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110. Before the Difficult Conversation: Finding Your Emotional Balance · The Leader in You

• 0:01
  SPEAKER_01: Experience work interactions in a different and refreshing light.
• 0:05
  SPEAKER_01: This is the Leader in You podcast brought to you by EMC Leaders.
• 0:10
  SPEAKER_01: Taking care of the teams you care about.
• 0:13
  SPEAKER_01: We bring the signs of attachment and emotional connection with insight from the last 20 years to share how you can overcome conflict issues at work and build strong team relationships as well as the connected culture.
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_00: Hi everyone and welcome back to the Leader in You podcast brought to you by EMC Leaders.
• 0:39
  SPEAKER_00: I'm so excited to be here.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_00: My name is Paulina, and I am here with the amazing Dr.
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_00: Lola Gershfeld.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome, Mom.
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_00: Hello, Paulina.
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_01: So nice to be here with you.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_01: And hello, everyone.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_01: It is such a pleasure to always share these times with you.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you for joining us.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_00: Yay! I actually really love this time right now in the year because we're transitioning into fall and all the holidays, and it's like Q4, you know, for business.
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_00: Yep.
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_00: And so the stress kind of increases tremendously depending on whether they're hitting their quota for the year, or maybe if companies have like really big, big specials going on for the holidays.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_00: So I love this time of year because there's more conflicts.
• 1:37
  unknown: Definitely.
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_01: It's an interesting way to put that.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, definitely.
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_01: There's more conflicts, more stress.
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_01: And also, I mean, I feel like it's fall time because uh there's a change of season.
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, Jack uh uh Jack and I, we just came back from a trip in Portland, Maine.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_01: We took a hiking and biking trip and we saw the change of season.
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_00: It was so beautiful there.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, yeah, you were telling me.
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_00: You were telling me how you were doing all kinds of outdoor adventures.
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, yes, exactly.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_00: It was so fun.
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_00: That is amazing.
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_00: So with the stress and the holidays and this kind of season coming in, there is a lot more conflicts.
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_00: And I really wanted to today, we have a really great topic for you today.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_00: We're going to lean into what it's like bringing your emotions to work.
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_00: And we're actually today going to demonstrate exactly what that looks like.
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_00: So, one of the things that I feel is very important when we have a conflict is also being able to use the EMC process and the form to work through your own uh feelings and emotions about a conflict before you can maybe have a conversation with someone that you're dealing with.
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_00: And actually, uh Dr.
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_00: Lola and I talked about this when we were at Renowned Health.
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_00: You know, sometimes it's so a lot of times I would say, not even sometimes, it is so scary to have a conversation, a difficult conversation, to have a conversation that involves difficult feelings and involves things that maybe you're too um scared to talk about, maybe you feel ashamed about your experiencing.
• 3:23
  SPEAKER_00: And so doing the form in a way that really helps organize your feelings and the process that works makes it easier for you to even have a conversation to begin with.
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_00: And one of the things that the questions that came up while we're teaching at Renown was you know, what do you do if the other person doesn't have this process, doesn't know how to communicate this way?
• 3:45
  SPEAKER_00: And actually learning how to communicate in this way will help guide a conversation effectively, even if the other person doesn't know how to respond.
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_00: So, right?
• 3:58
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, no, absolutely.
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_01: And actually, this is such a good point because in the beginning I remember uh you know arguing with my colleague, it's not like no, you always have to have two people to resolve a conflict because uh it's always the disconnection that we're trying to repair.
• 4:17
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, but over and over again, I found that even if you do it by yourself, and sometimes the other person is not available, they feel uncomfortable, maybe they feel kind of uh inequipped or inadequate, how to express their and they don't know, right?
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_01: They don't know what this process looks like and what it is, and they people feel like, oh, I don't want to be manipulated, I don't want to be put in this place, or I don't want to be vulnerable because then I'm exposing myself to get hurt again.
• 4:51
  SPEAKER_01: So they make the, I mean, it's definitely protection, right?
• 4:55
  SPEAKER_01: It's their fear, which is valid, and also um, but they still long for that connection.
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_01: It's interesting, right?
• 5:03
  SPEAKER_01: They protect themselves, but they still long for that connection.
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_01: And then I think when the person has an opportunity, like pursuers usually are the ones who will say, like, yes, I want to learn it, and pursue take an active approach, saying, like, what can I do now?
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_01: I what can I do with this relationship?
• 5:23
  SPEAKER_01: So I think uh individual, I am convinced that uh people who have the process, they can do it themselves, and they can definitely start to uh uh shape, reshape their pattern, shape their con their conversations, definitely.
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and actually it's really interesting because you know how we've talked about before many times.
• 5:49
  SPEAKER_00: There's the two kind of positions we take in a conflict, either withdraw or pursuer.
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_00: And the goal, what is the ultimate goal?
• 5:57
  SPEAKER_00: Enlightenment.
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_00: What is the ultimate goal when you learn the EMC process so well that you can do it in your sleep, right?
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_00: You can communicate through the emotional language in your sleep.
• 6:09
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, the goal is to be able to engage a withdrawer and to soften a pursuer.
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_00: And so, what does that actually mean?
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_00: And like, I say English language, most people don't necessarily understand those terms.
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_00: And what that is like, imagine you are on a balance beam, right?
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_00: And when we get kind of uh hit with a dis uncomfortable or um a feeling that we doesn't feel good in a conflict, we get kind of thrown off of this balance beam, right?
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_00: And sometimes we have those two extremes where we are thrown completely one direction, where we are very become very, very withdrawn and avoidant and distant and withdrawn, uh, you know, we get busy.
• 6:53
  SPEAKER_00: And we have this other extreme where we become the pursuers that become very aggressive, they can become, you know, like non-stop, wanting to talk about it, really pushing, pushing, pushing, which are like really trying to avoid and protect the connection.
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_00: And so the goal is to be able to stay in balance, even when we experience different triggers or we experience different conflicts, which is so interesting because even like if we think about the great sages of the world, you know, the people, the people that said, like you have reached enlightenment.
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_00: Really, I feel like that is the definition of what it means to be enlightened when you are not completely thrown off balance when you have a difficult situation, difficult conflict with another person, right?
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_00: So the goal is to be able to, even if you get thrown off balance, to be able to maybe sway on the balance beam slightly and then get right back onto the balance beam for both the withdrawal and pursuer.
• 7:53
  SPEAKER_00: And this is what I like about the reconnection form so much in this eight-step process is that even if you're a withdrawal and you do this on your own, you know, the withdrawal can do this process on their own and become an engaged withdrawal and come back closer to the balance, to the balance beam.
• 8:15
  SPEAKER_00: And a pursuer can do this on their own and it can soften a pursuer and allow them to create that safety for the other person in the conflict.
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_00: So that's what I really love about this process because it gives us the ability for both people involved in the conflict, no matter what role you take, to really become much more balanced in their own personal experience.
• 8:37
  SPEAKER_00: So they can get to the goal, which is to come back into balance and have a conversation.
• 8:43
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, exactly.
• 8:45
  SPEAKER_00: And I I I like I like that you think.
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_00: When you watch me speak, I see, I see you thoroughly enjoying.
• 8:56
  SPEAKER_01: I I do because it is exactly right.
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_01: And that's the interesting part is that when you have an opportunity to actually do the form on your own, you come to the conversation, like you said, a little bit more balanced, but you have already articulated your emotions, you already uh touched your emotions, you already organized your emotions.
• 9:17
  SPEAKER_01: So even to do it second time with the other person is next to you, it'll be a lot more easier.
• 9:23
  SPEAKER_01: You know, like it's easier.
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_00: A lot easier, yeah.
• 9:25
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's a lot easier.
• 9:27
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, because you are no longer overwhelmed by these emotions.
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 9:33
  SPEAKER_01: That's I mean, we we talk about it like uh Lisa Feldman-Barrett.
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_01: You know, she talks about how we have to make emotions as granular as possible, like as specific as possible.
• 9:45
  SPEAKER_01: And when we have an opportunity to do that, it becomes less, you know, scary for us to talk about these emotions.
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_00: It decreases intensity, yeah.
• 9:57
  SPEAKER_00: Right, they're just not as intense, so it's easier to say them out loud.
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and you know, John Balbee's actually said that under every conflict, there's alien, unacceptable, and fearful emotion.
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_01: Strange.
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you know, it's strange.
• 10:12
  SPEAKER_01: It's strange.
• 10:12
  SPEAKER_01: It's like an alien.
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_01: It's an alien, right?
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_01: It's strange, it's uncomfortable.
• 10:21
  SPEAKER_01: It's so uh unfamiliar.
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_01: So when you do the form by yourself, it becomes familiar so your brain, your amygdala, doesn't go into this panic mode and so like, oh my god, I'm gonna die, you know, if I if I share my emotions, or even if I articulate these emotions.
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_01: So absolutely, definitely.
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_00: That's so great.
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_00: No, I think that it's very important to also understand that you don't when the other person is not able to respond, right?
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_00: When you just don't have that ability, even have a conversation.
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_00: Oftentimes, you know, even like parents and children, where parents passed away and children feel very unresolved in the situations that they've experienced, they can do this form to help create that space for the emotions that they've experienced, even though they may not have the opportunity to share what they're struggling with, you know, with the person that they originally had the conflict with, but they have still the way to create space and really feel heard and validated and seen.
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, exactly.
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_01: And it's it's it's always surprises me, even myself who have, you know, I've done so many different forms and gone through so many and teaching all this process.
• 11:38
  SPEAKER_01: I still get off.
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_01: Like my mom had a disconnection a couple of days ago, and I was so hurt, like I was like on the floor bleeding.
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_00: And when I tried to not physically, for those of you who listen to it, she wasn't actually on the floor bleeding, but it was like a metaphor to what you were experiencing.
• 12:00
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, it was so like the comment she said, um, it was very difficult for me to keep my balance.
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I got off that balance beam for sure.
• 12:12
  SPEAKER_01: And I I actually like, you know, I don't I give up.
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I'm not gonna do my form with her.
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_01: But but over days, I mean, I could feel like my motivation depletes, you know, my whole energy depletes because I'm disconnected from the most important, like a very important person in my life.
• 12:32
  SPEAKER_01: And sometimes we don't even recognize how these disconnections impact our well-being.
• 12:39
  SPEAKER_01: It really does create a very, very um negative uh impact on us.
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_01: You know, we can't sleep, we can't really work, we can't focus, and then we start to think like, well, what is it?
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, right, and we never even think about it well because we're disconnected.
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, definitely.
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_00: Well, so this is great.
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_00: That brings up what we're gonna be talking about next, which is what we want to do is we're gonna take, we talk so much about business, and business is and your teams and the dynamics in the workplace and what that looks like, and how you can really use that process to help your relationships.
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_00: But we're gonna take a step back and make this uh podcast a bit more personal.
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_00: So um, Dr.
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_00: Lola and I are going to go through actually the form and share something personal that happened with our life.
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_00: And we're going to go through each of the steps.
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and we have remember eight steps in the reconnection form.
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_00: And now this is something that you can do on your own.
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_00: And we're just gonna demonstrate what it looks like to do it on your own.
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_00: So, Dr.
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_00: Lola, you're gonna go first.
• 13:47
  SPEAKER_00: You just so beautifully shared what happened with your mom.
• 13:51
  SPEAKER_00: Let's start with box one, and you can actually take that example if you'd like, since it's a personal example that you just experienced.
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_00: And remember in box one, it for those of you who are listening, you can follow along with us.
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_00: If you have the EMC journal, go ahead and grab your journal.
• 14:06
  SPEAKER_00: If you have just the form, or if you don't have either of the tools, you can grab a piece of paper and we're just going to follow along and go ahead and write down exactly what you're experiencing in your personal life.
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so we can get used to and get comfortable getting very clear with what's going on with ourselves.
• 14:25
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so Dr.
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_00: Lola, why don't you share what started the conflict?
• 14:29
  SPEAKER_00: And remember, in box one, the question is what is the trigger?
• 14:33
  SPEAKER_00: It could be words, facial expression, tone of voice, action, or decision.
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_00: Or you can kind of share uh a little bit about the story.
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, I'll give you a little bit of background, right?
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, okay, perfect.
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_01: So my mom and my dad are 88, as you know, and they're getting old.
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_01: So I moved to Florida to take care of them a little bit to make sure that they're not alone, so I can take them to doctors.
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_01: And uh my husband Jack, your dad, is your father, is still in California, okay.
• 15:05
  SPEAKER_01: And I've been here one year now in Florida, and so my mom is getting very stressed that we are, you know, separated.
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, we are living in two different places and houses, and she feels like a uh fault that we have to, you know, be in this uh situation, and so her comment is what kind of wife are you leaving your husband in California all by himself with uh uh you know uh being alone there, and so that really triggered me.
• 15:42
  SPEAKER_01: And so be and I was like yes, yeah.
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_01: That's so that was really triggered.
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_01: So the words and the tone of voice triggered me.
• 15:51
  SPEAKER_00: So good.
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_00: So if you were to do this on your own, for those of you listening, you're going to mark down words and tone of voice, and you're going to write down, like in this example, Dr.
• 16:01
  SPEAKER_00: Lola shared, her mother said, What kind of wife are you?
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_00: Um living in Florida and kind of leaving your husband there.
• 16:10
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 16:10
  SPEAKER_00: So that was number one.
• 16:13
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, exactly.
• 16:13
  SPEAKER_01: And for her, she gets triggered that I'm alone here and that the Jack is in California alone.
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_01: That is very difficult.
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_00: Well, we're just gonna stay with you.
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 16:25
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, okay.
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_00: What we really wanna focus on here is if someone's alone and they have to do this form on their own.
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_00: This is what we we're going there.
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_00: Obviously, the form has two parts.
• 16:39
  SPEAKER_00: And just to clarify, for those of you watching or listening, it is a process that you do with another person, yes.
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_00: And as well, this is a tool, I like to say self-regulating tool.
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, it helps us regulate what's going on with us.
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_00: Is there an opportunity to also help ourselves and then guess kind of what the other person is experiencing before the person is available and ready for this kind of conversation?
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, of course, we can do that side.
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_00: But the very first thing is to help ourselves slow down and kind of you know help bring us back to balance.
• 17:17
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 17:19
  SPEAKER_00: So that was box one.
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_00: Go ahead and write your box one if you're experiencing that as you hear us talk about it.
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_00: Very important to identify.
• 17:28
  SPEAKER_00: And sometimes, this is another thing that is good to know.
• 17:33
  SPEAKER_00: You could say one thing was part of the conflict.
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_00: And then, like as you go through the form, if you think back and you're like, actually, that wasn't it, it was something else.
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_00: That can happen as well because we're really finding clarity.
• 17:46
  SPEAKER_00: You know, we're getting really like this is like a discovery part of us.
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_00: We get to understand what is it that really upset or hurt us, okay?
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, and I I have to say, uh I'm very lucky that my mom and I we're both pre surs.
• 18:00
  SPEAKER_01: So we are we are good, we are open always to talk, and that is the that is very uh good for us, yes.
• 18:09
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, okay, number two, box number two.
• 18:15
  SPEAKER_01: Box number two sensitivities, yeah.
• 18:17
  SPEAKER_01: The raw spot sensitivities.
• 18:19
  SPEAKER_01: So I mark number eight, which is show disapproval.
• 18:23
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, and number 11, being judged as not good enough, and number 15, someone close to me is being like aggressive.
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_01: Because the tone of voice was like elevated at that moment.
• 18:37
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_00: So as you think about the sensitivities, if you don't have a list, there are 16 sensitivities, okay, that we experience.
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_00: And these 16 sensitivities can be can vary depending on the conflict, but oftentimes we will see similar sensitivities being hurt and you know hit in the different conflicts because we have those same patterns.
• 19:03
  SPEAKER_00: So that's good to know about yourself.
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_00: Like, for example, I typically feel like not valued, you know.
• 19:09
  SPEAKER_00: Number two, feeling uh not not feeling valued.
• 19:12
  SPEAKER_00: That's a sensitivity for me.
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 19:15
  SPEAKER_00: So you can mark down, go ahead and mark down the sensitivities that you're experiencing.
• 19:20
  SPEAKER_00: Mom, can you read those all the sensitivities to us?
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_01: Sure.
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_01: Number one, being excluded or rejected.
• 19:27
  SPEAKER_01: Number two, not being valued.
• 19:30
  SPEAKER_01: Number three, have an ambition that other people don't believe or have interest in it.
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_01: Number four, not acknowledging the point you're making.
• 19:39
  SPEAKER_01: Number five, someone turns away from you.
• 19:42
  SPEAKER_01: Number six, criticizing or making demeaning comments.
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_01: Number seven, feelings not valid.
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_01: Number eight, show of disapproval.
• 19:51
  SPEAKER_01: Number nine, someone dislikes you.
• 19:54
  SPEAKER_01: Number ten, communicating your needs and getting ignored.
• 19:57
  SPEAKER_01: Number eleven, being judged as not good enough.
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_01: Number twelve, someone is trying to change who you are.
• 20:04
  SPEAKER_01: Number thirteen, someone is telling you you don't deserve something.
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_01: Number fourteen, making demeaning comments, number fifteen, being aggressive or intimidating, and number sixteen, ignoring your comments or uh statements or questions.
• 20:22
  SPEAKER_00: So this is not like a list that Dr.
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_00: Lola just made up.
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_00: This is from tell us where this list is from.
• 20:31
  SPEAKER_01: Well, it was re research, right?
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_01: It was research uh identifying the common raw spots that people experience in their relationships at work and in their personal lives.
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 20:43
  SPEAKER_00: So when you hear the phrase you're so sensitive, we all actually are all sensitive.
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_00: We all have different sensitivities.
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_00: We just get to get clear on which sensitivities we experience in that specific conflict.
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so next step next box number three.
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, which is emotion, internal experience, right?
• 21:02
  SPEAKER_01: What happened?
• 21:03
  SPEAKER_01: So on my surface emotions, I felt upset and tense and confused.
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_01: And my softer emotions, I felt hurt, rejected, abandoned, and not valued.
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_01: And my primary emotions, I felt sad and surprised.
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_00: And what about your so that's the three levels.
• 21:23
  SPEAKER_00: So if you're listening or following along, you can write down those three levels.
• 21:27
  SPEAKER_00: You want to get very clear.
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_00: So mark whatever emotions you're experiencing in that conflict.
• 21:33
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes it could be all of them, and that's okay too.
• 21:36
  SPEAKER_00: And oftentimes withdrawers will pick like one or two emotions, you know, and pursuers will pick lots of lots of different emotions.
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_00: So it's okay.
• 21:47
  SPEAKER_00: Even if you feel I don't know, maybe you say it.
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_00: This is something else that really helps me.
• 21:53
  SPEAKER_00: You say it out loud to see how it lands.
• 21:55
  SPEAKER_00: Like I felt, did I feel worried?
• 21:57
  SPEAKER_00: Did I feel unimportant, dismissed?
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: Overwhelmed, embarrassed, like I'm failing.
• 22:03
  SPEAKER_00: So those emotions you can say out loud and see how it feels when it lands.
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_00: If it doesn't feel like it fits, then that's okay too.
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_00: So get very clear.
• 22:13
  SPEAKER_00: We also need to say those emotions out loud, even if we're doing it ourselves.
• 22:17
  SPEAKER_00: That's what I noticed, because we are giving them a voice which diminishes the intensity of the emotion.
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_00: So now uh let's let's keep going.
• 22:30
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 22:30
  SPEAKER_00: So for my same box, yeah.
• 22:33
  SPEAKER_01: In that same box, my image was like somebody threw me over the over the balcony.
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_01: My gosh.
• 22:43
  SPEAKER_00: Well, right now we're laughing.
• 22:46
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 22:46
  SPEAKER_00: But when Dr.
• 22:47
  SPEAKER_00: Lolo is upset in the moment, it's not like funny, obviously.
• 22:51
  SPEAKER_00: It's because it can be that intense.
• 22:54
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_00: So if you can't come up with an image, you can draw one.
• 22:59
  SPEAKER_00: Actually, this is what I had the kids do in the class.
• 23:02
  SPEAKER_00: I did like a box.
• 23:03
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know if you guys could see it, probably not if you're looking, but there's a box, and you can draw the image of what Adelina actually did a phenomenal job.
• 23:14
  SPEAKER_00: She had herself laying down crying and someone was standing over her laughing.
• 23:18
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, yeah.
• 23:21
  SPEAKER_01: So the image, yeah, an image of describing in that moment the feeling.
• 23:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 23:29
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so what did you notice physically?
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, my head was like, you know, like exploding.
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 23:39
  SPEAKER_01: You felt in your head.
• 23:40
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I had it.
• 23:41
  SPEAKER_01: And my yeah, I felt it definitely in my head.
• 23:44
  SPEAKER_01: And uh, my worst fear about myself is I am alone.
• 23:49
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_01: And my worst fear about my mom is that she does not love me.
• 23:56
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 23:57
  SPEAKER_01: And that my worst fear about the relationship is that we will be stuck.
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_00: Good.
• 24:04
  SPEAKER_00: So in that section, that this is all box three, in that section, you have multiple choice for the worst fear, which is really great because that gives us.
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_00: Remember, the multiple choice options are there so that we don't have to be overwhelmed by what we're experiencing.
• 24:20
  SPEAKER_00: This is the organization of the motions that we are going through here.
• 24:24
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and I also want to say that when fear takes over, and this is what um neuroscientist Jak Pink Sub says that when the fear takes over and we feel somehow disconnected in that moment, what we experience, what he calls it, that's a primal panic.
• 24:42
  SPEAKER_01: And that's when we freeze, we fight, or we flee happens in that moment.
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_01: So that's very important also to recognize that the fear is supposed to really take over, right?
• 24:54
  SPEAKER_01: When we're in danger, it's supposed to move us to some action to happening, and that's what happens.
• 25:01
  SPEAKER_01: So it's important to recognize our worst fears because we are slowing down, we're articulating, and we're recognizing what is our fear is.
• 25:10
  SPEAKER_01: So when we go back to reassurance and validation, we go back to that fear.
• 25:17
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's very good.
• 25:19
  SPEAKER_00: That's good.
• 25:20
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, box four and box five.
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_01: Box four, my automatic thoughts were in that moment, I just give up.
• 25:30
  SPEAKER_01: You know, like uh I give up and then I distance myself, even though I'm a pressure, but in that moment I was like so hurt and I was off the beam.
• 25:42
  SPEAKER_01: I was like flying to the moon.
• 25:44
  SPEAKER_00: That's how and actually, this is really interesting.
• 25:47
  SPEAKER_00: A lot of my a lot of times our automatic thoughts, we don't say those automatic thoughts out loud.
• 25:52
  SPEAKER_00: They're thoughts.
• 25:53
  SPEAKER_00: We don't even actually notice them.
• 25:55
  SPEAKER_00: They're so fast, they happen so fast.
• 25:57
  SPEAKER_00: So if you read through the automatic thoughts list on your form, it's gonna show you things like I have to get away, I give up, I don't need you anyway, I don't care, you know, or I have to stop you.
• 26:09
  SPEAKER_00: We don't actually say those things consciously.
• 26:12
  SPEAKER_00: We don't think those things consciously.
• 26:14
  SPEAKER_00: That's why they're called automatic thoughts.
• 26:17
  SPEAKER_00: So something that really helped me understand what my automatic thoughts were was to see what my behaviors were first.
• 26:23
  SPEAKER_00: So I look to my behaviors, what am I doing?
• 26:25
  SPEAKER_00: So if it's like a withdrawal, avoid, distance, if you're getting busy, those are all typically I have to get away.
• 26:33
  SPEAKER_00: Those are withdrawal kind of what automatic thoughts and behaviors.
• 26:37
  SPEAKER_00: If you are blaming, judging, criticizing, those are more pursuer automatic behaviors.
• 26:43
  SPEAKER_00: So you can go to the automatic thoughts and the pursuer, which is like I have to stop you, I'll show you, those sort of thing.
• 26:49
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 26:49
  SPEAKER_01: And we're what we're really trying to do with these behaviors.
• 26:52
  SPEAKER_00: We're actually trying to get the connection back.
• 26:55
  SPEAKER_01: Well, yeah, we're protecting ourselves so we don't get hurt again, but we want to get the connection back.
• 27:00
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, we want to get the connection back.
• 27:01
  SPEAKER_01: So that's why we are moved.
• 27:04
  SPEAKER_01: We uh remember the still face experiment.
• 27:09
  SPEAKER_01: We are getting we're getting fearful that we're getting rejected in that moment.
• 27:13
  SPEAKER_01: Like the the baby's responding to the mother of not responding to her, and so uh we are pushing for connection because we do not know how to reach for connection.
• 27:24
  SPEAKER_01: So we push, we like, ah, you know, like a baby screeching.
• 27:29
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, we are screaming, we are uh saying, you know, I have to stop you.
• 27:34
  SPEAKER_01: How dare you turn away from me, not respond to me, or how dare you reject me or judge me or whatever, whatever the case may be.
• 27:45
  SPEAKER_01: But uh definitely those behaviors demonstrate to you, give you a sense of what your thoughts are for sure.
• 27:53
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so so once that's step one through five.
• 27:56
  SPEAKER_00: Once we move from step one through five, there's steps six, seven, and eight.
• 28:00
  SPEAKER_00: And this is good because even if you don't have someone that can respond to your needs at that moment, it's still really good to identify what you need.
• 28:08
  SPEAKER_00: So, what did you need?
• 28:10
  SPEAKER_00: Step number six.
• 28:11
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, I needed uh my mom to tell me that she cares about me, that my feelings are valid, that I matter, that I'm important, reassure me that um you know I'm not alone, and uh tell me that I'm valued and acknowledge how difficult that was for me when she said, What kind of wife are you?
• 28:33
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and then she loves me.
• 28:36
  SPEAKER_00: And was she able to do that?
• 28:38
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, no problem, exactly.
• 28:41
  SPEAKER_00: That's awesome.
• 28:42
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, and then step seven or eight is how do I feel when I hear that and what can I do next?
• 28:49
  SPEAKER_00: So this is good, this is a good response.
• 28:53
  SPEAKER_00: This is you're supposed to answer once you do hear.
• 28:56
  SPEAKER_00: So I say you can really do steps one through six on your own, and then get really organized with what you're feeling and what you're experiencing in the conflict to then turn around and share that with a person.
• 29:09
  SPEAKER_00: Now, this is really interesting.
• 29:11
  SPEAKER_00: We answered it box by box, but ideally at the end of that, we kind of recap the entire experience, right?
• 29:19
  SPEAKER_00: So we say, I got triggered when, and you're saying what you got triggered by, what my sensitivities were, or my raw spots that got hit were my feelings were my surface softer and primary, or just the softer and primary, and then what I felt my body.
• 29:32
  SPEAKER_00: So you're going through each box, step one through six or one through five, really first, and then step six to really explain in the most effective way what is going on with you.
• 29:44
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 29:44
  SPEAKER_01: And the the box six is very important.
• 29:47
  SPEAKER_01: Well, like some people say, well, the only thing I need is I need reassurance or acknowledge that when the person did that, they they somehow made it difficult for me.
• 29:58
  SPEAKER_01: And uh over and over again, the science and research shows that in the moment when we get that message, we do feel like unimportant, we do feel like the other person doesn't care, we do feel that we're not valued, and it's very important to ask for the assurance on those things too.
• 30:19
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I need to know that you care about me, I need to know that my feelings are valid, I need to know that you, you know, I matter to you, I'm important to you, I'm valued.
• 30:30
  SPEAKER_01: So I always urge people to ask for all of those things.
• 30:34
  SPEAKER_01: That's why we put it in, because they really do create the repair, really true repair.
• 30:39
  SPEAKER_01: Because if you just say, I reassure you're not alone, or I acknowledge that I did it, it's not gonna be enough.
• 30:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's really interesting.
• 30:48
  SPEAKER_00: I was doing, I was teaching or sharing about this to a friend of mine in Maui, and I said to him, Oh, because he was talking about, you know, he was dating this girl and what he's getting.
• 30:58
  SPEAKER_00: He was he was divorced, and then he started dating again and he's dating this girl.
• 31:04
  SPEAKER_00: And she and like he notices just like all these little things that bother him about all these girls that he's been on dates with, and he was saying how, you know, his then we kind of really uncovered what his trigger was, which was not being valued, you know, and then he didn't really realize that um what they were doing was triggering that sensitivity, right?
• 31:27
  SPEAKER_00: So every single time he experienced that with a girl, he would break up with her, you know, and he's like, I just can't find a girl.
• 31:34
  SPEAKER_00: And I was telling, sharing with him this form, and I was we were talking about it, and I said, like, can you imagine having the conversation with a girl and sharing like what was did you even give her the opportunity to hear how it affected you, right?
• 31:48
  SPEAKER_00: And for her to be able to say, like, you matter, you're important to me, I care about you.
• 31:52
  SPEAKER_00: And he said, like, I haven't heard those words in years from anyone, right?
• 31:56
  SPEAKER_01: Right?
• 31:57
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you you mat you you matter to me, I care about your feelings matter, you're important and valued.
• 32:02
  SPEAKER_00: No one has said that to him, right?
• 32:03
  SPEAKER_00: And I said, Can you imagine if that was the conversation that you had?
• 32:07
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, exactly, exactly.
• 32:10
  SPEAKER_01: How for first of all, I just wanted to recognize how sad that is.
• 32:14
  SPEAKER_01: What how sad that he hasn't heard those words in years.
• 32:18
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, yeah, yeah, it is.
• 32:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and how sad it is that we're not even taught to ask for those needs.
• 32:25
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's like oxygen for us.
• 32:28
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's very interesting.
• 32:32
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so that was really interesting to experience, and it's just important to understand.
• 32:37
  SPEAKER_00: We think we don't need that, right?
• 32:39
  SPEAKER_00: Because I think people feel maybe that's desperation, maybe that's soft, you know, maybe that's you know, a girl's thing or whatever makes you weak, but we really do need to hear that.
• 32:49
  SPEAKER_00: We need to hear those reassuring phrases from each other so that we can feel loved and cared for and important in this world and have purpose, you know.
• 32:59
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 32:59
  SPEAKER_01: And and the eye contact, I really, really liked that at the workshop you keep reminding people how important the eye contact is.
• 33:08
  SPEAKER_01: And over and over again, when I do reconnection sessions and I see that people are not looking at each other, uh, and they still give that reassurance, it's not the same thing.
• 33:19
  SPEAKER_01: And we have to do it over again so people can look at each other and give that reassurance.
• 33:25
  SPEAKER_01: Because that's how you pointed out very nicely, that's how the brain rewires.
• 33:29
  SPEAKER_01: That that's what we're doing, is uh creating a correct, a new corrective emotional experience.
• 33:36
  SPEAKER_01: Because the moment when we get triggered, it's not necessarily that the person actually wanted to hurt us, or I mean, I'm sure, I mean, my mom said like I said it like in the moment.
• 33:49
  SPEAKER_01: It's not that I I really think that you are a terrible wife, you know what kind of wife that is.
• 33:54
  SPEAKER_01: I just said it because in that moment I just felt so helpless.
• 33:58
  SPEAKER_01: I feel so scared that somehow it's affecting your marriage if you guys live uh separately, and I'm the fault of it, I am the cause of it, and that I would not be able to live with myself.
• 34:11
  SPEAKER_01: So in that moment, even though it was by accident or or somehow it still hit me, and when we actually go through the process and she reassures me all of those things that I need, it corrects the message.
• 34:27
  SPEAKER_01: And I did that same thing to her, is you know, yeah, I said, like, mom, you're important to me, I care about you.
• 34:33
  SPEAKER_01: It's not your fault that we live like this.
• 34:36
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, I want to reassure you, you didn't do anything wrong, and I love you.
• 34:40
  SPEAKER_01: And that also helped her to relax and and feel safe, that she's not alone in this experience.
• 34:48
  SPEAKER_01: That's amazing.
• 34:50
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 34:51
  SPEAKER_01: What's interesting is that actually you can actually feel.
• 34:55
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I don't know if you physically ever experienced this shift, but I feel a shift in my whole body.
• 35:02
  SPEAKER_01: It's like suddenly I'm on a balance beam again.
• 35:06
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's like a real so much relief.
• 35:08
  SPEAKER_00: So much relief, and you like doo doo doo doo doo, and you got like when you're with someone that you're struggling with, you can like really cut the tension with a knife.
• 35:16
  SPEAKER_00: You know how they say that?
• 35:17
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you can cut the tension in the room, or like the elephant in the room, or like there's all there's tension, you feel it physically, the energy, you know.
• 35:25
  SPEAKER_00: So to experience that shift is very, very real.
• 35:28
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, exactly.
• 35:29
  SPEAKER_01: And then box eight is also so important after when we share the positive emotions.
• 35:35
  SPEAKER_01: Like I felt happy and connected and safer, and I felt important and valued and relieved and stronger, hopeful, optimistic, motivated, not alone, relaxed, refresh, energized, and grateful.
• 35:47
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, look how many positive emotions I experience just from having this conversation.
• 35:54
  SPEAKER_01: And what can I do when I feel this way?
• 35:56
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I can do anything, right?
• 35:58
  SPEAKER_01: I can I can attend, I can respond, I can collaborate, I can do my work, right?
• 36:03
  SPEAKER_00: I can be present.
• 36:05
  SPEAKER_00: So I just want to wheel it back to doing this on our own.
• 36:08
  SPEAKER_00: Like it's yeah, it is really great if you can have this conversation with someone, but I really want to focus on using this tool when you feel alone or you feel like you're in your own struggle, you feel you're stuck, you feel like maybe you have blocks going on, you feel like you're not moving forward.
• 36:22
  SPEAKER_00: This is a very effective way to use this process on your own.
• 36:27
  SPEAKER_00: And then, of course, like Dr.
• 36:28
  SPEAKER_00: Lola was saying, if you have the opportunity to share your experience with someone, or you feel actually you actually feel more empowered and courageous to talk with someone about what you're experiencing, then you can have that conversation.
• 36:42
  SPEAKER_00: And in the meantime, this will continue to help you feel so much more relaxed and relieved with all the situations that you're experiencing in your life.
• 36:50
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 36:51
  SPEAKER_01: And what is the goal?
• 36:53
  SPEAKER_01: Like remember, we talked about the goal is to reduce the time from when you and your team and your, you know, your relationships feel disconnected to when you feel connected, back to connection.
• 37:06
  SPEAKER_01: And uh by doing this process over and over again, you uh you are training yourself, you are learning how to tune into each other, catch those moments, and reconnect very quickly.
• 37:20
  SPEAKER_01: And that's what we want.
• 37:21
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, yeah, yeah.
• 37:24
  SPEAKER_01: No, I just want to say because a connection is protection in our life, it's so important for us.
• 37:31
  SPEAKER_01: It is it is our shelter in our life.
• 37:34
  SPEAKER_01: Protection is our shelter.
• 37:36
  SPEAKER_01: So I want to say that it's so, so important for us to be connected.
• 37:42
  SPEAKER_01: Amazing.
• 37:42
  SPEAKER_01: I love this.
• 37:43
  SPEAKER_00: Well, thank you so much, Dr.
• 37:45
  SPEAKER_00: Lola, and thank you for those of you who are listening and watching.
• 37:49
  SPEAKER_00: Um, if you want more information on the process, go to emcleaders.com.
• 37:54
  SPEAKER_00: You can follow us on TikTok, Instagram, Facebook, LinkedIn, YouTube.
• 37:59
  SPEAKER_00: We're all over social media, repeating this over and over again so we get it in your head and you can live it and breathe it, learn it and love it and change your life because of it.
• 38:09
  SPEAKER_00: Um, my name is Paulina, and this is Dr.
• 38:11
  SPEAKER_00: Lola Gershfeld, my amazing mother.
• 38:13
  SPEAKER_00: This is the Leader in You podcast brought to you by EMC Leaders.
• 38:16
  SPEAKER_00: Anything else you want to add?
• 38:18
  SPEAKER_00: Well, thank you so much for your enthusiasm.
• 38:24
  SPEAKER_01: And uh and for my your amazing your amazing daughter.
• 38:27
  SPEAKER_01: So thank you so much.
• 38:28
  SPEAKER_01: I love it.
• 38:29
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, of course.
• 38:30
  SPEAKER_00: And you have a wonderful rest of your week.
• 38:31
  SPEAKER_00: We'll see you next week.
• 38:32
  SPEAKER_00: Bye! Bye.
• 38:37
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you everyone for listening.
• 38:39
  SPEAKER_01: It's a joy to share these podcasts with you.
• 38:42
  SPEAKER_01: Be sure to check out our previous podcast and subscribe to join us at our next podcast of the Leader in You, brought to you by EMC Leaders, taking care of the teams you care about.
• 38:57
  SPEAKER_01: Until then, be well and be focused on your relationships.
• 39:02
  SPEAKER_01: We'll see you soon.