Latest / Unstuck Pod / AI Won't Build Your Business (Daks and Jamie Schneiderman)
Transcript
- Jamie Schneiderman: Hi everyone and welcome to the Unstuck Pod. very excited to have ⁓ Dax here today from Hexagon. And I jumped already to the to the company. and so welcome, welcome, Dax. Daks: Thank you, Jamie. Thank you for having me today. Jamie Schneiderman: so what wanted to do ⁓ was know think for the sake of the group for the audience it'd be great for you to ⁓ give them background about you, ⁓ a bit the jour your journey, and then and then let tell them about the company. Daks: Yeah, definitely. as Jimmy said, I'm Dax. I found IT solutions. we I found this sixteen years ago. I started the company I saw the gap ⁓ where technology and cost was very different. I tried to w in hexagon what we are to is ⁓ cut that gap between the cost and the ⁓ development itself. a lot of people get ⁓ scared when they think of custom development. So we we try to make it affordable for what they want. so that's how we started and we used to build a lot of custom CRM and ERP solutions for customers. after a certain amount of years that that was our primary bread and butter. Then we found that we started working with construction companies and that became our ⁓ niche industry to go to for our solutions and then we also got into healthcare and we replicated that model in healthcare and then we we did the same with ⁓ financial and education so we work in the four different sectors right now. we as I said we we are from Utah, we have been here for sixteen plus years now, and ⁓ we work with construction companies to build out CRM and ERP solutions. same for healthcare ⁓ and industry. part of our journey we figured out that a lot of the customers that use CRM solutions from different places, they have a lot of things lined up on their menu items, but they're not using it. So we went in and built our own CRM called Archer CRM. that ⁓ what we take it ⁓ ⁓ present it to our customers and customize it for their needs now. Jamie Schneiderman: And so is that CRM and the system that you built, specific to their industry, me, their needs, like 'cause you also talk about four different industries. So so how does that work? Daks: Yeah. ⁓ yeah. So we we built so that's a good great question because we when we built it, because it was built like a year ago. ⁓ when we built it, we primarily geared it towards ⁓ construction companies. Then we did a pilot ⁓ and the that did the pilot came back to us and said, Hey look This is great, but this is completely construction. This has nothing to do with general industry. So we we hobbled around and then we we built the ⁓ module as a general industry. And if they are construction, it is a then we move them to a construction CRM. Jamie Schneiderman: So okay. So and I'm and I'm curious. So like I've got places that I wanted to go because I'm I'm when you start to talk about that from a development point of view, when you have multiple customers and you talk about it from a development point of view, I imagine that there are challenges. So every customer wants their own things, as much customization as possible, which is good and bad. Daks: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Jamie Schneiderman: But also then you on top of that you're layering in in different industries. So how how much does that complicate overall product and product development work? Daks: ⁓ if you look from the product development side, it's a nightmare. dev my dev team hates anytime we bring in someone who is completely out of out of what we already have in the box. ⁓ and we also are trying to be customer strength-centric and very fluid, ⁓ which is which is which we are trying to contain right now. but Jamie Schneiderman: Yeah. Daks: Where with the base layer that we have, we build the industry on top of it. ⁓ when we build it, we try to see if we can stick with those four silos that we have, the four industries. if they fit into those four industries, great. If if they don't, then then it becomes like a cost. Cost is involved on the development, and then we all the the other huge cost that we incur is the silver cost because the more clients we are inheriting or getting escalates into silver cost. So we are so that's that's where we are trying we always try to figure out, okay, if you are from ⁓ particular industry or you go ⁓ these are all the modules that we have for this industry. ⁓ there anything else you would want more than this? And and that's something that we are trying to figure out like how do we bring that all into a SaaS model into the instead of trying to we can't we we can't go into every industry and try to customize it for that industry. there needs to be something ⁓ and then there might be something like, hey, this is how much we can customize. So we have we have been experimenting that. we have been having ⁓ a little bit of success in that area. so it it's it's a it's a it's a challenge for ⁓ us ⁓ ⁓ development ⁓ and ⁓ wise it's it's it's something that we need to look at. Jamie Schneiderman: Yeah. I had another question like sort of connected to it because I ⁓ you you know, you start off, you said we're custom development, obviously you leaned into some very specific areas. When you talk about CRM and ERP and you talk about construction, that's pretty focused. and so ⁓ and then but then build on top of that a layer of customization and then you also add in Daks: Mm-hmm. Jamie Schneiderman: you know, healthcare and financial services and and so so d how do you find that that impacts you from how do you get customers like so ⁓ customer acquisition do you is it is it stuff that is the ⁓ the everyone's just looking for the same things and you're talking about what you do or is do you find it challenging because you're now talking to different audiences? Daks: Yeah, that that is something where like myself and the marketing team butt heads pretty much every day is we want to be consistent in bringing the leads, but we are all we also want ⁓ it the cost to do business, we want to keep it to ⁓ a where we can handle this. Jamie Schneiderman: Yeah. Daks: So that's one of the reasons where we went in and said, okay, we are going to only concentrate on these four industries because that's where all of our customers come from. ⁓ working with construction and healthcare industry and financial industry so long, ⁓ like have a my developers actually know what a customer would want instead of branching out to 10 different ⁓ things. Jamie Schneiderman: Right. Daks: On the c customer acquisition side, ⁓ we tried out to have ⁓ sales like two people for each of those industry to do the sales. It didn't work out. so we are right now ⁓ in the last three months, we are just doing general industry targeting and ⁓ like a message of siloed to each industry. And that has worked out really well. with because when we go in and talk to them, we say, hey, these are all the things that are common, we have it. If it is industry specific, these are the only industries we work with. We have we have had a lot of we probably have about 180 or 190 prospects who have come to us from insurance industry And they've to they constantly have asked us, hey, your your CRM is easy to use, it it has a great UI, but can you build it for build this industry into it where we can track our commissions and everything? and looking into it because there are there are like 180 people, plus have users in their company. They they are like about 10 to 15 users each. So we we are considering if we should how do we our architecture to frame it into the insurance industry is something that we are looking at. previously we used to jump into building it because you know yeah, you you ask and we'll build it. Kind of that's how that's that that used to be our motto, like you ideate and we will build it. But now we are like, now we need to think more on the ROI of ⁓ we are building it. ⁓ and with AI in the picture, that throws a huge wrench in the development because there are who say, Hey, why don't I just go automate my own spreadsheet instead of you you paying you money monthly. Jamie Schneiderman: Mm-hmm. Daks: So we we we we are thinking in all those areas and seeing what would be the best way to approach this. Jamie Schneiderman: Well, and so so let's talk about that ⁓ specifically, right? 'Cause AI obviously is like a key topic. You brought it up. you know, yeah, I think I it's funny 'cause I've heard from a number of folks in different industries, like, you know, you'll they'll have clients that will say to them, ⁓ I can just use AI for that. And, you know, everybody starts there and then of course they get into it and it it's never as simple as that. Daks: Yeah. Jamie Schneiderman: but ⁓ but I would love to hear from your perspective who ⁓ when you're operating in development you it everything sounds like it'll all just be done by AI, ⁓ what what the What what's working, what's not working? So what happens when those conversations start to to come up? Daks: thing is if somebody says, I can use my AI to build this, I tell them good luck, follow the f follow the protocols because AI might you because people people are wipe coding it. They're not really understanding the layers that they need to build into a software. I can give you an example. ⁓ two and a half weeks ago, we we were approached by a company. That built their entire system using wipe coding using a different company. They used a consultant who did the wipe coding. They said the system is constantly failing. can you take a look at it? So when we looked at it, it was very interesting that nothing been standardized or stabilized. We even GitHub keys everywhere in the ⁓ code structure. and there were open ⁓ logins in a lot of places. So we we were like, do you did you guys even audit this before you because it is already in production? ⁓ yeah. ⁓ ⁓ I'm like, did you guys even ⁓ have a QA test this or even your AI agent go and do a QA? They they they just gave us all kinds of answers that didn't really Jamie Schneiderman: ⁓ boy. Live. They w press live right away. Let's go. Daks: makes sense. And I the approach they took, the the reason they took this approach is that they wanted to cut cost on development. They didn't want to spend anything that would make the system to ⁓ be it needs to be. So I talked to the founder and I said, look, the the you need to look at this in a different way. Do you want your business to be successful? ⁓ you release this and if any breach happens, are you ready to pay for all that? And other one is d you're you you you you're a great visionary, what you want to achieve, but your system is not going to achieve what you w the the the level that you want to achieve. So that's that's where it comes to ⁓ boils down to is like what is my end goal? Is it end goal just to develop something and release it in the market or my end goal is to make money out of what I'm building. AI is a great tool. It it can co work with somebody to build it out, but you cannot build your entire application, just wipe code the whole thing and think that you can release a SaaS platform. Jamie Schneiderman: Yeah. No, I I I ⁓ I I find it interesting. I mean, listen, it's a it's an interesting challenge or balance because I think leaning into AI and some of the capabilities are great, but you have to pick and choose where ⁓ And then it sounds like to your your point, where are the guardrails? Right? You have to ⁓ if you do it, you have to make sure there's guardrails, especially if you're dealing with Daks: Mm-hmm. Jamie Schneiderman: any kind of data, anything that is requires any form of security, even the even the most basic stuff that requires security has to has to be thought through very carefully. Got it. So so let's talk through. So what I'm curious, so so you've got this business. You're you talked about having all these prospects sort of showing up Like, you know, maybe the sales approach that you had wasn't exactly optimal, but now you found something that is working for you. where what ⁓ you were to look at your business right now and say, this is great, and these are sort of my challenge areas and ⁓ you know, this is how I'm spending my time leaning into more of this. I wish that I had more of this and I I wish I had these things resolved. How how does that look right now for you, Dax? Daks: Mm-hmm. ⁓ the the problem that we are trying to resol now is customer accusation. ⁓ the that are trying to ⁓ figure out ⁓ is who we want to bring in as customers, right? that you Jamie Schneiderman: Mm-hmm. Daks: means you can go into the market trying to bring every single person ⁓ who is interested in your product, but you also have to think about lifetime value of the product, lifetime value of the client. you ⁓ I in in I I tell my sales team like when a client jumps into your system, you're literally marrying into marrying with the customer at that point. because you they decided to use your application and all of a sudden they say this is not great, that is not great, I want this to be rebuilt, that to be rebuilt. You need to think about it whether this is going to work out or not. like a week ago we we had a call with a discovery call with a customer. During the process, we we felt like the customer really does not understand. How this how the system is going to help them. We try to explain it for like we spent like an hour call went to one and a half hours. We tried to explain it and like we felt like she's never going to use the system ⁓ way the system is built. And are going to ⁓ ask for more and more custom building into this. and they don't want to spend money. So at that time you feel like do you want to take them as a customer is is your question. Because there's one part where you're trying to find a customer. There's one part where you're qualifying a customer to see whether you want to be their developer or a solution provider or they can be your customer. So that's where a lot of yeah I I understand cost and money and all that I understand. But in the last years that we have done development, we've we have felt like, hey, do we take a customer ⁓ are we going to be in a spot where we can take care of them? Or are they going to be like constantly not happy about it? like I have customers who who started working with us in two thousand seven. They are still our customers. ⁓ our customers ⁓ come back to us on a constant basis asking us to build things or upgrade things or maintain things for them or fix things for them. But if you if you are a if if you're looking at a customer who who actually will will be a compliment to you instead of like a trouble, then that's something that's that's what we are trying to figure out how to navigate that. Jamie Schneiderman: Yeah. Yeah, okay. No, that's that's ⁓ that's in it's interesting and I think it's smart because a lot of companies jump in and just want to grab whatever business it they can grab, which of makes sense, but at the same time, like you said, lifetime value or just you know, how how what is it like even how good are the margins? And I don't I mean that in the context of like, is this a profitable customer? Daks: Mm. Yeah. Jamie Schneiderman: Right? Are they gonna be unhappy and wanting everything and but unwilling to pay? That's gonna be an issue. Okay. I would say so so look, so so let's look ahead. Let's talk about ahead, like over the next ⁓ year, two years. Where do you see the company going? Like what what is ⁓ where's what's your vision for what's next? Daks: So we are going more into AI at this ⁓ point. One thing that we we when we to customers, one thing that we figured out is sales teams have really hard time maintaining the communication with their customers and also the executives don't have a full visibility to what the sales team does. ⁓ team is really good at that to make sure that Jamie Schneiderman: Mm-hmm. Daks: the executive team doesn't look into know everything what they're doing. so We are what what we want to do is bring transparency to our CRM. So there is ⁓ like the sales team doesn't feel like it's a chore to update everything for executive team to see it. So we are trying to see how AI can bridge that gap the communication gap between the sales team and the executive team and even with the customer. How can AI resolve it? Because there are a lot of tools, right? AI can automate automate and send out text messages. AI can automate and send out reports based on the criteria that you give it. So ⁓ how do we how we make it seamlessly not a painful thing for So that's something that we are looking at. Jamie Schneiderman: Yeah, there is. Daks: at this point. Jamie Schneiderman: Awesome. I think that's great. okay, so so where can folks so if if someone wants to find you, how do they find you? How do they find the company? Daks: ⁓ they can find me on LinkedIn. if they want to find the company, our main company site is hexagonit solutions.com and CRM ⁓ is and you you you can email us and we have phone email, everything there. ⁓ And ⁓ if you to talk to me, it's dax at hexagonit solutions.com. ⁓ So like our sales team is great. sometimes not, but most of the time they're great. they'll immediately get back to you, but if they don't we we will catch that. Jamie Schneiderman: Okay. ⁓ no, and and we'll make sure that we put ⁓ all the links and everything in the description of this. So so when we're done. But but yeah, so we'll make sure that people can find you when when they're done with everything. So all right. Well listen, thank Dax, thanks so much for joining. This is great. ⁓ and and pretty exciting space that you're in and ⁓ we'll to be in as like AI becomes a bigger ⁓ Daks: Thank you. Jamie Schneiderman: place and you're trying to figure out a a a whole bunch of things. So that was ⁓ that was interesting, really great. ⁓ so thank you so much and thank you everyone who is watching, listening. and until next time. Daks: Mm-hmm. Thank you, Jamie.