Latest / The Dr. Psych Mom Show with clinical psychologist Dr. Samantha Rodman Whiten / "Concern Trolling" or "I'm So Concerned About Why You're Not Like What I Would Prefer You To Be Like"

Transcript

"Concern Trolling" or "I'm So Concerned About Why You're Not Like What I Would Prefer You To Be Like" · The Dr. Psych Mom Show with clinical psychologist Dr. Samantha Rodman Whiten

• 0:05
  Hi everybody, and welcome to the doctor.
• 0:07
  Psych mom, show today, I'm going to talk about concern trolling,
• 0:12
  which is something that you may not know the term for, but
• 0:15
  you've likely experienced or possibly done yourself.
• 0:19
  And before we get to that and how pernicious it can be and how
• 0:23
  passive aggressive it is, I want to tell you to subscribe.
• 0:27
  My most recent episode is on female arousal and how arousal
• 0:31
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• 0:34
  can clear up. Some confusion that males may
• 0:37
  have when trying to discriminate between spontaneous and
• 0:40
  responsive desire and women, because men don't really have
• 0:44
  the same types of desire as at least as monogamous women as I
• 0:48
  have tried to make very clear. So if you subscribe, you get
• 0:53
  that one and about 71 think 71 other episodes.
• 0:58
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• 1:02
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• 1:06
  only paid for Ninety-Nine a month, Facebook group, or I get
• 1:10
  a lot of my podcast ideas. And I engage in that group a lot
• 1:13
  I make people videos or, you know, answer podcasts for them
• 1:18
  if they have questions. So that's probably something
• 1:21
  that you would like. If you've listened to this, many
• 1:22
  of my podcasts and no, you do not get that.
• 1:25
  If you subscribe on anchor to my you, you, you don't get the
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  podcast. If you subscribe to Facebook,
• 1:31
  you don't get the Facebook. If you subscribe to podcast,
• 1:34
  those are two different. Things.
• 1:36
  Okay. So anyway, what's concerned
• 1:38
  trolling, while concern trolling is, when somebody pretends that
• 1:41
  they care about you but in reality, they're just being
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  passive aggressive. So what would be an example?
• 1:47
  Like if you are young mother and your mother-in-law's like oh
• 1:53
  honey you know like you seem to like really be confused about
• 2:00
  like sleepin kids. So you know I'm just worried
• 2:04
  that maybe Be like you you don't know that kids need a bedtime,
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  you know. You're like shut up.
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  Like of course I know you know you know I know I know I know
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  you're just being nasty because you're trying to tell me that my
• 2:19
  kid should have a different bedtime.
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  Another one that I see all the time is when a man points out or
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  a woman, I see it actually more women do this than men.
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  Men are too scared to do this the most of the time that Woman.
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  I'll be like, I'm just really worried about my husband's
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  Health, it like in terms of him being overweight.
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  So, you know, I always say to him like honey, I think he would
• 2:45
  feel so much better if you dropped 40 pounds.
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  I'm like it to have like what? Like you know, you know.
• 2:52
  Like okay. Yeah.
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  But like that's not why you're bringing it up.
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  He does probably if I interrogate you like 1 million
• 2:59
  other dangerous, things that are likelier to kill him that you
• 3:03
  don't care as much about because you Want him to look different.
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  Like that's a you thing. You're just not being honest
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  about it. Like have you had him go for
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  like a colonoscopy after hitting age?
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  45 do you haven't go? Get his prostate exam?
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  Do you? You know?
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  Like, do you have him put on sunscreen every second?
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  I mean, if you truly are like a complete control freak in terms
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  of every aspect of his health and well-being, then cool you
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  win, but most women are not but then the ones that bother them
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  and particular, they'll mention same for men, right?
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  So, That is a man, do concern trolling.
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  Like all, like I read this article, it says, the people who
• 3:40
  have more sex or happier. Yeah.
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  You, you would be happier. You know what?
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  She she ain't going to be happier.
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  Like, probably like she's the one who decides that she wants
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  to do it. So, so concern trolling is, and,
• 3:54
  and the reason that I was gonna, it's interesting.
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  I was gonna do it anyway, but it's so funny because I got this
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  comment on my Facebook where I posted this me.
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  Mmmmm, where was like, two kittens and one of them had,
• 4:07
  like, really, the eyes were drawn on very, you know, how
• 4:11
  some cats look like they're wearing eyeliner, and then one
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  was like a cat with its eyes, half open.
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  And so I said, like something like a LOL, this is me or
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  something. And then somebody's like, oh,
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  like if you're worried about like how you look like you're
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  right. Like you could use a makeup
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  consult and that would just let your beauty shine even more.
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  It's like shut up. And I did a funny video with my
• 4:36
  gecko about it. If you want to follow me on Tick
• 4:38
  Tock. You could see my response video
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  to that concern trolling. Like the only appropriate thing
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  to say in that situation is LOL or like what every other woman
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  said, which was Haha me to like, if you're like, oh my God.
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  I'm so concerned about your potentially not being as
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  attractive as you could be like gimme a Break Earl.
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  You know. Like that is not real.
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  That's concerned trolling. So why do people do Controlling.
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  Well, it's really linked to this idea of adding value that I
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  brought up a lot and The Devil's Advocate posts and podcasts.
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  So there's some people have low self-esteem and the way that
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  they engage in the world is they try to add value to other people
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  and or they try. They have like a, an identity
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  based on being nice in quotes. So they won't let themselves say
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  anything honest. That isn't nice to have to frame
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  it in this quote, nice way. So the Mother-in-law on that
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  situation has the side Give herself as a very helpful woman
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  who is really helping her daughter-in-law figure out
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  parenting right. When in reality, she just been
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  really undermining and passive aggressive but she has a
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  self-conception as did likely the woman that commented for me
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  of being very helpful and nice. And like, people like, this are
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  always more concerned about others, and they are about
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  themselves, you know, it's very, very convenient to look outward
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  and judge others than to look inward.
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  And so like, for example, like the again the woman with her
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  husband's wait like she's not like how am I a perfect partner.
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  Fuck no. Like look at all this shit.
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  I do number one of which is on passive aggressive you know.
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  But like do I look like fucking awesome?
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  You know like is anybody like do I get stopped on the street by
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  talent scouts who want like a MILF model?
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  No. So calm down, you know, but like
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  nobody really it's a lot more convenient to like look at the
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  other person. And and it goes along with this
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  self-conception of being quote, nice.
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  If you frame it in this way, that instead of just being
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  directly, aggressive is passive aggressive because people seem
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  to like passive aggressive better if they've been raised to
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  be polite but in reality, it's all about you.
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  It doesn't if ever help the other person.
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  So if you're thinking well gee like how how would that woman
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  say it to her husband while also being nice?
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  Well, there's no way. A.
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  I mean, like you can say if you are if you are genuinely, first
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  of all, like, I mean, we could take this so many ways about
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  let's pretend I'm working with you in real counseling, right?
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  So then we can go as deep as possible just for like, five
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  minutes. So, first of all, are you being
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  the spouse that you want to be. Like, is this like, are you
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  being like overall, kind loving like, nobody's going to say?
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  Yes. Because at the time where like,
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  you know, it matters to you this much.
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  And or your husband is so depressed that he has put on 50
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  pounds. The marriage is not going well,
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  right? So first of all, like look
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  Inward and work on everything that you can work on before you
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  turn around and criticize. Somebody else.
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  Second of all, are you being loving and supportive?
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  In other regards? Are you just like telling your
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  husband like, hey why don't you go like lose some weight, go to
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  the gym but like the thing, the guys really been saying all
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  these years is like I want more affection and you're just been
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  shoving that one under the Shrug, you know, maybe listen to
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  the stuff that actually might make him happier that he talks
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  about. You know, also like why not just
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  be honest and then risk being thought of as a bitch, right?
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  At least you're being honest and so you aren't going to make the
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  other person feel gross because you're like like vomiting
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  passive aggression on them or concern troll it so say I'm not
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  as attracted to you when you're overweight.
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  I'm you just put it out there like if that is your truth.
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  Give the person, the full information.
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  And what that does is two things, a you no longer being
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  passive-aggressive, there's no crazy-making.
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  So, your husband is in trying to, like, figure out what you
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  mean. Are you really worried about the
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  health? What's going on?
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  And your husband may decide, he doesn't want to be with you.
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  And he may, he may be like, oh, that's a shallow thing to say.
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  I would be fine if she's you had gained 50 pounds myself.
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  I think I would I would Find when she looked like, crap, what
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  she was pregnant, I was fine with you look like crap, what
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  you went through menopause? Whatever.
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  You know, maybe this isn't the person I thought you was and
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  that would be totally fine. And this, of course, works in
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  the gender in versus well, you know, and I see it with a lot of
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  guys, they don't want to bring up to their wife.
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  For example, that they want the wife to act more slutty.
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  I use this word just descriptively is, I'm not slut
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  shaming my God, if anybody could be less of a slut shame, ER, but
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  they want the woman to be dressed more.
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  I honestly don't know. Synonym, slut.
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  In bed. So, but they don't want to be
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  the guy who says that, because they also want to be mr.
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  Chivalry. Mr. Good guy.
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  So then they say stuff like, I wouldn't be fun if like you
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  looked at like, oh, maybe we should look at different kind
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  of, of nightgowns together. So, the woman says, oh, that's
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  cute. I look up this little nightgown
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  with hearts on it, that makes her look 12, and the husband
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  doesn't like that, you know, but he can't, he doesn't want.
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  He doesn't want to like really old.
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  Own what he meets. He doesn't want to say, no, I
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  really want you to look pretty much like a prostitute in this
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  outfit. That's my preference, and I
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  would really like you to do it because then he's scared that
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  she's no longer going to think of him as a nice guy.
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  But if you don't take that risk to like own your shit then you
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  just come off like kind of smarmy and unclear and passive
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  aggressive and weird, you know, so like none of those are
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  attractive traits. So the point is the opposite of
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  Troll concern trolling is to just own what you think.
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  So like, for example on the comment like the woman could
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  have been like, I think you look ugly.
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  You know. And then like all these people
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  would have been like you being so mean like fuck you you know.
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  Like like I got a lot of followers now and and they would
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  have said that you know and then this person could be like huh
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  you know either like fuck y'all back and whatever or she might
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  have been like hmm I guess. That isn't the sort of thing
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  that one wants to say, if one wants to, you know, remain like
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  part of a community, you know? But if you like kind of slide in
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  the back door, you're like telling yourself in some way
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  that you are not saying the undermining thing that you're
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  really saying. And so concern trolling is kind
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  of Insidious because it's like, really a form of gaslighting.
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  And I'm not saying that the person whose control concern
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  trolling is doing it on purpose. They're not, they You wouldn't
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  lie think they're adding value and 100% they were raised by
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  somebody passive-aggressive who did the same thing because I
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  really want to drive this home. Like I feel like at this stage
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  of listening to my podcast, you just need to know 100% of the
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  time. If somebody does some fucked up
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  shit they were raised by someone who did the same thing.
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  I mean it's it's so obvious to meet whatever it is in your job.
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  That is so obvious that clients like never understand.
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  Let's say you are you are a badass Doctor, right?
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  And you come in, and the client says to you.
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  The thing is, is like, I don't really like to exercise and and
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  you're like, thinking, you're like exercise would transform
• 12:16
  your life, it would transform your health.
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  They would do so much. You know, that I did beyond
• 12:22
  anything that I could prescribe, why can't you just listen to me,
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  you know, and of course, that would be a new doctor.
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  That would think that most older doctors or in same situation as
• 12:30
  older people in any profession. They're like these fuckers
• 12:33
  aren't going to listen to me, so I better help them.
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  Best that I can, right? But the point is.
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  So let's say that you're a doctor that feeling of, oh my
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  God, I know this is true. 100% like no matter.
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  What do you think? I know that this would be good
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  for you. That is how I feel when people
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  are liking that. I don't think it has anything to
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  do with my upbringing. Trust me, if you respect me
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  after all these podcasts, it does, it does it does have to do
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  with your upbringing. And anyway, way that you act as
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  an automatic default has to do with something that you saw or
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  sometimes it's 180 degrees opposite of what you saw.
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  So the concern troll for example could have been raised by
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  somebody, extremely aggressive and outright insulting.
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  And so they still have that impulse to insult but they
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  figure it out like a different way to do it, so they can
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  convince themselves. They're not really insult it.
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  So it's but 100%. When there are things that make
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  you interpersonally ineffective or for Matter interpersonally
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  effective and they're like automatic ways that you respond
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  in the world. They 100%, I promise you come
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  from ways that you were trained to act how not everywhere else
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  would you learn them from, you know, it doesn't make any sense
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  like if you adopted a dog from the shelter and the dog knew how
• 13:56
  to shake hands as a trick. What are you going to think
• 13:59
  nobody train that dog to shake hands where do you crazy?
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  You know I mean you think that that dog just Just saw you and
• 14:05
  said that person needs a handshake.
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  I'm really gonna make this new owners Day by all of a sudden
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  shaking hand. No, they were trained to shake
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  his. This is what I tell people all
• 14:17
  the time. By the way, with them
• 14:19
  discussions about prior sex and sexual partners, and people
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  would be like, a lot of really know what my wife did before me.
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  I like, well, what about what you did with you at the
• 14:27
  beginning? Because that's what you did
• 14:29
  before you unless she did literally nothing and it was so
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  awkward and weird because it was extraordinary Narrowly obvious
• 14:35
  that she had never had sex before, which can be very
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  obvious if she did anything. If she did any special things,
• 14:44
  if she had any way of default engaging, she did it with the
• 14:47
  prior partner, no shit. And so if you can be an adult
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  and realize that been guess what, you can also, learn if
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  there's things, she liked in the previous relationship, sexual
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  relationship that you didn't do. So if you can open yourself up
• 15:02
  to the idea that people learn things, literally People learn
• 15:06
  things then it's like expands your horizons beyond the Beyond
• 15:11
  you can be like oh my God. So and so does this that must
• 15:14
  have been how they were raised. So and so does that, that must
• 15:18
  have been what they saw in their marriage.
• 15:19
  My wife acts like this, oh shit must have been in her upbringing
• 15:23
  and then Amplified by the relationship.
• 15:26
  She was in prior to me. Huh?
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  You know, and I'm defensively. Oh my God.
• 15:31
  Organisms learn. So anyway um back to
• 15:35
  Controlling, if you do this, stop, you know, try to be very
• 15:38
  honest and take the good with the bad own it.
• 15:40
  If you have some shit to say like the Mother-in-law, if she
• 15:44
  would like I believe you're wrong about bedtime, then her
• 15:47
  son might come in, who should have honestly been coming in
• 15:50
  anyway, but he might come in and be like, stop that, that's mean.
• 15:53
  Don't tell us where wrong about parenting.
• 15:55
  Stop telling us were wrong about bedtime, but she doesn't want to
• 15:58
  get that reprimand. So, instead, she kind of sneaks
• 16:01
  around the back door in some way that the daughter-in-law feels
• 16:04
  even In worse. And that, then the sun is kind
• 16:07
  of confused, as Mom trying to be nasty.
• 16:09
  Is she not as she trying to be critical?
• 16:11
  She not, then the couple gets into a fight about it, where
• 16:15
  she's like your mother so passive aggressive, and he's
• 16:16
  like, I don't know, maybe she is genuinely concerned about
• 16:20
  something, you know, confused about bedtime and whether you
• 16:23
  know what it is or whatever. I've heard, all these kind of
• 16:26
  conversations before and couples work.
• 16:28
  So anyway, I hope this was useful about the idea of concern
• 16:32
  trolling. And similarly adding You which I
• 16:36
  didn't get as much play during this episode, but you can go
• 16:39
  back to the Devil's, Advocate one.
• 16:41
  And if your partner does this, then you might want to even
• 16:44
  mention it. You might want to be like when
• 16:46
  you express concern to me like that, it doesn't really sound
• 16:50
  genuine so I don't really feel close to you.
• 16:54
  Is there a more direct way that you could tell me what you're
• 16:58
  thinking you know while risking that I may not like it because
• 17:02
  right now I feel like you're trying to manipulate Late and
• 17:05
  handle me. And I don't like it because I
• 17:07
  don't really the concern that you're expressing.
• 17:10
  It doesn't really sound genuine and that may be why I have never
• 17:15
  really responded. Well, so when you say wouldn't I
• 17:19
  like to go through? I like Marie kondo so much.
• 17:22
  Wouldn't I want to go through and Purge my underwear drawer
• 17:25
  because I would love to purge because I like to clean
• 17:29
  something tells me that somehow you want me to buy different
• 17:33
  underwear to put in. Instead, but you're not telling
• 17:37
  me directly. So all I end up thinking is why
• 17:39
  is this fucker? So obsessed with Marie, kondo
• 17:42
  and whether I would like it when he has never expressed any
• 17:45
  other, you know, even vague interest in a interior design
• 17:49
  phenomenon that I would enjoy, right, you know.
• 17:53
  And so, if people could relate to each other much more
• 17:56
  directly, it would really limit the amount of couples that I
• 18:00
  would have to see. And I love to see couples.
• 18:02
  Come on and see me. You know, I work in Pretty much
• 18:05
  all the states. But, but, but the point being
• 18:10
  you don't want to, if you don't have to spend the time and money
• 18:14
  on me, right? So try to act less like an
• 18:18
  indirect jerk. This could be a good place to
• 18:22
  end. It's a lot to focus on and to
• 18:24
  think about it to introspect about, or just pull up the next
• 18:28
  podcast. I mean, but if it were, if you
• 18:31
  were my best advice, its to sit and think for like a Kid or
• 18:35
  maybe take a couple notes during these podcasts, does you really
• 18:38
  getting the full effect? And it's like, can be somewhat
• 18:42
  of a, a vague approximation of what therapy might be like, you
• 18:46
  know, could either get you rolling ready to reach out for a
• 18:49
  therapist or hey in certain situations, it could replace it.
• 18:53
  Who knows. All right, I'll talk to you
• 18:55
  soon. Bye, bye.