Latest / onefjef / Born American, Raised Mexican

Transcript

Born American, Raised Mexican · onefjef

0:01
I'm here in Mexico basically because my mom had schizophrenia
0:06
and a trust fund, and my father was a sociopath and child molester.
0:12
And so we moved here to the States most likely because the situation with…
0:17
Suddenly my parents packed and said two months before- Right … they packed
0:21
everything, came and came to Mexico.
0:23
And they had to go.
0:23
And yeah, we, we cut off ties with every- every- everyone in, in the States.
0:27
Este es el episodio sesenta y tres de onefjef.
0:39
Episode 63.
0:41
Episode 63.
0:45
Hello once again, my friends.
0:47
¿Que tal?
0:49
Are you thriving?
0:50
Yes, of course you are.
0:54
Me too.
0:55
Can you believe it's October?
0:57
October used to be the eighth month in the Roman calendar.
1:02
I just learned this recently.
1:04
Octo is the Latin word for eight, and Spanish word is ocho, so it's close.
1:12
The months weren't longer back in the Roman times, but apparently after
1:17
December there was just, like, a nameless void for, like, two months because
1:23
it was winter and not a lot happened.
1:26
Weird, right?
1:26
I mean, if somebody asked you what month it was, would you be like,
1:29
"Just the void, day 80," or whatever.
1:34
You know, everybody talks about how things seem so bleak and everybody thinks
1:36
politics is bad right now, but at least we have names for the winter months.
1:43
Count your blessings, my friends.
1:44
Count your blessings
1:48
My guest today is Keo, who has asked me to omit his last name for
1:54
reasons that will become apparent as you listen to the episode.
1:59
I met Keo in this film meetup group that I've been going to fairly consistently
2:03
since I moved here to Mexico City.
2:06
We pick a film, we watch the film on our own, and then once a month
2:10
we get together and we talk about it and about whatever else comes up.
2:14
Sometimes there's Domino's.
2:16
It's an interesting group of humans, and Keo is no exception to that.
2:21
His story is one of the more incredible and difficult expat/immigrant
2:27
stories I've heard here.
2:31
And I don't want to give too much away, but I should preface this by saying that
2:36
we do talk about childhood sexual abuse.
2:40
So if this is a subject that is potentially triggering to you, then
2:45
maybe listen to a different episode.
2:48
Okay.
2:49
Also, this conversation was recorded back in my old apartment about six
2:53
months ago when I was relatively fresh off the boat, as it were.
2:58
And honestly, it was a little embarrassing listening back to this interview
3:01
because I sound quite green at times, like an eager beaver, if you will.
3:10
Also drunk too, as Keo and I knocked down a significant part of a bottle of tequila
3:15
during the course of this conversation.
3:17
I tried to edit most of the nonsense out, but there's still
3:22
a bit in there if you squint.
3:24
Apologies.
3:26
Before I get to that though, please take a moment to like, rate, subscribe
3:31
and review this podcast and then share it with somebody that you know.
3:37
If there's anything I've learned over the last year and a half of
3:39
making this podcast, it's that growing a podcast is difficult work.
3:45
So any help you can provide is very much appreciated.
3:51
But also, thank you for listening.
3:55
Thank you for being here.
3:57
Here's my conversation with Keo from my old apartment in Roma Sur
4:06
Keo short for anything?
4:07
Uh, yeah.
4:08
The I kind of made, I made it up when I was, uh, uh, I think I was
4:14
13, 14 years old, and, um, my Birth certificate, uh, says Christopher,
4:20
and Chris is more Christina in Mexico.
4:23
Ah, okay.
4:24
So I kinda had an ident- well, my whole life is in big, huge identity crisis.
4:28
I love it.
4:29
We'll get to that.
4:30
But, uh, oh yeah.
4:30
No, no, no.
4:31
We can… So okay, how did you end up in Mexico City?
4:35
Well, um, I have this kind of weird story background because, uh, my parents left.
4:41
I have a, a sister who's six years older than me, and, uh, so when, when I was
4:47
three and she was nine, they, uh, suddenly packed and we, we, they were living in
4:53
Santa Barbara as a- Your whole family?
4:55
Yeah.
4:55
Right.
4:55
I mean, for the four of us, my mother, father, sister, son.
4:59
I kinda remember a couple of flashes, like I used to, I don't
5:03
know, I think I had a tricycle that I could- that was in the back.
5:07
Fair enough … or something like that.
5:08
Yeah, yeah.
5:09
I think I… I don't know, just a few flash… So then they moved here, and,
5:13
uh, my father always come up, uh, w- always had these fantasies and, and tall
5:18
stories, and my mom, um, had, would- had a m- mental problem and mental disease,
5:24
and I don't know, sometimes like, uh…
5:26
My, my mother was quite functional, and she was brightest
5:29
person I've met in my life.
5:31
I mean, she's, uh- Right … anybody that met her was, she was
5:34
just absolutely brilliant.
5:36
She had an excitable mind and… But she would just agree with everything that
5:41
my father would say, and just kind of either be quiet or, I mean, not, not, she
5:45
didn't talk about why we were in Mexico.
5:48
And my, my father, like, he was, uh, once he would say like, "Oh, it's just
5:52
that my mother was part of the Communist Party and we were going to Chile." Now,
5:57
uh, b- apparently Chile was a real thing.
5:59
I don't know.
5:59
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
6:00
I think it was that.
6:00
But we, we, uh, they drove here to Mexico City- Wow … so in a Jeep.
6:04
And what year is this?
6:05
This is 1973.
6:06
So in 1973, so you guys just kinda packed up and moved to Mexico City, right?
6:11
Yeah.
6:11
Okay.
6:11
With v- very vague and- And you have no idea why.
6:14
Yeah.
6:14
Your mom has some mental issues- Yeah … you don't really know.
6:16
Yeah.
6:17
Yeah.
6:17
And your dad has some other, I'm not sure what issues, but we can- Yeah, I
6:21
mean- … get to if you want to or not.
6:21
But yeah.
6:22
Yeah.
6:22
And so you moved to Mexico City?
6:24
Yes.
6:24
My parents, uh, they started teaching English.
6:27
Okay.
6:28
I later knew, uh, found out that they only had a tourist visa.
6:33
We all had just had a tourist visa.
6:35
So yeah, uh, s- so he just, uh, well, we just stayed here.
6:39
There was no connection with, uh, w- I, I don't have a…
6:42
And, uh, so my mom didn't have any, any family.
6:45
She had some family in, in Wales.
6:47
Her, her- Hmm … parents were from Wales.
6:49
And, uh, and my father had a sister.
6:53
They, they're both, uh, they passed away a few years ago.
6:55
Okay.
6:56
When you're younger, are you ever, like, asking your parents, "Why did
6:58
we move here when we were three?"
7:00
Yeah.
7:00
No, I, I, I- No?
7:01
… don't know.
7:01
It just was just, I, I mean, I knew it was kinda weird and that I was
7:05
different and- Yeah I was born here.
7:09
I, I mean, in the way that, I mean, at least my consciousness
7:11
was born here . Sure, sure, sure.
7:12
I mean, my mind was b- born here.
7:14
Yeah.
7:14
I, I didn't have much of a mind before that.
7:16
Yeah, yeah.
7:17
And the thing is, I, I started telling these stories that my father
7:19
would say, which then kept changing.
7:22
And also when I started to be mildly intelligent- Sure … I would say, "No,
7:28
this doesn't really make sense." Uh-huh.
7:29
I mean, I don't think there's CIA- … Communist Party-
7:34
Right … uh, uh, fleeing- Yeah … thing kind of makes sense.
7:38
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
7:38
No, I mean, this, this, this is just not… There's no way to know
7:41
because- Sure … they didn't, they didn't give any explanation of this.
7:44
They never told you.
7:45
They di- and then they didn't tell, like, uh, my aunt or their family.
7:50
Right.
7:50
Right, right, right.
7:50
The thing is, we stayed here.
7:51
I was a, I was a American-Mexican dreamer because- not a Mexican-American.
7:56
I'm American-Mexican dreamer because I, I, I didn't have my papers, and I- Right.
8:00
Right, right … this was my, the only country I knew.
8:02
Right.
8:02
No?
8:03
And but, but, uh, my parents didn't get involved with the American
8:08
community here or anything, although they did teach English, so yeah,
8:12
they had a few English- A little bit.
8:13
Yeah … yeah.
8:14
And, and, and a lot of them were Mexicans, uh, Mexicans that spoke
8:18
English and gave English classes.
8:20
Right.
8:20
Right, right.
8:21
So I don't know.
8:21
Uh, they, they were just very, very, very, very weird.
8:24
And so, so my life was, at home was really a fantasy world.
8:29
Right.
8:30
And I didn't feel safe.
8:32
Uh, I had- In what way did you not feel- Well, uh, I mean, I think
8:35
my father was a threat to me and- Oh, he was an abusive guy or?
8:39
Yeah.
8:40
Yeah.
8:40
Yeah.
8:41
Uh, yeah, I mean, he was a child molester.
8:44
Oh, all right.
8:44
So, so yeah.
8:45
Well, there, that explains a little more.
8:46
So, so he molested me and my brother and- Oh, he molested you too?
8:48
Yeah.
8:49
Yeah.
8:49
Oh, wow.
8:50
Yeah, yeah.
8:50
And my b- I had a brother that was born here because he was 15 years… I was
8:55
15 year, years old when he was born.
8:57
Uh-huh.
8:57
And he was born here, and, uh, he was also molested by my father and, but yeah,
9:02
m- we, I, I had a lot of mental issues.
9:04
And do you know that because you, do, he told you?
9:06
Oh, yeah.
9:07
Yeah.
9:07
No, no, we talked about it all the time.
9:09
Yeah.
9:09
Right.
9:09
My, my brother and, and me, we talked about it all the time- Yeah,
9:11
yeah … and how difficult it was to make especially the American's,
9:14
uh, family to believe us, no?
9:16
Right.
9:16
Right.
9:16
Because we also, I mean, since, since my brother and I, we have
9:20
problems since we're, we were children because yeah, I mean, that happens.
9:24
No, we weren't- Sure, sure … very normal and no, no nice and every…
9:27
No, no, no, I mean, we were weird.
9:29
And, uh, my brother got into drugs from, I, I think age 12- Okay
9:34
something like that.
9:34
Yeah.
9:35
So yeah, I mean, whenever we, we said that, I mean, my father's a-
9:38
abusing us and- Uh-huh … and, and takes us with men to be- Abused.
9:44
I mean, he didn't do it.
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He, he, he took us with men to do it.
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And, uh- Uh-huh … but yeah, telling him and say, and giving all the evidence.
9:51
"No, no, no, but they're such wonderful people."
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And I, I remember, I mean, right now with all this Jeffrey Epstein thing-
9:57
Yeah, yeah … I said, "Yeah, yeah, he's s- such a wonderful guy." Of course.
10:00
Yeah, yeah.
10:00
I mean, I'm sure he was swell.
10:01
I mean, I think that Donald Trump was right.
10:03
No, he, probably Jeffrey Epstein was a swell guy.
10:05
Yeah, I'm sure he was, yeah.
10:06
No, I mean- Yeah
10:07
yeah, I mean, that's, but that's, that's what psychopaths do.
10:09
Uh, usually they're very charming, right?
10:10
Yeah.
10:11
I mean, sociopathy- They, they have to be very, they, yeah, exactly.
10:12
Yeah.
10:13
They have to be very charming to hide all the e- Yeah … I mean- Yeah … horrid
10:17
things and- All the sociopaths- Yeah, yeah … that I've ever met have
10:19
always been the most charming people I've ever met, because that's- Yeah
10:22
the thing, right?
10:23
How long did that go on for with your dad?
10:24
Guess until, uh, we were 11.
10:27
Uh, because he, he, they kind of, they, they always have like a- Yeah,
10:30
those- … perfect age … yeah.
10:31
So, so it was like, uh, like between seven and nine.
10:36
So, so I mean, later, later, uh, after he died, I mean, it came
10:39
out that, yeah, I mean, people…
10:41
That, that's what really pissed me off- Oh, after he died it all came out?
10:44
Yeah.
10:45
I mean, but, but, but that, uh, children that he knew from other like friends
10:49
of friends- Right … or whatever, I mean, fortunately not from my side.
10:52
And yeah, my, my, my father was probably the charmest, uh, I, I mean-
10:56
I'm sure … he was charming as- Yeah
10:58
fuck, I guess I can say.
11:00
Charming as fuck, yeah.
11:00
Well, I'm Canadian.
11:00
You, you can b- it if you… Sure.
11:02
Do you think your mom knew what was going on?
11:04
Oh, I, I mean, I actually told her, but, yeah, she, I mean- She didn't do anything
11:08
… she said that she didn't know, and then she sa- she said she couldn't do anything
11:11
about it, which I kinda believe, I mean, in a sense because- Yeah, no, right
11:14
she was, she was trapped because, uh- Yeah … I mean, she had
11:17
money, but she was morbidly obese.
11:19
I mean, but just- Ah, sure … huge, you know?
11:21
I mean, and- Right … and, uh, she couldn't move, she couldn't th…
11:24
Uh, which was a li- I mean, it was kind of part of the plan, I guess.
11:28
Right.
11:28
No?
11:28
Right.
11:29
How did you feel about your dad when you were a kid?
11:32
Were you scared of him?
11:33
Were you just- No, I, I, I mean, I actually loved him
11:35
because you kind of have to.
11:36
Right.
11:37
I mean, you get to… You start loving your parents-
11:38
Right … kind of instinctively.
11:41
Right.
11:41
And, uh, but the thing is when, when, when, when I turned seven
11:45
and eight and the abuse started and that, that's… I, I started, without
11:49
thinking, you know, just keeping away.
11:51
I didn't, I didn't… Not that I was- Yeah … since he, he, he, he arranged for
11:56
other men to do the stuff- Jesus fucking Christ, bro … uh, so with, like, w- if
12:00
I was h- with him, I wasn't afraid- Right … because I knew that- These other fucking
12:04
random dudes who he was- Yeah, exactly.
12:05
So, I mean.
12:06
Um- Yeah, he, he'd always- But you knew right away it was bad.
12:09
Well- Like, when it first started, you were like, "This
12:11
is not right." Well, yeah.
12:12
I mean, uh, yeah, uh, yeah, it was, it was violent.
12:15
I mean, he would, he would do violence.
12:16
I mean- Wow … vi- it was, it was, it was not just molesting in the sense like-
12:21
Yeah … having sex with the children.
12:23
No, no, no.
12:24
Right.
12:24
It was rape.
12:25
No, I mean brutal rape.
12:27
Wow.
12:27
So, you know, no, obviously this was not g- I mean, I, I, I, I, of
12:31
course, I was panicked about- Of course … uh, uh, that happening again.
12:35
Yeah.
12:35
You know, it just happened about… Uh, to me, it just happened about,
12:38
I don't know, maybe three, may- uh, three, maybe four times.
12:42
Okay.
12:42
But still, that's, yeah.
12:44
Uh, yeah, something.
12:45
But, but, but that ti- that, that happened because he, he arranged
12:48
that the, um, supervise, I mean, the super in the building- Okay
12:53
you know?
12:53
Uh, he had a nephew that came to visit- Mm-hmm … and blah, blah, blah,
12:58
and then the nephew, and so anyway.
13:00
I, I mean, I… When it happened, I told my dad, and then, and my dad
13:04
said, "Oh, no, no. Well, I mean, let me see. I'll try to see, fix
13:07
it," or… I don't, I don't know.
13:08
It's a we- weird thing.
13:10
But the thing is there, the, after, after the third or fourth time, I
13:13
can't remember, a neighbor- From the building, caught him, to, I
13:18
mean, take him in, into this room-
13:20
where he did the- Right … deed.
13:21
It was right there in the building.
13:23
And, and he told my father.
13:24
But the thing is- Your father didn't care for other- No, well,
13:27
he said, "Oh, well, I don't know.
13:29
I mean," uh, uh, I mean, and he, he was like, "What's, let's go
13:32
to the police," and all that.
13:33
Yeah.
13:33
And that, that's where my father was really smart in that sense because
13:37
the thing is people would say, "Well, I mean, maybe they're not doing this
13:40
because that's because they're American."
13:42
No?
13:42
Yeah.
13:43
They're gringos.
13:43
Yeah.
13:44
No, that, that's, that's kinda… I think that when, when all these weird
13:47
things would happen, no, in family- You're separate from the rest of
13:50
the people … and friends and yeah- It's like, "Oh, they're American."
13:51
Yeah … like my mom… Yeah, when, when, when people didn't understand what
13:53
my mom was really trying to say- Right
13:55
they would say, "Oh, well, I mean, uh…" Yeah.
13:56
Because she had an accent all her life.
13:58
Sure.
13:58
So, so a strong, more or less strong a- accent in Spanish.
14:02
So, uh, so yeah, I, I guess they just said, "Oh, that,
14:05
that's just American." Huh.
14:07
You know, so the American way, no?
14:08
And so, uh- Do you think that he moved here and you all moved here
14:12
in part because of like that?
14:14
Uh, yeah, j- it's the only story that makes sense.
14:16
Right.
14:16
No, and after, after it came out that, uh, I mean, because I, I knew
14:19
about my brother, but, uh, you know, about me and my… I said, "Well,
14:22
but my brother, that was years ago." But then I saw that he continued.
14:26
And also he died, and we sold his computers.
14:29
Mm-hmm.
14:30
Dun, dun, dun.
14:31
Mm-hmm.
14:31
No?
14:32
And then, uh, okay, and then somebody opened it.
14:35
Mm-hmm.
14:36
And so anyway, so, uh- That's rough, dude.
14:39
I'm sorry.
14:40
Yeah, well- Yeah … yeah, I know.
14:41
I mean- I mean, everybody's got childhood trauma, but you got childhood trauma.
14:44
Yeah.
14:45
Yeah, yeah.
14:45
I mean, have the trauma… I mean, like my, my sister didn't have a good
14:48
time at all either and she- Did she?
14:50
Did she, did her dad, your dad wasn't into her… Okay.
14:53
No, but I, but, but, but I mean, she, he, he made her cover up,
14:58
I mean- Sh- … unconsciously.
14:59
I mean, she didn't real- Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah … she didn't
15:01
tell her all that and all that.
15:02
Yeah.
15:02
Yeah, I mean, I told her once, and then, uh, she said, "Oh
15:07
my God. No, that's horrible."
15:08
And yeah, she didn't really register it.
15:10
Sure, I mean, what's she gonna do?
15:11
And then I confronted my father in front of her.
15:14
We went to a family therapy when my, uh, my, my brother had big, uh, drug problems-
15:21
Drug problems, right … and all that.
15:22
And there I confronted my father in front of my sister and my mom, and I said,
15:26
"Well, I mean, you did this, this, this.
15:28
I mean, you, you knew this and all that." And, uh, I didn't say about
15:31
my brother because he didn't show up.
15:32
He wasn't there, yeah.
15:33
So, so I didn't say that.
15:34
I mean, that was his story to tell.
15:35
Yeah, that's his story to tell.
15:36
But, uh, but yeah, I mean, I told it and, and my father ju- uh, but when, I mean,
15:41
actually he just said, "Well, I mean," as when I, when I told him, I mean,
15:44
"Why, why wouldn't you stop it, and why would you send me to this guy again?"
15:47
"Well, it's just that I had much, uh, to, man, just, uh, too much stuff in my mind."
15:51
Uh, you're thinking about other stuff, no?
15:53
Yeah, and the therapist just jumped up and said, "What could
15:56
you have on your mind?" But yeah.
15:57
Right.
15:57
So- No, it just says… I mean, he didn't mind.
16:00
Uh, he didn't care.
16:00
He didn't give a shit.
16:01
So it's- So he's just been outed as a child molester to his, to his
16:05
kid, and he didn't really see…
16:07
It wasn't, it didn't really phase him.
16:08
Nope.
16:08
Wow.
16:09
And, and for- and his wife Wow.
16:11
And what did the- And among… Yeah … what did the therapist say?
16:13
Oh, he, he was just completely shocked.
16:16
I mean- Of course.
16:17
Yeah.
16:17
Yeah.
16:18
And after that, I mean, l- l- my sister told me that, I mean, she was sorry.
16:22
I mean, it was… And I, I understand.
16:24
I mean, I don't blame her.
16:25
Just that she said, "Well, when you told me, I mean, I kinda believe you,
16:30
but I kind of, since I hoped that it wasn't true-" Sure, of course.
16:33
It's gotta be a hard thing to process.
16:34
Yeah, exactly.
16:35
But just l- seeing my, I mean, looking at my father just, uh, saying, "Yeah,
16:40
but sure, happened, but so what?
16:43
I mean, I was busy." And, and yeah, she, she, she couldn't believe it.
16:47
B- uh, and I didn't have, I mean, I, I didn't have much family in any way.
16:50
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
16:50
I mean, I didn't have any support from other places.
16:52
Yeah, no.
16:53
I get it.
16:53
So it was really hard.
16:55
Um- Are, are you still close with your sister?
16:57
Yeah.
16:58
I mean, w- it's been…
16:59
I mean, after… I, I guess she kind of, after the years, kind of assumed
17:04
that maybe my father had lied.
17:06
Because he would do that.
17:07
Oh, really?
17:08
He, he would confess stuff.
17:10
No?
17:10
When, when we got c- when he got caught, he would confess, "Oh, yeah, I'm sorry
17:14
I did this, but I won't do it again," and all that, and blah, blah, blah.
17:17
And then say, "Oh, I confessed because your brother was pressuring me." And
17:20
so you think that she believes, like, doesn't think anything happened again?
17:25
I don't know.
17:26
I- That's n- I mean, it makes sense … yeah.
17:27
Like, it's human nature, right?
17:28
Sure.
17:28
I mean, you don't wanna believe the worst thing, and it's gotta be- Yeah
17:30
an impossible thing to even reckon with that.
17:32
When did you start to… I don't mean to… If you wanna stop
17:35
talking about this, we can stop.
17:36
Yeah.
17:36
No, no, no.
17:36
But, like, when did you start to reckon with this, like, as- Oh … an adult?
17:40
Well, the, the, the thing is, when I was, uh, 15, um, I, I had
17:47
been for a while, I can remember.
17:49
I mean, first I had this, I invented the kale, no?
17:53
And I invented… Because- I see … I, I was really, really withdrawn.
17:57
Mm-hmm.
17:58
Com- I'm sure.
17:58
Yeah … pletely.
17:58
I mean, I, I, I probably had something from childhood, something that fr-
18:03
because, uh, I was practically non-verbal until I was six, I've been told.
18:07
I, I am on the spectrum.
18:09
I'm in the autism spectrum, uh, m- I'm at… But the thing is, uh, bec- I know
18:13
that because when I was about 15, uh, after a while, I mean, I kinda realized,
18:17
nope, something's not right with me.
18:19
I mean, I'm not, I'm not… Uh, this is not just me not- Whatever.
18:24
I mean, uh, th- this is not- Right … I'm not, I'm not- Right … I'm not okay.
18:26
No.
18:27
And- Right … I don't know.
18:28
I'm, I guess I was smart enough or s- whatever I, I mean, I imagine
18:31
it's a combination of many things, but- Yeah … like, you know, the,
18:33
the trauma and, like, who knows what else contributed- Ex- exactly … to
18:36
other things, but yeah So on top of it- Yeah, yeah, yeah … or whatever.
18:37
Yeah.
18:38
Yeah, so.
18:38
Well, and, and, and, uh, uh, schizophrenia has a p- my mom probably was- Oh,
18:42
your mom's probably schizophrenic?
18:43
Yeah … yeah, was probably schizophrenic.
18:44
I mean, she never had a diagnosis, but I'm pretty sure.
18:47
Yeah.
18:47
And, uh, so yeah, I mean, I have the genetic things and all that.
18:50
So- But, uh, so at 15, I, I, I decided I had to go to therapy.
18:54
Well, of course, was a big no-no for my father.
18:56
But, like, my mom would have these moments of
18:59
I, I mean, she, she, she was very … Like, she, if she gave a,
19:03
gave an order, everybody would do it.
19:05
No?
19:05
Sure.
19:05
She, she, mostly she was just locked up in a room.
19:07
Right.
19:08
But then suddenly a scream would come out of the room and- Right
19:10
… "Bring me food," or da, da, da.
19:12
Yeah, yeah.
19:12
And everybody would have to move and st- take it.
19:14
No?
19:14
So sometimes she would, she would say, I mean, "Bring me money." No?
19:19
And then she would have money.
19:20
Right.
19:20
So she was g- she would give me money under the, kind of under the table.
19:24
Well, I mean, she could do it openly- Sure.
19:26
Sure, sure … because my father would never say anything.
19:27
But, uh, but it, she didn't tell my father.
19:30
And so I don't know how many years that went, but about three,
19:33
four years until my father found out that I was going to therapy.
19:36
Uh, but I had to, I had to do it behind be- behind his back.
19:40
I, I also had to do it behind my, my sister's back because she, she
19:43
also said, "No, no, no," my … It, it, it would be, we would betray
19:46
my father if we go to therapy.
19:47
Right, right, right.
19:48
And I, I told her that- That's crazy town.
19:49
Yeah.
19:49
Yeah.
19:50
Well, I mean, I- God forbid we betray your father.
19:52
Yeah.
19:52
Well, I, uh, I mean, I, I don't … It's just- No, I get it.
19:55
I get it.
19:55
It's horrible for- It's just, like- Yeah … dysfunction begets dysfunction,
19:58
and it's just kinda crazy how these- Yeah.
20:00
… this dysfunction just kind of spreads into this spider web of kind of like,
20:04
oh, we've gotta, you know- Yeah.
20:05
Yeah … on, and on, and on.
20:06
Yeah.
20:06
So.
20:07
No, no, no, I mean, I, I, I, I, I mean, my, my, my, my sister's
20:10
just, uh, also strong as hell.
20:13
No, I mean to- Yeah … to just live- I'm sure … her life and just
20:15
to be alive because- Well, I mean, the fact that you're- Our brother,
20:17
our, our brother is not alive.
20:18
So I mean, like- Oh, okay … just living, being alive right now after
20:23
all that is just- I mean, yeah
20:25
kind of a- For sure, dude … that's a, that's a victory.
20:26
Just- Yeah.
20:27
You're still doing it … okay, yeah.
20:27
You're still living.
20:28
Exactly.
20:28
And then, and- And you seem good to me when I, I didn't- Yeah … you know.
20:31
You- Yeah, no, no, I, I- I mean, I had no idea.
20:32
Yeah.
20:32
Yeah, which is g- kinda wasn't- I mean, well done, sir. That's all I'm saying.
20:36
Yeah.
20:36
It's like that's trauma that I don't think I could, a lot of people could overcome.
20:38
Yeah.
20:38
No.
20:38
And that's- No.
20:39
The same, my brother couldn't.
20:40
No.
20:40
So- Yeah, no … uh, so yeah.
20:42
No, no, no.
20:43
So, so yeah, no, you have to be really tough and, and, uh, mostly because,
20:48
uh, uh, I guess, uh, I got- The smarts from my mom Right So- Right
20:54
I, I was very smart, you know, since I was, uh, little.
20:58
Uh, something that I've learned to say out loud because it was, it's, it's-
21:02
Absolutely … it ta- took, took me- Own it, bro … a lot of time Own it Yeah.
21:05
But also I, I, I… Since I didn't understand what was going
21:08
on either in the house and the, in the school because I r- Right
21:11
I do remember people talking to me in this strange language, and I couldn't
21:14
be… Nobody spoke English at the school.
21:16
Uh-huh.
21:16
So, uh, I don't know, just try to figure out things and seeing the patterns.
21:21
I was terribly bullied and, uh… But, like, for, to avoid being
21:26
bullied when it was, uh, the recess, now I would run into the library.
21:30
Me too.
21:31
And, uh, so I, so I read the whole library.
21:34
No, I mean over the- Yeah, yeah, yeah Yeah.
21:36
I didn't read the whole library, but I would- No … I would hide in the library.
21:38
I'm just- Yeah, yeah.
21:39
Yeah.
21:39
Anyway, KO, uh, we can stop talking about the family stuff, but
21:42
again- Yeah … I'm really sorry.
21:43
I appreciate you talking about it, but, like- No, no, no
21:45
I'm so sorry.
21:45
That's, that's gotta be hard.
21:46
Like- Yeah … do you feel like you've… Like, where are you now with it?
21:49
Oh, uh, uh, I mean, I… S- since I've been in therapy since I was 15,
21:54
and I'll probably- Yeah … stay in therapy- Good job … since I was- Of
21:56
course … since- Everybody should be in therapy- Well, I- … all the time
21:58
again, my history, I mean, it's… And, and also, I mean, I, I, I, I
22:03
have been, uh, on medication since- Sure … s- Yeah … uh, late 20s now.
22:07
I mean- I mean- Yeah … thank God these things exist.
22:09
Oh, yeah.
22:09
Because how do we- No, no, no.
22:10
I mean, I, I, I, uh, it took me some time to accept that I had to take
22:15
medication because- Yeah … uh, the side effects are not- No
22:18
no, they're no fun.
22:19
Yeah.
22:19
So, so yeah, I mean, I, I, I take that.
22:21
And so being in, in, in therapy, I kind of dealed with it and, uh, and, and all that.
22:26
And I think what, one thing that surprises a lot of people is that
22:30
whe- uh, in 2009 my, uh, when my, when my father got sick and all
22:34
that, so he lost, uh, half his lung.
22:37
Oh, wow.
22:38
And- Did he smoke?
22:38
… he also had… Yeah, he was smoking.
22:40
Right.
22:40
But he, uh, he had an infection in his liver that kind of
22:43
grown- Was he a drinker?
22:45
No.
22:46
Oh, no.
22:46
No, actually he didn't drink.
22:47
Just like Trump.
22:50
No, no, no.
22:50
I mean, no.
22:51
That's not a wonderful thing to compare your father to Trump,
22:52
but it's all right, yeah, yeah.
22:53
Yeah.
22:53
Uh, it's a, it's a thing about control.
22:55
They don't, they don't wanna lose control.
22:56
Right.
22:57
Right.
22:57
So, so that- That's, that's an interesting point.
22:58
Yeah … so, so he doesn't, he didn't take any drugs- Yeah … or
23:00
anything because, because he d- he, he'd like to be in control.
23:03
Right.
23:03
Right, right.
23:03
So, uh … Well, that's my explanation, but, uh
23:06
So when he, he, he got sick, so he's really bad and all that.
23:09
So, I don't know, a few years ago, I, I mean, my mothe- my mom died.
23:14
Uh, my, well, my brother passed away, and then, then my mom passed away.
23:19
And so my father was alone in a big house that had two, f- uh, stories.
23:24
See.
23:25
And, um, uh, it was a big, nice house.
23:28
Sure.
23:29
And, uh, so I kinda decided- In Mexico City?
23:31
Mexico City.
23:32
Okay.
23:32
Yeah, in the so- in south of Mexico City.
23:33
So I, I, I, I, I had to move and, uh, I don't know, I didn't know a place,
23:39
and my father w- I mean, he was alone.
23:41
So I s- I just said, "Oh, okay. Well, well, I'll just grab, I'll,
23:44
I'll, I'll remodel." I mean, the house was a little bit torn down.
23:47
Yeah.
23:47
And I said, "Well, I'll remodel it and make a duplex. No- Uh-huh … just
23:50
two houses- Yeah, yeah, yeah … and then we'll do all that, and then I
23:53
can live in the upstairs, he can live downstairs- Yeah. Yeah, yeah … until
23:55
he leaves, and then when he dies, then we can move," blah, blah, blah.
23:57
I mean, I'm impressed.
23:58
Like, did you forgive him?
24:00
Well, no.
24:00
In your brain.
24:01
I mean, I, I think, I think I got to a place where it's like,
24:04
well, what he did is unforgivable.
24:06
But, like, acceptance.
24:07
But acceptance, yes.
24:08
Because the thing is, when I moved in t- with him, I mean, on the f- top r- I,
24:13
I … Well, it, it was to take care of him, and, and, and I, I try to m- make him
24:17
live like a human being because, uh, w- I, I had a, a therapist, uh, that, that
24:24
I, I've been through several- Yeah, me too
24:25
over the years.
24:26
Yeah.
24:26
But, uh, he, he said something that really, really kind of, uh, made a point.
24:30
They said, "Well, I mean-" Don't pay abandonment and abuse with
24:36
more abandonment and abuse Yes.
24:37
Absolutely So I said, "Oh, okay." So I try to started taking, taking care
24:41
of him so that he would live like, like, uh, in a, in like, uh, in a
24:45
dignified way as a human being- No, that's- And, uh, to whatever I could.
24:51
So, but just to show a, a little bit like, like, like, like-
24:54
Honestly, yeah … in your face.
24:54
No, I'm a better man than you No, not even that.
24:56
Wow.
24:56
I mean, it's just, it's, it's like this… Honestly, it's the best response
25:01
you could give to that situation.
25:02
Like, that's the adult response is like- Yeah … number one, you accept,
25:06
okay, we're all doing the best we can.
25:08
Yeah.
25:08
Some people's best is pretty fucking terrible, right?
25:11
But like we've all just gotta accept it.
25:13
This is the best that they can do.
25:15
Yeah.
25:15
And like you responding to that, like most people I think would respond to that
25:18
with like, "Fuck you. I'm never talking to you again. You fucking…" You know?
25:22
But like I mean kudos, bro.
25:24
Like- Yeah … way to step up into the pl- I mean, you stepped up to the plate
25:27
and that's like it- Yeah … it, it touches me in a way that I can't… Yeah.
25:32
Yeah.
25:32
Well done.
25:32
Yeah.
25:33
Thank, no, thank you.
25:33
Thank you.
25:33
You did the right thing.
25:34
Yeah.
25:35
No.
25:35
You did the right thing.
25:35
I, I, I, uh, I always, I always say that, I mean, I have this problem of
25:39
identity, so it's really difficult to say like what, what do I want to be?
25:43
W- I never knew what I wanted to be in life, so I've been everything,
25:46
a little bit of everything- Yep … and do this and that.
25:48
Uh, but uh, but the only thing I think I n- I kind of can say is
25:52
that on my, on my epitaph, no?
25:54
I, I, in my s- my headstone, I could- Yeah … I want, I want it to say, "No,
25:58
here lies a good guy." Oh, f- absolutely.
26:01
That's it.
26:01
Yeah.
26:02
No, I, I don't, I don't, I, I, uh … And, and it's kind of weird but I, I mean
26:05
kind of, uh, some people might say, I mean, maybe my daughter would say,
26:08
"Well, not in … I mean, don't you want it to say good bye father?" But I
26:11
mean, she, she, she's, she's old enough.
26:13
But uh, it's, yeah, she, she, she- Right, right, right
26:15
her birthday is, she's gonna have her 20 and 29th birthday tomorrow.
26:18
Well, birthday party.
26:19
Uh.
26:19
She's- Wow … tomorrow, so, so no, I mean … But no, we, we, we talk
26:23
a lot about- Yeah, yeah, yeah … I mean, I, I wasn't, I mean, I, I, the
26:27
only thing I've tried to say is that I was the best father I could be.
26:30
Of course.
26:30
And I think, I think, I think she believes, I think she knows that.
26:34
Yeah.
26:34
I mean, but, uh, but no, I mean, but yeah, I mean, there was a lot
26:37
of, uh- A inconsistency and- Of course … yeah Everybody's doing the
26:41
best they can No, no, no, but I, yeah.
26:43
So, so I did my best and, uh… But yeah, I mean, uh, she, she had a tough time
26:48
growing up Well, I mean, you, given the template that you were given as- Yeah
26:50
what a father is, it's an, a, a, yeah, yeah.
26:52
Yeah.
26:53
So when did you leave Mexico City and go back to the States?
26:56
Oh, I, I, I, I never re- I, I mean, I, i- in high school when, uh, w- because,
27:01
um, when I got into high school, they, they, for, for mid- middle school,
27:07
they didn't ask, secundaria, they didn't, they didn't ask for papers.
27:09
Okay Because it was by, uh, it was f- I don't know, the law, whatever.
27:13
Whatever.
27:14
But, uh, but yeah.
27:14
And so for high school, they did ask for, uh, for papers, and that's when
27:19
I found out that I didn't have them.
27:20
I didn't know that we, I didn't have any- Oh, you were on tou- you didn't know you
27:22
were on a tourist visa the whole time
27:23
yeah, exactly.
27:24
Yeah.
27:24
So, so, so finally, I mean, I, I walk into the high school.
27:28
I had, uh, which the high school was, was, I had gone through
27:32
middle school in the same school, so it was just kind of next year.
27:35
Okay, now, so, so middle school then became high school, but
27:38
exactly the same school, teachers.
27:41
So were you going on visa runs, though?
27:43
No.
27:43
No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.
27:45
I never, I never went to the States.
27:46
After, after we came here, I, I- So they were illegally
27:49
living here- Yes … basically.
27:50
Okay.
27:51
That's- Yeah … I am somewhat American in a sense,
27:52
yeah … American-Mexican dreamer.
27:53
Right.
27:54
All right.
27:54
Yeah I get it.
27:54
Completely illegal.
27:55
Okay.
27:55
Now I, now I get it No papers.
27:57
Now I get it.
27:57
No papers whatsoever.
27:58
So we, we ne- I never went to the States- So they over, your parents
28:01
basically overstayed your tourist visa.
28:02
Yeah.
28:02
Yeah.
28:02
Exactly.
28:03
For- Many, many years … 50 Yeah, yeah, yeah … or for about 13 years.
28:07
And, uh, so then after that, we, we ne- we had to get papers.
28:11
Yep And, uh, and also it coincided that a few months later, you know, uh, the
28:17
migra, you know, the immigration- Okay
28:19
showed up at our house and- Oh, well that's a good sign … and so,
28:23
so that kind of… So then, yeah, we had to take a bus to El Paso-
28:28
Uh-huh … which is the closest.
28:30
Right.
28:30
Uh, yeah, go there.
28:31
We just- It's a long bus ride … yeah.
28:33
Well, well, it was to Brownsville, actually.
28:35
It was Matamoros- Beautiful … yeah … beautiful this time of year.
28:37
Yeah, Brownsville.
28:38
Well, and- I'm kidding … we just cross, I don't know.
28:40
Yeah.
28:40
We just cross the border and cross back.
28:42
Okay And, uh, just cross the border, went to the consulate and- Oh, they
28:46
went to the consulate in Brownsville … took out another visa and come back.
28:48
Yeah, yeah, yeah … yeah … run back And, uh, but so yeah, when, when I started
28:52
going to the, to the States, it's was, uh, yeah, I mean, to me it was really weird.
28:57
I mean, I, like at that time, um, in Mexico, I think in Mexico
29:03
City, there was probably like three escalators in the city.
29:07
And I remember that was just- How many elevators were there?
29:10
Oh, but elevators are well known … elevators were f- before-
29:11
Yeah, no, escalators … they were before escalators, yeah.
29:14
Yeah, yeah Escalators, yeah Those were from the 19th century Which makes sense
29:16
because you're just, like, pushing…
29:17
Yeah, yeah.
29:17
Yeah, yeah, 19th century.
29:18
And so yeah, they're more complicated, yeah.
29:20
It's like matches came after lighters.
29:22
Yeah.
29:22
Oh.
29:22
Yeah.
29:23
Yeah.
29:23
It's an interesting, yeah.
29:24
That, that I didn't know.
29:25
It's true story.
29:25
Yeah.
29:26
Yeah.
29:27
Um, but, uh, so yeah, l- just… I mean, to me, the United
29:32
States was Disneyland all over.
29:34
Um- Oh, right, right, right
29:35
I mean, it's, everything was- Yeah … wonderful and polished- Yes, yes,
29:39
yes … and happy and- Yes … whatever.
29:41
Like- Of course, yes … well, and, uh, yeah, I mean, the, the Americans actually,
29:44
they, they, they make a point of making it nice now and, and- What do you mean?
29:50
Well, I, well, especially because I, I, I, I went to, like, San Francisco, but
29:54
I'm talking about- Oh, San Francisco
29:56
decades ago Great town.
29:57
Yeah, deca- Yeah … decades ago.
29:58
But yeah, I mean, you, you look at the San F- the Victorian houses in San Francisco-
30:02
Uh-huh … yeah, it looks like, in a way it looks, like, a little bit like Disney.
30:05
I mean- No, it's true … uh, yeah.
30:06
Well, the simul- yeah, the word- Yeah … simulacra comes to mind, right?
30:09
Yeah.
30:09
Right, right, right.
30:10
Exactly.
30:10
Yeah.
30:10
So I, I… And we did go to Disneyland the first time I w- I, I went there Right.
30:14
I've never been to- So- I've been to Disney World, but not Disneyland.
30:16
Yeah.
30:17
Yeah.
30:17
But actually I haven't been to Disney World, so.
30:18
I think they're about the same, basically.
30:19
Yeah, and pro- and probably, uh, in Florida it's, uh, the, it's less
30:24
sunny and less hot because- Uh-
30:26
Anaheim is awful … it's pretty, it's pretty horrible in Florida.
30:30
I don't know if you've spent too much time- Yeah … in Florida, but they
30:32
get- No, I, I, well, I have been, uh- Like, 95 and humid, uh, every day in
30:36
the summer Yeah … it's horrible.
30:37
Yeah.
30:37
Pretty horrible.
30:37
Well, yeah, I, I've only been twice into Miami, uh, for, but just for conventions.
30:43
Yeah.
30:43
Not scientific, but- It's muggy there … conventions.
30:45
And, uh, the second time we, we got hit by a hurricane, so.
30:51
Well, then it was windy too, and muggy.
30:53
Yeah, it was, it was windy and wet and… Yeah.
30:55
Yeah.
30:55
So, uh, well, it was, it was an interesting experience because- Yeah
30:59
… whatever Oh, I love extreme weather.
31:00
I'm a big fan.
31:01
Yeah.
31:01
Yeah.
31:01
I, I, I, I, I, I, I learned to live my life without r- really fearing
31:06
all this stuff because it was- Right, because of your childhood.
31:08
Yeah, yeah.
31:09
Yeah.
31:09
And, and, and, and, uh, I mean, one, uh, the, the one thing it,
31:12
it, it did to me is, uh, made me hypervigil- vigilant, you know?
31:16
That, that- Okay … that's a very common thing with trauma.
31:18
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
31:18
You know?
31:18
I mean- Yeah … hypervigilant.
31:20
Like, like, I, uh, I mean, I walk into a room and I already know
31:25
where the exits are and whatever.
31:26
I, I, I- … but I'm not over, uh, when you said, you know, you send me a
31:30
message, I don't know what we were talking about, but on, on, on the WhatsApp, you
31:34
said, "Don't overthink it," you know?
31:35
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
31:36
And I said, "Oh, no, no, no. Forget about it." I mean, that's what I do.
31:38
I mean- Oh, no, I do too … because knowing stuff actually makes me calm.
31:42
So, like, to give context, I only started- Meeting with Americans, with gringos- Yeah
31:49
… no, uh, because since I haven't found a job for more than two years now- Oh, okay
31:54
I might have to move to the States.
31:56
Right.
31:56
So I never sought Americans because I didn't really feel… I, I don't know.
32:02
I mean, the why?
32:02
I mean, no, I, I, I mean- You feel like a Mexican.
32:05
Yeah.
32:05
Okay.
32:06
I, I, I, as I say, I mean, my whole life is a id- identity crisis, so I don't
32:11
know if I, I, I, I can observe myself.
32:15
I, I, I really like your, your analogy, like, if you're, when you're in the
32:19
bottle, you can't see the label.
32:21
When you're inside the- Yeah, inside the- You can't see the
32:23
label when you're inside the jar.
32:23
Yeah, exactly.
32:24
Yeah.
32:24
That, that one.
32:25
Yeah, I really love that.
32:25
It's not mine.
32:26
It's somebody else's.
32:26
Well, I know- I stole it, yeah … but, but that you s- you mentioned.
32:29
No, it's a good one.
32:29
I- It's a good one … it's the first time I've heard it, so, so.
32:31
No, it's a good one.
32:31
Yeah.
32:32
So anyway, uh, but, but I, I really like it because I say that's kind of a thing.
32:36
I mean, I'm, I'm just, I don't know, floating around here pickled, no,
32:40
and, and trying to figure out stuff.
32:43
But, but, but there's a label outside that people see that I don't, that I
32:49
can't see, and I, all my life, I've been trying to figure out what it says.
32:53
And the problem is that a lot of people tell me so many different things.
32:57
I mean, they say, "Oh, you're a gringo.
32:58
You're a Mexican.
32:59
You're this.
33:00
You're that." Yeah. "You're a scientist.
33:01
You're a, a, you're an artist.
33:03
You're a philosopher." Yeah, yeah, yeah. "You're an intellectual."
33:05
Yeah. "You're a teacher.
33:05
You're a this.
33:06
You're a that." And the thing is nothing… I mean, I, I wouldn't mind,
33:12
I don't mind trying to, if I, if I, I, I mean, I'd really like to kind of hang on
33:17
to something and, and just say, "Okay, this is what my label says, so I'll work
33:21
with that." But that's gonna change.
33:23
I mean, your labels- Well- … can be anything.
33:25
I mean, it's not- Yeah
33:25
that's the thing is like the label i- that, that should be another part of
33:29
the whole saying is like it, it's hard to see the label when you're inside
33:32
the jar, but, like, everybody's gonna read a different label on you, right?
33:34
Yeah.
33:34
Something like that.
33:35
Uh, and that's okay, right?
33:37
It's so interesting, though, like the…
33:40
I mean, if we really wanna get into the, the you you and
33:44
the you that they are you-ing.
33:46
Yeah.
33:46
You know what I mean?
33:48
I had to do a self-portrait when I was in film school.
33:50
Oh.
33:50
And I had no idea what to do, and so what I ended up doing is I ended up
33:54
calling all of these friends and family that I'd known for many years and
33:57
saying, "Leave me a voicemail message."
33:58
This was in, uh, 2006, 2000 whatever, yeah.
34:03
So I said, "Leave me a voicemail message just talking about something
34:05
about me that you remember. Tell me a memory about me." And, and I was
34:09
like, oh, I'm gonna do a self-portrait based on what others see me as, right?
34:13
Because I think that's a big part of what our identity is in some
34:15
ways for a lot of people, right?
34:17
Yeah.
34:17
It's like the, the thing, the way that people see me and the way that I see
34:20
myself is, it, it intermingles, right?
34:24
Yeah.
34:24
Not to get too esoteric here, but- No … uh- Mm … it's an interesting
34:28
angle, um, especially when we're talking about the label ins- the, the label on
34:32
the jar thing because to me, it's mostly about perspective and just saying- Like
34:37
having been here for, what, seven or eight weeks now, it's not easy, right?
34:41
It's fucking hard.
34:42
It's fucking hard.
34:43
It's great and hard, and then it gets hard, and then it's great.
34:46
But, like, I'm by myself so much that it's very hard for me to have
34:50
perspective on the fact that, like, I'm fucking… I fucking d- l- sold
34:54
all my shit and moved to Mexico.
34:55
Like- … you, you do remember that, Jef.
34:57
You did that.
34:58
Yeah.
34:58
And this is gonna be hard.
34:59
You remember.
35:00
Yeah.
35:00
Anyway.
35:01
So did you ever live in the States?
35:02
Nope.
35:03
No, the, the long- Oh, I didn't know that.
35:04
I thought you lived in the States, yeah.
35:05
The longest stints that I've had is, uh, two months with, uh, my aunt when she
35:11
was in Houston after, uh, in high school.
35:13
Yeah.
35:14
I, I mean, when, when we started- Yeah, yeah, yeah
35:16
be a- to be able to travel to the States.
35:17
Right.
35:18
Yeah, we, my parents went, and I kinda went with some.
35:21
Yeah.
35:22
And I stayed two months in San Francisco but, uh, working.
35:27
I was in San Francisco General- Eh … uh, working as a scientist.
35:30
And, uh, but other than that, just like, uh, one week meeting
35:35
stuff or whatever Yeah, so maybe you should move to the States for
35:38
like a year, just see how it is.
35:39
I'm not saying it's- Yeah … you're gonna enjoy it, 'cause you probably won't.
35:41
You're probably gonna be like, "It's too expensive. It's … People
35:44
are…" Yeah, but- Yeah.
35:45
I, I, I mean, I … The most likely place that I would go, I mean, the, the one
35:48
place I kind of planned to go was, uh, LA.
35:52
Yeah.
35:52
Koreatown- Okay … which is, uh, uh, which is kind of in
35:55
the middle of Mexican- Mm-hmm
35:57
place because- Yeah … I, I … And, and because the, when I've, when I've
36:01
stayed in, in, in the States for a week or two, whatever, I mean, when I start
36:05
mingling, no, in the States- Yeah, yeah … um, I always end up with the Mexicans.
36:11
Yeah.
36:12
Yeah.
36:12
Of course.
36:12
Of course.
36:13
Right.
36:13
I mean, so, yeah.
36:13
So, so I sort of- You got your comfort zone.
36:14
You gotta go.
36:15
Yeah.
36:15
Yeah, yeah.
36:16
Yeah, I mean, because, yeah, I, I, that's … Yeah, the, the, those are my people.
36:20
No, I mean, it's just, just, just this feeling that I, that I, that … And
36:24
it, it, it is, it's kinda, it's kinda nice when I, when I, when I mingle
36:28
with Mexicans in, in the States because here in Mexico I'm a gringo.
36:32
Of course.
36:32
And it is real- it doesn't matter how much paperwork you do.
36:36
It doesn't matter- Yeah … how many- Yeah … 50 years or- No, you're always gonna
36:39
be- … 50 odd years- You're always gonna be … Yeah … and whatever, all that.
36:41
I mean, I've never s- I, I don't know what the American anthem sounds like.
36:47
I mean, uh- Oh, do you want me to sing it for you?
36:49
Well, uh, yeah, I mean, I, I know there's, uh- … Jose, can you see?
36:52
No.
36:53
Yeah, no.
36:53
Yeah, whatever, yeah.
36:54
So, so but, but just something like that.
36:58
No, I don't know.
36:58
But I, but I mean, I did have to sing the Mexican national anthem-
37:02
Oh, Cielito Lindo … every Monday.
37:02
I don't, I don't, I don't know that one.
37:03
No, I mean, I, uh, but I have to sing it every Monday on, in school.
37:07
Oh.
37:07
How does it go?
37:08
Mexicanos al grito de guerra.
37:12
What are the, what are the … So what does that mean?
37:13
Um, Mexicans- I got that part … at, at the sound of war take arms.
37:19
Uh, no, it's a very belli- It's a- Oh, yeah … patriotic.
37:22
Yeah, yeah.
37:22
No, no, it's one of the most- Take arms.
37:23
Yeah … Oh, yeah.
37:24
No, no, no.
37:24
And, uh- Kill the, uh, kill the, kill the bad people.
37:27
Yeah.
37:27
No.
37:27
Yeah, yeah.
37:27
It's, it's really … Yeah.
37:29
No.
37:29
That checks out.
37:30
Well, I mean, it's a, it's a state, it's a country that has dealt
37:33
with more, uh … It's, it's a conquered country- Yeah … really.
37:38
And that's one of the most interesting things that I've found
37:40
since I've been here, is to think about this whole America's the
37:44
country of the conquerors- Yeah
37:46
and Mexico's very much the country of the conquered in many ways.
37:50
Yeah.
37:50
And I think that's why Mexico and Spanish has more words for
37:53
love than, than America does.
37:55
I think that there's a- Yeah … direct connection there
37:57
I think it's all very interesting.
37:59
So you married a Mexican woman?
38:00
Yeah, yeah.
38:01
So I marry, I married and I was, um- And you were how old?
38:05
27. 27. Yeah.
38:06
And we'd been living together for about three years.
38:09
Okay.
38:09
And I, I was a little bit worried about… I, I, I didn't know if
38:14
I wanted to have, uh, children.
38:15
I mean- Sure, nobody does … because- Right … yeah, yeah … because of
38:17
all the things, especially with that.
38:18
Yeah.
38:19
Yeah.
38:19
So, um, but everybody kept saying that I would be a great dad.
38:23
I mean- Well, I'm sure that that's what everybody either hears, like- So… Yeah
38:25
… and it seems like you'd be a great dad.
38:26
You seem like a dad- Yeah … kind of guy.
38:28
Yeah.
38:28
Well, I mean, I think the decision was hard because I
38:30
knew what it- Yeah … involved.
38:32
Yeah.
38:32
Now, since, I mean, my… I was 15 when, when, when my brother was born,
38:37
so, um, and I also have a, a niece, uh, that's, uh, also, yeah, younger.
38:45
So, but like, uh, I, I… and I don't know, people that I've grew up with
38:50
always had kids, and so- Mm-hmm … so I kinda knew what kids were about.
38:53
Of course.
38:53
I think about, um, my- They're the, they're the people that are
38:56
younger than us that are smaller.
38:58
Yeah.
38:58
That's what kids are about.
38:59
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
38:59
Yeah, no, but it's a, it's a big- And they need things all the time
39:02
responsibility.
39:02
Yeah, they ne- yeah, yeah.
39:02
There are just so many needs.
39:03
Why?
39:03
Oh, oh, oh.
39:04
Just oh, blah, blah.
39:05
Yeah, no, and they stink.
39:06
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
39:06
They sure do.
39:07
Well, I know sometimes they smell nice, but then they, then they-
39:10
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
39:11
I don't know.
39:12
So, so yeah, I mean, the whole thing.
39:14
And then, well, and then they get sick and you're, you're, uh- Yeah.
39:16
And then everybody gets sick- Oh, my God … and then you're like, "Oh,
39:18
you got it." And yeah, no, and you're, you're, you're… I don't know.
39:21
I was a very sick child.
39:21
So, so no, I mean, I was, I, I was very worried about deciding to do it
39:25
because I said, "Well, if I'm gonna do it, I'm gonna do it right." Huh?
39:27
Sure.
39:28
Yeah.
39:28
You gotta.
39:30
I mean, that's what everybody would hope to think.
39:33
So, uh, but, yeah, so, so I did it.
39:33
I mean, so, uh, b- but that's, that's where I am Mexican.
39:34
No, I mean, because, like, not having a child was, would be something
39:40
that my, my ex, uh, would, um, w- w- was a little bit inconceivable, no?
39:49
I mean- Right.
39:49
I get it … because she's, she's a Mexican woman.
39:50
Well, it's like America was- Yeah … 40 years ago, right?
39:53
Yeah.
39:53
How long were you married?
39:55
Uh, 10 years.
39:56
Oh, wow.
39:57
That's a decent amount of time.
39:58
Yeah.
39:58
Yeah.
39:58
My, my daughter was six when we- Mostly good?
40:01
Yeah.
40:02
I mean, uh, we- we're still friends and all.
40:05
And, and it's kind of this, uh- I, uh, at the end it was j- a
40:10
little like, I mean, we don't stand each other, what are we gonna do?
40:14
No, it was- Right … I, I mean, we don't stand each other,
40:17
but that's, that's a problem.
40:18
I mean, it's not that- Of, I mean, yeah.
40:20
I mean, that's the whole difficulty- Yeah … of, of relationships
40:22
in general is it- Yeah … just becomes, eventually it becomes work.
40:25
Yeah.
40:25
Yeah.
40:25
So, so, so, so, so we kind of, I, as am- amicable as, as, as
40:30
possible we- No, that's good.
40:31
Yeah.
40:31
Yeah.
40:31
So, so we're still more or less close.
40:34
I mean, we- All right … uh, I mean, mostly, yeah, we, we, we
40:37
see each other, I, I don't know.
40:40
I mean, we, we have no problem.
40:41
We- Yeah … talk to each other, we see each other.
40:43
I mean, we have a daughter in common, so.
40:44
Right, right, right, right.
40:45
So- Right … so, uh, no, no, no, the, it's all okay.
40:48
So, uh- And your daughter still lives here?
40:50
Yeah.
40:50
Okay.
40:50
She lives in the east of the… She, uh- Right … she, she lives
40:53
on the other side of the city, so.
40:55
Right.
40:55
I, I can, I, I, I, I live on a, in a hill now.
40:58
It's, um- Yeah, on the side of the mountain.
41:00
Yeah, yeah … yeah, the Chicuahuacan, and she lives in Lomas
41:02
de Tarango, which is another hill.
41:04
And, but it's on the other side of the city.
41:06
And- Oh, wow.
41:06
That's a hike … so, so, yeah.
41:07
Yeah.
41:08
I can see the, the, the, the hill there.
41:10
So, so I, this picture of the hill and the- But you can literally
41:12
kind of see- … horizon now.
41:13
And then, yeah, that's why I have to go there to … But yeah, it's like a
41:16
two and a half hour commute- I'm sure
41:18
if you don't have much traffic, so.
41:20
Okay.
41:21
So I'm just gonna say on the, from an outsider, here's,
41:23
here's me looking at your label.
41:24
Yeah, yeah.
41:25
What an interesting story.
41:26
You're born in the United States in Santa Barbara.
41:28
You are just moved to Mexico when you're- Yeah … three years old,
41:32
and end up basically being a Mexican.
41:34
Yep.
41:35
In spite of… You're Mexican blood, though, yeah?
41:37
No.
41:38
Not at all.
41:38
No Mexican blood at all?
41:39
No, not at all.
41:40
Oh, yeah.
41:40
My sister did a 23andMe and, uh, no, no, no, I mean, we're,
41:44
we're, we're, we're white.
41:47
Really, I mean, a little bit, uh, like, like a mixture of C- C- Celtic and Saxon.
41:52
But see, you look a little Mexican, though.
41:54
You looks like, what's his name, the director?
41:56
We talked about that.
41:57
Yeah.
41:57
Uh, uh, Guillermo del Toro.
41:58
Yeah, a little bit.
41:59
Yeah.
41:59
Yeah.
41:59
Okay.
41:59
No, no, I mean, e- every time I, like, like, when I take an Uber or
42:03
a taxi, whatever- Si … and they ask, "Oh," I mean, "where are, where
42:06
are you visiting us from?" No, I mean, "De dónde nos visita, no?"
42:08
Ah, so then you tell them- So I, I always answer Tacubaya, no?
42:11
Which is this barrio, no, I mean, this neighborhood which is… Well, I mean,
42:16
it's just a working class neighborhood.
42:17
I mean- Yeah, yeah, yeah … a working class neighborhood.
42:19
I mean, yeah, j- just kind of… Uh, no, no, no, but, but- But what?
42:23
I live here … I mean, because I, be- because I, I also speak perfect Spanish.
42:26
No, I mean- Si … actually I'm, my Spanish is much better than my English.
42:29
I'm sure.
42:30
But, uh, especially w- w- written Spanish because I never… I mean, all
42:34
my classes, I, I always went to Mexican schools and- Right, of course … so,
42:37
so yeah, I mean- Yeah … I'll, I, I, I don't, I don't know how to conjugate
42:41
verbs and whatever, no- Right.
42:42
So, uh, uh, language acquisition- I mean, I naturally do it, but yeah … yeah.
42:46
What's your favorite thing about living in Mexico City?
42:49
It's, it's kind of hard because I don't have- You don't know, you don't know the
42:51
other things- Yeah, exactly … yeah, yeah I mean, what- Nothing to compare it to.
42:53
Yeah … as compared to what?
42:54
No, I mean- Yeah, yeah, yeah … I mean, all these trips that I've been in, in the
42:58
States, um, like I've, I've, uh, a few times I've stayed with friends, you know?
43:04
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
43:04
And I, so I kind of know- You get the gist … and I talk with- Yeah.
43:07
Yeah, and I, I've become friends with, uh, several people
43:10
from, that live in the States.
43:11
The States.
43:12
Mostly Portuguese and Spaniards and- Of course.
43:14
Of course … uh, so, so yeah.
43:16
But, but some Americans.
43:18
And, uh, so yeah, like, like I- I- I'll, I'll … I under- I've talked about
43:23
what, what's life, and they've come to Mexico- Same … and they, they give me
43:27
that, their opinion of the differences.
43:30
So, so I mean, the de- definitely the whole phenomenologic, I
43:33
mean, the whole experience- Yeah
43:35
subjective experience of- Yeah, yeah, yeah … being in w- there and living and
43:39
doing- Right … supermarket and whatever.
43:40
Porque I lived, I was here- Yeah … for, like, I don't know, a month and a
43:44
half or last year, and then another week, and I've met people here, but
43:50
then living here, it's a different- Yeah … the, the whole experience- Yeah
43:54
is different … no, no, I, I, definitely.
43:55
'Cause you have to make this world yours, and you have to break- Yeah … down
43:58
the walls and actually … Yeah, yeah.
44:00
Yeah, so- And less like a fucking idiot gringo and- Yeah … yeah, yeah.
44:03
Yeah, so I don't … Yeah.
44:05
I mean, I, I think I, I would like to do it on my own terms.
44:08
No, and I- Yeah, of course
44:09
and, uh, the problem is right now- Whose terms would you do it on?
44:12
Oh, I mean, just the choice.
44:14
Oh, right.
44:14
The thing is right now I would like to have a job in Mexico that pays
44:18
enough or, like, become a digital hunter-gatherer- … and a whatever.
44:25
Yeah.
44:26
And, uh, and yeah, I mean, m- m- 'cause, okay, so, so I can do this in
44:30
Mexico or I can do this in whatever.
44:32
Yeah.
44:32
And just go to that whatever and, and, and, and do it, you know?
44:37
But, uh, but right now, I mean, I'm, I'm just … I, like many, many
44:42
Mexicans just saying, "I don't want to leave my country. I have to go because
44:46
I don't have any resources." Yeah.
44:48
"And I have to go get, go to the States to get a job." Yeah.
44:50
So would you- So, so- Yeah.
44:52
Yeah, that's not really fun.
44:54
Would you be an immigrant then or a expat?
44:58
There In America?
45:00
Yeah.
45:01
Oh I think, you know, I mean, this is the biggest conversation Ooh, ooh.
45:03
That's a, that's a, that's a- Because- That's, that's a big question … because
45:05
as I've said, it's like immigrant is, by… to many people, I don't know how
45:11
I feel about it, but immigrant to many people is a elitist perspective, and
45:14
it's basically saying poor people who have to go to another country to exist.
45:18
And immigrants usually integrate with the other culture- Yeah … and basically
45:23
are like, "I'm staying here because," and send money back to the people that
45:26
they came- Yeah … from the country they… Whereas expats are from wealthier
45:30
countries, generally gentrifying- Yeah … countries that they can come in.
45:34
Which I think is gonna be the story of the 21st century, really, is
45:37
international gentrification as opposed to local gentrification.
45:40
Yeah.
45:40
Because that's gonna be the… I mean, it's inevitable.
45:44
I mean, you can't… You can see the writing on the wall at this point.
45:46
I mean, people can complain about gringos and so forth coming to
45:50
Mexico City and raising rate prices, but it's not going to stop it.
45:55
Yeah.
45:55
Um, and you're gonna see this… I mean, you already are seeing
45:58
this in Portugal, all these other countries that are- Mm-hmm.
46:00
But I think that there's a double-edged sword, because I think
46:02
in some senses it's good, right?
46:04
'Cause there's businesses that are doing great.
46:06
Yeah.
46:06
There's, you know, blah, blah, blah, tax money, so forth and so on.
46:09
But also, it's a very easy cudgel for Mexicans to blame for all the
46:14
problems- Yeah … that they're having.
46:16
Whereas there's also a problem with not enough low-income housing, which we have
46:19
in the United States as well, everywhere.
46:21
Yeah, yeah, everywhere.
46:21
And yeah, so it's complicated.
46:24
Yeah.
46:24
Um, how do you feel about it?
46:26
How do you feel about the whole… 'Cause after 2020, there
46:28
was a huge gringo expansion.
46:31
Yeah.
46:31
There was.
46:32
Uh, I mean, that's when it seems like Americans discovered Mexico City and
46:35
were like, "Oh, we should…" Yeah.
46:37
Yeah.
46:37
Well, I think that you've hit right at the place.
46:41
I mean, I feel Mexican 99% of the time.
46:45
Si, si, si, si.
46:46
And that 1% is, uh, that I, I don't think that it, it's
46:52
necessarily because I'm American.
46:54
Yeah.
46:54
But it's just because I'm more- I don't know.
46:58
Uh, I, the, the only word that's coming to mind, but I don't wanna
47:01
sound pretentious, but the only word that comes out is cosmopolitan.
47:04
Oh, for sure.
47:05
Yeah.
47:05
So, so, so I have a lot of, um… I, I have a lot of self-awareness of who I
47:10
am, like an individual, and who I am as a Mexican, and who I am as an American.
47:16
So, so when, when, when you say, I mean, what, what do you think
47:19
about Americans coming here?
47:21
I mean, you probably haven't noticed it in your neighborhood as much, but still,
47:23
it's a thing- Yeah … that's going on.
47:25
Like, there's anti- Yeah … gringo protests happening.
47:27
Yeah.
47:27
So it's like… Yeah.
47:28
Yeah.
47:28
No, no, no, exactly.
47:29
I mean, that's, that, that, that's the thing.
47:30
I mean- And I've seen the prices go up- Yeah … in one year.
47:32
Exactly.
47:33
Right.
47:33
No, no, no.
47:33
I mean, i- i- it is real.
47:35
No, gentrification is real.
47:36
But the, like, uh, I, I mean, I, I'm r- really weary… That, that's kind of the
47:41
point, because I'm really weary be- 'cause I look… I'm, I- I'm a white American.
47:45
I mean, for people listening.
47:47
You're grin- gr- like gringita, gringis, gring- gring- gringa, gringo-ish.
47:53
Gr- yeah, I mean, actually.
47:54
Gringo-ish.
47:54
That should be a new term for you.
47:55
Yeah, but people see me as gringo point.
47:57
I mean, they- Right, I get it.
47:57
I get it.
47:57
Yeah … and, and, and, I mean, you, you might see something different.
47:59
Not me, though.
48:00
Yeah, no.
48:01
Okay.
48:01
Because I, I'm very self-aware of what it means to be a Mexican and what it
48:04
means to be more or less American.
48:06
Right, I get it.
48:06
But at least I know what I am not a, an American-
48:09
Right … more or less, all that.
48:10
Right.
48:10
But n- this self-consciousness about… No, I mean, because cla-
48:15
the, the, the class distance in, in Mexico is, is, is almost like- I
48:21
mean, just in Si- just in this city in particular, it's crazy … like the,
48:22
like the caste system- Caste system.
48:25
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah … uh, the caste system and, and, and- Yeah … I'm sorry.
48:30
I didn't… I've only read that word.
48:30
No worry, dude.
48:30
Shh.
48:30
But anyway, I, I've had, uh, I've had a lot of problems because since I grew up
48:34
with the servant class- Uh-huh … you know, uh, I talk… I, I, I, I do it on
48:41
purpose because I, I can modulate my, my, my accent and I, I, I mean, I can, I can
48:45
be in polite society and, and all that.
48:47
Right.
48:47
Same.
48:48
But if, if I just let myself go, I'm barrio, you know?
48:51
I'm, I'm really barrio.
48:53
Oh, yeah, yeah.
48:53
And, and, and I, um… So, so I, I, I've had… I, I, I just lost a
48:59
friendship of 40 years because since I, I became, um, unemployed for two
49:06
and a half years- Yeah … I've had a lot of money problems, all that- Yeah.
49:08
No, yeah
49:09
kind of.
49:10
At least in their eyes, I'm poor.
49:12
I understand.
49:12
And, uh, so, so I had this friend, and I sadly have to say had,
49:17
40 years since middle school.
49:19
I've had- And, uh- … many of those, yeah.
49:20
Yeah.
49:21
And, and, and, and… But, like, he was gonna do some computer stuff and all
49:25
that, which I'm more or less an expert.
49:27
Same.
49:28
I mean, I kind of have…
49:29
I am an expert, but, but- No, yeah … I, I don't know.
49:31
He started treating me- Like I was a servant, you know?
49:35
Do you think it was because you were unemployed?
49:37
Yeah.
49:38
That's- I'm absolu- That's fucking bullshit, man No, no, no.
49:39
And, and I, I, I'm absolutely sure.
49:41
I've seen it happen.
49:42
We … No, it's something that has been discussed in, in academic papers, no?
49:47
That, that in Mexico- That your identity is ident- This- Is, is tied in with
49:50
your, your em- Yeah … your, your, your employment And, and especially
49:52
Mexico, because you have to think in, in Mexico, like, like in, uh, uh, in the
49:56
States, the, the middle class … I mean, the States is like, I mean, the, the,
49:59
the, the poor people are not, they're, they're not as much as the middle class.
50:05
No, I mean, the middle class- No.
50:06
No, no.
50:06
There's many poor people … middle, middle class is a big class.
50:08
No, I mean, that's the largest class.
50:09
Yeah, I mean, it was.
50:10
I don't know what it's like now- Yeah … but it's very much, you know, it's shifted
50:12
a lot with Trump, but- Yeah … you know.
50:14
But yeah, I mean, going … I, I think that that's one of the things that
50:17
It's a, I th- I think it's a good thing that like a, uh, advice, no,
50:21
for, for immigrants and expats, no?
50:25
To, um, to kind of take into account this conflict, no, that Mexicans has
50:31
because it could be, uh, you know- What, what's the conflict again?
50:33
Well, that denying this, um, this middle class, um, the discrimination
50:41
against, uh, the servant class.
50:43
The, the, the thing is- Okay.
50:44
Yeah, yeah … yeah.
50:45
I mean, even though, uh, because it's not- The looked down upon thing.
50:47
Yeah … it d- Yeah.
50:48
It, it, it's not racist because if you have money and you're,
50:51
you're indigenous- No, it's just judgy … yeah, I mean, ju- you can,
50:54
you can be … N- but it's, but it's, but it's a real, it's not just judgy.
50:59
No, it's, it's a whole, it's a very profound thing.
51:03
Huh.
51:03
I, I was gonna recommend, uh, to you, and, uh, I, I, I think
51:07
that you, the, everybody that is planning on being an immigrant, no?
51:11
Si.
51:11
If you're planning on- Or an expat if they're- N- well, actually,
51:14
uh, more for m- immigrants, no?
51:16
Okay.
51:16
Because if you, if you kind of want to understand Mexicans
51:18
and try to, to understand what they're doing and all that- I want
51:21
I'm an expat, but I wanna understand- Yeah … Mexicans as well as I can.
51:22
So there, there's a book, uh, from 1985, but anyway, uh, it came out in 19- 1985.
51:27
I, I was in high school and, and I really liked it.
51:29
It is called, it's from Alan Riding, and it's, uh, called, uh, Distant Neighbors:
51:33
A, a, a Portrait of the Mexicans.
51:36
Mm.
51:36
So you should look it up.
51:37
He, he's, um, British and, but he was born in Rio de Janeiro.
51:43
Si.
51:44
And he lived in the States, and then, but he was 15 years here being
51:47
the bureau chief for The New York Times, the core, the- Ah, si, si, si.
51:51
Yeah … so yeah.
51:52
He, he wrote it exactly to explain to Americans who were the Mexicans.
51:58
If you are an American or a British person or whoever, and you're
52:01
thinking about moving here, do not.
52:03
It's terrifying.
52:04
It is dangerous.
52:05
Uh, my guest right now has a gun pointed at me.
52:08
So do not move here because it is very dangerous, and it's horrible,
52:12
and tacos cost $18 apiece.
52:15
Okay.
52:15
Okay.
52:16
Now to your scheduled program.
52:17
Yeah.
52:19
Yeah.
52:19
No, I mean p- people in general… Yeah, I mean, this, this whole,
52:22
I mean, in, in, in English they say, uh, mi casa es su casa, no?
52:26
They, they say the same.
52:27
Sí.
52:27
Sí.
52:27
But, but, but it's actually, I mean, one thing that, uh, that… In, in Mexico,
52:31
uh, at least in Mexico City, they're, they don't, they don't say, uh, we
52:34
don't say that because I do it also.
52:37
Hmm.
52:37
They say, uh, like I would say, "Y ahí tienen su casa,"
52:40
there's where your house is.
52:42
Sí.
52:42
That, but, but it's really funny because su casa… No, no, no.
52:45
I will not even say that it's my house.
52:48
No, no, no.
52:49
We, we have to give everything to you.
52:52
It's your house.
52:53
Hmm.
52:53
No?
52:54
I mean, not, not, it's not our house, it's my house and it's…
52:57
But it's, no, it's your house.
52:59
It's the whole thing.
53:00
Hmm.
53:00
So, so yeah, no, this thing that they, they, if, if you're visiting, I mean,
53:05
sometimes I, I felt really bad because, like, you go to these towns and they,
53:11
they don't have much and whatever, and they'll serve you most of the food.
53:16
Yeah.
53:16
No, and, and, and there's no way to tell them no.
53:20
Right.
53:20
And it actually would be really rude.
53:22
Rude.
53:23
Yeah, man.
53:23
No, no, no.
53:23
You have to take it.
53:25
The, the, the- No, you have to accept it.
53:26
No, because it's- … the kindness level is really off the charts.
53:28
Yeah.
53:28
No, no, no.
53:29
The, the, it's really, yeah, it's really amazing, amazing, amazing.
53:32
Yeah.
53:32
I just hope that, you know, we, you know, there's a lot of talk about
53:35
how, you know, Mexico City's kind of like 40 years, 30 years behind
53:38
the United States in a lot of ways.
53:39
Yeah.
53:40
I just hope that Mexico City doesn't catch up to the United States in that way.
53:43
Yeah.
53:44
I, I do.
53:44
In the, in the, in the personal connection, uh, you know, uh, te quiero
53:49
so- Yeah … so on and so on kind of way.
53:51
Yeah.
53:52
The last question that I usually ask people, which is now out of place,
53:55
and I feel like maybe I should change it because I'm just gonna
53:56
be interviewing expats from now on.
53:58
What do you think happens when- When … we die?
54:03
Well, I w- I, I, I would like to quote a great philosopher called Keanu Reeves.
54:08
Absolutely.
54:09
The actor.
54:10
Bring it.
54:11
That, that he said, "Well, I think that when we die, the people that love us
54:15
are v- are gonna be very sad." And, uh, no, that, I mean, that was nice.
54:19
But mostly I, I, I, I'm of the
54:22
I, I think that whatever our, our consciousness is just blacks out.
54:29
Okay.
54:29
But, uh, but I don't think we're just our consciousness.
54:32
I mean, that we are also all the stories we've lived all over the place.
54:37
No?
54:38
Okay.
54:38
I mean, we are whatever and … Because our, our conscious is just kind of
54:43
this, um, thing that consolidates or kind of puts, pulls together all our
54:49
stories, histories, ideas, and all that.
54:53
And so whatever we've done in the world just kind of keeps going.
54:58
It'll be diluted and maybe remembered or not, but, uh, eventually.
55:03
I mean, eventually we'll just kind of dilute and just become entropy.
55:06
Do you think that we're still existing in some, uh, consciousness
55:13
manner once we, quote-unquote- Die … are, are no longer alive?
55:19
No, not, not, not in any … No, no.
55:24
I- Traditionally understood way, I mean.
55:25
Yeah.
55:25
No, exactly.
55:26
I mean, the, the thing is for other people we might still be alive in the
55:30
sense that, I mean, we're, our memories and our ideas, our things, whatever
55:34
we did- Mm-hmm … is still there.
55:36
Yeah.
55:36
For other people we're still alive.
55:38
But for us, I mean our, our own subjective- Mm-hmm
55:40
experience, there, I don't think there's any subjective
55:42
experience- You think this is it?
55:43
… after.
55:44
Yeah.
55:44
This is it.
55:45
Yeah, this is it.
55:45
And I've, I'm cool with it.
55:47
I mean, I don't have any problem with it.
55:48
I don't know how I feel about that.
55:50
Yeah.
55:51
Well.
55:51
Yeah.
55:52
Thank you so much for coming on the podcast.
55:54
Great.
55:54
No, thank you.
55:55
Thank you very much.
55:57
And there you have it thank you once again, Kayo for coming on the podcast and
56:06
sharing your story with us if you have any questions or comments or concerns
56:12
for the podcast or just for me you can send them to onefjefpod@gmail.com
56:19
that's O-N-E-F-J-E-F-P-O-D at gmail.com
56:25
If you'd like to use your voice to express questions, comments, concerns,
56:30
anger, a poem, a song, whatever, you can call the podcast and leave a
56:36
voicemail message at 1-669-241-5882.
56:51
I was kind of going for, like, a Les Misérables thing there.
56:54
I think I got, I got it a little bit.
56:57
That's 1-669-241-5882.
57:01
Call that number.
57:03
Talk into the phone.
57:04
I'll play it on the air, probably, 80% chance.
57:09
Also, you can follow the podcast on all the social media channels: Instagram,
57:13
@onefjefpod; TikTok, @onefjefpodcast; Substack, onefjef; Facebook, I forget.
57:27
Sorry, Facebook, I forget.
57:29
I'm sorry.
57:30
You can search for, you can search for it or something.
57:35
You'll find it.
57:36
I've been neglecting the Facebook page, um, pretty badly, so… And it's
57:42
reflected in my attitude towards it.
57:44
Maybe I shouldn't neglect it because I think people still look at it.
57:47
But, uh, yeah, if you're in the Facebook group and you've been
57:51
waiting for updates, I'm so sorry.
57:53
I am.
57:53
I'm really sorry.
57:55
It-- There's so many social media things, and there's so little time.
57:58
And I try to spread it around, but I don't know.
58:03
It's hard to know where to spread your seed.
58:08
Oh, okay.
58:09
We gotta wrap this one up.
58:11
Uh, what else to say?
58:12
Oh, Patreon.
58:13
Patreon, Patreon.
58:15
Patrioff?
58:16
No, Patreon.
58:18
patreon.com/onefjef.
58:21
This is a completely independent podcast at the moment.
58:26
As such, I make it as a labor of love for you, the listener, and for me.
58:32
I get joy out of it as well, but, you know, it's free content, and
58:36
it's hopefully free entertainment.
58:38
And how often do you find that in this world?
58:39
Well, I mean, honestly, you can find it all over the place, but usually
58:44
there's advertisements in there, and there aren't any in here except
58:47
for this one for the Patreon page.
58:50
So please do go to patreon.com/onefjef and sign up for as little as $5 a month.
58:57
You can help support the podcast.
58:58
You can feel good about yourself.
59:00
You can get access to a bunch of extra content and more to come.
59:04
You can also sign up for $25 a month, you know, $100 a month.
59:09
Whatever you want, I will take it, and I will appreciate it,
59:13
and I will put it to good use.
59:15
patreon.com/onefjef.
59:17
And thank you so much to my continuing Patreon subscribers.
59:22
You make me so very happy.
59:24
If I could give you all a hug, then I would, but I live in Mexico City,
59:30
and I don't think any of my Patreon subscribers presently live in Mexico City.
59:35
But if you are a Patreon subscriber and you come to Mexico
59:37
City, I shall give you a hug.
59:41
How about that?
59:42
That's a reason to sign up right now.
59:44
patreon.com/onefjef, O-N-E-F-J-E-F.
59:50
Okay.
59:52
And I will end this episode, as I do many of my episodes, with a quote from
59:58
Rumi, the Sufi poet who lived in his parents' basement many, many years ago.
1:00:07
"Run from what's comfortable.
1:00:09
Forget safety.
1:00:11
Live where you fear to live.
1:00:13
Destroy your reputation.
1:00:15
Be notorious.
1:00:16
I have tried prudent planning long enough.
1:00:19
From now on, I'll be mad."
1:00:23
And I'll see you next week.
1:00:25
Very good, Jeffrey