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Exploring the Sober Journey with Maggie Klaassens - The Sober Summit · Love Sober Podcast

0:01
Hi, and welcome to Love Sober podcast, the podcast for the sober and sober curious.
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I'm Kate Bailey. I'm a coach, an author, and I'm a Brit mum from West Sussex.
0:23
Hi, and welcome back to Love Sober, the podcast for the sober and sober curious.
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And this episode is the first one of 2025, and I'm super excited to welcome Maggie here.
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Maggie Klassens, Klassens?
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Yep, you got it. Excellent. I'm married into it, Kate. Maggie Klassens.
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And yeah, hi, Maggie. It's so lovely to see you. Oh, thank you so much for having
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me. I'm so excited to be here.
0:52
Oh, bless you. And well, I'm excited that you're here too.
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And it was like it was serendipitous wasn't
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it because we've sort of connected before we
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were talking about we've been aware of each other's work in the
1:05
sober space for a few years and then it just sort of the
1:08
stars aligned and it just sort of happened and we had a date that we could do
1:14
the podcast so we both jumped on it so that's really really fantastic and Maggie
1:18
is the host of a super exciting free on your online virtual event called the Sober Summit.
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And this brings together authors, podcasts, experts, and influencers in the sober community.
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So she's really busy doing great work in the sober community.
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And she's also a certified alcohol-free coach and the creator of the online
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community, The Sober Circle.
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So you're busy. I'm a little busy.
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I love it. I mean, I don't know about you. I'm sure you can resonate with this.
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But when you tap into the sober community, it's such an amazing community to be a part of.
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So to give back and to be around these people, I mean, it just lights my fire.
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So I love doing this work and being a part of it. And it keeps me,
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you know, in my sober journey, too. So that's why I love it.
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Yeah, it does, doesn't it? I was talking to someone actually,
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I think, I don't know, we were just chatting before we got on the air together
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about retreat that I've just done in Spain.
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It's like a yoga, creative midlife retreat for sober women.
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And we were talking about the habit change and the muscle power.
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There was somebody sort of, you know, really kind of talking about how to remember,
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because sometimes you just, especially early days, you can sort of,
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sobriety can be a real game of memory sometimes.
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And we were talking about daily repetition and accountability.
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And I said, actually, doing the podcast was very much about keeping me remembering
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every week, checking in, doing this work.
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So I totally get what you mean about, you know, it being part of and sort of
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foundational almost to our own sober journeys.
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A hundred percent. I mean, this is what I learn and I grow from meeting other people in this space.
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Like I learn, you know, what tools work for them and their story,
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hearing their stories motivates me and inspires me.
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And so to be able to stay connected with people in this community,
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that's what keeps me close.
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Right I never want to create any sort
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of distance between me and my old version of me right I
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don't want to lose track of the reason why I'm here today and why I'm doing
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this and why I chose to be alcohol free so being connected to people in this
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community is is huge part of my journey yeah yeah absolutely so tell us a little
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bit about the Sober Summit and when it is
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Yeah. So this is our fourth one, which is, Kate, I never, ever thought that
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I would be here doing a fourth one.
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I never even thought I'd do a first one, to be honest.
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But we're on our fourth one. It's April 23rd through 25th. As you mentioned, it's an online event.
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So we have people from all over the world attend, which is just incredible. but we have 24 speakers.
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It's three days worth of content.
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So it's free in the sense that everybody has 24 hours to listen to that day's speakers.
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We have eight interviews go live at 8 a.m. Eastern that morning,
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and then people have 24 hours to listen to it.
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And then the first days goes away and then day two, and it's really broken out
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into, you know, different themes.
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So day one is really about the foundations of sobriety, right?
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We learn like the science behind it.
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We learn how to actually become sober. So we've got some incredible, we have Dr.
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Philippe Douillon, who is a neurologist. He talks about the brain and alcohol
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and neuroplasticity, which is just so interesting.
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I think the science behind it is just, once you know the science,
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it's really hard to unknow the science.
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So I love talking to people about the science and how it, you know,
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alcohol impacts our brains and our bodies.
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We also have Natalie Bataglia coming in from Australia, not coming in,
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but, you know, I got to interview her all the way from Australia.
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And she, you know, talks about the joys of mocktails and how that's an integral
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part of, you know, the early sobriety journey and utilizing tools like alcohol-free
5:21
drinks and, you know, changing the recipe,
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but or changing the ingredients,
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but keeping the routine, you know, that was a big one for me.
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And I just love talking to her. We had a really good time.
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And then day two is really about you know, the relationships in sobriety.
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So making new friends with Alex Hayes. She comes in and talks about how to make
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new friends, how to socialize with Victoria Vanstone, right?
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It's these parts that people, I think...
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Keep them fearful of actually becoming sober because they don't know how to
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do that part of life without alcohol.
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It's such a big part of our culture that that fear almost keeps us from starting.
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And so I think we're always going to have maybe a wedding or a party or a get together to go to.
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And so it's hard to envision that without those tools and inspiration from those
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people of knowing, like, how do I actually navigate a social scene?
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And so that's day two. And then day three, we have thriving and sobriety.
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So this is really like what happens after I get sober.
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So we have like Samantha Lander. She's coming in to talk about how to heal your body, right?
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We put our bodies through a lot when we're drinking and we don't even realize
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that even if you're a social drinker or a casual drinker or just a nightly wine
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drinker like I was, right?
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It's still, it's impactful to our bodies. And I don't think we really truly
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understand that. And we have topics like Gary Mankees, he comes in and talks
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about the life you never knew was possible, right?
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Like how much more life could there be to live if you just remove this one thing?
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And I think oftentimes we think that we're giving up a lot.
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And truly, it's more of focusing on what we're gaining because we gain so much more.
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And when we start focusing on all the things that we
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get from sobriety man it
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just opens up this whole world of like wow i
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didn't even know that life was possible so yeah it's a really really great event
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i have so much fun interviewing all these people and you get to hear their stories
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and then they each have a topic that they're talking about so anywhere from
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you know dealing with marriage and family to, you know.
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Dealing with cravings and moderation.
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The question of like, what can I moderate? You know, that comes up too.
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A lot of people think, well, maybe I could just moderate.
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So we answer a lot of those questions. And it's a good tool for those that are
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either sober curious or even on their journey already.
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Because like you and I just said, it's important to stay connected,
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to listen to stories and to, you know,
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stay on top of topics that are you know impactful to
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you in your journey right now so yeah yeah
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absolutely sounds fantastic it sounds like a fantastic resource
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for people and and that word resource came to me when I was listening to you
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all about you know from the very beginning the you know I think that that understanding
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the kind of science behind it and the neuroscience neuroplasticity for me when I,
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started to learn all about this kind of stuff.
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Almost there's so many, we can have so many stories around alcohol,
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our personal narratives around alcohol, why we drank, why we drink, what you do.
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It becomes, it feels incredibly personal, which it is.
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And there's something about understanding the science, the just the facts and
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the, you know, the inspiring,
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optimistic reality of neuroplasticity that I feel really helps to just cut through
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that personal narrative and just sort of cuts through shame.
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It cuts through, it brings understanding, it shines a knowledgeable light on it.
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So I'm not like this bad person or this failure because I've,
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you know, went to alcohol, this very culturally normative substance to manage
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whatever it was, the stress or,
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you know, whatever, and then became a problem.
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I feel like there's it that kind of scientific lens really enables a lot of
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rightly placed compassion actually so I love that you're kicking off with that
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and then providing such resources for people because it sounds like that's it
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again it's like okay so what do we do what do we use.
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If we used alcohol as a maladaptive resource what resources do we need and it
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just sounds like this wider variety of topics that is going to be so, so helpful for people.
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Yeah. I mean, it's, it's, you have to have those tools, right?
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You have to have all these tools to tap into. And I talk a lot about building
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your sober toolbox because, you know,
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Not every tool is going to be the same for everybody and not every tool is going
10:12
to be the same for every moment in your journey either.
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So we have to have a bunch of tools in our toolbox to tap into when that moment hits, right?
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Whether it be the stress, right? That is inevitable in life,
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but we have to have different coping mechanisms.
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Our go-to has always been alcohol and it's because it's easy.
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It is the easy thing to do is just grab alcohol.
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Nobody wants to feel these hard feelings. Nobody wants to go through the hard
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moments, but you come out, you build up that emotional sobriety,
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that emotional resilience over
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time by using these tools where those hard things in life become easier.
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It doesn't mean they go away, but they become easier to deal with when you have the right tools.
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Yeah. And it just, it's about building that sober toolbox. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely.
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Yeah. And we have a lot of fun during it too. So, I mean, old school,
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we play a little bit of bingo, right, to keep people engaged and we have tons of fun giveaways.
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And we have a digital goodie bag that I work with a lot of different brands
11:13
in the industry and to have exclusive discounts to different products and services.
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And it's a community, too. You know, you find a lot of people who just you can
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resonate with their own stories.
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So people start sharing, you know, attendees start sharing like,
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gosh, I really resonated with this interview or this person or I've been dealing with this.
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And you always can find somebody in this community that understands where you're
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at in your journey and can help be there to support you and cheer you on.
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And that's what I love about this community. It's just such a positive,
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giving, supportive community. Yeah, it is. It's important to find that.
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Yeah. And we were talking on the retreat, reminds me, I host them with my yoga
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teacher, amazing yoga teacher called Bryony.
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And she was saying whenever we come together and we do a love sober event she just finds it.
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Just incredibly inspiring to to be
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working with women who are on a self-development journey
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who are who are very plugged in very mindful yeah
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and and I also it sort of feels like
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being part of the sober community you kind of I kind of
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take that for granted now I kind of feel like everyone's like really
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do you know what I mean like these really cool kind
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of wise kind of reflective funny people you know I think we get we get quite
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spoiled in the same community yeah it's amazing it's amazing and you know what
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you you nailed it on the head it's a self-development journey that's what it
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turns into so like the alcohol is just that first like.
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Layer of the onion that you peel off and then it opens
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up the door to so much more and you're going oh this is
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what truly living means this is like showing up trying to
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be the best version of myself and what can I
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do more of how can I learn and grow and when you tap
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into that sober community you're finding people who are
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also wanting to learn grow with you and
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that's really I mean that's where the magic happens I think
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yeah and feel better like who knew
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that we could feel better more regulated better
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happier just brighter the
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problems you can tackle easier i mean
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it's like you know who knew basically and that's
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why i love the fact that you're doing such a big kind
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of global event with the cyber summit keep
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spreading that positive message yeah thank you
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i mean it's we're trying to normalize the term sober too
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right i think it's such a bad label right
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right i don't I always was afraid of using the
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term sober but sober summit just sounded so great I'm
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like I have to use it and so you got it two s's
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we've got a little bit of alliteration there right but it's
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about normalizing that term and making it okay to make
13:58
this life choice right it's okay to decide that you
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want to do something better for yourself and we live in this world where
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you know we've been shaming people for doing something
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good for themselves like that's not okay and we
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need to now you know make it okay to make this life choice because it is the.
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Best one anyone can make for themselves yeah 100 100 so what about you should.
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We hear a little bit about your story and how you came to make the brilliant
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decision to go alcohol free and as we know.
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In an alcohol, you know, I mean, I'm making assumptions, but for me,
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I know that sort of getting across to people, even though I didn't need to explain
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it, but yeah, hello, I did a podcast where I constantly explained it.
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But it was that sort of, we generally have a bumpy, a little bit of a bumpy
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ride, because if we're going to disengage with something that is so culturally
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normative, there's going to be a story.
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So I'm wondering if that is the case for you and if you would share that story with us.
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Yes, of course. And you're right. I mean, I tell, you know, people who can decide
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one day that they're going to be alcohol free and do it. Those are unicorns,
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right? It is a bumpy journey.
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It is a roller coaster of up and down and trying and failing and learning and
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growing, right? That's part of the journey.
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And so for me, you know, wine was, I really thought I was a sophisticated drinker
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because I had stopped in after college.
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I'd stopped drinking, you know, hard liquor and beer and I had moved on to wine
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and I was very much felt like I was a sophisticated grown up,
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right? And that I was, I was okay.
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I wasn't bad because I wasn't, you know, binge drinking and I wasn't belling
15:43
up to the bar with the boys anymore.
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You know, that was like the college Maggie. And now I'd moved on to the sophisticated Maggie.
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My dad had, we lived in Washington state. My dad had a vineyard in our front
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yard. And so he started making wine and I got very into the wine industry.
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And for years, even after college, I'd wished I'd gone into the wine industry.
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And I'm now so grateful that I didn't because I think I really would have had
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a problem had I gone that route. But I loved learning about wine.
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I loved going to wine stores and tasting wine and reading labels.
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It's almost like for me, it was like being at a good bookstore,
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right? Going around and finding different wines and tasting them and.
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I wasn't good at it, but I was good at drinking. I wasn't like one of those
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people who could be like, oh, it tastes like cherry and apple.
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You know, I wasn't one of those.
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But I did enjoy the process. I loved the romantic part of, you know, drinking wine.
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And it was part of, I felt like it was part of me.
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And, you know, with motherhood, I think no one can really prepare you for motherhood.
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I have three kids and I fell very hard into mommy wine culture where we were
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kind of told that you needed you needed alcohol to kind of get through parenting.
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And, you know, play dates had alcohol, baptisms, birthday parties.
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Right. Everything had alcohol and it kind of just bought into it.
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I had the tea towels and the signs and I laughed about it.
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Right. It was kind of funny to have the glass that said mommy wine, mommy juice. Right.
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Like I was laughing about it or the rosé all day T-shirt.
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Like I had that and I flaunted it and I thought it was funny.
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And then I just felt very stuck after I had my third daughter.
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So I have two girls and a boy. And we lived in a town where we weren't near
17:31
family at all. And so it was just me and my husband.
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And it was really hard. No support.
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Three kids. I had three kids under the age of four. And so life was really busy.
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And then COVID hit and that didn't help. And I think with COVID, it went two ways.
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There was either people who were social drinkers who now were stuck at home
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and just didn't drink at all.
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And then there were people who ramped up their drinking because it was a very
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stressful, unfamiliar and unknowing time where we didn't know what was going
18:00
to happen. And it was a really perfect excuse to drink.
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And so I... The routines went out of the window. Out the window, yeah.
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Yeah. So all of a sudden that five o'clock, you know, five o'clock anywhere
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kind of turned into four o'clock and then three.
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But I was getting wine delivered to my house and thinking it was the best thing
18:20
ever that now I didn't have to go anywhere.
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I could have wine, cases of wine delivered.
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And, you know, during this time, I just felt really stuck, but I don't know
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what it was or why this happened,
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but I started recognizing my behavior with wine in that I started getting very territorial over it.
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So if my husband and I opened up a bottle of wine, I would have to make sure
18:44
that I got my fair share of that.
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And I would start getting very irritated or annoyed or snap at him if,
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God forbid, he drank more than, like, had some of my fair share.
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I would get really mad at him.
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Like, gosh, that's not like, that's so weird to get mad at someone over that.
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And I just started getting, you know, a territorial is the best word to describe it.
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I just needed to have it. I couldn't do a night without it.
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So, you know, in the early days, you start making these rules for yourself.
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Like, okay, I want to cut back. I'm not going to drink during the week.
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And Monday afternoon would roll around and you go, okay, I need it, right? Like I'm done.
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Today was too stressful or we're having Italian or it's cold outside or we would,
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I'd make up so. There's a cloud.
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Yes. Anything, right? Any excuse.
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And again, I noticed that. I noticed that I couldn't go without drinking.
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And there was one particular night where I was upstairs bathing my kids and
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I could hear my husband pop the wine cork and it went pop.
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And my blood pressure just started
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boiling and I got really anxious and I said, I got to get downstairs.
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We got to hurry up, get the kids out of the bath, get them dressed,
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get them done. I got to go downstairs just drinking without me and I'm missing out.
20:07
And I all of a sudden froze and was like, whoa, that is not a good relationship
20:12
with wine, with alcohol.
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I realized in that moment how much of a hold it had over me.
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So like a lot of people, I started reading the books and I did.
20:27
I read Annie Grace's book and it worked right it was
20:30
amazing it worked the day I put it down was
20:33
the day I stopped until you know
20:36
we went on vacation a few months later and this
20:39
kind of back and forth went because if you're not continuing to do the work
20:42
right you don't have that messaging of why you're doing it in the first place
20:48
you don't have that constant okay this is this is why I'm doing this and so
20:54
it's very easy to go back and say, well, I can moderate now or well,
20:58
my drinking wasn't that bad. Right.
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Yeah. And so I had a lot of ups and downs. And then you just get sick of tired of being sick and tired.
21:07
And it took a couple of years. But eventually I just decided to stop finding
21:13
excuses to drink and start finding excuses not to drink.
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And so it was Easter in 2022. I was at Easter masks and,
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The priest had said something along the lines of Easter being about new beginnings.
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I thought, oh, this is great. This is a new beginning, right?
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Like I could use this as my excuse to start this alcohol-free journey.
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And that's what did it for me. I mean, not that it was that easy,
21:41
but that was that spark of like, I need to start finding excuses to not drink
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instead of excuses to drink.
21:48
And so I did a 100-day challenge.
21:52
And in that challenge I felt the
21:55
benefits of living an alcohol-free life and decided
21:58
to keep going and then six months into my
22:01
journey you know I was still reading the books listening to the podcasts and
22:05
I was attending a lot of I was always into health and nutrition and I was attending
22:09
a lot of health and nutrition summits in the space and I thought gosh I gotta
22:13
go find the one on alcohol because I could really use that like I want to continue
22:16
learning and growing and I couldn't find one.
22:19
So I thought, gosh, this is a really good opportunity. There should be something
22:23
out there called the Sober Summit, you know?
22:25
And so I pitched the idea to a few podcasters and they politely declined.
22:30
They're like, we don't really know what a summit is, like not sure what that
22:34
is or how to do it, but we'll be speakers if you want to put it together.
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And I thought, there's no way I can put this together. I'm nobody in this space.
22:42
I'm not an author a podcaster an influencer.
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I'm just a mom of three living in Virginia And then I heard a podcast about
22:50
somebody who had done who had run a marathon And you know after getting sober
22:56
this she was not a runner.
22:58
She this was she was that was not her thing But she did it i'm going gosh,
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there are people out there who are running marathons writing books You know
23:06
changing jobs doing big things in this space like maybe this is my mount everest
23:11
Maybe this is the thing that's really hard to do and pushes me outside my comfort zone.
23:16
But, you know, that's what sobriety is all about is it's the things that push
23:21
you outside your comfort zone.
23:22
And in sobriety, you say, I can do that. Yes, it will be hard.
23:27
But let me at least try. Whereas when I was drinking, that would always be something
23:31
I would say I do and then never do, right?
23:33
Like you just, when you're around everyone drinking, you're like,
23:36
oh yeah, I would love to do that. And it never happened.
23:40
Yeah. Or we say in England, all mouth and no trousers. Oh, I love that.
23:45
I love that. All mouth and no trousers. Yeah.
23:49
I mean, that's exactly what it was. And so I decided to try.
23:53
And once I started getting some really big speakers like William Porter and
23:57
Annie Grace and Casey McGuire-McDavidson and William Porter, Andy Ramage.
24:04
I'm probably missing so many amazing speakers, but I thought,
24:08
gosh, I really have to do this thing. I actually thought, oh, shoot, I have to know.
24:14
What have I done? So we had our first one in April 2023 and we had over 5,000
24:20
people attend And it was just incredible and so inspiring. And the emails that
24:25
I got from people that were just like, this is what I needed at this time.
24:28
This couldn't have been better timing. This was amazing. This changed my life.
24:33
I mean, that's why I do it is, you know, twofold, one for them and one for me, right?
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Like I do it to keep me in this journey and to learn and grow.
24:44
And then two, to help inspire other people and let other people know that it's
24:48
okay to choose an alcohol-free life.
24:50
You don't have to wait to hit rock bottom by the way you know
24:53
that's that's not what the message is the message is it's okay to choose an
24:58
alcohol yeah and i totally it's something that i've always felt very very passionate
25:02
about since i stopped stopped drinking because i felt like there was not that
25:06
message there was not that message in the uk here like 10 years ago there was not and.
25:13
It's saying so in a in a way it's like you there was just this message that
25:18
you yeah have to hit rock bottom all the wheels off the wagon because otherwise
25:22
why would you do this crazy thing and
25:26
it's like actually there are a lot of women who are
25:29
questioning and it's an absolute I
25:32
think it's criminal to have that message that they need
25:35
to wait till they're much much worse before we we
25:38
act and so the message that
25:41
this that it's you it's a hell of a
25:44
lot better to stop when you've got some agency there
25:47
than when you've lost agency and we know that it goes in one direction right
25:52
so and that could take years but it might not it's i think it's very unpredictable
25:57
so if we can ever kind of like really ramp up that message that because i i
26:03
thought there was this And there was this narrative that,
26:07
yeah, you've got to hit rock bottom.
26:09
And it's like, well, who, who's, sorry, who says that? And what is that? What is that elusive?
26:14
And that what, will I feel sudden clarity? And it was like, actually,
26:18
I think that's a dangerous message.
26:20
Yeah. I mean, we constantly promote alcohol. We constantly give alcohol so many hats, right?
26:29
It's the thing we turn to for comfort and celebration and, I mean, every emotion, right?
26:35
It's like, oh, drink to it. And we give alcohol so much of the.
26:42
We just put it on a pedestal is the best way to say that.
26:46
And, you know, oftentimes when I'm talking to clients or, you know,
26:49
they'll say, well, I can't go on vacation without it.
26:52
Why? Why can't you? Because you're, you know, you're in the Caribbean,
26:56
you're with your family, you're not working.
26:58
Like, really, you're going to give all the credit to alcohol? like don't
27:01
don't give alcohol so much credit over your life
27:04
and that's what i find that we we're constantly doing is
27:07
too much credit yeah and
27:11
what a and what a relief when you get
27:15
you know you've got some sober time and you realize you can
27:18
still go on holiday you can be the last one dancing at
27:20
a party you can opt out of the party if you don't feel
27:23
like it and nothing bad will happen you know it's like the
27:27
the sort of the sequential and repetitive sort
27:30
of relief of kind of reclaiming oh I
27:34
put alcohol on the pedestal there it's knocked like constantly
27:37
and then that was it was really important in that situation for me and now it's
27:41
not it's like you know I feel like it I'm getting this image for myself of just
27:46
kind of keep on uncovering the kind of superwoman yeah like you know what I
27:52
mean I'm like I need a cape for now no, I really need a cape.
27:55
I do. I feel like I have a superpower, you know?
27:59
Absolutely. I feel like this is a superpower. And that was part of it when I
28:03
got far enough into my journey and wanted to, I think a lot of us do,
28:07
we turn around and go, I need to now tell other people because I feel like I have a superpower.
28:13
And all these women who are like me, who are falling into this mommy wine culture,
28:18
or even just all parents who are just using alcohol as a coping mechanism,
28:23
there's a much better way. There's so many like that.
28:26
It's just bull crap.
28:29
I don't know what does it end up there, but you know what I mean?
28:31
Like we, we, we do, we give it too much credit and we tell in,
28:36
in society, we tell people that this is, you have to have this in order to do
28:41
X, Y, Z. And that's just not the case.
28:44
Being sober is what gives you that life that you want.
28:47
Yeah. I love that so what do you what are the kind of practices that you do
28:53
I know you've talked about working in the sober space is keeping you grounded
28:57
in the sober space and your sobriety what other.
29:02
Practices keep you sober would you say.
29:06
Yeah, so I really, I, one is constantly being in it, like you said,
29:10
reading the books, listening to the podcasts, being part of the community.
29:15
But really, I, I found that getting back to the basics is what has really helped me.
29:20
So making sure that I'm sleeping, right?
29:23
And I think sleep is one of the big benefits that happen. Once you remove alcohol,
29:28
you realize, oh, gosh, my sleep is so good.
29:29
It was one of the reasons I never wanted to go back. I'm like, my sleep is too good.
29:33
I don't want to go back. But so sleep, movement, so exercising.
29:38
I now exercise for my mental health, not necessarily for the way I physically
29:45
look, but just because I can tell the difference from when I am exercising and when I'm not.
29:50
My days are different when I show up for myself.
29:53
And do I want to do it all the time? No. But I do it because I know it's going
29:58
to set me up for a better day if I do.
30:00
And then nutrition is a really big one so just
30:04
you know making sure i'm not putting i think once you remove alcohol
30:07
you oftentimes think okay what else am i putting in my
30:10
body that's not great right if alcohol is this toxin like
30:12
what else am i putting in my body that isn't good for me and so that's been
30:17
a big one of just like getting back to good nutrition and making sure i'm putting
30:22
things in that fuel me and don't you know run me down and then mindfulness so
30:28
being grateful for little things that happen.
30:31
And I think when we remove alcohol, we oftentimes see the world a bit differently.
30:36
I see it now so much more through my kids' eyes than I did before.
30:41
You know, they get really excited about really little things.
30:44
And now I get excited about those really little things too now because I can
30:48
appreciate them now because I see them for what they are now.
30:51
Whereas before I was just like, yeah, yeah, that's great. That's,
30:54
you know, the sunset, whatever.
30:56
And I'm like, oh my gosh, yes, that looks amazing. Or, you know,
30:59
look at that animal we see or, you know, that cool thing.
31:02
It just, you see the world in like this techno color now.
31:06
And so being mindful, too, about how I'm showing up in this world.
31:11
So the self-awareness that I've gotten from being sober is just like the greatest
31:18
gift and understanding how I can show up as my best self for me and for my husband and for my kids.
31:25
And it feels really good to do that. And so I really get back to the basics.
31:30
And I know that when I show up for myself in those ways, I can do anything, right?
31:37
And that's what helps me is just getting back to the basics.
31:40
And sometimes I think when we feel stuck in our alcohol-free journey,
31:44
it's because we're not focusing on just the things that help us regulate our
31:48
nervous system. Those four things will help you regulate your nervous system.
31:52
And those are the things that will keep cravings down.
31:55
They'll help you manage triggers better because we live in a stressful environment
31:59
and we need we need other coping mechanisms other than alcohol.
32:04
Yeah yeah yeah I love that I and I really
32:07
yeah I got that sense then when you were talking about the
32:10
sort of it was like um a you know a
32:13
house and you've got to have the foundation so the first
32:16
layer being sobriety and then you've got
32:18
the real bricks and mortar of the building which
32:22
have to also be stable you know the
32:25
movement the nutrition you know the sleep
32:28
and like you said some kind of mindfulness
32:32
bringing us back to the present being bringing us back to the present and then
32:36
it's like when we've got those it's like the soft furnishings take care of themselves
32:41
we can add a flourish here we can go for an awe experience or you know this
32:46
but those those allow for the.
32:50
For the other stuff to be there the kind of fancy bits
32:53
almost yeah and and I think
32:56
in doing that too it's the reason ultimate reason
32:59
why I chose to do this was my kids right I was
33:02
watching my daughter who was four at the
33:05
time four or five you know bring me a bottle of wine at night
33:08
and I'm going oh no right like I don't want her growing up thinking this is
33:12
what you do as an adult this is how you deal with your day or your emotion and
33:17
so I've been learning you know in the last three years of my sobriety just learning
33:22
the coping skills and then being able to teach it to my kids And it starts with,
33:27
you know, that mindfulness is huge and understanding what you need in a moment, right?
33:32
And that things will pass. There's a perspective, isn't there,
33:36
that who knew that cravings passed if we've got some chores or in the early
33:40
days for me, it's very much distraction. It was almost like external resources.
33:46
So, you know, I was getting my dopamine from, you know, I'd buy a new lipstick.
33:50
I was like, need a soap treat, need a soap treat.
33:53
I have ADHD. So dopamine is a big one for me. and I'm,
33:57
And now I'm sort of more like, you know, I might lift. I've just started lifting
34:01
weights. It's very new. I'm like, now I get it, lifting weights.
34:05
No, you don't, Kate. You literally started yesterday doing weights.
34:09
You're like, you know, I just started last October and I love it.
34:13
And it's amazing when you just show up for yourself in that way.
34:18
It's funny when time passes, you look by a couple months later and you're like,
34:21
oh, I've got a bicep. That's amazing.
34:25
Just the one. Yeah, just the one.
34:28
Amazing it's like it's the consistency it's just
34:31
not for yourself how do you want to show up for yourself every
34:34
day yeah and do you want to show up tired and impatient
34:37
and irritable and grumpy no i i was sick
34:40
of showing up that way that's what alcohol was doing for me i
34:42
was showing up in a way that i didn't want to that didn't
34:45
align with my values didn't align with my authentic self and
34:49
that was really tough so doing these things well they're
34:52
not always fun right like lifting weights is hard but when
34:56
you do it you feel really good about yourself and how you're showing
34:58
up for other people yeah yeah and
35:02
I I love that I often have I have a saying which
35:06
it's still true sometimes it's still
35:08
true if I have a really you know like things
35:11
go think chaos you know
35:14
rains at home like sometimes it does and it's
35:17
I am sober and the rest is good enough and I
35:20
still come back to that I'm like if my head hits
35:23
the pillow at night and everything else.
35:26
Has been a shit show I'm like I'm still sober
35:29
so hello me I give myself those props
35:32
for that you know and it helps me to
35:35
lower the kind of bar to a
35:38
more realistic way more compassionate way with myself whereas
35:41
when I was drinking I was always trying to I remember having
35:44
this awful time I've said this on the podcast before but this
35:48
is like a real example of how all over the place I could be when I was drinking
35:55
so I'd managed to get the kids it's when they were really small so I managed
35:59
to get child care which was no mean feat my husband was working in London still
36:03
on the newspapers where we used to work.
36:06
And I was going to a funeral which was a long drive the next day a friend came
36:11
over so I decided to drink far too much wine, then I realized there was also
36:16
something for the PTA that I'd had to bake cupcakes.
36:19
So I was making cupcakes at midnight, not able to sleep, and then having this
36:24
awful drive to a funeral the next day.
36:27
And I had a really bad panic attack on the motorway. I think you call them freeways. Yeah.
36:32
And it was just so, because I felt bad about drinking, I was trying to do all
36:40
of this other stuff to prove that I was still had my stuff together.
36:45
And it was like, oh my God, like I had it so back to front, you know,
36:49
and it was, yeah, when I look back to that and that, that kind of version of
36:54
what I was doing, I feel very, I feel very sorry for myself actually.
36:58
Cause I was like, that was really not good. That was not, that was not happy Kate.
37:02
Yeah. And it probably didn't, I mean, it doesn't help with, with life,
37:07
with parenting, with anything, right? Like you just, it makes it harder.
37:12
It makes life harder. And we think it makes it easier, right?
37:15
We think we're hitting the easy button and maybe we are for the first 20 minutes,
37:18
but long-term it's, it's making life harder.
37:21
For sure no so so is yeah
37:24
so so we've talked about kind
37:27
of your your kind of your journey to to sobriety
37:31
and also what you do to sort of
37:33
stay sober what would you say that are the things that make you and again I
37:42
think we've almost covered it but if there was something extra that that you
37:45
that you've discovered in your sobriety that really really lights you up what would that be.
37:52
Oh, gosh, that's such a great question. Things that light me up.
37:55
I think it's, to be honest, and I don't want this to sound vain or anything,
38:00
but I think being a lighthouse for other people.
38:03
I think that when I can just help inspire somebody by just being me,
38:09
gosh, that lights me up, right?
38:11
Because I'm not trying to be something or somebody I'm not.
38:16
And in sobriety, I'm showing up as the most authentic version of myself.
38:21
Is it the best version of myself at all times? No. But am I striving for that? Yes.
38:26
And I think if we can live in this world where everyone's striving to be the
38:29
best versions of their self, what a wonderful world that would be.
38:33
Like, how can we help inspire each other and help each other grow as human beings?
38:38
And, you know, it doesn't have to be something really big, like even writing
38:42
a book or having a podcast or, right?
38:44
It's just showing up as you in this world. and, you know, for your friends,
38:50
your family, your neighbors.
38:51
And, you know, they start to notice, not right away maybe, but,
38:55
you know, three years in, I now have people coming up to me going,
38:59
okay, tell me what you're doing.
39:01
Tell me how you're doing it because I've been watching you, right?
39:05
I've been lurking and I'm interested.
39:08
And I think there's a lot of people out there that if they're really honest
39:11
with themselves, they're probably questioning the relationship with alcohol.
39:15
And showing someone the benefits and
39:19
showing someone the other side of it that just that does
39:21
light me up and it's it's again selfish yes
39:25
but also you know I I want this world
39:28
to be a better place and I want to help impact this world
39:31
in a positive way and I think if we
39:34
could if we can show people that alcohol is hurting us more than helping us
39:39
I think we could be in a really good place in 10 years if we can kind of flip
39:44
the script yeah yeah yeah oh yeah I found that quite moving then and thank you for for sharing that.
39:53
And, yeah, you know, when you were saying about kind of showing up as ourselves,
39:58
yeah, it's almost that kind of the most obvious thing that we should be doing.
40:02
It's like, who else are you going to be showing up as? Oh, actually,
40:06
the layers of kind of masking that we do and hiding.
40:11
And especially when, you know, we've got something like, you know,
40:15
it feels like a bad, you know, like this bad secret, like we know that it's
40:18
a problem, but there's no one talking about it and da, da, da, da, da.
40:22
Yeah once you get that out of the way there's such a freedom isn't there and
40:27
I don't think it doesn't come across as egotistical at all it comes across as
40:32
really generous because,
40:34
it's like that Brene Brown thing you know it's like being
40:36
vulnerable and showing people who we
40:40
are and then we can kind of touch each other
40:43
can't we we can you know we get that real
40:45
sense of well it's belonging rather than
40:48
fitting in I think right and you I mean
40:51
you said it right there that masking like I didn't think I
40:54
was doing that because I wasn't it to
40:57
anybody else it wasn't problematic right and
41:00
I still get friends and family who don't quite understand why
41:03
I gave up alcohol right but it was a problem for me
41:06
so it's a really personal choice where you have
41:09
to make that decision of is alcohol benefiting my
41:12
life anymore or is it taking things away
41:15
from me and you know only you can answer
41:18
that but if you don't give yourself the ability
41:22
to just try and that's what what really did
41:24
it for me i thought i'm going to do a hundred day challenge and i'm
41:28
going to actually give myself that freedom and see what it's like and then i
41:32
can always decide to go back but we have to give ourselves enough time to find
41:37
that freedom and then make that decision of whether life is better with or without
41:41
a weekend right even a month i love the the, you know.
41:46
Sober Octobers and the dry Januaries, but give yourself more time.
41:50
Give yourself that time to really truly see what life is like without it.
41:53
And then, and then make that decision for you.
41:56
Yeah. And just before we finish, what are your top three resources,
42:02
would you say for someone who's really questioning on the fence? Do I, don't I?
42:09
Yeah. So my top resource is one books, right?
42:12
So find the books that inspire you, from other people's stories that maybe you
42:17
could resonate with and educate yourself on what alcohol is and what it does to you, right?
42:23
I think once I found out what that was, like what it physically was doing to
42:26
my anxiety, my, right, my, my liver, like right from both a mental and physical
42:33
perspective, understand what alcohol is.
42:36
I think we, we kind of sweep it under the rug. We don't even want to know,
42:40
so we don't, but find out.
42:42
And, and then listening to podcasts, I think is such an easy way. I mean, I...
42:48
I depended on those so much in the early days that whenever I felt triggered
42:52
or felt like a craving, I would just grab my phone and my headphones and I would
42:57
go out for a walk and I would listen to it.
42:59
But I needed that constant messaging in my ear of why I was doing this because
43:03
this world is so, our culture and our society is so alcohol heavy that if you
43:09
start listening to that noise, it's easy to pull you back.
43:11
So you have to put your earbuds in and start listening to the messages that say sobriety is better.
43:18
And I had to keep hearing that message over and over again to rewire my brain,
43:22
to know that like that was what I wanted.
43:25
Deep down, I knew it, but I had to to get that there.
43:28
And then the community piece. So there are so many amazing communities out there.
43:32
Find one, even if you have to kind of do your speed dating and,
43:36
you know, try one here and there.
43:37
But there's so many amazing communities. And once you find people that are like-minded.
43:43
It is, you realize you're not alone in this journey.
43:46
And it's something that can really, I think for the people who try to do it
43:49
themselves, I often see that they get stuck.
43:53
But when they come back and they do it with community, that's when it really clicks for them.
43:57
So I would say books podcasts and community
44:00
are the three things that and then I guess
44:03
I want to add a fourth and that's just learn other coping mechanisms of
44:07
you know find other things that you like to do to regulate
44:10
your nervous system because life will get lifey and
44:13
we need to find those things so one of my favorite thing is just turn on some
44:17
music and start dancing with my kids I just you know that pulls me right out
44:21
it's like or give myself a timeout like it's okay to give yourself this you
44:25
know tell my husband i need five minutes i just need to go upstairs and take
44:28
a breather so you got to learn other coping skills yeah.
44:33
Great. That's a great, great tip. Thank you so much, Maggie.
44:37
It's just been so lovely talking to you today.
44:39
Thank you so much for having me, Kate. I love what you're doing in this space.
44:43
So keep doing it. It's so wonderful to meet you. And thank you so much for having me.
44:48
Oh, yeah. Thanks so much. As I said, I'll post everything below about this Maggie's
44:54
fantastic online event, Sober Summer, which is coming up soon. Remind us of the dates.
44:59
April 23rd through 25th. So you can get your tickets now. But yeah,
45:03
it's going to be a lot of fun. So if you can join, join, please do.
45:06
And I'd love to see you there. Do they go to your website?
45:10
Yes, they can go to thesobersummit.com, get their free ticket.
45:14
And yeah, and if you, you know, feel like I love meeting people in this space.
45:18
So feel free to DM me on Instagram or email me at hello at thesobersummit.com.
45:23
I love me. It's one of my favorite things is to meet people space so
45:27
that's great yeah check out the sober summit absolutely
45:30
so and if you're immediately concerned about
45:33
your drinking do reach out there are
45:36
soberistas still has their ask the doctor service
45:40
there which is confidential and also
45:43
alcohol concern alcohol change actually
45:46
uk it's a fantastic resource that is doing the sober spring at the moment so
45:51
lots of great stuff out there and like maggie said like find a community find
45:57
a community that you vibe with there's lots of choice now which is awesome and
46:02
uh stay safe everyone i'll see you next time for more.
46:06
Music.