Latest / The Modern Hotelier / #339: Cabañas Launch Astound, Dormakaba Acquires Alliants, Booking on Social Media | Christopher Ahlgrim
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- The Modern Hotelier #339: Cabañas Launch Astound, Dormakaba Acquires Alliants, Booking on Social Media | Christopher Ahlgrim === Steve Carran: Welcome to another episode of The Modern Hotelier Hospitality Hot Topics, where we go over what happened this past September. Don't forget to follow, like, subscribe, and let us know in the comments what you think about today's episode. Today, we are joined by a former guest and good friend, Chris Ahlgrim from Preferred Travel Group. Chris, how we doing today? Christopher Ahlgrim: Good, thank you. Very nice to see you both. I was lucky to see you last week in Miami as well. So I'm glad work has resumed here with the fall now, so Steve Carran: Absolutely, and we'll be seeing you at Destination AI in DC as well. So the first topic that, had some big new-- We had some big news of acquisitions and launches in the industry. The first one is Burt and Alex Cabañas launched Astound Ventures. It's a $30 million investment fund. It's more focused on practical wins over big unicorn bets. Chris, I'm gonna pass it over to you first. What do you think about this? Christopher Ahlgrim: Yeah, my first reaction was pure jealousy of Alex. I think anybody who's spent that much time in the industry between him and his family and his father, and then the opportunity to really set up a fund and take the time to think about what could make real improvements for the hotels, given the background that he and his team, and obviously he's still involved with, Pyramid, Benchmark, and Convene. So I'm just, I just cannot wait to see what he comes out with and kind of what he's investing in, and total focus is around margin, right? So helping the owners really create the best margin possible for the hotels, which as we know, is being squeezed and squeezed and squeezed for various reasons in different cities. But, yeah, I'm really just excited to see what he comes out as because some of it is as practical as waste management, and then some of it is technology-based and how can you make things cleaner and more streamlined for the guests. So I'm just, again, I think jealousy, just the ability to have time and sit and think and say what will really improve the hotels, is gonna be exciting to watch what they do with that. Steve Carran: I agree. I think it's really cool that the focus is on the bottom line. They're working with like FoxFold and Leviar to name a few, and you know, s- working with some really cool companies. David, what do you think? David Millili: Yeah, well, we need it. I mean, I think that, you know, what I find is that, you know, a lot of these companies that do have good ideas are underfunded, can't get the funding, and that just kinda hurts us as an industry as a whole. So the idea of, you know, capital getting, you know, infused into technology in our space, I just think that's a great thing, and I think it's a win-win for everyone. And, you know, Chris, you hit on some great points there. And, you know, whatever they can do to help the hotels through the tech side, I think is just a win-win. Steve Carran: Yeah, absolutely. David Millili: So on that, I found this interesting 'cause w- we're talking about capital coming into the space, and now Dormakaba buys Alliants, and it feels like there hasn't been a lot of acquisitions, maybe outside like Mews was, you know, kinda gobbling up a bunch of smaller companies. So for me, I think this is interesting. It's an interesting time of year. A lot of acquisitions happen midyear around HITEC or end of year. So here we are in September. So Steve, what was your takeaway by this acquisition? Steve Carran: Yeah. First of all, congrats to the Dormakaba and Alliants team. I was so excited about this. I was actually messaging with Alberto, and he's like, "We got big news. I won't see you in Miami." And then this broke. I couldn't be more excited for that team. But I thought it was really interesting. Dormakaba primarily focuses on locks, but the more I thought about kind of why this makes so much sense is those locks are becoming more and more part of the guest experience, and it really extends Dormakaba's reach from just the locks, but also into digital keys, messaging, check-in, payments, you know, and even a concierge service as well. So I thought when I kinda sat down and thought about this, it makes perfect sense for these two companies to work together, and I couldn't be more excited about it. But what about you, Christopher? Christopher Ahlgrim: I will admit this is not my side of the business, but I do inspect a lot of hotels and obviously I travel a lot. And so it really made me think about practicality when I saw it because I don't know about you all, but the introduction of digital keys being based off your phone maybe being incorporated into a hotel app that you download one time is sort of an interesting leap, I think, for the guest in sort of educating the guest every time they walk through the door. So this to me is very interesting for the practical standpoint is you have a true expert in the lock industry or the physical aspect of it, and then marrying it with the technology and bringing both those together because, you know, paying with our credit cards with Apple Pay has become ubiquitous at this point. It really, it should be for hotel locks at the same time, but in my experience, at least in the independent hotel industry, is you've got to download a single app for a single hotel that might have the key integrated. You know, I've-- we, we're both at trade shows all the time. My phone's often very close to dead at the end of the day, so there's sort of anxiety about your key not working as you're going up to the room. So if as the hotel industry moves to replacing, you know, the card keys, it's gotta work, right? It just has to work every time, like Apple Pay does is the example. Steve Carran: Yeah, Chris, from your perspective, kind of on the hotel side, do you think this is gonna create kind of a smoother guest journey, journey and make the operations side a little bit more simple since you're kind of adding the value of hotel software and the digital, digital experience, guest experience into kind of the existing platform already? Christopher Ahlgrim: Yeah, I think so. And honestly, if you think about what Astound does, or what Astound is trying to do, and Alex and his father are trying to do, is they have invested in a company that really pinpoints the location of the guest, from my understanding of it, so you know exactly when you walk through the door. A lot of hotels are going to try to move to sort of a welcome ambassador model or, make the front desk smaller and sort of less apparent and remove that barrier between the guests, but it really has to work. So as a traveler, if you're coming through and you really don't need to talk to the front desk, you've got your key right there, you can walk right up to your room, that's great. But some people still will need the explanation of how the app works, of where the information is, quite frankly, how the key works, if you have to kinda do anything special with the Bluetooth aspect on your phone, or whether there's a pin pad at the door, or whether you can, quite frankly, go down to the front desk and get a card because your phone is dead or at least get that six-digit pin to enter in there if that evolves to there. So yeah, I think it's interesting. And as always, we look at, at least at Preferred, we look at safety in a very big way, and I know everyone does. So incorporating not just the digital aspect, but once you're inside, making the guests feel safe. I feel like with some of these new digital locks, people are forgetting to put the latch up top, even though it's... You know, you just kinda wanna hear that click or you want to hear that deadbolt go through. In a lot of cases it just makes you feel safer once you're in the room. Steve Carran: I agree with you 100%. So one thing that we've talked about recently on another Hot Topics episode is the trend of travelers booking through social media. Now a new report came out that 58% of folks are a little nervous to book through TikTok, Instagram, and almost don't really trust those platforms. I also was reading another article that, it wasn't the hotel that put this out, but somebody was promoting the hotel using AI, and it wasn't the rooms. and it wasn't the hotel, it was AI just completely came up with a fake room and a fake kind of aspect of the hotel. So I guess I can see that's definitely one aspect why people would be nervous for booking through social media. But Christopher, what about you? Are you booking through social media anytime soon? Christopher Ahlgrim: I am not, and really for the same reasons as I think even purchasing things through social media. There's a definitely a price point, and any travel's gonna fall above that price threshold for an easy, quick purchase on social media. And I think the big thing is, like you said, it's-- you can trust it, but you gotta verify it. And, you know, we're seeing the same thing in AI, in the LLMs and the chatbots, there as well, or ChatGPT. You know, we're working on an app, preferred to sit within the ChatGPT model, but you've still got that barrier both at social media and AI where guests are using it for research and they're using it to really get inspired. However, you wanna go to the website, you wanna check Google Maps. You know, one example I always talk about is really the advent of the glamping industry and that whole boom post-COVID. It would look incredible on social media, and then you'd go look at it on Google Maps and realize it's next to a shopping center or, you know. So you can make it look really great, but if it's on the side of a highway and it's not really an immersive experience, it's not gonna be wonderful. So, from a personal perspective, it is definitely you wanna verify whatever they are selling, either through social media or AI. Yeah. Steve Carran: Yeah, I agree with you on that one. David, what about you? David Millili: Yeah, I think you both hit on it. I mean, I think there's a big difference between buying something that's gonna make you thin or grow your hair versus a complete stay and trip on social media, and you guys touched on it. I mean, there's so much out there with AI now and we'll talk about this a little later, but there's, you know, the influencers and is it real? Meaning that, you know, you're gonna spend all this money to go on a trip, and today with airfare cost and hotel rates have not gone down. So these are expensive purchases, so I think it's a, like I said, it's a big difference between buying kind of a gimmick or something that you see somebody messing around with on TikTok versus booking your stay. I believe the numbers. I believe it probably is even higher than the 58%, but we'll see. Steve Carran: Yeah. I just one more thing to add. I was kind of bummed to hear this because, like, hotels, we've talked to some hotels that, like, build out spaces for Instagrammable moments, and, you know, they do rely on Instagram a lot, and now they're almost, I don't know, bringing doubt into that, "Oh, is this real?" When they've worked really hard to create those special places as well. So David Millili: Yeah. And I think the ones who do that and take the time, I think they're the ones that are okay. I think it's the ones that really aren't into the social media aspect of it and allowing others to really control their own destiny, and I think that's where the doubt creeps in and the AI creeps in. Like you discussed, somebody's out there promoting your hotel with a fake room and things of that nature. And like Chris, like you said, it's, you know, you think it's a great destination and it's right next to the shopping center. So we'll see. It's an area hotels still have to focus on, but they just have to be smarter, and AI is only gonna make it more challenging, especially on the independent side. So speaking of independent, we were just at the Independent Hotel Show in Miami, and it was great. It was year four, great energy. We got to interview a ton of people. Very, very positive feedback. So we had our panel, so maybe Steve, I guess you could use ours, but what was kinda some of the favorite things or favorite talk or favorite experience that you took away from Miami? Steve Carran: Yeah. I really enjoyed the panel with Sean, Kaylee, and you, David. It was pretty cool because it wasn't a traditional panel. It was, you know, we got asked questions from attendees, and we just got to answer them. So that was kinda cool. But I think my favorite part about the Independent Hotel Show is just the all the different types of companies there, and it's focused on independents. So it's really kind of our people, David, that are at that show. So, it was fun to hang out with Chris a little bit, did a little karaoke as well. But, no, I just enjoyed seeing-- And, you know, we go to a lot of shows that's focused so much on technology. I enjoy this show because it's not just technology. Not that I have anything against technology, but this is kinda just something new that we-- Well, something different that we do where it's not all focused on technology. Bedding, you know, uniforms, scents, and things like that. So I just really enjoy the crowd that goes to this show. Christopher, what about you? Christopher Ahlgrim: Yeah, I had a couple, but I would say I agree. The Independent Hotel Show has really done a good job of curating, I think, a different type of panel than most shows. It's really-- You-- I believe you come away with practical advice. You know, so just talking about social media, one of the ones was on, I think, content and AI, but Ben from Onera, Ben Wolfe, I believe from Onera, he talked about how, yes, you're not seeing bookings through social media. You're seeing them through Google or wherever they're, wherever they're finding you. However, if you ask the guests when they're showing up or if you ask them through a very simple survey, 60 to 70% of his guests are finding him through social media. I think that was the number. So it may not translate as far as trackability, but, you know, it's a practical way, and I think it gave a lot of hoteliers a very simple "yes, no" or "where did you find us" type of a survey to understand where they're coming from. So I thought that was great. And then the other one was really around wellness and wellbeing. There was a great panel with the new president of the Ranch, Heidi from Wild Rice, and then one of our hotel members, The Houstonian in Houston. And I really thought that was just a good, honest discussion about sort of, greenwashing is the term we use in sustainability, so whatever the equivalent term is in wellness. You know, people just putting wellness on their website if they have one treatment room or they've maybe got some yoga mats in their room versus true purpose-built wellbeing. You know, Houstonian, I believe, has a 20,000-foot spa. We work with the Carillon in Miami, which has a 70,000-foot medicinal forward spa. And then, you know, so you look at real wellness and true intention around wellness versus sort of, "Yes, we have a room," you know, a treatment room that you can have somebody come in on call. So I really appreciated that. And then again, to the practical aspect of it, how does a hotel make small tweaks that aren't these-- You know, you don't have to build a 20,000 square foot facility to get this done. How can a hotel do that with the resources that they have? Steve Carran: Absolutely. David, I'm gonna turn it back on you. What was your favorite part? David Millili: Yeah, I think you, I mean, you hit on it. I mean, you both did, but, you know, I mean, I got to interview a furniture company, a skincare treatment company. You know, so these are things, you're not finding that at HITEC. So I think, you know, you both hit on it. This truly is kind of the-- has now I think cemented itself as kind of the, when it comes to a pure trade show, the trade show for independent hotels. Like I said, year four, and there's always growing pains, but this year, I didn't meet one person that had anything negative to say. It was, it was the opposite. Everybody was really kinda jazzed and pumped and, you know, like I said, anytime we can get Steve to do some karaoke, that always makes the event much better, so. Steve Carran: Yeah, and it's a growing show too. I think, they've been growing like 33% year over year. So, I mean, it's just gonna get bigger, but it's kind of fun to see it at the be- more towards the beginning, I'll say, not at the beginning. But, it's a, you know, it, it's always a fun group of people and great folks attend. So, Christopher Ahlgrim: Yeah. A lot of repeat vendors too, so they, clearly they're seeing value as well. Steve Carran: Absolutely. So Christopher, what is new at Preferred? Christopher Ahlgrim: Appreciate the question. You know, from the Preferred Hotels and Resorts level, we really continue to grow very steadily. And one of the things actually we've done is, is I guess I would point to two things right now. So one is with the advent of AI and visibility for our hotels within guests using research and guests, you know, using AI for researching their trips, visibility is a huge thing. And so we've been working, again, kinda back to the theme of what, what can a hotel do practically to make their website better, to make their visibility increase on these LLMs? And so we've been looking very hard at what's called, what's called rate parity. So making sure that the rates that the hotels are putting out on their website match or are better than what they're putting out on the OTAs and other various channels. Reason being is that because the LLMs are lazy, for lack of a better word, and so what they will do is if the rate is, you know, $1 to $2 cheaper on Expedia, that's where they're gonna default. And, you know, our hotels love and partner with Expedia in a lot of ways, but as we know, they're the most expensive channel as well. So if we can help our hotels make sure that they're diverting those research bookings to their website, or our website, which is a lower cost channel than Expedia booking, then that's really how we're working to assist our hotels in that area. So as mentioned, we've got an in-app widget with ChatGPT coming out, so we've been working with them on that. But it's really focusing on what we call rate parity and making sure that our hotels are getting the best visibility possible, so when they're linking out, it's going to their website versus a competitor website, more expensive website. I was gonna say the second thing was, is our preferred wellbeing program, but I'll, I'll so I'll talk about that in a minute, but I feel like that's a good place to stop as far as hotel visibility and maybe what your guests are talking about and what, what you're all hearing in that area. 'Cause AI is from the operations aspect, it's from the marketing aspect. You can really tackle it from any angle. So maybe just curious about your opinions there and what you've been hearing. Steve Carran: Yeah, I think, we kinda talked about it on our panel a little bit, how, you need to make sure that, like you said, AI is kinda lazy when it's searching for hotels. So you need to make sure that the information about what makes your hotel unique is easily visible. I was talking to one hotelier, they put it on their About Me page, and they will up- they update it on kinda new things that are happening or, you know, unique amenities that they have, because that's one page that the LLMs are gonna search for sure. But I think making sure that you are updating your website and making it easily readable for LLMs to make sure that they can find those unique features that especially independents really help them stand out. Christopher Ahlgrim: Yeah. We've got specific advice and examples on the schema, that the website uses for that exact purpose, 'cause so many of these websites went to fully visual, you know, great pictures and great inspiration, and now the LLMs can't read anything. They can't read PDFs, so they need it in a very simple format on the back end of the website to make sure that the hotel's popping up in the correct way. Steve Carran: Absolutely. I got a follow-up question. You mentioned kind of, you know, the booking process and you're making sure that people are booking direct. One issue that we keep hearing about is these, like, third-party OTAs that are undercutting costs. Have you guys ran into that much or has that been an issue? If so, how are you dealing with it? Christopher Ahlgrim: Yes, that's probably the biggest thing on our mind right now, especially with the advent of AI and what I was talking about. So the discount stacking, and this is not my area of expertise, so forgive me if I'm using the wrong language, but the discount stacking that the OTAs use and with their subsidiaries, it kinda goes out into forever. I mean, The hotels can find their rate on a website that they have never heard of, they didn't know they were promoting it to, but it may be owned by Booking, it may be owned by Expedia, and they're sort of, they're digging into their own margins to bring the rate down and down and down. And so the way that we work with our hotels is, A, just getting a handle on your distribution, and most importantly, knowing what is in your contract with the OTAs. Do they have the right to do that or do they not have the right to do that? If they're introducing their own member rates, how are they doing that? And is it an auto opt-in or do you have to opt in from a hotel perspective? So the way that we combat that on our side and work with our hotels is through our iPrefer program. So we have an iPrefer loyalty program, largest base points program for independent hotels in the world, roughly seven million members. But what that allows our hotels to do is offer a member rate exclusive to their members. So what that allows is because you're offering that rate to a closed group of closed membership group, you can go outside of the rate parity clauses in most cases with the OTAs and always offer the lowest possible rate on your own website. So back to the original point of that discussion, you know, the hotel will always be able to offer three, five, some even go 10% lower on their own website versus what they're offering anywhere else in the landscape. Steve Carran: Awesome. David Millili: That does it for another episode of The Modern Hotelier Hospitality Hot Topics. Chris, this is where you get to let people know how they can find out more about Preferred, how they can get in touch with you. Christopher Ahlgrim: Absolutely. Thank you. So I would encourage everyone go to preferredtravelgroup.com that where you can learn more about both preferredhotels.com and Beyond Green, our sustainability brand, as well as Historic Hotels of America and Historic Hotels Worldwide, which we also work with and support as well. So thank you so much. We appreciate it today. David Millili: Well, that does it for another episode of The Modern Hotelier, the most engaged podcast in hospitality. This has been a Hospitality Hot Topics. Whether you're watching or listening, we appreciate you and hope to be with you again soon. Thanks for joining us, Chris. Christopher Ahlgrim: Thank you, David. Thank you, Steve. Steve Carran: Thank you.