Latest / The Prompt / Ep. 583 | From SEO to GEO: Winning digital visibility in the AI-first era

Transcript

Ep. 583 | From SEO to GEO: Winning digital visibility in the AI-first era · The Prompt

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  This is on base your one stop shop for solving your most
• 0:04
  pressing B2B go to market challenges.
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  Each week, host Chris Moody and Paul Gibson talk to sales and
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  marketing leaders to get you in depth insights and creative
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  strategies to set your revenue teams up for success.
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  Hey everyone, welcome back to the home Based podcast.
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  I'm yours, Chris Moody, and today I'm very.
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  Excited. To be joined by Andrea
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  Westenberg. And we're going to talk about
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  the new roles of digital visibility.
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  Andrea, welcome to the show and thanks for joining us.
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  Thank you for the invitation. It's extremely excited to have
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  kind of like a 2026 KPI met in terms of planning.
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  So that's that's really cool, especially talking about
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  something so interesting as visibility into the AI era.
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  Yeah, it's. Perfect timing, perfect topic.
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  You're going to help me out a lot too.
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  We're all trying to figure out what to make of this before we
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  jump into it. I know we.
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  Talked before we hit record but. We like to.
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  Start with. Asking the question to.
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  Tell us about your. Journey and that could be any
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  way you want to approach. It it could be.
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  Personal and professional, a mix of the.
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  Two. But what led?
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  You to what you're doing today. I feel like I've been part of
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  the digital transformation before you were school, before I
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  knew that was going to be like a digital transformation and the
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  whole part of like with my generation, the way that we grew
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  up with this extremely fast development of technology, you
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  know, I went from not having like having a phone home to
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  basically being surrounded by technology every single day.
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  One of this very interesting things is that I've been in tech
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  in B2B my entire career, almost 20 years now, which sounds a lot
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  rougher than it is. Started with literally PPC
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  implementation. So basically search engine
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  marketing, bidding on specific keywords and now understanding
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  how the PPC environment evolved because that was kind of like
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  the first AI adoption with how Google algorithm and made
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  algorithm is showing ads to specific people to where we are
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  right now in terms of AI and generative engine experience
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  taken over a search engine experience and how digital media
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  is being consumed by not only humans, but also like machines
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  and how can people benefit from those from the specific machine.
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  So I think it's really interesting specifically because
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  when you're in the technology, you don't necessarily see the
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  changes because you change with them.
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  So it's a lot easier to be, you know, a newly new adopter of
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  anything that is coming in from AI right now.
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  AI, but in past, you know, mobile, digital transformation
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  and so on. So it's not as scary to be
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  inside it as it happens then, just like watching it from from
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  an outside and trying to understand what is going on with
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  the industry. Yeah, I I totally agree.
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  You and I have both been in very similar spaces for 20.
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  Years. It's just crazy to say out loud.
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  It goes by so fast. And I, I know you have a
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  journalism background too. And I I think that is really.
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  Helpful because you're used. To finding the story or what to
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  pay attention to. Or what will other people care
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  about? What are the early?
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  Lessons. About visibility data or.
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  Storytelling that you think hold true in today's AI first
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  marketing world. That is so interesting.
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  I actually went to school to become a journalist because I
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  thought that is going to be more into a writing career.
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  Doesn't happen. But said ever since like I
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  started working, there's been, you know, conferences, events,
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  everybody was talking about the same thing.
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  Content is king. So I've been hearing the same
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  thing. Content is king.
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  Content is king for again like 20 years.
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  And now it's really interesting because the idea hasn't changed.
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  Content still is king. It just shifted a bit.
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  What is the type of content that we have to put in on the
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  website? We make sure that people are
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  finding us where we are, right? So this is where kind of like
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  it's still the same lesson. Content is still king, but it
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  really depends on what type of content because you know, we're
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  looking at GPT, we're looking at any other language model that
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  that you want and you can see that they're producing content
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  at a much faster rate than any human can't.
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  Now the conversation becomes, is that content something that is
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  really going to get the attention of our users?
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  Is that content as it is right now?
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  Can we just put it on the website and hope that it's going
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  to convert and convert meaning, you know, it's going to create
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  pipeline, it's going to create at least leads, if not like MQL
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  and SQL want to go like super specific and ensure that the
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  answer is no. But what shifted the
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  conversation is that it's even more interesting and important
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  now for brands to become to bring value, which is kind of
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  like the keyword that we have right now for branding and for
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  digital management. And 20252026, what is the value
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  that we are bringing to to the people that are coming into your
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  website? What AI has done is slightly
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  changed the rules of content a bit because right now we're not
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  only producing content for long form content, a huge blog post
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  that people can read. It actually has to be structured
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  in a way that people can come on on the website, get the
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  information that they want in like 510 seconds and then
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  continue their journey inside your website, hopefully convert.
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  And on top of that, we also have to optimize for these LLMS. So
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  we want to make sure that the content that we are putting on
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  the website again is written in a specific way that makes sense
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  for machine learning. And that means having titles
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  that actually answer questions that are informative.
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  So when like having titles that actually can mimic the way
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  people search on search engines results page, right?
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  Like, for example, what is the what is the to be able to give
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  like like an example that that's obviously like, you know,
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  something very top of funnel. So how does the demand base use
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  intent data? That is actually a good type of
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  blog post. And then you have to give people
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  the information in the first paragraph and then you go into
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  structuring the other information with bullet points.
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  So it's not necessarily about the type of rules are kind of
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  the same. The guidelines and the nuances
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  have changed a bit. But in a nutshell, it's still
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  content is king, bring value and not just volume to the people
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  that you're getting on the website.
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  Yeah, absolutely. And you mentioned.
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  Chat. GPT and perplexity too, and I
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  know that this comes up a bunch on the podcast we hear from.
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  Folks where their CEO? 'S are asking them about.
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  A ISE. OI know there are new acronyms
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  now too. But that's a hot.
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  Button topic I think every executive is thinking about how
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  do we win in this new form of SEO but what are some of the
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  misconceptions you see most often when people.
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  Talk about AISEO. That it can replace strategy if
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  I'm going to like emphasize it in a nutshell.
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  So I mentioned before that you know it can create volume, but
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  it cannot create value so it cannot replace your strategy.
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  It can help you get there. It can maybe we were mentioning
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  bullet points, right, like create an action plan, but it
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  will never replace somebody that actually knows how your people
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  are converting. And apart from that, it also
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  changed a bit how we are looking at website traffic and website
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  data and what are the key indicators for success that we
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  want, that we want to have. Because right now we're not only
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  talking about, you know, we're looking at zero click search,
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  zero click websites. So we're not looking into how
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  many clicks to do. Again, it's the website do we
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  have? We're looking at things like
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  time on page, which is a very good indicator of value because
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  if you're bringing value to your user, it means that they're
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  actually sticking around and reading the whole thing.
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  And as a corollary, there is also scroll depth, right?
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  Like are they looking into the website and consuming the
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  content that you're reading? So it all comes down to the
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  whole like strategy thing. You will never, well, never, I
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  cannot say never as of right now.
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  It does not take over a strategic view of of where a
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  specific company, especially like AB2B company and it's like
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  extremely, you know, Red Ocean where we want to be in the
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  future. So if we're thinking about, you
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  know, because it's November before the podcast, we were
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  talking about 2026 plans, right? It won't take over the way that
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  a strategic view for any sort of department needs to be creative
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  for 2026, right? That still needs to come from a
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  human, but AI can be one of the tools that help us get there.
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  I love that. I'm curious to looking forward
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  kind of trend casting for 12 months.
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  How do you anticipate Google Open AI and Perplexity shaping
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  the new discovery ecosystem in the next year?
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  Because you did talk. About top of funnel and some of
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  the searches that would come up, but how do you think that's
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  going to change over the next 12 months?
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  I can tell you what I'm seeing right now, which it's going to
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  be a big conversation of trust, but also the second point, which
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  I want to like I'm telling you now because maybe we can go back
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  to it is in the more like the e-commerce space.
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  So that's actually being developed and the way that
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  things are evolving right now with the speed, I'm actually
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  expecting the second one to be more to become more ingrained
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  into these models. But let's chat about trust a
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  bits. I can't necessarily quote
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  surveys, but let's just say like the adoption rate, I think it's
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  pretty high, especially in terms of executives that are using any
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  sort of like a model, right? So what I've been seeing is that
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  if people are using them conversationally when they're
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  using, I don't know, chat GPD in a conversational way, the way
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  that the replies end up being more personalized to the user.
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  Along with personalization comes an issue with trust.
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  So we already have kind of like a trust build up between the
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  user, which is an executive let you say like, you know, in a
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  tech company and the LLM model, right?
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  What happens when an executive trusts something they're more
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  likely to buy from that specific recommendation, right?
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  So I'm trying to understand how many people are chatting to
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  perplexity about my specific product.
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  The way that I'm seeing them right now, I'm seeing them as
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  referrals if people don't drop their UTM's, right?
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  So I am able to actually understand how many people and
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  for what topics are actually landing on my website from these
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  types of chats, right? So that is a very interesting
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  way that it's shaping consumer behavior because people, I feel
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  like they're starting to be more prone and buying after having a
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  conversation with ChatGPT now, you know, that opens up a lot of
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  K&O firms because I've been an adopter for tragedy for like 2
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  1/2 years now and I think it's gotten a lot better.
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  But in the past it had a lot of hallucinations and I couldn't
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  necessarily trust, you know, because we're talking about
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  that. I couldn't trust what they were
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  saying. But now the trust is is being
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  built and the less hallucinations and the more
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  tailored the content is, the more prone people are going to
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  be to buy following that referral.
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  So this is 1 the second again, like I started my career in BBC
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  basically. I'm used to like spending money
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  off Google mostly. So I'm really waiting to see how
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  these models are going to monetize not only as a freemium,
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  because right now they're kind of like a freemium, you know,
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  you pay, you get more conversations, you get more
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  messages and so on. I'm also trying to see if
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  they're going to allow some sort of ads, some sort of referral
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  rings and so on. And I feel like chat GPD has
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  started doing that with a Stripe integration.
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  So right now I think people can buy from Etsy directly from from
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  chat GPD. So that is obviously AB to B
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  conversation, but I'm waiting for them to be into the B to B
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  space, right, because that's going to solve, you know, you're
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  like Jira admin and you're looking for your specific
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  products. You don't necessarily know
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  what's going to fit because you have very specific issues that
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  in, you know, you can either start a conversation with a
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  company that is going to immediately try to sell you
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  something and you're only going to have that company's
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  perspective or that as the Rs perspective.
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  Or, or you can start a conversation with Claude and you
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  can after, I don't know, an hour, you can have a plethora or
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  whole plot of options of different companies that might
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  use your might help you with your problem.
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  Right now, what I'm seeing, at least in terms of the referrals
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  that are coming in from ChatGPT and so on, these people are much
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  more likely to convert. I've seen kind of like, if I
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  remember correctly, I think it was kind of like a 3% increase
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  in conversion rates from people who are coming in from LLMS
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  versus people who are coming in from all the other organic
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  channels. And you know, in B2C space, 3%
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  is not a lot. But when you're looking at B2B
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  with a customer value of, you know, 5-10 K or even more, 3% is
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  actually ending up increasing your pipeline with some
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  incremental value that you wouldn't have unless it would
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  come from a conversation. So in a nutshell, conversations
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  that create money. I like that a lot.
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  I've had a few use cases where I've.
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  Gotten close? To that with various.
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  Tools one I was trying to do some video editing.
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  Both of my boys play. Baseball.
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  So I had. Highlights and I wanted to trim
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  a clip, so I was trying to use. AI to say hey of all.
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  The videos in this. Folder create a highlight.
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  Reel and it was like yeah, we I can do that and then it never
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  did and I said actually I need. A tool to do that here are.
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  Three that I recommend would you like to sign up for one of the
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  three and I said sure you know I.
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  I saw a pad. Through signed up and then it
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  still didn't go through and complete the task, so it was not
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  quite the experience I wanted, but I can.
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  Totally. See.
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  The near term scenario of starting a demo or starting a
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  trial directly from the conversation that one might be
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  having, I think that's really interesting and it leads to the
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  next question too. So for.
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  All the leaders. Who want to future?
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  Proof their visibility strategy. And do it as.
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  Quickly as possible, What are the practical first steps?
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  That you recommend. Get your team to update the
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  schema markup. So basically any sort of content
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  updates, any sort of updates that you're doing on the
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  website, just make sure that it's machine proof, right?
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  Not just human proof. So if you're updating a piece of
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  content, if you're updating a page, just make sure that this
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  is going to be included in the update and the schema markup.
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  So the terrestrial or Geo people onto that.
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  Apart from that, I would also say take a look at your voice,
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  which is so hard to measure. We have external tools right now
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  that are giving so many different results, but there's
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  also like the middle. So the middle ground, what I
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  like to see is not necessarily the actual number of where I'm
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  sitting in terms of share of voice, but what is the trend
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  line. So basically use whatever share
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  of voice I had in any of the tools that I used last month and
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  see if it's increasing or decreasing or staying flat.
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  So just take that as a baseline, regardless if you believe that
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  it's, you know, 5% or 15% or if you actually have like a very
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  big company that in your space is becoming bigger.
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  I like that a lot. And you know, we've had episodes
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  on zero click and. The ability to get.
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  AI overviews and information before you ever.
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  Click to a website so this. Is one that comes up a bunch.
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  We talked about it internally too.
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  Websites are. Still extremely important.
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  You just talked about content updates and things we.
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  Should do, but how should? We be thinking about.
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  The role of A. Website in today's customer
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  journey where many folks are using more.
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  AI tools to support their research process.
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  Right. So first I would say what is the
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  purpose of the website and right now it's still kind of like a
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  end to end funnel approach. It's still kind of like a
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  presentation and then discovery consideration and go into
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  conversion. It can, but with what you're
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  saying like with 0 clicks, I feel like it becomes more a
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  conversion path. You should update, you know,
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  because we were talking about content.
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  All this if you update the content following the new rules
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  of Geo, which is EEAT expertise authorities trustworthiness
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  because we were still talking about the trust issue, right?
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  You should have enough hits to your website by coming in maybe
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  from from other points of view it not necessarily only from
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  Google Plus. One thing that I'm not happy
• 16:59
  about, we cannot track AIO, you know, impressions, overview
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  impressions and Google Search Console.
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  So making that not necessarily something that can be tracked
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  directly is hard. So coming back to the point,
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  what is a website? It's more like it should be an
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  instrument for conversion. So I would highly encourage
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  people to do some CRO optimization tests in terms of
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  call to, in terms of CTA's, you know, maybe sticky CTA's to some
• 17:28
  specific pages, heat maps to understand what happens with
• 17:32
  people's interest once they actually land on the web page.
• 17:35
  What are the entry pages were the exit pages again, we chatted
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  about time on page scroll depth, which are really cool indicators
• 17:44
  in terms of interest and how valuable that the website is.
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  And just like don't make the conversion, don't make people
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  spend too much time if they want to convert, right?
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  So I would completely audit at least what types of forms, what
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  happens after people fill in the forms because we're talking
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  about B2B. So we're it's not necessarily
• 18:04
  going to be a plug and play and people who are buying the
• 18:06
  product from the website just make the whole experience as
• 18:10
  feasible, as like easy as possible without headaches,
• 18:14
  without having to fill in all the contact details.
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  Just like have a very good lead scoring model and experiment
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  with any sort of of bottom of the final elements that we might
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  find on the page. And that includes, you know,
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  again, where are you positioning your call to actions?
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  What type of call to actions make more sense?
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  And these types of tests don't necessarily have to take over
• 18:35
  the whole world once a month. If you have enough volume, which
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  means enough traffic, you can experiment more often if you're
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  not necessarily, if you don't have that much traffic, meaning
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  you know 10,000 to 20,000 visitors a month, you're not
• 18:50
  going to have enough volume. So you might not be able to
• 18:52
  replicate as fast as possible, but it's still going to give you
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  any an idea of how the people are behaving on your website.
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  What is the behavior that leads to conversion?
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  Absolutely. And you mentioned experiments
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  and testing, so I want to pull on that one.
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  One more. As you've done experiments with
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  AI driven creative and with optimization, I know you've done
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  optimization probably a billion times based on your background,
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  where are you seeing meaningful performance gains?
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  Can I give you an example from the PPC era?
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  Yes, that'd be perfect. It's very cool.
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  So at a company that I was working on, we had like a lot of
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  volume in terms of not only ad spend, but also like the types
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  of creators that we would put into market.
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  And that sort of novelty is sometimes really hard on the
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  creative team because they cannot iterate so fast that the
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  system allows us. We've been trying, the creative
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  team has experimented with, don't believe it was necessarily
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  my journey right back at that specific time, but it was
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  definitely some sort of AI that would create images, right?
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  So we don't want to go into ad fatigue, which is a completely
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  different conversation, right? You don't want to have ads that
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  are basically looking the same for like 6 months, year or even
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  more. But we also know that you
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  cannot. Again, like ask your creative
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  team to constantly iterate. So what we've been doing is
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  using AI to constantly get us new visuals.
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  It wasn't obviously you have to have the human element because
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  it wasn't a plug and play. But what we found is that
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  specific algorithms specifically for the, the middle one really
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  likes to optimize by freshness of creative.
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  So it was kind of like a low hanging fruit, if you want to
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  call it like that, the fresher creative and the more that you
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  innovate your creative, kind of like, you know, every two weeks,
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  every every month, you would have better results, which means
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  by the end of the day, you would have your dollars spent better
• 20:49
  because the system would prioritize your ad because it
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  was newer, right. So I've learned a lot from this
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  test, not only the actual results, but also it's not a
• 20:59
  one-size-fits-all because we could not replicate this in
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  Google ads for display, for example, right?
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  It's just not how Google AI is working, nor did we replicate
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  enough for LinkedIn, which is a completely different story in
• 21:11
  terms of what creative we have to have.
• 21:13
  So the idea is that we can use this.
• 21:17
  You still have to have a human element, but it's really easy to
• 21:21
  use AI to iterate and to give you faster results than you
• 21:24
  could possibly humanly have. And that's basically another
• 21:28
  conversation that we had in the beginning with content, like AI
• 21:31
  can write an absurd amount of content, You just have to human
• 21:35
  proof it. Absolutely.
• 21:37
  Let's talk about success. So it doesn't necessarily
• 21:39
  necessarily have to be ROI. But you hit on share voice.
• 21:43
  That is a difficult. Metric to track.
• 21:45
  What are the leading indicators that you recommend?
• 21:49
  For dashboards to give. Executives confidence that
• 21:52
  they're starting to get. Ahead of these shifts.
• 21:54
  And not reacting too late. I would say consistent results
• 21:58
  then can be scalable and replicated.
• 22:02
  So if you're seeing, let's just say in my example before you
• 22:05
  know you're seeing a better conversion rate from a specific
• 22:09
  LLM. If you're seeing the the same
• 22:11
  trend for 2-3 months in a row that you might be on to it,
• 22:16
  right. So what I would do then is just
• 22:18
  try to replicate that specific page to another product if
• 22:22
  you're, you know, working for an umbrella company that hosts
• 22:25
  different types of product and see if the customer behavioral
• 22:28
  is the same. So in terms of dashboards, that
• 22:30
  would be one of the metrics to use consistent results no matter
• 22:35
  where the path of the entry path is.
• 22:37
  If you can scale it, if you can replicate it, then it's
• 22:40
  something definitely that is good to have.
• 22:43
  And apart from that, what are the key indicators?
• 22:45
  Again, like I feel like AI is changing a bit where we're
• 22:48
  looking at. We can still look at traffic
• 22:50
  just because again, like we don't have AI overview
• 22:52
  impressions and AI overview except like as a direct metric
• 22:57
  as of right now. That's kind of like something
• 22:59
  that we get to measure through like third parties and so on.
• 23:05
  But it would be something like, you know, direct traffic just to
• 23:07
  understand if you're, how is your brand performing?
• 23:10
  The idea is that if you have AI impressions, AI overview
• 23:14
  impressions, then people know your brand and might just like
• 23:18
  hop on your website without necessarily following the
• 23:20
  referral click right. And all the other things that we
• 23:23
  talked about like time on page. I think it's it's so important
• 23:25
  for for value. Those are great recommendations.
• 23:28
  We have a few. Quick.
• 23:29
  Questions to close. This out today before.
• 23:31
  We run out of time the 1st. You've been around the block in
• 23:35
  tech and I'm always. Curious, how do you?
• 23:37
  Personally, stay current and avoid shiny object syndrome as
• 23:42
  our field. Evolves so fast.
• 23:44
  It has to do what I mentioned before, like scalable and
• 23:46
  measurable. If you can get the same results
• 23:49
  and then you can measure them. If they're you have inconsistent
• 23:52
  results, then it's not something that there's something that
• 23:55
  might be put into the bucket of, hey, it's a new shiny object.
• 23:59
  Apart from that, let's see, I read a lot of case studies from
• 24:03
  similar companies that are more publishable on, I guess LinkedIn
• 24:08
  is becoming an influencer environment, but it's really
• 24:11
  interesting to see what other companies that are in the
• 24:13
  similar boat as we are have done and what we can learn from them.
• 24:18
  Apart from that, yeah, I guess it has to do with the tech stack
• 24:21
  because you cannot always jump on any trend if your marketing
• 24:25
  budget or your tax stack just doesn't support it.
• 24:28
  Awesome. We're going to hit on two of
• 24:30
  those in just a second, so. The Quick Hitters.
• 24:32
  Tech and things you like to read.
• 24:34
  But the first? You can only pick one thing, so
• 24:37
  this can be a quick one. You don't even have to explain
• 24:39
  if you don't want. But what is the single biggest
• 24:44
  challenge and B2B marketing today?
• 24:48
  Attribution. Attribution, that's a good one.
• 24:51
  All right. We we're surveying that one.
• 24:53
  So I I think that's been a challenge for what 202030
• 24:59
  forever years? How many years?
• 25:01
  I can chat about that to no end. I used to work like I've been in
• 25:05
  companies that had a very robust attribution model, proprietary,
• 25:10
  so basically everything was built in house, really cool.
• 25:13
  I still don't believe that we had the best results.
• 25:17
  Like we follow that. So the way that I approach
• 25:20
  attribution, if we have an attribution model is I like to
• 25:23
  do a lot of incrementality tests and a lot of like blackout
• 25:26
  tests. If you have, again, you need to
• 25:28
  have volume, if you have a robust marketing budget, you can
• 25:31
  do that basically just, you know, stop advertising in to
• 25:35
  U.S. states and then measure what happens to all your
• 25:37
  channels there. If everything falls under
• 25:39
  direct, if everything falls under organic, then you might
• 25:42
  not necessarily need to spend all those marketing, those
• 25:44
  marketing dollars because all the other channels might be just
• 25:47
  growing and you're only cannibalizing yourself if you're
• 25:51
  spending that. So I can like attribution is
• 25:55
  really big and there's also the issue with non attribution and
• 26:00
  B2B companies which don't sell directly, which is a huge
• 26:03
  challenge because then you have to do correlations, you have to
• 26:06
  be very creative, which is where you can fit because it's really
• 26:09
  interesting to see like proxy metrics and so on.
• 26:12
  But it's really challenging to do just like shots in the dark,
• 26:15
  especially if you have a very long sales cycle, kind of like,
• 26:19
  you know, 18 months, which is the standard in B2B.
• 26:22
  So it's interesting, it's challenging.
• 26:25
  And even with what was going on right now with AII, think it's
• 26:29
  going to become even more of an issue to have correct
• 26:33
  attribution. But the most important thing is
• 26:35
  to constantly measure it, constantly challenge it and see
• 26:40
  where you're staying. And I just like take the results
• 26:42
  as they are. Basically iterate and iterate,
• 26:45
  iterate, you know, I would say at least twice a year.
• 26:48
  Perfect OK the next few we ask these every single podcast
• 26:52
  episode so they can be fast it can be a lightning round less
• 26:55
  than 30 seconds just go as fast as you want the.
• 26:58
  First, what are your favorite tools or?
• 27:00
  Technology that you're using? It's going to be very simple.
• 27:03
  I like the Google Suite. I like Looker Studio.
• 27:06
  It's extremely friendly. Perfect.
• 27:08
  All right, the next is on. Good.
• 27:09
  Reads. This could be.
• 27:10
  Book Blog. Newsletter podcast video
• 27:13
  doesn't. Matter.
• 27:14
  You talked about some ebooks and and stuff too.
• 27:16
  What are your favorite reads? Right now I am getting my
• 27:20
  informations from some podcasts, generally speaking, whatever I
• 27:23
  can listen to and I am following industry experts who have proven
• 27:28
  results. So if you're going to say like
• 27:31
  influencer marketing on LinkedIn.
• 27:33
  Yeah, I love that. And that's the next question
• 27:35
  too. It's a beautiful segue there.
• 27:36
  Who are the people? That inspire you the most in
• 27:39
  B2B? I'm really following Aleida
• 27:41
  Solis and I hope I pronounced her name correctly.
• 27:45
  She's really big in the SEO space and I really love where
• 27:49
  she's saying. There's also Elena Varna.
• 27:51
  Again, I hope I'm pronouncing their names correctly.
• 27:54
  I just feel like the news and the way that they're presenting
• 27:57
  goes beyond what is a fad and might actually have like very
• 28:01
  informative newsletter. So I subscribe to their
• 28:03
  newsletters. Perfect.
• 28:05
  And we'll make sure we include those in the write up.
• 28:07
  And then the last and most important question of all, how
• 28:10
  can everyone get in touch with you?
• 28:12
  After this podcast. On LinkedIn easiest digital
• 28:16
  native almost. So I'm kind of like, what is the
• 28:19
  sync that chronically LinkedIn Andrea M.
• 28:23
  All right, awesome. Well, thank you so much for your
• 28:26
  time today. It was really, really helpful.
• 28:28
  Thanks for having me. Thanks for joining us for On
• 28:31
  Base. If you enjoyed this episode,
• 28:33
  please be sure to share, rate, review and subscribe on Spotify,
• 28:37
  Apple, YouTube or wherever you get your podcasts.
• 28:40
  This show is brought to you by Demand Base, the only account
• 28:43
  based experience platform built for sales and marketing
• 28:46
  alignment.