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Unlocking the Brain: The Future of Neurotherapy with Lara Schulz · Hardiness with Dr Paul Taylor

0:09
Speaker 1: Lara Schultz, Welcome to the podcast.
0:12
Speaker 2: Thank you, Paul.
0:14
Speaker 1: I was just telling you before we come on er
0:16
Speaker 1: that when I looked you up when you booked and
0:19
Speaker 1: I looked you up, I'm like, I've heard about you
0:21
Speaker 1: and your practice from a mate of mine, Eric Yeger,
0:27
Speaker 1: I know from the days in SAP and he was
0:31
Speaker 1: really into the stuff that I'm doing. And then once
0:34
Speaker 1: again the coaching, but he talked about a practice in
0:37
Speaker 1: gingder Bne doing neurotherapy. And it turns out with you.
0:41
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a small world, isn't it.
0:43
Speaker 1: It is a very small world. So tell our listeners.
0:47
Speaker 1: Let let's let's start with the big picture. What is
0:51
Speaker 1: neurotherapy first of all, and then why did you get
0:54
Speaker 1: into it?
0:55
Speaker 3: Okay, cool? So neurotherapy is a brain based form of
1:02
Speaker 3: therapy where I work in a silo where I understand
1:08
Speaker 3: brain behavior essentially. Right, So you've got three silos now
1:12
Speaker 3: in Australia. You've got psychology, psychiatry, and now we've got
1:16
Speaker 3: psychophysiology and so my job is to understand the brain behavior.
1:20
Speaker 3: Psychology is about human behavior, psychiatry is about the biomedical
1:25
Speaker 3: aspect of that, and then you've got the psychophysiology, which
1:29
Speaker 3: is brain behavior essentially, so forever that silo has been
1:35
Speaker 3: missing in and it's quite a key component, right, because
1:39
Speaker 3: if we don't actually understand the psychophysiology of how the
1:43
Speaker 3: brain behaves, we miss so many vital clues and information
1:50
Speaker 3: when we do the deep dive into the system in
1:53
Speaker 3: and around what's going on. So, for example, I have
1:57
Speaker 3: elderly women and men sent to me for treatment for
2:01
Speaker 3: dementia and Alzheimer's, Parkinson's, and so a lot of the
2:04
Speaker 3: time what I see is a is a misdiagnosis essentially
2:09
Speaker 3: of of what it is that the individual believes is
2:12
Speaker 3: wrong with them. And so when we do the deep
2:15
Speaker 3: dive and we do the EEG, and we do the ERPs,
2:19
Speaker 3: a lot of the time I'll be like, Oh, you
2:22
Speaker 3: don't actually have dementia, my friend. What we're dealing with
2:25
Speaker 3: here is actually a trauma profile. And so you know,
2:28
Speaker 3: I've had geriatricians diagnosed patients with dementia and I've seen
2:32
Speaker 3: absolutely no sign of dementia.
2:35
Speaker 2: And so I'm not making that assumption on my own.
2:39
Speaker 3: I'm taking all of the the eyes open EG, the
2:43
Speaker 3: eyes closed EEG, and the event related potentials visual which
2:46
Speaker 3: is a cognitive assessment, and I'm throwing it into our database.
2:52
Speaker 3: And it's an AI tool as well. Now that's just
2:55
Speaker 3: been created in the US. And so what this tool
2:59
Speaker 3: does is it measures all of the data that I've
3:03
Speaker 3: thrown into the system, and it looks at it across
3:08
Speaker 3: a database full of patients who have a clinical diagnosis
3:12
Speaker 3: of dementia or Alzheimer's or a degenerative issue, and it
3:16
Speaker 3: measures what that brain looks like compared to a clinically
3:20
Speaker 3: diagnosed brain with dementia. Now I know what dementia and
3:25
Speaker 3: the slowing looks like in the brain right when it
3:28
Speaker 3: presents with that and when I don't see those hallmark
3:32
Speaker 3: signs in an EEG or an ERP. And then you
3:36
Speaker 3: throw it through the database, I will quite often get
3:39
Speaker 3: a tool that gives me a percentage or a measurement,
3:43
Speaker 3: which they're in the red. So if it's a positive
3:47
Speaker 3: classification for a dementia or Alzheimer's, or if I happen
3:52
Speaker 3: to throw it through the PDSD trauma box as well,
3:57
Speaker 3: and then I'll get a measurement for a trauma profile.
4:00
Speaker 3: So for example, that woman that I was talking about,
4:03
Speaker 3: she got like a her numbers were in the green.
4:06
Speaker 3: So there was no positive classification for dementia, and there
4:09
Speaker 3: was a very positive classification for PTSD and trauma. And
4:14
Speaker 3: so part of what I do when I'm working with
4:18
Speaker 3: people is I do a really in depth background in
4:21
Speaker 3: history with each person, right, And so for this particular woman,
4:25
Speaker 3: she lost a child in a car accident all of
4:28
Speaker 3: a sudden, and so her entire system shut down.
4:33
Speaker 2: White her central nervous system was a mess. You know.
4:37
Speaker 3: So with every EEG so brain scan that I do,
4:40
Speaker 3: I always do it an ECG, so I'm understanding how
4:43
Speaker 3: the brain and the heart are communicating with each other.
4:46
Speaker 3: So I can very clearly see if we've got a
4:49
Speaker 3: trauma profile so the central nervous system is in vital flight,
4:52
Speaker 3: or I can see if the patient has a depressed profile.
4:57
Speaker 1: Can we just start right, I want to go back.
5:00
Speaker 1: We will come into the depth here, but I just
5:02
Speaker 1: want to take a step back. My listeners will have
5:05
Speaker 1: heard me say I'm pretty critical of psychology and psychiatry
5:12
Speaker 1: because there are all of these conditions or dysfunctions or
5:19
Speaker 1: whatever they label them as that has been ever expanding
5:23
Speaker 1: in each release of the d s M to the
5:26
Speaker 1: point neither d s M five has got thody hundreds
5:30
Speaker 1: and not one of them has a consistent, clear biological
5:37
Speaker 1: signature right now. And what you're talking about here is
5:41
Speaker 1: biological signatures like every other. And when you look at medicine,
5:46
Speaker 1: every disease, when you get diabetes, heart disease, cancer, whatever
5:51
Speaker 1: it is, there's a very clear, consistent, repeatable biological signature.
5:57
Speaker 1: But my understanding, although I recently read a research paper
6:02
Speaker 1: about major depression where there was seemingly a clear biological signal,
6:08
Speaker 1: but the vast majority of people are going in and
6:11
Speaker 1: getting an assessment on fiking met up questionner with leading
6:17
Speaker 1: questions that has been ever expanding, and then they're put
6:22
Speaker 1: on medications that widespread effects.
6:27
Speaker 2: Don't get me started on this. It just makes me rage.
6:31
Speaker 3: It's a box ticking exercise, right, We all know how
6:34
Speaker 3: to manipulate a box ticking exercise. And I mean no
6:37
Speaker 3: disrespect to the field of psychology. My mum is a
6:40
Speaker 3: doctor of clinical psychology. We work together very closely in
6:43
Speaker 3: my practice.
6:46
Speaker 2: There is a place for it.
6:47
Speaker 3: I don't deny that, but I just from my experience
6:52
Speaker 3: and over the many years, you cannot make a diagnosis
6:58
Speaker 3: of a box ticking exercise alone must do the deep
7:01
Speaker 3: dive into the psychophysiology of the brain.
7:04
Speaker 2: And you know, it just speaks to like especially.
7:07
Speaker 3: With children with ADHD autism, I see so many children
7:12
Speaker 3: on antipsychotic medications because the experts don't actually know what
7:17
Speaker 3: it is that they're dealing with. Children are misdiagnosed on
7:20
Speaker 3: a daily basis. They may have a new presentation where
7:24
Speaker 3: their sensorymotor cortex is working over time, so therefore their
7:28
Speaker 3: frontal lobe can't switch on.
7:30
Speaker 1: And to this point, I had a great conversation with
7:35
Speaker 1: a psychologist yesterday involved in the LaRita Academy, and they
7:41
Speaker 1: are basically helping disadvantage kids. But he has a background
7:46
Speaker 1: in trauma and trauma and forign therapy and rightly points
7:50
Speaker 1: out which I'm sure you'll be all over, that trauma
7:54
Speaker 1: fundamentally changes the briand it puts the central nervous system,
7:59
Speaker 1: so the in a central nervous system goes into a hyperarized,
8:04
Speaker 1: hypervigilant st it and cognitive processing is very very different,
8:12
Speaker 1: articularly and children who had trauma, or to your point,
8:15
Speaker 1: an adult who goes through and when I'm saying trauma,
8:18
Speaker 1: I'm talking big t trauma, not the little t trauma,
8:22
Speaker 1: but an adult who's been through a very traumatic experience,
8:25
Speaker 1: like the leader you're talking about. Just that fundamentally changes
8:29
Speaker 1: the brian either the brian and central nervous system is
8:32
Speaker 1: actually processing things.
8:35
Speaker 2: Changes everything.
8:37
Speaker 3: Every single aspect of how you function is permanently changed.
8:41
Speaker 3: Your hippocampus shrinks, your memory is compromised. So and that's
8:45
Speaker 3: why they get why people get misdiagnosed with dementia because
8:48
Speaker 3: through the trauma process, if your hypcamp hippocampus shrinks, your
8:55
Speaker 3: memories is compromised. Right, So we need to understand this,
9:01
Speaker 3: and we need to have empathy and compassion and understanding
9:04
Speaker 3: for people who are experiencing trauma and not just overlook
9:10
Speaker 3: it with a box ticking exercise and do these human
9:14
Speaker 3: beings a massive disservice.
9:16
Speaker 1: You know that. I interviewed a professor John Reid Right,
9:22
Speaker 1: who is very critical of psych He actually said to
9:25
Speaker 1: me that psychiatry is the closest part of medicine to
9:32
Speaker 1: psycho bubble. Right. He talks about the area that he
9:35
Speaker 1: specializes in is schizophrenia, and he said there are five
9:42
Speaker 1: different whether it's conditions or our behaviors or I can't
9:48
Speaker 1: remember the correct terminology. But there's five different and you
9:51
Speaker 1: need to pick tick two of five. But you could
9:54
Speaker 1: have two and I could have two completely different ones.
9:58
Speaker 1: We have no over whatsoever. Yet we are both called
10:03
Speaker 1: set schizophrenic can put on the same medications, right, which
10:06
Speaker 1: is just complete and utter horseshit.
10:09
Speaker 3: Totally, totally. I see a lot of guys in the
10:14
Speaker 3: military with PDSD from special forces, and the amount of
10:19
Speaker 3: guys that are put on to any depressants and any
10:22
Speaker 3: psychotics is terrifying because they don't know what to deal with.
10:26
Speaker 2: It or how to deal with it.
10:28
Speaker 3: So the first thing we do is very very safely
10:31
Speaker 3: get them off that and stabilize their brains so that
10:34
Speaker 3: they can then move through the trauma.
10:36
Speaker 2: Right.
10:37
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I think it's important for people to Oh sorry,
10:40
Speaker 1: when I was talking about John Read he said to
10:43
Speaker 1: me that, so they've done big skill server. He's a researcher,
10:47
Speaker 1: and in his research, only about twenty five percent of
10:53
Speaker 1: mental health professionals ever ask a patient if they've had
10:59
Speaker 1: adverse childhood experiences or a history of trauma, which to
11:04
Speaker 1: me is absolutely fucking bonkers. Right, It's way worse than
11:10
Speaker 1: going to the doctor. And the doctor not asking about
11:12
Speaker 1: your medical history, your family history, and that's the first
11:15
Speaker 1: thing that they do, right, to try and understand whether
11:19
Speaker 1: genetics in it and those sorts of things. But the
11:22
Speaker 1: fact that adverse childhood experiences fundamentally changed the briand change
11:28
Speaker 1: the nervous system, change how we process things, and and
11:30
Speaker 1: trauma does it to a greater extent. I mean, it
11:34
Speaker 1: is professional negligence to not ask her take it into account.
11:40
Speaker 3: Right, absolutely, It's the first question we ask in our clinic,
11:44
Speaker 3: the number one question, you know. I had a woman
11:48
Speaker 3: in her thirties who was severely depressed, had multiple attempts
11:53
Speaker 3: of suicide.
11:55
Speaker 2: She came into my clinic.
11:56
Speaker 3: We did, you know, all the assessments I did the
11:59
Speaker 3: brain mapping, said, you're not depressed, my love, youre traumatized,
12:02
Speaker 3: and let's have a discussion about your childhood. Let's let's
12:06
Speaker 3: talk about that and explore that. She said, no one's
12:10
Speaker 3: ever talked to me about my childhood. She'd been in
12:12
Speaker 3: and out of psychiatry hospitals since she was nineteen, right
12:17
Speaker 3: from the moment her father came back into her world. Bang,
12:20
Speaker 3: that's when everything unraveled. At the age of thirty, I
12:25
Speaker 3: got my hands on her. We did a lot of treatment.
12:28
Speaker 3: I did a lot of treatment, and then she went
12:30
Speaker 3: in and did some EMDR with my mum.
12:34
Speaker 2: I SSS two very significant events, completely different human being,
12:39
Speaker 2: no depressants, no longer depressed. We just had to clear
12:44
Speaker 2: some of the issues from her childhood.
12:46
Speaker 3: Now doctor Bessel vander Kolt talks about body.
12:50
Speaker 1: He keeps the score right.
12:52
Speaker 3: That's how That's what I based my entire practice and
12:55
Speaker 3: work off with trauma.
12:58
Speaker 2: It's sitting in our system.
13:00
Speaker 3: We just got to do the deep dive, figure out
13:02
Speaker 3: where it is, where it sits, how it is coming
13:05
Speaker 3: up to the surface, and work with that.
13:08
Speaker 1: So let's tick again a couple of steps back. You
13:12
Speaker 1: were talking about q EEG, QEG, all of these sorts
13:16
Speaker 1: of Let's give our listeners a little bit of an
13:18
Speaker 1: understanding of what they are. So take us through the
13:24
Speaker 1: different measurement tools that you may use and what they
13:28
Speaker 1: actually show you you've already talked about. Then you can
13:31
Speaker 1: compare it to databases, to them to see what this
13:35
Speaker 1: pattern looks like. But just kind of talk us through it.
13:38
Speaker 1: What happens when you come in, what do you stick
13:41
Speaker 1: on the head, what does it show you Okay.
13:44
Speaker 2: So patient will come in. We do the deep dive
13:48
Speaker 2: into their background and their history.
13:50
Speaker 3: We then pop it like a cap so it looks like,
13:52
Speaker 3: you know, we joke with kids at their surf lifesaver,
13:55
Speaker 3: So they've got a cap on their head and they're
13:56
Speaker 3: nineteen electrodes. Right, we fill it all with gel. Start
14:00
Speaker 3: having a look at the wiggly lines on my screen.
14:03
Speaker 3: Now we work with five different brain waves. We've got
14:07
Speaker 3: delta deep sleep data beautiful creative, also an ram sleep.
14:11
Speaker 2: We've got Alpha, that's the rhythm.
14:13
Speaker 3: That we that I liken to when you're at the
14:16
Speaker 3: pub and you're having a few drinks and everything's in
14:18
Speaker 3: the flow and everything's so nice, right, that'sn't chill. And
14:22
Speaker 3: then we've got beta, which is what you're creating right
14:24
Speaker 3: now because you're able to sit and concentrate, throw your
14:27
Speaker 3: brain into second gear and learn. And then we have gamma,
14:31
Speaker 3: and gamma is the Aha moment rhythm that Einstein used
14:35
Speaker 3: to create.
14:37
Speaker 1: The neurobiology of the Aha moment. Right, love it? Yeah,
14:41
Speaker 1: but sorry to interrupt. Explain the people the difference between
14:46
Speaker 1: low beta and high beta.
14:49
Speaker 3: Okay, so low beta is like an SMR thirteen to
14:53
Speaker 3: fifteen hurt rhythm.
14:54
Speaker 2: Right, it's a stabilizing rhythm.
14:56
Speaker 3: So what we refer to in my world as a
14:58
Speaker 3: stabilizing rhythm, it's the rhythm that we use to stabilize
15:02
Speaker 3: the brain. So if the brain is creating too much beta,
15:04
Speaker 3: which is a slow wave ADHD inattentive profile, it's we
15:09
Speaker 3: use that to stabilize the brain. So it's a very
15:12
Speaker 3: present rhythm. Then you've got beta one and beta two.
15:16
Speaker 3: Beta two is more like fifteen to says eighteen hurts,
15:23
Speaker 3: and then you've got eighteen to twenty five and then
15:25
Speaker 3: twenty five pluses like your gammas up to forty four hertz,
15:28
Speaker 3: So you've just got different states of beta.
15:32
Speaker 2: The beta rhythms that I work mostly in.
15:35
Speaker 3: There is the SMR, which is what did I say,
15:38
Speaker 3: fifteen to thirteen to fifteen hertz, So it's so beautiful.
15:45
Speaker 1: Is it true that when somebody's stressed, they're in higher
15:49
Speaker 1: levels of beata and panic anxiety is very high.
15:52
Speaker 2: Beta, So yes, correct.
15:54
Speaker 3: So when you're looking at a hyperally aroused system, if
15:57
Speaker 3: I'm seeing beta at T five and TC, which is
16:00
Speaker 3: the part of the brain that is closely associated with
16:03
Speaker 3: associated with our amigdala that is a hyper aroused system.
16:08
Speaker 2: It is in fit or flight.
16:10
Speaker 3: That would then tell me I need to work with
16:12
Speaker 3: the amygdala and show this brain how to chill and
16:16
Speaker 3: relax because they're not creating that nice alphorithm of relaxation.
16:22
Speaker 1: And so so that's an EEG cap. Do you know
16:25
Speaker 1: how how deep do they penetrate into the Brian? Are
16:28
Speaker 1: the measurement deep?
16:30
Speaker 3: The neurostimulation that we do penetrates quite deeply.
16:35
Speaker 1: Right, Yeah? You know egs quick pretty close to the surface,
16:38
Speaker 1: isn't it. But it picks up lots of Brian activity.
16:42
Speaker 1: And what's the difference between EG E G and Q EG.
16:47
Speaker 2: Well, the Q.
16:48
Speaker 3: Part is the qualitative where it's all put together and
16:50
Speaker 3: I've assessed at all and we've now got all the
16:52
Speaker 3: pretty maps.
16:53
Speaker 1: Cool, okay, So you're doing an assessment any other assessment
16:58
Speaker 1: tools that you use other.
16:59
Speaker 3: Than event related potentials or ERPs. Now, an ERP is
17:06
Speaker 3: looking at how your brain processes information from a visual
17:09
Speaker 3: perspective through your eyes, and then we do an auditory assessment,
17:13
Speaker 3: so we're understanding how the brain's processing what you're hearing.
17:17
Speaker 3: So they're really vital tools because I can see in
17:21
Speaker 3: nineteen channels of the brain, how every spot on your
17:25
Speaker 3: head is processing information that you're receiving two different ways.
17:29
Speaker 3: So I'm looking to see if we've got a healthy
17:31
Speaker 3: P three hundred.
17:33
Speaker 2: Now, a healthy P.
17:34
Speaker 3: Three hundred means your brain is processing within three hundred milliseconds,
17:40
Speaker 3: and the research states for a healthy processing speed where
17:43
Speaker 3: after three hundred milliseconds, So I can see if we've
17:47
Speaker 3: got a healthy processing speed. A lot of the time
17:49
Speaker 3: with trauba, you might see a P one fifty, which
17:52
Speaker 3: is way too fast because you're hypervigilant, right two.
17:57
Speaker 1: Sorry, do you see slower in dementia?
18:01
Speaker 3: Yeah, so then we would see latency, which is slowing. Right,
18:06
Speaker 3: So the brain is processing, it's sap five hundred, P
18:09
Speaker 3: six hundred, P seven hundred, P eight hundred. So what
18:12
Speaker 3: we then need to do is target and understand which
18:15
Speaker 3: regions of the brain of processing really slowly, and then
18:19
Speaker 3: we look and then we target those parts of the
18:21
Speaker 3: brain and we show the brain how to speed up.
18:24
Speaker 3: So you know, when I'm targeting these regions of the brain,
18:28
Speaker 3: I'm not doing anything to the brain that the brain
18:30
Speaker 3: doesn't naturally already do. I'm just showing the brain with
18:33
Speaker 3: the stabilizing rhythms. If that's what I'm using how to
18:36
Speaker 3: work in a really efficient manner. So you know the brain,
18:40
Speaker 3: our brain ll create signed brain waves. I'm then putting
18:43
Speaker 3: a sign brain wave over the dysregulated sign brain waves.
18:47
Speaker 3: And the way our brains function is the brain mimics
18:51
Speaker 3: what I'm asking it to do. That is why we
18:53
Speaker 3: are so successful at creating healthy change that is drug free.
19:00
Speaker 1: That's interesting, But before we get into all the stimulation,
19:06
Speaker 1: just finish off the picture of when someone comes in.
19:10
Speaker 1: So you're looking at their whole history, particularly psychological history,
19:16
Speaker 1: then doing some measurements of the brand. You're giving them
19:20
Speaker 1: visual stimuli, auditory stimuli, seeing how there being is actually processing,
19:25
Speaker 1: and then you're putting that information into a big database
19:29
Speaker 1: of stuff that goes this pattern looks like such and
19:33
Speaker 1: such an issue or condition or whatever, anything else from
19:38
Speaker 1: an assessment perspective. Before you then start to look at treatments.
19:44
Speaker 3: Yeah, I need to understand if the patient's ever had
19:46
Speaker 3: a heart attack before, because if they have, then I
19:49
Speaker 3: can't do vague nerve stimulation with them as well.
19:52
Speaker 2: So that is just.
19:55
Speaker 3: A game change. You're doing a lot of the vagus
19:57
Speaker 3: nerve work with everybody. I just find like vegas nerve
20:01
Speaker 3: stimulation on top of the neurostimulation protocols is just like
20:06
Speaker 3: neurosteam on steroids essentially, because once you get the gut,
20:10
Speaker 3: the brain, the vagus nerve like especially nice, nice healthy
20:15
Speaker 3: tone on the vagus nerve that has accessed every organ
20:18
Speaker 3: of the body. It's just it's like watching magic happen.
20:23
Speaker 1: Or you do you look at their heart rate variability?
20:27
Speaker 1: Do you measure it in clinic? Or if they have
20:30
Speaker 1: an Apple watch or a garment or an ur ring
20:32
Speaker 1: or a whoop barn? Would you look at that historical data?
20:37
Speaker 2: No, I don't need to.
20:39
Speaker 3: I mean, I've got patients that love doing that, and
20:42
Speaker 3: we do do that for individuals who are really invested
20:45
Speaker 3: in all of that stuff. But honestly, the ECG that
20:49
Speaker 3: we do, when I'm looking at how the brain and
20:51
Speaker 3: the hard are connected, I can see very clearly if
20:53
Speaker 3: they've got a trauma profile or a depressed profile.
20:56
Speaker 1: Right, I get it. So what's happening So so just
21:00
Speaker 1: so the people understand, is that when you're getting them
21:05
Speaker 1: to do some sort of a task or focusing on something,
21:07
Speaker 1: not only you're seeing how their brain is reacting, but
21:10
Speaker 1: you're also seeing how their sympathetic nervous system is reacting,
21:13
Speaker 1: whether they're in sympathetic dominance or parasympathetic, through the vegus nerve.
21:18
Speaker 1: And the most accurate way to measure that is through
21:21
Speaker 1: the chest strap. More accurate than risk stuff. Okay, so
21:25
Speaker 1: you're getting you're getting that combined rhythm and and very interesting.
21:30
Speaker 1: I was talking to somebody. Oh, I'll tell you who
21:33
Speaker 1: it was talking to, right here, doctor Kevin Tracy. I
21:38
Speaker 1: interviewed him. Written a book on the great nerve, the
21:42
Speaker 1: Vegus nerve. He's an expert and he's been he's been
21:46
Speaker 1: looking at vegas nerve stuff for decades. Right, But he
21:51
Speaker 1: told me that there are shapes. I can't remember the
21:54
Speaker 1: number of neurons in the heart that actually are saying
22:00
Speaker 1: signals back up to the brain. So those neurons in
22:03
Speaker 1: the heart are receiving sensory information from from all of
22:08
Speaker 1: your different senses, and the heart is actually signaling the brain.
22:13
Speaker 1: And I had always just assumed that sensory neurons were
22:17
Speaker 1: basically straight to the brain. The brain makes decisions and
22:20
Speaker 1: it influences the heart through borrow reflex and all of that.
22:24
Speaker 1: But he says, Actually it can go the other way
22:26
Speaker 1: as well, right, doesn't, Yeah, it does? And and and
22:31
Speaker 1: then particularly relevant to people who've had trauma. You know,
22:37
Speaker 1: the whole idea of a broken heart. Geez, there's some
22:39
Speaker 1: shit in.
22:40
Speaker 2: That, right, people die from a broken heart.
22:42
Speaker 1: Yeah, but but there's a bit more science to just
22:47
Speaker 1: you know, that whole broken heart stuff. Okay, So that
22:51
Speaker 1: gives us a really good picture in terms of the
22:54
Speaker 1: assessment protocol. So then in terms of an invention ease,
23:03
Speaker 1: all are your interventions? Are you using stimulation or trans
23:08
Speaker 1: magnetic stimulation or whatever?
23:12
Speaker 3: No, no, So what we're doing is a little bit
23:14
Speaker 3: more sophisticated than that. It's transcranial alternating current stimulation or
23:19
Speaker 3: transcranial direct current stimulation, so direct current being going in
23:24
Speaker 3: from A to B, so it just goes in one way,
23:27
Speaker 3: it goes.
23:27
Speaker 2: Out in and out.
23:28
Speaker 3: Alternating current stimulation is two electrodes and it's bumping from
23:33
Speaker 3: side to side in a signed brain wave.
23:36
Speaker 1: Cool, okay.
23:37
Speaker 2: And then we've got.
23:38
Speaker 3: Pulse electro magnetic field energy, which has been around for forever.
23:44
Speaker 3: And then I use photomodulation, so light therapy, and then
23:48
Speaker 3: transcranial or vegas nerve stimulation where you clip the little
23:55
Speaker 3: clip onto your left tregus and that runs at thirty
23:58
Speaker 3: hertz rhythms direct lead down your vagus nerve and that
24:02
Speaker 3: creates a vagual tone.
24:06
Speaker 4: So what when would you use the direct trunscreenial simulation
24:14
Speaker 4: and when would you use the alternating one?
24:17
Speaker 3: Okay, so I would use DC as we call it,
24:22
Speaker 3: dealing with people with really severe drug resistant depression or
24:28
Speaker 3: really any form of depression.
24:29
Speaker 1: Really.
24:31
Speaker 3: So if we take it back a step, my mentor
24:36
Speaker 3: guy that supervises me, doctor Nicholas Dogris. He's based in
24:40
Speaker 3: Santa Barbara in the US. He created all of this technology.
24:46
Speaker 3: He runs a program called shadow Proof in Florida at
24:50
Speaker 3: FG Health to rehab facility, and so they work with
24:55
Speaker 3: a lot of veterans, first responders, a lot of opioid addicts,
25:01
Speaker 3: and he's created all of the protocols that we use
25:05
Speaker 3: here in Australia or around the world essentially, and so
25:09
Speaker 3: through his work at FhG Health, we've essentially adopted a
25:14
Speaker 3: lot of the protocols that he uses. So the direct
25:16
Speaker 3: current stimulation I use a lot with drug addicts. I
25:22
Speaker 3: use it a lot with depression. They're the main sort
25:27
Speaker 3: of yeah, even O C D sometimes.
25:31
Speaker 1: And what and what does that do from a functional perspective.
25:36
Speaker 3: So, what it's doing is you're so you're you're understanding
25:41
Speaker 3: which part of the brain is.
25:44
Speaker 2: Dysregulated.
25:45
Speaker 3: So with transcrenal direct current stimulation, the standard protocol is.
25:51
Speaker 2: To go from F three to FP two, So you're
25:54
Speaker 2: working the.
25:54
Speaker 3: Dorsal prefrontal part of the brain or the frontal lobe
25:59
Speaker 3: I should use, yeah, simpler terms. And so what that's
26:02
Speaker 3: doing is stimulating the front part of the brain and
26:05
Speaker 3: then we put the coils over the top with an
26:08
Speaker 3: SMR happy rhythm and it just readjusts the essentially the
26:14
Speaker 3: biochemistry and the brain, right, so that things start to
26:19
Speaker 3: communicate more efficiently.
26:20
Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, Because one of the things that you see
26:24
Speaker 1: in depression or in some of these condition particularly the
26:27
Speaker 1: major depression, is the lack of functional connectivity. They changed
26:33
Speaker 1: functional connectivity in the stuff that's coming out. Okay, so pritically,
26:39
Speaker 1: it's like essentially taking somebody who has been in a
26:43
Speaker 1: car crash and is struggling to walk and reteaching them
26:47
Speaker 1: how to walk.
26:48
Speaker 3: Essentially eventually, yes, and so direct current stimulation is very
26:54
Speaker 3: it's similar, but it's not the same to ect right
26:57
Speaker 3: ect at eight hundred million energy, I work to a
27:01
Speaker 3: maximum of two point five.
27:03
Speaker 2: Millions of energy.
27:04
Speaker 1: Right differ is a.
27:06
Speaker 2: Hard reset on the brain. DZ direct current.
27:10
Speaker 3: It's the same principle because it goes in one end
27:13
Speaker 3: and out the other, but it's so gentle on the
27:15
Speaker 3: brain that that the brain responds so beautifully to it.
27:20
Speaker 1: Okay, okay, So you're giving a little nodge rather than
27:22
Speaker 1: heading it with the sledge.
27:24
Speaker 3: Hummer, which is TMS. TMS is like taking a sledge
27:27
Speaker 3: chamber to the brain. And it's just one size fits all.
27:31
Speaker 1: Okay, And so I long, is there a standard amount
27:38
Speaker 1: of time that doing that, like doing a session will
27:44
Speaker 1: will change the briand like is there a typical amount
27:47
Speaker 1: of sessions and frequency that people need to come in
27:50
Speaker 1: with or is it very from individual to individual.
27:53
Speaker 2: It's the million dollar question. It's so individual.
27:57
Speaker 3: Look, I've got a fellow that I'm working with in
27:59
Speaker 3: Melbourne moment who has had a stroke and his brain
28:05
Speaker 3: is so so compromised that I can't go above zero
28:10
Speaker 3: point two milliamps. I think we got him up to
28:12
Speaker 3: zero point three yesterday, but it was just so intense
28:15
Speaker 3: on his scalp. And then he messaged me last night
28:18
Speaker 3: and he said, for the first time in two years,
28:21
Speaker 3: after three sessions of very low energy, he said, he
28:24
Speaker 3: finally has had glimpses of how his brain used to function. Now,
28:29
Speaker 3: this is a highly intelligent, capable young man who had
28:33
Speaker 3: a stroke as a result of having some medication that
28:37
Speaker 3: a doctor prescribed shouldn't probably have prescribed. And so that
28:43
Speaker 3: took him three sessions. And I wasn't even a clinical
28:46
Speaker 3: levels of treatment. You know, that was a point two
28:49
Speaker 3: and point three of a milliamp, which is absolutely nothing.
28:53
Speaker 3: But that doesn't matter. Some children report getting a treatment
28:57
Speaker 3: response after one session. I've seen times where patients have
29:00
Speaker 3: had to have thirty sessions before the brain has just
29:03
Speaker 3: let down and gone, oh, this is what you want
29:05
Speaker 3: me to do now, okay, fine, I'll get on with it.
29:08
Speaker 1: And so other than so, if you check people who've
29:12
Speaker 1: had sort of trauma or things that have severely impacted
29:16
Speaker 1: the brand. So that's one use kiss depression, another use
29:20
Speaker 1: kiss What about ADHD? Right, this is the biggest expanding
29:28
Speaker 1: diagnosis this side of the Mississippi.
29:34
Speaker 3: It's so sad when I see these beautiful little children
29:37
Speaker 3: coming in and they're all just like dulled out in
29:40
Speaker 3: ADHD meds. This works so unbelievably well, and it's so
29:44
Speaker 3: efficient for dealing with ADHD either hyperactive or inattentive or
29:49
Speaker 3: in alpha profile ADHD. All we're doing is showing the
29:52
Speaker 3: brain how to regulate so that it doesn't run too
29:55
Speaker 3: slowly with an inattentive ADHD, or it's not running too
29:59
Speaker 3: quickly for a high proactive type ADHD. And we just
30:03
Speaker 3: stay use stabilizing rhythms. Now, I've seen men on ADHD
30:07
Speaker 3: medication they're entire and women on ADHD medication their entire
30:10
Speaker 3: life have twenty sessions of a stabilizing rhythm and no
30:14
Speaker 3: longer need their ADHD meds.
30:16
Speaker 1: Ah wow, And I presume from what you're saying that
30:22
Speaker 1: there is a different profile from the inattentive to the hyperactive, right,
30:27
Speaker 1: because they're opposite ends of the skill totally. And so
30:31
Speaker 1: can you can you, like, within one measurement session, can
30:36
Speaker 1: you kind of tell what that is? And can you
30:38
Speaker 1: also go, actually, you probably don't have ADHD. I mean
30:42
Speaker 1: Martin Iams, when I interviewed him, he said the research
30:45
Speaker 1: that he's done, he said, five days of sleep deprivation,
30:49
Speaker 1: your bream will look like an ADHD brand totally. There's
30:52
Speaker 1: so many kids who are out there who are sleep
30:54
Speaker 1: deprived plus not doing physical activity and eating a sh diet.
31:00
Speaker 1: And we know that ultra processed food consumption increases common
31:05
Speaker 1: mental health to sort of resk by whopping fifty three percent.
31:08
Speaker 1: But for me, you put that tri factor in of
31:11
Speaker 1: personally like a physical activity and a poor diet man,
31:16
Speaker 1: how's the brain supposed to bloody function properly?
31:20
Speaker 2: Diet, rest, and exercise.
31:21
Speaker 3: Really, isn't it what Dogris talks about all the time
31:26
Speaker 3: in training in the US, Diet, rest, exercise. If you
31:30
Speaker 3: don't have those three down pat it's it's not great.
31:35
Speaker 2: Sleep is just one one.
31:39
Speaker 3: It's just one of the most important parts of mental
31:43
Speaker 3: health is sleep and getting deep delta restorative rhythms.
31:48
Speaker 2: Look, I can. I can.
31:49
Speaker 3: When I can have someone plugged in and doing an
31:53
Speaker 3: EEG within two minutes, if they've got an ADHD hyperactive profile,
31:58
Speaker 3: I'll be able to see it because amount of beta
32:00
Speaker 3: spindling in their frontal lobe, like right at the front
32:03
Speaker 3: part of the brain. It's like super duper really fast rhythms.
32:06
Speaker 3: I'll be like, whoa, we got a brain that's like ready,
32:10
Speaker 3: like rip and raw, and like I've got to show
32:12
Speaker 3: this beautiful Ferrari brain how to Poppy's breaks on.
32:15
Speaker 2: You know all it is.
32:17
Speaker 3: And every single child that comes in with ADHD or autism,
32:22
Speaker 3: they are so intelligent.
32:27
Speaker 2: Their brains are just letting them down. And it could
32:30
Speaker 2: be from a difficult birth.
32:32
Speaker 3: It could be you know, the lack of oxygen at
32:35
Speaker 3: birth where they you know, the brain's been compromised.
32:38
Speaker 2: It could be hereditary. It can be a number of
32:40
Speaker 2: different things, but it's it could be a.
32:43
Speaker 3: New profile and then they get misdiagnosed with ADHD like
32:47
Speaker 3: I can fight start five five times in the DSM
32:50
Speaker 3: where a new profile in the brain gets misdiagnosed as ADHD.
32:54
Speaker 3: And then we're giving these children ADHD meds in the morning,
32:57
Speaker 3: so they're on uppers in the morning. You put it
33:00
Speaker 3: child on downers at night. They're not getting into deep
33:02
Speaker 3: delta sleep. Going to set them up for a dementia
33:07
Speaker 3: type profile later on in life because they're so deficient
33:10
Speaker 3: in getting healthy, restorative rhythms of sleep at night.
33:13
Speaker 2: Recipe for disaster.
33:15
Speaker 1: You mess with sleep at your peril. I always say
33:18
Speaker 1: to people, if you have pretty poor sleep, and you're
33:22
Speaker 1: not exercising, and you're eating the standard Australian diet which
33:27
Speaker 1: is pretty shit. Good luck with your mental health because
33:30
Speaker 1: you need it. And it's not I don't say that
33:32
Speaker 1: from a judgment perspective, it's just from a few physiology
33:36
Speaker 1: perspective like that. Brian cannot function well without those things,
33:41
Speaker 1: and unfortunately our modern lifestyles are are very anti Brian.
33:49
Speaker 3: Bizarre, isn't it. I say this to parents all the time.
33:52
Speaker 3: Would you buy a vehicle and not have it serviced?
33:55
Speaker 1: I know? Or would you would you back are and
34:01
Speaker 1: just drive it in first and second gear like a
34:04
Speaker 1: super high rayvs? All the time you look at a
34:07
Speaker 1: Formula one car that there are high performance machines, but
34:11
Speaker 1: the engine doesn't last very long at all. Right, it's
34:14
Speaker 1: lasting for half a dozen races and then because it's
34:18
Speaker 1: running se freak and hot, right, and people are running
34:22
Speaker 1: their brilliant so bloody hot and not not servicing them
34:26
Speaker 1: to your point, and it's that that stuff is the other.
34:31
Speaker 3: Thing I say to parents is, especially with kids with
34:34
Speaker 3: autism and emotional dysregulation, when we build a house, are
34:39
Speaker 3: we going to put the roof on first? Because there's
34:42
Speaker 3: no foundation to hold the roof up. So what we
34:45
Speaker 3: do is we build the foundation. We connect all the
34:48
Speaker 3: neural networks. We get the brain communicating the way it should,
34:52
Speaker 3: and then you start with ots, you start with speech,
34:55
Speaker 3: you start with all the other complimentary thing and you
34:58
Speaker 3: watch that child take off.
35:00
Speaker 1: So you've mentioned autism a couple of times. So when
35:04
Speaker 1: you measure the brain of someone on autism spectrum disorder,
35:08
Speaker 1: and it is a whole spectrum now, and do you
35:12
Speaker 1: see clear biological signatures?
35:16
Speaker 2: Yeah, I will see a really strong new rhythm.
35:19
Speaker 1: So what's you sorry you said? You said just a
35:21
Speaker 1: couple of sentiment to ask you.
35:23
Speaker 3: New new is just mu It's it's in the sensory
35:27
Speaker 3: motor cortex at C three C four. You can see
35:29
Speaker 3: it F three, F four, and you can see it
35:31
Speaker 3: P three, P four, But a sensory essentially, it's in
35:34
Speaker 3: the sensory rhythm. It's in the sensory motor cortex. So
35:38
Speaker 3: when this part of our brain at C three C
35:40
Speaker 3: four is going off and working really hard, all the
35:43
Speaker 3: energies there frontal low poon't switch on. So it's a
35:46
Speaker 3: wicket rhythm that is created. Now I see that in
35:49
Speaker 3: seventy percent of children with autism, fifty percent of children
35:53
Speaker 3: with ADHD create new, fifty percent of people with an
35:57
Speaker 3: effective disorder create new, and eighteen percent of the healthy
36:02
Speaker 3: normal population created Now when we're dealing with an effective disorder,
36:07
Speaker 3: So someone with trauma, for example, if you've got if
36:13
Speaker 3: you've experienced a horrific trauma, the brain will create MEW.
36:18
Speaker 3: It's done as a protective mechanism to protect the person
36:22
Speaker 3: from being further traumatized because it's a disassociative rhythm in
36:27
Speaker 3: the alpha band range.
36:30
Speaker 1: Gotcha, Okay? Interesting? And so do you find that you're
36:36
Speaker 1: getting results? It would it be the CEM With artistic people,
36:40
Speaker 1: it's you dor partterns of stimulation with them and support
36:45
Speaker 1: of you know, helping them, giving them a dice around
36:49
Speaker 1: building the fundations correctly, which by the way, can be
36:52
Speaker 1: very difficult in artistic children, particularly around diet, because they
36:56
Speaker 1: tend to be super duper fussy around diet as well.
37:01
Speaker 3: So when you talk about that I had, I've had
37:04
Speaker 3: this one particular child in Ginderbyne who you know, we're
37:08
Speaker 3: a ski town, right, it's all in winter. This child
37:12
Speaker 3: was so unbelievably dysregulated, could never attend a school, would
37:17
Speaker 3: never wear shoes, would never wear a jumper, like not ideal,
37:22
Speaker 3: living in the snow. I started working with this, this
37:27
Speaker 3: gorgeous child like years ago.
37:29
Speaker 2: He's now the school captain of year six.
37:32
Speaker 3: Now it's all full time, like on the debating team,
37:37
Speaker 3: like kicking goals. But had such a horrific start to
37:41
Speaker 3: life in trauma, in and around the school environment that
37:45
Speaker 3: he could never go back to attend a school. So,
37:47
Speaker 3: you know, we just we just worked with that part
37:50
Speaker 3: of the brain. We've got a protocol that we have
37:52
Speaker 3: dubbed the mew buster. So we're essentially asking the brain
37:56
Speaker 3: to stop creating new It's like, you know, you grab
37:58
Speaker 3: the brain, You're like, wait, knock it off. This is
38:00
Speaker 3: not what I want you to do. This is what
38:01
Speaker 3: I want you to do. And so we are asking
38:04
Speaker 3: the brain to reduce that frontal lobe disengagement. And we're
38:08
Speaker 3: engaging the frontal lobe so that children are no longer disregulated.
38:13
Speaker 3: If I'm doing an EEG and I can see you
38:15
Speaker 3: in the brain, I'll say to the kid, wiggle your fingers.
38:18
Speaker 3: Movement attenuates your.
38:22
Speaker 1: Interest that because movement forces the multi cortex of the
38:30
Speaker 1: frontal lobes to come online.
38:32
Speaker 2: Correct.
38:33
Speaker 3: And so when we're hearing at school from teachers that
38:36
Speaker 3: these naughty children won't sit still, it breaks my heart
38:41
Speaker 3: because these children aren't naughty, you subspect, right, it's an
38:46
Speaker 3: uncomfortable rhythm.
38:47
Speaker 2: They're trying to get out of their bloody brains.
38:50
Speaker 1: Well, you look at you look at Finland, which is
38:52
Speaker 1: the best education system in the world. It also has
38:57
Speaker 1: the highest amount of physical activity breaks in the world.
39:01
Speaker 1: And we've just been bringing kids in and especially young boys,
39:06
Speaker 1: and expecting them to sit on our arses all day
39:10
Speaker 1: long and pay attention. It's like you look at you
39:16
Speaker 1: look at any young animal, right, they are just balls
39:22
Speaker 1: of movement all the time. Right, All young animals are
39:26
Speaker 1: just are just wrestling, running around, just doing shit and
39:30
Speaker 1: end if all over a collapse. But we're trying to
39:33
Speaker 1: get them to sit down and focus without any physic activity.
39:37
Speaker 1: It's completely bonkers, right, It's cruel.
39:40
Speaker 2: I really think it's cruel.
39:41
Speaker 3: I had a situation with my son's school where they
39:44
Speaker 3: were telling me, of all people, that my child needed
39:48
Speaker 3: to go and have an assessment, and I was like, oh, okay,
39:53
Speaker 3: let's have a chat about this. What's your qualification to
39:55
Speaker 3: tell me that my child needs to go see a pediatrician.
39:58
Speaker 3: Have you do you want understand the psychophysiology of his brain?
40:02
Speaker 3: And the teachers are like, no, I said, then don't
40:05
Speaker 3: come to me and tell me my child needs an assessment.
40:08
Speaker 3: You teachers need to go and learn how my child learns.
40:12
Speaker 3: I don't work for you, You work for me, right, so
40:16
Speaker 3: figure out how he learns. Come and tell me and
40:19
Speaker 3: start teaching. So I just won't put up with that behavior.
40:23
Speaker 1: It's really quite interesting because it tends to be teachers
40:29
Speaker 1: are the initial driver of kids getting assessed, and then
40:34
Speaker 1: they get assessed within school psychology and psychologists like, I'm
40:40
Speaker 1: not going to I'm not going to blanket criticize psychologists,
40:43
Speaker 1: Like some brilliant psychologists need do brilliant work, but they
40:47
Speaker 1: look at everything through the lens of condition or a diagnosis.
40:54
Speaker 1: Right when you're a hummer, everything looks like a nil.
41:00
Speaker 1: I actually got slammed on social media because I highlighted
41:05
Speaker 1: that one of the biggest predictors of a kid getting
41:10
Speaker 1: a diagnosis of ADHD is actually their date of birth.
41:17
Speaker 1: The kids who are born early in the year are
41:22
Speaker 1: thirty eight percent more likely on average, And this is
41:27
Speaker 1: this is a systematic review and meta analysis of a
41:30
Speaker 1: number of different studies, and it ruins somewhere between twenty
41:32
Speaker 1: and seventy percent in the different studies, but on average
41:35
Speaker 1: thirty eight percent more likely to get a diagnosis of
41:38
Speaker 1: ADHD than a kid who's born later in the year.
41:42
Speaker 1: So little Johnny or Jennifer, maybe they don't have the idiotcy.
41:46
Speaker 1: Maybe they're just six months down the developmental timeline, and
41:51
Speaker 1: if you give them that six months, they actually catch up.
41:55
Speaker 1: But the teachers are going, they're inattentive, they got an issue,
41:59
Speaker 1: they go to the charge psychologist or they get referred,
42:02
Speaker 1: and then they looked through the prism of diagnosis, not
42:09
Speaker 1: from hey, what are your what's what? What's what's what's
42:14
Speaker 1: your sleep like? What's all of that sort of stuff?
42:17
Speaker 1: It's it is completely and utterly bonkers. And so tell
42:23
Speaker 1: me this, what what do you think the future looks
42:27
Speaker 1: like in this whole area that you're in.
42:30
Speaker 3: Well, I just I think in eg the assessment process
42:35
Speaker 3: needs to be in every single school. It needs to
42:37
Speaker 3: be in every single juvenile detention center, needs to be
42:40
Speaker 3: in every single prison, it needs to be in every
42:43
Speaker 3: psychiatric clinic and hospital.
42:47
Speaker 2: Because the longer we stop sorry.
42:50
Speaker 3: The longer that we do not do this deep dive
42:53
Speaker 3: and understand someone's brain function, the longer we are harming people.
42:57
Speaker 3: And I don't say that lightly at all. I see
43:02
Speaker 3: this every single day. People are on the wrong medication.
43:06
Speaker 3: They are They're just seen as a tool to make money, essentially,
43:11
Speaker 3: and I hate that.
43:14
Speaker 2: I mean, my own experience as a child was in
43:17
Speaker 2: with being.
43:18
Speaker 3: Assessed by some expert that my mum found because I
43:21
Speaker 3: had learning problems. I was born hypoxic, right like I
43:26
Speaker 3: also didn't have learning problems. So he, this expert, got
43:30
Speaker 3: me in the room, told my mother and brother to leave. Now,
43:33
Speaker 3: my brother's sixteen months younger than me, asked me to
43:36
Speaker 3: do an exercise. I couldn't do the exercise, but when
43:40
Speaker 3: he brought my mother and my sixteen month younger brother
43:44
Speaker 3: into the room, he explained it differently to my brother
43:48
Speaker 3: and he could do it.
43:49
Speaker 2: Now. I remember that.
43:53
Speaker 1: I'm going to give you sorry.
43:56
Speaker 3: Whether he did that intentionally or not, I don't know,
43:59
Speaker 3: but I was small good enough back then, at a
44:01
Speaker 3: really young age to call bullshit on that. And I'm
44:07
Speaker 3: not saying all experts and specialists do that, but you
44:11
Speaker 3: cannot go off a box ticking exercise alone to understand
44:17
Speaker 3: what is what's going on with people and their system.
44:20
Speaker 2: It's just it's just not right anymore.
44:23
Speaker 1: I'll give you a reasonably similar story. Myla guy Oscar
44:27
Speaker 1: ended up with Cushing's disease, which is a pretty horrible
44:31
Speaker 1: disease with the tumor on the peturitary that hyper secretes
44:35
Speaker 1: cortisol and creass creates a deep, deep depression. Weir a
44:41
Speaker 1: gain and you know, he was a super, super sporty
44:44
Speaker 1: little kid, started putting on We got this big, puffy,
44:48
Speaker 1: fierce and you know, when we got the diagnosis and
44:52
Speaker 1: understood he wanted He said to me, I want to
44:56
Speaker 1: be the first Cushings patient to lose with it before
44:59
Speaker 1: my surgery. So he became quite obsessive around that. He
45:03
Speaker 1: did a lot of exercise anyway, but he became obsessive
45:05
Speaker 1: around his food. I was trying to talk him out
45:08
Speaker 1: of it, but he got very, very stressed, and I
45:10
Speaker 1: realized me and my wife realized he just needs something
45:12
Speaker 1: that he can control here, and so you know, he
45:15
Speaker 1: was reduced his coverage, but it was it wasn't to
45:17
Speaker 1: the point of danger because we're both nutritionists and when
45:20
Speaker 1: we were in the hospital and they weighed them and
45:24
Speaker 1: they saw that he'd lost we it. They then the
45:27
Speaker 1: dietitian said, I think he might have an eating disorder.
45:32
Speaker 1: But we and we were like fucking hell. And and
45:35
Speaker 1: you know what, the minute that his and his that
45:41
Speaker 1: he where he went through the surgery and they took
45:44
Speaker 1: it out and when he woke up and he asked
45:47
Speaker 1: for seconds. Right, But we were asking for psychological help
45:52
Speaker 1: because that's the biggest thing that Cushing's patients need post surgery.
45:56
Speaker 1: And the only place they could send this to was
45:58
Speaker 1: was a local place that was generally around eating disorders.
46:02
Speaker 1: We were supposed to get psychological support. The psychologist, who
46:06
Speaker 1: was pretty senior, took Oscar into the room, didn't want
46:10
Speaker 1: us in there. And actually when they closed to do
46:12
Speaker 1: it that there was a one way door. It was locked.
46:14
Speaker 1: We started going, fuck, this is wrong. And Oscar had
46:18
Speaker 1: he had he was twelve years old, maybe thirteen. I
46:22
Speaker 1: think he was twelve, No, he was twelve. He had
46:28
Speaker 1: two psychologists with masks and peppering him with questions, right,
46:35
Speaker 1: and he said one day he was just throwing questions
46:38
Speaker 1: out of the other one was just stirring at him.
46:41
Speaker 1: And we came in and the psychologist went, he's definitely
46:45
Speaker 1: got an eating disorder. He has anorexia, and I hit
46:49
Speaker 1: the fucking roof and actually put in a complaint. We
46:54
Speaker 1: eventually got the senior guy came on and gave us
46:59
Speaker 1: an apology around it. But you know what that is
47:02
Speaker 1: on his medical records forever, right, And it was such
47:06
Speaker 1: a bullshit diagnosis. And this is the problem that when
47:11
Speaker 1: you look at somebody through the lens of a diagnosis.
47:16
Speaker 1: And I actually said to the lady, I said, so
47:20
Speaker 1: he's got Cushing's disease. Do you know what Cushing's disease is?
47:23
Speaker 1: And she didn't. I said, so you've done no research
47:27
Speaker 1: on his condition and she was like, well no, and
47:30
Speaker 1: I went, well, it is well known that Cushing disease
47:34
Speaker 1: has obsessive compulsive disorders. Right, you have obsessive compulsive thinking.
47:39
Speaker 1: You have a kid here who was all totally into
47:43
Speaker 1: his sport and then saw himself getting fat and wanted
47:47
Speaker 1: some level of control of that, and you have diagnosed
47:50
Speaker 1: him with an eating sort and said that he's now
47:52
Speaker 1: underwig and then they give us this target weight that
47:55
Speaker 1: actually would have made him fat. And I'm like, you
47:58
Speaker 1: people are completely freaking in bunkers. Oscar has said to me,
48:04
Speaker 1: if I ever have a mood disorder or any I'm
48:09
Speaker 1: not going to a psychologist ever, he said. He said,
48:12
Speaker 1: I will go to Barney and do some breath work
48:14
Speaker 1: because he ward this guy. We did a breath work session.
48:18
Speaker 1: It was a huge breathwork session, and Oscar just just
48:21
Speaker 1: cried for no reason for like twenty minutes. After that
48:26
Speaker 1: was the he could now talk about his cushions disease
48:29
Speaker 1: without tearing up. Before that, anytime he talked about his
48:32
Speaker 1: cushions disease, he would tear up. And that breath work
48:35
Speaker 1: actually did a bit of release. That reminds me, can
48:39
Speaker 1: you just the last kind of question, AMDR, which I
48:43
Speaker 1: think you said your mom does. I have heard yeah,
48:48
Speaker 1: I've heard, like I'm getting lots of reports that I'm
48:52
Speaker 1: hearing about people, particularly if I drauma and do AMDR
48:55
Speaker 1: and go fuck may what a game changer talk as
49:00
Speaker 1: long as their.
49:01
Speaker 3: Brain is in healthy alpha absolute game changer. If the
49:05
Speaker 3: brain is not. If the brain is deficient, so it's
49:09
Speaker 3: doing what we would call alpha blocking at T six,
49:12
Speaker 3: it won't work. And if you've got too much OLF
49:14
Speaker 3: activity at T six as well, it's generally not safe
49:18
Speaker 3: to take the patient to the trauma.
49:21
Speaker 1: But oh so this is the combination of briain stimulation,
49:26
Speaker 1: get it in the right, steer it to then do
49:29
Speaker 1: the therapy, and a kind of a little bit I
49:33
Speaker 1: would draw the analogy of psychedelic therapies. I had Paul
49:39
Speaker 1: Libramitski on who is the Australia's leader in this, and
49:43
Speaker 1: he basically said, it is like a rocket ship for therapy,
49:47
Speaker 1: but you need to know how to steer the rocket.
49:50
Speaker 3: So I've just done a brain scan on a patient
49:53
Speaker 3: who has left to go to Mexico to do some
49:56
Speaker 3: eyeber game. He's got a horrific trauma background has been doing.
50:01
Speaker 2: I have to be careful about what I say.
50:03
Speaker 3: But essentially we've done the pre brain map, he's done
50:08
Speaker 3: a lot of talking therapy. When he gets back, we're
50:11
Speaker 3: going to do the after brain map to see what
50:13
Speaker 3: the I begain and the psychedelics have done for his brain,
50:16
Speaker 3: and then we'll continue on with more talking therapy. But
50:20
Speaker 3: you know, it's just when, like I said, when you
50:25
Speaker 3: put all three of these silos together, psychology, psychiatry and psychophysiology,
50:30
Speaker 3: like the world really shifts a lot for these people.
50:34
Speaker 1: Yeah, when you mix them, so tell us. We'll talk
50:39
Speaker 1: about your practice in a minute. How many people are
50:42
Speaker 1: doing this in Australia.
50:44
Speaker 3: I brought this technology out myself back in twenty nineteen.
50:50
Speaker 2: I don't know. I don't really know of anyone else
50:53
Speaker 2: is doing it as March.
50:57
Speaker 3: I've got a colleague in New Zealand, Elizabeth Harris. Love her,
51:02
Speaker 3: so we work together a little bits. She goes over
51:06
Speaker 3: to the US with me. Actually there is another guy,
51:08
Speaker 3: but he's not doing the neurostem in Canberra.
51:12
Speaker 2: I do keep calling his practice and I'm like, can
51:14
Speaker 2: you please hurry up and start.
51:17
Speaker 3: There's a guy down in Victoria, he's doing neurofeedback.
51:22
Speaker 2: There are so many people that do neurofeedback.
51:25
Speaker 3: Yeah, neurofeedback is a dirty word in this country thanks
51:29
Speaker 3: to the NDIS neurofeedback. I have not done eurofeedback since
51:33
Speaker 3: I was like in my late teens when I first
51:37
Speaker 3: worked in this space. And as much as I love neurofeedback,
51:40
Speaker 3: I can what neurofeedback takes to achieve in twelve months,
51:44
Speaker 3: I can do in three months with neurostimulations. So I
51:46
Speaker 3: would just never bother with neurofeedback ever. Again, what we
51:50
Speaker 3: do is just the gold standard. It is really sophisticated.
51:54
Speaker 3: When I was over in Santa Barbara last year and
51:56
Speaker 3: doctor Dograss is getting so excited. He's like, check how
51:59
Speaker 3: my new neurofeedback program. And I'm like, I'm not doing
52:04
Speaker 3: eurofeedback with anyone.
52:05
Speaker 2: Nick. He's gone, yeah, I know. I said, why are
52:07
Speaker 2: you releasing it?
52:08
Speaker 3: He's like, because there are a lot of die hard
52:09
Speaker 3: neurofeedback fans out there that just love it. And I
52:14
Speaker 3: loved it two decades ago, served a phenomenal.
52:19
Speaker 2: Purpose. But now like we've.
52:21
Speaker 3: Just moved on and we get fa supurior results to
52:24
Speaker 3: what neurofeedback can achieve.
52:27
Speaker 1: So is there any criticism of neurostimulation from psychiatrist, doctors
52:33
Speaker 1: and always people.
52:37
Speaker 3: I mean, if you're getting criticism, it's because they don't
52:41
Speaker 3: understand what it is that we're doing. I've got a
52:44
Speaker 3: few psychiatrists now that i'm working with who are just
52:48
Speaker 3: it's so interested in what we're doing, and I'm getting
52:52
Speaker 3: referrals from them.
52:53
Speaker 2: I've got a guy in Canberra that I work closely with.
52:55
Speaker 3: We're about to start a research trial for TBI for
53:00
Speaker 3: SF like so I sas guys and commandos in and
53:05
Speaker 3: around TVR because DVA doesn't recognize that.
53:07
Speaker 1: So just for the lists, that's traumatic britin injury. So
53:10
Speaker 1: a lot of these guys, obviously our explosions, we're.
53:13
Speaker 2: Just exposed to last injuries.
53:16
Speaker 3: Concussion is akin to sorry, opening in parachute is a
53:19
Speaker 3: kin to a concussion. DVO doesn't recognize it. So we're
53:22
Speaker 3: going to do some work in that space.
53:27
Speaker 2: Shortly. What else was I saying?
53:31
Speaker 1: It was just about anybody, anybody else who's who's kind
53:34
Speaker 1: of doing it around here, or whether there's any any
53:37
Speaker 1: professions that are critical of it.
53:40
Speaker 2: So what I.
53:42
Speaker 3: Do get sometimes is psychologist saying that you know, em
53:44
Speaker 3: DR doesn't work. And so what I say to them is, oh, that's.
53:49
Speaker 2: Not a that's not a reflection on em DR.
53:52
Speaker 3: That's a reflection on you as a therapist and the
53:54
Speaker 3: fact that you don't understand your patient's psychophysiology. Em DR
53:58
Speaker 3: works phenomenally well as long as you understand your patient.
54:02
Speaker 3: And so they don't like People generally don't like me
54:06
Speaker 3: sometimes because I'm very upfront and I'll just.
54:11
Speaker 2: Basically say it as it is.
54:14
Speaker 3: But no, I think that the time you get pushed
54:16
Speaker 3: back is when people go, oh, it's not evidence based.
54:21
Speaker 3: If I had a dollar for every time someone said that,
54:23
Speaker 3: I'd be a multi millionaire. Everything we do is evidence based.
54:26
Speaker 3: It is all science based. Egs have been around since
54:29
Speaker 3: late eighteen hundreds for crying out loud, you know, like
54:32
Speaker 3: grow up.
54:33
Speaker 1: So either nine published research, peer reviewed research on the
54:39
Speaker 1: efficacy of the.
54:40
Speaker 2: Interventions and the safety.
54:43
Speaker 3: Like there's decades and decades and decades. It's just big
54:47
Speaker 3: Farmer stands in the way of.
54:49
Speaker 2: All of this.
54:50
Speaker 3: Big Farmer used to pay for the research into this,
54:52
Speaker 3: and as soon as they found.
54:53
Speaker 2: Out how valuable it was for society, they cut funding.
54:57
Speaker 3: You know.
54:57
Speaker 2: So there is there is just a lot of evidence
55:02
Speaker 2: based research.
55:04
Speaker 1: Cool. So where can people go to find out more
55:07
Speaker 1: about you? No, presumably this is not done over zoom.
55:12
Speaker 1: It's done in the clinic unfortunately, So and so talk
55:18
Speaker 1: to us about where if they if they want to
55:20
Speaker 1: come and see you. Gingderbyne, New South Wheels, Victorian Border.
55:24
Speaker 2: Yep, so we've got Ginderbaye, New South Wales.
55:27
Speaker 3: I've got a clinic in Tamworth in New South Wales
55:29
Speaker 3: Country Music State. I've got a clinic in Piran in
55:34
Speaker 3: Victoria in Melbourne.
55:35
Speaker 1: Yeah, I need to come and see I'm gonna come
55:38
Speaker 1: and see you and you can have a look at
55:39
Speaker 1: my brain and you can can you can write a
55:43
Speaker 1: research paper on my fucked up head.
55:46
Speaker 2: Mine too. And then we've got a clinic here in
55:50
Speaker 2: Western Australia.
55:51
Speaker 3: So I'm in Perth today at the moment, about to
55:53
Speaker 3: go work with some patients and we're in West Perth
55:56
Speaker 3: in in w A. I think that's all. Oh, and
56:00
Speaker 3: Wogga Wogga. We're about to open on the twentieth of
56:03
Speaker 3: April in Wogga Wogga at the Propatria Center. So again
56:06
Speaker 3: Wogger is a big defense area or the little baby
56:11
Speaker 3: recruits go to Woggar and then for some reason, so
56:14
Speaker 3: many people want to like get out and transition out
56:18
Speaker 3: of defense.
56:19
Speaker 2: In Woga and live in Woga.
56:21
Speaker 3: So we're tapping into that space for a lot of
56:25
Speaker 3: the military guys as well.
56:26
Speaker 1: Cool and sobody. If there are a health professional councilor
56:31
Speaker 1: that's sort of seeing psychologist, psychiatrist who wants to get
56:35
Speaker 1: into this area, is curious about it, where would you
56:39
Speaker 1: send down? Would that be your mental Barbara?
56:42
Speaker 3: Is that the what I would say is just come
56:46
Speaker 3: and talk to me to start off with I can
56:49
Speaker 3: then put them in touch with DTR Dogris. Doctor Dogris
56:52
Speaker 3: is actually coming to Australia in September. The answer conferences
56:59
Speaker 3: on up in the Gold Coast. Tiff and Nick so
57:03
Speaker 3: doctor Thompson, which is doctor Dogris's wife.
57:06
Speaker 2: Tiff, she's a keynote speaker in and.
57:10
Speaker 3: Around transcrenial alternating current stimulation technologies. And then Nick and
57:14
Speaker 3: Tiff are running a boot camp course which is a
57:17
Speaker 3: five day in depth course that you would need to
57:22
Speaker 3: go and do if you're wanting to get into this space.
57:25
Speaker 1: And they got to run that in Australia.
57:27
Speaker 2: Yeah, and the Gold Coast invaluable.
57:30
Speaker 3: So I've got so my mum, like I said, she's
57:33
Speaker 3: a doctor of clinical site. Her one of like family
57:38
Speaker 3: friends that we grew up with. I'm trying to get
57:40
Speaker 3: a lot of them up there to go and do
57:42
Speaker 3: the course. They're all based in Sydney because I just
57:45
Speaker 3: get so many people so much demand asking me to
57:48
Speaker 3: open clinics in everywhere Sydney, Brisbane, South Australia. So we
57:52
Speaker 3: will eventually get to that. But it's a lot of
57:56
Speaker 3: hard work for one person.
57:58
Speaker 1: No, no, I appreciate that. So five day course in
58:01
Speaker 1: the Gold course. Let me get the link off. You
58:04
Speaker 1: will put it in the show notes for people who
58:07
Speaker 1: may be interested in going to do that. And one
58:10
Speaker 1: last question, what what do you need to be to
58:15
Speaker 1: use this intervention? Presumably you need to be a certified
58:19
Speaker 1: health professional of some description.
58:23
Speaker 2: No, so it's pretty scary.
58:26
Speaker 3: I'm not registered with anyone because if I get registered
58:30
Speaker 3: with UPRO, they'll come after me.
58:31
Speaker 2: So I have had to be very strategic and careful.
58:34
Speaker 3: So I have a psychology background, but I yeah, you
58:38
Speaker 3: can't because it's just such brand new technology.
58:42
Speaker 1: Okay, all right, So anybody can go and do the
58:44
Speaker 1: course if they want and want to give it.
58:46
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, as I would be very careful.
58:49
Speaker 3: I would always make sure someone has a background in health.
58:55
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, in health, cuning, that sort.
58:57
Speaker 2: Of stuffy nursing, mental, all that sort of stuff.
59:01
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, cool, awesome, awesome, this has been this has
59:05
Speaker 1: been fascinating stuff. So thank you for your time and
59:10
Speaker 1: for your expertise, for being a trail blazer of this
59:13
Speaker 1: in Australia.
59:14
Speaker 2: I appreciate your time. To Paul, thank you