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Understanding Income Guilt · She's On The Money

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Just before we get started, we'd like to acknowledge and
• 0:03
  Speaker 1: pay respect to Australia's Aboriginal and torrest Rate islander peoples.
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: They're the traditional custodians of the lands, the waterways and
• 0:10
  Speaker 1: the skies all across Australia. We thank you for sharing
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: and for caring for the land on which we are
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: able to learn. We pay respects to elders past and present,
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: and we share our friendship and our kindness.
• 0:22
  Speaker 2: She's on the Money, She's on the Money.
• 0:45
  Speaker 3: Hello, and welcome to She's on the Money, the podcast
• 0:48
  Speaker 3: for millennials who want financial freedom. My name is Georgia King,
• 0:52
  Speaker 3: and joining me for our first ever deep dive together
• 0:56
  Speaker 3: is the delightful Jessica Ricchie. Hello, Jr.
• 1:00
  Speaker 4: I'm good. You're right. We've both done them with V before.
• 1:03
  Speaker 2: We have.
• 1:04
  Speaker 5: Unfortunately, if you listened to Friday's episode, or if you
• 1:07
  Speaker 5: follow VD on Instagram, you'd know the voice is gone.
• 1:10
  Speaker 4: Gil can't speak, not a whisper of a word. And
• 1:13
  Speaker 4: so today you've got us.
• 1:15
  Speaker 3: You've got us, and like, don't worry, it's not a
• 1:17
  Speaker 3: financial advice episode. We're talking more about the psychology of
• 1:21
  Speaker 3: income guilt. Now, Jarek, This is a relatively new term,
• 1:25
  Speaker 3: but not a new experience. It can be a vague
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  Speaker 3: and difficult feeling to describe. It can be a reaction
• 1:32
  Speaker 3: to socioeconomic inequality, but it can also very often be
• 1:36
  Speaker 3: a result of your money story and your background.
• 1:38
  Speaker 5: One hundred percent and a while ago, we looked at
• 1:41
  Speaker 5: spending guilt and that episode really resonated with a lot
• 1:44
  Speaker 5: of people, so we thought that this might be something
• 1:46
  Speaker 5: good to accompany it, particularly after we spoke to a
• 1:49
  Speaker 5: money diarist recently where we touched on it and we
• 1:51
  Speaker 5: had some really really positive feedback and we were like,
• 1:54
  Speaker 5: oh my.
• 1:55
  Speaker 3: Gosh, it's not just us, yeah, everybody.
• 1:57
  Speaker 5: So we really drilled down on it in that episode
• 2:00
  Speaker 5: that guilt exists to tell us something about ourselves and
• 2:03
  Speaker 5: where we are. So it's kind of like the canary
• 2:06
  Speaker 5: and the mind shaft concept if you're familiar with that.
• 2:08
  Speaker 5: It's definitely not a healthy feeling to dwell in, unfortunately,
• 2:12
  Speaker 5: So it should be a catalyst instead of resonating in
• 2:15
  Speaker 5: your own guilt, instead of stewing on it, it should
• 2:18
  Speaker 5: be kind of pushing us to look at the root
• 2:20
  Speaker 5: cause of why we're feeling this way and addressing it and.
• 2:23
  Speaker 3: That's what today's episode is all about. We aren't just
• 2:26
  Speaker 3: talking about guilt or shame that you're earning too much though,
• 2:30
  Speaker 3: for example, you're earning what you need, but you might
• 2:33
  Speaker 3: feel shame or pressure that it's not more. You might
• 2:35
  Speaker 3: compare yourself to your colleagues or your mates who are
• 2:38
  Speaker 3: on different wickets and think, oh god, why is that
• 2:40
  Speaker 3: no where I'm at? So, yeah, it's going to be
• 2:42
  Speaker 3: a very interesting episode. We should say as well that
• 2:45
  Speaker 3: we have spoken to Victoria before today's episode. These are
• 2:48
  Speaker 3: all of her notes and hot tips and we're kind
• 2:50
  Speaker 3: of just expanding on them. So if you're just like,
• 2:52
  Speaker 3: who are these two silly nuts, we have spoken to
• 2:56
  Speaker 3: the great Victoria Devine and she's behind today's episode. So
• 2:58
  Speaker 3: that's that already. Jay Rick, what are some of the
• 3:01
  Speaker 3: common negative thoughts we have when it comes to earning guilt?
• 3:04
  Speaker 5: Yeah, all right, we've kind of drilled them down into
• 3:07
  Speaker 5: two biggie's, which is the iron you lose and the
• 3:10
  Speaker 5: I'm a fraud I don't deserve this. So the iron
• 3:13
  Speaker 5: you lose concept is kind of when you get stuck
• 3:15
  Speaker 5: into thinking that if you're succeeding, you're taking it away
• 3:19
  Speaker 5: from somebody else. So you know, if I'm earning a
• 3:21
  Speaker 5: really good salary, that must be in George that unfortunately
• 3:24
  Speaker 5: there's not enough left there for you. Yeah, and so
• 3:26
  Speaker 5: I'm depleting the resources available to you.
• 3:29
  Speaker 3: So if we're in the same company, yeah.
• 3:31
  Speaker 5: Exactly right, which shouldn't be the case. And I think
• 3:34
  Speaker 5: that that's kind of something that a lot of people
• 3:36
  Speaker 5: maybe feel as a result of, you know, workplace competitiveness
• 3:40
  Speaker 5: or the inability to talk about your wages as well.
• 3:43
  Speaker 5: I think kind of capitalizes on this a little bit.
• 3:46
  Speaker 5: And it's really really unfortunate. So while the world is
• 3:50
  Speaker 5: really unfair with the distribution of money, it's not your salary.
• 3:53
  Speaker 5: And it's really hard when you're feeling super guilty to
• 3:55
  Speaker 5: not think that you're the root cause of all these problems.
• 3:58
  Speaker 5: But it's definitely your salary shouldn't be impacting the broader
• 4:03
  Speaker 5: world as we know it. In reality, you're getting paid
• 4:05
  Speaker 5: your wage. It's only adding to the flow of money.
• 4:07
  Speaker 5: You can say, if you can invest, you can donate
• 4:09
  Speaker 5: to charity if that's what you want to do, you
• 4:11
  Speaker 5: can do all of these really great things. And then
• 4:14
  Speaker 5: the second option is kind of the flip side of that.
• 4:16
  Speaker 5: And it's where you have that overwhelming imposter syndrome. You
• 4:19
  Speaker 5: feel like you don't deserve what you're earning, and women
• 4:22
  Speaker 5: definitely feel this more commonly. Unfortunately, in our recent episode
• 4:26
  Speaker 5: about how to have difficult conversations with your boss, we
• 4:28
  Speaker 5: actually learned from you, George, that only seven percent of
• 4:32
  Speaker 5: women we'll try and negotiate a salary when applying for
• 4:34
  Speaker 5: a new job, whereas fifty seven percent of men willstounding,
• 4:38
  Speaker 5: isn't it.
• 4:39
  Speaker 4: I knew it was bad.
• 4:40
  Speaker 5: I did not know it was that bad until I
• 4:42
  Speaker 5: listened to that episode. Once they're working, less than one
• 4:45
  Speaker 5: in five women are asking for a pay rise without
• 4:47
  Speaker 5: being prompted, compared to one in three men. So you
• 4:50
  Speaker 5: should know you are valuable as a woman, as a man,
• 4:53
  Speaker 5: as a non binary friend. You are deserving of that
• 4:57
  Speaker 5: money and you shouldn't be feeling bad for us about it.
• 5:00
  Speaker 5: And also give people credit. They usually know what they're
• 5:03
  Speaker 5: talking about when it comes to hiring, and they hired
• 5:05
  Speaker 5: you for a reason.
• 5:06
  Speaker 4: You're bringing skills to a role.
• 5:08
  Speaker 3: I would assume you don't have to be compensated for that.
• 5:13
  Speaker 3: Is that something that you've battled with, Jay Rick.
• 5:15
  Speaker 5: I think a little bit I think particularly when I
• 5:19
  Speaker 5: changed industries, so I you know, started super corporate and
• 5:22
  Speaker 5: then moved to more creative And I have said before
• 5:26
  Speaker 5: I did it without a degree, So for me, there
• 5:28
  Speaker 5: was definitely a little bit of knowing that I had
• 5:31
  Speaker 5: the skills to do the job that I do now
• 5:33
  Speaker 5: and that I was freelancing in for a very long time,
• 5:36
  Speaker 5: I had a proven track record of it, but worrying
• 5:39
  Speaker 5: about what I didn't know when in reality, like you
• 5:42
  Speaker 5: can learn those things, and if you're doing the work,
• 5:45
  Speaker 5: you deserve to be paid well for the work that
• 5:47
  Speaker 5: you're doing. And if there are deficits in your knowledge,
• 5:50
  Speaker 5: you should be able to work with your employer to
• 5:53
  Speaker 5: fill those up, to fill the gaps and to learn.
• 5:55
  Speaker 5: And I think you should be constantly learning and constantly growing,
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  Speaker 5: and you know, your salary should be reflective of where
• 6:02
  Speaker 5: you are, but also in some way reflective of where
• 6:05
  Speaker 5: you're going as well, and your openness to learn new things.
• 6:09
  Speaker 4: How about you?
• 6:10
  Speaker 3: Yeah, No, It's something I've definitely felt and I've spoken
• 6:14
  Speaker 3: about it on the podcast before. I definitely struggle with
• 6:16
  Speaker 3: imposter syndrome. But in terms of asking for a pay rise,
• 6:20
  Speaker 3: I remember when I spoke to v about a pay
• 6:23
  Speaker 3: rise for she's on the money. I was so intimidated,
• 6:27
  Speaker 3: and she's the money.
• 6:28
  Speaker 4: Girl everyone to ask for. If anyway you feel good
• 6:34
  Speaker 4: about it, it should be here, right.
• 6:35
  Speaker 3: But so it went really well and I got my
• 6:38
  Speaker 3: desired outcome. But I remember when I sent through my
• 6:41
  Speaker 3: first invoice, I felt so guilty. I was like, I'm
• 6:44
  Speaker 3: not worthy of this, Like she's gonna find me, oh
• 6:46
  Speaker 3: my god. But life just kept on ticking along, and
• 6:51
  Speaker 3: it took me a while to feel comfortable in what
• 6:54
  Speaker 3: I was earning, and I felt like I've really had
• 6:56
  Speaker 3: to prove myself. But here we are now, and I
• 6:59
  Speaker 3: definitely feel like the dollar I charge is what I'm worth.
• 7:03
  Speaker 3: But yeah, it's something that I've definitely struggled with. So
• 7:06
  Speaker 3: if you're listening and you ask someone in a similar position,
• 7:09
  Speaker 3: than back yourself, baby Jrik on that guilt re salary
• 7:13
  Speaker 3: in your company question. I was talking to a mate
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  Speaker 3: the other day and she is pretty high up in
• 7:20
  Speaker 3: marketing at this very trendy brand, and she learned the
• 7:25
  Speaker 3: other day that the business actually isn't turning a profit,
• 7:29
  Speaker 3: and she'd recently gotten a pay rise, and she felt
• 7:31
  Speaker 3: so guilty about having received that pay rise because she
• 7:35
  Speaker 3: was like, oh, but the business isn't making money. Yeah,
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  Speaker 3: but that's not the individual's problem, that's the businesses. And
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  Speaker 3: you should not have to like forfeit what you're worth
• 7:44
  Speaker 3: just because the company is not where they should be at.
• 7:46
  Speaker 5: And don't forget the big corps generally earn the big
• 7:50
  Speaker 5: dollars correct and like like anything, their subject too good
• 7:53
  Speaker 5: times and bad times. And we're coming off the back
• 7:56
  Speaker 5: of COVID, which might be why her company wasn't doing
• 7:59
  Speaker 5: so wholely. But you can almost guarantee, like the goal
• 8:02
  Speaker 5: of a business is to be profitable. So even if
• 8:04
  Speaker 5: they're not being profitable right this second, in the past
• 8:08
  Speaker 5: and in the future, there's a very good chance that
• 8:09
  Speaker 5: they have been or that they will be, and you,
• 8:12
  Speaker 5: as an employee, are contributing.
• 8:13
  Speaker 3: To that exactly. They're investing in you for that purpose.
• 8:16
  Speaker 5: Yeah, Like it's not charity. You know, you are doing
• 8:19
  Speaker 5: something to be earning the money you're getting. And I
• 8:21
  Speaker 5: think sometimes we have to remind ourselves that that responsibility
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  Speaker 5: isn't on us to keep it all ticking over.
• 8:28
  Speaker 3: So Jarek, why do we put this guilts on ourselves?
• 8:32
  Speaker 5: Well, something we say all the time, is that the
• 8:34
  Speaker 5: way that we experience money and how we feel about
• 8:37
  Speaker 5: it is really deeply rooted in how we perceived finances
• 8:40
  Speaker 5: as a child. Or your money story, Yeah, very first episode.
• 8:44
  Speaker 5: Shout out to that. Go back and listen to it
• 8:45
  Speaker 5: if you haven't, it's a goodie. But you know, maybe
• 8:47
  Speaker 5: your family income was low when you grew up and
• 8:50
  Speaker 5: this was really stressful, and so now as an adult,
• 8:53
  Speaker 5: you find it to be stressful because you haven't seen
• 8:56
  Speaker 5: positive discussion around money. Or you might be in this
• 8:59
  Speaker 5: position where you're more money than your parents ever did
• 9:02
  Speaker 5: or your partner, and that can sometimes be confronting, especially
• 9:06
  Speaker 5: when maybe the people around you don't react super positively
• 9:10
  Speaker 5: to that either. Yeah, or on the flip side, if
• 9:12
  Speaker 5: you grew up with a lot of money and it
• 9:14
  Speaker 5: came really easily, you might not be feeling a tangible
• 9:16
  Speaker 5: connection to the value of money, or you might be
• 9:19
  Speaker 5: feeling guilty if you're not earning an amount of money
• 9:22
  Speaker 5: that enables you to live the lifestyle that you grew
• 9:24
  Speaker 5: up with. So there's all kinds of different ways that
• 9:26
  Speaker 5: we can feel things, And if you listen to the
• 9:28
  Speaker 5: Money Diaries episode, you'll know that the feeling of anxiety
• 9:32
  Speaker 5: and stress and guilt is quite common, and it comes
• 9:35
  Speaker 5: from people from all different backgrounds, Like there's not necessarily
• 9:39
  Speaker 5: a If you were raised in this way, you're always
• 9:42
  Speaker 5: going to feel good about money and you're never going
• 9:43
  Speaker 5: to feel imposter syndrome.
• 9:44
  Speaker 4: And your life's going to be so easy.
• 9:46
  Speaker 5: It can absolutely have an impact, But believing that we
• 9:49
  Speaker 5: don't deserve a certain amount of money can really cause
• 9:52
  Speaker 5: us to self sabotage and stop us from growing or
• 9:55
  Speaker 5: developing or earning more money in the future.
• 9:57
  Speaker 3: Yeah, that's so true.
• 10:00
  Speaker 5: Just kind of getting in our own way a lot
• 10:01
  Speaker 5: of the time. And I think sure, you know, when
• 10:03
  Speaker 5: we were chatting to v about this episode and about
• 10:06
  Speaker 5: all of the things that she wanted us to share,
• 10:08
  Speaker 5: the big takeaway was that we need to get out
• 10:10
  Speaker 5: of our own way and we need to make space
• 10:13
  Speaker 5: for ourselves to get what we did. I think that
• 10:17
  Speaker 5: is the perfect place to press pause their jay Rick, guys,
• 10:21
  Speaker 5: don't go anywhere, because on the other side, we're going
• 10:23
  Speaker 5: to be talking through our tips to stop that feeling
• 10:27
  Speaker 5: of income guilt, So please don't go anywhere. Already straight
• 10:34
  Speaker 5: back into it, jay Rick, I wanted to have a
• 10:36
  Speaker 5: chat about how we stop this feeling of income guilt,
• 10:40
  Speaker 5: or at least how we can ease it a little bit.
• 10:42
  Speaker 5: These are some top tips from Victoria Devine herself, so
• 10:46
  Speaker 5: let's jump into them. The first is to understand where
• 10:49
  Speaker 5: your guilt comes from. So firstly, you need to notice
• 10:52
  Speaker 5: that you have a problem with earning money to begin with,
• 10:55
  Speaker 5: and then you need to work out where it's coming from.
• 10:58
  Speaker 5: Try to think about how money was spoken about when
• 11:00
  Speaker 5: you were growing up, how your parents and even your
• 11:02
  Speaker 5: grandparents felt about it, and you'll find that those answers
• 11:06
  Speaker 5: may really help you to start to heal and shed
• 11:08
  Speaker 5: some light on where this is all stemming from. So yeah,
• 11:11
  Speaker 5: taking some time to do that, I think is really important.
• 11:14
  Speaker 5: The second tip here is to take control of how
• 11:17
  Speaker 5: you feel about money by taking action. So once you've
• 11:20
  Speaker 5: discovered where your income guilt stems from, it's a really
• 11:24
  Speaker 5: good idea to take control of how to view your
• 11:26
  Speaker 5: own finances. Take ownership of your decisions and make sure
• 11:30
  Speaker 5: they stem from your own personal belief system and not
• 11:32
  Speaker 5: one that you inherited, so that's really reflecting on your
• 11:36
  Speaker 5: own values rather than other people's. The third tip here
• 11:40
  Speaker 5: is to be grateful for the money that you are
• 11:42
  Speaker 5: able to earn. So gratitude is a really great starting
• 11:46
  Speaker 5: point and something of a silver bullet. Shifting your focus
• 11:49
  Speaker 5: from guilt to gratitude is not easy, but it is
• 11:52
  Speaker 5: worth it. So as soon as you can recognize how
• 11:55
  Speaker 5: lucky you are, you can begin to feel grateful for
• 11:57
  Speaker 5: your luck. You can be grateful for your skill, be
• 12:00
  Speaker 5: grateful for the privileges you've had, and so on. I
• 12:03
  Speaker 5: feel like that's one that's particularly pertinent on both ends
• 12:05
  Speaker 5: of the spectrum, like we were saying earlier, like guilt
• 12:07
  Speaker 5: over earning too much, but also guilt over not earning
• 12:10
  Speaker 5: enough or not doing enough or being enough. I think
• 12:14
  Speaker 5: that a lot of this guilt comes from the comparison
• 12:17
  Speaker 5: game and you're emails seeing people with less than you
• 12:20
  Speaker 5: or people with more. And that's where for me personally,
• 12:24
  Speaker 5: I know that a lot of my feelings come from
• 12:26
  Speaker 5: when I am feeling guilty or overwhelmed or imposter syndrome esque,
• 12:30
  Speaker 5: and yeah, just being able to take a step back
• 12:33
  Speaker 5: and say, oh my gosh, like I'm lucky and I'm
• 12:35
  Speaker 5: working hard and I'm doing good things and that does
• 12:39
  Speaker 5: not come at the direct detriment of other people.
• 12:43
  Speaker 3: Yeah, really, well, said, just let's shift our focus and
• 12:46
  Speaker 3: chat about emerging industries. We know that lots of people
• 12:50
  Speaker 3: in our community work in emerging industries that didn't exist
• 12:53
  Speaker 3: a few years ago, and you and I both do
• 12:55
  Speaker 3: as well in the podcasting space. Do you think working
• 12:59
  Speaker 3: in an emerging industry that's maybe not quite understood by
• 13:03
  Speaker 3: older generations, do you think that can lead to a
• 13:06
  Speaker 3: sense of imposter syndrome?
• 13:07
  Speaker 4: Oh, a thousand percent.
• 13:09
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 13:09
  Speaker 5: Firstly because we don't have a blueprint for what salary
• 13:14
  Speaker 5: or what life structure should look like. Like a lot
• 13:16
  Speaker 5: of the emerging industries at the moment are in the
• 13:19
  Speaker 5: creative space or in the tech space, because those are
• 13:22
  Speaker 5: areas that are developing like never before. Is new technology
• 13:25
  Speaker 5: and new things become available. Influencers, content creators, podcasters, all
• 13:31
  Speaker 5: of these things. If you had said five years ago
• 13:33
  Speaker 5: I podcast for a living, people wouldn't be even known
• 13:36
  Speaker 5: what that meant now, let alone believe that you could
• 13:38
  Speaker 5: make good money from it. And so I think the
• 13:42
  Speaker 5: fact that there's not really a clear linear process to follow,
• 13:46
  Speaker 5: like do you need to go to UNI, Absolutely not.
• 13:49
  Speaker 5: Do you need to be you know, a certain sized company, No,
• 13:52
  Speaker 5: you can do it as a person by yourself, and
• 13:55
  Speaker 5: so those common I think frameworks or goals or achievements
• 14:00
  Speaker 5: that apply to your regular job don't necessarily apply here,
• 14:04
  Speaker 5: and it can make it hard to kind of go,
• 14:06
  Speaker 5: Am I on the right track?
• 14:07
  Speaker 4: Am I progressing well? Am I doing too much? Too little?
• 14:11
  Speaker 5: And so that makes it really tricky. And then on
• 14:14
  Speaker 5: the flip side of that, a lot of the time,
• 14:16
  Speaker 5: and I definitely feel this as a creative, both in
• 14:18
  Speaker 5: my full time and my side hustle, people don't necessarily
• 14:22
  Speaker 5: understand what you do.
• 14:24
  Speaker 4: And I think if you.
• 14:25
  Speaker 5: Follow me on TikTok at Jess do Ricky, I put
• 14:28
  Speaker 5: up a TikTok that was reflecting on when I was younger.
• 14:31
  Speaker 5: I would get in trouble sometimes for making little videos,
• 14:36
  Speaker 5: and I had a YouTube channel and I made these
• 14:38
  Speaker 5: little videos and it was all very fun, and I
• 14:40
  Speaker 5: used to get the old go outside and have a
• 14:42
  Speaker 5: run around, play, you do something productive. You're looking at
• 14:45
  Speaker 5: your screen all the time. But that is actually what
• 14:48
  Speaker 5: got me this job, the highest earning job that I've
• 14:50
  Speaker 5: ever had, the job that really fulfills me the most
• 14:54
  Speaker 5: that I ever have experienced. And when people don't understand something,
• 14:59
  Speaker 5: it's very easy for to be dismissive of it, and
• 15:02
  Speaker 5: maybe you want to build your own business. Maybe you're
• 15:04
  Speaker 5: a small business owner and your friends just don't understand that,
• 15:07
  Speaker 5: or maybe you're researching into a new area that hasn't
• 15:12
  Speaker 5: developed yet, and people go, why are you wasting your time?
• 15:15
  Speaker 5: And that can really feed into your feeling of imposter
• 15:18
  Speaker 5: syndrome or your feeling of you know, am I doing
• 15:22
  Speaker 5: the right thing?
• 15:23
  Speaker 4: Am I? You know? Embarrassed?
• 15:25
  Speaker 5: And just like you don't necessarily have a support network
• 15:27
  Speaker 5: or people who understand it, And I think that can
• 15:30
  Speaker 5: be really isolating, and that can kind of trigger those
• 15:34
  Speaker 5: feelings of guilt and self doubt.
• 15:36
  Speaker 3: Have you ever felt kind of like shame or like
• 15:39
  Speaker 3: embarrassed if, say, your auntie at family Christmas is like, so,
• 15:43
  Speaker 3: what are you doing with yourself? Now? Just got did you?
• 15:45
  Speaker 3: And you're like, I work in the podcasting space. Have
• 15:48
  Speaker 3: you ever felt that kind of judgment from older gens
• 15:51
  Speaker 3: or even people our age that are like podcasting like
• 15:54
  Speaker 3: what a gag? Like that's not gonna last long? Oh
• 15:57
  Speaker 3: for sure?
• 15:58
  Speaker 5: Yeah, And I think podcasting, on some level, I have
• 16:02
  Speaker 5: the security of being able to be like she's on
• 16:05
  Speaker 5: the Money's the biggest business podcast in the country, yeah,
• 16:08
  Speaker 5: but like there's a level of legitimacy there. But particularly
• 16:12
  Speaker 5: in my side hustle, where I create content and I
• 16:14
  Speaker 5: have for a very long time, it's hard to be
• 16:17
  Speaker 5: like I take photos for Instagram and you almost fall
• 16:22
  Speaker 5: down this whole of having to justify it and be like,
• 16:23
  Speaker 5: oh my god, no, it's like a billion dollar industry
• 16:25
  Speaker 5: and like it's marketing and it's this and it's that,
• 16:27
  Speaker 5: and you know, I really find myself trying to back
• 16:31
  Speaker 5: myself up with all of these things, like what I
• 16:34
  Speaker 5: do isn't enough, and it's like, well, it is because
• 16:36
  Speaker 5: huge companies pay me money to do these things for them,
• 16:40
  Speaker 5: and that should be fine, Like I shouldn't have to
• 16:42
  Speaker 5: justify it any further, but I really feel like I do,
• 16:45
  Speaker 5: and it is. It's a level of embarrassment because I
• 16:47
  Speaker 5: feel like people who aren't in that space don't understand
• 16:51
  Speaker 5: and would you be the same freelancing for sure?
• 16:54
  Speaker 3: For sure, especially with a podcast. I'm always like if
• 16:58
  Speaker 3: people are like George podcast, I'm like, yeah, it's just
• 17:01
  Speaker 3: this little thing on the side.
• 17:03
  Speaker 4: And then I had actually not that little.
• 17:05
  Speaker 3: The other day one of the boys from work was like, Oh,
• 17:08
  Speaker 3: what's this podcast you speak of, and I was like, oh,
• 17:10
  Speaker 3: it's called She's on the Money. He looked up.
• 17:12
  Speaker 4: He was like, oh my god, like four.
• 17:14
  Speaker 3: Point seven thousand bloody reviews or whatever it was. He's like,
• 17:18
  Speaker 3: how many listens to you guys? Average? Anyway, we went
• 17:19
  Speaker 3: into it, and it was weird seeing him kind of
• 17:22
  Speaker 3: like switch and be like, oh, you're like, it's just
• 17:26
  Speaker 3: like you're not just in your bedroom floor with two
• 17:29
  Speaker 3: microphones just chatting. There's a little bit more to it.
• 17:32
  Speaker 3: And that was I'm going to be honest, like really
• 17:35
  Speaker 3: really satisfying exactly. So just a little old thing on
• 17:39
  Speaker 3: the side. But yeah, no, I think it is a
• 17:42
  Speaker 3: really interesting space, and you know, not to bring gender
• 17:46
  Speaker 3: into the fold too much, but I think especially with
• 17:49
  Speaker 3: the content creation and kind of influencer space, it is
• 17:51
  Speaker 3: female dominated, and I think there is a correlation between
• 17:55
  Speaker 3: why those industries aren't taken seriously because it is female dominated.
• 18:00
  Speaker 5: This is something that really annoys me because I am
• 18:02
  Speaker 5: in the content space, but the media, particularly the way
• 18:06
  Speaker 5: they position influencing partially but also other like YouTube or
• 18:12
  Speaker 5: any of those other platforms podcasting as well, that it's
• 18:15
  Speaker 5: positioned as like silly little girls who are really vapid
• 18:19
  Speaker 5: who care about themselves and they're super self absorbed and
• 18:21
  Speaker 5: they want to listen to the sound of their own voice.
• 18:24
  Speaker 5: It just gets me going, like it makes me so mad,
• 18:27
  Speaker 5: And you're right, like do men in this space get it?
• 18:31
  Speaker 4: For sure?
• 18:32
  Speaker 5: But it really feels like it's being trivialized because it's
• 18:37
  Speaker 5: something that women are primarily doing. Yeah, and a lot
• 18:41
  Speaker 5: of the time it's areas that women are passionate about.
• 18:43
  Speaker 5: So you know, sometimes fashion and beauty if we look
• 18:46
  Speaker 5: at the beauty gurus that I grew up watching, you know,
• 18:48
  Speaker 5: now it's evolved into like the educational space where you know,
• 18:52
  Speaker 5: finance or women's rights, politics, podcasts and platforms that are
• 18:57
  Speaker 5: aimed to make these concepts that have previously been elusive
• 19:00
  Speaker 5: more accessible. And it still feels like the really hard
• 19:05
  Speaker 5: work that these women are doing is being diminished.
• 19:08
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it's not being taken seriously.
• 19:09
  Speaker 5: No, And it's like hey, my Jews or dode like
• 19:13
  Speaker 5: comes it comes from women as well, Like these people
• 19:15
  Speaker 5: are working so hard and things that look easy going
• 19:19
  Speaker 5: back to your friend, even if you were making a
• 19:22
  Speaker 5: podcast from your bedroom floor, it's I mean, that's's where
• 19:25
  Speaker 5: we started.
• 19:26
  Speaker 4: It's not easy.
• 19:27
  Speaker 5: It's a lot of hard work to script and conceptualize
• 19:31
  Speaker 5: and edit and produce and market, and you're the person
• 19:35
  Speaker 5: doing all of that. A lot of the time when
• 19:36
  Speaker 5: you're starting out, it's one or two people, and that
• 19:40
  Speaker 5: is really I think undervalued.
• 19:42
  Speaker 4: And underappreciated a lot of the time. And it just
• 19:44
  Speaker 4: makes me really.
• 19:45
  Speaker 3: Mad, for sure, and it does. It extends to so
• 19:47
  Speaker 3: many industries, the music industry. Taylor Swift versus Advance Joy,
• 19:51
  Speaker 3: they put it the same music danced Joy is taken seriously,
• 19:54
  Speaker 3: Taylor Swift just a fluffy, old little pop singer. I
• 19:56
  Speaker 3: don't know where I heard that comparison recently. It's not
• 19:58
  Speaker 3: my own, but it's very frustrating. Let's get back on track.
• 20:03
  Speaker 3: Ye sorry, I loved it. So let's talk about the
• 20:07
  Speaker 3: difference between working for a non for profit and a
• 20:10
  Speaker 3: corporate jest, So, if we work for a corporate presumably
• 20:14
  Speaker 3: we're going to be able to make more money, even
• 20:17
  Speaker 3: if we're doing the same job as we were in
• 20:18
  Speaker 3: a non for profit. Do you think that can lead
• 20:21
  Speaker 3: to feelings of inadequacy?
• 20:23
  Speaker 4: I think so for sure.
• 20:24
  Speaker 5: And non for profit is a really interesting space because
• 20:28
  Speaker 5: it's a little bit more set. I think the salary
• 20:31
  Speaker 5: bands are much more specific and probably a bit tighter,
• 20:34
  Speaker 5: like you said, than corporate, and it can be hard
• 20:36
  Speaker 5: if you have goals, and let's be honest, most of
• 20:39
  Speaker 5: us do, it can probably be quite difficult to reconcile
• 20:43
  Speaker 5: the passion that you have for the work that you're doing,
• 20:46
  Speaker 5: because non for profits do incredible work that's super impactful,
• 20:50
  Speaker 5: whereas sometimes if you're working big corp you can feel
• 20:53
  Speaker 5: a bit like a cog in the wheel. I've never
• 20:55
  Speaker 5: been in this position personally, so I don't need to
• 20:57
  Speaker 5: speak out of turn, but I think, yeah, grappling if
• 21:00
  Speaker 5: the comparison of like, oh, I could go work over
• 21:03
  Speaker 5: here and just turn up every day and do my
• 21:05
  Speaker 5: job and be paid more money, or I can do
• 21:08
  Speaker 5: this work that I feel passionate about would be a
• 21:10
  Speaker 5: little bit of a struggle. And yeah, again that kind
• 21:13
  Speaker 5: of internal conflict leading to those feelings of inadequacy and
• 21:17
  Speaker 5: comparison and you know, questioning maybe your choices a little
• 21:22
  Speaker 5: bit as well, because I think at the root of it,
• 21:25
  Speaker 5: these feelings of guilt come from a lack of confidence
• 21:28
  Speaker 5: in ourselves and what we're doing and the choices we're
• 21:31
  Speaker 5: making and the money we're earning and the jobs that
• 21:33
  Speaker 5: we're doing, and so I could definitely see how that
• 21:35
  Speaker 5: could be a problem. And to anyone who is experiencing that,
• 21:39
  Speaker 5: I think that I would say, just really think about
• 21:42
  Speaker 5: what you're doing and the impact that you're having.
• 21:45
  Speaker 4: Because they're not for profit.
• 21:46
  Speaker 5: Space does incredible things, and there is so much value
• 21:49
  Speaker 5: in being able to say I'm doing something that's changing
• 21:51
  Speaker 5: the world.
• 21:51
  Speaker 3: Yeah. Really well said the j Rick. Final question. And
• 21:56
  Speaker 3: I think it might kind of impact both of us,
• 21:59
  Speaker 3: or we might both be able to speak to it.
• 22:02
  Speaker 3: I wanted to talk about the confronting nature of out
• 22:06
  Speaker 3: earning our parents or our partner big one.
• 22:10
  Speaker 5: Yeah, big one, particularly as a female.
• 22:12
  Speaker 3: Correct. Correct, is that something you've felt guilty about in
• 22:15
  Speaker 3: the past? I think how you experienced that?
• 22:17
  Speaker 5: Yeah, I've said on the pod before. My partner's in
• 22:19
  Speaker 5: his last year of NUMI. So this year he's spending
• 22:21
  Speaker 5: his entire year on placement, which means that he's not
• 22:24
  Speaker 5: earning money. Yeah, unfortunately. So even without that, I'm out
• 22:27
  Speaker 5: earning him, and then when he steps into an entry
• 22:29
  Speaker 5: level role, I will certainly be out earning him still
• 22:32
  Speaker 5: for a year or two before he works his way up.
• 22:35
  Speaker 4: I don't feel guilty.
• 22:36
  Speaker 5: I think I've gotten quite good at going Hey, like
• 22:39
  Speaker 5: the path that I've chosen his loads of here, and
• 22:41
  Speaker 5: I've worked really hard for it. He's obviously a mature
• 22:44
  Speaker 5: age students. His path has looked very different to mine,
• 22:47
  Speaker 5: and that is not a bad thing. But I think
• 22:50
  Speaker 5: it's definitely for me been more about well reconciling what
• 22:53
  Speaker 5: does that look like in a relationship and going back
• 22:56
  Speaker 5: to that equality versus equity concept and you know, how
• 22:59
  Speaker 5: can we make things easier on each other when we're
• 23:02
  Speaker 5: working towards shared goals.
• 23:03
  Speaker 3: That's interesting. I feel like I'm kind of similar to you.
• 23:06
  Speaker 3: I don't really feel that guilty about don't shouldn't.
• 23:10
  Speaker 4: Sorry, doll.
• 23:11
  Speaker 3: Yeah, maybe it's working here. It's rubbing off on me,
• 23:14
  Speaker 3: but I definitely understand women who do feel that way,
• 23:18
  Speaker 3: or men or non binary friends. But I think it's
• 23:23
  Speaker 3: a sign that you're in a really good and non
• 23:26
  Speaker 3: toxic relationship if you can celebrate each other's wins and
• 23:30
  Speaker 3: compare yourself to your partner and be like, oh, I'm
• 23:32
  Speaker 3: earning more, I'm winning. Like, that's not what it's about.
• 23:35
  Speaker 3: It's a team, it's a partnership. Yeah, so I think
• 23:37
  Speaker 3: that is interesting.
• 23:38
  Speaker 5: If you are feeling guilty, I think having a conversation
• 23:42
  Speaker 5: with your partner is a really healthy thing to do
• 23:44
  Speaker 5: and just say, oh my gosh, like I'm you know,
• 23:46
  Speaker 5: feeling a little bit bad or I'm feeling like this.
• 23:48
  Speaker 5: And as you say, if they're a good partner, they'll
• 23:51
  Speaker 5: be saying, babe, no, like, I'm so happy for you
• 23:53
  Speaker 5: and I'm so proud of you. And maybe you can
• 23:56
  Speaker 5: look at ways again that you can kind of equalize thing. Yeah, yeah,
• 24:00
  Speaker 5: you know, maybe you look at splitting your percentage base
• 24:02
  Speaker 5: or something like that. But if you are feeling guilty,
• 24:06
  Speaker 5: I think that yeah, like we said before, really going
• 24:09
  Speaker 5: back to the root of why, because it's not a
• 24:12
  Speaker 5: bad thing. It's a really fantastic thing that you're earning
• 24:14
  Speaker 5: good money and that you're putting yourself and your partner
• 24:17
  Speaker 5: in a position where you can achieve the things that
• 24:19
  Speaker 5: you want to and you can build that lifestyle. And
• 24:23
  Speaker 5: you know, if your partner's not there yet, what can
• 24:25
  Speaker 5: you do to help them along the way? Y? Do
• 24:27
  Speaker 5: you need to encourage them just stand up for themselves
• 24:29
  Speaker 5: and get you know, ask for that pay rise or
• 24:31
  Speaker 5: that promotion, or are they like my partner and they're
• 24:34
  Speaker 5: in the middle of studying and they just need sometimes
• 24:36
  Speaker 5: a bit of emotional support or hey, like, you're studying late,
• 24:40
  Speaker 5: I cooked dinner. There are other things I think that
• 24:43
  Speaker 5: you can bring into a relationship that are super valuable
• 24:46
  Speaker 5: that aren't money. Yes, and there's a very good chance
• 24:48
  Speaker 5: that you, as a human being are just contributing them
• 24:51
  Speaker 5: without even recognizing that. So taking a step back from
• 24:54
  Speaker 5: the financial side of things and going, hey, like, what
• 24:56
  Speaker 5: other valuable things am I doing and can I do
• 24:59
  Speaker 5: in partnership to really make it equal and loving and fulfilling.
• 25:03
  Speaker 4: Yep, it's just a relationship advice.
• 25:06
  Speaker 3: Oh my god, I love it. If you do need
• 25:09
  Speaker 3: more tips on achieving equity within a relationship, we did
• 25:13
  Speaker 3: do a whole podcast on that a couple of months ago. Maybe,
• 25:15
  Speaker 3: so have a little scroll back to find that one. Jarek,
• 25:19
  Speaker 3: I think that is probably the perfect place to leave
• 25:21
  Speaker 3: it today. I feel like the moral of the story
• 25:23
  Speaker 3: is to go easier on yourself. Yeah, just don't be
• 25:26
  Speaker 3: so harsh if.
• 25:27
  Speaker 5: You need someone to tell you that you are worthy
• 25:29
  Speaker 5: and deserving of where you're at, whether you're earning more
• 25:32
  Speaker 5: than you think you should be or not as much
• 25:34
  Speaker 5: as you think you should be, let it be us.
• 25:36
  Speaker 5: You are doing really well and life is a journey.
• 25:39
  Speaker 5: And not to get super like go on super smushy
• 25:43
  Speaker 5: mushy on you, but you're doing good things and you're
• 25:46
  Speaker 5: only part way through your life unless you're you know,
• 25:49
  Speaker 5: one hundred years old hopefully and knocking on the door stop.
• 25:52
  Speaker 5: You've got so much time to do things. And you
• 25:56
  Speaker 5: know where you are now isn't where you're.
• 25:58
  Speaker 4: Going to be forever.
• 25:59
  Speaker 5: And I yeah, just yourself some slack yeap, and sometimes
• 26:02
  Speaker 5: you just need to hear someone say that.
• 26:03
  Speaker 3: Love that j Rick. All right, let's jump into the
• 26:06
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• 26:09
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• 26:12
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