Latest / AI Tools for Practicing Lawyers / Episode 024 AI, Wellness and the 4th Bucket

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Episode 024 AI, Wellness and the 4th Bucket · AI Tools for Practicing Lawyers

• 0:03
  SPEAKER_02: Welcome to AI Tools for Practicing Lawyers.
• 0:07
  SPEAKER_02: Practical, no-nonsense guidance to help attorneys put AI power to work in their practice right now.
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_00: If you've listened to this podcast for a while, you've heard me talk about what I call the four buckets of running a law practice.
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_00: The first bucket, sales and marketing.
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_00: How we get the phone to ring, how we find clients, how we communicate what we do, and how we get people to hire us and collect the money.
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_00: The second bucket is production.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_00: That's the work itself.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_00: If you're a lawyer, it's practicing law.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_00: That's why there are so many AI tools geared towards reviewing contracts and drafting pleadings.
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_00: You're serving your clients, you're producing the thing that they're actually paying you for.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_00: The third bucket is administration, which is everything that it takes to run the business behind the scenes.
• 1:01
  SPEAKER_00: Your people, your software, your finances, your policies, systems, HR.
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_00: Then there's the fourth bucket, which is personal development and well-being.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_00: Steve Covey called that sharpening the sword.
• 1:19
  SPEAKER_00: And that's you.
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_00: It's your health, it's your energy, your sleep, your fitness, your nutrition, your ability to manage stress, and ultimately your ability to show up every day and perform at a high level for your clients, your firm, your family, and yourself.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_00: You know, lawyers, if you're not working, you're not earning.
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_00: So the fourth bucket is much more important than anybody might have been led to believe.
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_00: And that's why I've come to think that the fourth bucket may actually be the most important bucket of them all.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_00: Because it's probably the bucket that most law firms spend the least amount of time and money on, but it might offer the greatest return on investment of any of them.
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_00: So today we're going to talk about something we don't talk about nearly enough on a podcast that's about AI tools for practicing lawyers, which is can we use AI to take better care of ourselves?
• 2:25
  SPEAKER_00: We're collecting more information about our bodies than ever before.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_00: An Apple Watch, a fitness tracker, a sleep tracker, a smart ring, continuous glucose monitors, all kinds of other devices.
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_00: But collecting the data really it's the easy part.
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_00: What should we actually do with it?
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_00: Can AI help us understand it?
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_00: Can it help us recognize patterns we would otherwise miss?
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_00: Can it help us decide what changes are worth making?
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_00: And maybe most importantly, once we decide to make those changes, can AI help us actually stick with them?
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_00: Because starting a wellness program, well, that's easy.
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_00: Sticking with one is something else entirely.
• 3:13
  SPEAKER_00: That's what we're talking about today.
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_00: AI, wellness, and the fourth bucket.
• 3:19
  SPEAKER_00: My guest today is Megan Grover, a nutrition scientist and educator based in New York City.
• 3:25
  SPEAKER_00: Megan holds a Master of Medical Science in Human Nutrition from the University of Sheffield and has spent more than a decade working at the intersection of nutrition science, education, research, and wellness.
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_00: She's taught human anatomy, physiology, and nutrition at the university level and has led education and clinical research initiatives in the wellness industry.
• 3:52
  SPEAKER_00: Megan is also the founder of MBG Wellness, which works with high-performing individuals and organizations to make health and wellness part of sustained professional performance rather than something we try to squeeze in around the edges.
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_00: And that makes Megan a particularly good person to help us explore the fourth bucket and what happens when we add AI and all of the health data we're now collecting about ourselves, and what happens when we add AI and all of the health data we're now collecting about ourselves to the equation.
• 4:31
  SPEAKER_00: I'm also very happy to have my wife, Dr.
• 4:35
  SPEAKER_00: Catherine Bowling, family medicine physician and longevity and wellness expert.
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_00: I'm Ron Drescher and welcome to another episode of AI Tools for Practicing Lawyers.
• 4:53
  SPEAKER_00: Megan, when we talked to kind of like figure out what we were going to talk about today, you told me about extremely successful lawyers who are basically running themselves into the ground.
• 5:07
  SPEAKER_00: Why are lawyers particularly bad at recognizing what their bodies are telling them?
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_01: For sure.
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I think so I live in New York City, and there's obviously a lot of big law firms here in the city.
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_01: And what I have often found with lawyers that I've worked with is their job requires a lot of them.
• 5:27
  SPEAKER_01: I've worked with lawyers where they're like, I had an, I had an overnight last night.
• 5:31
  SPEAKER_01: I haven't slept at all.
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_01: I had to work late, like through the night.
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_01: And there's just never, there's just never a time to like end your workday because it's just an endless amount of work.
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_01: So I think trying to institute a boundary of being like, I'm going to prioritize sleep, I'm going to prioritize exercise, and I'm most likely just going to grab whatever is available is really a huge challenge that I often see just because of the immense workload that people have.
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_00: You know, more and more of us are using frontier AI models to do our work and they never turn off.
• 6:07
  SPEAKER_00: Is this making the problem even worse?
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_01: I think it could be a little bit of both, right?
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_01: If I feel like people, when they use AI well, it can make your work more efficient or to get it can make a task that maybe take five hours, take one hour once you institute some good AI tools.
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_01: But at the end of the day, there's a lot of creativity behind that, which can now open up your doors for endless possibilities of other things that you could do, which goes along with what you're saying.
• 6:34
  SPEAKER_01: It can potentially add to more of your workload.
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_00: Kathy, I have witnessed personally you typing away into a chat bot well after midnight.
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_00: Is there a responsible use of AI that might help us enhance our own personal wellness?
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_03: I think you have to have a boundary.
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_03: I really do.
• 6:55
  SPEAKER_03: And I can really relate to what Megan was saying about lawyers and work just going on and on, because that's how it is for a lot of physicians, too.
• 7:04
  SPEAKER_03: You could just do your job 24 hours a day and you still wouldn't get everything done.
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_03: So I think one of the biggest hurdles that you have to overcome is be willing to set a boundary and then be willing to keep that boundary.
• 7:18
  SPEAKER_03: And those two things are really hard to do when you're driven and ambitious and trying to get your law practice up and running, I'm sure.
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_01: 100% agree.
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_01: I think I shared this example with you.
• 7:30
  SPEAKER_01: I was working with a lawyer a couple of years ago, based out of here in New York City, and she was at the very top of her firm.
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_01: I won't say which firm, but a massive firm.
• 7:39
  SPEAKER_01: It's internationally renowned.
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_01: And she was the chairperson or she became the chairperson when I was working with her.
• 7:45
  SPEAKER_01: And she, as a woman, had worked so hard to get to where she was in her career.
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_01: And I would often be like, hey, you're at a place where you can start to delegate tasks.
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_01: Some of the stuff that you're doing, you could probably give to a junior lawyer.
• 8:00
  SPEAKER_01: But she was, well, I've worked so hard to get here.
• 8:03
  SPEAKER_01: And I think in her mind, she was like, I still have to prove myself to stay where I am, especially because I'm competing in what is predominantly a man's world.
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_01: And so it was really hard for her to turn off, say no.
• 8:16
  SPEAKER_01: What Catherine is saying, set boundaries was was, and I'm imagining was a huge challenge.
• 8:23
  SPEAKER_00: Now, this is an interesting question that you raise, which is if you're a professional, if you're a doctor, if you're a lawyer, if if you're in that world, you know, finance, you're going to be working demanding hours.
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, there's no question about it.
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_00: Do you see women having a different response to that challenge than men?
• 8:45
  SPEAKER_01: No, I think if anything, especially if it's a woman who's in what has historically been a male-dominated field, like law is a good example, finance is another good example, even tech.
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_01: I think there is this mentality of really feeling like they have to prove themselves in that industry in order to be heard, in order to be recognized.
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_01: And if anything, I would say the stress load is almost higher just because of that feeling of having to prove your value in an industry that you historically have not been in.
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_00: I agree.
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_00: I agree.
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_00: I was gonna ask you what you what what you thought about that, Kathy.
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I agree with her.
• 9:25
  SPEAKER_03: I think that it's it's hard, there is a it elevated stress for women in a lot of different reasons, not only because they have to prove themselves many times in very male-dominated professions, but also because women carry a lot of the emotional and um physical work of the home too.
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_03: So they may be working super hard at their job and then they go home and they are the ones that are, you know, keeping track of their kids' schedules and doctor's appointments and running the house, and when they go grocery shopping and all that kind of stuff.
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_03: And even when you look at partnerships where the man is doing a lot, usually he calls that helping.
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_03: And that's it, that's very telling in how it feels to a woman who's like trying to run everything, even if the man is helping a lot.
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_00: So we're gonna talk a little bit about medical data and wellness data.
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_00: Is there a difference between those concepts, Megan?
• 10:33
  SPEAKER_01: It depends on what, like I would say, wellness data would be things like a measurable, like an aura ring or a whoop band that gives you a good sense, or even an Apple Watch that gives you a really good sense of your sleep, your exercise, and your stress.
• 10:47
  SPEAKER_01: And then medical data would be more like a continuous glucose monitor that that's information that your doctor could also utilize in practice.
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_01: So they there's definitely a crossover, but I would put those into slightly different categories.
• 11:04
  SPEAKER_00: So, I mean, I asked you that to set the stage because we are going to be talking about wearables and the collection of data.
• 11:13
  SPEAKER_00: So suppose I'm a 45-year-old lawyer who owns an Apple Watch and mostly use it to see who's calling me.
• 11:23
  SPEAKER_00: I I haven't really figured out its uses.
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_00: All right.
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_00: What information am I already collecting that really I ought to be paying attention to?
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 11:35
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know Apple watches as well as I do, like an aura ring and a whoop.
• 11:38
  SPEAKER_01: They're a little bit more exhaustive in the information that they provide.
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_01: But I know at the least, an Apple Watch is definitely going to be tracking your heart rate throughout the day.
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_01: It's so as a result, it's going to be tracking your level of strain because if you're feeling stressed, even if you're not exercising, your heart rate is going to be more elevated.
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_01: It's also going to be tracking the quality of your sleep.
• 12:01
  SPEAKER_01: I would say the aura ring probably does that the best.
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_01: And not just saying how much sleep you've had, but it'll be this is how much deep sleep you've had and how much REM sleep, which then goes into sleep quality rather than just quantity, which there's a huge difference there, right?
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_01: And as an example, there was a lawyer that I was working with here in New York, very busy, but for the most part, had pretty good boundaries and had a pretty was able to manage stress fairly well.
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_01: And so she was wearing a whoop band to track her sleep and exercise.
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_01: And she always had a really good percentage of deep and REM sleep.
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_01: So she would maybe only get six hours of sleep a night, because once she put her son to bed, she would continue to do some more work in the evening.
• 12:45
  SPEAKER_01: So even though her quantity was low, her quality was really high.
• 12:51
  SPEAKER_01: So as a result, she woke up feeling fairly rested and restored and was able to be effective in her day without feeling like she was slogging through it or that she needed to rely on five cups of coffee to get through.
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_01: And I would equate that a lot to like her mentality and being able to turn off her computer.
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_01: And even if it was midnight, she would still take a bath, maybe briefly watch a show just to turn her brain off so she could switch out of work mode into rest mode before she went to bed.
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_00: What I'm hearing is that we shouldn't be in a rush to get to sleep.
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_00: We should be more in a rush to get ready to get to sleep.
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_01: Yep.
• 13:36
  SPEAKER_01: If you want quality sleep, definitely.
• 13:39
  SPEAKER_03: Having a little nighttime routine, I think is really beneficial to helping people settle down and go to sleep because all of us have a lot going on in our head at any given moment.
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_03: And sometimes it's really hard to turn that off.
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_03: So having some kind of like you and I, we watch Family Guy.
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_03: That's our last thing that we do.
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_03: It's funny and it just helps us realize okay, we're getting ready to go to bed.
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna throw a few different data points out and maybe we could decide which are the ones to pay more attention to and which maybe not so much.
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_00: All right, heart rate.
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_00: Thumbs up, thumbs down.
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_00: Thumb, thumbs up.
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_00: Very important.
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_00: All right, resting heart rate.
• 14:23
  SPEAKER_00: Thumb very important.
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 14:25
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 14:25
  SPEAKER_00: So how about we talked a little bit about sleep.
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_00: Steps.
• 14:29
  SPEAKER_00: Is that a thing that the 10,000 steps thing?
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_00: That's made a lot of uh that's got a lot of attention lately.
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_00: Do we need 10,000 steps every day?
• 14:38
  SPEAKER_00: It depends.
• 14:38
  SPEAKER_03: It depends on what else we're doing.
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_03: You know, if you're lifting weights and swimming laps and you don't get 10,000 steps, it doesn't really matter.
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_03: If you're sitting on the couch all day long and you only get 100 steps, it matters.
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_01: Mm-hmm.
• 14:51
  SPEAKER_03: Agreed.
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 14:53
  SPEAKER_03: You know, I I tell my patients that the biggest benefit you get is getting up off the couch and moving.
• 15:00
  SPEAKER_03: It's a huge benefit.
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_03: And then the benefit of getting like 10,000 steps versus getting 5,000 steps isn't that big of a benefit.
• 15:09
  SPEAKER_03: It's a smaller benefit.
• 15:11
  SPEAKER_03: So the getting up and moving around is the biggest benefit that you can have, whether you get to 10,000 steps or not.
• 15:19
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 15:19
  SPEAKER_00: So if you end up at 8,000, don't panic.
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_00: You you still have tomorrow.
• 15:27
  SPEAKER_00: Megan, you mentioned a couple of devices that listeners may not be familiar with.
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 15:33
  SPEAKER_00: What's what's an aura ring?
• 15:35
  SPEAKER_00: How how does that work?
• 15:37
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 15:37
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm wearing one right now, the aura ring.
• 15:39
  SPEAKER_01: I it's very similar to a lot of people wear a whoop band, which it looks similar.
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_01: It kind of looks like you're wearing a, I can't think of the word, but it's like a little band.
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_01: I prefer the aura just because it looks like you're wearing a piece of jewelry.
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_01: It looks less tacky.
• 15:54
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and the way that the to differentiate them, people often explain the aura was designed by sleep scientists, whereas the whoop was more designed by exercise scientists.
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_01: And they track both, they track very similar things, but the aura is known for being a little bit more accurate for sleep data.
• 16:11
  SPEAKER_01: The whoop is a little bit more accurate for exercise data.
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_01: And so what the, and I've warned both of them, the aura basically throughout the day, it's always tracking a variety of things.
• 16:23
  SPEAKER_01: It's tracking your body temperature, is tracking your heart rate, is tracking your blood pressure.
• 16:29
  SPEAKER_01: And so, because of that, it's able to detect your level of strain or stress.
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_01: So, for example, a common strainslash stressor, which is good for you, is exercise, right?
• 16:41
  SPEAKER_01: You exercise, your heart rate goes up.
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_01: If you're doing something like running or really heavy lifting, it'll get close to max.
• 16:48
  SPEAKER_01: And so it'll say your strain went up, and that's very normal.
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_01: But also, if you're stressed during the day, even if you don't really notice it, your heart rate is naturally more elevated than it would be if you're in a rested state.
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_01: So the aura can tell you it'll be, oh, you were stressed for two hours of the day, and you only got, you had zero minutes of being of restoration, where your body fully came into a rested state.
• 17:17
  SPEAKER_01: And then at nighttime, it again, it attract, it tracks all of your biometrics.
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_01: It also tracks HRV, which is heart rate variability, and that assesses basically the level of stress that your body is at.
• 17:31
  SPEAKER_01: The higher HRV, the better, to put it into simple terms.
• 17:35
  SPEAKER_01: And so it tracks all that at night.
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_01: And then when you wake up in the morning, it's like, oh, this was your resting heart rate.
• 17:39
  SPEAKER_01: This was your average HRV, this was your amount of deep sleep, REM sleep, and then your total sleep.
• 17:46
  SPEAKER_01: And so it could be like you've had a really restorative night because you had two hours of deep sleep, two and a half hours of REM, your resting heart rate went all the way down to 46, your HRV was really high, like you're really ready to tackle the day.
• 18:03
  SPEAKER_01: Whereas another day could be like maybe you went to bed feeling really anxious, or maybe you went to bed, and I've done this before where you close your laptop and then you try to fall asleep right away.
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_01: And you usually never have good sleep.
• 18:15
  SPEAKER_01: Your resting heart rate is higher, your HRV is low, your deep sleep is low, your REM sleep is low.
• 18:23
  SPEAKER_01: And so even maybe you got seven and a half hours of sleep, but you wake up feeling terrible because your body never fully got into a rested state.
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_01: And so that's really what I feel like is the benefit of things like the aura ring and the whoop band.
• 18:37
  SPEAKER_01: It tells you on a regular basis, is my body truly rested?
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_01: Have I come back to that parasympathetic rest and digest state?
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_01: Or am I still kind of living in that flight or fight, even at nighttime when I'm sleeping?
• 18:52
  SPEAKER_00: Is there a learning curve to get acclimated to the aura ring?
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, initially, so from a even just a measurable technology perspective, the first month, you can't really look at your data because it the tracker is also getting to know you as well to figure out what is this person's average resting heart rate, what is their average HRV, what is their average respiratory rate, all of those things to have a general idea of if you're in a state of strain or in a state of rest, right?
• 19:23
  SPEAKER_01: Because your resting heart rate is probably different than mine.
• 19:26
  SPEAKER_01: And so, because of that, our strain levels are gonna look different, you know, if that makes sense.
• 19:33
  SPEAKER_00: So, Kathy, let's say a lawyer is listening to this and decides, you know what, enough is enough.
• 19:39
  SPEAKER_00: I've got to start getting some exercise in the three or four spare minutes I have every day.
• 19:45
  SPEAKER_00: How should they get started in implementing an exercise program for themselves?
• 19:52
  SPEAKER_03: So if you're not doing anything at all, I think the very first thing that you should do is walk.
• 19:59
  SPEAKER_03: You know, a lot of times people say, oh, don't start any heavy exercise until you see your doctor.
• 20:04
  SPEAKER_03: And that may make sense if you're older or you've had other problems like heart problems or whatever.
• 20:11
  SPEAKER_03: But walking is something you could do before you see your doctor.
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_03: And that's it, that would be my first thing.
• 20:17
  SPEAKER_03: And a lot of times I've told patients, I want you to walk 10 minutes today.
• 20:22
  SPEAKER_03: Because if somebody commits to walking 10 minutes, they're probably gonna start to walk more because it feels good.
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_03: And so that's the first thing I would say is start your exercise program by getting in some daily walking.
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_03: You know, start with 10 minutes, go up by five minutes every time if you can, or if you're in better shape, start with a half an hour.
• 20:43
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, whatever feels right to you, but start moving.
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_03: That's the first thing.
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_00: So start by walking to your treadmill, taking all the clothes that are sitting on it off of it, and start it up.
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_00: That's probably the first, the first order of business.
• 20:58
  SPEAKER_03: That's right, or go outside because honestly, the outside, it's good for our soul to be outside and to feel the weather and see the green and see how the earth changes with the seasons.
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_03: That's really healthy for people.
• 21:13
  SPEAKER_00: Megan, you talked about HRV.
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_00: What is HRV?
• 21:18
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so it's so HRV, it's heart rate variability.
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_01: It's basically it's it's the milliseconds in between each of your heartbeats.
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_01: And it's basically assessing how well your body is in a parasympathetic state.
• 21:33
  SPEAKER_01: So for example, if someone is an avid, as an elite athlete, right?
• 21:39
  SPEAKER_01: When you're an elite athlete, you have a really strong heart muscle.
• 21:44
  SPEAKER_01: And because it's just like your biceps, right?
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_01: When you do bicep curls, your biceps get bigger.
• 21:49
  SPEAKER_01: It's the same thing when you're with your heart.
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_01: Your heart is a muscle.
• 21:52
  SPEAKER_01: So the more our exercise you do, the more frequently your heart is beating and contracting and working.
• 21:59
  SPEAKER_01: So it becomes A bigger and stronger muscle and it becomes a more efficient muscle.
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_01: So that means as your heart gets stronger, it's able to, your resting heart rate starts to lower because your heart pumps out more blood with every given contraction compared to someone whose heart isn't as strong.
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_01: So with that individual, when your heart rate lowers because it's a stronger muscle, your heart is also more innervated by something called the parasympathetic nervous system, it is more activated.
• 22:30
  SPEAKER_01: And the parasympathetic nervous system is your rest and digest.
• 22:34
  SPEAKER_01: It's what you do when you're in a rested state, hopefully when you're sleeping.
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_01: And then the other one is your sympathetic, which is your flight or fight.
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_01: It's your stress response.
• 22:43
  SPEAKER_01: And those two nervous systems can't really operate simultaneously because it's different nerves, right?
• 22:49
  SPEAKER_01: So you can have like a sympathetic nerve that innervates your heart, and then a parasympathetic nerve that innervates your heart.
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_01: Sympathetic is going to make your heart rate faster, like when you exercise or when you're stressed.
• 23:01
  SPEAKER_01: Parasympathetic is going to slow it down.
• 23:04
  SPEAKER_01: So when someone is in more of a parasympathetic state, not only does your resting heart rate lower, but your HRV is higher, meaning that the milliseconds in between each of your heartbeats is longer and is more varied, which you want.
• 23:18
  SPEAKER_01: Like a variable HRV is a good sign that your body is in more of a parasympathetic state.
• 23:25
  SPEAKER_01: And it's a direct measurable for you because when you see your HRV and it's really low, that's a good indicator that your body is in more of a stress state for whatever reason.
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_01: It could be maybe you ate too late right before bed, maybe you had alcohol, or maybe you're just stressed about the day and what's coming the next day.
• 23:49
  SPEAKER_01: So it could indicate, and for women, it could also be based on where you're at in your cycle.
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_01: Like my HRV and my resting heart rate very much correlate to the time of the month based on your hormones.
• 24:01
  SPEAKER_01: So hormones can also have a big impact on that.
• 24:05
  SPEAKER_01: But HRV and resting heart rate are the best markers for seeing how stressed your body is.
• 24:11
  SPEAKER_00: Now, Kathy, I personally know that you've been using an Apple Watch for about 11 years.
• 24:17
  SPEAKER_00: What's been the best health-related use you've gotten out of that watch in that?
• 24:23
  SPEAKER_03: I think probably just being able to keep track of my exercise and how many days I'm completing the amount of exercise I want to complete, number one.
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_03: And the second thing would be how many calories I burn.
• 24:37
  SPEAKER_03: So, you know, if you're a if you're smaller like I am, you don't burn as many calories when you're doing things that as you do when you're larger.
• 24:46
  SPEAKER_03: And so there are times when I'm like, what?
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_03: That's all I burned?
• 24:50
  SPEAKER_03: It doesn't seem fair, but you know, it does keep track of that.
• 24:54
  SPEAKER_03: And so I like that.
• 24:55
  SPEAKER_00: Do you feel that it gives you a meaningfully accurate statement of your calories burned?
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_00: Or is it just close enough?
• 25:03
  SPEAKER_03: It's close enough.
• 25:04
  SPEAKER_03: I don't think it does, it gives me a meaningfully accurate amount, but it's better than me just going, you know what, I just lifted weights for half an hour.
• 25:13
  SPEAKER_03: I think that was a thousand calories, which of course it's not.
• 25:17
  SPEAKER_00: So, Megan, let's say we've got a Jetsons fitness exerciser who's just crazy about the data.
• 25:25
  SPEAKER_00: All right.
• 25:26
  SPEAKER_00: What are some of the key data points that they should be looking for if they decide they want to take on one of these wearables?
• 25:34
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 25:35
  SPEAKER_01: That's a great question.
• 25:37
  SPEAKER_01: Well, first off, exercise is different, right?
• 25:40
  SPEAKER_01: You can have an exercise that I like to call them type B and type A.
• 25:44
  SPEAKER_01: A type A workout is like VO2 max.
• 25:47
  SPEAKER_01: This is where your heart rate is at its closest to its max.
• 25:51
  SPEAKER_01: And that's gonna depend for people.
• 25:52
  SPEAKER_01: For me, if I'm in a VO2 max workout, my heart rate is getting to like 190.
• 25:58
  SPEAKER_01: And that basically means that you're at your max strain, you're recruiting your fast twitch muscle fibers, and your body's gonna get fatigued more quickly, and it triggers more of a stress response to get your heart rate to that number.
• 26:12
  SPEAKER_01: And those are really good workouts because they strengthen your heart muscle, they also strengthen your skeletal muscles.
• 26:18
  SPEAKER_01: You get stronger from those exercises and a stronger heart, but you also need more recovery.
• 26:25
  SPEAKER_01: So I think what a lot of people get into is they're like, oh, I need to do VO2 Max workouts every day, and then they burn out.
• 26:31
  SPEAKER_01: It's really important to pair them with recovery days and workouts that are gonna more focus on strength rather than VO2 Max.
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_01: And those are your type B workouts, which is like yoga, walks, Pilates, or lighter weights, things like that are really good because they still also strengthen your core muscles without putting your body into a state of stress and fatigue, if that makes sense.
• 27:00
  SPEAKER_01: So with a data, an aura will tell you and whoop as well, it'll tell you what kind of workout you're in.
• 27:05
  SPEAKER_01: It'll be you went for a run.
• 27:07
  SPEAKER_01: 15 minutes of this run was in zone five, which is the VO2 max zone, or it could be you went for a walk and you were only in zone one and zone two for the whole time.
• 27:18
  SPEAKER_00: All right.
• 27:19
  SPEAKER_00: You've decided you don't have enough time to exercise, but I'm gonna make time.
• 27:22
  SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna do it first thing in the morning, 6 a.m.
• 27:25
  SPEAKER_00: when I get up.
• 27:26
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm just exhausted.
• 27:27
  SPEAKER_00: I get up.
• 27:28
  SPEAKER_00: I haven't had coffee.
• 27:29
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, how do I fight through those feelings of fatigue and and being tired and actually break through and get on the machine or do whatever it is that I'm going to do for the next half hour?
• 27:41
  SPEAKER_03: You know, one of the things that I do for myself to get motivated that I've told my patients to do, that they have told me has worked for them, is I find a show that I really like and I only watch it when I'm working out.
• 27:55
  SPEAKER_03: And there are times when I don't really feel like working out, but I really want to see what happens on my show.
• 28:00
  SPEAKER_03: And so I go and I turn the show on and I start working out, and before I know it, I'm done and that next show is up and, you know, ready to go.
• 28:08
  SPEAKER_03: So I think having something that motivates you, whatever that something is, you know, whether it's that you love that particular kind of exercise or you work out with someone that's a friend that motivates you to do it, or you watch a show and you only watch it when you're working out, I think that's one of the keys that could keep you working out, even when you wake up and you feel like, I just don't want to do it.
• 28:33
  SPEAKER_00: For listeners, for listeners who uh care about the private lives of their favorite podcasters, you should know that Kathy and I are making our way through the timeline version of the Star Wars saga on the Disney Plus streaming channel.
• 28:51
  SPEAKER_00: There is so much content in the Star Wars uh universe, you will never run out.
• 28:58
  SPEAKER_00: Or at least it seems that way.
• 29:00
  SPEAKER_00: How about you, Megan?
• 29:01
  SPEAKER_00: How do you how do you get through the workout procrastination blues?
• 29:05
  SPEAKER_01: That's a great question.
• 29:06
  SPEAKER_01: I think for me it's varied at different seasons of my life, to be honest.
• 29:10
  SPEAKER_01: I feel I've definitely gone through periods like where I'm burnt out where I'm probably not exercising as much as normal because I'm like, okay, my body right now actually needs to rest and get back into a rested state.
• 29:23
  SPEAKER_01: Cause right now I'm in a full, activated, sympathetic response and my body needs recovery.
• 29:28
  SPEAKER_01: And other areas of life where I'm not in burnout and I'm in a healthier state, I think it's exactly what Kathy was saying.
• 29:36
  SPEAKER_01: You need to make it to a degree an enjoyable experience, right?
• 29:39
  SPEAKER_01: So for me, it's I have good music I'm gonna listen to.
• 29:43
  SPEAKER_01: And if it's gonna be a morning workout, then I'm gonna remind myself in the mornings if I wake up early, I get to experience a cup of coffee before I go for a run.
• 29:52
  SPEAKER_01: And you have to almost make it like an enjoyable ritual, you know.
• 29:56
  SPEAKER_01: So for me, it's I'm gonna get up, I'm gonna enjoy my espresso, and I'm gonna get my playlist ready, I'm gonna go out there.
• 30:02
  SPEAKER_01: And I know if I go in the morning, it's the park's not gonna be as crowded, it'll be cooler, it'll be a much more enjoyable experience versus trying to figure out how to fit it into your day when you have a really busy day.
• 30:15
  SPEAKER_01: And then also knowing you have better energy throughout the day if you worked out in the morning.
• 30:19
  SPEAKER_01: You have better mood, you're more focused.
• 30:22
  SPEAKER_03: You burn more calories all day long.
• 30:24
  SPEAKER_03: Yep.
• 30:25
  SPEAKER_00: All right.
• 30:26
  SPEAKER_00: So let's talk about uh the other side of the equation, which is the the food we put into our body.
• 30:32
  SPEAKER_00: That's the problem.
• 30:34
  SPEAKER_00: Well, what's the problem?
• 30:35
  SPEAKER_00: What's the problem?
• 30:36
  SPEAKER_03: The food we put into our body.
• 30:38
  SPEAKER_03: It's so easy to put the wrong food into our body, and it tastes so damn good.
• 30:44
  SPEAKER_03: It's wrong.
• 30:45
  SPEAKER_00: All right, so so all right, we've got a busy professional.
• 30:49
  SPEAKER_00: We managed to get them half an hour onto some sort of exercise program in the morning.
• 30:55
  SPEAKER_00: They don't have time to cook their meals and shop at Whole Foods and prepare a balanced diet.
• 31:01
  SPEAKER_00: What kind of eating strategies should our busy professional consider?
• 31:06
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I am all about keeping your meals as simple as possible.
• 31:12
  SPEAKER_01: I think people often think to be healthy, it's gonna be complicated.
• 31:16
  SPEAKER_01: And if it was, I wouldn't be healthy either because I'm not gonna spend five hours meal prepping or cooking meals.
• 31:23
  SPEAKER_01: So I think it's make it easy and then buy the essentials.
• 31:26
  SPEAKER_01: And you go to the grocery store, stock up on meats that you like, and then frozen organic vegetables because they're just as good.
• 31:35
  SPEAKER_01: They're they're frozen upon being ripe and picking them.
• 31:39
  SPEAKER_01: And then literally all it takes is just putting it on a skillet and warming it up, you know?
• 31:44
  SPEAKER_01: And then with meat, when when you cook it, cook a bunch at the same time.
• 31:49
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe, maybe spend an hour on a Sunday just cooking all of your meats so that when you have a busy week, all you have to do is heat up your frozen vegetables that are already pre-chopped as well, which is a benefit, especially if you chop a Whole Foods, and then heat up your meat that you already cooked, and then that's dinner, and that's easy.
• 32:08
  SPEAKER_01: And then for the days, like a lot of times we're bringing like a thermos full of coffee to work anyway.
• 32:14
  SPEAKER_01: Bring another thermos that's full of protein smoothie, where you just in the blender threw in a bunch of greens, threw in a little bit of berries, threw in really good quality protein, maybe some nut butter to make it more filling, blend it, and then now you have a meal on the go.
• 32:31
  SPEAKER_01: And then whatever snacks you bring with you for the workday, if you don't have a lot of time to eat lunch, make sure it's stuff that's like filling so that you're not constantly snacking.
• 32:40
  SPEAKER_01: Nuts are a good choice, or beef jerky sticks, or an apple with peanut butter, stuff like that that's actually gonna give you quality energy versus grabbing a muffin at the coffee shop, which leads to a blood sugar spike.
• 32:54
  SPEAKER_01: And an hour later, you're gonna not only be hungry, you're also gonna be exhausted and then need another cup of coffee.
• 33:01
  SPEAKER_00: I'm sitting here and I'm imagining that I'm listening to this podcast as I'm driving to work and I'm thinking, I'm not doing any of that.
• 33:11
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not gonna start cooking.
• 33:12
  SPEAKER_00: I'm just not doing that.
• 33:13
  SPEAKER_00: So are there services that will deliver pre-made or easy to cook uh meals that are nutritious and will get you to where you want to be?
• 33:26
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, there's some amazing meal delivery services.
• 33:29
  SPEAKER_01: I recommend that to clients all the time, where they will, or there's even, depending, obviously depends on your budget.
• 33:35
  SPEAKER_01: There's some even where like a chef will come to your house, they'll prepare all your meals for the week, and then all you have to do is warm it up.
• 33:43
  SPEAKER_01: Or you can also do meal delivery services, which is a little bit more budget friendly, but can also be very healthy, and people can select, oh, it's just for dinner, or they're gonna deliver lunches, dinner, and breakfast for the whole week.
• 33:57
  SPEAKER_01: And that is a huge time saver and uh diet saver for a lot of people.
• 34:03
  SPEAKER_00: So you wouldn't uh discourage somebody from going into their Chat GPT interface and saying, find me the five best food delivery services that are going to actually keep me healthy in the New York City area.
• 34:18
  SPEAKER_01: No, not at all.
• 34:18
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's a great idea.
• 34:20
  SPEAKER_01: I just usually my parameters for a good meal delivery service is A, what oils do they use?
• 34:27
  SPEAKER_01: If they're using seed oils, I'm like, no, thank you.
• 34:30
  SPEAKER_01: So they need to either be using good olive oil, avocado oil, or even like grass-fed butter for cooking.
• 34:37
  SPEAKER_01: I look for that.
• 34:39
  SPEAKER_01: And then secondly, is this person going to be getting enough protein?
• 34:43
  SPEAKER_01: I want their breakfast and lunch to be high protein, high vegetables so that they feel full and don't have a blood sugar crash.
• 34:53
  SPEAKER_01: And then dinner, same thing, but they can have a little bit more carbs at dinner to help them fall asleep.
• 34:59
  SPEAKER_00: So, Kathy, let's say somebody listening to Megan's advice rings up a service, they have their meals for a couple of days, they go to their glucose monitor that shows that their blood sugar is spiked, and they say, I'm not gonna order from that service anymore.
• 35:16
  SPEAKER_00: What what advice would you give to that person?
• 35:20
  SPEAKER_03: Well, first, my first piece of advice would be maybe it's not the food that got delivered to you.
• 35:26
  SPEAKER_03: Maybe you have a problem with your blood sugar and you might want to get that checked out.
• 35:31
  SPEAKER_03: That would be my first piece of advice.
• 35:33
  SPEAKER_00: So it's it's not the crumbled cookies that I ate just before bed and that.
• 35:39
  SPEAKER_03: It depends on what you ate.
• 35:41
  SPEAKER_03: If you're saying that you're gonna have crumbled cookie be your delivery service, then you're gonna have high blood sugar.
• 35:47
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 35:48
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 35:49
  SPEAKER_00: So maybe they should just get their blood sugar checked.
• 35:53
  SPEAKER_03: Uh well, if they're checking something they if they have something that's checking their blood sugar and it's showing that their blood sugar is high, maybe even if they haven't eaten or if they haven't eaten anything sugary, but it's high and it's staying up, then yeah, they should get their blood sugar checked because they could have, you know, type two diabetes.
• 36:14
  SPEAKER_03: Mm-hmm.
• 36:15
  SPEAKER_01: And that can also be stress too.
• 36:17
  SPEAKER_01: Like stress will also cause a blood sugar spike.
• 36:20
  SPEAKER_03: Sure.
• 36:20
  SPEAKER_03: Or if you're sick, or there's a whole bunch of different reasons why.
• 36:24
  SPEAKER_03: But if if if you're seeing it and it's worrying you, then you should get it checked out.
• 36:29
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 36:30
  SPEAKER_00: So it's six months later.
• 36:32
  SPEAKER_00: We're in December.
• 36:33
  SPEAKER_00: And we have our aura, we have our Apple Watch, we have our glucose monitor.
• 36:38
  SPEAKER_00: We've collected six months' worth of data.
• 36:41
  SPEAKER_00: First of all, is that is that a meaningful uh subset, Megan?
• 36:45
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's great.
• 36:46
  SPEAKER_01: Because then you can start to see trends like November, I was really stressed.
• 36:50
  SPEAKER_01: October, I felt great because of XYZ or whatever.
• 36:54
  SPEAKER_00: So, what can AI do with this information that I really can't reasonably do myself, if anything?
• 37:01
  SPEAKER_01: Well, first off, I think it can break down some of the complex information because you can share with it your data for the week.
• 37:08
  SPEAKER_01: You could be this was my average HRV, this was my average resting heart rate, deep sleep, REM sleep.
• 37:14
  SPEAKER_01: I feel terrible.
• 37:15
  SPEAKER_01: Can you explain to me why?
• 37:18
  SPEAKER_01: AI will do a pretty good job analyzing data because it's done, it can do this with lab work too.
• 37:24
  SPEAKER_01: It can do a good job of painting a picture.
• 37:27
  SPEAKER_01: This is saying you're highly stressed, that's likely leading to your fatigue.
• 37:32
  SPEAKER_01: But obviously, AI doesn't know why you're stressed.
• 37:35
  SPEAKER_01: It doesn't know what's going on in your life, it's just looking at the data.
• 37:39
  SPEAKER_01: It doesn't know what your diet's like.
• 37:40
  SPEAKER_01: None of that information is just basing off of your specific changes in data.
• 37:46
  SPEAKER_03: But you could add all that.
• 37:47
  SPEAKER_03: You can tell it what your diet's like, and you can tell it like the hours that you worked and what you found to be really stressful.
• 37:54
  SPEAKER_03: And it might be able to tease out some areas where you could be healthier.
• 37:59
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 38:00
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, AI can get very thorough if you want it to.
• 38:04
  SPEAKER_01: It can be, I mean, it, and it depends on how it's coded.
• 38:08
  SPEAKER_01: People can put background things into AI being like, I want you to be more strict with me, or I want you to be more kind to me.
• 38:14
  SPEAKER_01: That will also have an influence.
• 38:16
  SPEAKER_01: But AI can be like, you need this much more sleep, you need more of a wind down routine before bed.
• 38:23
  SPEAKER_01: You could potentially take these supplements and then you could tell them, like, these are the medications that I'm on.
• 38:29
  SPEAKER_01: Will it interfere with those medications?
• 38:30
  SPEAKER_01: Will it interfere with those supplements?
• 38:32
  SPEAKER_01: AI can break all of that down for you.
• 38:35
  SPEAKER_01: And for the most part, it does a pretty good job, I would say.
• 38:39
  SPEAKER_01: Not always, but 90% of the time.
• 38:42
  SPEAKER_00: Let's say you wanted to get onto a course of supplements.
• 38:46
  SPEAKER_00: I a good a good source of information about that, or can you think of better sources of information to begin a supplement regime?
• 38:54
  SPEAKER_00: What do you think, Kathy?
• 38:56
  SPEAKER_03: So, me as a physician, I I'm very pro-supplement.
• 39:01
  SPEAKER_03: I like supplements, as you know, Ronnie, because I make you take a whole bowl of them every single morning.
• 39:06
  SPEAKER_03: But night.
• 39:08
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, and night.
• 39:10
  SPEAKER_03: And I know a lot about supplements, but I don't think there are a tremendous amount of doctors that feel that same way as I feel or even have the knowledge about supplements.
• 39:21
  SPEAKER_03: So while inside, what I want to say is talk to your doctor.
• 39:26
  SPEAKER_03: That might not even be the best place to go because if your doctor's anti-supplement and there are a lot of doctors that are, you're not going to get any good information.
• 39:36
  SPEAKER_03: But you could ask AI about supplements and what each one does and whether it might benefit you.
• 39:44
  SPEAKER_03: And I have found just talking to Chat GPT about some of the things that I use and recommend, that it's been pretty helpful in that.
• 39:54
  SPEAKER_03: It it tells me not only the good things, but it tells me the things to watch out for when I might not want to take it, when it might interfere with medication that I'm taking, when I might want to not take two of them together but split them up, things like that.
• 40:10
  SPEAKER_01: I think also with the supplement, but I can give you a little bit of a supplement routine.
• 40:15
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's still really important to talk to someone who's an expert, whether that's a nutrition expert or consultant or a dietitian who specializes in that area just because I have found I've often corrected AI where I'll be like, okay, I get where you came to that conclusion, but what about XYZ mechanism or what about if this person is in this particular situation?
• 40:38
  SPEAKER_01: And then it'll be like, oh yeah, it'll be like you're right.
• 40:41
  SPEAKER_01: Because it there's aspects like it is an amazing technology, but it's not 100% foolproof.
• 40:48
  SPEAKER_01: And so I think it can often lead people down a path where now they're like, oh, I don't need any experts because I can just consult AI when not necessarily all of that information is 100% factual.
• 41:01
  SPEAKER_03: Or it's not that it isn't factual, is that there are subtle differences that if you're an expert, you know about.
• 41:09
  SPEAKER_03: So it's like it might tell you something, and that may be technically true, but there are these subtleties that you have to understand in order to place it where it's really supposed to go.
• 41:21
  SPEAKER_03: I think that's probably the biggest problem.
• 41:23
  SPEAKER_03: It's the same with medicine.
• 41:25
  SPEAKER_03: If you look up your symptoms on medicine, you're gonna die.
• 41:28
  SPEAKER_03: Basically, no matter what you look up, ultimately you're gonna die.
• 41:32
  SPEAKER_03: And so, I mean, there's subtleties in there that steer you away from dying every single time.
• 41:38
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 41:39
  SPEAKER_00: Megan, what's your protocol when you get a new client?
• 41:43
  SPEAKER_00: What are the questions you ask?
• 41:45
  SPEAKER_00: How do you how do you help them find that solution?
• 41:48
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I always like to come with the approach that everybody is very different because first off, we all have different backgrounds, right?
• 41:56
  SPEAKER_01: What works for Kathy may not work for me, and same may not work for Ron.
• 42:00
  SPEAKER_01: And it's important to look at everybody as a unique entity.
• 42:04
  SPEAKER_01: And first off, you have to think about how often do they exercise, how much do they sleep at night, what is their health history?
• 42:12
  SPEAKER_01: Do they have autoimmunity?
• 42:14
  SPEAKER_01: Do they have anxiety, depression?
• 42:17
  SPEAKER_01: And then a big question I also ask is okay, when you because I work a lot of people who deal with stress, which is very connected to things like autoimmunity.
• 42:26
  SPEAKER_01: And I've worked with a lot of people and who have autoimmunity as well.
• 42:30
  SPEAKER_01: I always ask, okay, when you first wake up in the morning, how do you feel?
• 42:34
  SPEAKER_01: Do you feel exhausted?
• 42:36
  SPEAKER_01: Do you feel like you need to hit your snooze button 50 times?
• 42:40
  SPEAKER_01: And then do you need a lot of caffeine to wake up?
• 42:43
  SPEAKER_01: Or do you wake up super energized, which is great?
• 42:47
  SPEAKER_01: Or are you one of those people who at the moment you're you have so much anxiety that you can't fall asleep at night, you have insomnia, and you wake up already feeling really wired.
• 42:59
  SPEAKER_01: So both of those two categories, the exhausted person and the other one who can't sleep, they both are dealing with stress.
• 43:06
  SPEAKER_01: And so someone could say, I'm dealing with stress.
• 43:09
  SPEAKER_01: And if you looked at them as the same, you would treat them equally.
• 43:14
  SPEAKER_01: But I have found, especially someone who's dealing with anxiety and insomnia, the approach for them is very different than the approach for the person who's now in the exhaustion stage.
• 43:25
  SPEAKER_01: They need different herbal support, they even need different diet support, they need different workout routines, even though both of them fall into stress category.
• 43:35
  SPEAKER_01: So it's really important when I'm working with someone, I really want to paint a very clear picture of how they're currently feeling right now so that they get the best support possible, and so that you're not adding to their anxiety or you're not adding to their fatigue.
• 43:56
  SPEAKER_00: And let's say you decided that you you wanted to get Help from an AI tool to help you do that.
• 44:03
  SPEAKER_00: How would you try to set that up?
• 44:05
  SPEAKER_00: How would you kind of push the capacities of the AI tool to really find a solution that's going to help you stick with that new routine?
• 44:14
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 44:15
  SPEAKER_01: To have a to kind of schedule out your day.
• 44:17
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 44:18
  SPEAKER_01: I think you have to be extremely specific and extremely honest.
• 44:22
  SPEAKER_01: So you have to, these are the medications I'm currently taking.
• 44:26
  SPEAKER_01: These are the supplements I'm taking.
• 44:28
  SPEAKER_01: This is how many hours I work a day.
• 44:31
  SPEAKER_01: This is how long it takes me to commute to work.
• 44:34
  SPEAKER_01: This would be the time frame during the day where I could potentially exercise.
• 44:39
  SPEAKER_01: My struggle right now is chronic fatigue and blood sugar imbalance, right?
• 44:45
  SPEAKER_01: You just be very clear with what is going on so that it can help give you a clearer format.
• 44:51
  SPEAKER_01: But I would say to give AI a very clear format, you also have to have a pretty strong understanding of your own body and what you're currently experiencing, which I find not everybody has a strong understanding.
• 45:04
  SPEAKER_00: That's where the wearable data comes in.
• 45:07
  SPEAKER_00: Right?
• 45:07
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, can can you put on a whoop, an aura ring, an Apple Watch, a Garmin, a Stello by Dexcom?
• 45:16
  SPEAKER_00: Can you put these on and actually have data that you can then use to really make yourself healthier?
• 45:25
  SPEAKER_00: Does it really work that way?
• 45:26
  SPEAKER_00: Or or is it just kind of hype?
• 45:29
  SPEAKER_03: It works that way, but you, the person, have to do the work too.
• 45:34
  SPEAKER_03: It's not like you put on an aura ring and you're like, I'm healthier.
• 45:37
  SPEAKER_03: I just put the ring on.
• 45:38
  SPEAKER_03: It worked.
• 45:39
  SPEAKER_03: You have to find the data, you have to figure out what's going to make you healthier, and then you have to actually do it.
• 45:46
  SPEAKER_03: That's the hard part.
• 45:47
  SPEAKER_00: How do we stop ourselves from demanding too much of ourselves and holding ourselves to an unrealistically high standard so that when we inevitably have a day or two or a week where because of work or injury or family commitments, we fall off our program.
• 46:06
  SPEAKER_00: How do we how do we manage our own demands and expectations of ourselves so that we can get back on that horse if we fall off?
• 46:15
  SPEAKER_01: I always tell people you need to treat your body like you would a good friend.
• 46:20
  SPEAKER_01: And I think a lot of people are way too hard on themselves and don't have enough kindness.
• 46:25
  SPEAKER_01: A good example, last summer I was working with a client and I was like, you know, I think for you, something we need to work on is your stress response.
• 46:34
  SPEAKER_01: And she's like, Oh, I'm not really that stressed.
• 46:36
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, but she was wearing a whoop and it was really helpful.
• 46:39
  SPEAKER_01: So I was like, okay, and we also did some cortisol tests.
• 46:41
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, your cortisol says otherwise.
• 46:43
  SPEAKER_01: You need to deal with your stress response.
• 46:46
  SPEAKER_01: And so I was like, let's lower your exercise, which was really helpful because we lowered her exercise, high intensity.
• 46:53
  SPEAKER_01: And then her whoop still said her strain was like through the roof.
• 46:57
  SPEAKER_01: So it was a very eye-opening experience for her because she wasn't doing a lot of exercise.
• 47:01
  SPEAKER_01: Strain was real still very high.
• 47:03
  SPEAKER_01: And she was like, You're right.
• 47:05
  SPEAKER_01: She's like, everything sends me over the edge, and I'm highly anxious.
• 47:10
  SPEAKER_01: So then our main focus was let's focus on helping you get into your body, be more kind to yourself, and be more rested.
• 47:20
  SPEAKER_01: And that was her prerogative then.
• 47:22
  SPEAKER_01: How do I help myself fall asleep at night?
• 47:24
  SPEAKER_01: Can I do some breathing exercises during the day or short meditations to just calm my body down?
• 47:31
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I think this is the first time that we've talked about meditation, but I think meditation is like one of the most powerful things that you can do for yourself in any situation.
• 47:42
  SPEAKER_03: Like what you just said, getting yourself back on the horse as somebody who's been thrown off the horse viciously a few times in my life.
• 47:52
  SPEAKER_03: I feel like meditating really helped me get to a place where I could get back on the horse.
• 48:00
  SPEAKER_00: Well, you know, this is a great conversation, and we could go on and on, but I'd like to transition to our practice signal segment, which is what we do on episodes where we talk about how a lawyer in the wild is dealing with a problem that they're having and what suggestions we have, and maybe whether AI could help.
• 48:23
  SPEAKER_00: So they all come from Reddit because that's where people let down their guard and kind of show who they really are and what they really care about.
• 48:33
  SPEAKER_00: And one of them is a lawyer who turned down an offer from a mid-sized firm after learning that their requirement was 2,700 billable hours a year, which I have never heard of that much.
• 48:52
  SPEAKER_00: God bless them for having so much work that they can actually keep their lawyers busy for 2,700 hours a year.
• 49:00
  SPEAKER_00: And that's not that doesn't count lunch.
• 49:02
  SPEAKER_00: That doesn't count some admin work, that doesn't count the time you have to spend adding up your billing.
• 49:10
  SPEAKER_00: All right.
• 49:11
  SPEAKER_00: Is 2,700 hours a year is that manageable, Megan?
• 49:16
  SPEAKER_01: I it would be tough.
• 49:17
  SPEAKER_01: I feel you would have a hard time balancing your life of like how would you prioritize your relationships?
• 49:24
  SPEAKER_01: How would you exercise?
• 49:25
  SPEAKER_01: How would you find time to eat?
• 49:28
  SPEAKER_01: I I it's tough because, and I see this a lot in New York, it's such a go-getter city, and you have a lot of insanely successful people who have worked really hard to get to where they are today.
• 49:41
  SPEAKER_01: But eventually that kind of stress does catch up to you because your body can only remain in a sympathetic state for so long before stuff starts to shut down.
• 49:52
  SPEAKER_01: Excess cortisol and adrenaline always being pumped through your body is highly inflammatory.
• 49:58
  SPEAKER_01: It's the root cause for so much disease pathology.
• 50:02
  SPEAKER_01: And at the end of the day, it's like for what benefit?
• 50:05
  SPEAKER_01: You know, maybe to make another like an extra 10K or 20K.
• 50:10
  SPEAKER_01: And you kind of have to ask yourself some hard questions of like, is that worth it for my health and my longevity?
• 50:17
  SPEAKER_03: How many hours is that a week?
• 50:18
  SPEAKER_03: Because I don't have a calculator in my head.
• 50:21
  SPEAKER_00: Well, it's 225 per month.
• 50:24
  SPEAKER_00: You know what it reminds me of, Kathy?
• 50:26
  SPEAKER_00: It reminds me of when you were in your residency.
• 50:29
  SPEAKER_00: I was thinking a little bit about the red light, yellow light, green light rotations.
• 50:34
  SPEAKER_00: So that one for us.
• 50:36
  SPEAKER_03: So I went to med school late.
• 50:38
  SPEAKER_03: I was 49 years old.
• 50:40
  SPEAKER_03: And so Ronnie and I were together, and we decided that we would try to manage the stress of residency in this way.
• 50:48
  SPEAKER_03: Every month, they switch you.
• 50:50
  SPEAKER_03: You go someplace else and do something else.
• 50:52
  SPEAKER_03: And some were incredibly stressful, like nights in hospital.
• 50:57
  SPEAKER_03: It's like 16 hours every day that you worked and you had two days off a month.
• 51:02
  SPEAKER_03: That was it.
• 51:03
  SPEAKER_03: And so we had this thing where if it was a really hard thing that I was doing, it would be a red light month.
• 51:10
  SPEAKER_03: And Ronnie would have to give me all kinds of grace and forgive anything that I did without arguing or anything.
• 51:16
  SPEAKER_03: And if it was a green light residency which placement, which was like outpatient, easy stuff, I would have to give him all kinds of grace and not never argue with him about anything.
• 51:27
  SPEAKER_03: He said, And if it was yellow light, then we just behaved normally.
• 51:30
  SPEAKER_03: And that really helped us get through residency because it was a extremely stressful time, I have to say.
• 51:37
  SPEAKER_03: You just shut yourself down, put your head down and do it.
• 51:41
  SPEAKER_03: And you know, try not to kill yourself, honestly.
• 51:44
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 51:45
  SPEAKER_03: That's hard.
• 51:46
  SPEAKER_03: I don't think it's good for you in any way, emotionally, mentally, or physically.
• 51:53
  SPEAKER_00: So, Megan, what's what do you have going on right now professionally?
• 51:58
  SPEAKER_00: Do you have any any events coming up that you'd want to talk to us about?
• 52:02
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I'm I've currently, I think when we talked, I launched my own little boutique wellness company where I work with companies as well as individuals, um, taking on clients.
• 52:14
  SPEAKER_01: And so from a company level, it's basically helping them better support their employees in-house.
• 52:20
  SPEAKER_01: Whereas on a one-on-one basis, that's working with you privately for your own specific concerns.
• 52:28
  SPEAKER_00: All right.
• 52:28
  SPEAKER_00: And Dr.
• 52:29
  SPEAKER_00: Bowling, do you have anything on the horizon that you want to share with our listeners?
• 52:34
  SPEAKER_03: Well, you know, I volunteer at the community health clinic doing primary care one day a week.
• 52:39
  SPEAKER_03: And ultimately, I would like to open a very small, like 20-person uh wellness longevity practice where I do individual counseling with patients to help expand their uh health span, not necessarily their lifespan, but I want them to be as healthy as possible for as long as possible.
• 53:01
  SPEAKER_01: I love it.
• 53:03
  SPEAKER_00: Megan, any any parting thoughts for our listeners?
• 53:06
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think keep it simple.
• 53:08
  SPEAKER_01: I think, I think right now there's so much biohacking out there and it can be really overwhelming.
• 53:13
  SPEAKER_01: And it's like eat foods that nourish your body.
• 53:16
  SPEAKER_01: So I always tell people eat what people have been eating for the last thousand years, right?
• 53:21
  SPEAKER_01: Vegetables, meat, fruit, maybe some dairy if you're not, don't have an inflammatory response to that, and stick to that.
• 53:29
  SPEAKER_01: Real food is good food.
• 53:31
  SPEAKER_01: Anything that comes out of a box, you should probably limit your intake out.
• 53:36
  SPEAKER_00: All right.
• 53:36
  SPEAKER_00: Well, those are great uh parting thoughts.
• 53:39
  SPEAKER_00: Megan, thank you so much for being with us.
• 53:41
  SPEAKER_00: I'll have all of your information in the show notes.
• 53:44
  SPEAKER_00: So if anybody wants to reach out and and and raise their level of health, they'll know how to find you.
• 53:50
  SPEAKER_00: And uh, Dr.
• 53:51
  SPEAKER_00: Bowling, anybody who wants to find you, they can just get to you through me.
• 53:57
  SPEAKER_00: All right.
• 53:57
  SPEAKER_00: Well, thank you both so much for being here.
• 54:00
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, I learned a lot, and this has been AI Tools for Practicing Lawyers, and we'll see you all next week.
• 54:09
  SPEAKER_02: That's it for today's episode of AI Tools for Practicing Lawyers.
• 54:13
  SPEAKER_02: Thanks for listening.
• 54:14
  SPEAKER_02: We'll see you next time.