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Lessons - From Nobody to Closing $2 Billion in Deals | Oren Klaff - Pitch Anything Author · Success Story with Scott Clary

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  In this lessons episode, explore why control and sales is essential to building trust and closing
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  deals without pressure. Discover how predictable behavior weakens influence and invites
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  buyer dominance. Understand why traditional discovery calls frustrate prospects and waste
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  opportunities and uncover strategies to frame conversations that create autonomy while keeping
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  control of the process.
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  Now, I love the way you switch the mindset when you go into the sales conversation, but
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  a lot of people, I think, have an issue trusting. It's trusting the process, right? A lot
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  of people have an issue trusting the process. So, I guess, do you have advice for someone
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  who's selling who doesn't want to blow the deal? That's the constant thing that's stuck in
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  everyone's head and that's why people default to the other way, the traditional way,
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  the not good way of selling. Yeah, I haven't thought about this before, but it'll be great.
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  I know you have a very sophisticated listener base. Maybe they could memorize this line and
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  try and it's sort of when you have the customer who's trying to take control, the sense is,
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  hey Scott, just when you think you know the answer, I change the question.
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  And by that, I mean the predictable nature of your behavior as a salesperson is the thing
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  that works against you. People come to meetings, not to hear the features and the benefits and
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  the price. You get that on the internet, get that on a Zoom call, right? People come to a meeting
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  to meet new, interesting, colorful people with real insight about their business, who's an expert
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  in their kind of problem, who they can work with to really get a solution to the problem they have.
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  And so that person has to be you. They spend time with that person when that person offers
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  insight and novel solutions to what the buyer already knows. So if you are just
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  diligently giving a buyer what it is you have, the features, the benefits, the solution,
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  or your customers are, it is putting the buyer in total control.
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  And so when you feel like you don't want to put any pressure on the buyer or blow up your sale,
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  you're doing the exact opposite. By not pressuring the buyer in any way and just following the
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  stamp of sale plan, you're actually jeopardizing the sale, right? The buyer will chase you and be
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  interested and start to invest time when he knows you're an expert, you have a great product,
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  you're the best in the world, right? And that you're not just allowing him to buy and be in total
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  control. When you take that control away, it raises the stakes and makes the buyer interested.
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  You cannot end a sales presentation by insane. So what do you think? Would you be interested in this?
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  Do you have any questions? The buyer gets control because I don't have any questions right now.
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  Similar to the material, you don't mind sending a proposal. We'll take a look at it. I got a
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  show to the committee. I meet with the Sasquatch and the Loch Ness Monster. Every 30th of the month,
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  they tell me when I'm allowed to budget. I got to check budgeting. I'll get back to you.
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  If we have any more questions, and then they're going to go look for another version of what it is,
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  you sell cheaper, better from China. So to answer your question, when you don't go for control,
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  because you're scared of it, you're actually harming yourself more than you ever could
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  by going for control. The issue is control. By not attempting to take control at all,
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  you end up being controlled by the buyer. So I love that. Thank you. Because I think a lot of
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  people have to hear that again and again and again and beat it into their heads because I fully
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  agree that if you can't control that, you can't offer anything besides the points that are listed
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  on the website. You're taking this further obviously and I'm putting it very simply, but if you're
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  just offering the points on the website, what good are you? You're a walking brochure and that's
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  not going to help anybody, right? That's not helping the customer. If you actually care about the
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  customer, you're actually doing them to service. So let's talk about, and at any point, I don't know
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  where the good kickoff point to flip the script is. So you tell me, but control flip the script sounds
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  like a control thing. I know you spoke a lot about control and pitch anything about framing about,
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  and I don't know is that is control something that you always have to fight for or does it come
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  naturally? How do you there's so many techniques and strategies? How do you know when you have to
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  think about control and when it's just the way you conduct yourself? And then we can go and flip
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  this script. The reason it's a scary word is you can control people. It's not possible,
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  right? So now you have an orange laugh, Scotch Larry talking about control, right? And so you're
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  confused and understand, you should be. So because you cannot tell people what to do, you cannot
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  force anybody to do something. Can I corner anybody into a position? You can't ask,
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  uh, by the way, this is sales on gladiator, you know, how do we corner somebody? How do we force
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  to eat all the time when people say, hey, everybody, you having a good time? You know,
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  everybody here ready to learn something? Yeah, motherfucker, I came to the conference, you know,
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  it's nine in the morning, I had a cup of coffee, nothing can go wrong.
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  Something, those are rhetorical questions. It's a setup, right? Hey, Mr. Jones, you know,
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  if I could get you the air conditioning unit, you know, the could air conditioning your whole building
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  and lower your price, and we could take away your old unit and wouldn't cost you anything,
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  is that something you'd be interested in? Yeah, asshole. Of course, I'd be interested in it,
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  but that's not how the world works, right? So, so when you, now, the buyer's not going to
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  probably call you a motherfucker, right? But he will think it, okay? Depends, depends on the buyer,
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  but yeah, I'll do it for you. Oh, but, but the rhetorical questions, or asking,
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  doing sort of explore to our discovery calls, the discovery calls are very popular today with
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  young people. I don't know how you are, you're like 23 years old, but, you know, these 22, 23 year old
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  millennials have sort of, uh, glomed on to this idea of the discovery call. I think they've
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  been so smart and clever, and so, you know, how long have you felt this pain? Where do you see yourself
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  on five years? Scott, um, you know, if you could solve this problem, what would that mean for you?
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  You know, um, the, you know, how long have you been dealing with this? You know, what would be the
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  ideal solution in your mind? Hey, hey, listen to asshole, right? I came to his cell call for you
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  to solve my problems. Not for me to solve my solve my problems. I've already tried to solve them.
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  You know, the buyer, I've tried to solve my problem that I failed. I ordered some stuff online.
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  It didn't work. I hired a local consultant. That failed. I hired my, my, uh, niece, you know,
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  just got an MBA to set up the website and she screwed it up. Now we have holes in our data
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  system. So I've failed at this. Okay. I cannot teach you, but, but anything, just look at my problem,
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  right? I understand the basics of it. And give me your insight on where a solution can come from.
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  I don't want to spend half an hour telling you, I have a very common problem. My firewall doesn't work.
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  Right? You tell me what you know about firewalls, but this is not a diss, I don't want to spend
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  15, 20 minutes sharing with you all of my problems. You should be able to recognize my problems and
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  be familiar with it. So, um, the, the, by doing a discovery call, by being nice, by being looking for
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  rapport, by doing all the things that you sort of see other, other salespeople do, you are, um,
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  not only you're losing control, but you're, you are not controlling the sale in a way that's
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  frustrating for the buyer. The buyer wants to see you controlling it. Okay. He wants you to ask
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  very specific questions. Hey, it looks like your firewall is, you know, causing a couple data
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  security hacks. They're coming over the TCP IP 11. It looks like you've got, you know, 17 breaches
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  in the last 60 days, you know, five of those involved the real data loss. You know, we see this
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  pretty often, this happens in, you know, 58 to 80 person organizations as they start to crest
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  through eight petabytes of data. Is that about, I don't like, I'm not even in this business, right?
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  But is that about right? You know, they want to see you starting to control the set of ideas
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  and the conversation controlling the frame. Yeah. Around which the conversation is happening.
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  So pitch anything was about frame control. How to focus the buyer on certain things that
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  matter and get their focus away from things that don't matter. How to control, you know, how to
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  frame time, how to frame power, how to frame scarcity. And these are the things that can be done.
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  And it gives some ideas on how to do it. Flip the script gives the script
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  to control the presentation and the conversation and the sales process with the buyer. You have
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  the, so, so the real outcome was flip the script. It lets you create a sandbox. And that's where the
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  control is. It lets you create a sandbox that the buyer can then play in and do anything you
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  want. Have autonomy. That's what could, that's a problem with control, right? When you really
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  try and control somebody, so Scott, what do you think? Is this something to be interested in?
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  If I can get you the price that you were looking for, you know, is this something we could
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  sign up for today? Take a wet. I have a special discount. It expires in a week. I'll talk to my
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  manager and if he'll approve you, I can get this for just $900 a month. Does that something we can
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  go forward with? Right? That is aggressive and it's controlling. The reason you don't like that
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  is because it takes away your autonomy. Mm-hmm. In autonomy, you can have Maslow's hierarchy and
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  needs. What he forgot to put on it is autonomy, food, water, shelter, love, safety, above all of that
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  stuff is autonomy. I would rather die on my feet than live on my knees. Every human has that built
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  into their DNA, right? Autonomy and self-governance is the highest emotional, highest survival need.
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  So when you as a salesperson start to take away autonomy, self-governance, self-decision
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  making ability, then you're losing the sale. So you work so hard as a salesperson to all be nice
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  and prepare a presentation of the features and benefits, then towards the end of the sale,
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  start to take the buyers autonomy away when they're tired. They want to leave. They really don't
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  want to see face anymore. And now you're going for control, take their autonomy away. That creates
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  a failure state. So flip the script. Let's you create a sandbox where you set all the parameters
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  and then you back away and you give total autonomy to the buyer at the time that he wants it.
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  And that's why when we close, like you say, oh, you know, hey, ornclap, so the million copies
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  of pitch anything. Number one, most interviewed sales, you know, trainer, sales guy,
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  pitch guy, finance guy, you know, on the internet. And what's your best clothes?
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  And my best clothes is this. So that's anything else we should do here. I think we're wrapping up.
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  You know, if you don't have anything else, we're probably going to pack up our stuff and leave.
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  That's my clothes. Because you can't close at the end. There's nothing you can do at the end of
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  the sale to push somebody into making a purchase. Now, if you do most of the time, it just falls apart.
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  Like it'll fall apart of contract and fall apart of finance, follow it. So yeah, maybe you can
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  get a signature. You can get it. Yes. But in a deal, and remember, I don't sell TVs. You know,
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  I raised $10 million dollars or sell a million dollar contracts or five or a thousand other things.
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  You know, maybe you could sell a TV that way. I don't know, an iPhone, maybe a car. But when
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  you're really getting to enterprise sales or services, the end of the sale is not when you
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  consider to control someone to put some in the deal, even if you get it, it will fall apart. So
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  what you can do is set the whole thing up. Big idea, problem, the solution, why do it now?
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  The value proposition, what you get, how it works, the social proof, or the reputation,
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  you know, who else we work with, what we think the solution is. And then you could say, but
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  I need to get more, I need to know more about you, as I said before, before we sort of agree
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  to work with you. Right. And so when you set it up in that way, you set up the sandbox where they
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  are pitching you to become of, of, of, you know, how to work with you as opposed to you pitching
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  the idea that they should, you know, sign an agreement or give you a yes.
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  you