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Resilience and Partnership: Navigating Challenges with Shelton Steele and Joe Balcken · Epic Entrepreneurs

• 0:29
  Speaker 1: Hey there, welcome to this week's episode of Epic Entrepreneurs.
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: Today I'm with Shelton and Joe from the Wrong Way River Lodge and Campgrounds.
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: So welcome to the podcast and tell us a little bit about how you got into this business in the first place.
• 0:46
  Speaker 2: Hey, Bill thanks for having us on here.
• 0:48
  Speaker 2: I'm Shelton, I'm Joe.
• 0:51
  Speaker 2: Thanks for having us on here.
• 0:54
  Speaker 2: I'm Shelton, I'm Joe.
• 0:55
  Speaker 2: Joe and I met playing adult soccer 20 plus years ago.
• 0:57
  Speaker 2: That number keeps getting bigger Kind of like being married, I guess, right.
• 1:01
  Speaker 2: And we recently kind of hit a juncture in life where both of us were looking for a career change and we had an idea to pursue lodging in Asheville.
• 1:15
  Speaker 2: It's kind of a big bucket, but we felt like there was an opportunity around a lodging experience that aligned with Asheville's outdoor personality, and so we built the Wrong Way River Lodge and Cabins.
• 1:29
  Speaker 3: You built the wrong way river lodge and cabins, yep and we found a really hairy piece of property to problem solve and figure out how to build it.
• 1:48
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's kind of on the side of a mountain would be strong, but it's sort of on the side of a hill.
• 1:51
  Speaker 2: For sure that's right Side of a hill in a floodplain French Broad River corridor, so it's kind of a hot topic of discussion right now.
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: Yeah Well, let's jump right in.
• 1:58
  Speaker 1: I mean, a lot of people, let's talk about adversity.
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: I mean, you guys hit it pretty hard this fall, so let's talk about I think everyone knows that we had a massive weather experience with Hurricane Alene, with 40 inches of rain falling down in two days, and the French Broad River, which you're sort of across the park and the street from, was ridiculously high, some 20, some feet above its normal thing, and so you did have some damage.
• 2:29
  Speaker 1: Tell us about that and tell us sort of what's been your response.
• 2:34
  Speaker 3: Yeah, so we had, like you said, 24.1 feet was the closest gauge in terms of flooding.
• 2:49
  Speaker 3: So our cabins at least 13 of the 16, are built for the flood, quote unquote.
• 2:58
  Speaker 3: And the way they're built for the flood is that they are on these concrete piers that range anywhere from 10 feet to 14 feet and you park underneath those cabins like you would a beach house.
• 3:13
  Speaker 3: Even still, six of those cabins got flooded, the worst of which was five feet underwater.
• 3:24
  Speaker 3: And then our river lodge, which is a communal structure.
• 3:29
  Speaker 3: We have an event space in the bottom floor that also had five feet of water inside of it, so those structures had flood damage and then a good portion of the property also had flood damage.
• 3:49
  Speaker 3: Luckily we were in kind of this eddy of that river flooding, so we didn't't sustain a lot of structural damage.
• 3:54
  Speaker 3: That would have occurred from a strong current.
• 3:58
  Speaker 3: But still, with the floodwaters that inundated the cabins and the lower floor of the river lodge, we were impacted pretty severely.
• 4:11
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so one of our tenants is responsibility, and that just means the ability to respond.
• 4:16
  Speaker 1: So how did y'all respond to the event?
• 4:23
  Speaker 2: Well, I mean it was a knee knocker.
• 4:26
  Speaker 2: I mean it hit us.
• 4:27
  Speaker 2: You know, hit everyone in Western North Carolina, september 26th 2024.
• 4:31
  Speaker 2: So you know, hit everyone in Western North Carolina, september 26th 2024.
• 4:32
  Speaker 2: So you know you're talking about, you're heading straight into the busiest season of the year, busiest month of the year, october.
• 4:37
  Speaker 2: So you know our responsibility, first and foremost, we're both parents.
• 4:44
  Speaker 2: So we took care of our families and made sure that, you know, everybody in our nuclear family had what they needed.
• 4:51
  Speaker 2: Sure that you know everybody in our nuclear family had what they needed.
• 4:55
  Speaker 2: And then we kind of made our way to wrong way to uncover the damage.
• 4:57
  Speaker 2: And you know we, joe and I, kind of together set up our little disaster response team and made a few phone calls.
• 5:07
  Speaker 2: And you know, I'm sure this is something you guys talk about a lot on the podcast bill, but it's your network, you know who who's, who's your core team, that you know you can make that emergency phone call to.
• 5:18
  Speaker 2: And you know we called our general contractor, ward Griffin, with Griffin builders and you know, within two days we had a plan to demo and remediate and get ahead of any kind of moisture mold mitigation and within 90 days we had the property completely restored and more importantly, I feel like, is by November 1st we were partially operational and I think that as we move into 2025, I think starting in November allows us to build that momentum so that, you know, we're able to really be, you know, at cruising altitude come summertime.
• 6:04
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I found that a lot of I mean the mental yeah, I found that a lot of I mean the mental strain and the mental stress was tough.
• 6:15
  Speaker 1: A lot of people had a hard time looking forward, I think, and so I think it sounds like y'all immediately got to work on looking forward by like, here's what we got to deal with.
• 6:30
  Speaker 1: Now, let's deal with it and then we'll worry about moving forward.
• 6:34
  Speaker 1: So, did you have reserves or insurance, or you know how did I mean?
• 6:38
  Speaker 1: Obviously, one of the big things that happens to businesses in a, in a natural disaster, is hey, you know, can you how are we going to pay for this thing?
• 6:45
  Speaker 1: Because it's a big.
• 6:47
  Speaker 1: You know, financially it's a big.
• 6:50
  Speaker 1: You know it's a big.
• 6:51
  Speaker 1: Oops, I mean, it's a holy cow, this wasn't in the plan.
• 6:56
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 6:56
  Speaker 1: So yeah.
• 6:58
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I think you know there's all kinds of personalities out there and there's a good amount of entrepreneurs that are on the optimistic side of the fence, and that doesn't.
• 7:11
  Speaker 3: That's me.
• 7:12
  Speaker 3: That doesn't always play into planning for those unexpected events to happen.
• 7:24
  Speaker 3: So, whether it's making sure they have flood insurance or some working capital set aside at least for us, and especially in this event, we found out how important that is so that you can get started really quickly If we didn't have that working capital set aside, we would still be waiting for our flood insurance to come through, because it's still in process, and if we weren't able to get onto that moisture mitigation as quickly as we did or reconstruction as quickly as we did and now we're 100% operational we would have been in a tough spot.
• 8:10
  Speaker 3: So I think you know if we learned anything, it's to plan for those unexpected events.
• 8:17
  Speaker 3: Make sure you have that nest egg set aside and protect it as much as possible If, even if you're not in the flood zone, you know flood insurance is one of those necessary things because it doesn't require a river just to get impacted by a busted water pipe or some other thing that blood insurance may be helpful for.
• 8:40
  Speaker 3: So you know.
• 8:41
  Speaker 3: Our advice, at least to others that might be going into this, is to, you know, get flood insurance or something that lowers your risk to some extent for those unexpected situations, and have that nest egg set aside so that you can keep on plowing forward.
• 8:58
  Speaker 3: We were able to keep that momentum because we had a very specific path forward.
• 9:06
  Speaker 3: We didn't have to look at this amorphous future, which nobody knew what the future held, but we knew what the path to reconstruction was.
• 9:16
  Speaker 3: We had full control over that Right.
• 9:20
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it's that idea of what you can control and what you can't control, bill, yeah, if you, the simple explanation for why we had such a our capital reserve was in place.
• 9:34
  Speaker 2: We had just taken down an SBA loan in January of 2024.
• 9:38
  Speaker 2: We had recapitalized our whole business after a couple of years of operation and we specifically acquired a nest egg to cover this five-year projection that we had put together.
• 9:57
  Speaker 2: And the flood was not what we intended to spend that money on, but the point is that it was there, and another requirement of that SBA loan was that we carried flood insurance.
• 10:04
  Speaker 2: So we had our flood insurance buttoned up and in place and I think you know I would encourage people as you're opening a business or you're looking at growing your business.
• 10:15
  Speaker 2: A lot of these guidelines are there for a reason, and I don't mean you got to do everything that.
• 10:20
  Speaker 2: You know the guidelines helped us.
• 10:23
  Speaker 2: Let's just let's call it what it was right.
• 10:25
  Speaker 2: Like they were in place, we built two feet above base flood elevation.
• 10:29
  Speaker 2: That that allowed us to weather that big flood event.
• 10:35
  Speaker 2: We had flood insurance and then we had a capital reserve and you know that's why we're open and operational right now.
• 10:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I think we often get mad at the lenders and say, why do they have these requirements?
• 10:51
  Speaker 1: But they know I mean they're predicting their money.
• 10:53
  Speaker 1: So you know it's an investment, it's not a gift, and they want to get paid back and they know that, hey, these things have to be in place.
• 11:02
  Speaker 1: And I love what you said about the area of control, and I always draw it as two concentric circles the area of control is in the middle and then the area of concern is the stuff outside.
• 11:12
  Speaker 1: You can't do anything about it, you can't do anything about the river, but you can do, you can control the thing.
• 11:18
  Speaker 1: So well done on all fronts.
• 11:20
  Speaker 1: Let me ask you something.
• 11:21
  Speaker 1: It came up when you were talking about, like you know, I'm an entrepreneur and I'm optimistic and I'm in there and I'm guessing, joe, you might be a little more on the conservative side and let's, let's.
• 11:33
  Speaker 1: So it's a good partnership.
• 11:34
  Speaker 1: Talk about having partners and working together as a partner.
• 11:38
  Speaker 2: How have y'all, how have y'all navigated that Shoot man, the ham and egg, right, I mean, you know, I think, if you use the disaster as a filter, I mean, you know, having a partner to lean on during that period was instrumental and kind of you know, just the emotional strength of drawing off of one another.
• 11:59
  Speaker 2: You have a good day, you know you're pulling one forward and vice versa, um, and you know, I think, if you go back to we started this business in 2022, right, and Joe just turned 50.
• 12:12
  Speaker 2: Um, so, happy birthday, joe.
• 12:15
  Speaker 2: Don't tell him that, oh, come on.
• 12:17
  Speaker 1: Happy birthday, joe.
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: Sorry, yeah, is that today?
• 12:20
  Speaker 1: Is that today actually?
• 12:22
  Speaker 3: A couple of days ago.
• 12:23
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 12:23
  Speaker 2: Well, congrats.
• 12:24
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 12:25
  Speaker 2: So you know, I'm 46.
• 12:27
  Speaker 2: I mean, we're in the middle of our lives.
• 12:29
  Speaker 2: We have kids, families, you know.
• 12:32
  Speaker 2: Jumping off a cliff as an entrepreneur in your early 20s when it's the only thing you want to focus on and you have so much time and space to do that is one scenario, is one scenario.
• 12:45
  Speaker 2: And then if you kind of hit it in the middle of your life, like we did, we needed that partnership in order to tow the load together.
• 12:56
  Speaker 2: And you know, I've had family stuff, joe's had family stuff.
• 12:58
  Speaker 2: It was just real life, you know, and we're able to kind of move in and out of focus so that you know when we have needs outside of work, one's able to be here and help operate this business.
• 13:09
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and I think you know, besides the just sharing the burden concept, it's also our.
• 13:18
  Speaker 3: You know different personalities which you kind of alluded to there.
• 13:23
  Speaker 3: Bill Shelton is very much a momentum man.
• 13:27
  Speaker 3: He's, you know, leaning forward.
• 13:29
  Speaker 3: He's got the bias for action, he's the optimist and I'm the practical one, the data-driven decision one.
• 13:39
  Speaker 3: You know the intention behind that momentum and I think you know, as long as we recognize that we and I think you know as long as we recognize that we that both things together are really powerful, because sometimes you know, I can get frustrated with him when he's off running we haven't thought about it.
• 13:57
  Speaker 3: He can get frustrated with me when I'm saying, hey, let's think about this, and you know he's ready to go.
• 14:04
  Speaker 3: But it is a really good partnership when we are able to pause and think but then go.
• 14:12
  Speaker 3: If we didn't have that dynamic, this wrong way, if it was just me, this concept, this business would still be on 16,000 spreadsheets and would have never been realized.
• 14:27
  Speaker 3: And if Shelton was doing it on his own, you know, we wouldn't have as many people saying how much intentionality is behind what they experience.
• 14:39
  Speaker 3: So between the two of us we're able to have something real that people can touch and feel and comment on how intentional it is.
• 14:50
  Speaker 3: So it works really well for us.
• 14:53
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I think you have to have both in a partnership.
• 14:55
  Speaker 1: You've got to have that entrepreneurial sort of go get it, let's just get done with it kind of thing.
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: But you also have to have the practical sort of operation side.
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: I always say it's a.
• 15:06
  Speaker 1: In most businesses there's a sales component and an operations component.
• 15:11
  Speaker 1: Of course you got to have the financial component as well, but I I see a lot in businesses as, as they grow, If it's just one owner, they've got to employ someone to take care of whichever part they're not strong in.
• 15:23
  Speaker 1: So it's so it's great.
• 15:25
  Speaker 1: It's great that you, that you guys, have that.
• 15:27
  Speaker 1: So just a quick aside what's the?
• 15:32
  Speaker 1: Where'd you come up with the name?
• 15:34
  Speaker 1: I mean, it's kind of a great name, right a name and a brand.
• 15:51
  Speaker 3: Not everybody in our little circle thought so either.
• 15:52
  Speaker 3: Um, you know what?
• 15:53
  Speaker 3: What was really cool about coming up with that name when we had, you know, narrowed it down to three of them, we had the name wrong way was in there and another one was in there.
• 16:02
  Speaker 3: I think it was like west bend or something.
• 16:04
  Speaker 3: It it felt very appealing to the masses.
• 16:09
  Speaker 3: It sounded like some neighborhood development or something, and everybody liked it when we were testing the market.
• 16:16
  Speaker 3: But Wrong Way didn't test as well, meaning not as many people liked it, but the people that did like it really liked it.
• 16:27
  Speaker 3: They thought that was the coolest name.
• 16:29
  Speaker 3: And where it comes from is the river that we just got done talking about.
• 16:34
  Speaker 3: It is one of the few rivers in the world that flows from south to north Right, so it is our wrong way river here locally, and both Shelton and I have have in our history, um working on the river.
• 16:52
  Speaker 3: He was a kayak instructor, I was a whitewater rafting guide on the French Broad River actually, and that was one of the little stories I told the guests when we were going down.
• 17:03
  Speaker 3: The French Broad River is it's one of the few rivers in the world that flows from south to north yep, yeah, yeah, it's, yeah, it's backwards, um, or it feels backwards because it doesn't.
• 17:15
  Speaker 1: It doesn't looks like on a map.
• 17:16
  Speaker 1: It ought to go the other way, but yeah that's correct, yeah there's a couple more, but it's, it's a, that's a, that's a, that's an, that's an interesting one.
• 17:23
  Speaker 1: Well, let me ask you um what have been some of your biggest lessons?
• 17:33
  Speaker 2: As a business.
• 17:34
  Speaker 2: What have been our biggest lessons?
• 17:37
  Speaker 1: Yeah, maybe one each.
• 17:42
  Speaker 2: I mean as the optimist in the duo.
• 17:44
  Speaker 2: I think you know my biggest lesson has been that it's not going to be as linear as you want it to be.
• 17:51
  Speaker 2: And you know, just because there are highs and lows doesn't mean that you're not doing the right thing and that it's not heading the right direction.
• 18:00
  Speaker 2: But you know that kind of resiliency as a small business, you know.
• 18:06
  Speaker 2: I think in American culture it's you know culture everybody wants to use the tech.
• 18:12
  Speaker 2: The dot-com example of did you 100, 1,000 exit and how did you build it up and sell it?
• 18:19
  Speaker 2: And I think the reality of the small business community is it's a slow, long grind and you enjoy your wins, you learn something from your losses but you keep it pointed, the right direction.
• 18:33
  Speaker 2: And you know, ultimately you're able to grow your business and your community and your customer base.
• 18:39
  Speaker 2: And you know I think that's the long-winded answer in saying that you know it's it's, it's a slow win.
• 18:51
  Speaker 1: That's what I've learned.
• 18:51
  Speaker 1: That's the optimist answer we got it.
• 18:53
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 18:54
  Speaker 1: No, I got it.
• 18:56
  Speaker 1: It's got to be long winded, it's got to be right, cause you got to describe the whole thing.
• 18:59
  Speaker 1: It's cool, that's good.
• 19:00
  Speaker 1: How about you, joe?
• 19:02
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I think, besides what we already talked about, which is that kind of yeah in capital S to egg and you know whatever version of insurance applies to your business Um, it's all about focus and prioritization, because, especially as a small business, uh, especially as an owner, um, there's going to be so many things that you have to do and I would love to hire a bunch of people to focus on all those things, but the reality is that there are just some things that are going to be deprioritized and not focused on because we don't have the time or the money to focus on it.
• 19:47
  Speaker 3: So be at least for us be intentional about what your priorities are and where you're going to focus your time, and revisit that with some regularity, because you can get the blinders on and get swept away by everything that has to be done, and then you pick your head up a year later and you go, what, what are we even doing?
• 20:16
  Speaker 3: Right, so you know just being intentional with prioritization, knowing that you can only focus on the top one, two, three, four priorities, and then you know, planning to revisit that those priorities every quarter or twice a year, once a year, uh, so that you can ask your, your yourself, the question, uh, of whether or not they're still appropriate.
• 20:45
  Speaker 3: And we should put our head down and keep focusing on those priorities, yeah.
• 20:52
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I like it, I like it a lot.
• 20:54
  Speaker 1: So let's do a sort of a quick fire round.
• 20:56
  Speaker 1: Just quick answer.
• 20:57
  Speaker 1: So EPIC is a acronym and so the first part of the E stands for education.
• 21:04
  Speaker 1: Just a quick thought on education when it comes to running a business.
• 21:11
  Speaker 3: Oh, I would say, how do you get involved civically, like, how does your municipality work?
• 21:19
  Speaker 3: Who makes decisions?
• 21:21
  Speaker 3: You know, how can you get involved?
• 21:24
  Speaker 3: I sit on a city commission and I was involved before the flood happened.
• 21:32
  Speaker 3: That type of involvement, those networks, those connections have become so valuable now that the city is talking about okay, what do we do, how do we rebuild.
• 21:44
  Speaker 3: Just being involved prior to the flood has become so valuable as those conversations ramp up.
• 21:54
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and you get an education in how the government and the permitting and all that stuff works.
• 21:57
  Speaker 1: So it's, yeah, it's crazy.
• 21:59
  Speaker 1: So how about planning?
• 22:01
  Speaker 1: The P stands for planning.
• 22:03
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I've learned a lot planning from Joe.
• 22:06
  Speaker 2: You know he's pragmatic in how we lay things out, but you know, I think that planning for me has allowed, you know wrong way, to have annual goals, three-year, five-year goals, and then we kind of have to reevaluate how we're tracking against those goals and I think that ultimately affects your day-to-day example being the flood.
• 22:29
  Speaker 2: Right, I mean, we flooded in September, closed in October.
• 22:33
  Speaker 2: We're having one of the slowest winters you know Asheville's ever had, closed in October.
• 22:36
  Speaker 2: We're having one of the slowest winters Asheville's ever had and we had to recalculate all of 2025 because it didn't paper out like we had it before the flood.
• 22:43
  Speaker 2: So, you know, planning, adapting and then replanning, right.
• 22:58
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I mean plans change, I mean, but you got to think it through.
• 22:59
  Speaker 1: So you know, well done on having a plan, I mean, it's what I would say, which I'm sure you had to have to get your SBA loan anyway.
• 23:02
  Speaker 1: Yeah, the I stands for inspiration.
• 23:03
  Speaker 1: So either how do you, where do you find inspiration, or how do you be an inspiration?
• 23:12
  Speaker 2: Either one.
• 23:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I continue to find inspiration from our guests and our local customers that use our property.
• 23:34
  Speaker 2: I mean, people come in and do things here to continue to learn from them and then, you know, make sure that that that new experience that they brought to our place is something that we then offer to other people, right?
• 23:47
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I would.
• 23:47
  Speaker 3: I would second that you know, besides our guests reacting and commenting about their experiences, just people in the community and how they react to this, especially if it's the first time that you've seen it.
• 24:03
  Speaker 3: I know this is a podcast and you can't exactly see what wrong way.
• 24:06
  Speaker 1: And you ought to go by there and look at it.
• 24:08
  Speaker 1: It's pretty cool.
• 24:08
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, it really is.
• 24:11
  Speaker 1: If you're in Asheville, go see it.
• 24:13
  Speaker 1: If you haven't been, it's awesome.
• 24:16
  Speaker 3: Yeah, that's what I get inspired by, because we're in it day to day.
• 24:21
  Speaker 3: The newness has worn off Right.
• 24:25
  Speaker 3: So for the folks that react to it, that are seeing it for the first time and saying how cool it is or how novel it is, it reminds me of that cool factor that we experienced when we're drawing it up on a piece of paper.
• 24:44
  Speaker 1: Yep and the C is commitment.
• 24:47
  Speaker 1: So what's your thoughts on commitment?
• 24:51
  Speaker 2: Man, we have a parent company that operates this business called All Forward Outdoors, and All Forward is the rafting call that you give as you enter a rapid and you're telling your guest in your boat to paddle their butts off.
• 25:07
  Speaker 2: So I think you know we're an All Forward business all the way.
• 25:13
  Speaker 2: I mean commitment is how you actualize your dream.
• 25:17
  Speaker 2: So you know, don't be afraid of the commitment if you want to realize, you know, your small business dream.
• 25:25
  Speaker 2: No.
• 25:26
  Speaker 1: I love that.
• 25:27
  Speaker 1: Actualize your dream.
• 25:29
  Speaker 1: All forward, All forward.
• 25:31
  Speaker 1: Actualize your dream.
• 25:32
  Speaker 1: That might be the title of this podcast.
• 25:35
  Speaker 1: We'll think about that.
• 25:36
  Speaker 1: We'll think about that one.
• 25:37
  Speaker 1: A couple more quick questions.
• 25:38
  Speaker 1: One's serious and the other one's just a little bit of fun.
• 25:47
  Speaker 1: What do you wish that you had known before you went into this?
• 25:55
  Speaker 2: What do you wish somebody had told you that's a good one.
• 25:57
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean know that.
• 26:09
  Speaker 3: You know the the newness of operating a new business is going to wear off and what's going to be left over is operating a business for a long, long time.
• 26:13
  Speaker 3: So be sure that it's something that you want to commit a lot of hours to.
• 26:22
  Speaker 3: I come from corporate America and you know it was a grind and I you know there were weeks that I was spending 60, 65 hours a week doing that job and it wasn't for myself.
• 26:41
  Speaker 3: But if you're going to own your own business, you're going to work that plus some.
• 26:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's fixed.
• 26:50
  Speaker 1: You traded a 65-hour job for a 100-hour job.
• 26:54
  Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly, yeah, that yeah.
• 26:55
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah.
• 26:56
  Speaker 3: That's good, and if you, if you have a family, make sure you have those conversations with your families, because you're not the only one that's committing to that.
• 27:06
  Speaker 1: That's right yeah, a hundred percent, a hundred percent.
• 27:08
  Speaker 1: How about you, shel?
• 27:09
  Speaker 1: What do you wish?
• 27:09
  Speaker 1: Somebody told you.
• 27:12
  Speaker 2: You know, it's kind of that point I made earlier about it not being linear, right.
• 27:15
  Speaker 2: I mean, in a way I'm on the sales side, I did the fundraising, the business kind of development side of getting this place put together, and that felt like at the time that that was my Mount Everest, like I had summited and man, that was it.
• 27:34
  Speaker 2: But you know, I wish somebody had kind of told me you know, hey, that's, that is your first false summit that you have just reached.
• 27:41
  Speaker 2: And, man, you're, you're going up there and it's going to take a while to get there.
• 27:48
  Speaker 1: Yeah, no, that's cool.
• 27:49
  Speaker 1: Um, yeah, so.
• 27:52
  Speaker 1: So you met playing soccer.
• 27:58
  Speaker 1: What positions do you guys play?
• 28:03
  Speaker 2: I was playing in the midfield, joe played in the back.
• 28:06
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I was kind of the big sweeper.
• 28:08
  Speaker 3: I'm 6'4" and not quick, but I got really long legs.
• 28:15
  Speaker 1: So I can just get in people's way yeah, no, it's cool, it's.
• 28:19
  Speaker 1: I just think it's interesting.
• 28:20
  Speaker 1: What I think it fits personalities where people end up playing yeah yeah, it's pretty, it's it's, it's pretty interesting.
• 28:27
  Speaker 1: So where do people find you or how can they get a hold of you?
• 28:30
  Speaker 1: How can they check you out?
• 28:32
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, we're online.
• 28:34
  Speaker 2: We're at wrongwaycampgroundcom and that's that's an easy thing to look up as well, and we've got an Instagram handle, facebook handle as well as a LinkedIn handle, and then you can get Shelton at Wrong Way Campground or Joe at Wrong Way Campground and yeah, please reach out, come take a tour.
• 28:54
  Speaker 2: And I mean part of you know what's inspiring to me is helping people kind of talk through their own small business dreams.
• 29:02
  Speaker 2: So if you're thinking about building this kind of concept, love to hear your ideas and share what we can.
• 29:10
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's awesome.
• 29:11
  Speaker 1: So are there any plans in the future for more developments or more lodging opportunities or anything in the five-year plan?
• 29:22
  Speaker 1: Stay tuned.
• 29:31
  Speaker 3: Yes, good, cool Ford Outdoors to continue to bring new developments to Asheville and the surrounding area that are outdoor focused and values driven.
• 29:46
  Speaker 3: So that's what we intend to do.
• 29:48
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's awesome.
• 29:49
  Speaker 1: Well, it's been super cool having you.
• 29:51
  Speaker 1: I've enjoyed talking to you.
• 29:52
  Speaker 1: I hope it's been fun for y'all.
• 29:54
  Speaker 2: Yeah, thanks for the time, bill.
• 29:56
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's been great.
• 29:56
  Speaker 1: Hey, and until next time all the best.
• 30:01
  Speaker 1: Thanks, bill.