15:34
Speaker 3: variety of different work environments and industries and technologies like
15:38
Speaker 3: what you've gone through. Beck, Like, I feel like you're
15:40
Speaker 3: the office all rounder. Like, are you not the person
15:43
Speaker 3: that if she is hitting the fan in this office?
15:46
Speaker 1: Who do people come to?
15:47
Speaker 2: God?
15:48
Speaker 1: Well, I guess you could say I'm pretty much at
15:52
Speaker 1: big I'm pretty popular around here. Definitely just kidding, but yes,
15:55
Speaker 1: I'm not that I've learned some No.
15:57
Speaker 3: You're like the person that everyone's like, oh, can you
15:59
Speaker 3: get back back?
16:00
Speaker 1: Might fix that? That is where is the lie? Where
16:03
Speaker 1: is the lie?
16:04
Speaker 3: That's what they say. I don't see no life exactly.
16:07
Speaker 3: So each new position, it presents an opportunity to learn
16:10
Speaker 3: a new skill or have some more experience, or expand
16:12
Speaker 3: your expertise, which potentially makes you more valuable to future employers.
16:17
Speaker 3: What would this office do without you?
16:18
Speaker 1: Beck, Crumble exact, Crumble exactly. The next pro is career advancement.
16:25
Speaker 3: So switching jobs relatively strategically it could actually lead to
16:29
Speaker 3: faster career growth and increased responsibilities, which is kind of nice.
16:34
Speaker 3: New employers might recognize and reward your previous experiences, leading
16:38
Speaker 3: to quicker promotions and elevated positions. Yeah, okay, how many
16:43
Speaker 3: times have we seen it internally? Where if Beckleck, Let's
16:46
Speaker 3: pretend that you're in a stock standard role, which you're not,
16:49
Speaker 3: and you're like, oh, I'd love to move up to
16:51
Speaker 3: the manager position, right, but like the manager positions taken,
16:55
Speaker 3: But the company really likes you and they want to
16:57
Speaker 3: keep you in that role.
16:58
Speaker 1: So they keep telling you, yeah, Beck will train you,
17:00
Speaker 1: will do this, we'll do that.
17:01
Speaker 3: But you also know Analisa has that job, and Analsa
17:05
Speaker 3: hasn't left, and Analisa doesn't have any intention on leaving
17:07
Speaker 3: because Analsa loves her job and that's her dream job.
17:10
Speaker 3: So you actually don't have a lot of opportunity. But
17:13
Speaker 3: that company's probably going to keep telling you, oh, beck
17:15
Speaker 3: yup at the point at which you're ready, we can
17:18
Speaker 3: move you up. It's not gonna happen. Like, let's be logical. Yeah, yeah,
17:21
Speaker 3: a bit sad, but it's a bit true.
17:23
Speaker 1: Yeah.
17:24
Speaker 3: The amount of recruiters are going to be so mad
17:26
Speaker 3: at me. Oh my gosh, can't wait.
17:28
Speaker 1: For them to part my dms and be like Victoria,
17:31
Speaker 1: that's not true. We remunerate people. Can't wait, can't wait?
17:35
Speaker 1: Are you scared? No, sit down? Sit down? Am I
17:39
Speaker 1: ever scared? No, that's true. I've never seen you ever
17:42
Speaker 1: shake a boot.
17:43
Speaker 3: No, definitely gets scared. Sometimes I get so scared I cry. Oh,
17:48
Speaker 3: but I'm not scared of people telling me, oh, that's
17:51
Speaker 3: not how it works in my company, because I go, wow,
17:54
Speaker 3: then your experience must be a unicorn and I'm so
17:56
Speaker 3: proud of you. But that's not the experience of absolutely everybody.
18:00
Speaker 1: Sure.
18:00
Speaker 3: It's like when people say I've never experienced racism, so
18:04
Speaker 3: it must not exist.
18:05
Speaker 1: You're like, Okay, Craig Paul Kelly, I don't know if
18:12
Speaker 1: that's a real name. You can't say that. Sorry, Paul Kelly,
18:17
Speaker 1: whoever you are, I just thought as the whitest name
18:20
Speaker 1: to ever exists, so not Paul Kelly. I didn't realize
18:24
Speaker 1: Paul Kelly was a real person. Did you make a
18:26
Speaker 1: public apology to Paul Kelly? Please everyone exist?
18:32
Speaker 2: Yeah?
18:33
Speaker 1: But do you know what his work? He lives on
18:34
Speaker 1: the peninsula back Paul Kelly, I've I've probably been to
18:40
Speaker 1: his house before. You probably know his daughter. His daughter
18:45
Speaker 1: he's going with me. And not only that, but I
18:48
Speaker 1: hear he sings about racial device, so he's an ally.
18:52
Speaker 1: I'm so sorry, Paul Kelly. That's just the only name
18:56
Speaker 1: I thought of, and that's so.
18:59
Speaker 3: Arguably because that was I don't know if it was inappropriate,
19:03
Speaker 3: but it was funny.
19:04
Speaker 1: I'm very sorry.
19:06
Speaker 3: I reckon he might be on the spectrum because he's
19:08
Speaker 3: definitely got that in justice about him too.
19:10
Speaker 1: I love that. But I don't even know where we were.
19:13
Speaker 1: So let's move on to the next pay.
19:15
Speaker 2: Yeah.
19:15
Speaker 3: So the next point that I've written down, Beck is
19:19
Speaker 3: better negotiation skills, which I think are really important actually,
19:23
Speaker 3: like in life in general, to be able to negotiate
19:26
Speaker 3: is a skill. That's why it's called negotiation skills right,
19:29
Speaker 3: and job hoppers tend to develop stronger negotiation skills as
19:33
Speaker 3: they navigate various job oppers and conversation packages. And that
19:37
Speaker 3: is actually really powerful because it can put you in
19:40
Speaker 3: a better position long term. So being able to negotiate
19:44
Speaker 3: beck means that you're better at self advocating, and I
19:47
Speaker 3: think that that is a really really good skill to have.
19:50
Speaker 3: You're more likely to be like, oh, that's actually not right.
19:52
Speaker 3: How do I negotiate this? And I think that's kind
19:55
Speaker 3: of sexy, so not the worst thing. And then the
19:57
Speaker 3: last thing I've written down is networking opportunity. So job
20:01
Speaker 3: hopping could help you build a broader professional network, which
20:04
Speaker 3: is kind of good. If done right, it could lead
20:07
Speaker 3: to valuable connections and potential career opportunities in the future.
20:10
Speaker 1: I love that. I also love that, And this is
20:13
Speaker 1: a really good place to go for a really quick break. Yeah,
20:15
Speaker 1: we're going to go listen to So Kelly. We're going
20:18
Speaker 1: to educate you a bit more. I need it, and
20:21
Speaker 1: then when we come back we can talk a bit
20:23
Speaker 1: more about job hopping.
20:24
Speaker 3: Perfect.
20:25
Speaker 1: So anyway, okay, we are back. We've listened to some
20:33
Speaker 1: Paul Kelly, Yes and we've jammed, we've lived and laughed,
20:38
Speaker 1: and we're coming back now to what we were talking
20:41
Speaker 1: about beforehand, which is job hop hopping. So I noticed
20:44
Speaker 1: that you say the phrase if done right, But how
20:48
Speaker 1: do we do this right?
20:49
Speaker 3: That's such a fickle conversation, isn't it. So I've written
20:53
Speaker 3: down a few things that I think you need to
20:55
Speaker 3: do to do job hopping right, because I think sometimes
20:59
Speaker 3: we get a little bit excited and go, oh, I'll
21:01
Speaker 3: just change jobs, and then it's not what you dreamed
21:04
Speaker 3: of it being like the grass is always Greener's like,
21:07
Speaker 3: let's just check that the grass is greener before we
21:10
Speaker 3: actually make a big decision, because job hopping, as much
21:13
Speaker 3: as it is of little to no consequence long term,
21:18
Speaker 3: short term, it could make a massive difference. So first
21:21
Speaker 3: things first, big one, But I want you to define
21:24
Speaker 3: your career goals. Make them really clear, Beck, I think
21:28
Speaker 3: it's so important to understand what you're wanting from each
21:32
Speaker 3: move and how it actually aligns with your ultimate objectives.
21:35
Speaker 3: Maybe you're just changing because you're brought of the job
21:38
Speaker 3: that you're in, and that's actually okay to say I
21:40
Speaker 3: don't actually like the job that I've got.
21:42
Speaker 1: I want to try something different. That's fine.
21:44
Speaker 3: You might say I want something different, and to be honest,
21:47
Speaker 3: I don't know what I want to be when I
21:48
Speaker 3: grow up, but this feels good. Understanding why is really important.
21:53
Speaker 3: Continuing to upgrade and invest in your skills. So the
21:56
Speaker 3: more valuable you end up becoming in the job market,
21:59
Speaker 3: beck the higher salary negotiation power you have, the more
22:02
Speaker 3: stuff you can do, the more flips you can show.
22:06
Speaker 1: The more money they're gonna pay you.
22:07
Speaker 3: I love that money win. Establishing a strong foundation is
22:11
Speaker 3: really important. It is essential to have a solid work
22:14
Speaker 3: history and a few years of experience in your field
22:17
Speaker 3: before considering job hopping. So employers definitely value stability and
22:22
Speaker 3: commitment early in your career. And I think having a
22:25
Speaker 3: really strong narrative if you have left jobs early is
22:29
Speaker 3: also really important because people are going to go back.
22:31
Speaker 1: Why did your last four months there?
22:33
Speaker 2: Oh?
22:33
Speaker 1: I didn't like it. I was bored.
22:35
Speaker 3: That's probably not gonna fly in an interview in the
22:39
Speaker 3: way that you think it might, but saying look, after
22:42
Speaker 3: four months, I didn't want to waste any more of
22:44
Speaker 3: their time or any more of my time. I just
22:46
Speaker 3: knew that that was not the job for me. And
22:48
Speaker 3: that's why I'm sitting in front of you, because I've
22:49
Speaker 3: done my research and I understand what your job entails,
22:53
Speaker 3: and you feel like that's such a better fit yep,
22:55
Speaker 3: instead of I got bored because that's just not gonna
22:58
Speaker 3: cut it. Honestly, if someone said that to me, I'd
23:00
Speaker 3: be like, pretend it's something else, sure, because you don't
23:03
Speaker 3: know that they will get bored with you exactly exactly,
23:06
Speaker 3: And I think just being able to articulate yourself well
23:09
Speaker 3: right makes sense. The next is timing matters, so avoiding
23:14
Speaker 3: job hopping too frequently or without substantial achievements. So a
23:18
Speaker 3: general rule of thumb is to stay in a job
23:20
Speaker 3: for at least one or two years before exploring new opportunities.
23:24
Speaker 3: We're not saying stay ten, but like one or two years.
23:27
Speaker 3: I think at a minimum you pass probation in that
23:30
Speaker 3: job before you think about leaving, because if you're leaving
23:33
Speaker 3: within that first six month period, if that's what your
23:35
Speaker 3: probation looks like, to me, that can be a little
23:38
Speaker 3: bit of a red flag, especially if there are a
23:40
Speaker 3: number of them, because you kind of go, why is
23:43
Speaker 3: Beck not making probation right?
23:45
Speaker 1: Right?
23:46
Speaker 3: She might have quit, but was that her choice, Like, right, Okay,
23:49
Speaker 3: do you know what I mean?
23:50
Speaker 1: Yeah, I see what you mean.
23:51
Speaker 3: The next is evaluate company culture and growth opportunities. So
23:55
Speaker 3: look for companies that offer room for growth and mentoring
23:58
Speaker 3: programs and supportive work culture. Don't solely focus on salary.
24:02
Speaker 3: Consider the overall potential of your career advancement, because we
24:06
Speaker 3: know that more money does not equal more happiness. As
24:10
Speaker 3: much as you might think, it might fix everything and
24:13
Speaker 3: it might make things a little bit more comfy in
24:15
Speaker 3: the really, really short term, it's not going to solve
24:18
Speaker 3: world hunger. No, sorry, MO money more problems, Mo money,
24:22
Speaker 3: more problems. The next is network and build relationships. Networking
24:26
Speaker 3: plays a crucial role in job hopping success, so attend
24:30
Speaker 3: industry events or conferences that are related to your industry.
24:34
Speaker 3: Attend job fairs to connect with potential employers and industry professionals.
24:38
Speaker 3: The other thing that I adore, and I've said this
24:40
Speaker 3: on the podcast one million and one times back, I
24:43
Speaker 3: love LinkedIn.
24:44
Speaker 1: I mean, she's a LinkedIn girly, I'm a LinkedIn queen.
24:48
Speaker 3: I mean I'm not that active on it nowadays because
24:50
Speaker 3: I just don't have time. But when I was in
24:53
Speaker 3: that phase of finding new jobs and looking for new opportunities.
24:57
Speaker 3: You know how much creep and you can do. I
24:59
Speaker 3: love it creepy LinkedIn stalk like, Oh, I want Beck's job.
25:03
Speaker 3: I'm going to go see what Beck has done before
25:05
Speaker 3: that job? How did Beck get into that job? So
25:08
Speaker 3: she worked at a RN and this job and this job,
25:11
Speaker 3: and now she has this one.
25:12
Speaker 1: Oh that's kind of cool.
25:13
Speaker 3: Career progressionate that maybe I'm interested in that company.
25:17
Speaker 1: That could be cool. That's interesting. It is scary though,
25:20
Speaker 1: when you can see the little notification that says it
25:23
Speaker 1: has been Just turn it off. But what if you
25:25
Speaker 1: don't want other people to see that you just turn
25:27
Speaker 1: it off? Oh can you do that? Yeah?
25:29
Speaker 3: If you turn it off, it means that you can't
25:31
Speaker 3: see who's visited your profile, but they can't see you either.
25:34
Speaker 3: Qua street. You can't just have it one way.
25:37
Speaker 1: That's very good to know. Actually, so Beck, who cares?
25:40
Speaker 1: That's true? No one should get after this, I'm going
25:42
Speaker 1: to go straight back to creeping.
25:43
Speaker 3: Yeah, go back to creeping and you can creep anonymously,
25:46
Speaker 3: which we really like. But I also think, what's the
25:49
Speaker 3: worst thing that could happen if somebody saw that you
25:51
Speaker 3: were on their profile, they go, oh, Beck's.
25:54
Speaker 1: Interested in working with me. Oh, Beck's interested in my job.
25:58
Speaker 2: True?
25:58
Speaker 3: Cool, Well you should do make it a little bit
26:01
Speaker 3: more creepy, Beck, Why don't you reach out to them
26:03
Speaker 3: if you think they're a cool human being and you
26:05
Speaker 3: want to know more about their job.
26:06
Speaker 1: Do you know what people love doing? Beck? Like talking
26:09
Speaker 1: about themselves?
26:10
Speaker 3: Oh, people love talking about themselves. So if I reached
26:14
Speaker 3: out to you, I said, oh, Beck, your job looks
26:17
Speaker 3: so cool. I'd love to know more about how you
26:20
Speaker 3: got to where you are.
26:22
Speaker 1: Can I buy your coffee? I think I would like that.
26:24
Speaker 1: I see what you mean. Yeah, okay, well maybe exactly.
26:27
Speaker 3: And you know what, then you get to meet someone,
26:29
Speaker 3: maybe in a job that you aspire to have, or
26:32
Speaker 3: maybe in a company that you're like, Oh, I've been
26:34
Speaker 3: looking at this company for ages, and you know there's
26:36
Speaker 3: a few roles being advertised, like oh got a little
26:40
Speaker 3: internal reference?
26:41
Speaker 1: Now do your friend? True Eke smart and not harder?
26:44
Speaker 3: Beck, I love that all for the cost of a coffee.
26:46
Speaker 3: That's great. Great advice, call me LinkedIn call me. The
26:50
Speaker 3: next is craft a compelling resume and cover letter. So
26:54
Speaker 3: customize your resume and cover letter for each application highlighting
26:57
Speaker 3: your relevant achievements and experience that align with the potential
27:01
Speaker 3: employer's needs. Now I need to admit got in a
27:05
Speaker 3: fight the other day on TikTok. Oh my gosh, I'm
27:08
Speaker 3: really good at it. My husband says I need to
27:11
Speaker 3: be less spicy.
27:12
Speaker 1: What happened?
27:13
Speaker 3: So the first one was about there was like a
27:15
Speaker 3: bolonnaise recipe that went up on TikTok, and I knew
27:18
Speaker 3: that I was starting a fight when I said, when
27:21
Speaker 3: does the LGI might get added to the bolonnaise recipe?
27:24
Speaker 3: And all the Americans jumped down my throat and said
27:26
Speaker 3: that's not traditional, that's not nice, as if deep dish
27:30
Speaker 3: pizza is traditional. But then a video and Cheese on
27:34
Speaker 3: the Money went up about resumes and cover letters and
27:37
Speaker 3: how I approach resumes and cover letters and I sometimes
27:41
Speaker 3: only read your cover letters because I think it's really
27:43
Speaker 3: important to hire for cultural fit and I want to
27:46
Speaker 3: know how passionate you are. And so many people in
27:48
Speaker 3: that comment section will l like, well, I got my
27:50
Speaker 3: job without a cover letter. I've never written a cover letter.
27:53
Speaker 3: I've never done this, I've never done that.
27:55
Speaker 1: I don't care.
27:56
Speaker 3: Right you're telling ever, I'm giving you some examples of
28:01
Speaker 3: how you could put your best foot forward. And do
28:04
Speaker 3: you know what does that a really well written cover letter?
28:08
Speaker 2: Right?
28:08
Speaker 3: Because do you know what happens in jobs that are
28:10
Speaker 3: actually wanted and really good jobs? There's a plethora of applicants.
28:14
Speaker 3: How do you put yourself above and beyond them by
28:17
Speaker 3: making a clear and concise cover letter that explains exactly
28:21
Speaker 3: why you think that that is the job for you? Yep?
28:25
Speaker 3: Like I know that some places go just flick through
28:27
Speaker 3: your resume. Do you know what if you're finding a
28:31
Speaker 3: new job, take the time to write a cover letter?
28:33
Speaker 2: Ye?
28:33
Speaker 1: Do you know how easy it is nowadays with.
28:35
Speaker 3: Chat GPT tru like have chat gpt, write you a
28:39
Speaker 3: template that you can edit, like do something, because at
28:43
Speaker 3: the end of the day, I think it actually puts
28:45
Speaker 3: you in far better standing to actually secure the job.
28:49
Speaker 3: I don't care if you've got your job without a
28:52
Speaker 3: cover letter or a resume before Sure, that's not what
28:54
Speaker 3: we're talking about. Like this episode is about job hopping,
28:57
Speaker 3: and if your job hopping to raise your income has
29:00
Speaker 3: to be some level of work associated with that, beck
29:02
Speaker 3: you want to earn ten more grand And if I
29:04
Speaker 3: tell you that sitting down You're going to be a
29:06
Speaker 3: far better opportunity to get that job if you sat down,
29:10
Speaker 3: maybe spend a couple of hours on writing a really
29:12
Speaker 3: really nice resume and cover letter. Is that worth your time?
29:16
Speaker 3: I would say so exactly. Do you know what's not
29:18
Speaker 3: worth your time? Not caring about the little things, because
29:21
Speaker 3: the little things sometimes are the really big things.
29:24
Speaker 1: Right. And I know that I'm not.
29:26
Speaker 3: The representation of every standard employer in Australia, but I
29:30
Speaker 3: can almost guarantee that every recruiter and every person who's
29:33
Speaker 3: ever gotten a cover letter appreciates it totally. Why not
29:37
Speaker 3: it's saying I've put more time and energy into this
29:40
Speaker 3: application than any other applicant.
29:42
Speaker 1: Yes, that's a very sexy thing to do. And who's
29:45
Speaker 1: it hurt to just chuck a cover letter in the mix?
29:47
Speaker 1: You know what I mean?
29:48
Speaker 3: And they're not going to go Beck, you write a
29:50
Speaker 3: cover letter and we did not ask for that. They're
29:53
Speaker 3: going to read it and be like, Beck, sounds like
29:55
Speaker 3: a mad dog. Well you would hope, so, thank you
29:57
Speaker 3: so mud because I wrote it for you. But just basically.
30:00
Speaker 1: Reference, I am very sorry to hear that you just
30:04
Speaker 1: giving your experience online is very sad it's totally really fun.
30:10
Speaker 1: Oh good, I'm glad to find it fun. But I
30:12
Speaker 1: imagine that there are some ways to get this wrong
30:14
Speaker 1: in some cont.
30:16
Speaker 3: And we really should talk about it as well, because obviously,
30:19
Speaker 3: job hopping could make you seem relatively instable, sure instable,
30:24
Speaker 3: unstable gives you the perception of instability.
30:28
Speaker 1: Let's say that that's good. That's good. Yeah, that makes
30:31
Speaker 1: me sound real smart.
30:32
Speaker 3: That's very cheat that So frequent job changes, they might
30:35
Speaker 3: actually lead employers to think that you're less committed or
30:38
Speaker 3: you're a bit unstable as an employee.
30:41
Speaker 1: That's not good.
30:42
Speaker 3: But with good articulation and understanding and thought behind job hopping,
30:47
Speaker 3: I think that we can counter that. The next is
30:50
Speaker 3: limited benefits. So some benefits like retirement savings I your
30:55
Speaker 3: superinnuation or health care plans, they might take time to
30:59
Speaker 3: accrue a new companies or new jobs, right, and that
31:03
Speaker 3: might result in a temporary gap in coverage. So I
31:07
Speaker 3: know that in Australia we're relatively lucky because we've got Medicare,
31:10
Speaker 3: but I'm finding it more and more common recently a
31:13
Speaker 3: few of my friends have recently got new jobs and
31:15
Speaker 3: they're like, the private.
31:16
Speaker 1: Healthcare is included.
31:17
Speaker 3: Really, one of my other friends just got a new
31:19
Speaker 3: job income protection included, okay, And I.
31:23
Speaker 1: Was so skeptical back.
31:25
Speaker 3: I was like, show me, like it must be dodgy.
31:28
Speaker 1: Yeah, must be trash, must be no salary or something. No,
31:32
Speaker 1: it's adjusting protection. It's a really really good plan.
31:35
Speaker 3: And I say, hey, this is hot. Stay with this
31:38
Speaker 3: employee for the next thirty years.
31:39
Speaker 1: Okay, ten out of ten.
31:41
Speaker 3: Yeah, so that could be really important to take into consideration. Sure, Also,
31:45
Speaker 3: we should be talking about these things because if other
31:47
Speaker 3: people are getting those benefits, maybe those are things that
31:49
Speaker 3: we could negotiate.
31:50
Speaker 1: That's a very good point.
31:52
Speaker 3: The next is adjustment period. So each job change might
31:55
Speaker 3: require an adjustment period, so that would impact on your
31:58
Speaker 3: work life balance and your productivity. And I mean, I
32:02
Speaker 3: don't know about you, this is really lame, but historically,
32:07
Speaker 3: to me, nothing's more embarrassing than being the new.
32:11
Speaker 1: Girl at work.
32:12
Speaker 3: Oh, I hated it. I'd always be like I don't
32:16
Speaker 3: know anybody. I need to sit at my desk twenty
32:20
Speaker 3: four to seven, I've forgotten everybody else's names, or like
32:24
Speaker 3: I'm not the most social person. I feel like you
32:26
Speaker 3: just roll in and be like, what's up, it's Beck hahaha,
32:29
Speaker 3: and I find fun.
32:31
Speaker 1: Really I hate it. I can't stand it.
32:34
Speaker 3: So we need to allocate for these adjustment periods where
32:37
Speaker 3: you're going to be trained in the new role and
32:38
Speaker 3: you have to learn about the company and their culture
32:41
Speaker 3: and maybe their history. So I think that needs to
32:43
Speaker 3: be taken into consideration. And then the last thing I've
32:47
Speaker 3: got for you, Beck, is missed long term opportunities. So
32:50
Speaker 3: if you're changing jobs all the time, you might actually
32:53
Speaker 3: miss out on long term opportunities and potential rewards that
32:56
Speaker 3: come from staying loyal to a single employer.
33:00
Speaker 1: They could be.
33:00
Speaker 3: Long service leaf true, it could be you know, if
33:03
Speaker 3: you're with the company for a certain period of time,
33:06
Speaker 3: there are benefits.
33:06
Speaker 1: That they give to you. Get a gift voucher.
33:09
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean the fifty dollars gift voucher as a
33:11
Speaker 3: bonus is not going to make me stay in the job, Thank.
33:14
Speaker 1: You, Sharon.
33:17
Speaker 3: But I think it's important to understand what that might
33:19
Speaker 3: look like for your career because that's going to be
33:21
Speaker 3: different for everybody. Right Like in your situation, Beck, you
33:25
Speaker 3: work in media, and job hopping around in media can
33:29
Speaker 3: be seen as one of two things. It could be
33:31
Speaker 3: she's really in demand, or she's not as good as
33:34
Speaker 3: you think she is, right, but in different areas that
33:37
Speaker 3: might be seen differently, and obviously long term opportunities that
33:41
Speaker 3: come with a long period of tenure, you know, think
33:44
Speaker 3: about whether those things are really important to you, right.
33:48
Speaker 3: I don't know what they are off the top of
33:50
Speaker 3: my head, but it's a point that I've written down
33:51
Speaker 3: that I think is really important to take into consideration.
33:54
Speaker 1: Beck, that is very good point. Are we done? I
33:56
Speaker 1: think I'm satisfied. Do you feel I'm.
33:58
Speaker 3: Relatively satisfied and need to get back to my TikTok comments?
34:01
Speaker 2: Though?
34:01
Speaker 1: That is so Fie. I need to jump on LinkedIn
34:03
Speaker 1: and have a little scroll. I feel like LinkedIn is
34:06
Speaker 1: where all the hot people are. I'm sorry, that's where
34:08
Speaker 1: they are. It's the true. I'm gonna go have a look,
34:11
Speaker 1: all right, She's on LinkedIn. It makes sense. Max is nothing.
34:15
Speaker 3: Have a really good week, guys, and we will see
34:17
Speaker 3: you on Friday. By the advice shared on She's on
34:26
Speaker 3: the Money is general in nature and does not consider
34:29
Speaker 3: your individual circumstances. She's on the Money exists purely for
34:33
Speaker 3: educational purposes and should not be relied upon to make
34:36
Speaker 3: an investment or financial decision. If you do choose to
34:39
Speaker 3: buy a financial product, read the PDS TMD and obtain
34:42
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